Author Topic: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks  (Read 25666 times)

brewer12345

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Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« on: August 13, 2013, 10:13:08 AM »
I know I should have a tin ear for this stuff by now, but I just cannot help but shake my head:

- Was catching up with an old friend that DW and I have known for 20 years.  He married one of DW's friends from high school, but in the interim they have become heavily indebted  due to wild overspending and the marriage is not good (to put it mildly).  My friend was saying how much they enjoyed a recent tent camping trip with friends but that they were thinking about a trailer.  "If you put down 10%, they give you a 10 year no interest loan - that is basically free money so why not?"  I asked him if they really need another payment now, which he shrugged off.  Later in the conversation he mentioned that they are going to be done paying off the last car loan in a few months, which is why they are presumably cosidering going into hock for a trailer.  The worst part is that this is the guy who won't get divorced from his abusive spouse because he knows he can't afford it (they would both go bankrupt within 6 months of a divorce filing).

- SIL was concerned because with BIL being made a part time 1099 contractor rather than a W2 full time employee 7 months ago they won't qualify for an agency mortgage and they want a bigger house.  She asked if I could look into whether there are lenders who would do this.  I did so and gave her a contact.  A few days later I hear from DW that SIL is under contract for an almost 400k house that requires a 25k new deck and which they will have to remodel the top floor of to get the right number of bedrooms/layout.  The house is in a mountain community which will almost certainly require them to buy at least one 4WD vehicle on top of that.

None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Joshin

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 11:10:48 AM »
I have a Facebook acquaintance (we both volunteer for the same organization) that's pretty bad. I know exactly when her payday is because the next week her feed is foursquare check-ins at expensive restaurants and the Apple store. She'll spend a week bragging about all the expensive things they bought or did, then the following week is filled with posts begging for food until payday, school supplies, and other necessary items she now can't afford. It's seems like every week she is buying her kids some fancy gadget then complaining the next week because she has to pawn it.

What gets me is she is hypercritical of anything I post. For example, I recently posted that we finished the kids' fall clothes shopping at thrift stores and garage sales, then my oldest opted to make us smoothies at home to cool down instead of going out for ice cream. Her comment? "Lol, too cheap for ice cream, really? Oh, and I would never let my kids be seen in used clothes!" The funniest thing ever (in a sad way) was when she tried to mock me for buying an "ancient" 2003 vehicle in cash, when she had just had her car repoed a few weeks before.

It's sad and I've thought about blocking her feed but I'm too selfish. It's watching these train wrecks that keep me on track when I'm feeling weak.

hybrid

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 11:54:32 AM »
I bailed on Facebook after a few years, just not worth it after a while.  The social protocols seem to break down as in the examples above.

That, and I know quite a few people that would love to be in the position I am in today (many of whom dug their own financial graves), so how do you go there on Facebook?  A hypothetical example....

Post - "Saved $60 this month packing lunches for work.  Woohoo!"

Reply - "Why are you being so cheap?"

Reply you want to send but don't dare - "Because unlike you I don't spend every two nickels I can rub together!"


mpbaker22

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 12:08:05 PM »
What gets me is she is hypercritical of anything I post. For example, I recently posted that we finished the kids' fall clothes shopping at thrift stores and garage sales, then my oldest opted to make us smoothies at home to cool down instead of going out for ice cream. Her comment? "Lol, too cheap for ice cream, really? Oh, and I would never let my kids be seen in used clothes!" The funniest thing ever (in a sad way) was when she tried to mock me for buying an "ancient" 2003 vehicle in cash, when she had just had her car repoed a few weeks before.

I think if she's going to 'attack' you like that, there's really nothing wrong with pointing out that you'll still have the car in 5 years.

superhero

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 01:47:15 PM »
You don't have to make excuses for ER, but just be prepared for crazy amounts of questions regarding your lack of employment. It's just not worth it to have people tell you how lucky you are (even if we have been) or how impossible it is to achieve FI. Ever seen the MMM Yahoo, etc comments? It's like those, but in real life.

