Author Topic: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?  (Read 13094 times)

LiveLean

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Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« on: April 20, 2015, 11:02:48 AM »
I've seen a couple of online rants in the last week, including Carolyn Hax's advice column, about couples who ask for honeymoon funding in lieu of wedding gifts. Surprised to hear the outrage over it. My sister, who is a 38-year-old minimalist living in a small NYC apartment, didn't want a slew of typical household stuff. She and her husband, married earlier this month, created the fund-our-honeymoon page instead.

I kind of liked the idea. Then again, I prefer to give cash rather than buying Girl Scout cookies, Boy Scout popcorn, school wrapping paper and other stuff I don't need that cuts into the money received by the party I'm trying to help. I thought the fund-our-honeymoon was rather Mustachian, though I could be wrong.


GizmoTX

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 11:08:35 AM »
We always give a check for a wedding present. It's portable, replaceable if lost, & the couple can choose to spend it on anything they want.

caliq

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2015, 11:12:13 AM »
Multiple people in my family have done this and I think it's totally fine.  Most couples getting married already live together, and have therefore 'set up their household' which was the original purchase of wedding gifts, I think.  It's silly to replace the perfectly functioning stuff you have with slightly fancier stuff just because you feel like you need to have something on a registry at Williams Sonoma or whatever.  No one, even the much older people, in my family batted an eye at the honeymoon thing. 

velocistar237

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2015, 11:16:05 AM »
I guess some people want to keep some control of their money even after they give it away. I hadn't heard of this, so hopefully it's rare.

Just register at BB&B and return everything. Pro tip: It's easier to carry it all back if you only register for small stuff.

MgoSam

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2015, 11:18:50 AM »
My sister did a gift registry and then returned nearly all of it for the cash. She wanted to just ask for cash, but knew that too many people would bring crap that they had lying around instead. It was somewhat a pain to haul the gifts and then bring them into the store to return, but better than getting a bunch of items that were regifted after sitting in someone's basement for years.

geekette

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2015, 11:25:41 AM »
FWIW, Carolyn Hax didn't come down hard on it: 
Quote
Its not your thing, and its not in good taste, and when people ask for my advice, I urge them not to treat their weddings as a chance to pass the hat.

However, if theyd rather parasail than have matching dessert plates, then so be it. I have better things to hyperventilate about, and I imagine you do, too. Especially since their having two households right now means this is one of those we already have two of what we need situations.

Some of their friends and family will harrumph about it, yes. But when they do, dont pile on. Instead, just say something noncommittal, like, To each his own. For what its worth, if I were a guest at this wedding, Id help fund the honeymoon. Id rather make them happy than make a statement.

Part of the problem is the way it was done (a "save the date" card with a link to no actual info on the wedding, just a plea for money).

Asking for cash is in poor taste, but making the retailers be the middleman is too. 

velocistar237

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2015, 11:46:21 AM »
Part of the problem is the way it was done (a "save the date" card with a link to no actual info on the wedding, just a plea for money).

I read a Ms. Manners type article that said not to put any information about gifts on the invitation. People understand the concept, and they can ask if they need to. These days, you can just look it up at BB&B & Target's websites.

justajane

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 11:50:24 AM »
My sister did a gift registry and then returned nearly all of it for the cash. She wanted to just ask for cash, but knew that too many people would bring crap that they had lying around instead. It was somewhat a pain to haul the gifts and then bring them into the store to return, but better than getting a bunch of items that were regifted after sitting in someone's basement for years.

Good lord. What a colossal waste of everyone's time. I think asking for money is tacky, but this is far, far worse. If I found out that a friend of mine did this, they would probably become an ex-friend afterwards. Think of all the time/gas/gift wrapping/shipping charges/boxes that this wastes! It's the absolute opposite of good faith. 

And the people who would regift something from their basement likely would regift it even if you had a registry. Who she inconvenienced were the people who probably would have been happy to give cash if she'd politely made that clear when people asked. Sorry if I offend you, but your sister was completely rude.

Zikoris

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2015, 12:01:03 PM »
I've seen honeymoon registries where you buy specific things rather than just give money. Like couples massages, activities, champagne, or gift cards to restaurants. It seems like a good idea to me, though personally I find asking for gifts of any type pretty awkward.

Bob W

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 12:56:52 PM »
Hey how about just charging each guest $150 per seat and $300 for VIP seating.   Charge an additional $400 for a 30 second dance with the Bride.  Then "screw the honeymoon,  we're buying a house!"   

