The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Syonyk on March 11, 2015, 07:06:16 PM
-
If the truck sits more than 48h, they'll tow it.
So they've pretty much told me, "Well, it's nice that you bicycle to work, but move your truck regularly, or we'll tow it." I assume "Move it 20 feet" probably doesn't count, because HOA.
Should be about a gallon of diesel a day.
I cannot wait until I don't have to deal with HOAs. This is utterly absurd.
-
Is your truck under 24 hour surveillance? If not how could they possibly know you didn't drive it and park in the same spot?
HOAs are bullshit.
-
What do the bylaws specifically state? It can't possibly be "your vehicle must be moved and absent from the property for at least x hours per day."
-
Don't you have a garage you can put it in or perhaps talk your boss into letting you park it at work so you can bike there?
Also that law seems rather illegal. What happens if say you're disabled and only need to leave your house once a week or every few weeks?
-
WTF? Your residents can't even enjoy a three-day weekend without being compelled to drive? It might be worth running for the board to get a rule like this changed. I'm guessing this is an HOA-owned lot or garage and they don't want residents using it as a storage area for non-operating cars. But usually just requiring a valid state registration/inspection sticker would discourage most of that.
-
Yep. HOA's are bullshit.
I'm thinking about getting a seat on the board just so I can shut the damn thing down. I can't think of a bigger waste of $$ than the $325 check I have to write every year.
-
It's parked nicely on the street in front of my house.
The bylaws say it has to move every 48 hours or they'll tow it. (Street parking)
Someone new got the enforcement position and has decided to act on this.
It won't fit in my garage. Too tall, wide, and long. Nor will the car unless we sell motorcycles and bicycles and everything else moving we keep in there. And then if I park the truck in the driveway my wife will have to move it every single time she wants to go anywhere because the truck will block the car in.
-
I'm missing something here- why not keep the car in front of the truck, so the car blocks the truck in?
Good luck- convincing them to allow street parking would be a lot more difficult than driveway, garage etc. (I love not having an HOA, but I do wish people parking on the street would be more careful to not park ON the sidewalk... oh well)
-
The thing that isn't driven much (the truck) gets parked in the driveway. The thing that is driven more often (the car?) gets parked in the street. No?
-
The thing that isn't driven much (the truck) gets parked in the driveway. The thing that is driven more often (the car?) gets parked in the street. No?
That would solve his problem for now until the laws are changed.
-
I'm failing to see why you even own a truck. So far you've listed at least three vehicles that you'd rather use: car, motorcycle and bicycle.
While I'm not a big fan of HOA's, "I've got too many vehicles for my garage" or "My truck is too large to fit in my garage" don't seem like great excuses for leaving your truck parked on the street indefinitely.
-
Also, having to move your truck from one parking space to another every second day isn't the same as having to drive your truck to work. Folks in New York have to move their car from one side of the street to another all the time. That doesn't mean they have to drive anywhere to do it.
-
I'm missing something here- why not keep the car in front of the truck, so the car blocks the truck in?
The driveway will fit either one car, or one truck. I can't put both in the driveway, and saying the truck "fits" in the driveway is a stretch.
The thing that isn't driven much (the truck) gets parked in the driveway. The thing that is driven more often (the car?) gets parked in the street. No?
It's a possibility, but it means that my (really very pregnant) wife will have to trudge through mud to get the soon-to-be-born kid in the car, since the child seat only fits on the passenger side. And the spirit of the thing, since nobody complained for the past 3 years I did the exact same thing, and threatening towing as a first exchange is absurd.
I'm failing to see why you even own a truck. So far you've listed at least three vehicles that you'd rather use: car, motorcycle and bicycle.
Because my wife & I are involved with an antique car club with her parents, and they're heavy to tow (6k lbs worth of car & trailer is trivial) - we don't have a car yet, but we tow the trouble trailer and generally help moving them around as needed. Also, hauling large things, which I find myself doing surprisingly often, either for myself (furniture on CL), or for friends (helping them move large things), or just for profit (making dump runs for people, since it's actually quite profitable to do so). We're pretty much the only people in our circle of friends/coworkers who own a truck, and since it's not often driven, having it sit doesn't really cost that much.
The motorcycles are sitting, since my wife is pregnant, and we aren't exactly riding much right now (I still ride, but not nearly as often). The value of them, used, is minimal, so keeping them around until we can ride more (including as a family) makes sense.
Also, having to move your truck from one parking space to another every second day isn't the same as having to drive your truck to work. Folks in New York have to move their car from one side of the street to another all the time. That doesn't mean they have to drive anywhere to do it.
I have yet to get confirmation that moving it around in the neighborhood counts. The responses have been incredibly passive aggressive, and when I asked if I should drive it to work, she responded with, "You can start doing that for now." Won't tell me when they're towing or even if they're towing, and they haven't been chalking wheels or anything, so I assume someone is just walking around in the middle of the day seeing what vehicles are present.
-
Can you quote the exact bylaw here? There are enough Mustachian legal types on these forums that you might get a hair-splitting strategy you would like....
-
The best I have so far:
Cars must be moved every 48 hours
-
Truck mostly sits, and main use is helping PILs move antique car? Can truck sit at PIL's home rather than yours? just a thought.
-
Not really. They're 500 miles away. And we move a lot of stuff locally as well.
We're planning to move closer to them in a year.
The uses of it, generally, justify a truck. I put very few miles on it that aren't hauling things. At least so far.
-
The best I have so far:
Cars must be moved every 48 hours
Ok, so every other day you move it...one foot forward, or one foot backward.
You can do it the easy way: turning on the engine and using combustion power. Or the semi-badass: put it in neutral and push by hand. Or the full-badass: either keep it in park and push, or pick it up - by hand either way.
But if they haven't defined "moved", as long as you "move" it then it seems they have no basis for proceeding against you. Thoughts...?
-
I'm looking for a house and was originally thinking of a townhouse, but HOA have turned me off. If nothing else, I could hire someone to handle lawn and snow care for far less than the association fee (though I plan on just doing it on my own of course). Plus then my backyard will be mine to make a garden and I can avoid unnecessary rules such as this (though of course, cities have their ordinances that I will need to be wary of).
-
Dude,
Why did you buy a home that did not have the parking you needed? And did not fit your vehicle? That is beyond absurd IMO.
It is very common here to not allow overnight street parking in HOA areas, and I am always amazed when people complain. Neighbors have every right to expect that HOA rules are enforced, and I bet a lot of them REALLY REALLY hate any street parking for more than 6 hours -- and that was a big factor on why they chose to live there -- the wide empty streets look nice and provide lots of visitor parking or cycling, etc...
Heck, one municipality here says that the entire CITY can only park a max of 3 hours on the street during daytime..
Just sell the truck, for something smaller (or nothing?), and some of the stuff filling your garage, and you are all set. Or rent your neighbors' parking spot / garage for your stuff. or rent a storage locker, or....?
Totally different story if this was parked in your driveway, but it's not.
-
Ok, so every other day you move it...one foot forward, or one foot backward.
You can do it the easy way: turning on the engine and using combustion power. Or the semi-badass: put it in neutral and push by hand. Or the full-badass: either keep it in park and push, or pick it up - by hand either way.
But if they haven't defined "moved", as long as you "move" it then it seems they have no basis for proceeding against you. Thoughts...?
They haven't defined move, but I'm pretty sure if I don't do what makes them happy, they tow it. The person I contacted essentially said, "Drive it regularly or we tow it."
I'm waiting for clarification, and since I'm going to be on parental leave soon, I intend to get clarification before then, because BOTH of us are going to be home for a month or so with minimal travel, depending on how the kid is natured.
Why did you buy a home that did not have the parking you needed? And did not fit your vehicle? That is beyond absurd IMO.
Serious answer? Because despite a raise moving to Seattle, I couldn't afford something with a 2 car garage in the area my work is. I've been very rent-poor before (50+% going to rent because I thought I could find roommates), and had no interest in doing so again. And the first 3 years we lived here, nobody cared about the Subaru or the truck that replaced it. There are plenty of other vehicles parked on the street on a regular basis as well, though I believe most of them got the notices as well.
Just sell the truck, for something smaller (or nothing?), and some of the stuff filling your garage, and you are all set. Or rent your neighbors' parking spot / garage for your stuff. or rent a storage locker, or....?
Well, unless I sell *everything* in the garage, I can't fit a car, so that doesn't make much sense to get rid of some of it. The motorcycles were used heavily when we lived in Albuquerque (hardly a weekend went by that my wife & I didn't ride somewhere, and I rode a motorcycle everywhere - I won't claim it was the most efficient way to get around, but quality-of-life-wise, it was amazing), and will be used again once we leave the hellhole that is Seattle.
And, in case you failed to notice above, I use the truck, as a truck, fairly regularly. It's surprisingly profitable being "the only guy people know with a truck." So I'd rather not sell it, since it was a truck I purchased to keep around for the next 20-30 years as a stuff-mover.
Worst case, I drive it a few times a week for the next year. Moving to Seattle was a big mistake, despite what people told us, and we're leaving for somewhere we actually like as soon as our lease is up.
I have, however, started a "CO2 emissions tracker" spreadsheet to keep in the window. I don't really care, but I suspect a lot of people who live around me do.
-
I'm on my HOA board. We recently reinstated parking enforcement. I made the motion and voted for it. The guest spots were often full of residents, so guests couldn't park. Neighbors were complaining. When an HOA doesn't enforce parking rules, then people start letting their garages fill up with non-car stuff, or even start repurposing them for living area. To offset their loss of internal parking, they externalize their parking needs to the common areas. It's a classic tragedy of the commons situation.
Your HOA is putting a small tax on the commons. What they're imposing is a convenience cost, but you seem intent on promoting that to whatever gas costs you to switch from bike to truck commuting. (That's your decision, not theirs.)
Another option is to park off of the HOA-run property. (City street parking. Maybe even your work.) That's what I do with my second car which I don't use much. The city doesn't seem to mind my externalizing my parking needs nearly as much as my neighbors did. Nothing wrong with hoofing it a bit, especially if you only rarely use it.
-
The overflow lot is full. As is my work lot (valet parking most of the day, which is part of why I bike). So neither is an option.
I don't consider motorcycles and bicycles to be unreasonable things to keep in a garage.
I also can't find anything referenced for this except a new bit of phrasing on the website from the last few months, which I was not notified of, which is just stating "vehicles must move every 48 hours."
And nobody is giving me answers about when they intend to start towing, or what they use as evidence. They're not chalking wheels, so a short trip may be missed. Since I'm going to be on paternity leave soon, this matters. If I go to the store, the vehicle has moved. But if whoever walks around missed that, they may still tow me.
A several hundred dollar tow bill is quite a few months of diesel. Plus repairs, since I assume tow companies will destroy the truck in the process of getting it out of the neighborhood, and are not liable for any damages.
-
I'm trying to visualize where you must live. As near as I can tell, there's an HOA-owned complex with an adjacent overflow lot. Everything else for miles around is a gaping wound in the Earth belching lava, with a bridge to your work where you also can't park. From your work there's another miles-long bridge over to the rest of civilization which has the nearest available street parking.
You said you were in Seattle, but what you're describing sounds more like Spokane.
-
I'm in a normal residential area with single family homes and duplexes. I park on the street. Surrounding me is a whole lot more residential area, presumably with their own unmarked parking laws. And a few schools. Imagine suburban h*ll. You're pretty close.
I'm fairly sure the streets are city owned here, which I will be verifying tomorrow. Along with relevant city parking regulations. I cannot find any evidence of this being mentioned anywhere when I moved in 3 years ago, nor can I find any relevant meeting minutes when it was changed.
-
The overflow lot is full. As is my work lot (valet parking most of the day, which is part of why I bike). So neither is an option.
I don't consider motorcycles and bicycles to be unreasonable things to keep in a garage.
I also can't find anything referenced for this except a new bit of phrasing on the website from the last few months, which I was not notified of, which is just stating "vehicles must move every 48 hours."
And nobody is giving me answers about when they intend to start towing, or what they use as evidence. They're not chalking wheels, so a short trip may be missed. Since I'm going to be on paternity leave soon, this matters. If I go to the store, the vehicle has moved. But if whoever walks around missed that, they may still tow me.
A several hundred dollar tow bill is quite a few months of diesel. Plus repairs, since I assume tow companies will destroy the truck in the process of getting it out of the neighborhood, and are not liable for any damages.
Wow, you are getting much close(r) to a lot of complainy-pants justification, when quite a few decent solutions have been brought forward... not all solutions will fit, but more than one of these seems plausible to me...
-- motorcycles, bikes, workshop, storage -- all are reasonable garage uses, except that you have no where to park your car now.
-- overflow lot is full -- if not assigned parking, just wait for that one magical opening, and take it and keep your truck there for weeks on end without moving it.
-- renting a storage or parking space somewhere (near or far) is still an option, as is parking the truck with your PIL's or even a friend's home.
