Author Topic: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks  (Read 8497 times)

Megatron

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Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« on: September 03, 2013, 09:56:13 AM »
In our office, we have a coffee machine that's puts out free coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a decaf Dunkin Donuts beans. (see pic). It's free and a 3rd party company refills it every week and there's even options for hot chocolate and some sort of vanilla mocha whatchamacallit. Yet, everyday, I see some people walk in with a Starbucks in their hand. I usually get the free green tea and I'm not much of a coffee person so I wouldn't know but does it taste different if you get it from Starbucks vs buying their coffee and making it yourself? I just don't get it.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 09:58:15 AM by Megatron »

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2013, 10:18:51 AM »
We have free Peet's coffee available at my office, but plenty of people still buy the stuff. Makes no sense.

Megatron

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2013, 10:23:50 AM »
I thought they might've needed coffee right away in the morning on their way to work. But still, if they waited a bit longer, it would be free and I once had a meeting with a coworker and right when I walk into his office he says "can you wait a few minutes, I want to run downstairs and grab a coffee from starbucks"
my mind was completely blown.

hybrid

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2013, 10:53:32 AM »
Starbucks is delicious.  More to the point, it is a status symbol.  Yeah, I know what you are talking about, we have free coffee at our firm and a Starbucks next door, lots of Starbucks being consumed by people who gripe about their pay.....  Our firm coffee is pretty mediocre, so I just make mine at home with good beans - certainly as good as Starbucks coffee and a fraction of the price.

When I was at Caesar's Palace for a conference two weeks ago there was free coffee available in the lobby.  Pretty darn good coffee I thought, if not a caramel machiatto.  And not 50 feet away there was a Starbucks that was jam packed every morning.  So while people waited 10 minutes or so for their expensive status symbol lattes and machiattos, I would walk right over to the free coffee, make myself a couple of cups, and head back up to my room.

dragoncar

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 11:04:47 AM »
Well that machine does LOOK like the airport lounge / hospital waiting room type that makes the absolute worst worst coffee on the planet.  There doesnt seem to be an indication that the coffee is from Starbucks.  So the "crime" could simply be one of a non adventurous spirit.

Otherwise I agree with hybrid on the status symbol.  Some workplaces even buy the Starbucks branded paper cups to go with their coffee.

And of course no mere machine could possibly make your extremely complicated non-dairy non-fat double vanilla macchiato with extra foam and a half shot of mint syzzrup (because everyone is a unique snowflake and their beverage consumption should reflect that).

Still, I'm Stute there are people who fall into none of the above explanations.  I would have asked my coworker what's better about the store-bought coffe vs the machine.  I'd guess it "just tastes fresher" of something similar that may be real or placebo.  Does the machine grind and brew the coffee immediately, or merely dispense preamade coffee?

galliver

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2013, 11:06:33 AM »
For those who claim to have bad workplace coffee: is there someone to talk to about changing it?

The main office in my department makes coffee available to faculty, staff, and grad students for 25c/cup. It's just drip, but the beans are from a local roaster in town. I find their house blend some of the tastiest coffee (better, IMO, than coffee shops in the area--if we're talking plain coffee). Of course, nothing quite beats a latte, but I'm happy to restrict those to once a week, at the $2.25 any size special price, with a side of conversation with a friend. :) A "hump day" treat to look forward to.

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 12:28:12 PM »
We get free Seattle's Best where I work, and people still swing by Starbucks on their way in each morning.  In my opinion, Seattle's Best tastes better than Starbucks (interestingly, SB is now owned by Starbucks).  And here in Seattle, I don't perceive any status increase with buying Starbucks.  Coffee snobs sniff at Starbucks.  I suspect that the Starbucks coffee habit is more about the morning routine for some people.  A way to ease into the workday.  On some level I completely get it.  It's just that there are cheaper ways to do it.

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 10:05:37 AM »
We have coffee snobs galore at my office. Our office manager makes fresh pots of coffee throughout the day (different varieties even!), and people will still go out to buy coffee.

See, one of the local coffee shops has contests for local businesses every couple months, where the company that buys the most coffee gets a 20% discount for a week! Buying lots of coffee at full price so you can get a 20% discount for one week is totally better than free coffee, right?!

