Author Topic: Forum check: what forum is this?  (Read 42546 times)

justajane

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #150 on: December 09, 2015, 02:05:04 PM »
.. so the $2 million/year guy if they live a style where they are happy with $2 things, then yes they are middle class to me...

This is just such a strange perspective to me. I'm having a hard time understanding your point of view.

So, just because Warren Buffett drives a Cadillac or a Subaru or a Toyota or whatever he's driving at the moment and seems to have modest tastes overall means he's middle class? Say what? His net worth is $66 billion. You can say I'm exaggerating from your $2 million a year example above, but why wouldn't it apply across the board? You don't seem to want to consider net worth or income in a calculation of class.

Alternately, say someone with a negative net worth buys a Louis Vuitton suitcase set on credit (really I have no idea about luxury goods, so I'm sure this is a pathetic example).....that makes them upper class?

justajane

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #151 on: December 09, 2015, 02:11:58 PM »
You stated people on 200k HHI can have a yacht and a private jet. How is that taking it out of context?? I'm pointing out how ridiculous some of the characterizations of what a 200k income looks like have been. If you don't want it "taken out of context" then stop being silly about it.  Is 200k rich? Sure. But it doesn't look like what you seem to think it looks like, or the words that you are choosing to describe the lifestyle of someone who HAS a 200k lifestyle. Even if they are spendypants about it, that's not what it looks like.

I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:

matchewed

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #152 on: December 09, 2015, 02:35:10 PM »
You stated people on 200k HHI can have a yacht and a private jet. How is that taking it out of context?? I'm pointing out how ridiculous some of the characterizations of what a 200k income looks like have been. If you don't want it "taken out of context" then stop being silly about it.  Is 200k rich? Sure. But it doesn't look like what you seem to think it looks like, or the words that you are choosing to describe the lifestyle of someone who HAS a 200k lifestyle. Even if they are spendypants about it, that's not what it looks like.

I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:



Ding ding ding. As I've clarified before 200k income gives you much more resources to use. That is not an inaccurate statement. If you choose to use those resources for a yacht or chartering jets fine, those two things were just illustrative as to how powerful those resources are. If I wanted a yacht and only earned 75k I'm sure I could do it given enough time. That doesn't mean I think everyone running around the planet who makes more than 75k has a yacht, that's where you're misinterpreting, mischaracterizing, or taking my posts out of context honeybbq.

elaine amj

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #153 on: December 09, 2015, 04:07:55 PM »
seriously? You would go around facepunching people whose lives aren't exactly as you prescribe it? If they somehow spend more than what you think is a "reasonable" cost? So do you facepunch everyone who spends more than you? Better not buy an extra water bottle when you are around...

This is what this whole thread is reads like to me... that earning $200k is somehow causing offense...

people come here because no matter what they earn, they want to get to FI, they reduce their spending. Not reduce what they earn. If some feel like $200k isn't much, and they are here to ask for help getting to FI, do you turn your back saying, oh you have it so easy, figure it out on your own... Do you help someone who earns $20k thinking it is an achievement if they get to FI?

And yes there are people here who want to FI with millions of dollars, or tens of millions, so what? Do you think people shouldn't be allowed here then? Just having a high goal/salary does not make it antimustachian and yet this is where the thread is? Because it is somehow bad to have a high income?

enjoying items that cost $2k instead of $20k, or even $2... if the $2 makes them as happy as the $20k one? Sure they can afford the $20k, but they don't... so if they make $20k, $200k or $2,000,000 does it make a difference? If someone makes $2million a year and you see them wearing a $2 jewelry, do you think they are being "cheap" because they can afford more? But if a minimum wage worker wears it, you find it acceptable? That's a personalty issue there, not because of what they earn, just someone thinking they "should" spend more because they earn more... so the $2 million/year guy if they live a style where they are happy with $2 things, then yes they are middle class to me... I could care less how much "more" they can afford, they don't, and that's that to me. What they have in the bank is not something that I have issue with

wow ...these are the types of posts that make me wonder what forum this is. Isn't the core of Mustachianism recognizing that so much of the stuff we spend on is an "exploding volcano of wastefulness"? Sure I don't follow everything nor am I hard-core. But I recognize what the site is trying to promote. And acknowledge it in my postings on here.