While you're at it make sure to plan a destination wedding that the entire family is mandated to attend.   That way your guests can spend an additional $500 on transportation and hotel rooms. 


rocksinmyhead

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2015, 01:02:20 PM »
I wouldn't be offended or anything if someone did that, but I would never do it. personally, asking for ANYTHING, whether it's upgraded dishes or cash towards a honeymoon or down payment, seems like a money grab to me (in my particular situation... read on). I thought the original purpose of wedding gifts was to help a young couple, who are presumably out and living on their own for the first time, get their new household established. it makes no sense when you've already been living on your own and/or together for several years (which is the case for me). thankfully my boyfriend and I have talked a little bit about this and I'm pretty sure we're on the same page... when we eventually get married we'll just say no gifts and if people really, desperately want to do something financial to celebrate our wedding, we have a favorite charity they can donate to.

mm1970

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2015, 01:05:09 PM »
Hey how about just charging each guest $150 per seat and $300 for VIP seating.   Charge an additional $400 for a 30 second dance with the Bride.  Then "screw the honeymoon,  we're buying a house!"   

While you're at it make sure to plan a destination wedding that the entire family is mandated to attend.   That way your guests can spend an additional $500 on transportation and hotel rooms.

This is a great idea!  (just kidding)

Good lord, when did weddings become this?  When we got married, we registered because people asked us to register. I have treasured the gifts that we got. I don't care if they didn't match.  Some of my family members traveled hours and stayed in a hotel and only could afford a small gift or check, but who cares??

I have one friend who gave me a check for the amount of the food for her and her fiance.  That seems weird.  But as I get older, it seems to be that my friends expect that, or figure it's etiquette.  So if you are invited to a wedding that is $75 a person, you give a check for $150.

I thought a wedding was a chance to join your fiance in marriage, and celebrate it with your family and friends - NOT a reason to make money.  I guess it's just a way to shift money around?  As in the old days, the parents paid for the wedding, the guests got a party, and the bride and groom got gifts?  So the parents and the guests "lose" money and the bride and groom "get" money.

If you want to get married and have a party, have a party.  But pay for the freaking party.
If you want a honeymoon, save up for the freaking honeymoon.

If you are 25, 35, 45, 55, and don't want a bunch of gifts because you don't need them, or are a minimalist, or are picky, write "NO GIFTS PLEASE, your presence is our present".  You'll get a few gifts, some cash, and some people will take you at your word.  In the end, you'll probably lose money on the wedding if you are paying for it.  BUT SO WHAT.

BlueHouse

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2015, 01:14:22 PM »
GAUCHE! 

Agree with mm1970.  If you want to have a party, then you should be able to pay for it.

mak1277

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2015, 01:17:04 PM »
This isn't *all* that new of a concept, just has more steam because of sites like go-fund-me.  I had multiple friends who got married in the mid-90s who asked for people to give to a "house downpayment fund" instead of buying gifts.  They had set it up with a specific bank and people could contribute to that rather than buying presents.

Personally, I only give cash at weddings now.  It's easier on me, and it allows the couple to buy what they want/need/didn't get from others.

NumberCruncher

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2015, 01:17:58 PM »
I can understand it as long as the site they go through doesn't take some % in fees, but I can also understand why many people dislike the idea.

If you are 25, 35, 45, 55, and don't want a bunch of gifts because you don't need them, or are a minimalist, or are picky, write "NO GIFTS PLEASE, your presence is our present".  You'll get a few gifts, some cash, and some people will take you at your word.  In the end, you'll probably lose money on the wedding if you are paying for it.  BUT SO WHAT.

+1

I had one friend who said she couldn't make it to my wedding since she didn't have money for a dress, plus gift, plus transportation. I told her of course she didn't need to bring a gift, she could wear jeans and I'd deal with anyone who objected, and that I'd pay for the Greyhound (it was like a three hour ride one way).    :) 

RexualChocolate

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2015, 01:25:48 PM »
Tons of bad advice here.

Honeyfunds are super tacky and disingenuous. You are not buying 'experiences,' they just cut the couple a check minus a fee. Just. Give. Cash. Never give to these things.

Do not ever mention anything about gifts on ANYTHING wedding related except the wedding website, where you can link your registry. This includes NO GIFTS PLEASE which you would think would be gracious. It's not. It's telling people what to do.

If you do not want stuff, don't register anywhere. Most people will get the hint. The people who don't will get you a physical gift regardless what you put and will think you're tacky as hell for saying anything about what they should do (and would be right).


midweststache

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2015, 01:32:52 PM »
It's kind of a double edged sword, honestly. If you have any kind of registry, particularly if you've been living together, it can be seen as tacky, but if you don't have a registry guests still buy you shit (because it's "expected") and then you have a bunch of stuff you don't need or want (or in our case, don't have space for).

