Author Topic: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!  (Read 10727 times)

redwood_canyon

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Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« on: May 14, 2019, 11:30:50 AM »
This is a hysterical YouTube video of a Gentleman who talks about finances. He says in one sentence that being frugal to point of not buying lattes is pointless. And in another talks about not eating out with his wife and owning an accord. At least he acknowledges FIRE, but brushes it off. I think he is almost there but in a different perspective. Not quite as frugal as Mustachianism. But i would agree sometimes the latte argument is overused, but it isn't meant to be a game plan, but an example of the right thing to do. I still enjoy the premises in The Millionaire Next Door, the tips are very practical. What are your thoughts?

https://youtu.be/_NgA9dZC5qo

ysette9

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 12:16:29 PM »
Interesting in that I happen to be listening to his interview on the Mad Fientist right now. I didnít watch the video but his point on the podcast is to focus first on getting the big things right (salary, automate investing, etc.) and not worry about the small stuff so much.  I think there is value in thinking about the small stuff to make sure it isnít a death by a thousand paper cuts (as we see in case studies here). On the other hand Iíve seen that in our lives we can save more $ by negotiating hard on our mortgage interest rate when we bought our house, or negotiating starting salary at a new job. Those actions have put more money towards our bottom line than the sum of a latte out every day of the year.

I suspect the value of this type of advice depends on the individual situation. We have to remember that we as humans have limited mental bandwidth to optimize and limited self restraint, so it is best to start with the things that will have the most impact and then move your way down the list. So once housing and transportation and income are optimized, then think about saving $ on the little things. But if you burn out before then, at least you addressed the largest items in the budget.

ixtap

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2019, 12:26:28 PM »
The thing is, the latte factor kind of promises you can keep your lifestyle, just with a couple of tweaks. Most would be better off if they were willing to put some thought into their lifestyle. And I don't just mean financially. The finances are nice in so far as they open up options.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 12:53:27 PM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.

dcheesi

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 01:17:38 PM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.
Why go without? Why not figure out a cheaper (and probably easier) method of getting your caffeine fix? Even a Keurig & K-cups would be cheaper, without sacrificing ease or convenience. Unless it's specifically the fancy dessert "specialty coffee drink" that's the real draw?

FIREstache

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2019, 03:12:32 PM »
I kept seeing that same recommendation about cutting down your $3 daily latte, yet I was getting them for 30 cents at work.  lol  It's like they assumed everyone was buying $3 lattes.  I actually don't know of anyone who did that, but I'm sure there are a minority of people who actually did.

They increased our coffee at work from 20 cents, what it had been for over 10 years, to over a $1, so I finally just took in my own coffee maker.  I take in lunch most of the time also.

Mine is not a caffeine fix.  I drink mostly decaf purely for the taste of coffee.

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 10:45:11 PM »
Is it even possible to get a good (and ethically sourced) latte for $3?

gooki

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 11:12:02 PM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.

$20 a week is $1,000 per year. Or if you follow the 4% rule, thatís $25,000 you donít have to save for retirement.

FiveSigmas

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Malkynn

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 04:20:30 AM »
I kept seeing that same recommendation about cutting down your $3 daily latte, yet I was getting them for 30 cents at work.  lol  It's like they assumed everyone was buying $3 lattes.  I actually don't know of anyone who did that, but I'm sure there are a minority of people who actually did.

They increased our coffee at work from 20 cents, what it had been for over 10 years, to over a $1, so I finally just took in my own coffee maker.  I take in lunch most of the time also.

Mine is not a caffeine fix.  I drink mostly decaf purely for the taste of coffee.

I know of literally thousands and thousands of people who buy expenses coffees daily.

How? Because I was curious and I've asked a lot of baristas if they see the same people every day, and every single barista I've spoken to over the past 20 years has indicated that they serve hundreds of the same people on a daily basis.

I have a few friends who own coffee shops or coffee shop chain franchises, and I took a keen interest into what their client base was, so I started asking and it's just become a point a small talk for years.

So yeah, overpaying for coffee, often multiple times a day is definitely a thing.

DH was one of them until I calculated for him that he was spending more than his entire share of groceries on his stupid Americanos.