Ashcons

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 12:17:16 PM »
People generally ignore the fact that spending $1.50 here and there every day or two adds up to quite a bit of money over time. It was one of the weaknesses in my family's budget (and my own life) for a while before we tightened ship.

HildaCorners

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2017, 07:10:32 PM »
New forum member dredging up old topic rather than starting anew ...

This is true in my office as well.

We have about 100 people on my floor, and free coffee via a drip machine. I won't call it great coffee, but it's fresh and hot, and doesn't have that over-roasted flavor the "mermaid" coffee has. [In case you think I have no sense of taste, I use an Aeropress at home.]

For most of a year, I was the only one making and drinking the free coffee. The. Only. One.

I'd come in, make a pot, fill my thermos-mug and go to work. At lunch, I'd get my brown bag from the 'fridge, look at the coffee pot — untouched. This happened every single day ... Am I the only plebeian on an entire skyscraper floor of coffee experts? I don't think so!

Just recently, I noticed someone else is making and drinking the free coffee. Hooray!

Alf91

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2017, 07:17:58 PM »
Same at my workplace! Free coffee (good stuff, local roaster, etc) and there are folks who are buying coffee every day. Not a coffee drinker so I don't get it.

StockBeard

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 02:44:38 AM »
And of course no mere machine could possibly make your extremely complicated non-dairy non-fat double vanilla macchiato with extra foam and a half shot of mint syzzrup (because everyone is a unique snowflake and their beverage consumption should reflect that).

I rarely go to Starbucks, but when I do, I might as well get something I wouldn't spend the time doing myself, and definitely something I cannot get from the machine for free at the office. Plus I consider those starbucks drinks as dessert rather than coffee.
Bottom line is, when I go to Starbucks, I'm definitely the person ordering a double vanilla macchiato with extra foam and a shot of mint syzzrup. (But if possible, it should contain dairy and fat)

eddiejoe

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 06:45:50 AM »

I rarely go to Starbucks, but when I do, I might as well get something I wouldn't spend the time doing myself, and definitely something I cannot get from the machine for free at the office. Plus I consider those starbucks drinks as dessert rather than coffee.

On the rare occasion I go to Starbucks, it's for Frappuccinos, I can make coffee at home. I always refer to the trip "going to get milkshakes" and sometimes it takes people a few second to realize where we are going.

You gotta call a duck a duck. Just because you add caffeine to a Mocha Frappé-milkshake doesn't negate the fact that it has 60 grams of sugar.   

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 07:18:29 AM »

I rarely go to Starbucks, but when I do, I might as well get something I wouldn't spend the time doing myself, and definitely something I cannot get from the machine for free at the office. Plus I consider those starbucks drinks as dessert rather than coffee.

On the rare occasion I go to Starbucks, it's for Frappuccinos, I can make coffee at home. I always refer to the trip "going to get milkshakes" and sometimes it takes people a few second to realize where we are going.

You gotta call a duck a duck. Just because you add caffeine to a Mocha Frappé-milkshake doesn't negate the fact that it has 60 grams of sugar.

Same, only reason I'll stop by the Green Siren. They make awesome fraps (and I love me some PSL). They are giant money sinks, a drawback only outweighed by their huge calories/sugar.

A 3xWeek frap habit sets you back $4k a year.

I drink black coffee most days, though. It's not bad out of a Keurig or a French press. I think most drips tend to use extremely old ground coffee and prep the coffee at too high a temp, so it comes out tasting like swill. The café coffee at my last job was horrid. Gym socks in a cup.

Free black coffee, though, is still like a $600-$1000 untaxed perk, depending on how much coffee I drink. Gimme, gimme, gimme!


MgoSam

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 09:25:03 AM »
Where else are they going to get their Orange Mocha Frappaccino?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCcykdogtQ0

OurTown

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 11:21:22 AM »
Free coffee is a "perc" of the job.

Inaya

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 12:15:07 PM »
Our downtown office has free coffee. I'm surprised people actually drink it because it is terrible. I say this as somebody who can't tell the difference between McDonalds or Starbucks or any other coffee and used to happily drink the instant coffee I kept at my desk (until it started giving me migraines). That said, they do not offer tea, so I bring my own teabags. (Admittedly I do, very rarely, stop at Argo Tea or Starbucks on the way for an Earl Grey latte.)