We have two people living with us who have been out of jobs for a while now. One got a job down where we live, so we decided to help them out for a bit so they could get on their feet and find a place to live. Since they're family, I've been telling them about MMM principles and gave them YMOYL to read. I really want them to get on the right track and get out of the rut they're in. They got their first paycheck at the beginning of this month, and what do they do? Buy tons of alcohol, and a FitBit. It's like... come on. Can't you at least save your first paycheck?

huadpe

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 02:56:12 PM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Short answer: because if you don't hide your money they'll want it.

brewer12345

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 02:59:33 PM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Short answer: because if you don't hide your money they'll want it.

Easy solution: you cannot have it.  Save your own!

Eric

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 03:39:05 PM »
Oh, and I would never let my kids be seen in used clothes!"

Hahahahaha.  Wear them once and then throw them away?  Because, newsflash, they're ALL used clothes now, no matter how you bought them.

brewer12345

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 03:43:52 PM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Short answer: because if you don't hide your money they'll want it.

Easy solution: you cannot have it.  Save your own!
That won't keep them from asking at first, and then resenting you later for not sharing. Not saying they have any right to resent you, just be prepared for it and cause awkward situations

Nah, I don't think it will be a problem for family and close friends.  Everyone else can suck it.

Zamboni

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 05:14:37 PM »
Quote
They got their first paycheck at the beginning of this month, and what do they do? Buy tons of alcohol, and a FitBit.

Lol, classic, and I know someone exactly like this, but I won't mock him bc I love him.

Quote
Oh, and I would never let my kids be seen in used clothes!"

Because people would know they are used . . . how?  I buy all my kids clothes used if I can.  When they outgrow them I pass them to my brother's family,  and his kids also get to look swank.  Just when the tots were starting to show signs of getting snooty about this (thanks to my MIL who makes comments like the quote above all the time) that song "Thrift Shop" came out and not only was it cool again, but they wanted to go and "look for a come up" on the tables with me.

mpbaker22

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 05:24:21 PM »
Buy tons of alcohol, and a FitBit. It's like... come on. Can't you at least save your first paycheck?

Sounds like they spent it immediately afterwards, and after being helped out, but I spent my first paycheck before I got it when I started full time.  It was my first time living on my own, and I started renting a week before I started working.  I put the entire security deposit and a decent restaurant dinner with family on my CC.  But I guess I had a plan to pay it off as soon as I got my first paycheck...  Besides fitbits are stupid, IMO.


Hahahahaha.  Wear them once and then throw them away?  Because, newsflash, they're ALL used clothes now, no matter how you bought them.
+1Million

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 07:01:12 PM »
That won't keep them from asking at first, and then resenting you later for not sharing. Not saying they have any right to resent you, just be prepared for it and cause awkward situations

Yeah, we've been called out for not "helping out" financially. They see how well we're doing, and want a piece of that. Thing is, they're probably making a similar amount of money as we do (admittedly, it'd take both of them working full-time, and for us it takes my wife working part-time). We have two kids to support. But they see all the things they have (two newish cars, going shopping, eat out regularly, etc.) and the things we have (getting to live in a different country, pick if/when/where we work, lots of travel, retirement savings which I wish hadn't been revealed), and they don't get that it's EITHER/OR, not BOTH. Why do we get to do lots of travel and save money for retirement? Because we have a 97 station wagon and a 99 scooter for transport (and I do lots of walking locally), because we don't go out shopping all the time, spend $20/wk on restaurants, etc.

So yeah...they see what they have, and want what you have in addition to that. They'll be asking for money, and resenting when you don't give it to them. Or resent you for your success. Or both. Sucks.

There are some people out there that will be genuinely happy for you, so it's not all bad. But it seems to be less than 50%, in my experience.

impaire

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 08:04:21 PM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Short answer: because if you don't hide your money they'll want it.

Easy solution: you cannot have it.  Save your own!
That won't keep them from asking at first, and then resenting you later for not sharing. Not saying they have any right to resent you, just be prepared for it and cause awkward situations

+1... I'm terrified of ending in this situation with my in-laws. We're already subsidizing them, by letting them live in a house we own at well below market price (the house is paid off, but we're still losing money every month they live there.)

