Author Topic: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.  (Read 9064 times)

Tacosrocket

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Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« on: February 12, 2014, 05:29:27 AM »
~I haven't done or said anything to him about any of this, just told him to read this blog (he doesn't want to, though).

My little brother went out of state straight to university, spent the extra on that, + the room/board + netflix, + weed + I don't know all while planning to major only in music... they wouldn't let his mom be a co-signer for the loan, so they kicked him out and now he's in debt. This last Christmas was the year he and his friends decided it would be fun to just purchase tons and tons of gifts for each other (he wrapped at least 4 gifts for 1 person I think, just one). Bought a car that needs work instead of one that runs good (he is not a mechanic by any means, also there are fast food wrappers hanging around in there), travels across cities every weekend because he likes it over there I guess (have no idea what he does over there)... has the opportunity to live with my parents and I for free while he works out his debt, paying for an apartment with friends instead (because roommates have never screwed anyone over, unlike rich grandparents (who I was adopted by but he wasn't)).

I tried to get him to read and listen to MMM, but I don't think he will because he's to good to need help and he already knows everything anyway.

MMM, we're some fellow Coloradans if you want to come over here and smack some sense into his smooth, bairn face. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 05:13:15 AM by Tobi »

jpo

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 07:20:41 AM »
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

GuitarStv

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 09:18:18 AM »
Ah . . . the stereotypical liberal arts major.  Let him enjoy his life now, as it will be progressively shittier from here on.

Undecided

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 09:32:58 AM »
Ah . . . the stereotypical liberal arts major.  Let him enjoy his life now, as it will be progressively shittier from here on.

I know there's an anti-liberal arts contingent here for some reason, but music is within the fine arts, not the liberal arts, "Guitar"Stv.

galliver

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 10:10:41 AM »
I think it sounds like he doesn't know what he wants to do/can do/should do in his life. He's masking his uncertainty with the socializing and spending, and doesn't want to think about the painful problems (e.g. debts) because they're (extremely) anxiety-inducing.  I'm willing to bet there are questions of self worth tied up in his dropping out and his debt, and that those are harder to confront than the spending issues themselves.

You can't approach this from a purely financial perspective when there's such a significant psychological component, too.

Eric

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 10:20:45 AM »
My little brother went out of state straight to university, spent the extra on that, + the room/board + netflix, + weed + I don't know all while planning to major only in music... they wouldn't let his mom be a co-signer for the loan, so they kicked him out and now he's in debt. This last Christmas was the year he and his friends decided it would be fun to just purchase tons and tons of gifts for each other (he wrapped at least 4 gifts for 1 person I think, just one). Bought a car that needs work instead of one that runs good (he is not a mechanic by any means, also there are fast food wrappers hanging around in there), travels across cities every weekend because he likes it over there I guess (have no idea what he does over there)... has the opportunity to live with my parents and I for free while he works out his debt, paying for an apartment with friends instead (because roommates have never screwed anyone over, unlike rich grandparents (who I was adopted by but he wasn't)).

I tried to get him to read and listen to MMM, but I don't think he will because he's to good to need help and he already knows everything anyway.

MMM, we're some fellow Coloradans if you want to come over here and smack some sense into his smooth, bairn face.

He's obviously not in a great situation, but you're glossing over what were some pretty decent choices.  He didn't buy a brand new car.  He lives with roommates instead of alone.  He has food wrappers from McD's instead of matchbooks from Ruth's Chris.  It sounds like he has a job, right?  He doesn't ask you for money, right?  It could be a lot worse.

GuitarStv

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 10:33:49 AM »
Ah . . . the stereotypical liberal arts major.  Let him enjoy his life now, as it will be progressively shittier from here on.

I know there's an anti-liberal arts contingent here for some reason, but music is within the fine arts, not the liberal arts, "Guitar"Stv.

I'm not against any arts programs.  He just appears to be living the stereotype.

Quote from: wiki article on liberal arts
Some subsections of the liberal arts are trivium葉he verbal arts: logic, grammar, and rhetoric; and quadrivium葉he numerical arts: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

senecando

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 10:41:40 AM »
GuitarStv: People haven't really been using that definition for a few hundred years. Most astronomers and mathematicians wouldn't call themselves Liberal Arts students. (FWIW, I like this definition better.)