We stressed that gifts were not expected, and that all our of our guests were important people in our lives whose best gift could be their presence at our wedding events; at three different points on our website before guests got to our registry, which was a mix of traditional items (newer linens mostly), requests for homemade items (beer, jams, etc... things many of our friends already make), funds (honeymoon, first anniversary dinner), and donations (two non-politically-polarizing charities positioned at the top of the registry).

We didn't want to have a registry, but it's considered tacky to attend wedding events without a gift for some of our older guests, and I didn't want to end up with fourteen teapots or something.

Friends closer to our age realize how serious we are about not expecting gifts, and are unlikely to gift us anything (WOOT!). 

LiveLean

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2015, 01:34:03 PM »
Hey how about just charging each guest $150 per seat and $300 for VIP seating.   Charge an additional $400 for a 30 second dance with the Bride.  Then "screw the honeymoon,  we're buying a house!"   

While you're at it make sure to plan a destination wedding that the entire family is mandated to attend.   That way your guests can spend an additional $500 on transportation and hotel rooms.

Well, yeah, this was an NYC wedding in mid-April. Traveling fro FL with kids during the school year we couldn't stay more than two nights (we did have a free place to stay) and thus could have at least justified it by staying longer. So you're pretty much correct.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2015, 01:41:31 PM »
This is why I hate weddings...Nothing is free. Someone always has to foot the bill, and parents paying for it is no different. Some of the posts on this site are downright selfish sometimes...

NumberCruncher

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2015, 02:25:10 PM »
Do not ever mention anything about gifts on ANYTHING wedding related except the wedding website, where you can link your registry. This includes NO GIFTS PLEASE which you would think would be gracious. It's not. It's telling people what to do.

If you do not want stuff, don't register anywhere. Most people will get the hint. The people who don't will get you a physical gift regardless what you put and will think you're tacky as hell for saying anything about what they should do (and would be right).

Are you saying "no gifts" is bad period, or that it should only be posted on the website (if at all)?

MrsPete

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2015, 02:28:29 PM »
Rude.  Specifying what type of gift someone should buy you (or assuming that person will buy you a gift at all) is rude. 

If someone ASKS, "What would you like?", tell them; but if they don't ask, suggesting is rude.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2015, 02:55:19 PM »
Rude.  Specifying what type of gift someone should buy you (or assuming that person will buy you a gift at all) is rude. 

If someone ASKS, "What would you like?", tell them; but if they don't ask, suggesting is rude.

Meh. I get how from a strict etiquette perspective it's rude/presumptuous, but in the real world (at least the one I live in), it's 100% assumed that as a wedding guest you should bring a gift. If someone posted absolutely nothing about gifts on their wedding website (no registry, etc.) I would be confused. Yeah, you can ask them about it, but how annoying for everyone to have to do that. IMO the whole point of etiquette is to make life run smoothly and avoid awkwardness and hurt feelings, so I would never think someone was tacky for saying "no gifts please" with regard to a wedding. For other occasions where a gift is not widely assumed to be expected, I can see how it's more rude.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2015, 02:59:12 PM »
If it's a distant relative and I can't make it up for the wedding, or if the cheeky monkeys don't invite me to begin with, the registry is fine. For showers, I have no problem buying off the registry. But anyone I know well is getting something a little more special.

One of my favorite things to do is to make something for the new couple: a custom quilt or blanket, or perhaps the wine for the reception (for those who imbibe). By taking the same amount of money that would have gone into a cash gift or random registry crap, I find I can create something awesome.

Making an awesome gift from scratch requires that I communicate with the bride and groom, and figure out what they like. The gift is never a surprise, because I need input from them to really get it right and make sure it's something they need, want, and can use.

I find that two batches of wine, one red and one white (or whatever the couple prefers) makes five cases, which is enough for a decent sized reception especially if they round it out with other beverages. I get their input on the wine variety they want, start brewing it a few months before the event, bottle it, and dress it up with a custom label. If there's still wine left over after the reception it will make a decent house wine for the couple. It costs me about the same as a pair of $75+-a-plate gifts either in cash or off the registry, but what I deliver is roughly on par with a $15 to $20 bottle of wine. Five cases of that would work out to at least $900 plus shipping.

I always offer the option to the couple, and assure them that if they prefer I'll buy something off the registry. So far I haven't had anyone turn down the offer of vino or something from my needles.

So, no, I don't buy off the freaking registry. :)

MgoSam

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2015, 03:00:48 PM »
My sister did a gift registry and then returned nearly all of it for the cash. She wanted to just ask for cash, but knew that too many people would bring crap that they had lying around instead. It was somewhat a pain to haul the gifts and then bring them into the store to return, but better than getting a bunch of items that were regifted after sitting in someone's basement for years.

