Author Topic: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger  (Read 9577 times)

ChpBstrd

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GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« on: December 14, 2019, 08:48:53 PM »
From the article:

Quote
The 2021 Tahoe is 6.7 inches longer than the current one. The new Suburban is 1.3 inches longer than the Suburban's now on sale. Both also have longer wheelbases.

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People buy these sorts of SUVs because they need the size for cargo and people, while they may also want the towing capabilities and ruggedness, said Kelly Blue Book's Allyson Harwood. Some buyers also just like their truck-like appearance and feel but need the passenger space of an SUV, she said.

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Pricing hasn't been announced yet but the Tahoes and Suburbans at dealerships now start at around $50,000.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/10/success/gm-chevrolet-tahoe-suburban-suvs/index.html

Perhaps they could add a fireplace as an option so people can heat their bus/RV by having one of the third row passengers shovel money into it.

ysette9

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2019, 08:55:51 PM »
I just don’t get it.

Way back when I was a kid before the whole SUV thing took, off my friend’s parents had a Suburban to tow their boat. I did many trips in it with them to the lake or to the mountains to ski (they were rich). I found that yes, it was huge, but my biggest beef with it as a passenger was the big size combined with the boat-on-the-high-seas suspension meant that I was constantly getting carsick.

RWD

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2019, 09:15:15 PM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (edit: this is the economy with E85 fuel) depressing 14/20 mpg (4WD 6.2L model). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 12:27:51 PM by RWD »

APowers

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2019, 11:31:03 PM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (worse than a V12-powered Ferrari). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.

24 carry-on sized bags likely won't even fit in a Suburban that has seven people in it. You know what vehicle they *would* fit in? The minivan above all minivans. ETA to add that the ultimate minivan is almost FOUR FEET shorter than the Suburban, with just as much cargo capacity (*and* gets better fuel economy. *and* has way better leg room for everyone. *and* is easier to parallel park. *and* has a sliding door so no-one has to crawl over the seat to get in the back. *and*...)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 11:35:46 PM by APowers »

Travis

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2019, 04:24:40 AM »
Somebody should remind GM that parking spaces aren't getting any larger.

neo von retorch

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2019, 06:49:27 AM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (worse than a V12-powered Ferrari). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.

One time on vacation we had six people and luggage in a rented Tahoe.

Oh right, it was that one time, which is why it was only a rental!

In my 20s I bought a 5 year old Tahoe with 120k for $8900. Looking back, what a steal that was! It was a hoot, and let me do lazy things like leave my mountain bike in the back. I also took it camping with family and loaded it up with nieces, nephews and supplies. (But again that could have just been a rental...)

RWD

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2019, 07:50:14 AM »
It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage.

24 carry-on sized bags likely won't even fit in a Suburban that has seven people in it.

Of course they wouldn't fit, you can't use the space 100% efficiently. But I said "equivalent" luggage (by volume), not specifically just carry-on bags. The Suburban has 39.3 cu feet of cargo space with the seats in place and standard carry-on is 1.6 cu ft. So the equivalent volume of 24 carry-on bags.

The Vanagon is certainly an impressive bit of packaging (hard to beat a box for cargo space). Not too surprisingly, though, the 1984 Vanagon (2WD) gets worse fuel economy than a 2020 Suburban (2WD).

Wrenchturner

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2019, 10:26:46 AM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

ChpBstrd

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2019, 10:30:47 AM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

But it’s luxurious.

ysette9

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2019, 02:16:09 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

But it’s luxurious.
Is it? Never have I considered a suburban or similar as “luxurious”. Big, yes. Expensive, yes. But luxurious in my mind implies it is nice and drives well and is comfortable, none of which the suburban is. It is an obese truck with a lid and lots of cup holders. Just because it has leather doesn’t mean it doesn’t drive like shit.

bacchi

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2019, 06:15:00 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

Or in an underground parking garage. Bad idea all around.

neo von retorch

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2019, 08:08:54 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

Or in an underground parking garage. Bad idea all around.

