Author Topic: Financial Samurai is going back to work  (Read 10014 times)

M5

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Financial Samurai is going back to work
« on: November 30, 2019, 10:12:03 AM »
Here's a Forbes article on the Financial Samurai calling it quits on ER after 7 years. My head hurts after reading this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanderousseau/2019/11/29/41-year-old-retired-headed-back-work-heres-why/

Quote
And, yet, despite earning about $250,000 a year in passive income streams, he estimates he’s about $93,000 a year short of living comfortably in San Francisco, particularly if his family has another child.

OtherJen

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2019, 10:24:03 AM »
Well, that explains the very public whining about needing 300k to survive in SF. Maybe going back to work will keep him busy enough that he'll stop whining about being broke.

ysette9

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2019, 10:55:23 AM »
People like him give the Bay Area a bad reputation. We are a family of five in the same area who spend extravagantly and we don’t spend half of what he supposedly does.

Freedomin5

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2019, 11:07:59 AM »
@ysette9 Well then, according to him you’re living in abject poverty. :D

Quote
“Why would you want to live near abject poverty, just so you can retire early,” he questions.

That’s his response when asked why he couldn’t live within his 250k passive income.

OtherJen

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
@ysette9 Well then, according to him you’re living in abject poverty. :D

Quote
“Why would you want to live near abject poverty, just so you can retire early,” he questions.

That’s his response when asked why he couldn’t live within his 250k passive income.

Oh wow, the cluelessness. He won't be happy on any salary or in any location with that attitude.

Ann

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2019, 11:58:07 AM »
Wow. The idea of going back to work is fine.  If he likes the intellectual stimulation or wants to match a certain high life-style, that’s his life to weigh cost and benefit.

Article quote:
If he does go back to the office, he doesn’t view it as a failure. Instead it’s an evolution, based on what he needs personally and financially, moving forward.
“Life changes,” he said about leaving early retirement behind, but there was “no harm in trying.”


Here’s where I take issue:
Article quote:
And while some in the FIRE community would question why he doesn’t find a cheaper strategy or cut expenses, it’s not his view on early retirement. “Why would you want to live near abject poverty, just so you can retire early,” he questions.

His “abject poverty” is $250,000 in passive income a year.  I know he lives in the HCL San Francisco, but $250,000 is not near poverty level.  That is quite insulting to people living in poverty. 

Edited to add:  Sorry! I was interrupted while posting so I repeated the “poverty” part.  But it bears repeating because it is really the frustrating part of the article. 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 12:03:30 PM by Ann »

SwordGuy

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2019, 02:50:36 PM »
He's a clueless troll.   Good riddance.

M5

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 04:23:42 PM »
He's a clueless troll.   Good riddance.

Agreed. Just sad that so many will see and believe the article with a big name like Forbes publishing it. With that kind of passive income I could take a private jet everywhere.

bacchi

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2019, 05:08:58 PM »
Wait, when was this written?

Quote from: FS
Due to his child’s education, a slumping economy, the cost of living in San Francisco....

A slumping economy?!? There are some storm clouds on the horizon but who would consider it slumping?


Also, we've seen this quote before in his articles:

Quote from: FS
That doesn’t include the potential cost, if he and his wife have another child, including the expense for more daycare

How much daycare does an FI couple need? That's just weird. It always makes me wonder if he never quit his day job in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 05:12:09 PM by bacchi »

norajean

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2019, 06:59:58 PM »
Seems like not many bloggers are successful staying unemployed.

ysette9

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2019, 09:32:47 PM »
The economy may be thinking about slumping elsewhere but here in the San Francisco Bay Area we struggle to find talent to fill open positions.
I have no idea what he is talking about there.

Evgenia

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2019, 11:08:57 PM »
People like him give the Bay Area a bad reputation. We are a family of five in the same area who spend extravagantly and we don’t spend half of what he supposedly does.