Good lord. What a colossal waste of everyone's time. I think asking for money is tacky, but this is far, far worse. If I found out that a friend of mine did this, they would probably become an ex-friend afterwards. Think of all the time/gas/gift wrapping/shipping charges/boxes that this wastes! It's the absolute opposite of good faith. 

And the people who would regift something from their basement likely would regift it even if you had a registry. Who she inconvenienced were the people who probably would have been happy to give cash if she'd politely made that clear when people asked. Sorry if I offend you, but your sister was completely rude.

I can see your point of view, and while it was a pain to return the gifts, but I can tell you flat out that our family friends wouldn't have given cash. It's either put up a registry or take the gifts they deem to give. And no, no one regifted anything, so while this appears to be rude, it actually worked. People either gave money or they gave something from the registry. Of course there are people that didn't give anything at all, but there always will be people that do so.

As for waste, registries don't take all that much time. Just go to their website, click on the link, and buy something based on how much money you want to spend. Or if you want to, write out a check. It takes far less time than wrapping up something from the basement. So while I can see why you may not like it, I don't think this is rude at all. Whenever someone gives clothes or anything as a present, they are always sure to include a gift receipt because they know that there is a good chance it might be the wrong size, or you may not like the gift. That said, I do agree that the gas used to ship items is a waste, but that's about it.

greenmimama

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2015, 03:05:45 PM »
Rude.  Specifying what type of gift someone should buy you (or assuming that person will buy you a gift at all) is rude. 

If someone ASKS, "What would you like?", tell them; but if they don't ask, suggesting is rude.

Meh. I get how from a strict etiquette perspective it's rude/presumptuous, but in the real world (at least the one I live in), it's 100% assumed that as a wedding guest you should bring a gift. If someone posted absolutely nothing about gifts on their wedding website (no registry, etc.) I would be confused. Yeah, you can ask them about it, but how annoying for everyone to have to do that. IMO the whole point of etiquette is to make life run smoothly and avoid awkwardness and hurt feelings, so I would never think someone was tacky for saying "no gifts please" with regard to a wedding. For other occasions where a gift is not widely assumed to be expected, I can see how it's more rude.

Yes, it might be rude, but times have changed, a LOT and there isn't any stopping it. I wish we wouldn't have put where we registered on our very informal invites, but we were kids and didn't really know we shouldn't. Loved the cash gifts and that is what we give for weddings, it always fits, doesn't clash with decor and you don't have to return it.

Even though we did register there is human error and we got doubles and triples of some things and a few things I just didn't want after seeing them, we had never set up house before and I should have gone with my mom instead of my fiance :) We would have probably registered differently.


JoeO

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2015, 09:02:07 PM »

I believe that nobody wants to go to anybody's wedding. I mean, no one will actually tell you this, but no one wants to come to your wedding. Except your parents (probably), and maybe some siblings if you're close to them. But don't even assume your siblings want to attend. And people really don't want to buy you a wedding gift, much less a shower or engagement gift. Friends and family will feign enthusiasm about your wedding festivities but I would bet they're just being polite. I know people will protest my saying this but I really think this is true.


dsmexpat

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2015, 09:16:18 PM »
I was really eager to go to a friend of mine's wedding. We grew up together and went to the same university so it was the first time that all of our childhood friends and university friends were all in the same place. I'd not seen a few of them for years either. It was this big event, sufficiently big that nobody had sufficiently pressing prior engagements to get out of it and it was arranged months in advance so everyone was there. Good food, great company, a big party with a lot of effort going into arranging and paying for it and absolutely none of it provided by me. 10/10 would go again.

belgiandude

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2015, 09:22:40 PM »
In my culture, we usually bring cash (in an envelope). You are 'supposed' to cover the meal.
In practice, you give 50 euro if you attend the wedding of a friend, or 100 euro when it is a close friend or family.


Avidconsumer

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 07:49:39 AM »

I believe that nobody wants to go to anybody's wedding. I mean, no one will actually tell you this, but no one wants to come to your wedding. Except your parents (probably), and maybe some siblings if you're close to them. But don't even assume your siblings want to attend. And people really don't want to buy you a wedding gift, much less a shower or engagement gift. Friends and family will feign enthusiasm about your wedding festivities but I would bet they're just being polite. I know people will protest my saying this but I really think this is true.

+1 This is true. Same goes with having kids. No one cares about your kids when they have kids of their own. Your kid isn't that special to them...Stop showing how awesome your kid is on facebook

velocistar237

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2015, 08:07:00 AM »
+1 This is true.

Some people actually do want to go to weddings. I like to go to some friends' weddings, and my wife more so.

Research shows a correlation between large, cheap weddings and low divorce rates.