Yeah when I rented one on vacation, I started in an underground parking garage at the airport... Good times!

Travis

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 08:52:27 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

Or in an underground parking garage. Bad idea all around.

Yeah when I rented one on vacation, I started in an underground parking garage at the airport... Good times!

My current apartment has an underground garage. American trucks and SUVs are just a disaster down there.  On a good day they stay between the lines, but if you're next to them you're not getting your door open. On any other day, they just park over the lines. There's a truck that deliberately straddles two spaces.

Wrenchturner

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 10:15:41 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

Or in an underground parking garage. Bad idea all around.

Yeah when I rented one on vacation, I started in an underground parking garage at the airport... Good times!

My current apartment has an underground garage. American trucks and SUVs are just a disaster down there.  On a good day they stay between the lines, but if you're next to them you're not getting your door open. On any other day, they just park over the lines. There's a truck that deliberately straddles two spaces.

American vehicles are bad enough in the Americas, I can't imagine dealing with them in Asia or Europe!

Just Joe

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2019, 07:59:33 AM »
Somebody should remind GM that parking spaces aren't getting any larger.

Watched a fellow at the hardware store trying to fit in a parking spot. Spot on the left was too small (he tried). Spot the right was too small. Tried further down the row and gave up driving out to the end of the row. Just a standard unlifted pickup.

Probably there to buy a pack of lightbulbs.

Life's too short to waste time trying to park a large vehicle at the post office, hardware store, then at the crowded grocery store, and then down the street at the discount store, etc. etc. etc.

Cpa Cat

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2019, 08:18:04 AM »
We had a friend whose parents owned a Tahoe. They would make these road trips from Nebraska to Kansas and back on a regular basis. The gas cost on the brute blew our minds. For two people.

Well... see. They said they needed it for their dog.

You're picturing a St Bernard, right? Maybe a Great Dane?

Their dog turned out to be a blind, 16 year old Bichon Frise. It weighed all of 5 pounds. When it was let out of its crate, it would just walk into walls and then poop, because it was incontinent. This was the dog that needed a Tahoe.

ysette9

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2019, 08:18:54 AM »
I always feel a bit of glee when I squeeze my GTI into small spots that others pass up. Suckas!

But then I really show them up when I park my bike on the sidewalk right next to the entrance of wherever I am going.

Kazyan

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2019, 08:57:55 AM »
I always feel a bit of glee when I squeeze my GTI into small spots that others pass up. Suckas!

But then I really show them up when I park my bike on the sidewalk right next to the entrance of wherever I am going.

That's the secret: every car is unwieldy as hell. It's just that some cars are particularly egregious.

UpNAtom

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2019, 09:41:53 AM »
I always wondered if there was a correlation between driving and parking ability with size of vehicle.

MilesTeg

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2019, 10:01:49 AM »
I always wondered if there was a correlation between driving and parking ability with size of vehicle.

Generally people with large vehicles are better parkers. People with small vehicles sometimes appear to be, but that's only because it takes much less skill to park a small vehucle.

NoVa

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2019, 10:37:25 AM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (worse than a V12-powered Ferrari). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.

Where did you get these gas mileage numbers? When I look at 2019 Suburban's it lists 14-15 city and 20 or better highway? Not that that is good.

RWD

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2019, 12:22:14 PM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (worse than a V12-powered Ferrari). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.

Where did you get these gas mileage numbers? When I look at 2019 Suburban's it lists 14-15 city and 20 or better highway? Not that that is good.

