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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Coiny on October 07, 2016, 11:27:28 AM

Title: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Coiny on October 07, 2016, 11:27:28 AM
I ordered a 24" computer monitor online. Shipping was free if I pick up in store, so of course I chose that.

I don't have a car, so I took the bus for an hour.

When I arrived at the store, the box was bigger and heavier than expected.

I barely managed to walk out of the store, struggled to cross the road to the bus stop. When the bus came, I couldn't even lift the box to step up onto it. Everyone watched as I stupidly struggled back to the sidewalk.

Desperate, I called a cab (second time in my life) and paid $60 to get home.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: mtn on October 07, 2016, 11:56:14 AM
No uber where you live?

I once got on a bus with my hockey bag. Seats were all nasty, so I just stood and held the bag and my sticks the whole time. That was a unique experience. I took uber after that.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: TheOldestYoungMan on October 07, 2016, 12:06:52 PM
I think it may be time for a regular pushup routine OP.  This is intended mostly in jest, but take the 100 pushup challenge, throw in some squats.

Barring some legit physical disability I haven't seen a modern 24" monitor an adult wouldn't be able to handle.  And I did not expect to google "heaviest 24" monitor" today, also did not expect to be disappointed no useful results popped up.

Kudos to you for even thinking to try and bus it though.  They make some stretchy backpack-style carry aids if you're planning on more sans-vehicle bulkystuff acquisitions.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 07, 2016, 12:10:17 PM
How does a 24" monitor not fit onto a bus but it fit in a cab?  This story doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 07, 2016, 12:12:10 PM
Oh wait, it was too heavy to lift onto the bus, not to bulky to fit?  That still doesn't make any sense. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 07, 2016, 12:15:30 PM
Oh wait, it was too heavy to lift onto the bus, not to bulky to fit?  That still doesn't make any sense. 

Cab drivers will help you get things into/out of trunk, bus drivers won't.

I did something similar with a CRT television some 10+ years back. I got a friend who had a car to come with me but we didn't realize how heavy it was going to be, and the two of us struggled terribly getting it up the stairs and into my apartment. Cosmetic damage was done to the television and I injured my hand.

Sometimes paying for delivery is the smart plan!
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: GuitarStv on October 07, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
Around here an hour long bus trip equates to about a 30 - 40 minute bike ride.  I would have taken my bike and trailer down.  :P
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: human on October 07, 2016, 12:24:00 PM
This happened to me when I lived in Montreal. Something shipped to a fed ex depot in the middle.of nowhere took the bus there then 2km walk. It's not the devce itself (speakers in my case). It's the packaging, I couldn't get my arms around the thing so called a cab. No uber back then, 40 buck ride because I got stuck in traffic.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 07, 2016, 12:24:27 PM
Oh wait, it was too heavy to lift onto the bus, not to bulky to fit?  That still doesn't make any sense. 

Cab drivers will help you get things into/out of trunk, bus drivers won't.

I did something similar with a CRT television some 10+ years back. I got a friend who had a car to come with me but we didn't realize how heavy it was going to be, and the two of us struggled terribly getting it up the stairs and into my apartment. Cosmetic damage was done to the television and I injured my hand.

Sometimes paying for delivery is the smart plan!

How heavy could a 24" monitor possibly be? I can't imagine anyone but a frail old lady not being able to tote a 24" monitor, even a full blown crt, which just raises further questions.  Who still sells crt tvs/monitors?  I haven't seen one for sale in years.  I've only seen a few of those dinosaurs in use at all the last few years.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: human on October 07, 2016, 12:57:52 PM
You're confusing two stories and the crt story mentions it was over ten years ago and it was a TV. Those things were 30-40lbs, that weight in a backpack is no problem wrapping your arms around a huge crt then carry that for 10 blocks.

As for  24 inch monitor now, go to best buy and grab a box with such a monitor and walk around the store for 30 minutes. Those boxes are massive and the handles rip off in about four seconds.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 07, 2016, 01:17:55 PM
You're confusing two stories and the crt story mentions it was over ten years ago and it was a TV. Those things were 30-40lbs, that weight in a backpack is no problem wrapping your arms around a huge crt then carry that for 10 blocks.

As for  24 inch monitor now, go to best buy and grab a box with such a monitor and walk around the store for 30 minutes. Those boxes are massive and the handles rip off in about four seconds.

I don't think I'm mixing up the stories.  Carrying one ten blocks could be difficult, I can understand that.  But he said he had a difficult time getting up the stairs with a buddy.  I've moved 24" crt tvs by myself before and it wasn't hard.  Slightly awkward because of the weight distribution, but honestly I can't understand a non-disabled person not being able to carry and maneuver one over short distances (and even up stairs).  Maybe they are significantly heavier than I remember, but I'm fairly certain I used to have a 27" crt back in high school and it was no problem lifting it and moving it around.  I also had a 35" crt, and that thing was a beast.  I could bear the entire weight of it, but I could see a small person not being able to.  I could not manage the 35" tv alone because of the large size though.

And the original story didn't specify a date so I assumed it was recent.  But even if OP was talking about a heavy crt from the past I still don't understand how she was able to get it out of the store and across the street but not get it on the bus. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 07, 2016, 01:24:16 PM
I don't think I'm mixing up the stories.  Carrying one ten blocks could be difficult, I can understand that.  But he said he had a difficult time getting up the stairs with a buddy.  I've moved 24" crt tvs by myself before and it wasn't hard.  Slightly awkward because of the weight distribution, but honestly I can't understand a non-disabled person not being able to carry and maneuver one over short distances (and even up stairs).  Maybe they are significantly heavier than I remember, but I'm fairly certain I used to have a 27" crt back in high school and it was no problem lifting it and moving it around.

A. I'm a she
B. Chronic injuries/illness = not fully able
C. You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 07, 2016, 01:32:54 PM
I don't think I'm mixing up the stories.  Carrying one ten blocks could be difficult, I can understand that.  But he said he had a difficult time getting up the stairs with a buddy.  I've moved 24" crt tvs by myself before and it wasn't hard.  Slightly awkward because of the weight distribution, but honestly I can't understand a non-disabled person not being able to carry and maneuver one over short distances (and even up stairs).  Maybe they are significantly heavier than I remember, but I'm fairly certain I used to have a 27" crt back in high school and it was no problem lifting it and moving it around.

A. I'm a she
B. Chronic injuries/illness = not fully able
C. You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult

A. ok sorry, honest mistake.  I have no way of knowing the gender of posters and it doesn't matter anyway.
B. Ok that makes more sense
C. Forum rule #1? I'm not assuming everyone is a fully able healthy adult male.  From my experience I would expect any non-disabled adult (that includes women) to be able to carry a 24" crt.  I assumed the OP was female from the start, but completely separate from my conception that all adults should be able to easily lift a 24" monitor, I don't understand how she (or he) could get the monitor out of the store and across the street to the bus stop but not be able to carry it onto the bus.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: [a]bort on October 07, 2016, 01:45:34 PM
Reminds me of busing/walking to get a car battery in -30 degree weather. The driver gave me a look of pity I had never seen
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Coiny on October 07, 2016, 01:50:54 PM
I don't think I'm mixing up the stories.  Carrying one ten blocks could be difficult, I can understand that.  But he said he had a difficult time getting up the stairs with a buddy.  I've moved 24" crt tvs by myself before and it wasn't hard.  Slightly awkward because of the weight distribution, but honestly I can't understand a non-disabled person not being able to carry and maneuver one over short distances (and even up stairs).  Maybe they are significantly heavier than I remember, but I'm fairly certain I used to have a 27" crt back in high school and it was no problem lifting it and moving it around.

A. I'm a she
B. Chronic injuries/illness = not fully able
C. You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult

A. ok sorry, honest mistake.  I have no way of knowing the gender of posters and it doesn't matter anyway.
B. Ok that makes more sense
C. Forum rule #1? I'm not assuming everyone is a fully able healthy adult male.  From my experience I would expect any non-disabled adult (that includes women) to be able to carry a 24" crt.  I assumed the OP was female from the start, but completely separate from my conception that all adults should be able to easily lift a 24" monitor, I don't understand how she (or he) could get the monitor out of the store and across the street to the bus stop but not be able to carry it onto the bus.

Hi, I'm a tiny adult, often mistaken for a child. The bus was extremely packed already, it was rush hour. I hate to admit but my arms are thin and weak. I should do more pushups.

Yes, I realize it sounds really weird, but somehow with the bulky box and the heavy stand supporting the monitor, strangely I couldn't lift it up the bus steps in time, despite my desperation to save money on shipping.  Maybe I could've done it if I had more time  but the driver couldn't wait.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Coiny on October 07, 2016, 01:54:01 PM
This happened to me when I lived in Montreal. Something shipped to a fed ex depot in the middle.of nowhere took the bus there then 2km walk. It's not the devce itself (speakers in my case). It's the packaging, I couldn't get my arms around the thing so called a cab. No uber back then, 40 buck ride because I got stuck in traffic.