Stop showing how awesome your kid is on facebook

Does Facebook have circles like Google+? My extended family wants to see pictures, and Facebook is an okay way to share with them. If other people don't want to see it, then they can skip over those posts, unfollow, or quit Facebook.

Why let these things disturb you?

I agree about the small wedding with just family and friends who want to attend. Any ideas how to make sure that happens?

Just like language, etiquette evolves, and I don't think listing a registry on an invitation is rude anymore. You're also not supposed to wear tuxedos during the daytime, but who cares. Things change.

It's rude for someone to get miffed that their guest didn't bring them a gift.

justajane

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2015, 08:25:41 AM »
It's rude for someone to get miffed that their guest didn't bring them a gift.

What about hurt feelings? I think it's hurtful not to bring a gift at all, but then again, I would consider a handmade card or a nice note on a store bought card to be a gift. But not even bringing a card? Rude.

Yes, if you are miffed that someone didn't give you X thing off your registry that cost X amount of money, then yes, it is rude to be annoyed. But exchanging gifts on special occasions has been a tradition since....well, forever. It's a breach of etiquette not to bring something or do something special for the bride and groom.

No one cares about your kids when they have kids of their own. Your kid isn't that special to them...Stop showing how awesome your kid is on facebook

This may be true, but why share anything at all? Presumably you feel the same when someone shares how far they ran the day before or where they traveled on their vacation? Or their last promotion?

I'm not seeing how sharing something about your kids is uniquely annoying.

I personally like to see the prom pictures, the gymnastics medals or whatnot for the people I care about. If it's not someone I care about, then I just hide them. But for me, if I care about the parents, I tend to care about the kids. Obviously you feel differently, but I'm not sure why.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2015, 09:03:45 AM »
It's rude for someone to get miffed that their guest didn't bring them a gift.

What about hurt feelings? I think it's hurtful not to bring a gift at all, but then again, I would consider a handmade card or a nice note on a store bought card to be a gift. But not even bringing a card? Rude.

Yes, if you are miffed that someone didn't give you X thing off your registry that cost X amount of money, then yes, it is rude to be annoyed. But exchanging gifts on special occasions has been a tradition since....well, forever. It's a breach of etiquette not to bring something or do something special for the bride and groom.

No one cares about your kids when they have kids of their own. Your kid isn't that special to them...Stop showing how awesome your kid is on facebook

This may be true, but why share anything at all? Presumably you feel the same when someone shares how far they ran the day before or where they traveled on their vacation? Or their last promotion?

I'm not seeing how sharing something about your kids is uniquely annoying.

I personally like to see the prom pictures, the gymnastics medals or whatnot for the people I care about. If it's not someone I care about, then I just hide them. But for me, if I care about the parents, I tend to care about the kids. Obviously you feel differently, but I'm not sure why.

Yea that's the same really. That's what facebook is all about 99% of the time. Showing off. Some family members do want to see pictures and videos as they aren't able to go visit, but your 500 friends really have no interest or at least 95% of them.

velocistar237

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2015, 09:49:20 AM »
Yea that's the same really. That's what facebook is all about 99% of the time. Showing off. Some family members do want to see pictures and videos as they aren't able to go visit, but your 500 friends really have no interest or at least 95% of them.

Sounds like a good reason to get off altogether, or at least to be more deliberate about who you're Facebook friends with.

What about hurt feelings? I think it's hurtful not to bring a gift at all, but then again, I would consider a handmade card or a nice note on a store bought card to be a gift. But not even bringing a card? Rude.

Yes, if you are miffed that someone didn't give you X thing off your registry that cost X amount of money, then yes, it is rude to be annoyed. But exchanging gifts on special occasions has been a tradition since....well, forever. It's a breach of etiquette not to bring something or do something special for the bride and groom.

I do give wedding gifts, but I don't think it would be rude if I didn't give a gift or a card. I'm sure someone came to my wedding and didn't give a gift or card, and I don't care. Just coming is great, and anything beyond that is gravy.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2015, 09:54:40 AM »
Yea that's the same really. That's what facebook is all about 99% of the time. Showing off. Some family members do want to see pictures and videos as they aren't able to go visit, but your 500 friends really have no interest or at least 95% of them.

Sounds like a good reason to get off altogether, or at least to be more deliberate about who you're Facebook friends with.

What about hurt feelings? I think it's hurtful not to bring a gift at all, but then again, I would consider a handmade card or a nice note on a store bought card to be a gift. But not even bringing a card? Rude.

Yes, if you are miffed that someone didn't give you X thing off your registry that cost X amount of money, then yes, it is rude to be annoyed. But exchanging gifts on special occasions has been a tradition since....well, forever. It's a breach of etiquette not to bring something or do something special for the bride and groom.

