Author Topic: Little 18 year old children  (Read 14000 times)

lr

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Little 18 year old children
« on: August 03, 2012, 05:39:59 PM »
Just got this from Vanguard, and was totally floored. 

Quote
When you look at your 18-year-old, you probably still see the beautiful baby you first brought home. But after reaching that milestone birthday, your baby is legally considered an adult, and you no longer have the automatic right to access your child's medical or financial information.

That fact can be alarming, especially if your child is getting ready to head off to college or preparing to travel the world. However, documents such as a financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney, and health information authorization can help you access the information you might need to help your child in an emergency....

"By knowing what's happening with your child, think about the hours of angst you'll save," Ms. O'Hara said.

Really?  We've reached a point where parents have so little confidence in their child-raising ability that they need to control grown men and women's financial, medical, and educational lives with a routine durable power of attorney? 

Wow, Vanguard.

Edit to add link:  https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/article/power-attorney-rev-072012?linkLocation=insights_overview

Grigory

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 03:01:35 PM »
It's just the next stage of "helicopter parenting." I'm kind of curious (in that watching-from-sidelines sort of way) how much further this obsessive parenting trend will go. Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...

Kriegsspiel

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 06:09:38 PM »
Who else would an 18 year old put down if they want to give someone power of attorney?

grantmeaname

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 06:53:41 PM »
This isn't an appeal to 18-year-olds, this is an appeal to their parents to shorten the lease.

darkelenchus

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 07:04:27 PM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C?

They do send really angry emails. I've got a few. :-)

Nords

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 10:55:45 PM »
Really?  We've reached a point where parents have so little confidence in their child-raising ability that they need to control grown men and women's financial, medical, and educational lives with a routine durable power of attorney? 
Been there, done that, it wasn't pretty.  I'm no fan of Vanguard, but I can understand their reasoning on this one.

You know how the military jokes that you'll have to sign over your first-born child if you lose or damage a valuable piece of equipment?  When ours decided to get her NROTC scholarship, I literally had to sign our first-born over to the Navy because she was still a 17-year-old minor.

But then she turned 18.  When she had a problem with Tricare, I couldn't help out because she was no longer considered to be a minor.  (Her college is in a different Tricare region with a different Tricare contractor, so these were two totally different databases.)  You can tell a teen all day long how to choose a physician for their health plan, but they don't really pay attention to that until they're sick.  She certainly learned to appreciate the wisdom of paying attention the next time, but it would've been nice to be able to lend her a helping hand.  She's a good kid and deserves help when she needs it.

When she asked questions about transferring her Roth IRA to a different custodian, we either had to talk it through on the phone or it had to wait until she was home to go through the process line-by-line instead of me calling up my Fidelity rep.  She thought of a lot of good questions during the process, too, but it wasn't "real" to her until she actually had to handle the money.  Imagine if Fidelity had been coaching her on her choices instead of her "trusted financial advisor".  She's one of the very few people at her college with an IRA, and I include many of the "adult" residents & staff in that characterization.

When she ended up in the emergency room with a huge case of hives, luckily we were already there for the college's Families Weekend.  But neither one of us was allowed to accompany her into the ER ward.  However the college resident was allowed to accompany her, and she turned the job over to one of us.  Our daughter was seriously freaked out (she's almost never sick) and the ER was considering tranking her to get the situation under control.  Joke all you want about helicopter parents, but having one of us on the scene avoided their administering a medication to which she's allergic.

When she deployed on the USS LOUISIANA, she was out of touch for a month.  (It was the first time in her life she'd been without the Internet for longer than a few days.)  If any of her bill-payment arrangements had gone bad, or if her car had been vandalized, or any of her stuff had been stolen from her off-campus apartment... we wouldn't be able to help.  It'd all be up to her roommates.  None of them have any POA authority either.

So, yeah, maybe Vanguard's learned from their own customer's experiences that a POA is a good idea at times.  It's just a permission that can be revoked by the grantor at any time, not like the guardian/conservator process.  It comes in handy for singletons who haven't yet acquired a life partner to cover for them.