Yes, somehow things that seem easy to lift become hard, when the box and packaging adds bulk and you can't get your arounds to carry it properly.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Chris22 on October 07, 2016, 02:19:38 PM
You lost me at one hour on the bus. I don't care what shipping to my house cost, I'd pay that over an hour on the bus any day.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: human on October 07, 2016, 04:09:44 PM
Sometimes you can't be home during the day in those cases they ship to a depot. Can't always ship to work because of strict policies on personal packages. Frugalnacho you're still leaving out packaging which causes most of the bulkiness.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 07, 2016, 04:17:34 PM
I don't think I'm mixing up the stories.  Carrying one ten blocks could be difficult, I can understand that.  But he said he had a difficult time getting up the stairs with a buddy.  I've moved 24" crt tvs by myself before and it wasn't hard.  Slightly awkward because of the weight distribution, but honestly I can't understand a non-disabled person not being able to carry and maneuver one over short distances (and even up stairs).  Maybe they are significantly heavier than I remember, but I'm fairly certain I used to have a 27" crt back in high school and it was no problem lifting it and moving it around.

A. I'm a she
B. Chronic injuries/illness = not fully able
C. You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult

A. ok sorry, honest mistake.  I have no way of knowing the gender of posters and it doesn't matter anyway.
B. Ok that makes more sense
C. Forum rule #1? I'm not assuming everyone is a fully able healthy adult male.  From my experience I would expect any non-disabled adult (that includes women) to be able to carry a 24" crt.  I assumed the OP was female from the start, but completely separate from my conception that all adults should be able to easily lift a 24" monitor, I don't understand how she (or he) could get the monitor out of the store and across the street to the bus stop but not be able to carry it onto the bus.
I'm a small female too and frankly, I rolled my eyes at your statement.  I could not do that on a bus for a distance.  I think you are unintentionally assuming that because it is your experience.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 07, 2016, 07:09:00 PM
You lost me at one hour on the bus. I don't care what shipping to my house cost, I'd pay that over an hour on the bus any day.

Right? I think that my hourly rate for free time is much higher than even the $60 cab ride.  I would imagine the right reply to "I can't afford to ship this item to my house" is "I can't afford this item."
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Ryo on October 08, 2016, 12:07:35 AM
Shipping was free if I pick up in store, so of course I chose that.


Am I the only one that finds this statement strange? I would certainly home the shipping is free, given that there isn't any.

Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: slugline on October 08, 2016, 06:43:21 AM
Shipping was free if I pick up in store, so of course I chose that.


Am I the only one that finds this statement strange? I would certainly home the shipping is free, given that there isn't any.

I infer this to mean that the item is not one normally kept in stock at all locations of a large chain of stores. It might be a clearance item and they only have a few remaining in the entire country. Large retailers can take advantage of their existing distribution system to truck the item to their store nearest you at very little additional cost to them.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Coiny on October 08, 2016, 07:42:17 AM
Shipping was free if I pick up in store, so of course I chose that.


Am I the only one that finds this statement strange? I would certainly home the shipping is free, given that there isn't any.

Some stores don't reduce the price even if I choose in-store pickup, but this store did, so I chose that.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: scottish on October 08, 2016, 02:11:38 PM
Just so I understand, was this a CRT monitor?    DW wouldn't be able to manhandle a 24" onto the bus.

LCD monitors are quite a bit lighter.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 08, 2016, 06:13:05 PM
Just so I understand, was this a CRT monitor?    DW wouldn't be able to manhandle a 24" onto the bus.

LCD monitors are quite a bit lighter.

You misunderstand. The CRT was a television set someone else had many years ago. This was a modern 24" computer monitor.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Syonyk on October 08, 2016, 07:46:56 PM
I once got on a bus with my hockey bag. Seats were all nasty, so I just stood and held the bag and my sticks the whole time. That was a unique experience. I took uber after that.

Woah.  Woah, woah, woah.  Let's back up here.

The bus seats were nastier than a hockey bag?  I thought those were, by far, the most disgusting form of athletic bag on the planet.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: GuitarStv on October 09, 2016, 01:05:37 PM
I once got on a bus with my hockey bag. Seats were all nasty, so I just stood and held the bag and my sticks the whole time. That was a unique experience. I took uber after that.

Woah.  Woah, woah, woah.  Let's back up here.

The bus seats were nastier than a hockey bag?  I thought those were, by far, the most disgusting form of athletic bag on the planet.

Sadly, this has been my experience.  Far too many people choose to put wet/sweaty hockey equipment back into a dark bag and then keep it in a warm house until their next game, not washing anything other than the jersey and socks.  It's a crazy disease factory and tends to stink to high heaven.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Friar on October 09, 2016, 02:36:50 PM
I once got on a bus with my hockey bag. Seats were all nasty, so I just stood and held the bag and my sticks the whole time. That was a unique experience. I took uber after that.

Woah.  Woah, woah, woah.  Let's back up here.

The bus seats were nastier than a hockey bag?  I thought those were, by far, the most disgusting form of athletic bag on the planet.

Sadly, this has been my experience.  Far too many people choose to put wet/sweaty hockey equipment back into a dark bag and then keep it in a warm house until their next game, not washing anything other than the jersey and socks.  It's a crazy disease factory and tends to stink to high heaven.

Even the thought of that stench is enough to make me gag.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 10, 2016, 07:50:01 AM
I'm a small female too and frankly, I rolled my eyes at your statement.  I could not do that on a bus for a distance.  I think you are unintentionally assuming that because it is your experience.

The assumption was intentional.  I don't really understand your statement either.  Once you get it on the bus you can set it down and let the bus do all the heavy lifting back to your house, no?  The problem is lifting a 24" monitor in the box up onto the bus, and I still don't really understand.  Clearly multiple small women have sided with OP and said they couldn't do this either.  Maybe I'm severely over estimating the amount of bulk/weight a small woman can lift (I am 6'1", 240 lbs), or I'm severely underestimating the size/weight of a 24" monitor.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 10, 2016, 08:05:09 AM
I'm a small female too and frankly, I rolled my eyes at your statement.  I could not do that on a bus for a distance.  I think you are unintentionally assuming that because it is your experience.

The assumption was intentional.  I don't really understand your statement either.  Once you get it on the bus you can set it down and let the bus do all the heavy lifting back to your house, no?  The problem is lifting a 24" monitor in the box up onto the bus, and I still don't really understand.  Clearly multiple small women have sided with OP and said they couldn't do this either.  Maybe I'm severely over estimating the amount of bulk/weight a small woman can lift (I am 6'1", 240 lbs), or I'm severely underestimating the size/weight of a 24" monitor.
Depending on the bus, most often I was able to put a bag down at my feet but I still need to hold on to it/control it for the trip while keeping my own balance.  For someone bigger the bulkiness of a box does not effect your center of gravity as much as with a smaller person.  Also the percentage of weight is much different for you than me.  I'm 115lb, the recommended max weight to not harm ones back is 10% body weight.  A quick google says a 24" monitor with packaging is 16.48 lbs, 14% of my body weight. So think about it as something 33lbs and assume the box increases the size as well (I can't find that with a quick google).  Then you have the fact that the average woman has less upper body strength than an average man (of the same size) and you get the problem.  You are not just moving it out to the car, but moving a bulky object on to a bus (lifting up) and then need to control the bulky object while possibly standing on the way home and THEN walking it home.  You were assuming that everyone has the same ability as you, scaled for size aka what she said (not as nicely) "You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult".   Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Enigma on October 10, 2016, 08:12:32 AM
I ordered a Vizio smart TV on amazon with free shipping (amazon prime).

It seems like the best time to buy a tv is during cyber monday the first monday after thanksgiving.  (At least for the US)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 10, 2016, 08:34:09 AM
I'm a small female too and frankly, I rolled my eyes at your statement.  I could not do that on a bus for a distance.  I think you are unintentionally assuming that because it is your experience.

The assumption was intentional.  I don't really understand your statement either.  Once you get it on the bus you can set it down and let the bus do all the heavy lifting back to your house, no?  The problem is lifting a 24" monitor in the box up onto the bus, and I still don't really understand.  Clearly multiple small women have sided with OP and said they couldn't do this either.  Maybe I'm severely over estimating the amount of bulk/weight a small woman can lift (I am 6'1", 240 lbs), or I'm severely underestimating the size/weight of a 24" monitor.
Depending on the bus, most often I was able to put a bag down at my feet but I still need to hold on to it/control it for the trip while keeping my own balance.  For someone bigger the bulkiness of a box does not effect your center of gravity as much as with a smaller person.  Also the percentage of weight is much different for you than me.  I'm 115lb, the recommended max weight to not harm ones back is 10% body weight.  A quick google says a 24" monitor with packaging is 16.48 lbs, 14% of my body weight. So think about it as something 33lbs and assume the box increases the size as well (I can't find that with a quick google).  Then you have the fact that the average woman has less upper body strength than an average man (of the same size) and you get the problem.  You are not just moving it out to the car, but moving a bulky object on to a bus (lifting up) and then need to control the bulky object while possibly standing on the way home and THEN walking it home.  You were assuming that everyone has the same ability as you, scaled for size aka what she said (not as nicely) "You're kind of an ass for assuming everyone in the world is a fully able healthy male adult".   Does that make sense?