Hear, hear. We live t/here too, and achieved FIRE at 38. My husband and I lived comfortably on $32k/year spending between the two of us while working toward FIRE. One of the reasons we stay in a comparably HCOL is because of all the low-cost and free stuff that comes with it.

ysette9

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Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2019, 02:09:24 AM »
People like him give the Bay Area a bad reputation. We are a family of five in the same area who spend extravagantly and we don’t spend half of what he supposedly does.

Hear, hear. We live t/here too, and achieved FIRE at 38. My husband and I lived comfortably on $32k/year spending between the two of us while working toward FIRE. One of the reasons we stay in a comparably HCOL is because of all the low-cost and free stuff that comes with it.
I can’t remember: was that before or after you paid off your mortgage?
Our mortgage is by far our highest singe expense. Without that we wouldn’t be at Mr MMM levels of spending but still well under $100k.
Is he really spending $300k+?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:20:52 PM by ysette9 »

raincoast

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2019, 08:58:42 AM »
People like him give the Bay Area a bad reputation. We are a family of five in the same area who spend extravagantly and we don’t spend half of what he supposedly does.

Hear, hear. We live t/here too, and achieved FIRE at 38. My husband and I lived comfortably on $32k/year spending between the two of us while working toward FIRE. One of the reasons we stay in a comparably HCOL is because of all the low-cost and free stuff that comes with it.

I live in Vancouver (another HCOL area) and, even in my spendiest, pre-MMM year, I spent only $50k CAD (including rent). I don't have kids, so that spending level bought me an extravagantly luxurious lifestyle of frequent restaurant meals and an overseas vacation.

I think a lot of people just refuse to adapt their lives or expectations to the city. Living a suburban North American lifestyle in Vancouver is unaffordable. But if you don't insist on driving a car everywhere and living in a giant McMansion, HCOL areas have a lot of other ways you can enjoy yourself without spending a ton of money - cultural events, parks, excellent libraries, cool neighbourhoods - and all within walking or biking distance. And living a few blocks from many of my friends brings me more happiness than a three-bedroom suburban house.

joleran

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2019, 03:14:51 PM »
Our mortgage is by far our highest singe expense. Without that we would be at Mr MMM levels of spending but still well under $100k.
Is he really spending $300k+?

I believe he is doing full private schooling, plus hiring out almost all parenting and housekeeping responsibilities.

Just Joe

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2019, 03:24:21 PM »
Hmmm, working in HCOL SF or a life of leisure anywhere else in a LCOL/MCOL area.

Seems like an easy choice.

I'd MUCH rather manage my money more efficiently than get up each morning and commute to work in a crowded city.

OtherJen

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2019, 03:28:45 PM »
Our mortgage is by far our highest singe expense. Without that we would be at Mr MMM levels of spending but still well under $100k.
Is he really spending $300k+?

I believe he is doing full private schooling, plus hiring out almost all parenting and housekeeping responsibilities.

Good grief. Does he think he's a member of the mid-century British royal family?

Evgenia

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2019, 03:36:21 PM »
People like him give the Bay Area a bad reputation. We are a family of five in the same area who spend extravagantly and we don’t spend half of what he supposedly does.

Hear, hear. We live t/here too, and achieved FIRE at 38. My husband and I lived comfortably on $32k/year spending between the two of us while working toward FIRE. One of the reasons we stay in a comparably HCOL is because of all the low-cost and free stuff that comes with it.
I can’t remember: was that before or after you paid off your mortgage?
Our mortgage is by far our highest singe expense. Without that we wouldn’t be at Mr MMM levels of spending but still well under $100k.
Is he really spending $300k+?
That was after, but includes property tax, etc. Our total annual spending averaged $50k prior to mortgage pay-off, but some years was closer to $40k (~$24k/year for mortgage and property tax + remainder for everything else). We bought our very small house at almost the bottom of the market; couldn't get that sort of mortgage here now, I realize. Also helped that we didn't have to own a car when gunning for FIRE.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:38:03 PM by Evgenia »

ysette9

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2019, 03:51:38 PM »
Congrats on your good market timing

JAYSLOL

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2019, 05:23:41 PM »
I’ve heard of FU Money, but it sounds like this guy has F Myself Spending

ysette9

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2019, 05:38:29 PM »
I’ve heard of FU Money, but it sounds like this guy has F Myself Spending
Haha

MoneyQuirk

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2019, 02:26:51 PM »
I can't imagine an online presence more opposite to MMM.