That said, it's absurd to generalize it to mean that frugality means you "can't" buy lattes if you want to. That's just silly.
Going out for fancy coffee/tea/Italian soda/whatever is a favourite activity for DH and I, we utilize it as an inexpensive alternative to going out for cocktails or meals.

As people above said, it's never about not spending, it's about understanding the real impact of everything you spend.

It was never about the lattes, it's about the dozens and dozens of latte equivalents and how they all add up very quickly to an absolute hemorrhage of money without actually getting much in return.

JTColton

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 05:01:35 AM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.
Why go without? Why not figure out a cheaper (and probably easier) method of getting your caffeine fix? Even a Keurig & K-cups would be cheaper, without sacrificing ease or convenience. Unless it's specifically the fancy dessert "specialty coffee drink" that's the real draw?

Or instead of spending $3/day on burnt shit water from Starbucks, you could get a nice burr grinder, pour over*, and a 200 degree water kettle so you can have the most optimal brew possible.

* Or a French press or Aeropress etc.

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 10:21:02 AM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.
Why go without? Why not figure out a cheaper (and probably easier) method of getting your caffeine fix? Even a Keurig & K-cups would be cheaper, without sacrificing ease or convenience. Unless it's specifically the fancy dessert "specialty coffee drink" that's the real draw?

Or instead of spending $3/day on burnt shit water from Starbucks, you could get a nice burr grinder, pour over*, and a 200 degree water kettle so you can have the most optimal brew possible.

* Or a French press or Aeropress etc.
Good beans (consumer pricing) will still cost close to $1 for a coffee. And if you're into espresso, machines aren't exactly cheap. You'd need a few years to pay off a decent espresso machine (once things like electricity, water, and maintenance costs are included).

solon

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2019, 10:53:22 AM »
Or instead of spending $3/day on burnt shit water from Starbucks, you could get a nice burr grinder, pour over*, and a 200 degree water kettle so you can have the most optimal brew possible.

* Or a French press or Aeropress etc.

It's funny to hear you say that. A cup of dark roast, drip coffee (nothing in it) from Starbucks is I think, the best coffee experience I've ever had.

But the Folgers brewing in the Mr. Coffee in the waiting room at the tire dealer, that's what I would call burnt shit water.

OtherJen

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2019, 12:02:22 PM »
I kept seeing that same recommendation about cutting down your $3 daily latte, yet I was getting them for 30 cents at work.  lol  It's like they assumed everyone was buying $3 lattes.  I actually don't know of anyone who did that, but I'm sure there are a minority of people who actually did.

Like others here, I know plenty of people who do this, as many workplaces don't offer 30-cent lattes. When I still worked at a university med center, even a cup of plain coffee in the department office was 50 cents. The coffee stand in the hospital had Starbucks prices. Several people in my grad program visited that coffee stand at least daily.

Tuskalusa

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2019, 10:44:03 PM »
I think of his philosophy as ďI will teach you not to go broke.Ē  This is also a good lesson. Lots of folks get in over their heads because they donít manage the basics.

I think it would be hard to be rich (as in FI) with this strategy. But I can also see how this is a good start.  Maybe a good bridge to MMM at a later point. 

PDXTabs

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2019, 11:24:14 PM »
I'm not a Ramit fan, but it is true that big items matter more than small ones. If you can turn shave hundreds of dollars off of your rent or get rid of a car it will matter more than your latte habit.

gooki

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2019, 03:52:23 AM »
I'm not a Ramit fan, but it is true that big items matter more than small ones. If you can turn shave hundreds of dollars off of your rent or get rid of a car it will matter more than your latte habit.

When compared to one off small ones sure. But recurring daily expenses are just as big.

You mention $100 off your rent. A fail coffee habit costs the same $100 a month, so is worth equal consideration.

Malkynn

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2019, 06:45:31 AM »
I'm not a Ramit fan, but it is true that big items matter more than small ones. If you can turn shave hundreds of dollars off of your rent or get rid of a car it will matter more than your latte habit.

I disagree.
A couple can spend A LOT by not paying attention to the "little" day to day indulgences.