And yes, facepunches for a $10k bike is to be expected around here. You said yourself that ppl come on here for help reducing their spending. Of course ppl here should expect facepunches for any purchases not considered "reasonable". Whether you decide to buy it or not is your own decision - but you can't expect to come on the MMM website and not get facepunched for it. Getting a facepunch doesn't mean it is not a valid choice...it just means "think about it - does it really provide value to your life?" There's even a thread on here asking what conscious non-Mustachian spending choices folks have made.

And NOBODY said it is bad to have a high income. In fact, folks on here think it's great - because it gets you to FI sooner. But coming on here and insisting that everyone support you and laud you for wanting to be an insane consumerist - that's not what this place is about and I for one will be sad to see this community morph into one that celebrates consumerism.

dragoncar

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #154 on: December 09, 2015, 04:29:46 PM »
seriously? You would go around facepunching people whose lives aren't exactly as you prescribe it? If they somehow spend more than what you think is a "reasonable" cost? So do you facepunch everyone who spends more than you? Better not buy an extra water bottle when you are around...

This is what this whole thread is reads like to me... that earning $200k is somehow causing offense...

people come here because no matter what they earn, they want to get to FI, they reduce their spending. Not reduce what they earn. If some feel like $200k isn't much, and they are here to ask for help getting to FI, do you turn your back saying, oh you have it so easy, figure it out on your own... Do you help someone who earns $20k thinking it is an achievement if they get to FI?

And yes there are people here who want to FI with millions of dollars, or tens of millions, so what? Do you think people shouldn't be allowed here then? Just having a high goal/salary does not make it antimustachian and yet this is where the thread is? Because it is somehow bad to have a high income?

enjoying items that cost $2k instead of $20k, or even $2... if the $2 makes them as happy as the $20k one? Sure they can afford the $20k, but they don't... so if they make $20k, $200k or $2,000,000 does it make a difference? If someone makes $2million a year and you see them wearing a $2 jewelry, do you think they are being "cheap" because they can afford more? But if a minimum wage worker wears it, you find it acceptable? That's a personalty issue there, not because of what they earn, just someone thinking they "should" spend more because they earn more... so the $2 million/year guy if they live a style where they are happy with $2 things, then yes they are middle class to me... I could care less how much "more" they can afford, they don't, and that's that to me. What they have in the bank is not something that I have issue with

wow ...these are the types of posts that make me wonder what forum this is. Isn't the core of Mustachianism recognizing that so much of the stuff we spend on is an "exploding volcano of wastefulness"? Sure I don't follow everything nor am I hard-core. But I recognize what the site is trying to promote. And acknowledge it in my postings on here.

And yes, facepunches for a $10k bike is to be expected around here. You said yourself that ppl come on here for help reducing their spending. Of course ppl here should expect facepunches for any purchases not considered "reasonable". Whether you decide to buy it or not is your own decision - but you can't expect to come on the MMM website and not get facepunched for it. Getting a facepunch doesn't mean it is not a valid choice...it just means "think about it - does it really provide value to your life?" There's even a thread on here asking what conscious non-Mustachian spending choices folks have made.

And NOBODY said it is bad to have a high income. In fact, folks on here think it's great - because it gets you to FI sooner. But coming on here and insisting that everyone support you and laud you for wanting to be an insane consumerist - that's not what this place is about and I for one will be sad to see this community morph into one that celebrates consumerism.

"You make too much money! Reduce your income and come back to the forum later" 

- Nobody Ever

Astatine

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #155 on: December 09, 2015, 04:32:44 PM »
This thread is reminding me of Paul Allen's book, where he bitches that Bill Gates got a bigger share of Microsoft than he did and it's really not fair. Compared to most of the world, all of us here have obscene wealth and live in amazing luxury.