Facepunch me all you want, but I actually stand by the choice to help them with housing. Recently however, we went beyond my comfort zone when we talked about an expensive trip we'd love to take but are not sure we can afford (to visit my SIL abroad). My MIL then talked about moving out of the house we rent to her. She concluded "since the house is paid off, you can sell it and that'd be money right in the bank for you, even if you lose some compared to the original price. That should pay for your trip to go visit my daughter abroad, and leave you with lots of extra cash!"

I'm really worried about what other plans she has for that "extra cash" :p

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 08:16:51 PM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?

Short answer: because if you don't hide your money they'll want it.

Easy solution: you cannot have it.  Save your own!
That won't keep them from asking at first, and then resenting you later for not sharing. Not saying they have any right to resent you, just be prepared for it and cause awkward situations

That is a very similar attitude we get from my MIL and SIL and BIL.

ender

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 08:40:13 PM »
I've a friend from undergrad who went to grad school for.. something with less than stellar job prospects, racking up an ungodly amount of debt (100k+), and is currently unemployed with a job offer - which won't let him pay student loans off. Job prospects are minimal...

Doesn't stop the stream of Facebook posts showing travel, eating out, etc.

It breaks my heart that if/when those loans are paid off I will likely not need to work anymore, if not considerably sooner.

brewer12345

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 08:49:20 PM »
Happily, my parents, DW's mom, and her dad and step mother are all well set for life either via pension or retirement savings.  My brother is a successful entrepreneur who is building a business that is probably worth a couple million should he wish to sell.  My younger sister has a profession that will never pay well but will always allow her to make a living, and her husband is a successful web developer who understands that they need to budget and save.  My older sister is the potential weak link, as she is 44 and has not built wealth, but she is gainfully employed and not drowning in debt.  DW's younger sister is a doctor without the crazy lifestyle endemic to the profession, so once she pays off the mountain of student loans she will be in great shape.  Her older sister is not a great wealth builder, but works in real estate finance/development/management (so understands personal finance) and is very frugal.  I don't see much risk of immediate family members coming with their hands out.  If my sisters do so, they would go to my parents anyway.

I serve as financial advisor to most immediate family members anyway, so hopefully I can nudge them all in the right direction.

Oscar_C

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Friends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2013, 11:43:09 PM »
1st time poster here.

I hate having to think this about my family but it has to be said.

My parents can barely pay their bills on time. When they miss a payment and service isn't cut they say it's a blessing. It got to the point where I had to make them pay the light and phone bills because they kept putting it off for so long.

My sister insists on trading up furniture every year. She also wants a new car when she still hasn't payed off her old one. It got to the point where she wanted me to cosign a loan for her for it. I told her that I can't do that since I need clean credit for a mortgage application.

I love them but when it comes to money, they are incompetent.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 03:35:36 PM »
The problem with keeping this type of person around, in any capacity, is their shit spills over into your life in unexpected and unpleasant ways. (e.g - everyone's out for breakfast and inexplicably, you're the only one whose credit card isn't declined - sticking you with the $100 bill for everyone else)

I always get a separate bill. Only time someone else's will be combined with mine, is if I'm going to pay it too. Then if they had trouble paying, I'd go "I'm a gonna go ahead and take these restless kids to the Walmart, you guys can catch up when you can!" Well, I might make an exception if it was an honest one-off deal (or even if it'd happened before, but they always paid back). But if they're trying to take advantage of me, nope!

Now that I think about it, if this was a recurring issue, I would stop putting myself in that situation.

Joshin

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2013, 08:21:23 PM »

+1 but I don't take kindly to being "poked in the chest" - I poke back. If that gets tiresome, I'd second the recommendation to just block them.

The problem with keeping this type of person around, in any capacity, is their shit spills over into your life in unexpected and unpleasant ways. (e.g - everyone's out for breakfast and inexplicably, you're the only one whose credit card isn't declined - sticking you with the $100 bill for everyone else)

Eh, I'm not too concerned about that. I've never been stuck with someone else's bill in my life. College roommates trained me well at avoiding other people's drama. I only see her occasionally in a semi-professional capacity at volunteer functions anyway, and I only keep her on FB because that is the main method of communication used by some of the other volunteers. One day I won't feel like snarking back and I'll block her from the main feed, but the train wreck is somewhat amusing. Hey, I never said I was without personality flaws!

LalsConstant

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2013, 09:56:34 AM »
I'm watching a trainwreck right now and it's sickening.