I used fueleconomy.gov. Going back I'm seeing the same numbers as you. 14/20-21 mpg for the 4WD model and 14-15/22-23 mpg for the 2WD model. I think what happened is I was looking at the E85 numbers, as those are 11/15 mpg (4WD model). I apologize for that, I'll edit my original post. Thanks for fact checking!

joe189man

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2019, 12:49:07 PM »
is a new tahoe or suburban not mustachian because its big? or expensive? or a 15 year old hatch back? or not a pedal bike?

is it fun to point and laugh, hey look at the middle class american spending $70k on a huge wheel chair,

its all relative, a tahoe buyer would judge many lifestyle choices folks here make in a similar way, its all relative to your echo chamber.

 i find the whole antimustachan wall of shame and comedy forum unproductive and even harmful, it seems to be reinforcing the us vs them narrative that is pervading the internet. focus you you and how you can improve not putting others down

in case your are wondering i drive a paid for 2010 mazda 3 hatchback

GreenIvy66

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2019, 12:52:48 PM »
Perhaps GM is compensating for the ever growing body size of the "average" American person.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

joleran

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2019, 04:42:32 PM »
is a new tahoe or suburban not mustachian because its big? or expensive? or a 15 year old hatch back? or not a pedal bike?

is it fun to point and laugh, hey look at the middle class american spending $70k on a huge wheel chair,

its all relative, a tahoe buyer would judge many lifestyle choices folks here make in a similar way, its all relative to your echo chamber.

 i find the whole antimustachan wall of shame and comedy forum unproductive and even harmful, it seems to be reinforcing the us vs them narrative that is pervading the internet. focus you you and how you can improve not putting others down

in case your are wondering i drive a paid for 2010 mazda 3 hatchback

I just hitch double axle trailer to my Peterbilt when I need groceries, except when I take my dragster for repeat trips since there's no storage.

jinga nation

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2019, 06:36:48 AM »
i find the whole antimustachan wall of shame and comedy forum unproductive and even harmful, it seems to be reinforcing the us vs them narrative that is pervading the internet. focus you you and how you can improve not putting others down

it's a sub to vent and point out stupid behavior. no one's forcing you to read or comment on this sub-forum.
this ain't the positive "Share Your Badassity" forum.

DadJokes

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2019, 07:18:33 AM »
is a new tahoe or suburban not mustachian because its big? or expensive? or a 15 year old hatch back? or not a pedal bike?

is it fun to point and laugh, hey look at the middle class american spending $70k on a huge wheel chair,

its all relative, a tahoe buyer would judge many lifestyle choices folks here make in a similar way, its all relative to your echo chamber.

 i find the whole antimustachan wall of shame and comedy forum unproductive and even harmful, it seems to be reinforcing the us vs them narrative that is pervading the internet. focus you you and how you can improve not putting others down

in case your are wondering i drive a paid for 2010 mazda 3 hatchback

There is an us vs. them narrative where the them is consumer culture. Unfortunately, consumer culture is winning that battle pretty convincingly; I think we need clever commercials.

Do you really think how we talk on the internet amongst ourselves has any impact on the Jones' vehicle choice?

ChpBstrd

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2019, 07:18:56 AM »
is a new tahoe or suburban not mustachian because its big? or expensive? or a 15 year old hatch back? or not a pedal bike?

is it fun to point and laugh, hey look at the middle class american spending $70k on a huge wheel chair,

its all relative, a tahoe buyer would judge many lifestyle choices folks here make in a similar way, its all relative to your echo chamber.

 i find the whole antimustachan wall of shame and comedy forum unproductive and even harmful, it seems to be reinforcing the us vs them narrative that is pervading the internet. focus you you and how you can improve not putting others down

in case your are wondering i drive a paid for 2010 mazda 3 hatchback

IDK, I think there is a certain immunization factor here. When I think of how the family of 3 plus one toy poodle decides they “need” a Suburban, it helps me recognize the folly of my own thought process when I think I might “need” to trade my subcompact hatchback for a newer compact SUV like all the neighbors have. When I snap out of that delusion, I’ve saved myself a few thousand bucks over the next few years.

I think it is us vs. them in terms of competing values (for the environment, our families’ financial stability, or using our time to be with those we love instead of working for the sake of stuff). Consumerists have superior numbers, a media megaphone, and entire holidays oriented around wastefulness. Consumerists also look down upon us for our frugal choices in clothing, cars, and housing and they apply peer pressure.

