Author Topic: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache  (Read 30699 times)

whiskeystache89

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« on: July 11, 2016, 09:20:47 AM »
A gun thread on the Internet; what could possibly go wrong? ;)

Like with a work vehicle, guns can quickly cross from utility into wasteful spending. They can be utilized to hunt and provide entertainment and variety to your diet. They can be a few hundred dollars worth of peace of mind if you think that's the best way of protecting yourself. What I wanted to take a few minutes and laugh at is how quickly they can become a spendy pants habit.

I always chuckle at the dissonance of people protecting their homes from burglars by collecting $1000+ worth of highly movable goods that can fenced with minimal or zero paperwork. It's like being afraid of losing your jewelry and responding by replacing it with loose diamonds.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 09:22:50 AM by whiskeystache89 »

ncornilsen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 904
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 09:50:10 AM »
Anything can become a spendypants wasteful habit. Firearms are nowhere near the top of that list. Once purchased, they hold their value fairly well as last forever... unlike a truck, which depreciates like a rock.

And your comparison to loose diamonds is nonsense. A loose diamond held to bear on a burglar isn't going to stop anything. Have you ever sold a gun? Minimal paperwork is not how I'd describe the transaction.

NoStacheOhio

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2143
  • Location: Cleveland
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 10:23:39 AM »
I once heard the AR-15 called "Legos for grown men," because of how many accessories are available. Resale value aside, it seems pretty similar to cars. You can get a basic, solid piece of equipment that does what you need and not much else. Or you can get an Escalade. Or you can get something in between. And you can modify any of them until you're bankrupt.

Spork

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5753
    • Spork In The Eye
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 10:31:22 AM »
And your comparison to loose diamonds is nonsense. A loose diamond held to bear on a burglar isn't going to stop anything. Have you ever sold a gun? Minimal paperwork is not how I'd describe the transaction.

I almost hate to reply because I hate threads that devolve into argument... and this one is likely to do that.  But yes: I just sold several guns about a month ago.  Required paperwork: 0.  We did write up bills of sale just to keep in our files (with names/ID numbers of the buyers) in case something went wrong 20 years from now.  It wasn't required, was just a CYA.

I'm not a gun nut nor am I anti-gun in any way.  We have several in the household.  Most of them are my wife's guns.

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5669
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »
Anything can become a spendypants wasteful habit. Firearms are nowhere near the top of that list. Once purchased, they hold their value fairly well as last forever... unlike a truck, which depreciates like a rock.

And your comparison to loose diamonds is nonsense. A loose diamond held to bear on a burglar isn't going to stop anything. Have you ever sold a gun? Minimal paperwork is not how I'd describe the transaction.
The firearm itself might not loose that much value, but ammo on the other hand? Pretty much the value is shot once it leaves the barrel. Remember, that a responsible owner should be spending time at the range periodically and putting rounds through the firearm as well.

Also, just because something doesn't lose value doesn't mean it gains in value. This has been examined by The Motley Fool and they found that an AR-15 is worth pretty much what you paid for it, which means it's loosing value compared to inflation and you'd be better off putting the money into something else if we are talking investment vehicles.

*insert consumable product*'s value is pretty much shot once it's consumed, though if you reload your own ammunition the spent brass has substantial value.

TheOldestYoungMan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 751
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 10:56:00 AM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.

That said, most gun owners actually go through a different process.

It usually involves getting a rifle to hunt with.  Then a handgun for personal defense.  Then a different handgun because the cost of ammo.  Then another rifle because it was a good deal.  Then a safe because now there's quite a lot of guns in the house.  Then another handgun to fill out the slots in the safe.  Then enough ammo for ten years because of a guy on the radio talking about the ammo shortage.

And then they never get sold.  So it doesn't matter if they held their value or not, it was spent money.

But regardless if you spent the money on brewing equipment or guns or art or anything, as long as you do truly get some enjoyment out of it its probably fine.  And do it in the most economical way you can, like paying cash on really good deals buying used.

I really like the look of certain guns, they appeal aesthetically to me, so I have picked up a few where I could find them in salvage condition.  A little bit of polish and paint and you've got something pretty that, while it won't actually work, you can still hit people with it.

desk_jockey

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 11:05:12 AM »
In moderation a gun hobby is fine for mustachianism; going out on occasion to shoot .22 LR isn’t expensive. I agree however that they can “quickly become a spendy pants habit.”  I’m friends with 3 guys who own north of 50 guns each, but none of these people are frugal in any other part of their lives either.   