Tacosrocket

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 06:28:37 PM »
My little brother went out of state straight to university, spent the extra on that, + the room/board + netflix, + weed + I don't know all while planning to major only in music... they wouldn't let his mom be a co-signer for the loan, so they kicked him out and now he's in debt. This last Christmas was the year he and his friends decided it would be fun to just purchase tons and tons of gifts for each other (he wrapped at least 4 gifts for 1 person I think, just one). Bought a car that needs work instead of one that runs good (he is not a mechanic by any means, also there are fast food wrappers hanging around in there), travels across cities every weekend because he likes it over there I guess (have no idea what he does over there)... has the opportunity to live with my parents and I for free while he works out his debt, paying for an apartment with friends instead (because roommates have never screwed anyone over, unlike rich grandparents (who I was adopted by but he wasn't)).

I tried to get him to read and listen to MMM, but I don't think he will because he's to good to need help and he already knows everything anyway.

MMM, we're some fellow Coloradans if you want to come over here and smack some sense into his smooth, bairn face.

He's obviously not in a great situation, but you're glossing over what were some pretty decent choices.  He didn't buy a brand new car.  He lives with roommates instead of alone.  He has food wrappers from McD's instead of matchbooks from Ruth's Chris.  It sounds like he has a job, right?  He doesn't ask you for money, right?  It could be a lot worse.

Yes, he didn't buy a new car. But he bought a shitty old one, instead of a nice running old one. And yes, he is getting roommates. but he could be living here for FREE with all of his meals provided for him, get a good discount on car insurance being on my parents plan and even get health insurance for free, plus no risk of being screwed over. He's not even old enough to drink, there's no shame in living with family.

As for the money thing, I've taken over his netflix account (since his bank account is always in the red) and I'm probably going to give it back to him to find someone else to foot the bill (he was going to pay me back, which lasted a whole 2 months) I really enjoy netflix but at the end of the day it is a luxury.


Tacosrocket

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 06:34:16 PM »
I think it sounds like he doesn't know what he wants to do/can do/should do in his life. He's masking his uncertainty with the socializing and spending, and doesn't want to think about the painful problems (e.g. debts) because they're (extremely) anxiety-inducing.  I'm willing to bet there are questions of self worth tied up in his dropping out and his debt, and that those are harder to confront than the spending issues themselves.

You can't approach this from a purely financial perspective when there's such a significant psychological component, too.

Yes and he isn't going to listen to me... in his mind, people who want to give help can only be doing it out of pity, which he finds damaging to his self confidence.

He's also teaching some of this bad attitude to our little sister (I grew up apart from them, they always lived together) which is just great.

How do you help someone who is offended by help? D:

Little Nell

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 10:18:52 PM »
Senecando,
The liberal arts include the natural sciences as well as the humanities. What they do not include is technical fields.

gooki

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 11:27:09 PM »
How do you help someone who is offended by help? D:

You let them fail.

Tacosrocket

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 01:11:28 AM »
How do you help someone who is offended by help? D:

You let them fail.

I don't think I have a choice... It will just be very hard to watch, but maybe seeing what I do he'll try and copy it or something  (with time and success at being frugal and educated).... he may not respect me, but I'm still his big sister damn it.


Wanderer

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 03:39:46 AM »
but he could be living here for FREE with all of his meals provided for him, get a good discount on car insurance being on my parents plan and even get health insurance for free, plus no risk of being screwed over. He's not even old enough to drink, there's no shame in living with family.

Frankly I'd rather have a little brother who was trying to live independently, trying to make good choices, and not getting it quite right to one who just boomeranged home at the first hint of difficulty because it's so much easier that way. 

He probably wants independence.  The fastest way for him to sort things out is if you give it to him.  Give his Netflix plan back to him, if he can't keep it going he can cancel it.  It's tough, but stop trying to tell him what to do, unless he's about to do something horribly irrevocably damaging. 

Part of adult sibling relationships is relating as peers, even if you think he's not ready.  If you keep acting like he needs you to hold his hand as he crosses the street I don't see this relationship getting any easier down the road. 