Having made mistakes with money and spending myself, one thing I've learned is that confronting other people who are like I used to be is useless.

The rationalization hamster in these people's minds is working overtime, you can't get through to them unless they're already at the point they are ready to change.

It doesn't matter whether it's a stranger or your own brother.

My brother is currently digging himself a hole.  He's got two credit cards he hasn't paid in months, he's constantly late on his insurance payments, his student loans (for a program he quit two months in) would be delinquent except my mother is able to intervene there.

The worst part is, although he has a 2006 car he bought new that's still running just great, he went and bought ANOTHER car which he's financing at 24% APR.  That one really made me scratch my head, I don't have two cars, what would I do with two cars?  Why does he need two cars?  I'm not saying there's no reason not to have two or more cars but for him I fail to see any reason for it.

It's not even that he finished paying on one car and just happened to get the other by happenstance.  It's that he went out and bought another car!  Why!?

The only bright spot is he's about to double his income, so I'm going to press on him he needs to shove 15 percent of his check into a 401k so he never ever sees it, then pay all his bills, and then live on the rest no matter what happens.

I doubt he listens.

The worst part is when he's been confronted about this state of affairs (I've done it and so has my mom) he balks and says he has it under control.  The denial is total, as mine was at one point.

Okay, I messed up, but it wasn't so bad that my family members were aware of my problems despite not even living with me.  My mother only knew I had problems when I told her.  And I was in total denial but not for so long, I cringe to think what his actual situation may be.

The problem is we don't know, he refuses to say anything.  Normally that'd be fine, but his adverse finances are starting to affect others.  When he makes it our business, it becomes our business.  He at least owes my mother full disclosure, I'm only on the fringe of his problems.

What a bummer D:

wepner

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2013, 11:49:07 PM »
I just caught up with one of my best friends from high school. I'd always thought of him as one of my friends who have their shit together (probably 50% of my friends still live with their parents and are around 29 but that's a whole different story) anyway it turns out that dude has 2 mortgages in Northwest Indiana and is currently living in an apartment in Chicago.

First place he bought in late 2006 (yeesh) after a little while of renting in Indiana (he moved there from California) then he "upgraded" to a bigger older house and rented out his old place I guess  that person is still paying rent but its doesn't cover the mortgage apparently. He takes public transportation to his work from his new house so that's something. But dude is making more money than anyone I know and is strongly considering bankruptcy because because he is never going to sell either house. He told me he had the first house listed for half of what he payed for it and not even one person looked at the house.

Nords

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2013, 12:14:14 AM »
None of these people can fathom the idea of not having a day job, which is why DW tells me I will need a cover story when I quit next year.  Everyone else is the financial fuck-up, why do I have to hide or make excuses?
Well, for starters, you might need a new set of friends.

You could always tell everyone that your spouse's career is taking off, so you're quitting your day job to be there for her and the kids.  That should be an automatic subject-changer, but if not you can start telling them about one of the school field trips that you chaperoned...

MustacheMatt

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2013, 07:01:56 PM »
It's sad watching the people you know fail and lose everything.  It's frustrating that they won't even try to help themselves or be open to advice.

If they're taking you for granted, or assuming something of value from you - that's on you to stand up for it no matter how uncomfortable that is.  If you choose not to, then you are accepting their behavior and know that it will gnaw at you destroying the relationship.


randymarsh

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 09:10:41 AM »
Older friends of mine got married a couple years ago and bought a house ASAP. The rumor is that they took out 20K more than what the house is worth! New furniture, house "Stuff", constant eating out, huge newish truck, newish sports car, etc. Still have car loan, wedding debt, and student loan debt but no degree.

On one hand I don't like to judge too much because I have a lot of student loans and even a car loan, but I give myself a little bit of credit for picking an employable major (and I'm actually going to get the degree!), a fuel efficient & reliable car, and I'm not in a huge rush to move out of my parents' like they were. I'm also here, learning and trying to get on track for FI.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 09:13:34 AM by thefinancialstudent »

SJS

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2013, 06:24:46 PM »
Quote
Oh, and I would never let my kids be seen in used clothes!"