Lattes, K cups, buying lunches, brunch, going out to restaurants, mani-pedis (a regular routine for many), monthly hair appointments, expensive groceries and food wastage due to not planning so ordering in with Uber Eats, drinks at the pub after work, decent wine at home, parking fees, cosmetics, gym memberships, subscriptions, dry cleaning, fancy dog food, etc, etc...
I haven't even touched the actual buying of random shit like clothes and home items.

The "little indulgences" that don't really seem like much of significance individually can all add up to thousands in a single month, which is a lot more than the "big ticket items" generally add much much more than buying a bigger home, unless we're talking very HCOL area, and even then, at least a home is a form of forced savings.

I know a lot of upper middle class people who think that only the big ticket items really matter and say things like "life is just SO expensive, we don't have an updated home, we don't drive fancy cars, and we never take fancy vacations, and still, we never have any money left over!"

Meanwhile, they're literally spending so much on essentially nothing, that if they redirected their spending, they could actually afford to update their home, drive nice cars, and take an international vacation annually.

I once sat down with my assistant, who made $22/hr and calculated the opportunity cost of buying her fast-food breakfast and lunch every day and calculated that if she invested it instead and retired at 65, it would add up to something ridiculous like $750K, and I know many many people making a lot more than $22/hr and blowing A LOT more than $15/day on crap.

pachnik

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2019, 07:01:43 AM »
A couple can spend A LOT by not paying attention to the "little" day to day indulgences.

Lattes, K cups, buying lunches, brunch, going out to restaurants, mani-pedis (a regular routine for many), monthly hair appointments, expensive groceries and food wastage due to not planning so ordering in with Uber Eats, drinks at the pub after work, decent wine at home, parking fees, cosmetics, gym memberships, subscriptions, dry cleaning, fancy dog food, etc, etc...
I haven't even touched the actual buying of random shit like clothes and home items.

The "little indulgences" that don't really seem like much of significance individually can all add up to thousands in a single month, which is a lot more than the "big ticket items" generally add much much more than buying a bigger home, unless we're talking very HCOL area, and even then, at least a home is a form of forced savings.

I know a lot of upper middle class people who think that only the big ticket items really matter and say things like "life is just SO expensive, we don't have an updated home, we don't drive fancy cars, and we never take fancy vacations, and still, we never have any money left over!"

Meanwhile, they're literally spending so much on essentially nothing, that if they redirected their spending, they could actually afford to update their home, drive nice cars, and take an international vacation annually.

This was me - except more working class or low-middle - before I found this website 6 years ago.  I bought coffee/newspaper everyday.  Lunch out 2 times a week and the odd snack bought during the work day.  There were other things like this that I can't even remember now "essentially nothing".  And I remember believing that I couldn't afford any international vacations. 

I found MMM via the WaPo article years ago and got started.  Examined and tracked expenses.  Stopped buying crap and didn't even miss it.  Suddenly, I have the money to go on big vacations.  Since then, my husband and I have been to Montreal (ok, not international but on the other side of Canada from us), a cruise to Alaska, a cruise to Hawaii and back and a trip to London and Paris.  Next year, we are going back to Paris and another European city.

Sorry to derail.  I've never read anything by Ramit.

PDXTabs

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2019, 08:58:19 AM »
I'm not a Ramit fan, but it is true that big items matter more than small ones. If you can turn shave hundreds of dollars off of your rent or get rid of a car it will matter more than your latte habit.

You mention $100 off your rent. A fail coffee habit costs the same $100 a month, so is worth equal consideration.

I most certainly did not say "$100." I clearly wrote hundreds. To be specific by living in my neighborhood instead of where I really want to live I save somewhere between 5 and 15 hundred dollars per month. I don't drink lattes, but I'm not afraid of spending money on coffee outside the home once or twice a week with that rent savings. Similarly with the savings of being a one car two bicycle household.