Guns are tools.  Just like tools for the house or car, many people own what they would occasionally use and some buy just in case or to have a collection.   

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1117
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 11:17:09 AM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.

That said, most gun owners actually go through a different process.

It usually involves getting a rifle to hunt with.  Then a handgun for personal defense.  Then a different handgun because the cost of ammo.  Then another rifle because it was a good deal.  Then a safe because now there's quite a lot of guns in the house.  Then another handgun to fill out the slots in the safe.  Then enough ammo for ten years because of a guy on the radio talking about the ammo shortage.

And then they never get sold.  So it doesn't matter if they held their value or not, it was spent money.
I'm on both sides of this.  My grandfather "collected" guns, never sold any, hunted maybe once with a few, never fired most.  When he passed, my uncle paid me to sell them for him.  With the profit, I bought a few of the guns, and kept the ammo and the cheaper gun case.  So my grandfather paid a pretty penny for his collection, but mine just required some hours of work, and except for paying for the shooting range, it's not going to cost me a penny for a long time.

Sailor Sam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4213
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Steel Beach
  • Semper...something
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 11:28:04 AM »
My job supplies the gun, the ammo, the range, and encourages me to practice on the clock. Super mustachian!

I do own a handgun, which I don't practice with enough. Mostly because I can't be arsed, and not because I resent the money.

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 11:42:10 AM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

Daleth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1201
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 11:46:29 AM »
Have you ever sold a gun? Minimal paperwork is not how I'd describe the transaction.

Have  you ever sold a gun as a criminal, to a fellow criminal? While I am merely speculating here, not having had that experience, my sense is that "minimal paperwork" is actually an overstatement.

Digital Dogma

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 423
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 12:05:31 PM »
My Mossberg is one of the few things I've purchased in the last decade that is made locally. One of the downsides to purchasing weapons with the thought that you'll recoup the cost later or turn a profit is the looming threat of "assault weapons bans" being enacted in your state which makes resale a hassle. You could be stuck with those guns for a lot longer than you anticipate, and you can only shoot so many of them at the same time so why get more than you can carry? Hoarding weapons never seemed logical to me, but a lot of hobbies appear that way to outsiders.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 12:37:00 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

I know. It's the same way with brewing beer. Many, many dollars into supplies and equipment, and then it goes (litterally) down the drain.  It'd be much more mustachian to stop drinking beer (who really needs beer, anyway?), cuddle up with your NW spreadsheet and bask in true frugal bliss.

Or travel. Some people spend hundreds or even THOUSANDS OF STACHE DOLLARS per year flying around the globe, burning fossil fuels and consuming local resources only to then fly back home on a couch that MOVES THROUGH THE GODDAMNED SKY.  Just because 'they need a break from work' or something silly. Don't they know it'd be much more mustachian to let go of those needs, sit on their front xeriscaped lawn with a glass of beer tap water and enjoy the  nature all around them? 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 12:40:35 PM by Metric Mouse »

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5669
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 12:40:36 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

Or bicycles, or travel, or pets, or children, or homebrewing...

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 12:49:39 PM »
I once heard the AR-15 called "Legos for grown men," because of how many accessories are available. Resale value aside, it seems pretty similar to cars. You can get a basic, solid piece of equipment that does what you need and not much else. Or you can get an Escalade. Or you can get something in between. And you can modify any of them until you're bankrupt.

Cars typically decline in value, simply due to age.  Guns don't do this.  If they are kept in good working condition, they are as stable as anything else you could physically buy as an investment.  And I know several people who do buy guns & ammo as an off-market investment.  If yo think about what ammo actually is; gunpowder, lead, brass for the casings, ecetera; it becomes pretty obvious why a well stored case of ammo keeps up with inflation.  It's basically a commodities play with a predefined alternative use.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2016, 12:52:36 PM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.