I do give wedding gifts, but I don't think it would be rude if I didn't give a gift or a card. I'm sure someone came to my wedding and didn't give a gift or card, and I don't care. Just coming is great, and anything beyond that is gravy.

Agreed. Just 99% of the population don't adhere to that.

I think the etiquette that people feel like they have to bring a gift or pay for something as the new standard is terrible. The anonymity makes the process far less awkward for both parties, as a registry may not even come close to being filled, which would make the guests feel bad, and usually results in a family member contributing more than they would have normally to save face of the couple getting married.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 10:05:42 AM by Avidconsumer »

mm1970

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2015, 10:56:14 AM »
Do not ever mention anything about gifts on ANYTHING wedding related except the wedding website, where you can link your registry. This includes NO GIFTS PLEASE which you would think would be gracious. It's not. It's telling people what to do.

If you do not want stuff, don't register anywhere. Most people will get the hint. The people who don't will get you a physical gift regardless what you put and will think you're tacky as hell for saying anything about what they should do (and would be right).

Are you saying "no gifts" is bad period, or that it should only be posted on the website (if at all)?
I think what he is saying is that it shouldn't be in the invite (and it shouldn't).

Generally, I have found out if people are registered by asking their parents or by going to their website (if there is one).

I am used to writing "No gifts please" for my kids' birthday parties.

But yeah, I give cash now. But I'm at the age where I don't go to many weddings.  I'm sure they will start up again in 15 years when our kids are all marriage age.

mm1970

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2015, 10:59:43 AM »

I believe that nobody wants to go to anybody's wedding. I mean, no one will actually tell you this, but no one wants to come to your wedding. Except your parents (probably), and maybe some siblings if you're close to them. But don't even assume your siblings want to attend. And people really don't want to buy you a wedding gift, much less a shower or engagement gift. Friends and family will feign enthusiasm about your wedding festivities but I would bet they're just being polite. I know people will protest my saying this but I really think this is true.

+1 This is true. Same goes with having kids. No one cares about your kids when they have kids of their own. Your kid isn't that special to them...Stop showing how awesome your kid is on facebook
I live thousands of miles away from my family.  My family, and my husband's family, really like the FB photos, and I like theirs.  (I've occasionally gotten complaints that I don't post often enough.)

As far as my friends with kids, I'd argue there too. I like seeing photos of my friends' kids too.

I hated kids before I had them, so maybe I'm making up for lost time.

justajane

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2015, 11:05:03 AM »
Avidconsumer, once again, gift giving is not a "new standard." It has been going on since people existed. Check out Marcel Mauss' The Gift. Basically he argues that people have been giving gifts and exchanging things for thousands of years. It's a form of reciprocity that builds social relationships and establishes connections between tribes and people.

The exchange of a gift usually centers around pivotal moments in life, and one of those would be a wedding. Perhaps it has become crass in the age of consumerism, but the expectation of a gift for certain events has always been the social norm. You can decide to eschew social norms, but you need to accept that people will think it is rude. The onus is not on them to "get over it" or to change their own perceptions of how relationships work. The onus is on you to accept that your decision to do things differently likely will change their perception of you and that you're okay with that.

And I will reiterate again that a gift can be anything from writing a poem, framing a picture of the couple, or drawing a picture. It doesn't have to be a $200 All Clad pot.

Tallgirl1204

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2015, 11:27:52 AM »

And I will reiterate again that a gift can be anything from writing a poem, framing a picture of the couple, or drawing a picture. It doesn't have to be a $200 All Clad pot.

A few years ago I traveled (at considerable personal expense) to the wedding of a long-time friend.  I wrote a waltz named for the occasion/location, had it nicely printed, and got the the fiddle player to play it with me at the reception.  That waltz is still hanging in a frame on the wall in their house.  I still play it at gigs.  Win win all around.

As for "no one wants to see your kids on Facebook and Facebook is 95% bragging," I question why people who feel like this are on Facebook.  I have a gzillion Facebook friends (my preference), and maybe two of them overshare about their kids or "brag" by my standards.  Unfortunately, it's the political/religious/anti-religious posts, rants, untruths and the horrible photos of news-related atrocities that I find myself hiding repeatedly.  And I have unfollowed a few folks for being repeat-repeat offenders.  The whole point of being on Facebook is keeping up with what people have to say about their lives-- it's fine with me if they want to highlight the positives. 

As

Scandium

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2015, 11:38:32 AM »
A honeymoon fund is probably fine, I've seen several do it. But I don't understand why people don't want gifts, even if they're mustachian?  I don't see how taking advantage of an event where people will give you stuff anyway. And you even get to choose what they buy! How is that not great?