MilesTeg

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 12:22:51 PM »
In our office, we have a coffee machine that's puts out free coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a decaf Dunkin Donuts beans. (see pic). It's free and a 3rd party company refills it every week and there's even options for hot chocolate and some sort of vanilla mocha whatchamacallit. Yet, everyday, I see some people walk in with a Starbucks in their hand. I usually get the free green tea and I'm not much of a coffee person so I wouldn't know but does it taste different if you get it from Starbucks vs buying their coffee and making it yourself? I just don't get it.

I avoid free coffee at work for several reasons:

1.) It's usually made horribly (too much or too little grounds)
2.) Then it sits around most of the day on the burner
3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

Can't have a personal machine in my office so my solution is to, you know, bring a thermos and drink tea instead. However, I do hit up coffee places for a latte once in a while.
2.)

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2017, 12:29:33 PM »
I've never really understood why Starbucks is seen as a status symbol. Starbucks is literally everywhere. You can walk down the street and pass five Starbucks. It's not like some kind of exclusive club. It's basically overpriced fast food. By all means, drink the free coffee at work if it's offered. If not, do what I do and buy coffee in bulk at the warehouse store and then brew it for like ten cents a cup.

Buying coffee at coffee shops is one of the most confusing wasteful concepts I've come across. Why? Just why?

dragoncar

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2017, 02:07:50 PM »
In our office, we have a coffee machine that's puts out free coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a decaf Dunkin Donuts beans. (see pic). It's free and a 3rd party company refills it every week and there's even options for hot chocolate and some sort of vanilla mocha whatchamacallit. Yet, everyday, I see some people walk in with a Starbucks in their hand. I usually get the free green tea and I'm not much of a coffee person so I wouldn't know but does it taste different if you get it from Starbucks vs buying their coffee and making it yourself? I just don't get it.

I avoid free coffee at work for several reasons:

1.) It's usually made horribly (too much or too little grounds)
2.) Then it sits around most of the day on the burner
3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

Can't have a personal machine in my office so my solution is to, you know, bring a thermos and drink tea instead. However, I do hit up coffee places for a latte once in a while.
2.)

Why don't you just make the coffee yourself in the morning and put it in your thermos fresh?

Do they really still sell "burner" style coffee makers?

DarkandStormy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 02:37:04 PM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 03:10:29 PM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

sparkytheop

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2017, 04:18:58 PM »
The last couple times I bought coffee at Starbucks, it was... not good.  The keurig someone brought to work makes horrible coffee (I have a Hamilton Beach that brews much better coffee from the same pods, or through a filter with regular grounds).  For me Starbucks =/= coffee snob, just someone who spends way too much money.

I also spend an abnormal amount of money on coffee, I'm sure, but I do make it at home.  Biggest expense was the Breville machine, but it gets used daily and is less expensive than buying brewed coffee/mochas/lattes elsewhere.  When not making a latte, we have a French press.  I've also started roasting my own beans, which has helped cut my added sugar by half.  I'm the non-show off coffee snob, bringing my fresh roasted, freshly ground coffee/latte, in my green Stanley travel mug.  Cost (coffee maker, filters, cleaning solution, milk, sugar, coffee beans) is currently around 75 cents a cup.  As I have my machine longer, the more the price per cup will go down.

I'd be more willing to use the machine shown than go to Starbucks daily though.

The Guru

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2017, 05:48:23 PM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

Hate to break this to you, but you touch numerous surfaces that have also been touched by co-workers. That hardly makes them Teeming Cesspools of Pestilence.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2017, 06:53:19 PM »
I buy from Starbucks because I don't drink regular coffee. I drink espresso and that requires an espresso maker. A double shot, is $2.00.

The reason Starbuck's coffee is higher priced, is because each drink is individually hand made. It's not coffee that's poured from a pot, that's been sitting on a burner for hours.