No that does not make sense.  I've already accounted for women being smaller than me, and probably not being as strong either, and I still fail to see how a 24" monitor posed that much of a problem.

Do buses not have seats?  How much balance is really required to keep a box balanced?  A box that presumably will balance itself due to gravity.

Also where do you get this recommendation to not lift more than 10% of your body weight?  That's a ridiculously low threshold.  That would mean I couldn't carry more than 24 lbs in order to not hurt my back.  I understand that I am a healthy strong male, and I probably am stronger than most women (even proportionally, ie I can lift a higher % of my body weight than you), but even taking that into account I still don't understand.  By your calculations you wouldn't be able to bring home 2 gallons of milk.  If the OP (or anyone) posted a story of being unable to lift 2 gallons of milk onto the bus they would be met with the same incredulity. 

Also I wouldn't have a problem if you had said it was too difficult and awkward to bring it to the bus and then walk it all the way home.  That's not what the OP said though.  She intended to do that, and got hung up on the step of lifting it into the bus.  And if we are talking about a 16 lb 24" monitor, then I still just don't understand not being able to lift that onto the bus.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: MgoSam on October 10, 2016, 08:36:04 AM
I ordered a Vizio smart TV on amazon with free shipping (amazon prime).

It seems like the best time to buy a tv is during cyber monday the first monday after thanksgiving.  (At least for the US)

Yup, I'm looking for deals but I'm likely not going to find a bargain until Cyber Monday or Black Friday.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: joleran on October 10, 2016, 08:56:14 AM
Just throwing it out there - lifting heavy weights to get stronger/more fit is a thing for men and women of all ages and many levels of health.

I'd like to see someone tell this 115lb woman to stop throwing more than 200 lbs over her head from the floor though.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3728371/Taiwans-Hsu-wins-womens-53kg-weightlifting-gold.html
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: mtn on October 11, 2016, 08:23:41 AM
I once got on a bus with my hockey bag. Seats were all nasty, so I just stood and held the bag and my sticks the whole time. That was a unique experience. I took uber after that.

Woah.  Woah, woah, woah.  Let's back up here.

The bus seats were nastier than a hockey bag?  I thought those were, by far, the most disgusting form of athletic bag on the planet.

Sadly, this has been my experience.  Far too many people choose to put wet/sweaty hockey equipment back into a dark bag and then keep it in a warm house until their next game, not washing anything other than the jersey and socks.  It's a crazy disease factory and tends to stink to high heaven.

Even the thought of that stench is enough to make me gag.

My equipment is laid out on the deck or next to the dehumidifier ASAP after each game/ice session. Pads that can take it are sprayed with 1 part vinegar 5 parts water, or else Fresh Wave (any hockey players need to get that stuff BTW) after almost every outing.

It still smells if you stick your nose in it, but I had it in the backseat of the car after a morning skate all day in the hot sun. My wife got in the car and said "its a good thing it doesn't smell or I'd kill you". If I had opened the bag, I'm sure it would be bad, but it doesn't have to be horrible.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: BlueMR2 on October 11, 2016, 10:08:19 AM
Another case of free shipping not being free...

Went online for carb rebuild kits for my motorcycle.  $57, no tax, free shipping is the best I could do.  Luckily my credit card failed to go through, so I just stopped by the local bike shop...  The cost there, $37, (including tax)...  :-O
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: JLee on October 11, 2016, 10:22:05 AM
Another case of free shipping not being free...

Went online for carb rebuild kits for my motorcycle.  $57, no tax, free shipping is the best I could do.  Luckily my credit card failed to go through, so I just stopped by the local bike shop...  The cost there, $37, (including tax)...  :-O

Lol, yep. Sometimes it's worth checking local stores - after asking for a discount (got 20%!) my local Toyota dealer was cheaper than Amazon for coolant (probably due to hazardous material shipping being factored into the Amazon "free shipping" price).
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: ditheca on October 11, 2016, 10:45:06 AM
When I was 7 years old, I was a computer fair with Dad. He bought a super powerful (286!) computer.  Turned out the monitor was too heavy for me to carry, so Dad put the computer in the car and we went back for the monitor.

As we were leaving for the second time, I heard an announcement that we had won a doorprize and made Dad lug the monitor over to the stage where they handed us $250 cash!

Mother was impressed with the "free computer" we scored at the fair.

tl;dr Irrelevant story about a heavy monitor.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Digital Dogma on October 11, 2016, 01:06:11 PM
Thats a sad story OP, Im disappointed nobody decided to give you a hand on the bus.

I consider myself an able bodied fit guy, but some of these older projection style flat faced TVs and monitors that are not flat panel have almost killed me. Some of those things weigh more than a wood stove. Their awkward size certainly contributes to a terrible lifting posture, and if they're still in a box forget it.

Honestly OP you probably should look into purchasing a small plastic moving dolly with some bungee cords. I've moved some enormously huge items using only a dolly, makes sliding things up/down stairs much easier with the rails on the back. Mechanical advantage > free shipping.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: redbird on October 11, 2016, 02:15:46 PM
That's too bad, Coiny. :(

One suggestion, for the future, is to research the box dimensions and the item weight before doing an in-store pickup. Not all sites list those things, but you can try looking for the same model at other sites. Amazon.com, for example, is pretty good about listing the product dimensions (box is of course going to be bigger!) and the shipping weight (shipping weight includes the box the item comes in). You could also try contacting the store (email, phone, or online chat if they have it) and asking for dimensions and weight before purchasing.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: libertarian4321 on October 11, 2016, 02:34:38 PM
I ordered a 24" computer monitor online. Shipping was free if I pick up in store, so of course I chose that.

I don't have a car, so I took the bus for an hour.

When I arrived at the store, the box was bigger and heavier than expected.

I barely managed to walk out of the store, struggled to cross the road to the bus stop. When the bus came, I couldn't even lift the box to step up onto it. Everyone watched as I stupidly struggled back to the sidewalk.

Desperate, I called a cab (second time in my life) and paid $60 to get home.

I hope the monitor at least worked.

Would have really sucked if it didn't, and they told you to return it to the store...
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Papa Mustache on October 18, 2016, 01:02:24 PM
Once upon a time I had a little folding cart for luggage back before luggage commonly had wheels. Actually - I just found it - tucked away here in my office at work. Not a bad thing to have or borrow for things like this. I'm taking mine home and stick it in the garage.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: dycker1978 on October 18, 2016, 01:28:30 PM
Thats a sad story OP, Im disappointed nobody decided to give you a hand on the bus.

I consider myself an able bodied fit guy, but some of these older projection style flat faced TVs and monitors that are not flat panel have almost killed me. Some of those things weigh more than a wood stove. Their awkward size certainly contributes to a terrible lifting posture, and if they're still in a box forget it.

Honestly OP you probably should look into purchasing a small plastic moving dolly with some bungee cords. I've moved some enormously huge items using only a dolly, makes sliding things up/down stairs much easier with the rails on the back. Mechanical advantage > free shipping.

This is what I feel is the real issue.  If you see someone struggling, for what ever reason help out.  The Op stated that the bus was full.  If someone would have help this would have not been all for not.

This has nothing to do with anything but common human decency.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 18, 2016, 11:22:59 PM

This is what I feel is the real issue.  If you see someone struggling, for what ever reason help out.  The Op stated that the bus was full.  If someone would have help this would have not been all for not.

This has nothing to do with anything but common human decency.

Right?  I can't imagine watching someone struggle to load something onto a bus and not get up to help them.  Unless it was a cart full of durians or an open container of waste I guess.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 19, 2016, 09:25:39 AM

This is what I feel is the real issue.  If you see someone struggling, for what ever reason help out.  The Op stated that the bus was full.  If someone would have help this would have not been all for not.

This has nothing to do with anything but common human decency.

Right?  I can't imagine watching someone struggle to load something onto a bus and not get up to help them.  Unless it was a cart full of durians or an open container of waste I guess.

Especially when they ultimately admit defeat and don't get on the bus.  You just watched them struggle the whole time, then you watched them slink back to the sidewalk and give up?  What a bunch of buttholes. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 10:11:00 AM
Ooooh! Was it impossible to return the monitor to the store? That would have been my choice over paying +/- 50% of the monitor's price in taxi.

I must admit, much like frugalnacho, I have trouble figuring out how someone can carry a box to a bus-stop but then be unable to lift the box 8 inches. The movement is basically a deadlift and I believe anyone should be able to deadlift at least 50% of their bodyweight, even untrained.

I remember when I bought my own 24 inch LCD 10 years ago (aka, thick lcd with heavy stand). I walked 2 miles to the post office in the snow (not joking) and back with the box on my shoulders. It sucked because it was windy and the wind was catching on the large surface area of the box.
 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: farmerj on October 19, 2016, 11:07:09 AM
Quote
I probably am stronger than most women

If you're an average male, you are  stronger than all but the most elite female athletes. The quantitative difference is huge.