Because people would know they are used . . . how?  I buy all my kids clothes used if I can.  When they outgrow them I pass them to my brother's family,  and his kids also get to look swank.  Just when the tots were starting to show signs of getting snooty about this (thanks to my MIL who makes comments like the quote above all the time) that song "Thrift Shop" came out and not only was it cool again, but they wanted to go and "look for a come up" on the tables with me.
[/quote]

This is really interesting.........We are early retirees with a net worth of $5M and a monthly income of $15K and I flippin love to (and regularly do!) shop in thrift stores!  If you are a "thrifter" too - you KNOW the great stuff you can find!  And I always say "I'm not too proud to take it home, throw it in a hot washing machine with a cap full of Tide!"  Who the hell knows where it came from unless you tell them??  And I have to say........I have a fabulous wardrobe!!  (I always say I buy a piece for a few bucks..........while the original owner is still paying the $100 they paid for it off on their credit card!)   

yahui168

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2013, 11:03:21 PM »
This is really interesting.........We are early retirees with a net worth of $5M and a monthly income of $15K and I flippin love to (and regularly do!) shop in thrift stores!  If you are a "thrifter" too - you KNOW the great stuff you can find!  And I always say "I'm not too proud to take it home, throw it in a hot washing machine with a cap full of Tide!"  Who the hell knows where it came from unless you tell them??  And I have to say........I have a fabulous wardrobe!!  (I always say I buy a piece for a few bucks..........while the original owner is still paying the $100 they paid for it off on their credit card!)   

You're my hero. Any thoughts/advice on something like Ross vs Thrift? I'm a guy and I spend about $50 on clothes a year so I mostly want to get in and out. I used to just grab something from clearance section of Gap or some mall store and still hate myself for spending $30 on a pair of shorts. I've never really considered thrift stores until I started read MMM. I was thinking I would ease in with Ross and then go thrift. Thoughts?

jrhampt

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2013, 11:23:47 AM »
If you know exactly what you're looking for, try eBay.  That is my version of a giant online thrift store.

galliver

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2013, 11:26:58 PM »
Friend's husband just posted on Facebook excited about a motorcycle he wants and slightly concerned if the bank will give him, I quote, "ANOTHER loan." Immediately thought of this thread. I suspect the previous loan was for a boat. I'm not a perfect mustachian by any stretch, but going into debt for TOYS seems ridiculous to me...

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2013, 01:37:17 PM »
Just say you are a pilot.

Then you can use double the excuse as to why you are never around as much..(and out having frugal fun )

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2013, 10:25:34 PM »
my sister qualifies as a financial trainwreck.
She is a single parent of two children, 9 and 5.
Last month she asked our brother for 2K to pay her last two months rent so that she wouldnt get evicted. She had received a 3 day pay or eviction notice.
Today she posted on fb how she is looking for a dog and how the shelter was giving her a hard time because she has a small apartment and had the nerve to ask her how she was planning to care for it (standard questions, ime, at shelters) She said she cant afford it right now, but maybe by christmas.

She gets state assistance for food and childcare. She got several thousand dollars from our brother and our dad this year when she decided to move across country without a job in place.

of *course* she cant remotely afford a dog. I bet she gets one before the new year.

my brother helped her make a spreadsheet of her expenses. she's in the hole every  month, and thats without stuff like dr visit co-pays, her cat's expenses, any kind of extra beyond rent, gas, food, utilities.

if she gets the dog, I know my brother wont send her another cent.

I posted a reply on her thread, with a link to typical dog expenses. sigh.

MrsPete

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2013, 10:40:54 AM »

+1 but I don't take kindly to being "poked in the chest" - I poke back.



This works 100% of the time:  adopt a slightly amused but not insulted tone and say, "what makes you think it's okay to say that?"  No reasonable answer exists.  You've called out the speaker for rudeness without being rude yourself.  The light tone shows you're not going to pursue the topic, but you clearly think it's foolish. 

Then change the subject quickly.   

MrsStubble

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2013, 06:08:53 PM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down. 

marz1982

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2013, 04:14:27 AM »
My whole Mom's side of the family is a financial train wreck, including my two half-brothers from a previous marriage with another financial wreck of a man.
At this point, I can only conclude that their childhood spent in poverty, must have left them completely unable to manage money.  They are almost all of them, completely hopeless, and it's extremely saddening. 