I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.  I'd like to know how you think that this can be done, and then I'd like to see you try it.

andy85

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1073
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Louisville, KY
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2016, 01:07:40 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

Or bicycles, or travel, or pets, or children, or homebrewing...
or tools, or kayaking, or hiking/camping equipment...

everybody knows that hobbies aren't allowed.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2016, 01:14:37 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

Or bicycles, or travel, or pets, or children, or homebrewing...
or tools, or kayaking, or hiking/camping equipment...

everybody knows that hobbies aren't allowed.

The OP is new... perhaps they didn't know?

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2602
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2016, 01:34:51 PM »
Cars typically decline in value, simply due to age.  Guns don't do this.  If they are kept in good working condition, they are as stable as anything else you could physically buy as an investment.  And I know several people who do buy guns & ammo as an off-market investment.  If yo think about what ammo actually is; gunpowder, lead, brass for the casings, ecetera; it becomes pretty obvious why a well stored case of ammo keeps up with inflation.  It's basically a commodities play with a predefined alternative use.
Except for the fact that the vast majority of them don't appreciate in value either, as per the article I linked to already earlier in the thread. The rule of thumb with most investments is that you want something that is not still being manufactured if you want it to appreciate in the value. If you buy a firearm now for $1000 and turn around and sell it ten years from now for $1000 you actually lost money to inflation even if it subjectively was worth the same.

I know some folks who own arsenals for the manliness points, and others who have some genuinely old guns that will be worth quite a bit in another decade or two.  It's when the former group talks about their "investment" in modern AR variants that I scoff.  It's like having a fleet of 2015 Nissans that you're calling your car collection and holding onto as "investments."  It's the same logic behind some comic book collections.  After 20 years of holding onto mint condition X-Men titles from the early 1990s I realized I'd have to lug them around and keep them perfect for another 40 years before they were actually worth something more than face value.  The catch is many of the titles I owned were extremely popular and millions of copies are still in circulation making them effectively worthless for the foreseeable future.  If someone wants to own a bunch of firearms for their utility, or as a sport hobby, or just because they look pretty I'm not too concerned (assuming they can afford the hobby).  It's when they pretend they're worth more than they are or will likely be in the near future that I think their argument falls apart.

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5669
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2016, 01:36:56 PM »
Cars typically decline in value, simply due to age.  Guns don't do this.  If they are kept in good working condition, they are as stable as anything else you could physically buy as an investment.  And I know several people who do buy guns & ammo as an off-market investment.  If yo think about what ammo actually is; gunpowder, lead, brass for the casings, ecetera; it becomes pretty obvious why a well stored case of ammo keeps up with inflation.  It's basically a commodities play with a predefined alternative use.
Except for the fact that the vast majority of them don't appreciate in value either, as per the article I linked to already earlier in the thread. The rule of thumb with most investments is that you want something that is not still being manufactured if you want it to appreciate in the value. If you buy a firearm now for $1000 and turn around and sell it ten years from now for $1000 you actually lost money to inflation even if it subjectively was worth the same.

I know some folks who own arsenals for the manliness points, and others who have some genuinely old guns that will be worth quite a bit in another decade or two.  It's when the former group talks about their "investment" in modern AR variants that I scoff.  It's like having a fleet of 2015 Nissans that you're calling your car collection and holding onto as "investments."  It's the same logic behind some comic book collections.  After 20 years of holding onto mint condition X-Men titles from the early 1990s I realized I'd have to lug them around and keep them perfect for another 40 years before they were actually worth something more than face value.  The catch is many of the titles I owned were extremely popular and millions of copies are still in circulation making them effectively worthless for the foreseeable future.  If someone wants to own a bunch of firearms for their utility, or as a sport hobby, or just because they look pretty I'm not too concerned (assuming they can afford the hobby).  It's when they pretend they're worth more than they are or will likely be in the near future that I think their argument falls apart.

It's possible to get lucky with market timing (i.e. if you sold AR15's after Sandy Hook, you'd make a massive profit) - but in that case many people don't want to sell because they think they won't be able to buy them anymore.

BDWW

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Location: MT
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2016, 01:47:35 PM »
Quote
I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.
Where are you from?
Quote
I'd like to know how you think that this can be done
Most states don't require anything on private party sales. And often people don't bother in the ones that do.
Quote
and then I'd like to see you try it.