Measured here is grip strength, which is a fairly good proxy for upper body strength:

(http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/col1.jpg)

Here's an interesting Reddit thread on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/)


Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 11:15:03 AM
So based on the graph above, even the weakest person on the planet is able to grip 40 pounds.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 19, 2016, 11:18:51 AM
So based on the graph above, even the weakest person on the planet is able to grip 40 pounds.

No, the weakest person in their study was able to grip 40 pounds.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: mtn on October 19, 2016, 11:35:05 AM
So based on the graph above, even the weakest person on the planet is able to grip 40 pounds.

No, the weakest person in their study was able to grip 40 pounds.

This. I'd imagine that the study was pretty structured--something like adults between 25 and 45 in "good health", with good health meaning no MS or ALS, no cancer, not on steroids, etc.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 12:31:56 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 19, 2016, 12:35:06 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

My 10-week old daughter can not. Is there something wrong with her?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 19, 2016, 01:18:55 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

What is the point of saying things like this? You end up just excluding everyone who isn't like you. All humans in the world can grip 40 lbs. OK, healthy humans. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65 who are above a certain percentile for size/weight. Etc. etc. Who cares? How is this relevant to anything? Why not just say: People have different abilities and they should do the best they can with what they've got.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: mtn on October 19, 2016, 01:24:37 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

What is the point of saying things like this? You end up just excluding everyone who isn't like you. All humans in the world can grip 40 lbs. OK, healthy humans. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65 who are above a certain percentile for size/weight. Etc. etc. Who cares? How is this relevant to anything? Why not just say: People have different abilities and they should do the best they can with what they've got.

Because it is research, and it can contribute to other studies.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 19, 2016, 01:33:30 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

What is the point of saying things like this? You end up just excluding everyone who isn't like you. All humans in the world can grip 40 lbs. OK, healthy humans. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65 who are above a certain percentile for size/weight. Etc. etc. Who cares? How is this relevant to anything? Why not just say: People have different abilities and they should do the best they can with what they've got.

Because it is research, and it can contribute to other studies.

Are you suggesting that Guses is participating in this thread and making comments like that because s/he is doing research? Or did you completely misunderstand what I was responding to?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: mtn on October 19, 2016, 01:37:34 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

What is the point of saying things like this? You end up just excluding everyone who isn't like you. All humans in the world can grip 40 lbs. OK, healthy humans. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65 who are above a certain percentile for size/weight. Etc. etc. Who cares? How is this relevant to anything? Why not just say: People have different abilities and they should do the best they can with what they've got.

Because it is research, and it can contribute to other studies.

Are you suggesting that Guses is participating in this thread and making comments like that because s/he is doing research? Or did you completely misunderstand what I was responding to?

Ah. Not completely, but did miss the point.

I thought you were referring to the study in the earlier posts.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 19, 2016, 02:39:54 PM
Quote
I probably am stronger than most women

If you're an average male, you are  stronger than all but the most elite female athletes. The quantitative difference is huge.

Measured here is grip strength, which is a fairly good proxy for upper body strength:

(http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/col1.jpg)

Here's an interesting Reddit thread on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/)
Which grip strength, short term or long term?  Can you link to the actual study?  F max may not be what people are thinking it is
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 03:44:15 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

What is the point of saying things like this? You end up just excluding everyone who isn't like you. All humans in the world can grip 40 lbs. OK, healthy humans. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65. OK, healthy humans between the ages of 18 and 65 who are above a certain percentile for size/weight. Etc. etc. Who cares? How is this relevant to anything? Why not just say: People have different abilities and they should do the best they can with what they've got.

Are you asking about this specific reply or have you read all of my responses in this thread? Frankly, I am reading my response and I don't understand your reaction to it.

If the former, I was adding to what I had said earlier.

If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.



Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 03:48:40 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?
My 10-week old daughter can not. Is there something wrong with her?

Yes, clearly she needs to work on her deadlift.

I'll have to remember babies, infirms, quadraplegic etc. next time I reference what an average person should be able to do. /s
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 19, 2016, 03:54:22 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?
My 10-week old daughter can not. Is there something wrong with her?

Yes, clearly she needs to work on her deadlift.

The little tyke is not very swole. It's true.  I didn't see that you said "average healthy human", so I'm sorry for the snarky reply. I have this thing in written correspondence where I read what people write, instead of what they mean, and get confused if they are not identical. I shall strive to improve.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Dollar Slice on October 19, 2016, 04:01:37 PM
If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.

The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 19, 2016, 07:10:34 PM
If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.

The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

Ah, I found a nerve, it's here!

Not trying to imply anything about the OP, I just can't figure out the physics of how a person is able to pick up a box, walk to a bus stop and then be unable to lift said box anymore. It makes no sense to me. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 20, 2016, 07:11:03 AM
If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.

The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

Ah, I found a nerve, it's here!

Not trying to imply anything about the OP, I just can't figure out the physics of how a person is able to pick up a box, walk to a bus stop and then be unable to lift said box anymore. It makes no sense to me.
I can't lift the same weight up near my head as I can pushing or even picking up from the floor.  Try this.  Take something at the highest weight you can pick up from chest height (and can move to another spot) then try to put it about six inches above said height.  Then come back.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: farmerj on October 20, 2016, 08:24:27 AM
Quote
Which grip strength, short term or long term?  Can you link to the actual study?

Short term. Abstract here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17186303 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17186303). Graph taken from here: http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average (http://www.unz.com/gnxp/men-are-stronger-than-women-on-average).

In the study, 90% of young women in the data had weaker grip strength than 95% of young men. To look at it another way, the strongest 10% of women could beat the bottom 5% of men. A 75th percentile female athlete was weaker than the 25th percentile of male grip strength.

The other link, to Reddit, shows data from a broader spectrum of individuals, and found slightly better numbers for women overall:  "89% of adult men are stronger than the 89% of adult women." https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/4vcxd0/almost_all_men_are_stronger_than_almost_all_women/)

(https://i.redd.it/24q7mk1ooecx.png)

The short version: when your wife asks you to lift something heavy for her, she's not being lazy.





Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 20, 2016, 09:41:56 AM
If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.

The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

Ah, I found a nerve, it's here!

Not trying to imply anything about the OP, I just can't figure out the physics of how a person is able to pick up a box, walk to a bus stop and then be unable to lift said box anymore. It makes no sense to me.
I can't lift the same weight up near my head as I can pushing or even picking up from the floor.  Try this.  Take something at the highest weight you can pick up from chest height (and can move to another spot) then try to put it about six inches above said height.  Then come back.

You are right Gin1984, I can't overhead press 300 pounds.... But I don't see how this relates to getting a box on a bus. Are steps really that high in the states?



Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Papa Mustache on October 20, 2016, 01:29:58 PM
Fair to say a healthy human can grip at least 40 pounds ?

My 10-week old daughter can not. Is there something wrong with her?

My ten year old can though... ;)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 21, 2016, 07:39:31 AM
The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't think the problem is exactly as you are describing. This was not an action that required only slightly less than average strength to accomplish.  I literally cannot comprehend what the OP described.  I don't want to rag on the OP, but I honestly cannot comprehend how any adult, even someone in the bottom decile of strength could not accomplish it.  Maybe there is a miscommunication or a misunderstanding on my part of exactly what was involved.  To me it equates to the analogy I used early: You purchased a gallon of milk, carried it out of the store and up to the bus stop, but then were unable to to lift it onto the bus. 

Again I'm not trying to rag or disparage the OP, and I don't think Guses is either, but the story just makes no sense to me. 

Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 21, 2016, 07:44:06 AM
If the latter, I think it is relevant to the discussion as a 24 inch monitor is much less than 40 lbs and I and other posters can't see how someone is able to carry a box accross a street (presumably in their arms) and then be unable to lift the same box 8 inches. So maybe we are missing something and hence we are questioning the OP.

The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

Ah, I found a nerve, it's here!

Not trying to imply anything about the OP, I just can't figure out the physics of how a person is able to pick up a box, walk to a bus stop and then be unable to lift said box anymore. It makes no sense to me.
I can't lift the same weight up near my head as I can pushing or even picking up from the floor.  Try this.  Take something at the highest weight you can pick up from chest height (and can move to another spot) then try to put it about six inches above said height.  Then come back.

You are right Gin1984, I can't overhead press 300 pounds.... But I don't see how this relates to getting a box on a bus. Are steps really that high in the states?
It goes to how you get on the bus.  After the stairs (which again trying carrying 300lbs upstairs) there is normally a box which will mean picking up the item you are carrying a little higher (which again, what I can carry for a short distance at midheight is different than above midheight). Then you have to carry it for a time period while keeping your balance (while the bus is moving), if the bus is crowded. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Gin1984 on October 21, 2016, 07:47:44 AM
The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't think the problem is exactly as you are describing. This was not an action that required only slightly less than average strength to accomplish. I literally cannot comprehend what the OP described.  I don't want to rag on the OP, but I honestly cannot comprehend how any adult, even someone in the bottom decile of strength could not accomplish it.  Maybe there is a miscommunication or a misunderstanding on my part of exactly what was involved.  To me it equates to the analogy I used early: You purchased a gallon of milk, carried it out of the store and up to the bus stop, but then were unable to to lift it onto the bus. 