To find a grain of solidarity in an obscure online back room shaking our heads at others’ bad choices seems like a mild response.

dogboyslim

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2019, 08:06:42 AM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

UpNAtom

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2019, 10:03:22 AM »
I always wondered if there was a correlation between driving and parking ability with size of vehicle.

Generally people with large vehicles are better parkers. People with small vehicles sometimes appear to be, but that's only because it takes much less skill to park a small vehucle.

Happen to have stats? I am not saying it is not true but have not seen any actual starts either which way; We may know different people (I am thinking casual drivers, not professionals).  Anecdotally, the people I know with large vehicles are trying to make up for poor driving skills (e.g., I am safer in something bigger) - an ex-neighbour is a perfect example: told me it was my fault that they would block me in because of their inability to park in their parking spot properly (because the needed "extra space" because they were "not good" at parking). 

MilesTeg

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2019, 11:34:23 AM »
I always wondered if there was a correlation between driving and parking ability with size of vehicle.

Generally people with large vehicles are better parkers. People with small vehicles sometimes appear to be, but that's only because it takes much less skill to park a small vehucle.

Happen to have stats? I am not saying it is not true but have not seen any actual starts either which way; We may know different people (I am thinking casual drivers, not professionals).  Anecdotally, the people I know with large vehicles are trying to make up for poor driving skills (e.g., I am safer in something bigger) - an ex-neighbour is a perfect example: told me it was my fault that they would block me in because of their inability to park in their parking spot properly (because the needed "extra space" because they were "not good" at parking).

It's not that people who drive land yachts are more talented or superior, it's that they have more practice. In order to park a big land yacht, you need to do it and learn how. It takes a lot less developed/practiced skill to park a small car. Again, not a slight toward the talent/worth of people who drive small cars, you just don't need to develop that skill nearly as much in that situation.

Just Joe

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2019, 11:36:11 AM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

I rent them for company trips when a bunch of us need to go somewhere together. And big vans too. Nice going down the highway. Nice not to be crammed into a Nissan Sentra full of adults. More or less going from a rental lot near the interstate to a hotel in another city near the interstate and some location near the hotel with a big parking lot.

I don't want to experience daily life with a Suburban or its cousins though. ;)

Daily life is better with the Sentra or anything else with reasonable dimensions. 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 11:37:47 AM by Just Joe »

six-car-habit

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2019, 11:44:41 AM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

 I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban. 

Raenia

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2019, 11:54:39 AM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

 I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I'd be curious of the dimensions of the 99 Suburban as compared to the 2019 Suburban, since the topic of the thread isn't that Suburbans are useless, but that they are getting larger.

RWD

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2019, 12:28:15 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I'd be curious of the dimensions of the 99 Suburban as compared to the 2019 Suburban, since the topic of the thread isn't that Suburbans are useless, but that they are getting larger.

Comparing the 4WD models:

LengthWidthHeightWeight
1999 Suburban219.5 in76.7 in70.7 in5297 lb
2019 Suburban224.4 in80.5 in74.4 in5808 lb

The 2019 Suburban has 100 more horsepower (255 hp vs 355 hp) and gets significantly better fuel economy (12/16 mpg vs 14/21 mpg). With all the seats folded down the 1999 Suburban has more cargo space (149.5 cu ft vs 121.7 cu ft). I couldn't find numbers with the seats up for the 1999 model.

Raenia

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2019, 12:46:06 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I'd be curious of the dimensions of the 99 Suburban as compared to the 2019 Suburban, since the topic of the thread isn't that Suburbans are useless, but that they are getting larger.