MMM prides himself on virtually no ads and absolutely refusing to adulterate any content based on ads.

MMM looks to live on a small amount and is regularly shocked by wastefulness of others.

Neither of these seem to hold true with FS

therethere

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2019, 02:32:57 PM »
I knew I shouldn't, but I clicked on it. I stopped reading when it said something along the lines of..... He will then have to get a salaried office job or increase the passive income from his blog to make up the difference between income and spending.

To me it's obvious. They just flat out told you. All these interviews and articles are a calculated story line to increase passive income to his blog. So he can remain FIRE'd and still get more disposable income to fund his excessive lifestyle.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2020, 10:50:31 PM »
I’ve heard of FU Money, but it sounds like this guy has F Myself Spending
Haha

Nice

SwordGuy

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2020, 09:24:00 AM »
Admins, could we have forum adjustment that automatically changes any hyperlink to a Sam Dogen or Financial Samurai article to plain text, so we don't contribute to his click-bait income stream?

And maybe even add an automatic message that says, "The consensus of the MMM community is that this guy is a doofus who now writes click-bait and should be ignored."

Bonus points for locking the thread... :)

I suppose it's just too much to hope for.

talltexan

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2020, 08:13:17 AM »
I actually think his blog has good information, particularly about real estate and the yield curve associated with investing in bonds.

That doesn't mean taking an announcement like this at 100% value, however.

BobTheBuilder

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 12:26:23 PM »
One word: ridiculous

ColoAndy

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2020, 01:10:14 PM »
Why all the talk in the column about how expensive daycare is?  They are both retired.  Daycare not needed.

ixtap

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2020, 01:20:02 PM »
Why all the talk in the column about how expensive daycare is?  They are both retired.  Daycare not needed.

It is if you are trying to keep up with the Joneses. Dontchya know that not sending your kid to daycare = setting them up for failure?!

talltexan

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2020, 01:28:06 PM »
Reading the announcement makes me think this has to do with:

  • Projected cost of college
  • Attempting to establish a mortgage to qualify for a super-low rate on a new mortgage
  • Cost of private school

Tinker

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2020, 11:22:38 AM »
Quote
“Why would you want to live near abject poverty, just so you can retire early,”
Being unable to have your bathroom tiled with latest generation iphones every year is a novel definition of abject poverty

erutio

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2020, 11:31:18 AM »
Wow, he sucks.

Dicey

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2020, 10:08:47 AM »
Hahaha, hope he got a job before the market dumped. Poor guy, he must be wallowing in despair and on the brink of financial ruin by now...

And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?

dandarc

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2020, 10:17:30 AM »
Hahaha, hope he got a job before the market dumped. Poor guy, he must be wallowing in despair and on the brink of financial ruin by now...

And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?
Why would Financial Samurai give a shit about the market dropping? They only spend dividends, so the price of a share you already own literally means nothing in the short term. One of the reasons for his despair - need a shitload more invested if you're going with a 2% withdrawal rate.

Clinging to a "principal and interest" view of investing has a large cost.

Dicey

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2020, 10:31:42 AM »
Hahaha, hope he got a job before the market dumped. Poor guy, he must be wallowing in despair and on the brink of financial ruin by now...

And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?
Why would Financial Samurai give a shit about the market dropping? They only spend dividends, so the price of a share you already own literally means nothing in the short term. One of the reasons for his despair - need a shitload more invested if you're going with a 2% withdrawal rate.

Clinging to a "principal and interest" view of investing has a large cost.
I don't follow him, so I didn't know that. I'm also not a dividend investor, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but don't dividends track stock prices? Stocks go down = dividends go down too?