+1

I find the best way out of hedonic adaption or finding myself wanting more than I already have is look at what I have already and compare it globally. I live in a place where there is no war. I have clean, safe drinking water whenever I want it. I live in a house! With reliable electricity. I have easy access to medical care. I have a magic box that keeps my food cold and stops it from going off. And so on.

mm1970

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #156 on: December 09, 2015, 05:17:22 PM »

BPA

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #157 on: December 09, 2015, 05:44:04 PM »
"You make too much money! Reduce your income and come back to the forum later" 

- Nobody Ever

ha ha ha ha ha 

Thank you, Dragoncar!


JLee

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #158 on: December 09, 2015, 05:49:26 PM »
Thought this was appropriate to the discussion:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/middle-class/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

Quote
The median net worth of upper class families doubled between 1983 and 2013, up to $650,100.
But the wealth of the middle class has increased a near negligible 2% over that time to $98,100. At least they fared better than lower-income Americans, who saw their wealth drop 18% to $9,500.
For its wealth calculations, Pew used data from the Federal Reserve Bank's Survey of Consumer Finances, which defines net worth as all of a family's assets minus all their debts.
According to that, basically anyone who's FIRE'd here is classified as upper class, and $72,521/yr (single) puts you in the top 21% / upper class. Interesting.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #159 on: December 09, 2015, 06:05:16 PM »
Thought this was appropriate to the discussion:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/middle-class/index.html?iid=hp-stack-dom

Wow, perfect timing, and that is fascinating!  If you click through to the Pew Research Center report that the CNN Money article is about, you can find lots of interesting information, including this graphic:  http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middle-class-is-losing-ground/st_2015-12-09_middle-class-02/

arebelspy

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #160 on: December 10, 2015, 01:28:30 AM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

honeybbq

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #161 on: December 10, 2015, 09:40:41 AM »
You stated people on 200k HHI can have a yacht and a private jet. How is that taking it out of context?? I'm pointing out how ridiculous some of the characterizations of what a 200k income looks like have been. If you don't want it "taken out of context" then stop being silly about it.  Is 200k rich? Sure. But it doesn't look like what you seem to think it looks like, or the words that you are choosing to describe the lifestyle of someone who HAS a 200k lifestyle. Even if they are spendypants about it, that's not what it looks like.

I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:



Ding ding ding. As I've clarified before 200k income gives you much more resources to use. That is not an inaccurate statement. If you choose to use those resources for a yacht or chartering jets fine, those two things were just illustrative as to how powerful those resources are. If I wanted a yacht and only earned 75k I'm sure I could do it given enough time. That doesn't mean I think everyone running around the planet who makes more than 75k has a yacht, that's where you're misinterpreting, mischaracterizing, or taking my posts out of context honeybbq.

So, if you make "only" 50k a year, I should ask about how the cat food and top ramen tastes? I mean really. It could go the other way. You don't have to talk about yachts to describe that 200k has purchasing power. The same could be said the other way, you don't have to be disparaging about someone making 50k or less, either.  Yachts and private jets jokes are really reserved for the ultra-elite. As cat food and top ramen jokes are reserved for the ultra-poor. Ridiculous comparisons don't do anyone any good.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 09:43:08 AM by honeybbq »

matchewed

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #162 on: December 10, 2015, 09:42:59 AM »
You stated people on 200k HHI can have a yacht and a private jet. How is that taking it out of context?? I'm pointing out how ridiculous some of the characterizations of what a 200k income looks like have been. If you don't want it "taken out of context" then stop being silly about it.  Is 200k rich? Sure. But it doesn't look like what you seem to think it looks like, or the words that you are choosing to describe the lifestyle of someone who HAS a 200k lifestyle. Even if they are spendypants about it, that's not what it looks like.