Again I'm not trying to rag or disparage the OP, and I don't think Guses is either, but the story just makes no sense to me.
Except multiple women are telling you it does.  Average for male (your assumption based on your experience) is different than average for women AND you are still assuming healthy.  I can get two gallons in the house, but by the time I do, my back is hurting.  See this link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16988571
My personal bet is women have more back problems because we are trying to carry, from a young age, more weight than is healthy for someone of our size because of the comparison to men/boys. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 21, 2016, 07:57:20 AM
The OP has already explained that they are a very small person. No more explanation is needed and frankly they shouldn't have had to explain that in the first place.

It drives me up the damn wall that every time I or anyone else mentions some less-than-average ability, we have to explain ourselves, describe our bodies and our medical problems to any rando who decides they have to shame someone on the internet. It's none of your business if the OP is "average" or not. She said she couldn't lift it. Believe her and move on. Why is that so hard? Instead you're now researching what you think a person ought to be able to carry - so that you can prove the OP is inferior to an average human? That she didn't try hard enough? That she is lying? What are you trying to achieve, exactly, by chasing this tangent?

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't think the problem is exactly as you are describing. This was not an action that required only slightly less than average strength to accomplish. I literally cannot comprehend what the OP described.  I don't want to rag on the OP, but I honestly cannot comprehend how any adult, even someone in the bottom decile of strength could not accomplish it.  Maybe there is a miscommunication or a misunderstanding on my part of exactly what was involved.  To me it equates to the analogy I used early: You purchased a gallon of milk, carried it out of the store and up to the bus stop, but then were unable to to lift it onto the bus. 

Again I'm not trying to rag or disparage the OP, and I don't think Guses is either, but the story just makes no sense to me.
Except multiple women are telling you it does.  Average for male (your assumption based on your experience) is different than average for women AND you are still assuming healthy.  I can get two gallons in the house, but by the time I do, my back is hurting.  See this link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16988571
My personal bet is women have more back problems because we are trying to carry, from a young age, more weight than is healthy for someone of our size because of the comparison to men/boys.

They are, but it still doesn't make sense.  My comprehension of the strength required does not fall into the bottom half or quarter of the posted strength graph, but literally below all data points.  The weakest person, from the weakest group still appears to be above the strength required to accomplish the task.  That is what I don't understand.

EDIT:

Maybe I am underestimating the strength required to accomplish the task, but the image below shows my understanding of the post.

(https://s16.postimg.org/gz1yvy8bp/24q7mk1ooecx2.png)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 21, 2016, 08:39:35 AM
Besides everything frugalnacho (love saying your name, it just rolls of the tongue!) just said, I am left wondering how the monitor even got to OP's home.

Did the taxi driver bring it up the stairs? Did he also lift the monitor onto the desk or is it now installed on the floor?

I can totally understand if the bus was super packed and the OP just said "screw that, I am not going on that bus". But the "blame" was laid on the box being too heavy to lift.

What puzzles me the most is that it is biomechanically easier to lift a box from the floor onto a stair (compound muscles groups)  than it is to carry that box from chest height (mostly chest/back). 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: dycker1978 on October 21, 2016, 10:05:56 AM
So at first I was disgusted by the comments.  Every ones  level of strength is different.  So it may be completely possible that the OP was not able to do this as stated.

Then I decided I would see what the OP was trolling a little.  They only have 24 posts, so I went back into her history and read some of them.  The one the I think was interesting is where she talked about her dumpster diving.  making three trips with garbage bags full of food from the dumpster to her place. 

I think we have been trolled here people.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Friar on October 23, 2016, 08:18:39 AM
[...] is it now installed on the floor?

This had me in stitches!
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: RobFIRE on October 23, 2016, 08:58:13 AM
I'll assume for a moment the OP's comments are all genuine:

It does seem surprising that an adult could not lift up a box containing a modern 24" LCD i.e. only a couple of inches / up 5 cm thick. I have a 23" LCD which weighs about 2 kg. The stand is plastic so wouldn't add much weight. If I assume some LCDs have a heavy stand and a sturdy box we're still only looking at around 5 kg / 10 lbs. I would think any adult, small & female or otherwise, could readily lift that weight for a short distance. Yes it would be a pain to carry for a significant distance, but that's not what we're talking about. Now, the LCD I bought came in a box which is around 70 x 50 x 15 cm, pretty sensible. On other occasions I have carried items of a similar weight to this but in a much larger box, each side > 50 cm, and they can be a pain as you have to hold them in front of you, can't put on a shoulder or carry under arm. Doubly a pain if no suitable carry handles. If you're a small person, therefore with short arms, a medium-sized box with no handles could certainly be problematic. So if the box was quite large in all dimensions this could explain it, you struggle to lift the box with no handles, queue to get on the bus, arms getting tired, and and the entrance to a bus could be narrow if the door has a divider and/or it's busy and there are other passengers blocking the way, you struggle to navigate round that.

So if the box was much larger than 70 x 50 x 16 cm then I don't know why the manufacturer did that, of course they'll want it to be well packaged but doesn't have to be a huge box.

Or (seems unlikely but could be) the LCD is actually one of the old style CRTs, there must be some people who use them for specific reasons (some people have issues with the high-frequency flicker of LCDs for example?). An old style CRT is definitely heavy, could easily be 20 kg / 40 lbs, is square so would be in a large box. I would not expect any of my female friends to easily manage lifting and carrying such a box.

However, it still doesn't answer the question, surely on a full bus there would be somebody willing to help another person get a box onto the bus? Did the OP not ask, perhaps they were embarrassed to or it's not a very friendly area of town? It is a shame if nobody offered to help.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 23, 2016, 06:05:04 PM
However, it still doesn't answer the question, surely on a full bus there would be somebody willing to help another person get a box onto the bus? Did the OP not ask, perhaps they were embarrassed to or it's not a very friendly area of town? It is a shame if nobody offered to help.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of diffused responsibility on the human decision making process. It's a fascinating phenomenon that has been widely studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: JLee on October 24, 2016, 08:22:12 AM
However, it still doesn't answer the question, surely on a full bus there would be somebody willing to help another person get a box onto the bus? Did the OP not ask, perhaps they were embarrassed to or it's not a very friendly area of town? It is a shame if nobody offered to help.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of diffused responsibility on the human decision making process. It's a fascinating phenomenon that has been widely studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

Yep.  If you take a first aid / CPR class, notice how they teach you to point to a specific person / observer and say "you call 911" instead of the generic "somebody call 911" - because everybody expects that someone else will do something.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 05:41:29 AM
MOD NOTE: Some people are being * here.

They have received warnings.

I don't have time to go through and edit individual posts, but understand that behavior where you are criticizing someone for how much they can lift, implying they are a liar or troll because you don't believe/understand their story, etc. is not acceptable.

OP was trying to tell an amusing story, and multiple people were straight up rude.

Please be understanding and empathetic in the future, especially to people not as capable or strong as you.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 26, 2016, 06:09:57 AM
Thanks for the warning arebelspy, I guess. Can you point me to where I was breaching forum rules if you don't mind?

I stated several times that I was not implying the OP was not capable of lifting the box. It's not about physical capabilities it's about inconsistensies in the story.

Maybe you felt I was being sarcastic in my replies, but I was very genuine. Maybe you could have another read as to what we actually wrote and see if we were really breaching forum rules.

Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 06:11:37 AM
Yes, it's the first rule.

I did read the entire thread.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 26, 2016, 07:10:00 AM
Thanks for the warning arebelspy, I guess. Can you point me to where I was breaching forum rules if you don't mind?

I stated several times that I was not implying the OP was not capable of lifting the box. It's not about physical capabilities it's about inconsistensies in the story.

Yea I don't really understand either.  I wasn't trying to be a jerk, I just can't comprehend the OP's story.  I don't think I called the OP a name or anything.  Are we not allowed to call out claims we think are incredulous?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 26, 2016, 07:15:16 AM
Where do you feel we were jerks?

Here is what I understand:
"OP said X.

We questioned whether X was possible. We presented data showing that X was unlikely.

Other people responded that yes, X was possible.

We continued presenting arguments that X was unlikely and expanded our reasoning."

Would you feel the same way if the discussion had been about saving 50% of a salary?

We never called people names or attacked anyone. At least, not willingly, which is why I am requesting clarifications.

Is there a taboo about discussing physical ability, biomechanics and the basic laws of physics?



Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 08:47:16 AM
Where do you feel we were jerks?

It was at this part, that I bolded:
Quote
Here is what I understand:
"OP said X.

We questioned whether X was possible. We presented data showing that X was unlikely.

Other people responded that yes, X was possible.

We continued presenting arguments that X was unlikely and expanded our reasoning."

OP presented a funny anecdote.  Her physical abilities were challenged.  Other posters, as you say, confirmed this is a real issue.  You continued to insist that no, it was not.  That's where you crossed over.

As far as this violating the forum rules of being a jerk, you guys obviously won't think you were being jerks.  But, as Louis CK says "It's not up to you!"