EDITed to add - I wrote that I don't like Ramit, because he does dismiss the little things and the attitude of being frugal. But that doesn't change how math works.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 11:54:14 AM by PDXTabs »

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2019, 12:47:39 AM »
Why go without? Why not figure out a cheaper (and probably easier) method of getting your caffeine fix? Even a Keurig & K-cups would be cheaper, without sacrificing ease or convenience. Unless it's specifically the fancy dessert "specialty coffee drink" that's the real draw?
So first off, as someone with migraines, I can't actually drink coffee. But my coffee drinking friends have mentioned repeatedly that the drinks at starbucks are mostly desserts I spired by the drink of the same name. So I'd assumed that a Latte was not just a Coffee, and had to have something else in it.
$20 a week is $1,000 per year. Or if you follow the 4% rule, thatís $25,000 you donít have to save for retirement.
But this drives closer to my point: I think everyone agrees that there's a threshold of price difference where technically optimal ceases to be practical. If switching to homemade coffee only saved .15 a day, I imagine almost everybody would say it doesn't matter.
Where I think we fail to reach a lot of people, is that this perceived threshold is on a spectrum. A person who spends 40 dollars a day, for example, probably won't see how coffee matters, if a week of coffee is just what they spend before going to work each day.
So for example, my threshold is 30 dollars a week. I won't change my routine for anything less than a 10% reduction in spending, because I am a creature of habit. Luckily the kind of habit where I only spend 300 a week.

gooki

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2019, 02:00:14 AM »
Quote
Where I think we fail to reach a lot of people, is that this perceived threshold is on a spectrum. A person who spends 40 dollars a day, for example, probably won't see how coffee matters, if a week of coffee is just what they spend before going to work each day.

If we continue with the idea that little expenses donít matter, then yes theyíll never see the light. But if you bundle three little unnecessary expenses together and present it as saving 30% of their daily spending, and $3,000 a year saving, or $75,000 less they need to save, it has greater impact.

Either way, Iím happy for everyone to buy $3 coffees. Itís a great source of employment and an effective way to cycle money from the rich to the less wealthy.

Philociraptor

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2019, 07:12:34 AM »
It sounds like you're describing Ramit Sethi? I consider him to be more on the Mustachian side of things than the not. In order to spend freely on the things he really cares about (convenience and sweaters, in his case), he cuts everywhere else. Lives in the same basic apartment for 10+ years, rarely eats out, etc. His whole mantra is "live a rich life", which will be individual to each person. Work on getting the big things right (income, housing, transportation) and the small things simply don't matter.

ysette9

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2019, 10:26:35 AM »
I believe I harped on this above in this thread but Iíll say it again as I think it is worth mentioning.
Ideally we would optimize all of our spending. In reality we all have limited time and mental bandwidth. There is only so much self control to go around. That means that most of us humans donít have the capacity to do it all because something has to give. I think there is a lot of wisdom in focusing first on the biggest items that will result in savings and move down the list until the mental energy runs out. That may mean getting takeout coffee because you want to make sure you regularly floss your teeth and the dirty socks make it off the floor each day, but at least youíve optimized what you are spending on rent and transportation.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2019, 07:51:24 AM »
A new gas station near me has a super Keurig. For $1.86 I've been getting a latte with a shot of decaf espresso.

radram

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2019, 09:09:06 AM »
I think that part of it is this: $3 lattes is 20 dollars a week. My current weekly spend is about 300 dollars. So if I go without coffee for 15 weeks, I've saved one week of spending. The saving doesn't seem worth the effort.
Why go without? Why not figure out a cheaper (and probably easier) method of getting your caffeine fix? Even a Keurig & K-cups would be cheaper, without sacrificing ease or convenience. Unless it's specifically the fancy dessert "specialty coffee drink" that's the real draw?

Or instead of spending $3/day on burnt shit water from Starbucks, you could get a nice burr grinder, pour over*, and a 200 degree water kettle so you can have the most optimal brew possible.

* Or a French press or Aeropress etc.
Good beans (consumer pricing) will still cost close to $1 for a coffee. And if you're into espresso, machines aren't exactly cheap. You'd need a few years to pay off a decent espresso machine (once things like electricity, water, and maintenance costs are included).

I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1


I went to goodwill and found a brand new entry level home espresso maker for $4.00. Remember, I rarely get fancy coffees and never buy espresso. I enjoy using the machine, it takes about 5 minutes, and my family loves making the fancy iced coffee drinks with all the sugary crap. It costs about $0.50 per glass all in with a fancy Starbucks or equivalent bean. True, Starbucks tastes better to them, but either one is an about equal occasional treat for me. In what ended up being a perfect lesson for my daughter, I bought the maker for $4 while my daughter was finishing her $4 coffee sugar dessert she had just bought with a Starbucks gift card she received. 