I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:
*snip*


Ding ding ding. As I've clarified before 200k income gives you much more resources to use. That is not an inaccurate statement. If you choose to use those resources for a yacht or chartering jets fine, those two things were just illustrative as to how powerful those resources are. If I wanted a yacht and only earned 75k I'm sure I could do it given enough time. That doesn't mean I think everyone running around the planet who makes more than 75k has a yacht, that's where you're misinterpreting, mischaracterizing, or taking my posts out of context honeybbq.

So, if you make "only" 50k a year, I should ask about how the cat food and top ramen tastes? I mean really. It could go the other way. You don't have to talk about yachts to describe that 200k has purchasing power. The same could be said the other way, you don't have to be disparaging about someone making 50k or less, either.  Yachts and private jets jokes are really reserved for the ultra-elite. As cat food and top ramen jokes are reserved for the ultra-poor.

It's like you don't read what I write...

It's not reserved for whatever definition you're using for ultra-elite. I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k. I'm 100% confident I could charter a private jet if I made 200k. And as I stated before I'm sure I could do those things with a 75k income as well, it would just take longer. It's not some characterization of people making 200k that I'm talking about. I'm talking about how capable that resource is in buying/doing stuff. Do you see the difference in those two statements?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 09:49:48 AM by matchewed »

honeybbq

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #163 on: December 10, 2015, 09:43:23 AM »
Likewise.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #164 on: December 10, 2015, 09:47:29 AM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.

justajane

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #165 on: December 10, 2015, 09:54:17 AM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.


But that's your micro-area. I assure you the median household income in your city as a whole is not that high. The median for NYC is 50K. For Manhattan it's "only" 67K.

I'm assuming you live near NYC but obviously don't know for sure.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 09:56:40 AM by justajane »

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #166 on: December 10, 2015, 09:58:57 AM »
I'm on Long Island, Suffolk County is $95k, Nassau is $87k. Between the two counties we have a population of 7,568,000 so it's a pretty large sample size. I'm not saying this means we aren't better off financially than the rest of the country....but your dollar doesn't go nearly as far in certain areas.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #167 on: December 10, 2015, 10:30:11 AM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.

You live in an area with concentrated wealth. Are we going to start calling residents of the Hamptons with incomes half the median "poor" now?

brooklynguy

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #168 on: December 10, 2015, 10:32:36 AM »
Between the two counties we have a population of 7,568,000

Citation needed -- that number sounds wildly overstated.

But that's your micro-area.

My household income is north of $200k but it is the median income in the micro-micro-area that is my own household, so by that measure I am most definitely middle class (of course, in that sample size of one, my household income is also both the lowest and the highest in the distribution, so at the same time I am also lower-most class and upper-most class (and every other class in between)).

JZinCO

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #169 on: December 10, 2015, 11:32:19 AM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.
This is fairly true in some areas, but you would be mistaken to think the cost of living tracks with income.

The nationwide cost of living to median household income (in 1000s) ratio is 0.63
The median household income in Nassau County is 96K. The COL index is 154. The ratio is  0.62. The median person has the same relative purchasing power as nationwide.
However, where my family lives the median household income is 69K. The COL index is 93. The ratio is 0.74. The median person has more relative purchasing power as nationwide.
In Marin county the median household income is 61K. The COL is 131. The ratio is 0.47. The median person has less relative purchasing power as nationwide.

dragoncar

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #170 on: December 10, 2015, 12:02:05 PM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.

So basically we've come full circle again.  You guys up for One more round?

matchewed

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #171 on: December 10, 2015, 12:15:26 PM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.

So basically we've come full circle again.  You guys up for One more round?

Shane

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #172 on: December 10, 2015, 12:42:24 PM »
Some good definitions there. Apparently they quantify middle class as 2/3 to 2x the median income for that household size.

Thanks for directly linking the infographic, Raindrop.

My wife and I were middle class, though I felt like we were rich.

So yes, 200k is well into the upper class, for pretty much any household size.

I wonder how this would vary from geo area to geo area. For example, they use $126K a year as the upper barrier of middle class for america as a whole. That is using the median national income of $63k/year. I live in an area where the Median household income is ~$90-95k so double would be about $180-190k before you felt the same relative wealth.