We bought a house 2-3 years before we got married, but we lived with Ikea kitchen stuff from our college apartments for years since we would register for it. And most of it I don't consider wasteful either. We chose sensible, quality stuff, but not expensive. Bunch of wine glasses, plates etc. We needed it, but didn't buy it, so it's a win. Nice pots that will last decades. My parents got us furniture that will probably outlive us. If you have all this stuff already then maybe you're not so mustachian..

zephyr911

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2015, 12:00:47 PM »
It doesn't matter how they get the money. If you want to categorize it as MMM or non-MMM, it would be better to ask if it is a wise use of the money in the larger context of their financial situation, their priorities, and their future goals. If I blow 50 grand on my honeymoon and go back to a debt slave lifestyle, you can't say it's MMM just because someone else paid for it. Conversely, spending my own cash on it - if I were well-established and it fit within an overall conservative spending plan that allows me to continue saving and investing while being happy and consuming very little? MMM as fuck.

Zikoris

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2015, 12:02:20 PM »
A honeymoon fund is probably fine, I've seen several do it. But I don't understand why people don't want gifts, even if they're mustachian?  I don't see how taking advantage of an event where people will give you stuff anyway. And you even get to choose what they buy! How is that not great?

We bought a house 2-3 years before we got married, but we lived with Ikea kitchen stuff from our college apartments for years since we would register for it. And most of it I don't consider wasteful either. We chose sensible, quality stuff, but not expensive. Bunch of wine glasses, plates etc. We needed it, but didn't buy it, so it's a win. Nice pots that will last decades. My parents got us furniture that will probably outlive us. If you have all this stuff already then maybe you're not so mustachian..

Well, for one thing we're planning on getting rid of everything and taking off to long-term travel after retirement in nine years. So we REALLY try to avoid gifts that would still be there in that time frame. Experiences, edibles, or things with a <9-year lifespan are fine.

Scandium

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2015, 12:04:38 PM »
A honeymoon fund is probably fine, I've seen several do it. But I don't understand why people don't want gifts, even if they're mustachian?  I don't see how taking advantage of an event where people will give you stuff anyway. And you even get to choose what they buy! How is that not great?

We bought a house 2-3 years before we got married, but we lived with Ikea kitchen stuff from our college apartments for years since we would register for it. And most of it I don't consider wasteful either. We chose sensible, quality stuff, but not expensive. Bunch of wine glasses, plates etc. We needed it, but didn't buy it, so it's a win. Nice pots that will last decades. My parents got us furniture that will probably outlive us. If you have all this stuff already then maybe you're not so mustachian..

Well, for one thing we're planning on getting rid of everything and taking off to long-term travel after retirement in nine years. So we REALLY try to avoid gifts that would still be there in that time frame. Experiences, edibles, or things with a <9-year lifespan are fine.
Yeah because that is totally the situation for most people when they get married, especially if in their 20s...

Zikoris

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2015, 12:10:13 PM »
A honeymoon fund is probably fine, I've seen several do it. But I don't understand why people don't want gifts, even if they're mustachian?  I don't see how taking advantage of an event where people will give you stuff anyway. And you even get to choose what they buy! How is that not great?

We bought a house 2-3 years before we got married, but we lived with Ikea kitchen stuff from our college apartments for years since we would register for it. And most of it I don't consider wasteful either. We chose sensible, quality stuff, but not expensive. Bunch of wine glasses, plates etc. We needed it, but didn't buy it, so it's a win. Nice pots that will last decades. My parents got us furniture that will probably outlive us. If you have all this stuff already then maybe you're not so mustachian..

Well, for one thing we're planning on getting rid of everything and taking off to long-term travel after retirement in nine years. So we REALLY try to avoid gifts that would still be there in that time frame. Experiences, edibles, or things with a <9-year lifespan are fine.
Yeah because that is totally the situation for most people when they get married, especially if in their 20s...

Maybe not exactly that, but tons of people in their 20s do plan to either do some traveling or move a few times for work or school, and choose not to make that more difficult by accumulating things. Same result - it's just way easier to pack up and move without mountains of high quality pots and pans or whatever.

socaso

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2015, 12:38:43 PM »
I had a friend do this and I thought it was a great idea. They were living together and had bought a house but I knew they hadn't traveled much together so I could see that the best gift of all was some quality time together.

bacchi

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2015, 12:57:16 PM »
A lot of hurt feelings here about other people's weddings.

The only wedding gift I've given was to a pair of doctors who asked for donations (because, ya know, when you're making $500k combined, you can buy that Kitchen Aid Mixer in red). The other weddings...they're still my friends. Apparently, they shouldn't be because I'm really, really, rude and didn't interpret the "Your presence is gift enough" correctly.