You save those guardian/conservator options for your OWN parents...

The nice thing about our daughter turning 18 is that we no longer receive her academic reports.  (Not our problem, either-- the Navy's paying for that.)  It's nice because now we're mentors & coaches instead of authority figures.  She can turn to us for sympathy about a crappy test grade, but one of her motivations to study is knowing how her NROTC lieutenant would feel about her slacking off or cutting class.

fecklesslayabout

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 03:09:14 AM »
I'm 24 years old, and granted my mother power of attorney two years ago when I moved to China (note the "abroad" mention in the original vanguard post). There are a lot of minor issues (like when my American debit card got accidentally flagged as stolen) that can turn into a kafkaesque nightmare when you're trying to resolve them from the other side of the planet. It makes way more sense for my mom to have power of attorney than it does for me to fly for 30 hours round trip to deal with some sort of tiny problem that she can resolve in two minutes the next time she goes to drop off a check.

cdttmm

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 06:52:12 AM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...

Yes. Yes they will. I've experienced both of these.

Richard3

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 09:30:49 AM »
I'm 32 and I probably should give my parents a POA again (they had one the first time I travelled overseas). I might actually choose my best friend given I live the other side of the world, but someone should be able to cover for you.

Yeah Vanguard sound like they're selling it to helicopter parents, but the actual idea is sound.

TLV

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 10:30:00 AM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C?

On a related note: when were planning to get married while in college my wife (then fiancée) tried to sell her apartment lease - craigslist ads, etc. Every single inquiry she got was from parents, none from students.

madhadron

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2012, 10:42:51 PM »
Helicopter, sure, but actually sensible advice. I currently hold durable power of attorney for both my parents and my little sister. They all hold the same for each of the other three. I also held it for my grandparents while they were alive. When I turned 18 we filed paperwork to make me my little sister's guardian in case something happened to my parents. Add to that medical power of attorney, living wills, and wills. We've each got a folder of documents that basically let any one of us go in and deal with anything that comes up with the family.

IANAL, but everyone of legal age in your trusted circle should have the following four documents for everyone else: durable power of attorney, medical power of attorney, living will, and will. (Note the word 'trusted' above.) That way any of you can go in and deal with any issue that comes up.

Gerard

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2012, 01:54:37 PM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...
Yes. Yes they will. I've experienced both of these.
+1. Some North American universities are considering building parent space into their residences, as it's the only way to stop Mom from sleeping on her daughter's floor for the first six weeks of the first semester.

prosaic

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 07:31:21 PM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...

Yes. I had a 60 yo mother call me to complain that her THIRTY year old daughter (a nontraditional college student) got an A- instead of an A.

So, yes. And it's nothing new. Just more intense with this generation.

Sparky

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 06:59:17 AM »
I actually have linked my mother to all my personal banking, insurance and anything else in my life. It's actually really nice to have somebody else in a pinch that can do something for you if need be. I consider it to be one of the smartest decisions I've ever made. My job makes doing banking nearly impossible as I have exactly one 1/2 day per month off during business hours and I'm usually overseas on my 'days' off....

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2012, 01:21:29 PM »

When she deployed on the USS LOUISIANA, she was out of touch for a month.  (It was the first time in her life she'd been without the Internet for longer than a few days.)  If any of her bill-payment arrangements had gone bad, or if her car had been vandalized, or any of her stuff had been stolen from her off-campus apartment... we wouldn't be able to help.  It'd all be up to her roommates.  None of them have any POA authority either.


I think a POA is a good idea for ANYONE who is away for months or years at a time.  I don't think it is required for most university kids, who might learn some lessons from not having their parents fix their every mistake.

grantmeaname

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2012, 01:56:10 PM »
POA isn't about fixing mistakes, it's about legal standing for things. Not being a helicopter parent is what gives kids the chance to fix their own mistakes.

And "university kids" are, on the whole, adults and capable of being held responsible for their own decisions. It's like Ben Curmudgeon over at Bad Money Advice is always saying: People never take more responsibility than you ask them to, but eroding what you hold people responsible for is still counterproductive because if you give people license to act like children, they will.