You can watch the whole clip, but I have it queued up to 1:50, the relevant part:
https://youtu.be/18y6vteoaQY?t=110

You guys don't think you were being rude.  But it's not up to you, it's up to everybody else.  Multiple other people had a problem with the comments, per reports, and reading the thread now, I can't view your comments were kind or constructive in any way.  What did you want to prove, that the OP was weaker than your ideal of a human?  That they are a liar?  You were already told by multiple people this was an issue.  Are they all liars?  What is the point of arguing if they can lift a box or not?  How is it not being a jerk, challenging someone on their physical abilities, trying to use "physics" as you say to prove that they're wrong?

This is the part, from that clip, where you go "Alright, what happened, how did I get here," rather than "No I'm not!"  :)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 26, 2016, 09:09:44 AM
Where do you feel we were jerks?

Quote
We continued presenting arguments that X was unlikely and expanded our reasoning."

OP presented a funny anecdote.  Her physical abilities were challenged.  Other posters, as you say, confirmed this is a real issue.  You continued to insist that no, it was not.  That's where you crossed over.

I still don't understand why clarifying and providing additional evidence to support your point on a discussion forum is considered being a jerk.  Most of the posters and threads would fit that criteria simply because of differences of opinion (many of which are factually based and thus not really an opinion).  This seems like it is discouraging members from questioning the validity of a statement no matter how inaccurate or ridiculous they think it is.  I get that it's not entirely up to me (or any individual) to decide when they themselves are being an asshole, but I don't agree that there should be a popular consensus just because multiple people are offended and click the report button.  Would you reprimand yourself just because several posters reported your post? Argumentum ad populum

Based on the way this thread has gone I'm sure several people will construe this post as being a jerk as well.  My intention with this post is not to be a jerk though, but just to clarify my viewpoint.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 09:16:08 AM
There is a difference between questioning the validity of a claim, especially regarding someone else's physical abilities, and continuing to insist it's wrong even when other people tell you it's valid.

Saying "I don't agree this investment strategy is the best, I think this is because CAGR, beta, blah blah" is very different than "I actually think you CAN lift it, and attempt to prove it with this semi-related study, thereby calling you, and everyone else confirming the issue, a liar."

Backing up an opinion is different than calling out someone's physical abilities.  Can you not see that?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 26, 2016, 09:35:33 AM
There is a difference between questioning the validity of a claim, especially regarding someone else's physical abilities, and continuing to insist it's wrong even when other people tell you it's valid.

Saying "I don't agree this investment strategy is the best, I think this is because CAGR, beta, blah blah" is very different than "I actually think you CAN lift it, and attempt to prove it with this semi-related study, thereby calling you, and everyone else confirming the issue, a liar."

Backing up an opinion is different than calling out someone's physical abilities.  Can you not see that?

I do, but how far can it go before it's completely incredulous?  What if you replaced the monitor with a pack of gum?  The OP claimed she couldn't lift a pack of gum up onto the bus, and then the thread played out in an identical manner with several people confirming that the story makes perfect sense, everyone's physical ability is different, and it's completely reasonable that the OP couldn't lift the gum up onto the bus.  And several other posters were completely incredulous and kept arguing that no the story in fact does not make sense and they cannot fathom how anyone could possibly not lift the pack of gum onto the bus.  Would the befuddled posters still be receiving warnings in that case?

Obviously a pack of gum is an absolute extreme, but that is my entire point.  I literally cannot fathom a single adult that is healthy enough to be physically mobile under their own strength (and drag the object in question all the way out to the bus stop), yet is unable to lift it onto the bus.  In my mind there is no practical difference between a pack of gum and a 14 pound box, they are both equally unfathomable to me.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 26, 2016, 10:12:54 AM
Saying "I don't agree this investment strategy is the best, I think this is because CAGR, beta, blah blah" is very different than "I actually think you CAN lift it, and attempt to prove it with this semi-related study, thereby calling you, and everyone else confirming the issue, a liar."

Is that what was said now?

I don't recall it that way. In fact, it seemed like more like the first quote of the paragraph.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Cathy on October 26, 2016, 10:22:19 AM
What if you replaced the monitor with a pack of gum?

What if you replaced the pack of gum with an envelope containing one of your knowingly false and fraudulent US federal tax returns (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/$170-cash-found-on-sidewalk-gt-what-would-you-do/msg1232370/#msg1232370)? That has about as much relevance as the question you just asked, i.e., none at all.


In my mind [the OP's story] is ... unfathomable[.]

The main problem here is that both you and Guses haven't actually engaged in a reasonable analysis of this situation. Among the plethora of defects found in your overly simplistic posts is that you've both fixated specifically on the weight of the object, while ignoring the size of the box even though the original post specifically said that "the box was bigger ... than expected".

Let's keep in mind that the original poster ("OP") purchased the monitor online and it may have been shipped from a warehouse to the local store, which means that the monitor might have been in at least two nested boxes (the manufacturer packaging and the box added for the warehouse shipping), and each of those two boxes might have contained significant padding and mostly open space. As a result, we might have been talking here about a very large box indeed. One of the challenges in transporting such a large box isn't just lifting the weight, but also how to best place one's arm around the box to carry it, especially if a person has shorter arms than you do. The mass distribution within the box is also uneven, but the monitor might be positioned in such a way within the box that the optimal way to position the mass doesn't mesh well with the contours of a comfortable way to hold the box.

The difficulty of loading such a box onto the bus isn't just the physical lifting, but also the challenge of how to best maneuver a large object through a relatively small doorway up into the bus. Keep in mind that the pathway up into the bus probably involves having to walk up several steps, which means the OP had to figure out how to best maneuver the box so that she could get her arms around it and lift it onto the bus, but also had to do it in such a way that she could continue to walk up the steps of the bus with the box.

Furthermore, the situation is also made very stressful by the fact that the other passengers on the bus just want to get where they are going, and aren't interested in waiting around. In such a situation, both the bus driver and other passengers might start to show that they are annoyed. Even if they don't say it, you can see it on their faces, and it's discouraging and can add pressure to an already-stressful situation. (The OP doesn't specifically say anything about this, but another source of stress is that for a woman carrying a purse on her shoulder, it could start to slip off in this situation of trying to lift a large box, and this can be stressful because there is a risk of, say, one's wallet or phone falling out while trying to get onto the bus.)

My point here is that whether or not the OP had the physical ability to lift the box, there was likely a fair amount of technical skill required to do so, and executing on that level of skill in a stressful situation can be difficult for people who don't have a lot of experience with this kind of thing.

More to the point, the OP was under no obligation to go into great deal about why her original plan didn't work out, and it was frankly irrelevant to her story. Your fixation on analysing what, in your mind, she did wrong serves no purpose other than to insult her and attempt to make her feel bad. I doubt you've been successful in that latter objective because of the transparent inanity of your posts, but you've made a valiant effort.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 26, 2016, 10:43:53 AM
The main problem here is that both you and Guses haven't actually engaged in a reasonable analysis of this situation.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe that's not what was intended, hinted at, talked about or even alluded to?

"I am able to do X and I am not able to do X" cannot both be true. So either show me how former X differs from latter X or stop insisting that the statement is true.

"The box was too big for the bus door?" Yeah, makes total sense. End of story.

"I can't carry a box that I have been already carrying?" Does not compute.

It's not about the OP, it's about a contradiction.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Cathy on October 26, 2016, 10:56:58 AM
"I can't carry a box that I have been already carrying?" Does not compute. ...

It's not about the OP, it's about a contradiction.

The OP never said that she ever lifted the box, which is yet another reason why it is difficult to assume good faith regarding your posts in this thread. She said that she "barely managed to walk out of the store" with the box, which could mean, for example, that she pushed it along the ground. There's in fact no statement in any of the OP's posts that she ever lifted the box off the ground at all, and yet you repeatedly have said that she did as evidence of your imagined "contradiction". Even if she did awkwardly lift it slightly off the ground to make it to the bus stop, it's already been explained to you that that requires a different level of technical skill (and perhaps a different amount of physical ability) compared to getting it onto the bus during a stressful situation.

I suspect some of the respondents to this thread (not necessarily you) have never actually taken public transit, or taken it only very rarely. Bus drivers are typically very impatient, as are fellow riders. I have never seen either be friendly or helpful, and on the contrary, they typically add to the stress of the situation by making it known that they are annoyed if you don't immediately step onto the bus. Even if the OP had made it onto the bus, the driver might have driven off before she even took a seat (something I've seen many times), which obviously would have also been very unpleasant while carrying a large box.

The fundamental problem here is that you never engaged in a fair reading of the actual text of the OP's posts. You instead imposed on those posts a narrative consistent with your own experience, and then concluded that the OP's story made no sense. This is just not the right way to analyse text. You need to focus on the words. The OP's words tell a different story than the one you've been arguing against.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 26, 2016, 11:02:53 AM
What if you replaced the pack of gum with an envelope containing one of your knowingly false and fraudulent US federal tax returns (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/$170-cash-found-on-sidewalk-gt-what-would-you-do/msg1232370/#msg1232370)? That has about as much relevance as the question you just asked, i.e., none at all.