So basically we've come full circle again.  You guys up for One more round?


No thanks. I'm over it already. :)

marcela

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #173 on: December 11, 2015, 08:31:07 AM »
You stated people on 200k HHI can have a yacht and a private jet. How is that taking it out of context?? I'm pointing out how ridiculous some of the characterizations of what a 200k income looks like have been. If you don't want it "taken out of context" then stop being silly about it.  Is 200k rich? Sure. But it doesn't look like what you seem to think it looks like, or the words that you are choosing to describe the lifestyle of someone who HAS a 200k lifestyle. Even if they are spendypants about it, that's not what it looks like.

I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:



Ding ding ding. As I've clarified before 200k income gives you much more resources to use. That is not an inaccurate statement. If you choose to use those resources for a yacht or chartering jets fine, those two things were just illustrative as to how powerful those resources are. If I wanted a yacht and only earned 75k I'm sure I could do it given enough time. That doesn't mean I think everyone running around the planet who makes more than 75k has a yacht, that's where you're misinterpreting, mischaracterizing, or taking my posts out of context honeybbq.

So, if you make "only" 50k a year, I should ask about how the cat food and top ramen tastes? I mean really. It could go the other way. You don't have to talk about yachts to describe that 200k has purchasing power. The same could be said the other way, you don't have to be disparaging about someone making 50k or less, either.  Yachts and private jets jokes are really reserved for the ultra-elite. As cat food and top ramen jokes are reserved for the ultra-poor. Ridiculous comparisons don't do anyone any good.

Yeah, as someone with a household income of $55k (a vast improvement over the $38k I had been making for the past 2 years) this thread is completely ridiculous.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2015, 09:46:02 AM »
Quote
I interpreted matchewed's original comment about yachts and jets that someone making 200K could on occasion have a taste of the high life by renting a yacht or chartering a plane once in a while. I didn't think he or she was implying that someone of that income level could own this:


Yeah, as someone with a household income of $55k (a vast improvement over the $38k I had been making for the past 2 years) this thread is completely ridiculous.
Hey - somebody has to scrub the decks ...

arebelspy

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #175 on: December 11, 2015, 01:57:23 PM »
Earlier the link for the PEW research center had stuff about what defines middle class (2/3 to 2x median income for your household size), and people brought up COL, well here it is broken down by state:
http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4

Click on image to zoom in.



(Cross posted to both threads discussing this.)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #176 on: December 11, 2015, 02:11:45 PM »
Great stuff! This is exactly where my mind was at when I made my original post.

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #177 on: December 11, 2015, 02:35:12 PM »
Dude, I can't even get through either of these threads. I live in one of most insanely HCOL areas and make a little under $100k/yr. Thanks to not spending ridiculous amounts of money for several years, I now own a home and my husband recently left his job that he hated and will be a SAHP pretty soon. We're no longer saving a ton of money by MMM standards, but we can easily afford our lifestyle and still save enough to keep our stache growing nicely. If you don't think $200k/yr is a fuck ton of money wherever you live, you are on the wrong forum.

Villanelle

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2015, 09:50:27 PM »
We make very roughly $120k/yr total (military pay is complicated) in a supremely expensive area.  That cahrt is great, but for a large and diverse state like CA, it still leaves a lot to be desired. (CA is cheaper then Minnesota?  lol)  Single family homes in our current town start at about $750/sqft.  I recall a study last year that this metropolitan area was in the top 5 least affordable (either for housing, or overall--I can't recall).  TL;DR It's really friggin expensive here.

And I feel extremely wealthy.  Before this thread, I would have said "upper middle class", but only because to me, upper class is tens or hundreds of millions--extreme wealth (.5%, vs 5%).  But I certainly recognize how much we have, and can readily accept that by many definitions, we are upper class.  To live with this kind of money, even in a high COL area, and think one is average and middle and not exceptionally ahead of most is staggeringly myopic. 