-- When looking, there must have been homes that allowed you to park your truck on site, or pay for a outdoor spot, or ?? when you chose your townhome, but I bet you never even considered the parking problem..
Can you even park that thing fully in front of your townhouse, or is it partially in front of your neighbor too? Townhouses here are quite narrow, I bet Seattle too. I hate it when the neighbor parks in front of my home / front window, leaving no space for visitors...
-
It's not a town home. Nor is it an apartment complex. It's standalone houses and duplexes on a city street. There is no assigned parking except driveways.
There is plenty of on street parking, which is commonly used by many people. Me included.
And, based on my research so far, this was not a regulation when I moved in. It magically appeared very recently, and is not mentioned in any meeting notes I can find. Nor can I find anything requiring cars to be kept in a garage.
So far, it's looking like a very bored busybody who walks around during the day to see what's parked where.
-
Ask a board member what's up (if it's a new rule, minutes might not exist yet) and check your bylaws. In our case the rules are hard to change, so we were only able to act because we were changing enforcement policy within existing rules. You're leasing, so you're probably not plugged into that stuff, but a neighbor or your landlord should be able to point you at one.
Most likely, IMO, the rules are longstanding and your HOA is just changing enforcement, likely in response to complaints as you note. If they're singling you out, then that might be bogus. Is your truck an eyesore?
I should note that I don't live in your state, and have no idea what laws govern what HOAs can do where you live. But those are the things I'd look into based on how I know our own actions are constrained.
-
Yeah, I'm finding out what I can. One of my neighbors is the secretary, so I'm trying to get recent meeting notes.
Truck is in great shape, physically and mechanically. It's a bit dirty, but that's it.
And I'd rather not sell it, since it took a good long while to find one in this shape and it's got another 20-30 years in it. Plus, as noted, it's used as a truck regularly.
-
The overflow lot is full. As is my work lot (valet parking most of the day, which is part of why I bike). So neither is an option.
I don't consider motorcycles and bicycles to be unreasonable things to keep in a garage.
I also can't find anything referenced for this except a new bit of phrasing on the website from the last few months, which I was not notified of, which is just stating "vehicles must move every 48 hours."
And nobody is giving me answers about when they intend to start towing, or what they use as evidence. They're not chalking wheels, so a short trip may be missed. Since I'm going to be on paternity leave soon, this matters. If I go to the store, the vehicle has moved. But if whoever walks around missed that, they may still tow me.
A several hundred dollar tow bill is quite a few months of diesel. Plus repairs, since I assume tow companies will destroy the truck in the process of getting it out of the neighborhood, and are not liable for any damages.
Wow, you are getting much close(r) to a lot of complainy-pants justification, when quite a few decent solutions have been brought forward... not all solutions will fit, but more than one of these seems plausible to me...
-- motorcycles, bikes, workshop, storage -- all are reasonable garage uses, except that you have no where to park your car now.
-- overflow lot is full -- if not assigned parking, just wait for that one magical opening, and take it and keep your truck there for weeks on end without moving it.
-- renting a storage or parking space somewhere (near or far) is still an option, as is parking the truck with your PIL's or even a friend's home.
-- When looking, there must have been homes that allowed you to park your truck on site, or pay for a outdoor spot, or ?? when you chose your townhome, but I bet you never even considered the parking problem..
Can you even park that thing fully in front of your townhouse, or is it partially in front of your neighbor too? Townhouses here are quite narrow, I bet Seattle too. I hate it when the neighbor parks in front of my home / front window, leaving no space for visitors...
Bolding mine. Dude, you've got too much stuff. Man up and get rid of some of it.
-
This is a very common rule in most municipalities. I had the same issue when i had a 3rd car my truck. The city flagged it. The intent is to get rid of vehicles just left on the road. Its not a bad law. They have to be doing something to make sure it hasnt moved though IE chalking your tire. I would just go check your tires for a chalk mark every couple days and if you see one wipe it off. They just dont want inoperable vehicles sitting all over town. This is likely a city ordinance not just an HOA thing.
-
find out who the board members are and move your truck every other day in front of their houses. so they cant park there.
-
If I were a betting man, someone (probably old, probably retired) got real tired of your big truck sitting on the road and decided to allocate all sorts of free time to solving the biggest perceivable problem in his/her life.
-
I've been checking for chalk. No such things I can find.
-
find out who the board members are and move your truck every other day in front of their houses. so they cant park there.
(http://clatl.com/binary/1953/1367496144-golf-clap.gif)
-
This is a very common rule in most municipalities. I had the same issue when i had a 3rd car my truck. The city flagged it.
Also, this very definitely was not the city. It was someone from the HOA. And, may be at odds with city laws regarding vehicle parking on streets.
Selling a few things doesn't resolve the issue, unless I sell pretty much all the things, and then it still doesn't resolve the issue, because my wife wouldn't be able to get out of the garage with another vehicle (any sort) in the driveway. So short of entirely selling all the moving things, which won't work in a year when we move to rural Idaho, it's not a solution.
-
I doubt its at odds with city laws. your HOA can have extra ordinances but most cities have the same ordinance. about moving every 2 days. Just because your HOA is enforcing something doesnt mean its not a law at the city level.
-
My thoughts: For everyone telling him to sell something, STAHP. He doesn't want to, and when he moved in he had all the space he needed. He shouldn't have too. Now the HOA is effectively telling him that there are new rules (assuming so, since he can't find them anywhere) and he never agreed to them.
However, if you're moving out soon... Just move the truck Monday morning, Tuesday night, Thursday morning, Friday night, etc. Doesn't sound like there are any regulations about how far you move it, so it would probably take about 15 minutes total a week. Do it on your way out the door or your way in. Literally move it across the street or to the next house, and back each day. Take a picture on your phone in case they do tow it. And go to the next HOA meeting and figure out what is up.
-
Heh.
A guy I lived with in university had a car parked in the driveway of the row house that we were renting. He was away for the summer, but I was living there. I guess the passenger side front tire sprung a leak and went flat at some point over the summer. Then tickets started appearing on his car every night.
Every. Single. Night.
I checked the tickets, they read "illegally parked vehicle on private property". So I stayed up until 3:00 in the morning to ask the guy writing the tickets what was going on. He told me that the city had ordered him to ticket the vehicle. In the private driveway that it was parked in. So the next day I went to the city office and asked about the ticket. They told me that the HOA had told them that the car was parked illegally in the driveway. So I went to the HOA office (only open from 10:00 am to 2:00 pm every second Wednesday). Asked them why they were ticketing my friend's car . . . in our driveway.
They said that they wanted me to move the car because of the flat tire. I explained the situation and managed to get them to call the city and cancel the 15-16 parking tickets that the car had been given by that time. I filled up the tire with a bike pump every couple weeks and the tickets stopped.
It's always fun dealing with HOAs.
-
Selling a few things doesn't resolve the issue, unless I sell pretty much all the things, and then it still doesn't resolve the issue, because my wife wouldn't be able to get out of the garage with another vehicle (any sort) in the driveway. So short of entirely selling all the moving things, which won't work in a year when we move to rural Idaho, it's not a solution.
Well, I guess you're stuck moving it every couple of days, then. For what you pay to maintain and insure your truck, you could probably rent a truck for all the times you need to tow something or haul something. Although those of us without stately trucks do manage to get things to and from our home through alternate means. It's my opinion that moving things for other people is by far the silliest reason to own a truck.
You moved into a neighborhood with an HOA. People who like HOA's choose to move into neighborhoods with HOA's because an HOA ensures that everything in the neighborhood is neat and orderly, because that's the kind of neighborhood they want to live in. They don't want to live somewhere where their neighbors leave rarely-used vehicles in the street, or hang their underpants out on clothesline, have dog runs, or backyard chickens, or have front-yard vegetable gardens. Those people did the right thing by choosing to buy a home in a neighborhood with an HOA.
People who don't like HOA's should not move into neighborhoods with HOA's. The rule you're complaining about is the predictable outcome of an HOA. The vast majority of your neighbors would probably prefer not to see your massive, diesel-guzzling truck sitting on the street as long-term storage. Good for them for choosing a neighborhood that has an HOA.
It doesn't matter if this is a new rule. You agreed to be bound by the HOA's rules. Whatever those rules may be. The HOA has every right to impose new rules, as long as they introduce them according to the process that governs the HOA. You had (and have) every right to participate in that process. Clearly, you chose not to attend meetings.
-
You moved into a neighborhood with an HOA.
That way my first question as well: why? Why would a person with two vehicles move to place with only one parking spot that doesn't allow street parking?
Regadless of all the other drama, that's basically the crux of the problem. OP wants to have two vehicles in a place that apparently only allows one. There are a variety of solutions to this problem...
1. move to a place that has more parking
2. get rid of a vehicle
3. try to change the rules about street parking, while
4. moving your truck every day.
-
You moved into a neighborhood with an HOA.
That way my first question as well: why? Why would a person with two vehicles move to place with only one parking spot that doesn't allow street parking?
Regadless of all the other drama, that's basically the crux of the problem. OP wants to have two vehicles in a place that apparently only allows one.
Because, once again, he didn't move to that place. The place that he moved to had no issue with street parking. That place changed and is apparently no longer.
-
It wasn't an issue when we moved in, and I'd asked about it, because I knew we were using the garage for motorcycle parking. Everyone assured me it wouldn't be a problem, which it hasn't been, for the past 3 years. Literally not one complaint. Occasionally people asking me to help move stuff or haul it to the dump when I was making a run and tossing me some cash, which was fine with me. Also, the area absolutely does allow street parking, and it's quite common. There's plenty of room in the neighborhood for the cars. I'd say perhaps 30% of the street parking is used.
And we're moving in a year. Unfortunately, the lease is already signed for this (as of 6 months ago), so we're sort of stuck in this location.
I consider it a lesson learned about HOAs, even when people insist they're not a problem - they will become one at some point. Actually, the whole Seattle experiment has been a lesson, but that's a different thread.
As for those insisting that a truck is silly, that's fine. It might be for you. Hauling 48U metal server racks & such in a Fit won't happen, the storage requirements for a trailer are far more annoying (also, Seattle area hills, a small car, and a heavy trailer don't work - this isn't Iowa), and I really don't mind hauling stuff for other people on occasion, especially when they're willing to pay me for it. I have it, it's paid for, I do all the work on it myself, and the cost of it sitting around to be used when I need it isn't something my wife & I lose any sleep over. Being able to jump on good deals because we're the only people calling about something who can actually move it, on the other hand, is quite nice.
-
Send a certified letter to the HOA requesting to have the bylaws sent to you so that you can follow them as closely as possible. Let the HOA know that you want to comply and need to see the documents to make sure you follow the rules. Also let them know that you'll be moving in a year. If someone just doesn't like you or your truck, maybe seeing the light at the end of the tunnel will help them calm down about it.
-
The bylaws and such are posted on the website. None of them seem to state anything relevant. There's just a new phrase on the front page of the website saying "Cars must be moved every 48 hours" - and nothing else.
-
With that, I would send a certified letter stating the following:
- You were not required to, and did not sign anything stating that you had to move a street parked vehicle every 48 hours
- There is nothing in the by-laws or local municipalities stating such an ordinance/rule
- If the vehicle is towed, you will be reporting it to the police as a stolen vehicle and pressing charges as it was not in violation of any by-laws or laws or ordinances
-
Oh, it being Seattle and all, might want to include something about EPA and emissions making the ice cubes melt.
-
Oh, it being Seattle and all, might want to include something about EPA and emissions making the ice cubes melt.
I'm actually already keeping a log of "Miles driven simply to avoid the HOA towing me," which I will be sticking in the window for passers-by to observe, with an email address they can contact the person in charge of the policy at if they'd like to see it clarified so I'm not clogging up traffic and putting out a lot of unneeded emissions simply because someone won't answer questions.
And then in a few weeks, I'll be on paternity leave, so will... dunno, go turn the steering wheel every few days. I really don't think this is any more rigorous than "I walk past and see it's parked there." Which probably means I should stop parking in the same spot (I've got the parking down by feel of the road edge so I'm within a few inches every time).
-
The bylaws and such are posted on the website. None of them seem to state anything relevant. There's just a new phrase on the front page of the website saying "Cars must be moved every 48 hours" - and nothing else.
Bold is from me. This is why you want to ask their help to determine what they think is relevant. They should be able to point you to the exact and precise section of the bylaws. A statement that "just went up" on a website is not a bylaw. So rather than going around in circles, with what you believe vs. what they believe, why not just ask?
-
Send a certified letter to the HOA requesting to have the bylaws sent to you so that you can follow them as closely as possible. Let the HOA know that you want to comply and need to see the documents to make sure you follow the rules. Also let them know that you'll be moving in a year. If someone just doesn't like you or your truck, maybe seeing the light at the end of the tunnel will help them calm down about it.
