Author Topic: Forum check: what forum is this?  (Read 42573 times)

Jack

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #200 on: December 16, 2015, 08:48:20 AM »
Sure, but will $50k in NYC buy what $35k does in BFE. I don't think so, though maybe I'm wrong *shrug*. I get Dollar Slice's point about the livable rents, but I still think you have to compare ability to consume, which comes down to income and buying power. Renting isn't the same as owning. Taking transit isn't the same as driving your car. Can you own a house, have a couple of cars, have 2.1 kids, send them kids to good schools, eat out, take vacations overseas, save for retirement, etc. on $50k in Manhattan? I'd wager not, but I a middle class family in the heartland should be able to. I don't know what middle class in NYC looks like, but I don't accept that it's the median income.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you get to live in Manhattan.  Living in Manhattan is the driving a Lamborghini of the housing world.

It sure is! :-) 

To me, life in the suburbs with a couple of kids, a couple of cars, and home ownership sounds like a special kind of hell. Having to drag a ton and a half of metal around with you everywhere you go and find a place to put it when you're doing stuff? Having to pay thousands and thousands of dollars in realtor fees every time you move? All for the privilege of not having to interact with other human beings so much? Ugh.

Well, there are suburbs and there are suburbs. The first kind - that isn't appealing to me involves living a mile or less from all the shopping in the world. Malls, strip retail, big box retail, etc and creating a lifestyle that revolves around these things. Miles of cookie-cutter homes. Prefabricated everything including nature. Raze the land and replant only what you want to be there. Watching the kid shows where everybody strives to hang out at the mall. Purgatory to me and mine. ;)

The other kind of suburb means space and privacy. An acre or more for the family to play on. Room enough that my circular saw or grinder isn't going to raise the ire of the nearest neighbor. My dog isn't going to attract a dog catcher. My kids can ride their bikes without doing so along a busy feeder street. We can build a shed or a gazebo or a screened in porch without attracting the legal power of an HOA. I like my neighbors but I don't want to live WITH my neighbors aka share walls/floors with them. I don't want a parking space - I want a driveway. I don't want to lock up everything outside b/c I need to go spend a few minutes in the loo b/c if I don't lock it all up - it'll walk away.

We still visit a local pub 10 minutes away. By car. We still have a variety of places to visit and socialize. Most of them are not franchise joints where the corporate policy is about getting you in, selling you some service and getting you out so the next paying customer can sit down and repeat the process. ;) We're also minutes away from "outside" so if we want to go fishing or hunting or hiking or whatever we can. Joys of a small town.

There's a third kind of suburb, which is the pre-WWII "streetcar suburb" where the houses are not cookie-cutter and aren't subject to HOAs, the streets are a grid system (so high-traffic arterial roads can be avoided) and there are walkable small shops and things (a lot like a small town). They're technically no longer "suburbs" because they've mostly been annexed into whatever major city they're next to, but they still have a substantial proportion of single-family houses (or low-density things like duplexes and townhouses) with yards and sometimes even driveways, so they aren't "urban" either.

justajane

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #201 on: December 16, 2015, 02:54:40 PM »
Sure, but will $50k in NYC buy what $35k does in BFE. I don't think so, though maybe I'm wrong *shrug*. I get Dollar Slice's point about the livable rents, but I still think you have to compare ability to consume, which comes down to income and buying power. Renting isn't the same as owning. Taking transit isn't the same as driving your car. Can you own a house, have a couple of cars, have 2.1 kids, send them kids to good schools, eat out, take vacations overseas, save for retirement, etc. on $50k in Manhattan? I'd wager not, but I a middle class family in the heartland should be able to. I don't know what middle class in NYC looks like, but I don't accept that it's the median income.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you get to live in Manhattan.  Living in Manhattan is the driving a Lamborghini of the housing world.

It sure is! :-) 

To me, life in the suburbs with a couple of kids, a couple of cars, and home ownership sounds like a special kind of hell. Having to drag a ton and a half of metal around with you everywhere you go and find a place to put it when you're doing stuff? Having to pay thousands and thousands of dollars in realtor fees every time you move? All for the privilege of not having to interact with other human beings so much? Ugh.

Well, there are suburbs and there are suburbs. The first kind - that isn't appealing to me involves living a mile or less from all the shopping in the world. Malls, strip retail, big box retail, etc and creating a lifestyle that revolves around these things. Miles of cookie-cutter homes. Prefabricated everything including nature. Raze the land and replant only what you want to be there. Watching the kid shows where everybody strives to hang out at the mall. Purgatory to me and mine. ;)

The other kind of suburb means space and privacy. An acre or more for the family to play on. Room enough that my circular saw or grinder isn't going to raise the ire of the nearest neighbor. My dog isn't going to attract a dog catcher. My kids can ride their bikes without doing so along a busy feeder street. We can build a shed or a gazebo or a screened in porch without attracting the legal power of an HOA. I like my neighbors but I don't want to live WITH my neighbors aka share walls/floors with them. I don't want a parking space - I want a driveway. I don't want to lock up everything outside b/c I need to go spend a few minutes in the loo b/c if I don't lock it all up - it'll walk away.

We still visit a local pub 10 minutes away. By car. We still have a variety of places to visit and socialize. Most of them are not franchise joints where the corporate policy is about getting you in, selling you some service and getting you out so the next paying customer can sit down and repeat the process. ;) We're also minutes away from "outside" so if we want to go fishing or hunting or hiking or whatever we can. Joys of a small town.

There's a third kind of suburb, which is the pre-WWII "streetcar suburb" where the houses are not cookie-cutter and aren't subject to HOAs, the streets are a grid system (so high-traffic arterial roads can be avoided) and there are walkable small shops and things (a lot like a small town). They're technically no longer "suburbs" because they've mostly been annexed into whatever major city they're next to, but they still have a substantial proportion of single-family houses (or low-density things like duplexes and townhouses) with yards and sometimes even driveways, so they aren't "urban" either.

That's exactly the kind of suburb I live in. Our house was built in the 20s. The streetcar was three blocks over. The bungalow next door is identical to ours, so I guess that could be considered cookie cutter, though. But we've got stained glass windows, awesome millwork, etc. Walk five blocks south and you're in our mini-downtown with small shops and coffee houses. Go three blocks north and there's the elementary school my kids attend. I love my suburb.

Making Cookies

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #202 on: December 16, 2015, 03:16:08 PM »
That kind of suburb sounds very nice. We have those neighborhoods here around the local university. I could almost live there except for the kids, the hobbies and the dog. ;) Never any street cars here. Too small.