Ayanka

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 04:49:39 AM »
I have a younger brother too, so I can relate to a part of your feelings. Yes, he isn't always doing as good as I expect it (he has failed at least one class for several years). If your brother is too young to drink, he is young enough to make mistakes and have time to correct them before anything goes horribly wrong. He is trying to find his own way, to find his identity if you want to call it that way. Just let him do that and try to stop commenting on his ways. He won't be listening to it, anyhow, so no use making a fuss of it. Instead, try to treat him as the young adult he is and not as your baby brother. He might be picking up far more from you from a positive relationship than from a negative one. After all which you man wants to listen to his family members anyhow?

Tacosrocket

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2014, 05:06:35 AM »
but he could be living here for FREE with all of his meals provided for him, get a good discount on car insurance being on my parents plan and even get health insurance for free, plus no risk of being screwed over. He's not even old enough to drink, there's no shame in living with family.

Frankly I'd rather have a little brother who was trying to live independently, trying to make good choices, and not getting it quite right to one who just boomeranged home at the first hint of difficulty because it's so much easier that way. 

He probably wants independence.  The fastest way for him to sort things out is if you give it to him.  Give his Netflix plan back to him, if he can't keep it going he can cancel it.  It's tough, but stop trying to tell him what to do, unless he's about to do something horribly irrevocably damaging. 

Part of adult sibling relationships is relating as peers, even if you think he's not ready.  If you keep acting like he needs you to hold his hand as he crosses the street I don't see this relationship getting any easier down the road.

All I'm saying is that he has some pretty mustachian options right now, and is running directly away from them.  He's not even attempting to make good decisions. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was trying to head butt in his life, I suggested reading this blog, that's it. I haven't done or said anything else about it. Frankly, I don't want to, I think this sucks. Oh well, he'll learn later if he isn't in too deep with the self medicating habit.

-I only got the Netflix bill because I use it, not to help him.

Rant over. ~ Thanks for replying.

Tacosrocket

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2014, 05:12:21 AM »
I have a younger brother too, so I can relate to a part of your feelings. Yes, he isn't always doing as good as I expect it (he has failed at least one class for several years). If your brother is too young to drink, he is young enough to make mistakes and have time to correct them before anything goes horribly wrong. He is trying to find his own way, to find his identity if you want to call it that way. Just let him do that and try to stop commenting on his ways. He won't be listening to it, anyhow, so no use making a fuss of it. Instead, try to treat him as the young adult he is and not as your baby brother. He might be picking up far more from you from a positive relationship than from a negative one. After all which you man wants to listen to his family members anyhow?

-I haven't said a word to him except to read MMM (which he doesn't want to do). This was the perfect story for the subject of the tread and a rant of frustration, not a cry for help. (how do you help someone who is offended by help - part of the rant).

But you are right, there will be time to fix everything, I just don't see it happening very easily, but like I said, maybe he will want to know what I did different one day, then I'll just send him here again like I tried to do years ago ;P

Thanks for replying~

Daleth

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2014, 08:41:50 AM »
Quote from: wiki article on liberal arts
Some subsections of the liberal arts are trivium葉he verbal arts: logic, grammar, and rhetoric; and quadrivium葉he numerical arts: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

Dude, the trivium and quadrivium are MEDIEVAL (literally) concepts. That's how education was defined right about, oh, say, 700-1200 years ago. This is not how "liberal arts" are defined these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium
"In medieval universities, the trivium comprised the three subjects that were taught first: grammar, logic and rhetoric.... This study was preparatory for the quadrivium, which consists of geometry, arithmetic, astronomy, and music."

GuitarStv

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2014, 08:44:25 AM »
I'm very, very old.

senecando

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2014, 09:05:01 AM »
Little Nell: When? I generally agree with that idea. (I went to a weirdo school that studies mathematics, astronomy, biology etc. under the banner of the liberal arts--I'm under the impression that's now pretty rare.) But, I don't think that is the common understanding, at least when people are using liberal arts is the dismissive way it's often used.

I usually think that people hold one of the following ideas, but usually not both: a) that studying the liberal arts entails studying the trivium and quadrivium and b) liberal arts students are stereotypically stoner-slackers. If we're actually relying on the Medieval definition of the liberal arts, there are not enough liberal arts students for there to be stereotypes.

(Unless a Liberal Arts student is someone who studies *any* of those fields, then sure, everyone is a Liberal Arts student.)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 09:08:32 AM by senecando »

GuitarStv

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2014, 09:18:49 AM »
I'd like to retract my apparently controversial 'liberal arts' comment in light of my apparently not knowing what the fuck liberal arts actually is.  :P

senecando

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2014, 09:20:33 AM »
I'd like to retract my apparently controversial 'liberal arts' comment in light of my apparently not knowing what the fuck liberal arts actually is.  :P

Back to the question of the Debt-ridden Stoner!