I think a lot of people can not tell the difference between having something NOW vs. having something else, often 90% or so less, a little later than now. Many think it is being deprived, but I rarely deprive myself. I simply delay my "treat" until I see value in what I buy.

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2019, 11:12:28 AM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil... and not necessarily good either. Oh, and it's highly like to be fake (which to me is a relief):
http://nordiccoffeeculture.com/what-kopi-luwak-is-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/

Here's one place where you can find some good coffee though:
https://www.timwendelboe.no/coffee/
160 NOK for 250g, at 18g per epsresso or brewed coffee (20+ is typical for espresso, but let's be frugal here... 18g gives you a good brewed serving of about 1.5 cups), that's 11.5 NOK per espresso, or 1 Eur 20 / 1 dollar 35 / 1 pound 7 pence.

With those "top 10" brands you don't know what farm the beans even came from, never mind working conditions, processing, etc. (Moreover some of them are actually awful... "Death Wish" comes up a lot, because they claim to have "strong" coffee. It both smells disgusting and tastes disgusting.)

Admittedly most people can't taste the difference. My own choice is to not drink coffee unless its good, so I only occasionally drink very good coffee.


radram

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2019, 08:17:14 AM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil... and not necessarily good either. Oh, and it's highly like to be fake (which to me is a relief):
http://nordiccoffeeculture.com/what-kopi-luwak-is-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/

Here's one place where you can find some good coffee though:
https://www.timwendelboe.no/coffee/
160 NOK for 250g, at 18g per epsresso or brewed coffee (20+ is typical for espresso, but let's be frugal here... 18g gives you a good brewed serving of about 1.5 cups), that's 11.5 NOK per espresso, or 1 Eur 20 / 1 dollar 35 / 1 pound 7 pence.

With those "top 10" brands you don't know what farm the beans even came from, never mind working conditions, processing, etc. (Moreover some of them are actually awful... "Death Wish" comes up a lot, because they claim to have "strong" coffee. It both smells disgusting and tastes disgusting.)

Admittedly most people can't taste the difference. My own choice is to not drink coffee unless its good, so I only occasionally drink very good coffee.

Funny, death wish was one of those prices I quoted :)

I wonder how different it would taste for me. My palate is far from refined in this area. When we were in Ireland, I used a french press for the first time, using a coffee I did not buy and I was unsure what brand it was. I tasted very good. I bought some more and it was not as good, but we still enjoyed it immensely.

That Kopi Luwak reference was really more of a joke. I could not be less interested.

Enjoy your day.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2019, 10:36:21 AM »
The problem with the $3 latte is that we over allocate the savings. I remember going to a car dealership and they were like the car payment difference of $25 was  cutting back on a coffee once a week at Starbucks. If with the wrong assumption that I get Starbucks once a week, it wouldn't be likely that I would actually make the trade-off after the first month.

letsdoit

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2019, 11:19:16 AM »
i spent $1.10 on a bottled water yesterday and felt that same feeling of 'i'm so fancy, look at me everyone, i purchased a drink!'
i still have the bottle

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2019, 08:30:37 PM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often......... hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil...

I'm trying to picture the first drinker of these beans. Was it a prank? Was the guy just a shit eater, and couldn't resist? And afterwards, did he try to make his own so he didn't have to follow those critters around?

So much history; so little time.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2019, 07:46:24 AM »
Something very funny (to me at least). I am reading a book by Howard Schultz, the Starbucks CEO. Amid the self-congratulatory tone of how he saved the company and got the stock price back up by doing public campaigns, he laments over all the lies about $5 cups of coffee, saying a cup of coffee has never been that much. I think he's making a technical reference, not to what we think of, which is every product on the menu, many of which can be $5.

But then he has this part where he meets a city police officer who tells him that even though it costs a lot to go to Starbucks, it makes his day better because of all the horrible things he has to see and deal with every day.

Well, which is it Howard? Is the coffee not $5 a cup, or is it expensive, but worth the cost because it assuages the mental pictures of murder-death-killings?

Wrenchturner

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2019, 10:09:26 AM »
Trigger warning!!!





Instant coffee in some heated milk is a pretty decent latte substitute.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2019, 01:24:31 PM »
Trigger warning!!!