Done many times over.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2016, 02:12:18 PM »
Cars typically decline in value, simply due to age.  Guns don't do this.  If they are kept in good working condition, they are as stable as anything else you could physically buy as an investment.  And I know several people who do buy guns & ammo as an off-market investment.  If yo think about what ammo actually is; gunpowder, lead, brass for the casings, ecetera; it becomes pretty obvious why a well stored case of ammo keeps up with inflation.  It's basically a commodities play with a predefined alternative use.
Except for the fact that the vast majority of them don't appreciate in value either, as per the article I linked to already earlier in the thread. The rule of thumb with most investments is that you want something that is not still being manufactured if you want it to appreciate in the value. If you buy a firearm now for $1000 and turn around and sell it ten years from now for $1000 you actually lost money to inflation even if it subjectively was worth the same.

The typical gun will keep up with inflation, because it's just as valuable 10 years later.  The exception to this rule is whenever there is an improvement in the manufacturing methods of very similar weapons.  Granted, just keeping up with inflation doesn't make it a good investment, but it does make it comparable to the current rates for short term to mid term bonds.  With all of the other advantages to owning the gun.

However, I agree that there is the collector factor here too, old guns in perfect condition; particularly those that are no longer available new, tend to do better.  The same conditions apply to gold & silver coins; they all have their base value, but some have a numismatic value too.  It's difficult to predict which guns will have a collectors' value in the future, but it's a fair bet that a $1000 into quality guns today will sell for about $1000 in 2016 purchasing power in the future.  There aren't many hobbies for which the gear keeps it's value in the same way.

notactiveanymore

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 212
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 03:43:09 PM »
Quote
I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.
Where are you from?
Quote
I'd like to know how you think that this can be done
Most states don't require anything on private party sales. And often people don't bother in the ones that do.
Quote
and then I'd like to see you try it.

Done many times over.

I'm not a gun person, but you can buy them off my local facebook sales group for all cash and zero paperwork. Legally. It's only illegal if the seller has provable knowledge that the buyer is a felon. Even with FB's recent change in policy which does not allow these kind of private sale gun advertisements, my local swap shop group has a workaround: put the gun on top of some other item and claim the sale is for the non-gun item.

So yeah, Missouri checking in: zero paperwork necessary for a private sale of a weapon or ammo.

Dyskolos

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 04:13:00 PM »
As with most things there is a spectrum.
Should someone decide that they have a need for a firearm (or more than one), it is easy enough to satisfy those needs for a reasonable cost.
It is also very easy for someone add additional "requirements" on to those basic needs. This is why $3,000 1911's and $60,000 trucks exist.

The point about ammunition is excellent. Shooting is a very efficient way to turn money in to noise and kinetic energy. Reloading can help to reduce the cost per round, but there is a limit to how low you can go. This, and paying for range time are the primary reasons I don't shoot as much as I used to.





GatorNation

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2016, 08:03:28 PM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.


I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.  I'd like to know how you think that this can be done, and then I'd like to see you try it.

In the United States, most states allow private sale of guns without a background check or paper work.  I've done it many times, and it's done thousands of times a week in this country.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2016, 08:05:47 PM »
Quote
I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.
Where are you from?


Kentucky
Quote
Quote
I'd like to know how you think that this can be done
Most states don't require anything on private party sales. And often people don't bother in the ones that do.


A gun show doesn't count as a private party sale inside the venue.  You'd have to do that outside.

Quote
Quote
and then I'd like to see you try it.

Done many times over.

Inside a gun show?  I've seen guys try this and get arrested.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2016, 08:06:40 PM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.


I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.  I'd like to know how you think that this can be done, and then I'd like to see you try it.

In the United States, most states allow private sale of guns without a background check or paper work.  I've done it many times, and it's done thousands of times a week in this country.

Again, Inside of a gun show venue?

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2016, 08:11:27 PM »
In the United States, most states allow private sale of guns without a background check or paper work.  I've done it many times, and it's done thousands of times a week in this country.

And rightly so.

BDWW

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Location: MT
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2016, 09:03:47 PM »
Quote
I'm calling BS on the claim of no paper trail.
Where are you from?


Kentucky
Quote
Quote
I'd like to know how you think that this can be done
Most states don't require anything on private party sales. And often people don't bother in the ones that do.


A gun show doesn't count as a private party sale inside the venue.  You'd have to do that outside.

Quote
Quote
and then I'd like to see you try it.

Done many times over.