I think rich (5% or 1% or .5%) people can by mustachian.  But I think part of doing so would have to be recognizing one's reality.  And even if that person is eating the same beans as truly poor person, and washing his own socks, mowing his own lawn, and skipping cable, the fact that he can invest hundreds or thousands of dollars a months while doing so makes all the difference.  Living on $20,000 because you make $20,000 is not even in the same ballpark as living on $20,000 because you make $220,000 and want to retire in less than 5 years.  Heck, even if you live on $20,000 because you make $120,000 and have $90,000 in credit card debt is still a different animal.  You are paying for your past stupidity and for your $20,000 lifestyle, so you're still purchasing a lot more than just the $20k. 

Jacana

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #179 on: December 12, 2015, 06:25:20 AM »
Between the two counties we have a population of 7,568,000

Citation needed -- that number sounds wildly overstated.

Uh, yeah it is! That number is for all of geographic LI, including Queens and Kings (ha! Like anyone knows where Kings county is, just rename it Brooklyn already), according to Newsday data from the 2010 census.

http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/census/county-population-estimates-2012/

Nassau and Suffolk alone (political LI) look to be about 3 million. Still a whole shitload of people. Glad I got out. And ended up outside DC. Wow. Fail.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #180 on: December 13, 2015, 10:35:55 PM »

Nassau and Suffolk alone (political LI) look to be about 3 million. Still a whole shitload of people. Glad I got out. And ended up outside DC. Wow. Fail.

Heh. I got out, too--and ended up in San Jose, CA. All the same tract houses and strip malls I was trying to get away from.

Quote
(ha! Like anyone knows where Kings county is, just rename it Brooklyn already),

It's not far from the borough of Richmond, right? :)

pancakes

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #181 on: December 14, 2015, 04:04:16 AM »
I didn't read this thread in full but in Australia recently this was published by our public broadcaster and I found it quite interesting:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-28/social-class-survey-where-you-fit-in-australia/6869864

I would think of myself as middle class at best prior to taking to the quiz but come out as "emerging affluent". Our combined household income is just over $160k including superannuation contributions and before tax - hardly chart topping.

I find this forum to be a downer sometimes as I can't help but compare myself to other people who are kicking some serious butt. My achievements can easily seem minuscule in comparison.

Gen Y Finance Journey

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #182 on: December 14, 2015, 05:45:58 PM »

Nassau and Suffolk alone (political LI) look to be about 3 million. Still a whole shitload of people. Glad I got out. And ended up outside DC. Wow. Fail.

Heh. I got out, too--and ended up in San Jose, CA. All the same tract houses and strip malls I was trying to get away from.

Wait a minute, I left Long Island and ended up in San Jose too. :)

soupcxan

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #183 on: December 14, 2015, 06:15:23 PM »
I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k.

You couldn't even afford the taxes, maintenance, gas, dock, insurance, and crew for a $1M yacht on $200k/year ($150k after taxes), let alone that plus the principal and interest (assuming you could even qualify for a loan, which you wouldn't).

Did you mean you could charter one for a week? Because that's not the same thing at all.

dragoncar

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #184 on: December 14, 2015, 06:42:29 PM »
I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k.

You couldn't even afford the taxes, maintenance, gas, dock, insurance, and crew for a $1M yacht on $200k/year ($150k after taxes), let alone that plus the principal and interest (assuming you could even qualify for a loan, which you wouldn't).

Did you mean you could charter one for a week? Because that's not the same thing at all.

Everyone knows Mustachians do their own maintenance, anchor out, get great MPG, self-insure, and self-crew.  They even make a little side money renting out their yacht for corporate events.

Seriously, though, there are taxes on yachts?

human

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #185 on: December 14, 2015, 06:54:47 PM »
Maybe not taxes exactly but in Canada you would have to pay employment insurance and cpp premiums for your workers.

matchewed

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #186 on: December 14, 2015, 07:02:33 PM »
I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k.