The wreck from my brother goes in cycles, basically : Get a decent job, spend money like it's going out of fashion, don't save a cent.  Quit job in a puff of anger/whim/fancy, and blow whatever meagre savings he has in a few months (including his company pension that was paid out to him).  Start getting desperate for money, and pawn stuff off for food money, including selling his bike/car/whatever he bought on credit card.  Mom and Dad occasionally jump to rescue said pawned items, paying more than what he sold it for (Rip-off pawn shop!).
Funny thing is that he's living on so little at the moment - if he had kept the consumption rate so low while working, *and kept his damn job instead of quitting/restarting his career every 5 years*, he'd probably be retired and smiling by now on.  His entertainment is now going to the beach and swimming (free), instead of drinking until all hours of the morning - much healthier.

When I talk to my Mom about it, I'm encouraging her to let them actually feel the consequences of their actions (Quitting jobs, not saving money).  I ask if they would like to read a few great books I've read about budgeting.  I suggest to her that going on a clothing shopping spree to buy gifts for random friends and then complaining the next week about "money being tight" is not very logical behaviour.  Her excuses are mind-blowing.  They all have a very "woe is me, I'll always be living hand to mouth, so let me spend what I can when I get it". 

Gaaaaaaaah

At least my Dad's side is well off - all siblings stable and in good employment.  One lost his job and couldn't find another one, so no problem - he started a small company of just himself doing some basic handy-man work (reliable and good quality work difficult to find in his area).  No problems.  His parents were always well off, so I guess they taught their kids how to manage money?

/rant off.

MsSindy

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2013, 11:47:21 AM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down.

Wait, your friends asked you for financial support for their wedding??  Wow, I'm not really ensure how to interpret that.  Are they that desperate?  or do they just have a big set of balls?  or do they think their friends *should* support them?  I'm just baffled by this.

olivia

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2013, 12:07:54 PM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down.

Wait, your friends asked you for financial support for their wedding??  Wow, I'm not really ensure how to interpret that.  Are they that desperate?  or do they just have a big set of balls?  or do they think their friends *should* support them?  I'm just baffled by this.

Ditto, I don't even understand!  More details please!!!

galliver

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2013, 09:51:53 PM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down.

Wait, your friends asked you for financial support for their wedding??  Wow, I'm not really ensure how to interpret that.  Are they that desperate?  or do they just have a big set of balls?  or do they think their friends *should* support them?  I'm just baffled by this.

Ditto, I don't even understand!  More details please!!!

They probably asked for their wedding gifts up front and in cash. Because you KNOW wedding gifts are supposed to cover the cost of the wedding, right!? (I hope my sarcasm came through there.)

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3845206-have-your-say-about-the-firestorm-over-a-wedding-gift/

MsSindy

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2013, 01:50:46 PM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down.


Wait, your friends asked you for financial support for their wedding??  Wow, I'm not really ensure how to interpret that.  Are they that desperate?  or do they just have a big set of balls?  or do they think their friends *should* support them?  I'm just baffled by this.

Ditto, I don't even understand!  More details please!!!

They probably asked for their wedding gifts up front and in cash. Because you KNOW wedding gifts are supposed to cover the cost of the wedding, right!? (I hope my sarcasm came through there.)

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3845206-have-your-say-about-the-firestorm-over-a-wedding-gift/

Yikes, that story was appaling!   ...and from Stoney Creek, ONT where my hubby's from!

amicableskeptic

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2013, 03:46:51 PM »
It's definitely hard when family has financial problems, rando facebook friends should not be hard to deal with though.  If a facebook "friend" of mine wrote a rude an insulting reply to one of my posts it would be a simple thing to unfriend them.  I know it's tempting to get in shouting matches, but if they aren't really a friend of yours why waste the time? 

The whole family member in trouble thing is much harder.  I have a family member who is in financial trouble and it is tough.  At this point I just offer my advice and leave it at that.  A family member's financial denial can only affect your finances if you let it.  Compassionately offer your advice early, but also be clear that you're not going to be a bank for them, giving out money is only going to enable them to continue living in denial.  I hope that some day my family member will come to me for advice, but till then I'm not going to lower the quality of either of our lives by getting angry about it.

randymarsh

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 01:41:53 PM »
Update to my last post here:

They did it. The couple with no kids traded in a sporty 2 door (still had a huge loan balance) for a....Prius? Volt? xD?