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2012, 02:01:18 PM »
POA isn't about fixing mistakes, it's about legal standing for things. Not being a helicopter parent is what gives kids the chance to fix their own mistakes.

And "university kids" are, on the whole, adults and capable of being held responsible for their own decisions. It's like Ben Curmudgeon over at Bad Money Advice is always saying: People never take more responsibility than you ask them to, but eroding what you hold people responsible for is still counterproductive because if you give people license to act like children, they will.

Oh, I completely agree that everyone should have one.  I don't think that they should be used though, unless the person can't physically do anything themselves, because of illness or injury (aside from the people travelling abroad who have a loved one handling their month to month stuff).

grantmeaname

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2012, 02:03:44 PM »
Isn't that the whole purpose of them? I suppose a hovering parent could use it as an authorization to run the bank accounts...

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2012, 02:10:29 PM »
I think that is EXACTLY what the original link implies.  For that use, they are crazy!  I also happen to think that helicopter parenting is also bad, but that's another thread...

twinge

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2012, 08:58:27 AM »
As a person who works with a lot of youth/young adults across the full SES spectrum, I have to say in my experience I have found the media conception of helicopter parenting to be  overblown.   I have worked  directly with maybe 3000 young adults in the past 10 or so years-- regularly providing evaluations that matter for their futures.  I very rarely even encounter their parents--let alone experience any kind of undue intervention from them.  The times when I have are often related to a medical emergency or severe mental health issue and usually the parent involvement seems to me to be very reasonable.  The only occasion where there was significant ongoing parental intervention was in the case of an issue with a 19 year old with a developing mental illness--and we were all very grateful that the parent had power of attorney and could provide us with context about the situation.  Given that people are single a lot longer, medical red-tape in the US has skyrocketed,  and that there is far more international travel than in the past--I don't think it's helicopter parenting to be at least thinking about whether your child may need someone to have POA. 

The main difference I have noticed is that with cell phones etc. there seems to be more regular communication between kids and their parents than I had as a college student, but I don't necessarily see that as a particular feature of helicopter parenting more that people generally seem to have more of this kind of ongoing low level communication with each other than in the past due to technology.

I'm sure this varies with different institutions, but I think instances of "helicopter parenting" may be one of those things that the media tends to hype about because it fits with a popular narrative about parenting and youth and allows people to feel self-righteous that they were either more independent than these young adults or parent in a more "hands-off" way, but I have yet to see systematic evidence -- nor compelling personal experiences-- that really align with the narrative that US parents have become more "helicoptering" of young adults than in previous decades.  Does anyone know of anything beyond media anecdotes?

Kitty

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 05:13:00 AM »
Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...

Yes. I had a 60 yo mother call me to complain that her THIRTY year old daughter (a nontraditional college student) got an A- instead of an A.

So, yes. And it's nothing new. Just more intense with this generation.

Indeed. When I explained to a student that he got zero on an exam because he didn't actually answer the question (but rather regurgitated unrelated content), his dad asked whether I could give him marks for trying. Sorry, dad, but no E for Effort in my class...

igthebold

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2012, 08:39:07 AM »
And "university kids" are, on the whole, adults and capable of being held responsible for their own decisions. It's like Ben Curmudgeon over at Bad Money Advice is always saying: People never take more responsibility than you ask them to, but eroding what you hold people responsible for is still counterproductive because if you give people license to act like children, they will.

This is the key. Combine that with the fact that people over-romanticize childhood and forget that womanhood and manhood are things you grow into, not suddenly acquire at age 18 (or 22), and you can understand a lot of what happens, including what follows (CC debt and the rest).

As a parent, it's tough to make the call of how much to hold my kids responsible as they get older, but that doesn't absolve me from the responsibility of doing it.

TLV

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2012, 11:12:45 AM »
Sorry, dad, but no E for Effort in my class...

My university gave E grades. There was no F, so E for effort meant "put forth more effort when you retake the class because you just failed."