Instant coffee in some heated milk is a pretty decent latte substitute.

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Villanelle

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2019, 01:28:57 PM »
I'm reading this post as I sit in a coffee ship, drinking a $3 hot tea.  Internet is down at my house and I had Shit. To. Do. 

But I've also been "allowing" myself to visit this place more and more.  And I'm 100% okay with that.  We certainly have the money.  And it was a carefully considered decision.  I actually thought about whether it would make me happier.  It does.  I love being here writing.  It was exactly what I needed to get myself back in to the habit of writing, which brings me so much satisfaction and joy. 

Once we receive all the worldly good and get our house fully set up, I may shift this habit back to my house, where I drink my own tea (probably $.25 a cup, if I had to guess, though I've never priced out what I pay for loose leaf tea on a per cup basis).  Or I may keep doing this--drinking  and writing (and occasionally checking some internet sites beyond just writing research) at a coffee shop.

To me, it's about not just mindlessly spending, and not chasing happiness by just buying stuff and hoping it helps.  If someone is has the money and is truly going to be happier with that latte or that larger house or that fancy car, then vaya con dios, my friend.   

brooklynmoney

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2019, 01:55:51 PM »
I get tea with steamed no dairy milk. Sbux charges me like  $3.87 as a latte. So instead I go to Pret and itís a tea at $2.67. Itís  my reward for hauling myself to work through crazy NYC congestion in all weather and not quitting and running away to live off the land somewhere.

Wrenchturner

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2019, 05:55:03 PM »
Trigger warning!!!





Instant coffee in some heated milk is a pretty decent latte substitute.

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have pretty low standards for coffee.  But the instant stuff foams a bit which lets me pretend it's a latte.

FIRE@50

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2019, 02:13:02 PM »
How do they stop the cat from chewing the beans? Or for that matter, how do they get the cat to eat the beans at all? Most animals stay well away from coffee because it is bitter and smells.

EricEng

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2019, 09:10:58 AM »
Had some real good friends that did the $6 Starbucks coffee 2-4 times a day each without fail.  Always on way to and from work, sometimes lunch, and sometimes evening snack.  Conservatively their total is 4 drinks per day (2 each) x $6 x 365 days=$8,760/year.  Don't tell me that doesn't add up.

They were both making each six figures and yet couldn't pay off a $190k house (part kudos for small house, but it was out of necessity because they couldn't afford more).

Aelias

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2019, 10:01:32 AM »
I'm reading this post as I sit in a coffee ship, drinking a $3 hot tea.  Internet is down at my house and I had Shit. To. Do. 

But I've also been "allowing" myself to visit this place more and more.  And I'm 100% okay with that.  We certainly have the money.  And it was a carefully considered decision.  I actually thought about whether it would make me happier.  It does.  I love being here writing.  It was exactly what I needed to get myself back in to the habit of writing, which brings me so much satisfaction and joy. 

. . .

To me, it's about not just mindlessly spending, and not chasing happiness by just buying stuff and hoping it helps.  If someone is has the money and is truly going to be happier with that latte or that larger house or that fancy car, then vaya con dios, my friend.

This is where I am. I live in an area with a bunch of locally owned restaurants and coffee shops I frequent pretty reguarly. In fact, I pay a premium to live in a modestly sized house in a place that has all these options within walking distance.  Why?  Because it's freaking pleasant and I enjoy it.  I enjoy everything about stopping by my favorite coffee shop for a drink and a sandwich.  I enjoy the atmosphere.  I enjoy the people watching.  I enjoy that they use real cups and plates so I'm wasting less.  I enjoy the cool haircuts of the kids that work there.  I enjoy not doing the cooking and washing the dishes myself.  I enjoy the way it encourages me to linger and savor the experience.

I will say I try to avoid Starbucks and other chains in favor of local spots, for a lot of reasons.  Mostly because it feels more utilitarian ("I need some coffee / food and this is the fastest way to get it!") and less nice.

If I were in a place where I was desperate to FIRE asap or needed to max savings, my little coffee shop trips would be first on the chopping block.  But we have a positive and growing net worth, a 50% savings rate, and reasonably good jobs.  Part of what's ultimately going to get me to FIRE is staying content enough to stick with said job for another 8 years or so.  Cutting the food out to zero wouldn't really move the needle on that, but throwing up my hands and saying, "Screw this! I'm done!" because I'm feeling deprived very well might.