Funny, this is why YMOYL never resonated with me. Joe D.'s investment style wouldn't have kept him going for the long haul. Tragically, he died young and thus never found this out.

dandarc

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2020, 11:09:06 AM »
No - each company declares dividends as a dollar amount whenever the board feels like it basically. Which makes a lot of sense - that money comes out of the company's checking account. Companies that pay significant dividends usually feel pressure to maintain those dividends. Sometimes to the point of doing stupid things like borrowing money so they can pay the dividend out.

Overall, operating results matter the most in determining whether to pay dividends or their amounts, although the board of directors votes on these things, so other factors can come into play. Earnings, you'll find, are usually not nearly as volatile as stock prices.

So when stock prices go down, the dividend yield percentage can go up significantly - numerator stays the same, denominator goes down. One of the things that kept the great depression from being quite so great if you held on was the super-high dividend yield after the crash.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2020, 02:39:12 PM »
And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?

In my experience, at some point kids who are no longer infants need to be around other kids, and sometimes that means paying for daycare/preschool. 

Sure, in some communities you can find enough kids among other SAHPs, but where I live, plenty of SAHMs paid for childcare to give their kids some "other-kid" time, especially if they had only one child.

The "work" of childhood is play, and sometimes that needs to happen around other kids.

I'd say when a kid is somewhere between 9 months and 2 years old, even if I had FIRE'd by then, I would have looked for at least part-time daycare/preschool.

School doesn't start "officially" in the US until kindergarten, which is usually around age 5.  And most kindergarten teachers I've known prefer to get kids who have not stayed home exclusively but have at least some familiarity with "school" by then.

So there's time when you might want to pay for childcare before 5, even if both parents don't work for a living.

Dicey

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2020, 02:56:41 PM »
And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?

In my experience, at some point kids who are no longer infants need to be around other kids, and sometimes that means paying for daycare/preschool. 

Sure, in some communities you can find enough kids among other SAHPs, but where I live, plenty of SAHMs paid for childcare to give their kids some "other-kid" time, especially if they had only one child.

The "work" of childhood is play, and sometimes that needs to happen around other kids.

I'd say when a kid is somewhere between 9 months and 2 years old, even if I had FIRE'd by then, I would have looked for at least part-time daycare/preschool.

School doesn't start "officially" in the US until kindergarten, which is usually around age 5.  And most kindergarten teachers I've known prefer to get kids who have not stayed home exclusively but have at least some familiarity with "school" by then.

So there's time when you might want to pay for childcare before 5, even if both parents don't work for a living.
You're preaching to the choir, but kids still want to be with their family more than they want to be in daycare from 8-5. I think part time might be the best of both worlds. The prices he's throwing around are for FT preschool, which it what I was taking issue with.

Telecaster

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2020, 03:40:48 PM »
I don't follow him, so I didn't know that. I'm also not a dividend investor, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but don't dividends track stock prices? Stocks go down = dividends go down too?

Funny, this is why YMOYL never resonated with me. Joe D.'s investment style wouldn't have kept him going for the long haul. Tragically, he died young and thus never found this out.

I believe Vikki wound up going with index funds.

Here's the problem with dividend strategies:  By the time you create a broadly diversified portfolio of dividend performers--and they usually recommend stocks that have steadily increased dividends over long periods of time--the dividend yield isn't that much better than the broader market itself.  2% or something.  So, if you want to go all in on dividends you need twice as much money to retire.

You can get much higher yields of course, but then the underlying companies can be real dogs.  Dividend strategies got real popular a few years ago when the market seemed to be in the doldrums, but you don't hear about them as much these days. 

And Financial Samuria needs to commit seppuku.  I'm so sick of that guy. 

Kierun

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2020, 03:58:41 PM »
I sincerely hope he does not move to Hawaii.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2020, 01:38:46 PM »
And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?

In my experience, at some point kids who are no longer infants need to be around other kids, and sometimes that means paying for daycare/preschool. 

Sure, in some communities you can find enough kids among other SAHPs, but where I live, plenty of SAHMs paid for childcare to give their kids some "other-kid" time, especially if they had only one child.