This. Handle this like a professional. Don't stoop to the level of people you are describing as "passive aggressive" by doing the same thing in your front window. Addressing things like this directly is usually best. Express a desire to see the specific regulation they are referring to in writing so you can be sure you are complying with it. If they can't provide it they will have to tell you that direcly. If you believe the parking is a city street make sure you know the city street parking rules as well. Needing to move a vehicle every two days doesn't seem unreasonable. Until you hear more, I would just move to a different parking spot every few days. They can't force you to drive to work without a specific rule about how long the vehicle has to be gone.
-
Wow. Land of the free, huh?
-
I have. Still waiting to hear back. All I've received in response to queries so far are vaguely worded, mildly passive aggressive comments (so pretty standard Seattle-style communication). If the point me at something concrete, then I will certainly abide by it. If not, then I'll probably drive it to work until paternity leave, then just move it around the street, and if someone complains, tell them I went to the store and they must have missed it.
-
Sounds to me like there isn't actually any rule about street parking and they're just trying to strongarm you into submission. Putting something on a website doesn't make it true.
In which case you can ignore them. Towing companies probably won't tow a legally parked vehicle anyway.
-
Can't you just swap the car and the truck each day? Park one on the street and one on the driveway, then reverse? Much better than driving to work.
-
Sounds to me like there isn't actually any rule about street parking and they're just trying to strongarm you into submission. Putting something on a website doesn't make it true.
In which case you can ignore them. Towing companies probably won't tow a legally parked vehicle anyway.
Given the multiple responses I've received saying, "I'm new to this position," and "I will check with the board" instead of referring to specific parts of the HOA agreement or meetings where things were changed, with the new wording, I'm increasingly inclined to agree with you that this is an empty threat. At which point I can safely go back to bicycling.
Can't you just swap the car and the truck each day? Park one on the street and one on the driveway, then reverse? Much better than driving to work.
I could. We might end up having to do that when we're home with a newborn, since neither of us will be leaving the house much (and I bike or walk to the store most of the time as well).
-
Dude,
Why did you buy a home that did not have the parking you needed? And did not fit your vehicle? That is beyond absurd IMO.
It is very common here to not allow overnight street parking in HOA areas, and I am always amazed when people complain. Neighbors have every right to expect that HOA rules are enforced, and I bet a lot of them REALLY REALLY hate any street parking for more than 6 hours -- and that was a big factor on why they chose to live there -- the wide empty streets look nice and provide lots of visitor parking or cycling, etc...
Heck, one municipality here says that the entire CITY can only park a max of 3 hours on the street during daytime..
Just sell the truck, for something smaller (or nothing?), and some of the stuff filling your garage, and you are all set. Or rent your neighbors' parking spot / garage for your stuff. or rent a storage locker, or....?
Totally different story if this was parked in your driveway, but it's not.
Some places don't have parking? I live in a small city, in a small house, on a packed street. People have a lot of cars.
My neighbors have an old house with a small garage (as in, would maybe fit a Civic). They have a minivan (3 kids), an SUV (work vehicle), a truck (other work vehicle), and an RV.
They park the RV in the driveway, but only one car fits, so the other 3 cars are on the street.
There are houses in my city that have street parking only. Our house has 2 parking spots in the front "yard" only.
-
It's not a town home. Nor is it an apartment complex. It's standalone houses and duplexes on a city street. There is no assigned parking except driveways.
There is plenty of on street parking, which is commonly used by many people. Me included.
And, based on my research so far, this was not a regulation when I moved in. It magically appeared very recently, and is not mentioned in any meeting notes I can find. Nor can I find anything requiring cars to be kept in a garage.
So far, it's looking like a very bored busybody who walks around during the day to see what's parked where.
I'm not in an HOA but it's very similar to the laws we have in our city for regular street parking.
There are some areas that have very bad parking issues, and there, you have to have a permit to park. (I had a similar situation when I lived in Arlington, VA, in the 90s)
The are other areas that aren't as bad, more spread out. There is open street parking but you MUST move your car every 72 hours. Of course, they don't tow you unless they get a complaint.
A friend of mine used to call in front of her house if someone parked there for 3 days, because it was "extra" cars and she couldn't even park in front of her own house.
I only ever called on someone in front of my house once - it was a big pick up truck with a For Sale sign on it, and after 5 days I called it in. The city put a warning on it. I think it got moved right before they were going to tow it. But you know, I could not see to get my little Civic out of the driveway with a big red truck in front of my house. I'm sure it was just there because it's a corner and so it's a good place to get visibility on the sale.
Only one of my friends called me "mean" for calling it in. Hey, the laws in the city are clear. If the single guy who lives behind me (we share a driveway) leaves one of his FOUR cars on the street for 5 days when he's on vacation, I won't call him in, because I know his car. Same with the next door neighbors. (Though why a single guy needs 2 SUVs and 2 cars, and cannot manage to park them at his house with a 2-car garage and 3 other parking spaces is beyond me).
-
And if our local parking coordinator would tell me what law they were actually trying to enforce, or what HOA regulation they'd added and the wording, I would happily comply.
She hasn't done either. Just a lot of whining about how she's new to the position.
-
And if our local parking coordinator would tell me what law they were actually trying to enforce, or what HOA regulation they'd added and the wording, I would happily comply.
She hasn't done either. Just a lot of whining about how she's new to the position.
Just tell her that you are complying with the current regulations, and if they want to change the HOA rules to forbid street parking they should get an agenda item on the HOA meeting schedule to propose a committee to review how to change the HOA bylaws.
That should take at least a few months, then they can request a vote. Be sure to insist they get a quorum to show up, as I'm sure your HOA won't allow any rule changes without one.
In the meantime, follow the current rules. I would probably also remind the person threatening you with towing that they are the one in violation of the bylaws. Then run against them at the next HOA election on those grounds.
-
It seems to me this can be solved in a very mustachian way. First of all - priorities.
- Sell the motorcycles. You can't ride the with the baby, period. You mentioned they do not have a lot of value - that means it will be cheap to buy back in when you're ready to ride again!
- Get a vertical rack for your garage - this way you can park your bicycles on the wall:
(http://nwamotherlode.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Bike-Rack1.jpg) - Park your truck in the garage
- Park your car in the driveway
- Profit!
Look, you can battle an HOA all you like, and maybe you'll even win, but this way you're making a change that is 100% in compliance with what they want, doesn't determent your current life - you're only getting rid of the motorcycles you don't ride, you're keeping the truck that you actually use - and your quality of life will improve from not having to deal with HOA jerks. Plus you get to keep biking to work. I'd say that's a win on all fronts - optimization all around!
-
HOA's suck. I got towed dropping my dog off at a friend's house who lives in a crazy HOA. I parked in his driveway and my bumper was blocking the sidewalk. I was in his house less than 8 minutes and got towed. The tow truck driver did the whole thing without his lights on to avoid me seeing him. Sneaky.
It is very common to have ridiculous rules. Instead of trying to change the rules, I would just try to avoid them at all costs. I believe that is the strategy of MMM.
-
Sell the truck. It's a headache and a luxury.
-
It seems to me this can be solved in a very mustachian way. First of all - priorities.
Yes, one of which is "Getting out of this area," which we're doing in a year. :) So, worst case, I have to deal with this for a year. And, as my previous updates implied, the person responsible for this has utterly and completely no clue what rules she's actually enforcing, and refuses to answer very simple questions about what the phrasing of the rule is, what the requirements are, how they determine vehicles have moved, etc. At this point, I'm reasonably convinced the problem was not that my truck didn't move often enough, but that I got good at parking it in the same space when it did move (usually in the evenings or at night). So instead of parking it tightly with the wheels over the lip of the road, tucked up against the garden, so the Subaru from across the street fit nicely in front of it and there was plenty of room (hundreds of feet) behind it for other cars, I'm parking it randomly in that several hundred foot stretch (which, sadly, means I hang out a bit further into the road, because I can't clear the various decorative boulders back there). If the person involved stops hassling me due to these changes in how I park, then I'm happy, and can keep ebiking my way to work without being bothered. If they never tell me that it's required to move and be away from the neighborhood for 8 hours a day or whatever, then I can just shuffle parking spots and be fine. I was concerned about this due to the "vehicles don't move analysis method" seeming to be, "Walk around during the day and see what's parked where" (based on lack of evidence of any other method).
Sell the motorcycles. You can't ride the with the baby, period. You mentioned they do not have a lot of value - that means it will be cheap to buy back in when you're ready to ride again!
My *wife* can't ride with the baby. I certainly can, and do at least on occasion out here (and will do so more when we move, as it won't involve sitting in traffic in the rain). Given that our plan involves moving very close to grandparents, we'll probably be able to ride sooner rather than later once we move. I've considered selling the motorcycles, but as they're Buells (a discontinued brand), they're really not worth much at all on the used market, I know the entire maintenance history of one of them and a good chunk of the history of the others (including all the recent history), and they're well tuned to how we ride them.
With regards to this particular issue, unless I sell /all/ of them, there's no benefit to parking - our garage is small enough that I would have to get rid of all the motorcycles to have a chance of fitting the car. Since I do still use them myself on occasion when my wife & I are going different places and I don't have time to bike (or am going too far for bicycle), it makes sense to keep at least one, which means there's no benefit to selling the others.
If I were to sell them and obtain comparable bikes in the future, they'd be a different brand, and I'd be spending roughly ~2x the expected sale value to get a decent set of stuff, plus 6 months of the "maintenance catchup game and costs" that every new-to-me used vehicle ever has involved.
Get a vertical rack for your garage - this way you can park your bicycles on the wall
That's actually really cool, and I had no idea that existed. I'm pretty confident that drilling holes in the garage wall to mount things like that is against our lease as well, because everything else we've wanted to do with the place we're renting is against our lease.
Park your truck in the garage
Park your car in the driveway
And here's where the set of suggestions comes apart, unfortunately. The truck doesn't fit in the garage. Not even close. It's too wide, too tall, and too long. It's a truck obtained for somewhat infrequent use hauling large things, towing heavy things, and generally covering the large end of our transportation requirements. The garage is also a very small garage.
The only viable way of putting both vehicles in is "Car in the garage, truck in the driveway fully blocking the car," which would require the truck to move any time we wanted to take the car anywhere. Sort of defeats the purpose.
Look, you can battle an HOA all you like, and maybe you'll even win, but this way you're making a change that is 100% in compliance with what they want, doesn't determent your current life - you're only getting rid of the motorcycles you don't ride, you're keeping the truck that you actually use - and your quality of life will improve from not having to deal with HOA jerks. Plus you get to keep biking to work. I'd say that's a win on all fronts - optimization all around!
I think calling the HOA jerks bluff also solves the problem nicely. :) Which, as far as I can tell, I have successfully done (in this case). At the very least, I have an email chain I can point to and say, "I asked very simple, specific questions about the requirements, and they were entirely unanswered" should they try to give me trouble in the future.
Sell the truck. It's a headache and a luxury.
I'll be sure to note that later. I'm heading out to (yet again) use it as a truck, moving a side business I'm part owner of from one building to a larger facility as we're outgrowing our current space. It gets used as a truck 3-4 times a month, either for stuff I'm moving, or profitably, helping other people deal with large stuff that they can't move on their own with standard Seattle vehicles. Or, on occasion, just being nice and helping people out for free (which I understand isn't very popular around here for some reason). And, unlike a rental truck, I can actually keep useful things in it, like a few dozen moving blankets, tie down straps, tools, etc. Which, again, get used frequently, and would otherwise be in my garage.
-
My *wife* can't ride with the baby. I certainly can, and do at least on occasion out here
Umm, I hate to break it to you, but you're a dad now. Speaking as someone who's about to have his fist baby any day (we're 1 week overdue), I must say ... I would LOVE to get a crotch rocket. A Ducati Monster makes my blood pump faster. But a 2-wheeled vehicle is a method of transportation where you can be doing EVERYTHING right, and a small mistake by another driver may end your life - the same mistake would have resulted in a scratch on your car or truck, such as a side swipe into a blind zone. You cannot afford to ride - not because of money or parking problems, but because you cannot afford to leave your baby without a father. This is why my motorcycle purchase will wait until my kid is 18 and in college, living on their own. Until then - I have to be there for her, every hour of every day.
Oh - and I'm sorry, I didn't realize the truck doesn't fit into the garage - yes, then my suggestion of parking it there is unworkable. :(
Best of luck with the HOA, let us know how it turns out. I have an HOA myself ($260/mo) but they're nowhere near that obnoxious - the most issues I've had with them is arguing over the paint color of the front door on my condo (I'll spare you the details - there is no arguing, it's their color and there's no challenging that).
-
But a 2-wheeled vehicle is a method of transportation where you can be doing EVERYTHING right, and a small mistake by another driver may end your life - the same mistake would have resulted in a scratch on your car or truck, such as a side swipe into a blind zone. You cannot afford to ride - not because of money or parking problems, but because you cannot afford to leave your baby without a father. This is why my motorcycle purchase will wait until my kid is 18 and in college, living on their own. Until then - I have to be there for her, every hour of every day.