So, I probably deserve a facepunch or two.  I'm okay with that. I'll just hold the iced coffee up to my eye to reduce the swelling. :)

ToTheMoon

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2019, 10:44:37 AM »
So, I probably deserve a facepunch or two.  I'm okay with that. I'll just hold the iced coffee up to my eye to reduce the swelling. :)

I have nothing to add, other than to say this comment made my day!

jinga nation

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2019, 01:17:30 PM »
It's funny to hear you say that. A cup of dark roast, drip coffee (nothing in it) from Starbucks is I think, the best coffee experience I've ever had.

But the Folgers brewing in the Mr. Coffee in the waiting room at the tire dealer, that's what I would call burnt shit water.
In all fairness, most people likely don't really like the taste of coffee.
false.
most people don't know the real taste of a good french press.
humans have been brainwashed to believe they need milk/creamer and sugar/sweetener in tea and coffee.
me, myself, and I have got rid of these accoutrements.

@solon every starbucks drip medium/dark roast coffee that i've had is burnt. my 100+ anecdata prove that starbucks can't make a simple good cuppa.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 01:39:43 PM by jinga nation »

dragoncar

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2019, 02:24:23 PM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil... and not necessarily good either. Oh, and it's highly like to be fake (which to me is a relief):
http://nordiccoffeeculture.com/what-kopi-luwak-is-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/

Here's one place where you can find some good coffee though:
https://www.timwendelboe.no/coffee/
160 NOK for 250g, at 18g per epsresso or brewed coffee (20+ is typical for espresso, but let's be frugal here... 18g gives you a good brewed serving of about 1.5 cups), that's 11.5 NOK per espresso, or 1 Eur 20 / 1 dollar 35 / 1 pound 7 pence.

With those "top 10" brands you don't know what farm the beans even came from, never mind working conditions, processing, etc. (Moreover some of them are actually awful... "Death Wish" comes up a lot, because they claim to have "strong" coffee. It both smells disgusting and tastes disgusting.)

Admittedly most people can't taste the difference. My own choice is to not drink coffee unless its good, so I only occasionally drink very good coffee.

I am also extremely cultured in the art of drinking only really good coffee!  But I canít believe you drink that $1/cup swill.  Usually what I do is fly down to Colombia and rent a finca for the week.  Included with the stay is freshly roasted coffee picked right on the same farm.  I canít believe you donít even meet the person who picked your beans! 

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2019, 03:08:30 PM »
Not for nothing, but I make my own coffee at home and don't buy premade avocado toast and I'm on the verge of reserving an entire castle for a vacation with my wife to Ireland for our 10th wedding anniversary in two years.

BDWW

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2019, 02:05:54 PM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil... and not necessarily good either. Oh, and it's highly like to be fake (which to me is a relief):
http://nordiccoffeeculture.com/what-kopi-luwak-is-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/

Here's one place where you can find some good coffee though:
https://www.timwendelboe.no/coffee/
160 NOK for 250g, at 18g per epsresso or brewed coffee (20+ is typical for espresso, but let's be frugal here... 18g gives you a good brewed serving of about 1.5 cups), that's 11.5 NOK per espresso, or 1 Eur 20 / 1 dollar 35 / 1 pound 7 pence.

With those "top 10" brands you don't know what farm the beans even came from, never mind working conditions, processing, etc. (Moreover some of them are actually awful... "Death Wish" comes up a lot, because they claim to have "strong" coffee. It both smells disgusting and tastes disgusting.)

Admittedly most people can't taste the difference. My own choice is to not drink coffee unless its good, so I only occasionally drink very good coffee.

I am also extremely cultured in the art of drinking only really good coffee!  But I canít believe you drink that $1/cup swill.  Usually what I do is fly down to Colombia and rent a finca for the week.  Included with the stay is freshly roasted coffee picked right on the same farm.  I canít believe you donít even meet the person who picked your beans!