The "work" of childhood is play, and sometimes that needs to happen around other kids.

I'd say when a kid is somewhere between 9 months and 2 years old, even if I had FIRE'd by then, I would have looked for at least part-time daycare/preschool.

School doesn't start "officially" in the US until kindergarten, which is usually around age 5.  And most kindergarten teachers I've known prefer to get kids who have not stayed home exclusively but have at least some familiarity with "school" by then.

So there's time when you might want to pay for childcare before 5, even if both parents don't work for a living.
You're preaching to the choir, but kids still want to be with their family more than they want to be in daycare from 8-5. I think part time might be the best of both worlds. The prices he's throwing around are for FT preschool, which it what I was taking issue with.

Fair point, but there are plenty of preschools that do not offer part-time costs, even if your kid is only there part-time.  Don't know the facts here, of course. 

I do bristle a bit when I hear people say things like "[if] you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all?"  I got a sort of reaction of "Way harsh, Tai!" (reference to the movie Clueless there, btw).

I didn't even read the article, btw, and I have no opinion on this guy, as I don't believe I've ever heard of him before.  Sounds like lots of others here think he's . . . not the greatest.  So that can color people's reactions, too.

spartana

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2020, 05:00:19 PM »
And +1 to the wise daycare comments. If you're FIRE, the parent of small children and you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all? What? You're retired but you make your children go to "work" all day? WTF?

In my experience, at some point kids who are no longer infants need to be around other kids, and sometimes that means paying for daycare/preschool. 

Sure, in some communities you can find enough kids among other SAHPs, but where I live, plenty of SAHMs paid for childcare to give their kids some "other-kid" time, especially if they had only one child.

The "work" of childhood is play, and sometimes that needs to happen around other kids.

I'd say when a kid is somewhere between 9 months and 2 years old, even if I had FIRE'd by then, I would have looked for at least part-time daycare/preschool.

School doesn't start "officially" in the US until kindergarten, which is usually around age 5.  And most kindergarten teachers I've known prefer to get kids who have not stayed home exclusively but have at least some familiarity with "school" by then.

So there's time when you might want to pay for childcare before 5, even if both parents don't work for a living.
You're preaching to the choir, but kids still want to be with their family more than they want to be in daycare from 8-5. I think part time might be the best of both worlds. The prices he's throwing around are for FT preschool, which it what I was taking issue with.

Fair point, but there are plenty of preschools that do not offer part-time costs, even if your kid is only there part-time.  Don't know the facts here, of course. 

I do bristle a bit when I hear people say things like "[if] you're packing them off to someone else all day, why have them at all?"  I got a sort of reaction of "Way harsh, Tai!" (reference to the movie Clueless there, btw).

I didn't even read the article, btw, and I have no opinion on this guy, as I don't believe I've ever heard of him before.  Sounds like lots of others here think he's . . . not the greatest.  So that can color people's reactions, too.
He is the guy who says it is not possible to live on $200k per year (what he tried to live on when he FIREd) because...er...stuff and things and more stuff being too expensive. One of those being daycare. He's almost Suze Ormand's doppelganger minus the private island.

As posted above: Quote
And, yet, despite earning about $250,000 a year in passive income streams, he estimates he’s about $93,000 a year short of living comfortably in San Francisco, particularly if his family has another child.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 05:03:26 PM by spartana »

Chris Pascale

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2020, 08:24:13 PM »


As posted above: Quote
And, yet, despite earning about $250,000 a year in passive income streams, he estimates he’s about $93,000 a year short of living comfortably in San Francisco, particularly if his family has another child.

I personally cannot live on $250k a year, which I've proven by never making that much.

Dicey

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Re: Financial Samurai is going back to work
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2020, 10:11:31 PM »


As posted above: Quote
And, yet, despite earning about $250,000 a year in passive income streams, he estimates he’s about $93,000 a year short of living comfortably in San Francisco, particularly if his family has another child.

I personally cannot live on $250k a year, which I've proven by never making that much.
Hahahahah! Me, too!