Inside a gun show?  I've seen guys try this and get arrested.

Yep  that's the basis of the whole "gun show loophole"  People here often bring guns to the show to sell to dealers or other patrons. In the later, no paperwork required.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2016, 10:23:38 PM »

Yep  that's the basis of the whole "gun show loophole"  People here often bring guns to the show to sell to dealers or other patrons. In the later, no paperwork required.

If that is the gun show loophole, it's not much of a loophole in Kentucky, which is a pretty damned pro-gun state.  If you are inside the venue, then sales must either be to or from a licensed dealer, or facilitated by one; otherwise you have to leave the venue.  Granted, that's not difficult to do either, but in my experience, patrons are more than a little wary of a guy standing near the entrance trying to sell a shotgun. 

vern

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2016, 01:43:00 AM »
"Unqualified activity, of whatever kind, leads at last to bankruptcy."  Goethe

Fishindude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2135
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2016, 05:29:27 AM »
In my state you can buy, sell or trade guns with any private individual without a paper trail, same in many other states.
Don't get why they call this a "gun show loophole" because you damn sure don't need to go to a gun show to do it.  At the gun shows I attend, private sellers are generally only a small percentage of those selling, most are dealers and standard paperwork is required.

If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.
As a long time gun nut, collector, I am calling B.S. on this statement however.   If it was that darned easy, we'd all be gun dealers, all gun dealers would be rich, and there would be a lot more gun stores.   Fact is, it's harder now than ever to get great deals on this stuff due to the access to information available to the average buyer / seller. 
Are there some deals to be had?   Sure, but the above statement is a huge exaggeration.   The best deals I've run across are guys in a pinch for quick money, going through a divorce, etc.

ooeei

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1143
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2016, 07:13:47 AM »
If you know your trade and keep up with the trends, you can go into a gun show with a couple hundred dollars and walk out with a couple thousand dollars a few hours later.  No paper trail, no record that you were ever an owner of any of the guns.

I would be very impressed to see anything close to this happen.  No paper trail means you're doing person to person sales on both ends with no dealers involved (unless you don't consider the background check a paper trail), and those actually don't happen very often at gun shows I've ever been to.

Much less do they happen where you can mark something up 1000% and sell it an hour or two later in the same location.  Usually the people I've seen trying to sell their personal stuff are asking for more $ than it's worth (as is the case with sales of pretty much any personal stuff), and people buying person-person want crazy good deals.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14185
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2016, 07:17:36 AM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

It's certainly possible for a hunting rifle to be mustachian.  A 30-06 pretty much pays for itself after your first moose.

acroy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1702
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Dallas TX
    • SWAMI
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2016, 08:43:21 AM »
As with most things there is a spectrum.
^^ very true
I have pals with the one gun they are convinced they need 'for safety'
Others who have no interest whatsover
Others who just love to shoot! shoot shoot shoot, guns guns guns!
Others, like my dad, who loves the gun not so much for shooting itself, but because it's a very clever and precisely made machine, which he can tinker with and optimize. A side hobby of his is old military 'Mauser' rifles, of various manufacture. He has several 100+yr old Swedish Mauser rifles, iron sights, which make a 1" group at 200yds. Impressive for something he purchased for $80 at a show and spent a few hours working on.

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2602
  • Location: South Korea
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2016, 11:20:20 AM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

It's certainly possible for a hunting rifle to be mustachian.  A 30-06 pretty much pays for itself after your first moose.

One of my coworkers may not be mustachian, but he's definitely economical with his gun collection.  He only buys from pawn shops, and for guns that he's grown tired of he'll either sell back to a pawn shop or a private party so his overall costs for his hobby aren't terribly high.  Every now and then he'll hit a home run if the shop owner doesn't realize he's holding onto something very valuable.  He was also kicked out of a pawn shop once for outbidding the shop owner with a selling customer right at the register knowing he was still getting a good deal.  At the end of our deployment together a few years ago we were offered a customized 1911 with our unit logo on the slide and grips.  For a 1911 it was a good price, but he surmised several young soldiers would jump on it and have to pawn it later to make their shiny new car payments and he'd pick up one of theirs for half price.