In my mind [the OP's story] is ... unfathomable[.]

The main problem here is that both you and Guses haven't actually engaged in a reasonable analysis of this situation. Among the plethora of defects found in your overly simplistic posts is that you've both fixated specifically on the weight of the object, while ignoring the size of the box even though the original post specifically said that "the box was bigger ... than expected".

More to the point, the OP was under no obligation to go into great deal about why her original plan didn't work out, and it was frankly irrelevant to her story. Your fixation on analysing what, in your mind, she did wrong serves no purpose other than to insult her and attempt to make her feel bad. I doubt you've been successful in that latter objective because of the transparent inanity of your posts, but you've made a valiant effort.

I would question how any adult would not be able to lift an envelope containing a tax return and probe for more details, very similar to what I did.  I believe it's relevant, because again, it's literally unbelievable to me.

I didn't ignore the size.  My first two posts were questioning the size and I never received clarification.  I also stated multiple times that there must be a miscommunication or a misunderstanding on the weight/size and never received clarification.  I'm not analyzing what the OP did wrong, I just don't understand the story.

I was accused of making assumptions and interjecting my own personal experience onto the OP, but you've made a fair number of your own assumptions with your response. 

I also disagree that the details are irrelevant to the story, I think they are crucially relevant for my understanding.  Without the details the story makes absolutely no sense to me, and is unbelievable.

I think the thread possibly needs to be locked now, as I doubt there is going to be any further productive discourse.  Either way I will not be posting in this thread any longer.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 26, 2016, 11:10:20 AM
The fundamental problem here is that you never engaged in a fair reading of the actual text of the OP's posts. You instead imposed on those posts a narrative consistent with your own experience, and then concluded that the OP's story made no sense. This is just not the right way to analyse text. You need to focus on the words. The OP's words tell a different story than the one you've been arguing against.

I could be saying the same thing to you, arebelspy and many other posters of this thread. There is assumption of ill intent where none was intended.

I am sorry if discussions beyond the boundaries of the OP are not permitted in this forum. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 04:50:13 PM
"I am able to do X and I am not able to do X" cannot both be true. So either show me how former X differs from latter X or stop insisting that the statement is true.

Your statement isn't what happened.  The statement was: "I was initially barely able to do X, and I was not able to continue to do X",  which can absolutely be true, especially when it comes to something related to strength.

Quote
"The box was too big for the bus door?" Yeah, makes total sense. End of story.

"I can't carry a box that I have been already carrying?" Does not compute.

It's not about the OP, it's about a contradiction.

Really?  Something you can lift once, or in her words "barely managed to walk out of the store" with, that means you can continue to lift it, as long and as much as you want?

It seems more likely to me something you can barely deal with, initially, becomes harder to lift over time.

Your concept of "if she can lift it once, she can lift it forever" is silly.

I'm sure if you give me a box I can barely lift, have me struggle to take it out of a store, stagger across the street with it, my arms may have fatigued by the time it's time to lift it into a bus, even if they got a short break waiting for the bus.

Quote
"I can't carry a box that I have been already carrying?" Does not compute.

How does arm fatigue not compute?

In any case, I agree with FrugalNacho. this discussion isn't productive.  There's a clear disconnect here.  You and FN aren't understanding how the OP struggled with this box.  Others are explaining it to you.  Continuing to insist they are wrong, despite their own experience, is rude.  If you can't see that, you'll have to take the word of the other people letting you know so.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 26, 2016, 06:33:03 PM
However, it still doesn't answer the question, surely on a full bus there would be somebody willing to help another person get a box onto the bus? Did the OP not ask, perhaps they were embarrassed to or it's not a very friendly area of town? It is a shame if nobody offered to help.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of diffused responsibility on the human decision making process. It's a fascinating phenomenon that has been widely studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

Yep.  If you take a first aid / CPR class, notice how they teach you to point to a specific person / observer and say "you call 911" instead of the generic "somebody call 911" - because everybody expects that someone else will do something.
This is great advice to get people productive in any type of emergency.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 26, 2016, 07:16:12 PM

I would question how any adult would not be able to lift an envelope containing a tax return and probe for more details, very similar to what I did.  I believe it's relevant, because again, it's literally unbelievable to me.

Perhaps you could expand your mind then?

When several other posters confirmed the OP's basic premise, instead of saying "Oh, ok, perhaps I should reflect upon this previously unbelievable situation to see if I can comprehend how it might be possible" you continued to push the issue well past the point of politeness.

And now that it's been explained to you (again) by multiple persons, in multiple ways, and you still continue to disparage the OP, I think it's become a clear violation of Rule #1.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 07:34:59 PM

I would question how any adult would not be able to lift an envelope containing a tax return and probe for more details, very similar to what I did.  I believe it's relevant, because again, it's literally unbelievable to me.

Perhaps you could expand your mind then?

When several other posters confirmed the OP's basic premise, instead of saying "Oh, ok, perhaps I should reflect upon this previously unbelievable situation to see if I can comprehend how it might be possible" you continued to push the issue well past the point of politeness.

And now that it's been explained to you (again) by multiple persons, in multiple ways, and you still continue to disparage the OP, I think it's become a clear violation of Rule #1.

FWIW, Nacho, MM here wasn't one of the ones who reported it, nor the person who PM'd me after the mod note thanking me.

I share this because you've always seemed like a good person, and I think you really just don't get that your comments have been on the rude side.  It's not a matter of "majority decides they don't like you," it's a matter of "the continual comments have crossed the line to genuinely rude."

As someone put it to me in a PM "mansplainers gonna 'splain"... I don't think you were trying to go for that, but this is how it came off.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 26, 2016, 07:44:06 PM
I've found that positive discussion is much more powerful and helpful than heavy moderation.

Or, as my good friends would say:


(http://img1.etsystatic.com/013/0/6455415/il_570xN.423178457_aigq.jpg)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 26, 2016, 07:54:29 PM
I've found that positive discussion is much more powerful and helpful than heavy moderation.

(http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/bb8-lighter.gif)

Agreed. :)
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 27, 2016, 07:38:30 AM

Really?  Something you can lift once, or in her words "barely managed to walk out of the store" with, that means you can continue to lift it, as long and as much as you want?

It seems more likely to me something you can barely deal with, initially, becomes harder to lift over time.

Your concept of "if she can lift it once, she can lift it forever" is silly.

I'm sure if you give me a box I can barely lift, have me struggle to take it out of a store, stagger across the street with it, my arms may have fatigued by the time it's time to lift it into a bus, even if they got a short break waiting for the bus.


To be honest, I was not considering that possibility at all. The concept of leaving a store with something so heavy that you can only barely sorta grasp it in your hands for a short while and deciding to leave with it is totally alien to me. I would have been as incredulous if you had suggested appliance shopping on foot.


Arebelspy, while we are airing dirty laundry, I would like to point out that you are the only person in this thread that resorted to name calling. Two, I find your use of "mansplaining" sexist, rude and out of line. As a moderator, I think that you should be setting the example. I'll let you judge what is an appropriate punishment for yourself.



Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 27, 2016, 07:41:33 AM
Arebelspy, while we are airing dirty laundry, I would like to point out that you are the only person in this thread that resorted to name calling.

Oh?  What names would that be?

Quote
Two, I find your use of "mansplaining" sexist, rude and out of line.

It was, as I said (maybe you missed it, or didn't read it?), something someone PM'd to me; it was a direct quote.  I was attempting to show you how you are coming off to others.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Guses on October 27, 2016, 07:47:54 AM

Oh?  What names would that be?


We were called apostrophes.


It was, as I said (maybe you missed it, or didn't read it?), something someone PM'd to me; it was a direct quote.  I was attempting to show you how you are coming off to others.

If someone PM's me that "* is a douchebag tool" do you think it's appropriate for me to post it or should I maybe keep it to myself?

 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 27, 2016, 07:51:23 AM

Oh?  What names would that be?


We were called apostrophes.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

I don't think this is productive to discuss any more, but if you'd like to continue, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Papa Mustache on October 27, 2016, 09:54:31 AM
In case I didn't suggest this before (seems like I did) - get a folding luggage cart. Its what i used before my luggage grew wheels. Cheap, carries all those things you can't.

I have no idea how you can get on and off a bus if you can't lift your shopping but maybe that's an occasion for a taxi or Uber/whatever the other one is.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 27, 2016, 03:06:45 PM

I would question how any adult would not be able to lift an envelope containing a tax return and probe for more details, very similar to what I did.  I believe it's relevant, because again, it's literally unbelievable to me.

Perhaps you could expand your mind then?

When several other posters confirmed the OP's basic premise, instead of saying "Oh, ok, perhaps I should reflect upon this previously unbelievable situation to see if I can comprehend how it might be possible" you continued to push the issue well past the point of politeness.

And now that it's been explained to you (again) by multiple persons, in multiple ways, and you still continue to disparage the OP, I think it's become a clear violation of Rule #1.

Expand my mind? To what? Just because several people get offended and agree with the OP doesn't change the laws of physics, and just because several people agree doesn't make them right nor does it make the story make sense.  As a counterpoint there were several people who seem to agree with me and not believe the OP's story. 