That's an interesting analysis in a thread where my major concern is that I'd rather bicycle to work than drive a truck to work. I've had far more close calls with cars bicycling past heavy traffic in the bike lane than I've had riding motorcycles in less populated areas. I've also managed roughly an equal (low) number of motorcycle and bicycle crashes over the many years I've preferred two wheels, and I've done significantly more damage to myself on a bicycle than a motorcycle (it turns out crashing in full riding gear at low speed is less damaging than crashing in shorts and a tshirt from the same height and similar speeds).
I ride motorcycles in full gear, mostly neon, and while having a kid will certainly affect some of my riding style (though getting older has roughly the same effect), I'd rather do what I can to mitigate the risk and still ride, than avoid doing something I love doing for 2 decades because it might injure or kill me. That's the same logic that leads to people buying huge (new) SUVs, because they're "safe" (even though they're not). I expect that more of our riding will be taking motorcycles down utterly inappropriate roads for them (dirt/gravel), and I might end up with different motorcycles slightly better suited to that, but "Don't ride because it's unsafe" is not something I care to teach my kids. :) And there are a lot of things that could injure or kill me.
However, I'll probably spend more time taking various motorcycle control classes, since I'm not riding every day anymore, and I recognize that my skills are hugely decayed from that period in my life (I could feel the edge being gone if I'd gone 2-3 days without riding - I'm currently about as sharp as a ball peen hammer). And, maybe ride in something closer to full leathers than normal street gear. I'll see.
-
you have two vehicles, and do not use one of them, the truck, often. you are complaining about having to move it every 48 hours. your wife doesn't like driving it. the truck doesn't fit in the garage you have, or the drive way you have, and it is in danger of being towed for its lack of use. you bike to work, and occasionally use this truck to move things. I am assuming you have to pay insurance for this truck, and depending in the state, excise tax. so you take to this forum to say that the only option you have ( as per the title of this thread) is to now drive this vehicle to work.
It's clear that the OP doesn't want any solutions that involve the following:
1) selling his truck/bikes/other car/stuff in garage
2) doing anything with the truck that involves moving it in some other way than driving it to work
.you dont really have to drive it to work. you just dont want to take any other solution. I do not think the HOA is the real issue here
-
The best I have so far:
Cars must be moved every 48 hours
Ok, so every other day you move it...one foot forward, or one foot backward.
You can do it the easy way: turning on the engine and using combustion power. Or the semi-badass: put it in neutral and push by hand. Or the full-badass: either keep it in park and push, or pick it up - by hand either way.
But if they haven't defined "moved", as long as you "move" it then it seems they have no basis for proceeding against you. Thoughts...?
My old state had that law and you had to drive it more than that.
-
My old state had that law and you had to drive it more than that.
Two feet? ;)
Seriously - did the state define "how much" it needed to be moved?
-
I think a few MMM articles are in order here
First, accept that owning a large truck is basically never a good choice (best case weld a hitch onto your car to tow your trailer and totally get rid of it, worst case trade it for a minivan)
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/04/its-never-too-late-to-ditch-your-gas-guzzler/
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/12/08/turning-a-little-car-into-a-big-one/
Next, realize that you can and should use Craigslist to clean out your garage. This will give you cash now and make moving easier in the future. Plus if you ever do need these things again in the future Craigslist will be there again providing replacements. Selling in a big city like Seattle will probably add a premium to the prices too which is an added bonus. On top of all this investing the cash you earn from selling now means it will be even greater when time comes to replace these things.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/11/get-rich-with-craigslist/
Finally, remember that a Mustachian life is all about the reward of solving puzzles rather than just complaining about them.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/07/how-to-tell-if-youre-a-complainypants/
You sound like a driven capable guy, get to solving this one!
-
I'm quite familiar with the articles linked, and I'm also quite familiar with the fact that, trying to tow 1500 lbs with my previous Subaru through mountains, it was not a happy vehicle. Storing a trailer has the same issue as the truck here. And, a Subaru won't tow an antique car. That's ~6k lbs or so, with car + trailer, and my wife's family is very active with such things. We've towed trouble trailer on some tours already (nearly century old cars don't match a Honda Fit for reliability), and are going to continue getting more involved with that group.
Further, I /actually use the truck as a truck/ when I drive it. I just moved the side business I'm part owner of this weekend (couple trips, full bed and cab each time), and am in the middle of searching for the right deal on a dozen or so 7' tall server racks to populate our new server room (yes, I have a 8' bed, because, yes, I do move large and long things regularly). Being able to pick up large stuff on short notice and actually move it is rare in the Seattle area, which has led to some very nice deals for me.
The "solution" to this particular issue, according to a few conversations I've had with other people on the HOA board, is to just not park it in exactly the same spot every time when I do drive it. So, hopefully, this resolves the issue, and people leave me alone for a year until I move out of this area into somewhere where a truck makes even more sense (rural Idaho, planning to do a lot of aquaculture, solar R&D, and gardening).
And at this point, unless someone complains again, it doesn't have to go to work regularly. Because they won't tell me what the expectation is, I'm setting my own, which looks an awful lot like what I was doing.
-
"other stuff" and my wife's family is very active with such things. We've towed trouble trailer on some tours already (nearly century old cars don't match a Honda Fit for reliability), and are going to continue getting more involved with that group.
It sounds to me that your wife's family needs a truck, and you need a trailer. Sell them the truck and buy a trailer for your needs.
I know that you have said storage on the trailer would be an issue as well, but I am sure that they will have trailer storage sites in the area. We have them here, and they charge something like $25 a month. this would really reduce your costs.
-
The overflow lot in the area is full, and trailers explicitly cannot be kept in front of a house. The truck, as a self-mobile vehicle, can be. Just, make sure it's *obvious* that it moves.
And the point with the antique cars is that my wife & I are planning to get our own antique car shortly after moving, and/or take one of the others her family has (they've got a few) to meets. Also, once I've got a bit more shop space, I have many other projects that involve moving heavy things (A friend out east makes good coin repairing construction equipment, which sounds like fun).
With regards to selling things and investing the profits, if we weren't planning to move in under a year, that would make sense, but the transaction costs and "uncertainty costs" (the roughly 6 months that every used vehicle I've ever owned has proven to have, where you spend all your time replacing parts and fixing what the previous owner messed up) make that a significant loss for us. At this point, all the vehicles are known quantities and I've been doing their maintenance for long enough to be on top of what the current state is.
Really, my major takeaway from this is that HOAs are, in fact, as bad as I'd feared, and we're not city types. Or even suburb types. And that moving to Seattle was a very large mistake, and despite the awesome job I moved for, moving to an area that is not compatible with who my wife & I are is dumb. Also that people who insist Seattle is amazing haven't lived here since about 2000.
-
Really, my major takeaway from this is that HOAs are, in fact, as bad as I'd feared, and we're not city types. Or even suburb types. And that moving to Seattle was a very large mistake, and despite the awesome job I moved for, moving to an area that is not compatible with who my wife & I are is dumb. Also that people who insist Seattle is amazing haven't lived here since about 2000.
HOAs are indeed evil. (Did you know they started out as a tool to enforce segregation? True story!)
However, the issues you've been having have very little to do with living in a city. An actual urban / inner-ring suburban neighborhood, with small single-family houses built before 1950 or so, will generally not have an HOA and let you do whatever the fuck you want (up to the limits of the city ordinances). My house was built in 1948, I have 3 cars parked in front of it (two in the driveway and a pickup truck in the street), and it's perfectly fine. I have a friend a couple of streets over whose house is bright purple. I could tear out my lawn and put a vegetable garden in my front yard if I wanted. I could even paint polka-dots on my house and nobody would care! (Or maybe they would care, but they wouldn't be able to do anything about it.) I've got neighbors who raise chickens in their backyard, neighbors who have woodworking shops in their detached garages, neighbors with crazy sculptures or landscaping, etc. It's great!
-
That sounds entirely reasonable. I'm just in suburban blandness.
-
My old state had that law and you had to drive it more than that.
Two feet? ;)
Seriously - did the state define "how much" it needed to be moved?
Until the powder the cop put on it was off.
-
I would drive it around the block every other day, and park it 100+ yards away from where it was parked last time. Surely, that is "moved" by any reasonable standard. I would also send another email to the board member with whom you've been corresponding, letting her know that the truck will be moved at least 100 yards and/or to the opposite side of the street very 48 hours, and that you will consider that to be in compliance since it is certainly "moving" the vehicle. Tell her that if she does not respond to your email, you will consider that her agreement that your plan does in fact comply with the rule, and that if she does respond saying your plan is insufficient, you will be forced to contact a lawyer in order to determine the legality of the rule.
HOAs hate lawyers.
That said, not all HOAs are that bad. In SoCal, it is nearly impossible to find a house without an HOA. (Rare exceptions do exist, but they can be very hard to come by.) But our current place (a rental, but it used to be home) as a super chill HOA. They do have a few color pallets from which exterior paint colors must be chosen, but generally, the only other time they do anything is if a house has major wood rot or something super unsightly. And in that case, they give you months to fix it, and even more months as an extension if you let them know you are working on it.
-
I live in an HOA. For what i get based on what i pay it couldnt be any better. for 500 a year i get access to a private lake, a clubhouse with parties thrown once a month (tyically a live band and free food, a pool. all very reasonable
-
That's actually really cool, and I had no idea that existed. I'm pretty confident that drilling holes in the garage wall to mount things like that is against our lease as well, because everything else we've wanted to do with the place we're renting is against our lease.
At risk of going off topic, because I know it doesn't affect the truck problem: holes in a wall are really easy to fill. Check for matching paint left around the house (otherwise, any hardware store can match to a chip).
And I have to ask: why do you hate Seattle? I have nothing but good memories from my college years, and have always enjoyed going back. Anything from downtown to way out in the mountains/islands - it was all good for me, and I may even go back.
-
From the point of view of your neighbours, it can be very annoying if you park a (huge?) somewhat dirty truck in front of their houses constantly (not that this is what you are doing). In winter especially, as the plow needs to avoid the parked car and does a shitty job of plowing the snow.
The HOA harrassment probably doesn't come from nowhere, one of your neighbours probably made a call to the HOA office. I am sure they have other stuff to do than to patrol for "unmoved" cars.
On an unrelated note, we live in a townhouse area and we are amazed by the number of cars that are parked in front of these. If you walk around at night, the street almost look like a parking lot. Townhouses usually have an attached garage, one parking spot outside and one in front of their home (not designated). Of course, most garages are full of junk and most people have 2-3 and sometimes 4(!) cars to park. Insanity.
-
I haven't read every post here, but since the parking bylaw is one of the many reports my staff churn out annually, I will reply here.
1. Chalk is old school. Unless your town is trapped in 1984, they got rid of chalk long ago. Photo recognition software allows an officer to take an image of your license plate and have it logged into a database that will churn out where the plate was last logged, and whether the GPS coordinates match. I know - what if I moved and came back! You can prove that in court.
2. If your honkin big-ass thunderbuggy with full toolbox and Billy-Bob muddin' tires is parked so your neighbour can't see out their driveway when they try to back out... you're getting towed. I don't need a kid riding past on a bicycle paying your parking fine with his life.
3. Similarly, if your rusty jalopnik plumber-sticker totin' oil leakin' saggy bumper sportin' work truck is making a mess of the road, its outta there.
4. Also similarly, if your tailgate eagle sticker is all someone can see when they pull up to a stop bar at an adjacent intersection, and the shotgun rack in the back window only makes it harder to see through your vehicle, then that truck's gotta go.
All these things represent a safety concern to the town on one level or another, and using nicer words, they all show up in our bylaws. We have a functional intersection definition that protects against parking within 30m on the minor road leg of an intersection and within 60m on the major road. If you fall within that distance and you park a vehicle, you're gonna have a bad day.
-
The HOA harrassment probably doesn't come from nowhere, one of your neighbours probably made a call to the HOA office. I am sure they have other stuff to do than to patrol for "unmoved" cars.
You greatly underestimate the bored housewife/househusband/busybody. The village (close friend worked there) got complaints for our "luxury" pickup truck that at the time was our nicest vehicle in our non-HOA driveway. This same person would call in about 10 complaints at a time, and they'd be all across the town.
-
And I have to ask: why do you hate Seattle? I have nothing but good memories from my college years, and have always enjoyed going back. Anything from downtown to way out in the mountains/islands - it was all good for me, and I may even go back.
It's a dense, overpopulated area with terrible traffic, insane cost of living, and a political system that can't see past "screw the rich techie scum" as a method of doing anything.
The entitlement mentality out here is also insane, and there is a whole lot of people who love to tell other people what they can and cannot do.
It's not a good fit for us. At all. A lot of people apparently love it, or at least put up with it, but we're done once our lease is up. I'll take a huge pay cut to leave, and have a radically better quality of life due to radically lower cost of living. And be close to family.
And I'll pay off a home in a few years of our rent out here.
-
The HOA harrassment probably doesn't come from nowhere, one of your neighbours probably made a call to the HOA office. I am sure they have other stuff to do than to patrol for "unmoved" cars.