If you want to see what bad coffee tastes like go to 7-11 or one of those convenience stores. The coffee pot around noon time has coffee-turned-sludge. Yes, it's cheaper.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 06:56:25 PM by Chesleygirl »

dragoncar

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2017, 01:03:53 AM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

I never touch the coffee pot handle.  I just suck the coffee out with a straw

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2017, 07:38:00 AM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

Hate to break this to you, but you touch numerous surfaces that have also been touched by co-workers. That hardly makes them Teeming Cesspools of Pestilence.

That's why I've got the hand sanitizer!

Too many people who don't know how to wash their hands, touching everything.

Chesleygirl

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2017, 08:51:25 AM »
I'm guessing that people buy Starbuck's because they feel it tastes better. Perhaps they cut back in other areas of their spending.

I have a mom friend who criticizes me for drinking an occasional Starbuck's. But she buys all her kid's clothes brand new at the mall, whereas I buy everything I have second hand. She probably spends hundreds more than I do on clothing.


DarkandStormy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2017, 08:53:30 AM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

You probably shouldn't touch the refrigerator door either.  Or the door into the office.  Or, gasp, if someone accidentally touched your chair.  Or the elevator button.  Or the counter-top in the kitchen.  And oh no, someone just coughed a couple seats over!! I should just work from home forever!! (And I probably will when I FIRE, actually)

Do you wash your hands after every time you handle money?  Don't forget that, too. 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/15/10-things-that-are-dirtier-than-toilet-seats-5811405/

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2017, 09:02:25 AM »

3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

I...I don't think you know how coffee pots work.

You touch the coffee pot handle, I touch the coffee pot handle, we all touch the coffee pot handle.

You probably shouldn't touch the refrigerator door either.  Or the door into the office.  Or, gasp, if someone accidentally touched your chair.  Or the elevator button.  Or the counter-top in the kitchen.  And oh no, someone just coughed a couple seats over!! I should just work from home forever!! (And I probably will when I FIRE, actually)

Do you wash your hands after every time you handle money?  Don't forget that, too. 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/04/15/10-things-that-are-dirtier-than-toilet-seats-5811405/

Hey, if you don't want to clean your hands frequently, no skin off my back. You're more than free to take whatever risks you think are good. :)

I don't handle money, and I swipe my own credit card. Signatures usually aren't required for small purchases.  Yes, money is absolutely disgusting!

PoutineLover

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2017, 09:09:56 AM »
I can't be the only one who doesn't really worry about touching shared surfaces. I don't like hand sanitizer but wash my hands often enough. I figure some germs won't kill me, it's just a workout for my immune system.
I don't get the point of buying fancy coffee, and I hate sugary coffee concoctions, but even when my office had free coffee I rarely drank it because it wasn't that good. I have my stovetop espresso maker that makes the best coffee in my opinion, so I hardly ever drink any other coffee. Sometimes it's a nice treat to get a cappucino with a friend at a local coffee shop, but it would be too expensive to have that as a daily routine.

mgnpttr

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2017, 09:13:31 AM »
I loved the cold brew with vanilla sweet cream at Sbucks and bought it daily - and then I found this concentrate at Trader Joes. Now I make homemade cashew milk and mix with the concentrate and I'm good to go! Still not the *cheapest* but certainly better that the $5/day Sbucks purchase and healthier/less sugar (I think?). Plus, I avoid the morning rush at the mermaid store - double win.

https://www.traderjoes.com/digin/post/coconut-cold-brew-coffee-concentrate

Inaya

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2017, 09:18:59 AM »
I can't be the only one who doesn't really worry about touching shared surfaces. I don't like hand sanitizer but wash my hands often enough. I figure some germs won't kill me, it's just a workout for my immune system.
I spend nearly 4 hours (round trip) on public transit on days when I go to the office. It's hard to care about germs. I'll eat food I've dropped at home or the office.

Interestingly, after my entire extended family ended up with norovirus after a potluck, only three people were spared (myself included). These three also happened to be the only ones without cars and depended entirely on public transit. I don't think it's a coincidence.

FireHiker

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2017, 11:11:57 AM »
We have both a standard (large/industrial) coffee maker with ground coffee (both Peets and Starbucks) AND an espresso maker (with whole bean ground each time, Starbucks) in my office building. I am astounded when I see people coming in with Starbucks in the morning anyway. Invariably it is the people who complain about having no money.