You couldn't even afford the taxes, maintenance, gas, dock, insurance, and crew for a $1M yacht on $200k/year ($150k after taxes), let alone that plus the principal and interest (assuming you could even qualify for a loan, which you wouldn't).

Did you mean you could charter one for a week? Because that's not the same thing at all.

Everyone knows Mustachians do their own maintenance, anchor out, get great MPG, self-insure, and self-crew.  They even make a little side money renting out their yacht for corporate events.

Seriously, though, there are taxes on yachts?

Also where else will OMY syndrome come from.

MgoSam

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #187 on: December 14, 2015, 07:52:32 PM »

Seriously, though, there are taxes on yachts?

There would be depending on where it is licensed or whatever the term is. The reason why you see a lot of yachts with Cayman Islands is that they are part of the English commonwealth, and so you get protect by Her Majesty's Royal Navy, and can shield your assets as Cayman is a great place for privacy and hiding assets.

For taxes I believe there is a loophole that if your yacht is listed for charting, you can claim it as exempt from taxes. I'm not sure if that's all taxes, but yeah. That's why the famous superyachts like Eclipse are listed on charter yacht pages, even though I don't believe they are actually meant to be taken out as a charter.

JZinCO

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #188 on: December 14, 2015, 08:42:07 PM »
I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k.

You couldn't even afford the taxes, maintenance, gas, dock, insurance, and crew for a $1M yacht on $200k/year ($150k after taxes), let alone that plus the principal and interest (assuming you could even qualify for a loan, which you wouldn't).

Did you mean you could charter one for a week? Because that's not the same thing at all.

Everyone knows Mustachians do their own maintenance, anchor out, get great MPG, self-insure, and self-crew.  They even make a little side money renting out their yacht for corporate events.

Seriously, though, there are taxes on yachts?
psh I entertain for business on my yacht so I can write off mooring, depreciation.
Plus It uses pedal power.

sooo money mustache

johnny847

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #189 on: December 14, 2015, 09:13:52 PM »
I'm 100% confident that if I wanted to I could afford a million dollar yacht if I made 200k.

You couldn't even afford the taxes, maintenance, gas, dock, insurance, and crew for a $1M yacht on $200k/year ($150k after taxes), let alone that plus the principal and interest (assuming you could even qualify for a loan, which you wouldn't).

Did you mean you could charter one for a week? Because that's not the same thing at all.

Everyone knows Mustachians do their own maintenance, anchor out, get great MPG, self-insure, and self-crew.  They even make a little side money renting out their yacht for corporate events.

Seriously, though, there are taxes on yachts?
psh I entertain for business on my yacht so I can write off mooring, depreciation.
Plus It uses pedal power.

sooo money mustache

Hahaha I approve =)

Pooperman

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #190 on: December 15, 2015, 05:19:29 AM »
I built a raft yacht once. It sunk over the winter (it was made of wood logs).

cerat0n1a

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #191 on: December 15, 2015, 05:38:32 AM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!

MgoSam

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2015, 07:41:43 AM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!

Yeah, I've heard such things and just shake my head. An uncle of mine cares about class status and moved to the US. He is worth an absolute fortune, but couldn't get invited to the cool stuff, and him and his wife care enough so they moved to the US and love being accepted into the right crowd.

jinga nation

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #193 on: December 15, 2015, 11:39:27 AM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!
Or you donate significant quids to the Tory or Labour govenments and be crowned a Baron, Lord, Whatchamacallit!
Born into or buy into.

dragoncar

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #194 on: December 15, 2015, 11:51:40 AM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!
Or you donate significant quids to the Tory or Labour govenments and be crowned a Baron, Lord, Whatchamacallit!
Born into or buy into.

But doesn't everyone know you bought the lordship and mock you for it?

cerat0n1a

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2015, 01:06:47 PM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!
Or you donate significant quids to the Tory or Labour govenments and be crowned a Baron, Lord, Whatchamacallit!
Born into or buy into.