Comparing the 4WD models:

LengthWidthHeightWeight
1999 Suburban219.5 in76.7 in70.7 in5297 lb
2019 Suburban224.4 in80.5 in74.4 in5808 lb

The 2019 Suburban has 100 more horsepower (255 hp vs 355 hp) and gets significantly better fuel economy (12/16 mpg vs 14/21 mpg). With all the seats folded down the 1999 Suburban has more cargo space (149.5 cu ft vs 121.7 cu ft). I couldn't find numbers with the seats up for the 1999 model.

Thanks!

ketchup

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2019, 12:50:25 PM »
We had a friend whose parents owned a Tahoe. They would make these road trips from Nebraska to Kansas and back on a regular basis. The gas cost on the brute blew our minds. For two people.

Well... see. They said they needed it for their dog.

You're picturing a St Bernard, right? Maybe a Great Dane?

Their dog turned out to be a blind, 16 year old Bichon Frise. It weighed all of 5 pounds. When it was let out of its crate, it would just walk into walls and then poop, because it was incontinent. This was the dog that needed a Tahoe.
Sheesh.  To think I've crammed three adults and four fully-grown Australian Shepherds into a Geo Metro in an emergency.

Davnasty

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2019, 12:53:16 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

 I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I'd be curious of the dimensions of the 99 Suburban as compared to the 2019 Suburban, since the topic of the thread isn't that Suburbans are useless, but that they are getting larger.

I'm not sure if dogboyslim was trying to defend Suburban ownership or just sharing a personal anecdote, but I'll respond to a hypothetical person defending giant vehicles because someone usually does in these threads.

Let's imagine there's a trend of homeowners buying large scale farm equipment to move a pile dirt. That would be ridiculous and they would be mocked on this sub forum. Of course at the same time, there's nothing wrong with a front end loader, it's a useful piece of equipment for a farmer who actually utilizes the capabilities of such a machine. I think (hope?) everyone recognizes that without anyone needing to give examples of how useful their tractor is.

I feel the same way about the large vehicle debate. If you truly utilize your vehicle and it's the right choice for your situation, then the criticism isn't directed at you. No need to defend your choices and certainly no reason to be offended.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 12:55:22 PM by Davnasty »

StashingAway

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2019, 01:38:11 PM »
24 carry-on sized bags likely won't even fit in a Suburban that has seven people in it. You know what vehicle they *would* fit in? The minivan above all minivans. ETA to add that the ultimate minivan is almost FOUR FEET shorter than the Suburban, with just as much cargo capacity (*and* gets better fuel economy. *and* has way better leg room for everyone. *and* is easier to parallel park. *and* has a sliding door so no-one has to crawl over the seat to get in the back. *and*...)

And top out at 55mph, 45 in a headwind and 35 going up a mountain pass, if at all. And need a major motor rebuild every 25k miles. And have the safety of a cardboard box due to driver placement, crumple zones and center of gravity. And get the worse MPGs than a modern Suburan to boot (not to mention actual mini vans). And be overpriced due to their cult following, *and*... ;)

dogboyslim

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2019, 01:50:50 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I'd be curious of the dimensions of the 99 Suburban as compared to the 2019 Suburban, since the topic of the thread isn't that Suburbans are useless, but that they are getting larger.

Comparing the 4WD models:

LengthWidthHeightWeight
1999 Suburban219.5 in76.7 in70.7 in5297 lb
2019 Suburban224.4 in80.5 in74.4 in5808 lb

The 2019 Suburban has 100 more horsepower (255 hp vs 355 hp) and gets significantly better fuel economy (12/16 mpg vs 14/21 mpg). With all the seats folded down the 1999 Suburban has more cargo space (149.5 cu ft vs 121.7 cu ft). I couldn't find numbers with the seats up for the 1999 model.
For reference, the 2500 curb weight was 5575 & had 290 hp.  mileage was much worse at 10.9 mpg mixed use.

I'm not defending the suburban per-se, but simply stating that for those that have them, they tend to love them, even if they are not frugal.  The only defense, if you want to call it that, is that people like them, are willing to pay as much as a small house to buy them, and they still sell 50k to 60k of them annually (and that doesn't count the Tahoe/Yukon/Yukon XL or Escalade cousins).  They are a horrible financial choice.  I don't think anyone can defend that.

mm1970

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2019, 01:54:04 PM »
I definitely wouldn't want to drive one of these in the city or try to park it in a busy lot.