Now, when we had the old, crappy, company standard-issue coffee, yes, I brought my own coffee in from home in a Thermos each morning. Since we had a manager who is a coffee snob that insisted on stocking the office with real coffee, though, it seems crazy to spend money on something when you can get it here for free. They even have creamers and flavored Starbucks syrups. I don't use those, but if I were inclined to buy something flavored at Starbucks, that wouldn't be an excuse.

golden1

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2017, 12:03:23 PM »
Real coffee snobs turn their nose up at starbucks.  Thier espresso drinks are good, and I don’t have an espresso machine at home, so I occasionally indulge, along with the occasional Frappuccino (lots of calories in those). 

For my daily coffee, I grind my own beans, usually from Trader Joe’s, and do a pour over.  Much better than Starbucks, which I find acidic and often overextracted. 

zephyr911

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2017, 12:48:20 PM »
Real coffee snobs turn their nose up at starbucks.  Thier espresso drinks are good, and I don’t have an espresso machine at home, so I occasionally indulge, along with the occasional Frappuccino (lots of calories in those). 

For my daily coffee, I grind my own beans, usually from Trader Joe’s, and do a pour over.  Much better than Starbucks, which I find acidic and often overextracted. 
^^HEAR HEAR! And most of their employees have no clue what you just said, because they just push a button for every order.

Plus, you could never multiply $5 by a big enough number for the result to be a big number, right? Bueller? Math? xD

MilesTeg

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2017, 12:51:54 PM »
In our office, we have a coffee machine that's puts out free coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a decaf Dunkin Donuts beans. (see pic). It's free and a 3rd party company refills it every week and there's even options for hot chocolate and some sort of vanilla mocha whatchamacallit. Yet, everyday, I see some people walk in with a Starbucks in their hand. I usually get the free green tea and I'm not much of a coffee person so I wouldn't know but does it taste different if you get it from Starbucks vs buying their coffee and making it yourself? I just don't get it.

I avoid free coffee at work for several reasons:

1.) It's usually made horribly (too much or too little grounds)
2.) Then it sits around most of the day on the burner
3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

Can't have a personal machine in my office so my solution is to, you know, bring a thermos and drink tea instead. However, I do hit up coffee places for a latte once in a while.
2.)

Why don't you just make the coffee yourself in the morning and put it in your thermos fresh?

Do they really still sell "burner" style coffee makers?

Because it's easier to use my own and I have no interest in cleaning/sanitizing the community coffee pot every day =)

dragoncar

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2017, 02:36:35 PM »
In our office, we have a coffee machine that's puts out free coffee from Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts and a decaf Dunkin Donuts beans. (see pic). It's free and a 3rd party company refills it every week and there's even options for hot chocolate and some sort of vanilla mocha whatchamacallit. Yet, everyday, I see some people walk in with a Starbucks in their hand. I usually get the free green tea and I'm not much of a coffee person so I wouldn't know but does it taste different if you get it from Starbucks vs buying their coffee and making it yourself? I just don't get it.

I avoid free coffee at work for several reasons:

1.) It's usually made horribly (too much or too little grounds)
2.) Then it sits around most of the day on the burner
3.) Shared community food = shared community illnesses

Can't have a personal machine in my office so my solution is to, you know, bring a thermos and drink tea instead. However, I do hit up coffee places for a latte once in a while.
2.)

Why don't you just make the coffee yourself in the morning and put it in your thermos fresh?

Do they really still sell "burner" style coffee makers?

Because it's easier to use my own and I have no interest in cleaning/sanitizing the community coffee pot every day =)

Nor does anybody else, apparently.

zephyr911

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Re: Free Coffee but still buys from Starbucks
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2017, 09:03:19 AM »
Coffee at typical serving temperature is unlikely to carry any viable microbes. Accordingly, despite drinking pretty much whatever free coffee I can find, I've never gotten sick from it (as far as I know). If any aspect of the process exposes me to elevated risk of contagion, it's touching the machine or the pot handle... but even those are unlikely to have contact with as many people's cells or fluids as a typical doorknob/pushbar/etc.