Of course not!

A GMC Terrain. Their other car is a huge truck. So much room for activities.


Self-employed-swami

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 01:51:26 PM »
Uuugh.

We sold our extra car this week (aka my car, a 1995 tercel).  So, DH has his car, and I have my (total boat, but 100% completely necessary) work truck.  I feel like a heel using it for errands :( 

But, since I'm only home 2/weeks a month, the registration was coming due for the car next month,  I sold it at a $175 profit, and insurance now owes me $85, it didn't make sense to keep it, when I have the truck just sitting there anyway (and gas is free for my personal use).

Anyway, I couldn't imagine going the other direction!  I love driving DH's car (a 2006 Yaris hatchback). 

MgoSam

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 01:59:10 PM »
Such is life. I remember freshmen year hearing a senior in class complain about this guy ____ who has his choice of colleges while no school wants him. Then the teacher proceeded to tell him to be quiet as they were in class, he did for a minute and then kept on yapping..... Cause and effect, it is a beautiful concept.

chasesfish

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 04:12:49 PM »
My wife is a veterinarian, she drives the oldest car at work.  The other vet recently ditched his 1996 compact pickup for a ford fusion,

Everyone else makes $15 or less an hour, they all have nicer cars.

MrsStubble

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2014, 09:31:44 PM »
Our good friends are a financial train wreck. We're getting ready to celebrate their $20k wedding that they can't afford to pay for.   They've never wanted to learn what we tried to tell them about saving/budgets and they've always had something to say about our "cheapism" but sure enough, when it came time for them to start paying down deposits on their wedding stuff they came crawling around to us asking for financial support.   

At least they weren't surprised when we politely shot them down.


Wait, your friends asked you for financial support for their wedding??  Wow, I'm not really ensure how to interpret that.  Are they that desperate?  or do they just have a big set of balls?  or do they think their friends *should* support them?  I'm just baffled by this.

Ditto, I don't even understand!  More details please!!!

They probably asked for their wedding gifts up front and in cash. Because you KNOW wedding gifts are supposed to cover the cost of the wedding, right!? (I hope my sarcasm came through there.)

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3845206-have-your-say-about-the-firestorm-over-a-wedding-gift/

Yikes, that story was appaling!   ...and from Stoney Creek, ONT where my hubby's from!

Hi there.  The wedding was 2 months ago and i thought you'd all like an follow-up on how it went. 

 Our friends did end up getting married and the wedding was something like $20,000 total which believe it or not, was mostly funded by other friends and relatives who were too poor to assist, but i guess felt too guilty to not oblige them.  The wedding was nice as weddings go and everyone had a great time, like you do at most weddings and everyone is still friends just as before (no harm, no foul) but was it worth the cost?  No, probably not.

After the initial request was denied, there were other requests that came up from the bride/groom that were sort of less blatant, but still completely ridiculous.  The groom tried to rope my husband into helping to fund and build a huge back patio out of stone so they could have the rehearsal dinner at their farm.  When my husband decline the funding offer but offered to assist with the build part they tried to rope him into other tasks (painting the inside of the  house, fixing the kitchen/bathroom, installing a new dining room floor, etc) that had nothing to do with the wedding but was on their to-do list.  My husband respectfully kept them on task and helped with the patio and whatever tasks he felt he could/should do, but eventually declined to assist further with non-standard groomsmen wedding tasks.

The bride tried a few times to guilt money out of me to pay for upgrades to her wedding flowers, invitations, and pre-wedding preps (spray tan, nails, hair, make-up) which I declined.  None of the bridesmaids had the money for what she wanted but we managed to pull together to make everything lovely and cover the standard costs (shower, bridesmaid's gift, makeup/hair, etc).  The only other absurd request i received was to fund a bachelorette party in Vegas (a few hundred miles aways) for the bride and other bridesmaids because "I had all the money".   Not sure how she came up with that idea but she even got her sister-in-law involved in trying to convince me, but to no avail. 