I'm fairly confident that the new person to the position (who has reminded me multiple times that she's new to the position instead of actually answering any of my questions) has a taste of POWER and is just using it. Passive aggressively, of course, in the Seattle Style.
1. Chalk is old school. Unless your town is trapped in 1984, they got rid of chalk long ago. Photo recognition software allows an officer to take an image of your license plate and have it logged into a database that will churn out where the plate was last logged, and whether the GPS coordinates match. I know - what if I moved and came back! You can prove that in court.
If it were the city harassing me about parking with actual rules and data, I wouldn't have any problems. They at least define what they're doing and what they expect. I'm fairly confident the current system is "Walk around in the afternoon and see what vehicles don't look like they've moved much since sometime."
-
Actually, the whole Seattle experiment has been a lesson, but that's a different thread.
You're the first I've heard to express discontent about Seattle. I'm planning on moving there. Could you explain what you don't like (aside from your HOA)?
-
You're the first I've heard to express discontent about Seattle. I'm planning on moving there. Could you explain what you don't like (aside from your HOA)?
So, my view of an ideal place to live (which my wife fully agrees with because she grew up in that place), which we're working on accomplishing, is 10+ acres, a nice garden, and neighbors who either don't care what I'm working on, or are happy to come over and lend a hand with whatever bit of machinery I'm working on in my spare time. The proper view of (for instance) a project car is "Oh, hey, cool, what are you doing with that?" and not "Why do you have a car with no engine in it? When will you move it?"
We're also both Christian and conservative. Not drug users. Prefer to spend less than we make, by a large margin. We embrace our God-given gender roles (when we were dating, I'd work on her car and she'd cook me dinner, and we both preferred our sides of that exchange, as an example). So, in a nutshell, "terribly offensive" to the Seattle mentality.
What are you looking for in Seattle and why are you planning to move to this corner of the country?
If you're moving here for tech work, and are willing to fully embrace the insanity that is downtown Seattle (live in a tiny downtown apartment for about half your takehome wages, not own a car, take the busses, walk, or bike everywhere, not admit you work for a tech company because everyone around you feels you're destroying the unique character of the area, feel that an ideal night is standing in line somewhere to spend money, believe that the number of different restaurants and bars around you is a primary consideration in how good an area is, and probably reject as many gender/sexual orientation stereotypes as you possibly can), then you might like it.
If you're planning to live on the east side, homes are stupidly expensive (400k is about as cheap as you'll find unless you're way north or south with a 45 minute+ commute), the traffic more resembles a parking lot than roads (but if you want to get somewhere, good news - 405 will soon have HOV-or-pay-absurd-toll lanes that you can pay for instead of sitting in traffic with the peons), and the cost of living is generally silly.
If you decide to live somewhere with a sane amount of land or reasonable housing prices, excellent! You'll be looking at an hour+ commute to your job, worse if it's raining. But, hey, you can join the EV owners who are incredibly smug about how awesome EVs are for sitting in barely moving traffic.
It seems to be really quite popular out here to view small businesses as "the enemy." Also, large businesses are, of course, pure evil. But, you'd better campaign for high minimum wage, since it's unaffordable to live here otherwise (apparently). Be sure to imply all small business owners are filthy rich and they only reason they're not paying their employees more is so they can hoard their riches. If they say something like, "My wife and I work 60 hour weeks here, barely make a thing, and the wage increases will drive us out of business since we won't be able to afford our employees," be sure to go on about how that's awesome and those businesses failing will make room for a better run business that can be profitable (somehow).
Also, "techie scum" is ruining the area. Or something.
It's just a very silly area. You can make a lot of money with the tech companies, but unless you're working for a tech company, it's quite difficult to live out here. It's a fairly land-constrained area with a huge flood of people moving in from all over, so that puts upward pressure on prices, as do the tech wages. The infrastructure (roads, public transit, etc) simply cannot handle the number of people out here.
The skiing/snowboarding is OK (not this past winter... no snow to speak of), but the lift lines are sort of nuts. I learned to snowboard in Colorado, and the lift lines were never a problem. Here, you can be standing in a lift line for 20-30 minutes at most of the mountains in the area.
On the plus side for many people (I don't care one bit), marijuana is legal and there are plenty of pot stores around. I hear they're quite successful. It will still interfere with you getting hired a lot of places, though.
There are also many good microbrews out of the area - if you're an IPA lover, you'll have your choice of wonderful hoppy beers.
I've lived a number of different places, and Seattle is, by far, the least favorite place of mine. I won't miss it a bit when I leave.
-
Wow, dude, I was silently commiserating with you and taking your story as a warning to never convince myself I could hack it in an urban/dense suburban area (I'm a rural type too), but you had to go off on the God-given gender roles bit.
To everyone else who's reading and happens to love Seattle/urban areas, I promise not all of us who prefer the country are that backwards...
-
Well, feel free to ignore that part, then. The rest of it still stands. I like how you then immediately frame it as me being "backwards."
It's relevant to our dislike of the area.
I know plenty of people who love it out here, or at least tolerate it.
-
There are also many good microbrews out of the area - if you're an IPA lover, you'll have your choice of wonderful hoppy beers.
Because of the nature of your post, I can't tell if you are dissing IPAs or loving them. Certainly, they also have other beer no?
-
There are also many good microbrews out of the area - if you're an IPA lover, you'll have your choice of wonderful hoppy beers.
Because of the nature of your post, I can't tell if you are dissing IPAs or loving them. Certainly, they also have other beer no?
Sorry, I was trying to list the good stuff at the end.
I love IPAs. Especially the ultra-extreme-punny-hoptastic ones (an IPA with a name that's a pun on hops is usually a really good sign I'll like it).
-
Um, I love the city. Yes, it's expensive but many large cities are. It's not filled with techie scum as most of my friends are the artsy type.
If you want land go west or north. You can't expect to have a lot of land in the middle of an urban area.
Pot *just* became legal so there aren't many pot shops here at all. perhaps the OP has one nearby that colors his perception.
Actually it seems like the OP lives in an entirely different city.
Maybe there are two Seattles.
-
Wow, quite a lot to slog through here Syonyk... One thought:
If the HOA cannot PROVE that you're violating a specific bylaw yet they keep pursuing the issue, then couldn't you sue THEM for harassment?
-
Um, I love the city. Yes, it's expensive but many large cities are. It's not filled with techie scum as most of my friends are the artsy type.
And what do your friends think of Amazon employees? It's not *filled* with tech types, but the general mentality seems to be that the tech types are ruining the area, by... something. Bidding up apartments, or causing yuppie bars to replace dives, or something. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.
Pot *just* became legal so there aren't many pot shops here at all. perhaps the OP has one nearby that colors his perception.
Yes. I do. And hear about it regularly from my coworkers.
-
If the HOA cannot PROVE that you're violating a specific bylaw yet they keep pursuing the issue, then couldn't you sue THEM for harassment?
Possibly. They don't seem too interested in continuing to pursue the issue, at least right now. And if they do continue to cause problems for me, I have an email thread in which none of my very specific questions about parking were answered, so they'll have a hard time claiming that they'd given me any notice about what the expectations were.
-
Maybe there are two Seattles.
Traditional gender role Seattle and gender non-conforming Seattle?
-
I forgot to mention how "open minded" and "progressive" many Seattleites like to think themselves. Unless you disagree with their pet priorities. Then you're a terrible person and a blight on the area and other such wonderful things.
-
Openmindedness does not have to extend to legitimately harmful opinions.
I have zero issues with you and your wife filling traditional gender roles. My husband and I do mostly the same -- he does the lawn, I cook, etc. Mainly because his idea of cooking is microwaving a hot dog or putting a frozen pizza in the oven.
However, my issue is with the fact that you referred to these personal preferences as "God given gender roles." This implies that having any preferences which do not fit your born gender is unnatural and lesser. Uh, no thanks.
I'm pretty sure you actually realize the issue with that view point, considering you refer to them as gender stereotypes later in your post.
-
Maybe there are two Seattles.
Yes, and one of them is a suburban hell!
I love the area as well, but live in Tacoma where the cost of living is MUCH less than seattle. It might even have that rough blue collar feel the OP is looking for.
-
Openmindedness does not have to extend to legitimately harmful opinions.
...
However, my issue is with the fact that you referred to these personal preferences as "God given gender roles." This implies that having any preferences which do not fit your born gender is unnatural and lesser. Uh, no thanks.
So the fact that I believe God created males and females as equally valued but significantly different, filling complementary roles, is a "legitimately harmful opinion" that I'm not allowed to have according to you, even though the scope of that is limited to my immediate family? Huh.
I really don't care what other people do. It's their lives to live as they see fit. Anyway, you make my point nicely for me - thank you.
I love the area as well, but live in Tacoma where the cost of living is MUCH less than seattle. It might even have that rough blue collar feel the OP is looking for.
Tacoma is quite reasonable. As is Renton, Covington, Kent, etc.
Unfortunately, those areas are a ~1hr commute each way from my job, which I refuse to do. If I move further away from my job, it becomes not worth it to me to commute. I'm here for a job, and if I'm going to move far enough away that I'm not going to stay with that job, I'll just move all the way over to near family in Idaho and be a whole lot happier.
-
I am really interested in where you live. You say seattle, but have an HOA in a SFR. I have not heard of this, only HOAs in condo buildings.
-
I'm over in Kirkland, as a specific location. Seattle identifies the general corner of the country (Washington, west of the mountains).
-
I'm over in Kirkland, as a specific location. Seattle identifies the general corner of the country (Washington, west of the mountains).
Uh, no...
I don't think people in Granite Falls or Index have much in common with your typical seattle yuppie.
I worked in kirkland, even I thought it sucked!
-
Fair enough. It's hard to know the proper level of precision to use - I grew up in "Chicagoland," which is the term for the entire metro area, and most people know where Chicago is. The actual town only matters if people are familiar with the area.
Anyway, yes, Kirkland is the specific location, and I've yet to really find anything I like about it.
-
Ah, Well I wouldn't want to live in Kirkland either. :)
-
Openmindedness does not have to extend to legitimately harmful opinions.
...
However, my issue is with the fact that you referred to these personal preferences as "God given gender roles." This implies that having any preferences which do not fit your born gender is unnatural and lesser. Uh, no thanks.
So the fact that I believe God created males and females as equally valued but significantly different, filling complementary roles, is a "legitimately harmful opinion" that I'm not allowed to have according to you, even though the scope of that is limited to my immediate family? Huh.
I really don't care what other people do. It's their lives to live as they see fit. Anyway, you make my point nicely for me - thank you.
I actually live on the exact opposite side of the country (Northeast) and the closest I've ever been to Seattle is Salt Lake City, so I'm really not proving your point about your neighbors.
If you have a daughter, are you going to encourage her to foster skills that facilitate entry into a competitive STEM field or are you going to encourage her to foster skills that would make her a great teacher or social worker?
Sorry, but in my book that would be influencing another individual's life with your personal opinions, despite what that individual may actually prefer.
Not to mention the fact that your views surely influence your voting patterns and your charitable giving, and perhaps even subconsciously impact your interactions with coworkers, people you supervise and/or hire, tradespeople you employ, etc etc.
So yeah, you're surely entitled to your sexist, archaic opinion, but I'm also entitled to call you out on it. Especially because there's no such thing as an opinion that truly doesn't impact anyone else.
To avoid getting too off topic, my original sentiment was that you should tell your HOA to screw off and do whatever was minimally necessary to get them off your back until you move. I think people who have always lived in a very suburban/urban lifestyle have a very hard time grasping the utility of a truck and there's no reason for you to listen to that chorus if you're moving back to the country in only a few years.
-
Only thing it's really got going for it is the proximity to the lake.
I lived in San Francisco for a period and had many similar thoughts as you do here, apart from the god/jesus stuff. What I realized after I moved was that I was looking for any chance to criticize the city and it was making me a very bitter and unhappy person. Open your eyes to the beauty of the area, ignore the haters, and just try to enjoy your time here. After all, it will be over soon as you stated.
Now that I think of it we may have already had this conversation in another thread.
-
If you have a daughter, are you going to encourage her to foster skills that facilitate entry into a competitive STEM field or are you going to encourage her to foster skills that would make her a great teacher or social worker?
I'm not entirely sure where you got, from my statements, that I don't support women in tech. I'm happy to encourage her in whatever she feels like doing.
I lived in San Francisco for a period and had many similar thoughts as you do here, apart from the god/jesus stuff. What I realized after I moved was that I was looking for any chance to criticize the city and it was making me a very bitter and unhappy person. Open your eyes to the beauty of the area, ignore the haters, and just try to enjoy your time here. After all, it will be over soon as you stated.
Now that I think of it we may have already had this conversation in another thread.
Now that I don't have to bike on the street as much (a rails-to-trails path finally opened a few years behind schedule), I'm quite a bit happier with fewer drivers trying to kill me on a weekly basis. Nearly getting run into ~2x (literally, cars just pulling into the bike lane without looking, or cars deciding to drift into it when stopping in traffic, etc) a month when biking in the rain wasn't helping my happiness with the area any.