I am not sure how disbelieving the OP's story translates to me disparaging her.  As I stated several times there must be some miscommunication where I don't understand the true size and weight of the box in question, and the OP never clarified what they were. 

First 24" monitor on amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-VX2452MH-24-Inch-LED-Lit-Monitor/dp/B00EZSUVHK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477601643&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=24%22+monitor&psc=1

Item Weight    8.4 pounds
Item Dimensions L x W x H    8.8 x 22 x 17 inches

Given those dimensions and weight I still find the story absolutely unbelievable.  If anyone disagrees with me that is fine, we can just agree to disagree.  Perhaps the object was far larger/heavier than what I am envisioning which could be the source of disagreement.  If anyone was offended by any of my posts, or thought I was being an asshole, then I apologize and can assure you that was not my intent with any of my posts.  I have no ill will towards the OP or anyone in this thread, I just don't think the story is believable, and also can't believe anyone else would think the story is believable.  At this point I don't think any further explanation from either side is warranted.

I know I said I wasn't posting again because I don't think this thread is being productive, but for real this time I am done posting in this thread.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Rural on October 27, 2016, 06:42:47 PM
For what it's worth I am both a very small female with a disability that prevents my lifting much of anything and someone who frequently has observed a phenomenon that is sometimes called "mansplaining," and I have not observed FrugalNacho saying anything in this thread that was offensive or that could be misconstrued that way.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 27, 2016, 07:34:35 PM

I am not sure how disbelieving the OP's story translates to me disparaging her.

When questioned, the OP reiterated that this occurred. Whether it did or not, to continue to argue about the story's veracity, after confirming, is disparaging.

There are times when agreeing to disagree is fine. To continue to attack a poster's honesty because one cannot comprehend their anecdote is not fine.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 28, 2016, 10:43:47 AM
FWIW, Nacho, MM here wasn't one of the ones who reported it, nor the person who PM'd me after the mod note thanking me.

I share this because you've always seemed like a good person, and I think you really just don't get that your comments have been on the rude side.  It's not a matter of "majority decides they don't like you," it's a matter of "the continual comments have crossed the line to genuinely rude."

As someone put it to me in a PM "mansplainers gonna 'splain"... I don't think you were trying to go for that, but this is how it came off.

The more I reflect on this I can't help but point out the irony of someone using the term mansplain in a complaint about my behavior.  The word is inherently sexist, misandrist, and offensive.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 28, 2016, 10:56:27 AM
You may be right.  I've never given much thought to the word, as I've actually only seen it used once or twice, and always in a humorous context.

I guess you didn't understand their sentiment then, even if the wording chosen was poor.

I'm not sure though what wasn't clear about this:
I don't think this is productive to discuss any more, but if you'd like to continue, feel free to PM me.

You could have easily PM'd me that, rather than posting it.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Bourbon on October 28, 2016, 11:02:06 AM
For what it's worth I am both a very small female with a disability that prevents my lifting much of anything and someone who frequently has observed a phenomenon that is sometimes called "mansplaining," and I have not observed FrugalNacho saying anything in this thread that was offensive or that could be misconstrued that way.

I'm neither but I'm also mystified about the same thing.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 28, 2016, 11:10:43 AM
I don't know if the comment was made about FrugalNacho's post(s), Guses', or someone else's.  It did not specify who they were talking about.  Regardless of that, the point is that if someone tells you they physically aren't capable of something, to insist they're wrong, have other people confirm it's plausible, and then continue to insist, is rude.  There's no need to belittle someone by insisting "anyone" should be able to lift that, or that you can't comprehend anyone not being able to.  How do you think that makes the people who can't do it feel?
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 28, 2016, 11:49:48 AM
You may be right.  I've never given much thought to the word, as I've actually only seen it used once or twice, and always in a humorous context.

I guess you didn't understand their sentiment then, even if the wording chosen was poor.

I'm not sure though what wasn't clear about this:
I don't think this is productive to discuss any more, but if you'd like to continue, feel free to PM me.

You could have easily PM'd me that, rather than posting it.

I thought it was a relevant thought that could potentially benefit other readers.  I didn't think it warranted a new thread, and I don't really want to devolve into a debate about the use of the term, but I figured I could just leave it here.  I could have PMed you and you could have relayed it to the original person, but my intent was not really to relay a message to that person, just point out something I perceived as a bit hypocritical and leave it as food for thought for everyone.  I'm not easily offended (and I'm not personally offended by the term), so it didn't occur to me immediately. It wasn't until I thought about it for a bit that it actually occurred to me.  No one else has commented on it though, so maybe it never occurred to anyone else either? 

I also can't be the only one that notices the parallel of me and a few other posters saying we have no ill will, are not intending to be disparaging, etc. and yet getting repeatedly told we are wrong.  I guess if the OP makes an incredulous and implausible claim it should not be questioned, but when I (and several other posters in this thread) make a claim we are just intentionally being obtuse assholes and should ridiculed and branded with scarlet letters. 

Yes this could have been relayed in a PM too, but maybe someone will be able to glean a little insight on my POV.  It would be deliciously ironic however if several posters could pile on top and continue to reiterate how wrong I am and how I should just get it.



Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Bourbon on October 28, 2016, 12:07:12 PM
I don't know if the comment was made about FrugalNacho's post(s), Guses', or someone else's.  It did not specify who they were talking about.  Regardless of that, the point is that if someone tells you they physically aren't capable of something, to insist they're wrong, have other people confirm it's plausible, and then continue to insist, is rude.  There's no need to belittle someone by insisting "anyone" should be able to lift that, or that you can't comprehend anyone not being able to.  How do you think that makes the people who can't do it feel?

I'm not one to usually comment on these things and will probably bow out after this, as the whole thing seems a bit much.  I don't think anyone was belittling, just talking through what was an unlikely scenario from their experience.  Seemed like they were getting shouted down/admonished because others were speaking out, and I just wanted to offer a balancing opinion. 

If they are rude/jerks because of multiple reports, I'd just like to register as someone who didn't see them as being offensive. 
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: arebelspy on October 28, 2016, 06:05:17 PM


I also can't be the only one that notices the parallel of me and a few other posters saying we have no ill will, are not intending to be disparaging, etc. and yet getting repeatedly told we are wrong.  I guess if the OP makes an incredulous and implausible claim it should not be questioned, but when I (and several other posters in this thread) make a claim we are just intentionally being obtuse assholes and should ridiculed and branded with scarlet letters. 

It's amazing to me you could try to draw this parallel.

Telling someone who physically was incapable that they should have been capable, versus letting someone know they have offended other people.

No one told you you were wrong, I'm just explaining how you're coming off to others.  And clearly not everyone, as several have chimed in that you didn't come off that way. People view things differently, obviously.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: frugalnacho on October 28, 2016, 07:01:02 PM


I also can't be the only one that notices the parallel of me and a few other posters saying we have no ill will, are not intending to be disparaging, etc. and yet getting repeatedly told we are wrong.  I guess if the OP makes an incredulous and implausible claim it should not be questioned, but when I (and several other posters in this thread) make a claim we are just intentionally being obtuse assholes and should ridiculed and branded with scarlet letters. 

It's amazing to me you could try to draw this parallel.

Telling someone who physically was incapable that they should have been capable, versus letting someone know they have offended other people.

No one told you you were wrong, I'm just explaining how you're coming off to others.  And clearly not everyone, as several have chimed in that you didn't come off that way. People view things differently, obviously.

Eh, I believe they did tell me I was wrong.  Maybe not those words verbatim, but that was certainly the jist of it. I do get what you are saying, I just don't understand why physical ability gets some free pass, like it's some protected religious belief, and nobody can question the plausibility of the claim no matter how trivial the task is.  I still don't think this thread or this discussion are being productive for anyone.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Silverado on October 28, 2016, 07:46:51 PM
Some very fun back and forth here. Maybe we are learning from it, but maybe not.

More worthless info to not help:

When we were living in Germany, we (of course) bought a bunch of ikea furniture. We did not have a car and had to ride the bus to the store. We bought pillows and lamps and assorted small things, and had no problem. One time we were getting some larger shelves, and I stood there looking at the boxes back in the warehouse area and finally said, 'oh hell no, I cannot get that out the door, across the parking lot, and onto and off the bus' so, I went back and canceled the order.

"A mans got to know his limitations"

I'm aligned with 'this story is bunk without better details', and in my opinion, some common sense.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 28, 2016, 10:48:42 PM

The more I reflect on this I can't help but point out the irony of someone using the term mansplain in a complaint about my behavior.  The word is inherently sexist, misandrist, and offensive.

This.  The term is used to dismiss a view based solely upon the sex of the person who made the claim. Doesn't have much use in reasonable discussion.
Title: Re: Free shipping was not free after all
Post by: joleran on October 31, 2016, 02:10:45 PM
This.  The term is used to dismiss a view based sole upon the sex of the person who made the claim. Doesn't have much use in reasonable discussion.

Agreed, if "mansplaining" is OK, so must "being on the rag" and a cohort of other ills.