I guess I'd say our friends have  the biggest set of entitlement balls on them a couple could have, but honestly, they are otherwise lovely people.  They do expect things from their family, their jobs, and I guess society on whole and sort of live a paycheck billionaire's lifestyle. (They have money when they get paid, but not the next day.)  I don't think they hesitated for a second in asking us and i don't think they even batted an eyelash when we said no which makes me think they are both very accustomed to requesting assistance and being denied it. 

It's been a few months since their wedding and i have heard some grumblings about not enough money or gifts but that has given way to their new desire... a new, bigger and better house.  Not sure how they are going to pay for this either, but I know one couple who won't be helping them pay for it.  ;) 

ginastarke

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2014, 02:11:10 AM »
yahui168 : My rules, and sorry to be  off topic in advance.

1.) Can't reasonably buy it used :  most shoes (unless I get an unbelievable stroke of luck) TJ Maxx or Famous Footwear (Ross gets the same things and all are around the same prices, but TJ Maxx is tidier and easier to  find things  TJM also for fancy coffee, tea, spices and soaps (ducks face punch- it's a very rare treat) Gifts that have to be new.

2.)Clothes - Charity thrift shops (Not Goodwill, their prices are out of whack) Even better are  garage sales in upscale neighborhoods. Sigh, is it Memorial day yet?

3.Kitchen gadgets, electronic gizmos -Goodwill, but test first! They still don't know what a prize a Romertopf clay oven is :D

4. Craft/Redesign materials:  Goodwill outlet. Take allergy meds  before you go, bring handwipes, purell and your courage :P

MsSindy

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2014, 11:17:25 AM »
Thanks for the update!  I always wonder how these things actually wind up.

There are def people who have the personality where they think, "hey, you never know unless you ask". Your friends probably have a pretty thick skin and think nothing of it.  I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to asking for favors - just my personality.   It would be exhausting to me to always be scheming on who I could ask for what, in order to get what I want.


MrsStubble

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2014, 07:04:34 AM »
Ditto, i can't imagine asking anyone for help, family included. But then, my husband and I were both raised to be problem solvers and figure things out on our own.  It made it difficult at times (college costs for one) but i think it was worth it.   The challenge made the reward that much better and all my siblings know how to stand on their own two feet.

My friends come from a family that just helps everyone with money (not that they always have any) - it's just what they know.  I'm not saying it's wrong to do, i know they mean the best for family, it just seems it's given them different expectations in life then we have.

pipercat

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2014, 08:27:39 AM »
My nephew is 23, and he is in an apprenticeship program.  This means that his jobs are often 6-8 week assignments in different geographic locations around our city.  All this to say, he absolutely needs a car.

He drives a Toyota Corolla, which is serving him quite well.

Here is the part that has me shaking my head.  My brother (his dad) complains that my nephew is putting too many miles on his car.  He is nagging him to buy a second vehicle, a small truck so that his car will last longer!

When I suggested that the Corolla was still the best option, my brother replied, "Well then I'll just let you go get him when he's broken down on the side of the road".  Sigh. . .

Daleth

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2014, 08:43:27 AM »
My nephew is 23, and he is in an apprenticeship program.  This means that his jobs are often 6-8 week assignments in different geographic locations around our city.  All this to say, he absolutely needs a car.

He drives a Toyota Corolla, which is serving him quite well.

Here is the part that has me shaking my head.  My brother (his dad) complains that my nephew is putting too many miles on his car.  He is nagging him to buy a second vehicle, a small truck so that his car will last longer!

When I suggested that the Corolla was still the best option, my brother replied, "Well then I'll just let you go get him when he's broken down on the side of the road".  Sigh. . .

Have you pointed out to your brother that joining AAA is a lot cheaper than buying a second vehicle?!!?

Mori

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2014, 11:04:27 AM »
Have you pointed out to your brother that joining AAA is a lot cheaper than buying a second vehicle?!!?

I read this as "Have you pointed out to your bother..."

:) Slightly funnier that way.


BlueMR2

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Re: Firends and Family Financial Trainwrecks
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2014, 06:58:00 AM »
Have you pointed out to your brother that joining AAA is a lot cheaper than buying a second vehicle?!!?

Even having to rent a car for a few weeks a year is cheaper than having that spare vehicle around!