MM

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2012, 12:24:38 PM »
This thread reminds me of an old posting at The Daily WTF about bad job interviews.  Read the second one.

http://us.thedailywtf.com/Articles/Interview_by_Proxy.aspx

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2012, 02:22:04 PM »
This thread reminds me of an old posting at The Daily WTF about bad job interviews.  Read the second one.

http://us.thedailywtf.com/Articles/Interview_by_Proxy.aspx

Oh dear!  Talk about putting lipstick on a pig!

thrifted

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2012, 03:59:48 PM »
Just got this from Vanguard, and was totally floored. 

Quote
When you look at your 18-year-old, you probably still see the beautiful baby you first brought home. But after reaching that milestone birthday, your baby is legally considered an adult, and you no longer have the automatic right to access your child's medical or financial information.

That fact can be alarming, especially if your child is getting ready to head off to college or preparing to travel the world. However, documents such as a financial power of attorney, health care power of attorney, and health information authorization can help you access the information you might need to help your child in an emergency....

"By knowing what's happening with your child, think about the hours of angst you'll save," Ms. O'Hara said.

Really?  We've reached a point where parents have so little confidence in their child-raising ability that they need to control grown men and women's financial, medical, and educational lives with a routine durable power of attorney? 

Wow, Vanguard.

Edit to add link:  https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/article/power-attorney-rev-072012?linkLocation=insights_overview

i never heard of the term helicopter parenting.  this was so funny.  thanks for sharing!!

SpendyMcSpend

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 06:40:20 PM »
Really?  We've reached a point where parents have so little confidence in their child-raising ability that they need to control grown men and women's financial, medical, and educational lives with a routine durable power of attorney? 
Been there, done that, it wasn't pretty.  I'm no fan of Vanguard, but I can understand their reasoning on this one.

You know how the military jokes that you'll have to sign over your first-born child if you lose or damage a valuable piece of equipment?  When ours decided to get her NROTC scholarship, I literally had to sign our first-born over to the Navy because she was still a 17-year-old minor.

But then she turned 18.  When she had a problem with Tricare, I couldn't help out because she was no longer considered to be a minor.  (Her college is in a different Tricare region with a different Tricare contractor, so these were two totally different databases.)  You can tell a teen all day long how to choose a physician for their health plan, but they don't really pay attention to that until they're sick.  She certainly learned to appreciate the wisdom of paying attention the next time, but it would've been nice to be able to lend her a helping hand.  She's a good kid and deserves help when she needs it.

When she asked questions about transferring her Roth IRA to a different custodian, we either had to talk it through on the phone or it had to wait until she was home to go through the process line-by-line instead of me calling up my Fidelity rep.  She thought of a lot of good questions during the process, too, but it wasn't "real" to her until she actually had to handle the money.  Imagine if Fidelity had been coaching her on her choices instead of her "trusted financial advisor".  She's one of the very few people at her college with an IRA, and I include many of the "adult" residents & staff in that characterization.


I don't see why an 18 year old can't do this by herself.

Nords

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2012, 09:19:03 PM »
I don't see why an 18 year old can't do this by herself.
Oh, she learned, and she did fine, but there's no reason to cast her onto the upselling tender mercies of the Fidelity customer service rep.  It gave her great comfort to be able to consult with an expert, just like it does with many of the posters on this board.

I'll point out that when your 18-year-old is in the hospital emergency room at 2 AM, that is not a good time for a medical functionary to be waving HIPAA paperwork in your face just because she celebrated a milestone birthday a couple weeks ago.  Let's just say that I was able to finesse the situation with my charming personality.

It's getting better.  Now that she's 20 years old, she asks my advice on helping her friends set up their Roth IRAs. 

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Re: Little 18 year old children
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2012, 08:41:22 PM »
It's just the next stage of "helicopter parenting." I'm kind of curious (in that watching-from-sidelines sort of way) how much further this obsessive parenting trend will go. Will helicopter parents show up and yell at college professors in person the same way they yelled at school teachers when their precious little spawn got a C? Hold their hand as they go to job interviews? Heh...

My wife is a university professor for overage children.  Their parents do, indeed, helicopter in and shout.

She doesn't listen. :)