I don't recall the conversation in another thread, though "people unhappy with Seattle" is hardly a unique thing.
-
I actually do not like it when people park their cars(especially those huge trucks) along the curb for a long time. It simply obstructs traffic. Of course, if one does not have a drive way or garage, that is different story. My HOA has a rule against street parking, which is not strictly enforced. But it works.
In some small countries like Japan. space is at a premium. So in most residential areas, street parking is strictly prohibited.
-
If you have a daughter, are you going to encourage her to foster skills that facilitate entry into a competitive STEM field or are you going to encourage her to foster skills that would make her a great teacher or social worker?
I'm not entirely sure where you got, from my statements, that I don't support women in tech. I'm happy to encourage her in whatever she feels like doing.
I lived in San Francisco for a period and had many similar thoughts as you do here, apart from the god/jesus stuff. What I realized after I moved was that I was looking for any chance to criticize the city and it was making me a very bitter and unhappy person. Open your eyes to the beauty of the area, ignore the haters, and just try to enjoy your time here. After all, it will be over soon as you stated.
Now that I think of it we may have already had this conversation in another thread.
Now that I don't have to bike on the street as much (a rails-to-trails path finally opened a few years behind schedule), I'm quite a bit happier with fewer drivers trying to kill me on a weekly basis. Nearly getting run into ~2x (literally, cars just pulling into the bike lane without looking, or cars deciding to drift into it when stopping in traffic, etc) a month when biking in the rain wasn't helping my happiness with the area any.
I don't recall the conversation in another thread, though "people unhappy with Seattle" is hardly a unique thing.
Well as far as biking goes Idaho is not better! On a bike trip I crossed Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and part of Wyoming and Idaho was by far the WORST....absolutely terrible drivers in that state. And if the number of empty beer cans was any indication of the mental state of the drivers then I am lucky to be alive!
Is this your first time biking to work/in traffic? Your issues are not unique to this area.
-
No, but in Idaho, I'll be able to work from home and not have to go through heavy traffic to get to an office.
I biked extensively in Iowa, motorcycled extensively in Albuquerque, and have been bicycling for 3 years here. I /think/ I finally added enough neon and enough front lighting that people finally see me. I've been accused of looking like a freight train at night, though. This area is the worst. People are not used to bicycles for some reason and they don't even look before taking over the bike lane. Or, half the time, don't even seem to realize they're in it.
-
It seems to me that you are deep in the downward spiral of criticism and bitterness. The truck/HOA issue (while legitimate) is just another thing you can complain about, criticize, and us to reinforce those negative feelings you have. Beyond that, there is something wrong with everything, and it is really easy for you to see more and more things wrong as you reinforce those feelings. If you are deep in this state of mind when you move back to Idaho it will not magically disappear, trust me, I have been in the exact position. I thought moving would help me, and it really didn't. The only thing that did was my outlook on things.
-
You're the first I've heard to express discontent about Seattle. I'm planning on moving there. Could you explain what you don't like (aside from your HOA)?
What are you looking for in Seattle and why are you planning to move to this corner of the country?
If you're moving here for tech work, and are willing to fully embrace the insanity that is downtown Seattle (live in a tiny downtown apartment for about half your takehome wages, not own a car, take the busses, walk, or bike everywhere, not admit you work for a tech company because everyone around you feels you're destroying the unique character of the area, feel that an ideal night is standing in line somewhere to spend money, believe that the number of different restaurants and bars around you is a primary consideration in how good an area is, and probably reject as many gender/sexual orientation stereotypes as you possibly can), then you might like it.
I'd like to move there for all sorts of good reasons! From what I've heard, people are generally pretty nice, even if they all have similar progressive views. It's a much less religious area - which matches my atheist take on life (an issue for many in Indianapolis). Seattle is a 3-hour drive to 3 national parks. I care much more about hiking than snowboarding, thankfully.
And I just graduated with a degree in CS. Moving should give a great return on investment. And though I grew up in a rural setting, I handle minimalist city living pretty well.
On the plus side for many people (I don't care one bit), marijuana is legal and there are plenty of pot stores around. I hear they're quite successful. It will still interfere with you getting hired a lot of places, though.
There are also many good microbrews out of the area - if you're an IPA lover, you'll have your choice of wonderful hoppy beers.
I don't drink or smoke, but the general open-mindedness of the area is appealing.
I think we approach the city from different backgrounds and stages of life, and though living there sounds great to me, I can see why you find it suffocating. I just wanna go where I'm accepted and can find friends.
-
If that's what you're looking for and you're fine spending 40% of your salary on rent, enjoy.
-
As an anti-Christianity type of person... I think people are giving the OP a lot of flak for things he hasn't really said.
Lots of judgement.
If parking on the street is legal, it's legal, no need to worry about snowploughs if they don't apply. No need to worry about through traffic on residential streets.
"God given" gender roles is complete and utter bullshit (I mean, women are clearly made to be better mothers than men, men tend to be better at lifting heavy things, but that's about as far as it goes), but the rest... He owns a truck for his hobby/side business/whatever, who cares? He bikes to work, and uses the truck to pull heavy things! Good for him, better than the hundreds of trucks in this town that carry literally nothing around...
Here, there is 'winter no on street parking'. The End Full Stop
If there isn't where OP parks it is not relevant to the discussion.
/shrug
Interesting reading. I'm really curious as to what it is about the OP that seems to have triggered so many antagonistic responses.
-
As an anti-Christianity type of person... I think people are giving the OP a lot of flak for things he hasn't really said.
Lots of judgement.
If parking on the street is legal, it's legal, no need to worry about snowploughs if they don't apply. No need to worry about through traffic on residential streets.
"God given" gender roles is complete and utter bullshit (I mean, women are clearly made to be better mothers than men, men tend to be better at lifting heavy things, but that's about as far as it goes), but the rest... He owns a truck for his hobby/side business/whatever, who cares? He bikes to work, and uses the truck to pull heavy things! Good for him, better than the hundreds of trucks in this town that carry literally nothing around...
Here, there is 'winter no on street parking'. The End Full Stop
If there isn't where OP parks it is not relevant to the discussion.
/shrug
Interesting reading. I'm really curious as to what it is about the OP that seems to have triggered so many antagonistic responses.
Ironically I would agree with you, until his God-given gender roles BS. I did not post again, because someone else already said what I felt was needed as a response and because, honestly, I am tired of having to argue that I and other women should be treated as equals. As I read your post, it came to me, a reason perhaps and someone else said it. He seems very unhappy and people do respond to that.
-
Openmindedness does not have to extend to legitimately harmful opinions.
...
However, my issue is with the fact that you referred to these personal preferences as "God given gender roles." This implies that having any preferences which do not fit your born gender is unnatural and lesser. Uh, no thanks.
So the fact that I believe God created males and females as equally valued but significantly different, filling complementary roles, is a "legitimately harmful opinion" that I'm not allowed to have according to you, even though the scope of that is limited to my immediate family? Huh.
I really don't care what other people do. It's their lives to live as they see fit. Anyway, you make my point nicely for me - thank you.
Maybe one of your kids ends up being queer. Hopefully you'll love them all the same. The whole "not in my family" attitude can hurt, though, speaking from experience.
To both threadjack further and get back on topic: Sounds like you have a pretty heavy duty truck. While it won't be possible to do all the time, have you considered just distracting the tow truck driver and towing their truck instead? Otherwise, I think I'd just have the truck pointing in a different direction each day if I were in your situation.
-
...I am tired of having to argue that I and other women should be treated as equals.
You /did/ read what I posted, right? Equal, just not the same? Or are you just going to assume I'm "dog whistling" or something and not saying what I actually believe?
As I read your post, it came to me, a reason perhaps and someone else said it. He seems very unhappy and people do respond to that.
It's a fair assessment. I'm not particularly happy with Seattle. The job is great, the side gig is great, and the rest of it is not much fun at all, especially given that my wife & I moved here from Albuquerque, where the job was fun and our general habit of "touring the entire Southwest on motorcycles and camping in the wilderness frequently" was wonderful. A sunny state with 2 million people is better than a cramped, rainy metro area with 4 million, as it turns out. Had we realized the actual nature of this area before moving, with the traffic (and the impossibility of getting east of the mountains except through yet more traffic), we wouldn't have moved up here at all.
To both threadjack further and get back on topic: Sounds like you have a pretty heavy duty truck. While it won't be possible to do all the time, have you considered just distracting the tow truck driver and towing their truck instead? Otherwise, I think I'd just have the truck pointing in a different direction each day if I were in your situation.
I'm actually fairly certain that a standard tow truck could not tow my truck, due to the weight involved (it's... a really big truck). It's something I've considered. 4WD won't help me since I've got mechanical hubs they can just unlock, but if I park it with the front wheels turned, it'd be pretty much impossible to get out of the neighborhood by towing.
-
Yikes. Note to self: don't mention God around here...
I'm actually fairly certain that a standard tow truck could not tow my truck, due to the weight involved (it's... a really big truck). It's something I've considered. 4WD won't help me since I've got mechanical hubs they can just unlock, but if I park it with the front wheels turned, it'd be pretty much impossible to get out of the neighborhood by towing.
Pick it from the front and skates under the rear tires or just use a flat bed. Everything drags quieter with a little used oil under the tires. Worst case scenario, pick it from the front, drag it, then unbolt the rear drive shaft.
-
Yikes. Note to self: don't mention God around here...
I'm actually fairly certain that a standard tow truck could not tow my truck, due to the weight involved (it's... a really big truck). It's something I've considered. 4WD won't help me since I've got mechanical hubs they can just unlock, but if I park it with the front wheels turned, it'd be pretty much impossible to get out of the neighborhood by towing.
Pick it from the front and skates under the rear tires or just use a flat bed. Everything drags quieter with a little used oil under the tires. Worst case scenario, pick it from the front, drag it, then unbolt the rear drive shaft.
You know, as I was reading his post about how big his penis truck was I was thinking all those things, and the image of some of the highway wreckers was coming to mind. Dude, if we can pull apartment buildings down the street, we can move a truck. Even a really big truck.
(http://albertandsonsservices.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/TOW_TRUCK_CROPPED1.23182336_large.JPG)
-
Really, my major takeaway from this is that HOAs are, in fact, as bad as I'd feared, and we're not city types. Or even suburb types. And that moving to Seattle was a very large mistake, and despite the awesome job I moved for, moving to an area that is not compatible with who my wife & I are is dumb. Also that people who insist Seattle is amazing haven't lived here since about 2000.
HOAs are indeed evil. (Did you know they started out as a tool to enforce segregation? True story!)
However, the issues you've been having have very little to do with living in a city. An actual urban / inner-ring suburban neighborhood, with small single-family houses built before 1950 or so, will generally not have an HOA and let you do whatever the fuck you want (up to the limits of the city ordinances). My house was built in 1948, I have 3 cars parked in front of it (two in the driveway and a pickup truck in the street), and it's perfectly fine. I have a friend a couple of streets over whose house is bright purple. I could tear out my lawn and put a vegetable garden in my front yard if I wanted. I could even paint polka-dots on my house and nobody would care! (Or maybe they would care, but they wouldn't be able to do anything about it.) I've got neighbors who raise chickens in their backyard, neighbors who have woodworking shops in their detached garages, neighbors with crazy sculptures or landscaping, etc. It's great!
These all sounds like great arguments for and HOA. We have one. They plow the extensive bike/walking paths in our area within hours of snow, and remove fallen trees immediately. They maintain bridges and playgrounds on the same trails. The neighborhood close to us is not in the HOA. One house has 3 partially dismantled cars on his lawn along his neighbor's back yard, and an overflowing hoarder garage/driveway. There are old sailboats and rotting sheds in people's yards etc etc. Fact is, most people are inconsiderate, lazy jerks. Some rules that keep them from piling shit up to the border of my property, or making potential house buyers run in fear is good and necessary. I didn't give much thought to the HOA when I moved here, but seeing some of these gypsy camp properties (and my MIL's "old toilets in the backyard" neighbor) I'm not sure I'd want to live anywhere without one.
-
I don't think you could get one of those semi wreckers in the neighborhood.
I'm sure it can be towed, just possibly not by the normal ones that tow cars. They'd need something bigger.
And what's wrong with cars in sometimes back yard? I really don't understand the "I get to tell other people what they can and cannot do with their property" thing.
-
So, my view of an ideal place to live...
(etc)
Yeah, I would agree that the Seattle suburbs are a poor fit for you. Wanna trade places? >.<
This is starting to sound more like an issue of expectations than anything else. I really do hope you can get through the last of your time there, with minimal drama, and get somewhere that makes you happy.
-
I don't think you could get one of those semi wreckers in the neighborhood.
I'm sure it can be towed, just possibly not by the normal ones that tow cars. They'd need something bigger.
And what's wrong with cars in sometimes back yard? I really don't understand the "I get to tell other people what they can and cannot do with their property" thing.