Or in an underground parking garage. Bad idea all around.
We got a "free upgrade" in Copenhagen to a Nissan SUV (whatever they are in Europe, I feel like it started with a Q?)  It was all fun and games until we got to the AirBNB during week 2, with our parking spot in an underground parking garage, against a pole near the wall.  OMG talk about 15 point turns to get in and out of the space, even considering both spaces next to ours were occupied by bicycles.

Daisyedwards800

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2019, 02:06:46 PM »
It is really a dumb creation.  It takes up more room on the road and pushes us cyclists to the wayside and the bigger the cars, the fewer the parking spaces.  SO DUMB.

ChpBstrd

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2019, 02:53:57 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

 I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I agree with them being a rental option for people who need to simultaneously haul a trailer and six passengers, but a passenger van would still be a more economical choice, as much of the expense for the SUV is for luxuries and 4WD.

So we’ve narrowed down the use case to that time you need to haul a trailer through mud while impressing six business executives or clients. For someone out there, this is a common use case, but for the other 59,999 Suburban/Tahoe buyers the truck is actually used to move one person back and forth down paved streets to and from work.

MilesTeg

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2019, 03:57:33 PM »
We had a 99 suburban 2500.  Loved that thing.  Family of 5 plus the 20 lb dog, all our luggage and could still tow the 25' sailboat.  Wasn't great to park, got 9 mpg.  Frugal? Nope.  Still, loved it.  Now we have an outback for travel.  Kids inform us of the benefits of the suburban every time we go on a trip.

Its a great vehicle that isn't frugal, but it has its place.  There is a reason they can sell so many of them.

 I think this answer wins, in defense of the usefullness of the Suburban.

I agree with them being a rental option for people who need to simultaneously haul a trailer and six passengers, but a passenger van would still be a more economical choice, as much of the expense for the SUV is for luxuries and 4WD.

So we’ve narrowed down the use case to that time you need to haul a trailer through mud while impressing six business executives or clients. For someone out there, this is a common use case, but for the other 59,999 Suburban/Tahoe buyers the truck is actually used to move one person back and forth down paved streets to and from work.

I wonder how narrow the use case is for an 7-8 passenger use case. Does it justify 100s of thousands sold per year?

Travis

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2019, 05:17:53 PM »
I always wondered if there was a correlation between driving and parking ability with size of vehicle.

Generally people with large vehicles are better parkers. People with small vehicles sometimes appear to be, but that's only because it takes much less skill to park a small vehucle.

Happen to have stats? I am not saying it is not true but have not seen any actual starts either which way; We may know different people (I am thinking casual drivers, not professionals).  Anecdotally, the people I know with large vehicles are trying to make up for poor driving skills (e.g., I am safer in something bigger) - an ex-neighbour is a perfect example: told me it was my fault that they would block me in because of their inability to park in their parking spot properly (because the needed "extra space" because they were "not good" at parking).

It's not that people who drive land yachts are more talented or superior, it's that they have more practice. In order to park a big land yacht, you need to do it and learn how. It takes a lot less developed/practiced skill to park a small car. Again, not a slight toward the talent/worth of people who drive small cars, you just don't need to develop that skill nearly as much in that situation.

I find this to be true generally for experienced older pickup truck drivers.  Not so much for SUV drivers under 40.  I have F-150 owner friends who could be stunt drivers with their trucks, and SUV-owning neighbors who couldn't park straight with three backup cameras and someone holding those orange light sticks.

Wrenchturner

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2019, 06:00:48 PM »
I don't think parking skill has anything to do with the size of one's vehicle.

OtherJen

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2019, 06:58:19 PM »
I don't think parking skill has anything to do with the size of one's vehicle.