Avidconsumer

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2015, 01:15:05 PM »
Avidconsumer, once again, gift giving is not a "new standard." It has been going on since people existed. Check out Marcel Mauss' The Gift. Basically he argues that people have been giving gifts and exchanging things for thousands of years. It's a form of reciprocity that builds social relationships and establishes connections between tribes and people.

The exchange of a gift usually centers around pivotal moments in life, and one of those would be a wedding. Perhaps it has become crass in the age of consumerism, but the expectation of a gift for certain events has always been the social norm. You can decide to eschew social norms, but you need to accept that people will think it is rude. The onus is not on them to "get over it" or to change their own perceptions of how relationships work. The onus is on you to accept that your decision to do things differently likely will change their perception of you and that you're okay with that.

And I will reiterate again that a gift can be anything from writing a poem, framing a picture of the couple, or drawing a picture. It doesn't have to be a $200 All Clad pot.

Sorry. Expectations are that a gift must be given. Gifts are usually given, but the expectation wasn't as strong as it is now. It's gotten to the point where the couple can even ask for items. I'm not disagreeing with your view on gift giving in that it's the thought that counts, but if you gave someone a poem, 90% of the population would be disappointed, because of consumerism as you correctly put...

galliver

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2015, 01:50:31 PM »
Rude.  Specifying what type of gift someone should buy you (or assuming that person will buy you a gift at all) is rude. 

If someone ASKS, "What would you like?", tell them; but if they don't ask, suggesting is rude.

Meh. I get how from a strict etiquette perspective it's rude/presumptuous, but in the real world (at least the one I live in), it's 100% assumed that as a wedding guest you should bring a gift. If someone posted absolutely nothing about gifts on their wedding website (no registry, etc.) I would be confused. Yeah, you can ask them about it, but how annoying for everyone to have to do that. IMO the whole point of etiquette is to make life run smoothly and avoid awkwardness and hurt feelings, so I would never think someone was tacky for saying "no gifts please" with regard to a wedding. For other occasions where a gift is not widely assumed to be expected, I can see how it's more rude.

ALL of this. :)

justajane

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2015, 02:05:44 PM »
I'm not disagreeing with your view on gift giving in that it's the thought that counts, but if you gave someone a poem, 90% of the population would be disappointed, because of consumerism as you correctly put...

Now that's definitely true. And maybe that's the MMM response on here that is leading so many to not give a gift at all, i.e. a counter culture response to rampant consumerism.

I'm just arguing against the idea that gift giving is somehow a new idea and that it's a shallow expression. The staunchness people have towards eschewing gift giving on here often comes across more as miserly than counter cultural. But I'm willing to consider that I've misunderstood people. 

And the person who mentioned upthread that their friends clearly said they didn't want a gift - OF COURSE you can forgo a gift in that context. We attended a wedding that said "No gifts" on the invitation. And we didn't bring one.

But if you can't understand why someone who didn't say "no gifts" would be a little hurt/flummoxed/annoyed that someone didn't even bring a card with well wishes written inside to a wedding, then I'm not sure what else to say. I don't see why it's that big of a deal to make/write/do something thoughtful for someone you care about. You are, after all, invited to their wedding, so presumably they mean something to you.

What a thoughtful thing that Tallgirl1204 did - writing a song like that. That's the kind of gift that I would think any Mustachian could embrace. Also - the wine Grimsqueaker mentioned upthread. That's just awesome.

Rubyist

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2015, 06:55:15 PM »
I thought the way my cousin asked for honeymoon contributions was a little obnoxious. Here's a paraphrase from their wedding website:

"Since we know out loved ones would like to gift us practical gifts, we request that you make a donation toward our honeymoon. We have all of the things we need for our home, and we would like to celebrate our union with a special trip."

Here's a better way to put it:

"We have all of the things we need for our home, so please don't feel any obligation to give us a gift. However, if you would like to give us something, we would be very happy to accept a contribution toward our honeymoon."

Basically, don't phrase the request as if you expect everybody to give you something.

puddlejumper24

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Re: Fund Our Honeymoon: MMM or Anti-MMM?
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2015, 03:58:35 PM »
Culture definitely contributes to whether or not you should give a gift at a wedding, what is considered tacky or not. I'm from the deep South. If I wrote No Gifts Please on a wedding invitation, my relatives and parents' friends would be aghast. The concept of not bringing a gift to a wedding is completely foreign. I'd end up with with a pile of mis-matched "luxury towels" and random bits of kitchen equipment if I didn't channel their desire to give into some avenue. Southerners are generous people...and besides, what is wrong with wanting to bless and honor someone on a special occasion? As pointed out above, gift-giving is part of culture. So give or do not give, but understand that every couple planning a wedding is in the throes of what to do in our age of deteriorating etiquette, so cut them some slack.