Still doesn't make you properly upper class in the eyes of those who are. Your children might be though, if they go to the right school.  You need to have quite a few generations between you and the people who committed the atrocities to get the title in the first place for it to really count.

For anyone thinking of trying this, you can get a title a lot cheaper by donating to the liberal democrats. If you acquired the money in a what may be viewed as a dubious fashion - perhaps owning entirely legitimate banks in offshore centres that (coincidentally) bad people use for laundering drugs money, then the Tories may be a better bet. And buying a title is still (in theory) illegal.

Making Cookies

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #196 on: December 15, 2015, 03:25:23 PM »
Sure, but will $50k in NYC buy what $35k does in BFE. I don't think so, though maybe I'm wrong *shrug*. I get Dollar Slice's point about the livable rents, but I still think you have to compare ability to consume, which comes down to income and buying power. Renting isn't the same as owning. Taking transit isn't the same as driving your car. Can you own a house, have a couple of cars, have 2.1 kids, send them kids to good schools, eat out, take vacations overseas, save for retirement, etc. on $50k in Manhattan? I'd wager not, but I a middle class family in the heartland should be able to. I don't know what middle class in NYC looks like, but I don't accept that it's the median income.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you get to live in Manhattan.  Living in Manhattan is the driving a Lamborghini of the housing world.

It sure is! :-) 

To me, life in the suburbs with a couple of kids, a couple of cars, and home ownership sounds like a special kind of hell. Having to drag a ton and a half of metal around with you everywhere you go and find a place to put it when you're doing stuff? Having to pay thousands and thousands of dollars in realtor fees every time you move? All for the privilege of not having to interact with other human beings so much? Ugh.

Well, there are suburbs and there are suburbs. The first kind - that isn't appealing to me involves living a mile or less from all the shopping in the world. Malls, strip retail, big box retail, etc and creating a lifestyle that revolves around these things. Miles of cookie-cutter homes. Prefabricated everything including nature. Raze the land and replant only what you want to be there. Watching the kid shows where everybody strives to hang out at the mall. Purgatory to me and mine. ;)

The other kind of suburb means space and privacy. An acre or more for the family to play on. Room enough that my circular saw or grinder isn't going to raise the ire of the nearest neighbor. My dog isn't going to attract a dog catcher. My kids can ride their bikes without doing so along a busy feeder street. We can build a shed or a gazebo or a screened in porch without attracting the legal power of an HOA. I like my neighbors but I don't want to live WITH my neighbors aka share walls/floors with them. I don't want a parking space - I want a driveway. I don't want to lock up everything outside b/c I need to go spend a few minutes in the loo b/c if I don't lock it all up - it'll walk away.

We still visit a local pub 10 minutes away. By car. We still have a variety of places to visit and socialize. Most of them are not franchise joints where the corporate policy is about getting you in, selling you some service and getting you out so the next paying customer can sit down and repeat the process. ;) We're also minutes away from "outside" so if we want to go fishing or hunting or hiking or whatever we can. Joys of a small town.

I'm pretty sure my income MIGHT be enough to pay for that yacht above to pull away from the dock, turn away and tie up again... ;)

Around here a "middle class" yacht is commonly a "party barge" (pontoon boat) or a ski-boat. Of course this requires a substantial tow vehicle for the local steep launch ramps and my four cylinder grocery getter probably isn't up to it... ;)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 03:54:03 PM by Joe Average »

Villanelle

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #197 on: December 15, 2015, 04:39:20 PM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!

One can also marry a prince, no?

nobodyspecial

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #198 on: December 15, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!

One can also marry a prince, no?
The royal family aren't upper class - bunch of nouveau riche foreigners

protostache

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Re: Forum check: what forum is this?
« Reply #199 on: December 16, 2015, 07:17:32 AM »
You should all come to Britain. No amount of wealth would make you upper class - you have to be born into it!

One can also marry a prince, no?
The royal family aren't upper class - bunch of nouveau riche foreigners

This is my favorite comment of this entire thread. Including the one with the picture of the beautiful yacht.