Because try as you might, if you live in a reasonably dense suburb your actions on your (external) property impact your neighbors. If you have a rusting POS in your yard it looks bad and lower the value of your neighbor's property, especially once the "broken window" effect starts and everyone is doing it. My MIL's street is a great example of this where it's slowly degrading. Not to mention that maybe their yard faces yours and they don't want to look at a scrap yard if they have guests over for a BBQ. Just a few possibilities.
When people live somewhat densely everyone need to be considerate. Most people are inconsiderate a-holes when left to their own devices so we have zoning, rules and HOAs. If you want to live in a rural area 3 miles from your neighbor, sure you can do whatever you want.
The move truck rule does sound pretty silly, but our HOA have some (IMO) perfectly reasonable rules about what you can an cannot do to the exterior of your house, and you have to get sign-off from your neighbors as well which has never been a problem for us. So I don't think it's true to say "HOAs suck".
-
I think your HOA is trying to keep people from long-term storage on the street. If you don't use it regularly, then you are storing your truck on city streets. Well, maybe I'll just go get my lawn furniture and store it there so that I can free up some space in the garage. Or maybe I'll park my boat on its trailer in front of the house instead of paying to store it in the off-season. Other people don't want to have to look at someone else's crap, so rules are created to keep things neat and tidy. As long as you're not breaking rules, then you get to give the middle finger to all of your neighbors by keeping that eyesore on the street. Some will care more than others. so what, you're moving! Let it go.
To the poster who was curious why there was so much anger directed at the OP: for me it's because there were easy solutions provided in the first 5 responses, but the OP found a problem with each solution. Every option was met with an objection. So it came off as complainypants and the rest of the forum just jumped on to punish this response.
As for me, I can't turn away. I have to keep coming back to see the carnage unfold. Maybe even throw in a kick or punch when I can. it makes me feel better about the mess in my own garage. ;)
-
I think your HOA is trying to keep people from long-term storage on the street. If you don't use it regularly, then you are storing your truck on city streets. Well, maybe I'll just go get my lawn furniture and store it there so that I can free up some space in the garage. Or maybe I'll park my boat on its trailer in front of the house instead of paying to store it in the off-season. Other people don't want to have to look at someone else's crap, so rules are created to keep things neat and tidy. As long as you're not breaking rules, then you get to give the middle finger to all of your neighbors by keeping that eyesore on the street. Some will care more than others. so what, you're moving! Let it go.
To the poster who was curious why there was so much anger directed at the OP: for me it's because there were easy solutions provided in the first 5 responses, but the OP found a problem with each solution. Every option was met with an objection. So it came off as complainypants and the rest of the forum just jumped on to punish this response.
As for me, I can't turn away. I have to keep coming back to see the carnage unfold. Maybe even throw in a kick or punch when I can. it makes me feel better about the mess in my own garage. ;)
+1
The OP is quite complainy pants... I cant stand seatle... I need the truck to haul FIL stuff, that I might buy my self in a few years, I cant sell the motor bikes because I may ride them again.
Mustachian is about doing things the hard way and figuring shit out. He asked for our reply's got good answers, that he did not want to hear. and the thread blew up on him.
1. Sell the truck - maybe to the FIL. If you decide to pursue the classic car route, buy another.
2. Sell the bikes - you are going to be a Dad. Safety issues aside, you will not have time to ride until the kids are older.
It is not very mustachian to have a garage so full of stuff you cant park in it... just saying
-
Yeah, I would agree that the Seattle suburbs are a poor fit for you. Wanna trade places? >.<
I certainly agree they're a terrible fit for us. I wish someone had told us this instead of just getting airy comments about how amazing Seattle is and how we'll love it up here, there's so much to do! It really came down to "Well, the company is going to be nice on my resume, and people keep insisting we'll like the area, so may as well give it a shot."
I'm not particularly interested in trading, since we have a place to go (complete with plenty of scrap heaps and old cars/trucks - literally), but if you want a landlord who will seem to hate you for undefined reasons (largely related to our "rodent problem," I think - which one of our neighbors spent 2 years insisting we had, and I spent 2 years insisting that the untouched bag of rice and ramen on the floor of our pantry says we don't have a rodent problem in the house), change the contract after you've signed your side of it, try to charge you late fees for payments that aren't late according to the lease... I can certainly point you in the right direction.
I think your HOA is trying to keep people from long-term storage on the street. If you don't use it regularly, then you are storing your truck on city streets. Well, maybe I'll just go get my lawn furniture and store it there so that I can free up some space in the garage. Or maybe I'll park my boat on its trailer in front of the house instead of paying to store it in the off-season. Other people don't want to have to look at someone else's crap, so rules are created to keep things neat and tidy. As long as you're not breaking rules, then you get to give the middle finger to all of your neighbors by keeping that eyesore on the street. Some will care more than others. so what, you're moving! Let it go.
You seem to have missed the part where I use it regularly, just not "driving to work during the day so someone walking around at noon sees it's not there."
... and, really, if you want to park your boat in front of your house, I don't care. I'm far more likely to offer to help you to get it in the water when it's nice, and help do whatever work it needs than to complain that you're parking a boat out there. But, as is probably obvious, I'm not a typical HOA type.
To the poster who was curious why there was so much anger directed at the OP: for me it's because there were easy solutions provided in the first 5 responses, but the OP found a problem with each solution. Every option was met with an objection. So it came off as complainypants and the rest of the forum just jumped on to punish this response.
Yes, and I'm learning that this forum has a bit of groupthink going on, and that "I have a large truck, don't drive it to work, but use it as a large truck fairly regularly" is not, apparently, considered a valid reason to own a large truck.
Especially given that we're moving in a year, "Sell all the things!" is a significant money losing strategy as well, since buying new-to-me used vehicles generally involves 6 months of parts and repairs, and none of our current vehicles are in that unknown state (I'm quite familiar with it).
-
Agree with dyker - mostly I keep tune in because this is put in the perfect folder, but I still can't figure out whether the OP is more anti-mustachian, or the HOA who are actually advising a more mustachian course than the OP who expects us all to defend him.
Also since I am part of a planning committee, its fun to see how these things unfold once one or two people think they are 'special' and the rules they agreed to by moving into a controlled area no longer apply.
If only this were in a historical preservation zone...
Uh - yeah. This is a groupthink. That's the beauty of it. There is a formula here that works. Its why we're all here.
-
1. Sell the truck - maybe to the FIL. If you decide to pursue the classic car route, buy another.
Ignoring, of course, the frequent use I make of the truck for things other than antique cars. Hauling server racks and equipment for a company I'm part owner of, furniture, helping other people move (which I recognize is suspiciously close to "charity," another dirty word here, apparently...), etc.
2. Sell the bikes - you are going to be a Dad. Safety issues aside, you will not have time to ride until the kids are older.
Worst case, 3-4 years until a kid is old enough to ride on the back of motorcycles. Plus, I do actually use them to get myself around if I'm going somewhere by myself that's outside bicycle range and I don't have to haul anything but me. Especially if I'm going over into the city, taking a motorcycle is easier than a car, since I stand a chance of parking it somewhere.
It is not very mustachian to have a garage so full of stuff you cant park in it... just saying
*shrug* It's full of motorcycles and packing materials for a side gig that makes me a few grand a year in selling other people's stuff on eBay for them. There's nowhere else to put said packing materials, and I ship large stuff quite regularly, so I suppose I could give that up too in the process of eliminating everything I do that requires space...
Really, again, my mistake was in thinking a very small single car garage would be sufficient garage space. We looked at a few other units that had more garage space, and I should have gone with one of those.
-
Also since I am part of a planning committee, its fun to see how these things unfold once one or two people think they are 'special' and the rules they agreed to by moving into a controlled area no longer apply.
Point of clarification: Said rule did not exist when I moved in 3 years ago. Said rule arguably doesn't exist today, since I'm pretty sure "a sentence on a new website" does not meet the requirements for a change of the existing HOA rules, which make no mention of this.
-
I certainly agree they're a terrible fit for us. I wish someone had told us this instead of just getting airy comments about how amazing Seattle is and how we'll love it up here, there's so much to do! It really came down to "Well, the company is going to be nice on my resume, and people keep insisting we'll like the area, so may as well give it a shot."
I'm not particularly interested in trading, since we have a place to go (complete with plenty of scrap heaps and old cars/trucks - literally), but if you want a landlord who will seem to hate you for undefined reasons (largely related to our "rodent problem," I think - which one of our neighbors spent 2 years insisting we had, and I spent 2 years insisting that the untouched bag of rice and ramen on the floor of our pantry says we don't have a rodent problem in the house), change the contract after you've signed your side of it, try to charge you late fees for payments that aren't late according to the lease... I can certainly point you in the right direction.
Haha... was just tongue in cheek but I do think you'd like my area. You can buy acreage 20 minutes out for very cheap, and sling your toys around however you see fit... yet tech/gov jobs downtown pay almost like DC. It's also culturally much closer to your indicated preferences.
As for landlords... I'm hoping to never have one again, but especially not like that one. S/he sounds like a fucking nightmare.
And just for the record, I totally feel your pain w/ HOA... ours has sporadically enforced a very vague nighttime parking restriction over time, and very selectively as well. The rich bitch down the road can park a bus-size RV nearly blocking the road for a week at a time without hassles, but we've had tow trucks at 3am for a one-time overnighter, and tickets posted just after sunset citing dinner guests for "overnight parking". I don't know what it is but even the most well-intentioned HOAs always seem to devolve into petty bickering and end up as pawns in disputes between asshole neighbors who can't get along. We moved out and turned that house into a rental, and will never buy in HOA-land again.
-
Yes, and I'm learning that this forum has a bit of groupthink going on...
So, I don't have a dog in this fight, really, but I wanted to just chime in on the "Groupthink" thing. I think that's a reasonable thing to expect from a forum where everyone is here primarily because they are working on having a "Mustachian" lifestyle. If you went through and read all of the MMM blog entries from beginning to end, I think the conclusion that you would draw is that MMM would probably have told you/facepunched you in exactly the same ways as everyone else here has re the vehicles, the crammed to the gills garage, etc. Though he might have thought the HOA's arbitrariness is pretty ridiculous.
Point being, if you go to a friend whom you know hates X, and you ask him if you should buy X, he's (predictably) will say, "NO freaking way!" If you don't want Mustachian responses, don't post on a Mustachian forum. (Though I will grant that you weren't specifically asking for advice in your OP, you were just venting. And for the record, I think HOA rules are often ridiculous, arbitrary, and worthy of severe mockery.)
-
Fair.
Though the garage is not stuffed to the gills. It just doesn't have space for a car.
My point was mostly the absurdity of arbitrary rules interfering with bicycling to work. However, after deciding to ignore the person involved since they can't tell me what they expect or are enforcing, I'm still able to bike to work.
They did literally tell me I should drive instead of biking, though. Which is what spawned the post.
I still hold that a truck is not a problem if it's used as a truck and not a commuter vehicle, though.
-
Lets ask some questions in a supportive tone then...
1. If you sold the truck, or the crap, how much money would you make on the sale?
2. Where would the money go?
3. How much would your life change without the truck/crap.
4. If the truck were replaced with a small car and a small trailer could you accomplish what you do today with the truck?
Believe it or not, I went through a very similar decision process about a year ago. Here is what our driveway looked like before we discovered this blog:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-upMzgKtpcvs/UT3NKse7-KI/AAAAAAAAAjc/BZwwUR0fhTA/s1600/FB_IMG_13629320597313639-1188863852.jpg)
Yes, thats a 2500 series suburban with a magnaflow exhaust. Beside it is a 25 foot sailboat. There is the Buick in the picture, but you can't see my car - a Volvo C70 convertible. Behind that is a beautiful 2 car garage which is so full of crap you can't turn around in it. The crap in the garage is a complete woodshop with router tables and table saws and planers and drill presses and on and on. The other side is full of car repair stuff. ramps and jacks and axle stands and tools and such.
Now sailing is my passion, woodworking is my hobby, and repairing stuff is a necessity. I need my truck to move my boat around. Its a big boat, and even that truck is only marginally suited to the task. Every weekend I'm out on lake Ontario in regattas and on cruises. And I'm pretty good at it. But we're losing money, and someone called into bylaw on us complaining about our collection of stuff.
As I said earlier, I write bylaws for a living, so i knew we weren't actually breaking a bylaw by having the boat there. I knew exactly where our property line was and kept the overhang right at the property line, with a foot between the boat and house. Letter of the law.
But I don't want to be an asshat neighbour, so when the complaint came in, I moved the boat back to the yacht club and paid fees for storage. Then I found myself without income for a month, looked for ways to save cash so I'd never suffer again and found this blog.
Almost immediately I sold the boat.
Selling the boat freed up the truck, so I sold it next.
And the Volvo.
Without the Boat, the truck, and the Volvo, I rarely needed the tools. I kept some of them, just in case, and sold off the specialty stuff (boating equipment). I still have a couple anchors and stuff around though. Need to sell it off this summer.