Mississippi Mudstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2162
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Danielsville, GA
    • A Riving Home - Ramblings of a Recusant Woodworker
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2016, 01:44:21 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

It's certainly possible for a hunting rifle to be mustachian.  A 30-06 pretty much pays for itself after your first moose.

Indeed. I have two guns: a .30-06 and a 12 ga. pump. Both were presents from my parents when I was in high school. I don't use the 12 ga. much any more, but the .30-06 has paid for itself many times over in venison.

But I am admittedly a member of a tiny minority of hunters who actually reap a tangible financial benefit from a firearm. I only hunt family land, or friends' land by permission. Most hunters I know pay hundreds to thousands of dollars per year on hunting leases. I only buy a $35 in-state tag for whitetail deer. Many of my friends have spent thousands of dollars on out-of-state permits, guides, lodging, and traveling costs to bag a bull elk or some sub-species of turkey that is slightly different from the variety that we have at home. I don't "scout" an area, I just sit in a likely spot and wait. If a deer walks into view, super. If not, oh well. Most hunters spend hundreds of dollars each year on traveling to scout for deer, feeders and salt licks to attract them, motion-sensing cameras to photograph them, etc. When I shoot a deer, I process it myself, from start to finish. Most hunters spend upwards of $4-5/lb to have it processed into ground venison, cube steak, sausage, etc.

I have basically nothing in common with most hunters. For them it's a hobby, and they only care about how the size and quantity of the bony protrusions of their deer's head. (Not that's there's anything wrong with that.) I just want meat. It's like comparing a landscaper to a farmer just because they both grow plants.

gimp

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2348
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2016, 02:04:45 PM »
I want a 1911, but I don't want to spend that much money on a toy.

I have enough expensive hobbies...

Also, I live in California, so it's mildly annoying to own anything here. Can't carry it either in my county (no concealed carry permits unless you bribe the sheriff, sorry, contribute to his campaign).

Evgenia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 162
  • Location: California
    • Evgenia Got FI
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2016, 02:25:44 PM »
I grew up in a veritable arsenal in Michigan and learned to shoot at quite young an age. And I completely agree with the OP, as my dad is living proof of this (so much so that I wrote a whole blog post about it).

There's no need to read the entire post (which is about reasons my dad does not have a paid off house and should). Here's the part about the guns (of course, it's not only the guns, but they -- to say nothing of the ammunition -- are a major cost):

Dad also likes guns and has an arsenal of them, though he hardly ever goes to a range to actually shoot them. He does not hunt and never has. He also buys ammunition for various guns. These, too, are some of the difference between a paid off house and not. Dad tells me each of his guns cost between $100-$900, which adds up to several thousand dollars ($5,500-$7,500 to the best of my calculations).

Each gun is at least one extra mortgage payment, some of them several.


This is because my dad's total monthly house payment is $450/month, so upwards of $7k in guns (I later learned I missed some hidden away on my last gun count through the house at Christmas, so $7k is low) is more than a year's worth of house and property tax payments.

dycker1978

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 768
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2016, 04:36:13 PM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

It's certainly possible for a hunting rifle to be mustachian.  A 30-06 pretty much pays for itself after your first moose.
A 30-06 for hunting, sure.  How about those who choose one of the more exotic, but useless guns.  And you would have to butcher on your own.  It is between 4-5 a lb here.  I can buy meat for that.

Justin1911

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2016, 04:47:00 PM »
This thread hits close to home for me. On one side I know I'm frugal and have good saving/investing habits, but I also have a bigger gun and knife collection than I need. Several are inherited from my late grandfather or gifts from my dad, but there are also a few that I've purchased or traded for over the years. I look at it this way: Its my hobby and I love it. I'm ok with having a little money tied up in it. I'm willing to work a few more months at my job before I RE.

Fishindude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2135
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2016, 06:24:28 PM »
I can walk ou my back door, hunt my own place without buying a license, shoot butcher and process it myself for almost no cost.   Of course ..... I did have to buy the farm 😜 so can't claim its too mustachian when that gets factored in.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2016, 06:46:12 PM »
This thread hits close to home for me. On one side I know I'm frugal and have good saving/investing habits, but I also have a bigger gun and knife collection than I need. Several are inherited from my late grandfather or gifts from my dad, but there are also a few that I've purchased or traded for over the years. I look at it this way: Its my hobby and I love it. I'm ok with having a little money tied up in it. I'm willing to work a few more months at my job before I RE.