Agreed. I couldn't parallel park successfully if you offered me money to do it, regardless of the vehicle size. Therefore, I drive a tiny hatchback to compensate partly for that lack of parking skill. 

APowers

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2019, 09:46:29 PM »
24 carry-on sized bags likely won't even fit in a Suburban that has seven people in it. You know what vehicle they *would* fit in? The minivan above all minivans. ETA to add that the ultimate minivan is almost FOUR FEET shorter than the Suburban, with just as much cargo capacity (*and* gets better fuel economy. *and* has way better leg room for everyone. *and* is easier to parallel park. *and* has a sliding door so no-one has to crawl over the seat to get in the back. *and*...)

And top out at 55mph, 45 in a headwind and 35 going up a mountain pass, if at all. And need a major motor rebuild every 25k miles. And have the safety of a cardboard box due to driver placement, crumple zones and center of gravity. And get the worse MPGs than a modern Suburan to boot (not to mention actual mini vans). And be overpriced due to their cult following, *and*... ;)

I learned to drive in a Vanagon-- it was the family van for a long time when I was a kid. While I'd agree that it was underpowered, it did 70mph just fine-- my parents did road trips from WA to SoCal with our family of 9, so lots of mountain passes on those trips. It got 19-21mpg (mixed driving), which is comparable to the Suburban highway economy. If I recall correctly, it is a 1-ton rated vehicle (my Dad had to buy truck tires for it, instead of passenger-rated tires), while the Suburban is usually a 1/2 or 3/4 ton rated truck.

The head gasket issue is a definite downer, though it doesn't seem to hinder Subaru sales, lol! They ARE overpriced, though the cult following just *might* be due to the fact that there simply isn't any equivalent vehicle on the road any more; supply/demand, etc, etc.

With regard to safety, while it's "not safe" by today's standards, it's not any more dangerous than any other reasonably safe '80s vehicle without ABS/airbags/etc. The driver visibility is simply amazing due to the high seating position, the relatively narrow A/B/C pillars, and the HUGE windows all around.

StashingAway

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2019, 05:53:55 AM »
The head gasket issue is a definite downer, though it doesn't seem to hinder Subaru sales, lol! They ARE overpriced, though the cult following just *might* be due to the fact that there simply isn't any equivalent vehicle on the road any more; supply/demand, etc, etc.

Hey I'm just joshin' with ya a bit ;)

They're cool vehicles- unique and unmatched in their era. Safety was good for back then, but absolutely awful compared to modern vehicles (A lot of people underestimate the advances that modern cars have in this aspect). I think the supply/demand is driven by the romanticized icon of a lifestyle that they have a monopoly on. They're not that much more utilitarian than an American cargo van, but the latter just doesn't have the same appeal and recognition. Everyone sees a VW bus/van and knows what it is and gets classic road trip vibes instantly. And like you said- we will never see a modern equivalent (mostly due to the safety thing again)

Malcat

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Re: GM made the Suburban and Tahoe even bigger
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2019, 06:18:06 AM »
The current Suburban is 224.4 inches long and gets a mind boggling 11/15 mpg (edit: this is the economy with E85 fuel) depressing 14/20 mpg (4WD 6.2L model). Adding 1.3 inches to the length brings it up to 225.7 inches which is 3.6+ feet longer than a Corolla... I understand why I see these parked outside because it certainly wouldn't fit in our garage!

We just bought over $220 worth of groceries and supplies including some bulky items like paper towels today and it all fit easily in our 166.7 inch long Subaru BRZ. It's hard to imagine a scenario where I would need to transport 7 people and each of them is bringing the equivalent of 3.5 carry-on sized bags of luggage. I'm sure there are some specific scenarios where it makes sense but most the time it's super overkill.

I bought a 2012 Corolla and I find that thing huge. I was driving a borrowed Tercel at the time, and it was about half the size of the honkin' Corolla.

I can't even fathom driving something 3.6ft longer. That's insane.