You trust someone else to pick your beans for you? You're probably getting the dregs then after all the good stuff is picked over.

dragoncar

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2019, 04:56:38 PM »
I do not buy "good beans" very often. I usually buy grocery store cans, about 2 pounds, for about $4.00 on sale. When you said the beans alone were about $1, that seemed incredibly expensive. So I found a "10 best beans" article and looked up the price on 2 of them. One was $25 and one was $14, both were 2 pounds, free shipping with prime. That's about $0.26 and $0.15 per cup. Can you give me an example of coffee that costs $48 per pound? Can't you get those beans pooped out of a rat for less than that?
https://www.amazon.com/Premium-Kopi-Indonesia-Civets-Arabica/dp/B07817693B/ref=asc_df_B07817693B/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312068890447&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7193386957505099206&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018815&hvtargid=pla-716924841992&ref=&adgrpid=62425923272&th=1
First off, Kopi Luwak is evil... and not necessarily good either. Oh, and it's highly like to be fake (which to me is a relief):
http://nordiccoffeeculture.com/what-kopi-luwak-is-and-why-you-should-avoid-it/

Here's one place where you can find some good coffee though:
https://www.timwendelboe.no/coffee/
160 NOK for 250g, at 18g per epsresso or brewed coffee (20+ is typical for espresso, but let's be frugal here... 18g gives you a good brewed serving of about 1.5 cups), that's 11.5 NOK per espresso, or 1 Eur 20 / 1 dollar 35 / 1 pound 7 pence.

With those "top 10" brands you don't know what farm the beans even came from, never mind working conditions, processing, etc. (Moreover some of them are actually awful... "Death Wish" comes up a lot, because they claim to have "strong" coffee. It both smells disgusting and tastes disgusting.)

Admittedly most people can't taste the difference. My own choice is to not drink coffee unless its good, so I only occasionally drink very good coffee.

I am also extremely cultured in the art of drinking only really good coffee!  But I canít believe you drink that $1/cup swill.  Usually what I do is fly down to Colombia and rent a finca for the week.  Included with the stay is freshly roasted coffee picked right on the same farm.  I canít believe you donít even meet the person who picked your beans!

You trust someone else to pick your beans for you? You're probably getting the dregs then after all the good stuff is picked over.

The trick is to use the beans after they pass through the digestive tract of the person picking them.  That way you get the absolute best beans and the enzymes enhance the flavor.  There's actually a variety of indonesian coffee that uses this approach... I think it's called "kopi manusia"

Cassie

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2019, 06:08:28 PM »
I probably go to Starbucks about twice a year when a good friend suggests it. Fun treat but canít understand spending big bucks on it.

LiveLean

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2019, 10:37:15 AM »
I've always felt fortunate that I grew up in a house where my dad chain-smoked and pounded coffee from the moment he work up. Since I'm disgusted by the smell of both, I've never had coffee.

The stop-buying-designer-coffee argument by financial types never works. It's not the coffee. It's the mentality that if you're so careless in one area of your financial life, you probably have much bigger financial issues. Starbucks is a symptom, not the problem.

pachnik

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Re: Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2019, 11:05:25 AM »
I've always felt fortunate that I grew up in a house where my dad chain-smoked and pounded coffee from the moment he work up. Since I'm disgusted by the smell of both, I've never had coffee.

The stop-buying-designer-coffee argument by financial types never works. It's not the coffee. It's the mentality that if you're so careless in one area of your financial life, you probably have much bigger financial issues. Starbucks is a symptom, not the problem.

I can really relate to the chain-smoking dad.  The sound of my dad clearing his throat in the morning used to wake me up sometimes.  Neither me nor my brother smoked other than as a teenage experiment.  I am really grateful for that since I have always heard it is one of the toughest things to quit.

I do love coffee though but not those mixed coffee drinks so much.  Especially the frappucinos, not even sure what is in them other than sugar?  So expensive too.  But yes, Starbucks is a symptom. 

jengod

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Have as many $3 lattes as you want!
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2019, 01:04:46 PM »
It was never about the lattes, it's about the dozens and dozens of latte equivalents and how they all add up very quickly to an absolute hemorrhage of money without actually getting much in return.

ďLatte equivalentsĒ is a great turn of phrase.

Pete would also say that you need to calculate what your spending on latte equivalents would do over 10 years if instead you put it in a bank to earn interest.

Our latte equivalent is definitely restaurant food.