(Derailment was probably my fault. Apologies all.)

galliver

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2014, 10:53:32 AM »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2014, 11:04:18 AM »
but he could be living here for FREE with all of his meals provided for him, get a good discount on car insurance being on my parents plan and even get health insurance for free, plus no risk of being screwed over. He's not even old enough to drink, there's no shame in living with family.

Frankly I'd rather have a little brother who was trying to live independently, trying to make good choices, and not getting it quite right to one who just boomeranged home at the first hint of difficulty because it's so much easier that way. 

He probably wants independence.  The fastest way for him to sort things out is if you give it to him.  Give his Netflix plan back to him, if he can't keep it going he can cancel it.  It's tough, but stop trying to tell him what to do, unless he's about to do something horribly irrevocably damaging. 

Part of adult sibling relationships is relating as peers, even if you think he's not ready.  If you keep acting like he needs you to hold his hand as he crosses the street I don't see this relationship getting any easier down the road.

+1

my little sister is 20. she doesn't always do everything exactly the way I'd do it (buys a shit ton of clothes [although she's also an amazing thrifter and bargain-hunter], FAILED A CLASS last semester--this is unfathomable to me!--etc.) but I still wait until she asks for help. then, hell yeah I'm an opinionated older sister and I'll let her know what I think... but I still try not to be condescending about it. you're coming off as really condescending.

I'm very, very old.

Made me laugh :D

me too!

Ms Betterhome

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2014, 04:05:33 PM »
He needs to learn his lessons himself - no one can learn them for him. I was a smartassed, underemployed jerk in my early 20s, & didn't even get my act together to start my bachelor's degree til 24. At 46, I earn 6 figures, live very frugally, only debt is my mortgage, & I'm paying it down fast.

I didn't change because someone told me to change, though. I changed because I figured out that I was my own worst enemy, and I needed to stop living on my credit cards & start earning. I imagine your little brother will figure this out, too.

sheepstache

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2014, 05:11:00 PM »
The title keeps reminding me of the Lily Allen song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXxo5QFF88

SwordGuy

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2014, 05:47:59 PM »
Quote from: wiki article on liberal arts
Some subsections of the liberal arts are trivium葉he verbal arts: logic, grammar, and rhetoric; and quadrivium葉he numerical arts: arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy.

Dude, the trivium and quadrivium are MEDIEVAL (literally) concepts. That's how education was defined right about, oh, say, 700-1200 years ago. This is not how "liberal arts" are defined these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivium
"In medieval universities, the trivium comprised the three subjects that were taught first: grammar, logic and rhetoric.... This study was preparatory for the quadrivium, which consists of geometry, arithmetic, astronomy, and music."

Well, hey, I put on medieval armour and hit people with swords, glaives, maces, axes, halberds, spears and daggers.  Oh, year, and war hammers.

I think it's an excellent definition that's stood the test of time.

But I could be biased... :)

Melody

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2014, 06:02:40 PM »
When I've talked to younger friends about Student Loan Debt, it doesn't sink in until I say "that's $500 a month for 4 years coming out of your pay cheque" (i.e. what would be considered "modest and manageable" debt of $20k + subsidised interest rate). Could you try this tactic... it's a big wake up call to friends who then realise their payments are likely to take up 20%+ of their after tax income for four years after graduating...

MsSindy

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Re: Little brother buying weed, ignoring debt.
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 11:13:04 AM »
He needs to learn his lessons himself - no one can learn them for him. I was a smartassed, underemployed jerk in my early 20s, & didn't even get my act together to start my bachelor's degree til 24. At 46, I earn 6 figures, live very frugally, only debt is my mortgage, & I'm paying it down fast.

I didn't change because someone told me to change, though. I changed because I figured out that I was my own worst enemy, and I needed to stop living on my credit cards & start earning. I imagine your little brother will figure this out, too.

Hey, this is me, too!  Well, except I wasn't a jerk  :)   I was too busy having fun and figuring out what I wanted to do with my life to listen to advice.....slowly I settled down and matured.  Everyone learns life at a different pace and takes different avenues along the way.