Perhaps it's time to start re-gifting those classic weapons?

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2016, 09:16:42 PM »
This thread hits close to home for me. On one side I know I'm frugal and have good saving/investing habits, but I also have a bigger gun and knife collection than I need. Several are inherited from my late grandfather or gifts from my dad, but there are also a few that I've purchased or traded for over the years. I look at it this way: Its my hobby and I love it. I'm ok with having a little money tied up in it. I'm willing to work a few more months at my job before I RE.

Perhaps it's time to start re-gifting those classic weapons?

I'd take them off your hands and give them a good home so you can sleep at night. :D

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 14185
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2016, 06:10:13 AM »
This forum is funny.  We have many people that will do anything almost to save a penny, but yet when they talk about spending several hundred dollars, or more on guns, that is some how mustachian.

It's certainly possible for a hunting rifle to be mustachian.  A 30-06 pretty much pays for itself after your first moose.
A 30-06 for hunting, sure.  How about those who choose one of the more exotic, but useless guns.  And you would have to butcher on your own.  It is between 4-5 a lb here.  I can buy meat for that.

The only mustachian argument to be made for guns would be buying an inexpensive one and using it a lot for hunting (not trophy hunting, real hunting).  Otherwise you're not using it as a tool, and probably just wasting money.

mak1277

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2016, 06:57:25 AM »
But I am admittedly a member of a tiny minority of hunters who actually reap a tangible financial benefit from a firearm. I only hunt family land, or friends' land by permission. Most hunters I know pay hundreds to thousands of dollars per year on hunting leases. I only buy a $35 in-state tag for whitetail deer. Many of my friends have spent thousands of dollars on out-of-state permits, guides, lodging, and traveling costs to bag a bull elk or some sub-species of turkey that is slightly different from the variety that we have at home. I don't "scout" an area, I just sit in a likely spot and wait. If a deer walks into view, super. If not, oh well. Most hunters spend hundreds of dollars each year on traveling to scout for deer, feeders and salt licks to attract them, motion-sensing cameras to photograph them, etc. When I shoot a deer, I process it myself, from start to finish. Most hunters spend upwards of $4-5/lb to have it processed into ground venison, cube steak, sausage, etc.

I have basically nothing in common with most hunters. For them it's a hobby, and they only care about how the size and quantity of the bony protrusions of their deer's head. (Not that's there's anything wrong with that.) I just want meat. It's like comparing a landscaper to a farmer just because they both grow plants.

Wouldn't you admit though, that only a "tiny minority" of hunters have access to family lands on which to hunt?  I've heard/read that the biggest reason people quit hunting is a lack of access.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2016, 07:05:15 AM »
Public land hunting is still an option. I use a mix of public and private land access when I hunt.  Still, you're probably right; even as smaller percentage of the population engages in the sport, it does seem to be getting more crowded in the United States, hunting wise.

Metric Mouse

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5299
  • FU @ 22. F.I.R.E before 23
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2016, 07:08:43 AM »
Also, bought one of these Austrian beauties a few months ago, because I'm rich and have terrible self-control. Complete drain on the stache - I'll be back to work in no time, no doubt. :D

*not my pic - far too lazy to upload a photo of it myself. The new p225-a1; night sights, Sig SRT, G10 grips... love it.





Sadly, it was lost in a tragic boating accident soon after...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 11:44:41 AM by Metric Mouse »

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2016, 07:46:53 AM »
Anything can become a spendypants wasteful habit. Firearms are nowhere near the top of that list. Once purchased, they hold their value fairly well as last forever... unlike a truck, which depreciates like a rock.

And your comparison to loose diamonds is nonsense. A loose diamond held to bear on a burglar isn't going to stop anything. Have you ever sold a gun? Minimal paperwork is not how I'd describe the transaction.

Depends on which state you live in. In some places you can legally buy it from a random guy and then later sell it to some random guy. No paperwork.

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Guns: A Second Amendment Drain on Your Stache
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2016, 07:53:20 AM »
It's like having a fleet of 2015 Nissans that you're calling your car collection and holding onto as "investments."  It's the same logic behind some comic book collections. 

Depends on which Nissans. The Versa? Not so much. The GTR - yes if it is a low mile museum piece.