I bought an antique Mercedes Diesel (240D) to replace the Volvo, but it sucked in winter, so I also got a Chev Sonic. And a bumper hitch for the Buick and roofracks. Now I can still go to the lumber yard. I use the small cars to deliver pizzas in the time that I freed up when I quit sailing, and the cars were completely paid for in pizza money plus a tax return.
I still get calls from the guys at the yacht club - now I have open invites to sail other people's boats whenever I want to. And some have asked me to be on standby as skippers for their boats when they can't make it to a regatta. My cost has gone from $800 a month in slip fees etc. to a beer and burger after the race.
Now I know you like owning a truck, but you can turn this around if you want. A small car will be fine for runs to Home Depot. A trailer rents for $20 a day around here. You can buy one at Lowes for $350 to cart furniture around and keep that business going. http://www.lowes.com/pd_253168-15476-3.5X5LSHS_4294641556__?productId=3680952&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo= (http://www.lowes.com/pd_253168-15476-3.5X5LSHS_4294641556__?productId=3680952&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=)
So am I picking on you for truck ownership? Yes. I've been there very recently, and you don't need it. It sounds like everyone else needs you to own one, but looking out for yourself - YOU can do YOURSELF a favour by not owning it. And twice a year you'll think "man, I could really use a truck for this" - and thats when you can rent one for a day.
IF you make the lifestyle changes, money will follow - after all this a board about money choices, not comfort choices. If you don't want to make a lifestyle change for better money, you should be making this post in a different community.
-
i own a boat and dont have a truck ...
booom bet your mind is blown now.
OP just wanted to be coddled and to have everyone feel sorry for him b/c his HOA changed a rule on him... man up(i know this maybe an issue as the truck still hasnt filled this void) listen to the answers or move on and figure it out your self
no one here will have sympathy for these issues.
-
i own a boat and dont have a truck ...
booom bet your mind is blown now.
I see three possibilities:
1. You're either paying slip fees, paying more for your house to live on the water, or not using your boat enough to be worth it because you'd have to rent a truck every time, all of which are probably more expensive than owning a tow vehicle.
2. You live on it.
3. Or you're just trolling us by talking about your dinghy.
-
Actually I know a lot of guys with boats and no truck. At the club there is a loaner just for guys like you - one of the advantages of being in a yacht club.
Sailing on OPBs means I don't have a truck or trailer or pay club dues, but I still get to go play on the water.
-
HOAs aren't the only one that has rules like this. In my city, you have to move a car every three days. We utilized this rule after a rusting car sat outside of our house for weeks. Then it got a flat tire. After we called and the cops put a warning sticker on it, it was gone in less than 12 hours. It turns out it was the second car of some renter down the block. I never saw it again.
We live in a pretty urban area. Parking isn't really an issue and we have a driveway, but I didn't appreciate having to look at the car for weeks on end. Plus we like to park there sometimes.
We also had to look at a rusted old truck parked in the middle of our next door neighbor's back year. That really sucked. It was there for six months, but I didn't want to alienate our neighbors by turning them in. Evidently the city couldn't see it from the street.
-
1. If you sold the truck, or the crap, how much money would you make on the sale?
If I were to sell the truck and all three motorcycles (which have been reasonably heavily tweaked for our uses), I might get $12k out of everything if I wanted to sell them quickly. Given a few months to sell, I could possibly get $15k. They're really not worth that much (one of the motorcycles has 35k miles on it), as they're "dead brand" bikes - Buell isn't around anymore, so there isn't much demand for them. I've got a pretty good set of spare parts, and there's a lot of commonality across the bikes, so it's not hard for me to keep them going, but that's not true of someone who just buys one of them.
The truck is a '97, so it's not worth /that/ much.
The shipping supplies are salvage (I keep a large percentage of the boxes that things come in, as well as packing peanuts/bubble wrap/packing paper/etc), so I could get rid of them for free, but I'd be increasing cost-per-shipment by $10+/item for large items, or have to stop doing this entirely, which is a few grand a year income for fairly small amounts of work.
2. Where would the money go?
Probably a blend of my Betterment and Lending Club accounts. Maybe a bit into index funds, but I'm trying to move a bunch to Betterment. I might keep a bit in cash for a down payment on a house next year (planning to put about 50% down, maybe a bit less depending on how much it costs to get the septic system rebuilt and what my stock grants are worth at that point). I wouldn't be paying down any debt, as we don't have any (no mortgage currently, no car loans, just a few credit cards paid off in full monthly). It would be a small blip on Mint "available cash/investments," and a probable loss in net worth.
3. How much would your life change without the truck/crap.
For the next year: Not significantly, though I'd have a harder time hauling server racks & such, as I'm the only one in the side business with a long bed and a canopy (surprisingly useful when it's raining). I'd be unable to get to said side gig to assist with server builds and such unless my wife didn't need the car, as it's ~40 miles away (which, if I'm just heading down there to work, I'll take a motorcycle for).
Once we move: It would be a lot more difficult, as my plans for Idaho include moving 20' shipping containers around (office/lab/server rack space, experimentation with sailboat style cabins with highly space-efficient construction instead of the usual cabin in the woods construction), antique cars restoration, a project car (or parting out cars/selling parts on eBay), and possibly repairing/refurbishing construction equipment (Bobcats, light excavators, etc - I like working on engines and such). Lots of heavy things. Also, building a moderate greenhouse, aquaculture beds, and perhaps a biodiesel processing facility, if there's not a local coop I can get involved with. (no, I really don't fit in Seattle)
My wife & I take street motorcycles utterly inappropriate places and intend to continue once $kid is old enough to ride on the back (or in a sidecar - I might refurb a vintage BMW with sidecar or a Ural).
4. If the truck were replaced with a small car and a small trailer could you accomplish what you do today with the truck?
Given that I replaced a Subaru Outback with the truck because the Subaru was unable to do a lot of what I was trying to do with it (which included towing - 1300 lbs through the mountains was pushing it for that car, despite a 2k lb tow rating), it would be a poor replacement, and I would have to either store the trailer in the garage (which would mean I could not fit a car in there, even with a small folding trailer that wouldn't handle a lot of what I need to move), or store it in the overflow parking, which is currently full with no available spots. The small car and trailer would be utterly incapable of doing any of the stuff I plan to do once we move. And half the reason we're moving where we are is so we can play with that type of stuff. I intend to be substantially capable of meeting our own food/energy requirements within a few years of moving.
Now I know you like owning a truck, but you can turn this around if you want. A small car will be fine for runs to Home Depot. A trailer rents for $20 a day around here. You can buy one at Lowes for $350 to cart furniture around and keep that business going.
A U-Haul trailer of significant size is most of the tow rating of a light vehicle (and, mostly, they flat out won't let you tow it with something small - I've tried in the past). A lightweight, cheap Harbor Freight trailer is of questionable use for anything heavy, wears the tires disturbingly quickly, and is still a storage issue.
So am I picking on you for truck ownership? Yes. I've been there very recently, and you don't need it. It sounds like everyone else needs you to own one, but looking out for yourself - YOU can do YOURSELF a favour by not owning it. ANd twice a year you'll think "man, I could really use a truck for this" - and thats when you can rent one for a day.
IF you make the lifestyle changes, money will follow - after all this a board about money choices, not comfort choices. If you don't want to make a lifestyle change for better money, you should be making this post in a different community.
The cost, to me, of keeping a truck, is fairly low. It's paid for, isn't driven that many miles, is holding value quite well (low mileage 7.3s seem to be going up in price, if anything), and I do the maintenance myself, so that's quite cheap. Insurance isn't that much for it either, as it's in the "low miles/infrequently driven" category, my record is clean, and I'm married. My wife & I decided on a truck after an evaluation of what we were actually doing with vehicles, and a long bed truck set up for heavy towing made sense for our long term plans. I was frequently having to make multiple trips with my Subaru to move things (you can't fit that many 4U server shipping boxes in the back), it was a pain to tow with, and was looking suspiciously like it would need a new transmission and engine fairly soon (the previous owner utterly beat the crap out of it, near as I can tell, based on things that were failing or making a lot of noise - the flywheel had serious heat damage when the clutch needed replacement at only 100k miles, the transmission input bearing which takes hard load from aggressive starts was a lot louder than it should be, and the piston slap was pretty bad, which speaks to being driven hard when cold).
We have quite good cashflow and savings already, and live well below our means. Selling a well maintained, low mileage truck (under 100k) to buy another one in about a year would probably be a net loss of $5k+, given the various transaction fees, parts/maintenance I'd have to do on the new vehicle, and the difficulty of finding older, low mileage trucks in Idaho. And rental trucks generally don't come equipped with a 5th wheel hitch, which is pretty much required for any heavy towing (20' shipping containers are 8k lbs tare).
-
You appear to be very into antique cars. Have you checked out the scene in Tacoma and Olympia? There are so many gear heads around here that love wrenching on and fixing up old cars. There are also at least 3 (that I know of) antique car dealerships.
My toothless redneck neighbors always have some junk heap parked in /blocking the alley that they are working on. I think you just happened to move to the wrong part of the sound!
-
i own a boat and dont have a truck ...
booom bet your mind is blown now.
I see three possibilities:
1. You're either paying slip fees, paying more for your house to live on the water, or not using your boat enough to be worth it because you'd have to rent a truck every time, all of which are probably more expensive than owning a tow vehicle.
2. You live on it.
3. Or you're just trolling us by talking about your dinghy.
I live in a lake community - cheapest in my city - maybe in the country. slip lease is 350/year. My house isnt on the water and is one of the cheapest in the neighborhood. 350/year for a slip is much less than ownership costs for a truck. Slips are all community owned and were just 250/year until this year.
-
You appear to be very into antique cars. Have you checked out the scene in Tacoma and Olympia? There are so many gear heads around here that love wrenching on and fixing up old cars. There are also at least 3 (that I know of) antique car dealerships.
I'm familiar with the LaMay museum (and find myself down there somewhat frequently), but not really familiar with much beyond that. Tacoma is an hour south of me in light traffic and "impossible to get to" in the evening after work, unless I want to spend a few hours in traffic.
The reason we don't have anything right now is because I don't have anywhere to work on them. I've considered a vintage motorcycle, but given that I have to move the other motorcycles out into the rain to work on one already, that's not really something I've got space for. It's a very small garage. :(
My toothless redneck neighbors always have some junk heap parked in /blocking the alley that they are working on. I think you just happened to move to the wrong part of the sound!
Unfortunately, my work is in Kirkland, and I'm opposed to hour long commutes, which seems to be what people who live in more rural areas spend each way to get to/from the office. :( I accept that Kirkland is not a great place for us to live.
-
I live in a lake community - cheapest in my city - maybe in the country. slip lease is 350/year. My house isnt on the water and is one of the cheapest in the neighborhood. 350/year for a slip is much less than ownership costs for a truck. Slips are all community owned and were just 250/year until this year.
It may be the cheapest lake community, but it's certainly not the cheapest community (including ones without lakes). You're paying more than just $350/year; it's just that the rest of the cost is hidden in the property value.
Also, I was mostly posting as an excuse to make the dinghy joke anyway.
Unfortunately, my work is in Kirkland, and I'm opposed to hour long commutes, which seems to be what people who live in more rural areas spend each way to get to/from the office. :( I accept that Kirkland is not a great place for us to live.
Is there nowhere in Kirkland with a two-car garage?
-
Is there nowhere in Kirkland with a two-car garage?
There are. Probably another $500-$1000/mo at this point. Not worth it to me. Still planning to leave the whole metro cesspool in a year.
-
I live in a lake community - cheapest in my city - maybe in the country. slip lease is 350/year. My house isnt on the water and is one of the cheapest in the neighborhood. 350/year for a slip is much less than ownership costs for a truck. Slips are all community owned and were just 250/year until this year.
It may be the cheapest lake community, but it's certainly not the cheapest community (including ones without lakes). You're paying more than just $350/year; it's just that the rest of the cost is hidden in the property value.
Also, I was mostly posting as an excuse to make the dinghy joke anyway.
Unfortunately, my work is in Kirkland, and I'm opposed to hour long commutes, which seems to be what people who live in more rural areas spend each way to get to/from the office. :( I accept that Kirkland is not a great place for us to live.
Is there nowhere in Kirkland with a two-car garage?
yeah and its a choice i made i'm not posting on here about how my community keeps giving me tickets when i leave my boat in my driveway and the keep threatening to to tow it bc they have a rule against boats in drive ways except for 3 months of the year. i know i pay some extra money but its worth it to me as wakeboarding is a passion of mine and i do it as affordably as i possibly can in my area. and also saying you dont have to have a truck or even live in a lake community to own a boat. slips can be leased in my city for 1k on public lakes. still cheaper than owning a truck and trailering to the lake.
If the OP HAS TO HAVE HIS BIG TRUCK dont come here and complain about community rules and expect sympathy is all i'm saying.