Author Topic: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?  (Read 16081 times)

LilyFleur

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2019, 07:59:30 PM »
My MIL applies the glue on fake eyelashes every morning. She is blond (now grey) and her eyelashes are practically invisible. I find it bizarre......  Like, first of all, you are blond so of course your eyelashes are too. And second, how about just some mascara?

My grandmother got her eyeliner tattooed on. It seems a bit ridiculous but my entire early childhood she spent forever painstakingly applying eyeliner every morning. That tattoo saved her so much time. And at least it was a one time expense that stayed looking good!
I gyrate between "I am blonde and pale and why should I have to wear makeup; I am what I am" and "I really do look better with some makeup on." I think the time spent applying makeup is one of the single most boring activities ever invented. And makeup makes me feel slightly claustrophobic.
I did, however, have electrolysis done and never have to spend time shaving my legs or my underarms. I think that was a good investment.
I think lash extensions make women look like cows. I would never.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2019, 08:39:15 AM »
No. They donít. Maybe my friends are all nicer than that. A compliment is saying something nice, not saying the way you used to do something was not as good. The only people I have had say stuff like that are people who seem to be trying to subtly cut down my confidence pr who seem to think they are supposed to have a say in my fashion choices. Male or female, not cool.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!  The issue seems to be tied to the word "than."  That said, I think you may be missing a key part of the sentiment that comes with the "prettier without makeup"-type comment.  Specifically, I believe the intended thought is "You are beautiful the way you are, and you don't *need* makeup/eyelash extensions/heels/<insert consumeristic product> to look beautiful."  The phrasing and word choice may be awkward, abrasive, triggering, or offensive, but I think it's a mistake to interpret it any other way than the way it's intended.

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2019, 10:24:45 AM »
No. They donít. Maybe my friends are all nicer than that. A compliment is saying something nice, not saying the way you used to do something was not as good. The only people I have had say stuff like that are people who seem to be trying to subtly cut down my confidence pr who seem to think they are supposed to have a say in my fashion choices. Male or female, not cool.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!  The issue seems to be tied to the word "than."  That said, I think you may be missing a key part of the sentiment that comes with the "prettier without makeup"-type comment.  Specifically, I believe the intended thought is "You are beautiful the way you are, and you don't *need* makeup/eyelash extensions/heels/<insert consumeristic product> to look beautiful."  The phrasing and word choice may be awkward, abrasive, triggering, or offensive, but I think it's a mistake to interpret it any other way than the way it's intended.

Yes. I get that people intend it as a compliment.

Then again, I would think that someone who intends to compliment someone else would want to know whether that compliment might actually backfire.

For example, "You are so intelligent. You're a credit to your people," is surely intended as a compliment. But a person of color might not take it that way.

And "You are prettier without makeup," I'm sure, is intended to tell someone they are beautiful. But there are definitely better ways to say something like that. Especially if a person has not specifically asked you, "Do you think I look prettier with or without makeup?"

Add in gender dynamics, and the fact that women are constantly being evaluated for their appearance when they are not specifically inviting such an evaluation, and frankly, I think it is a mistake for a person who intends to compliment to not think seriously about whether it might be interpreted differently than intended.



spartana

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2019, 10:36:26 AM »
No. They don’t. Maybe my friends are all nicer than that. A compliment is saying something nice, not saying the way you used to do something was not as good. The only people I have had say stuff like that are people who seem to be trying to subtly cut down my confidence pr who seem to think they are supposed to have a say in my fashion choices. Male or female, not cool.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!  The issue seems to be tied to the word "than."  That said, I think you may be missing a key part of the sentiment that comes with the "prettier without makeup"-type comment.  Specifically, I believe the intended thought is "You are beautiful the way you are, and you don't *need* makeup/eyelash extensions/heels/<insert consumeristic product> to look beautiful."  The phrasing and word choice may be awkward, abrasive, triggering, or offensive, but I think it's a mistake to interpret it any other way than the way it's intended.

Yes. I get that people intend it as a compliment.

Then again, I would think that someone who intends to compliment someone else would want to know whether that compliment might actually backfire.

For example, "You are so intelligent. You're a credit to your people," is surely intended as a compliment. But a person of color might not take it that way.

And "You are prettier without makeup," I'm sure, is intended to tell someone they are beautiful. But there are definitely better ways to say something like that. Especially if a person has not specifically asked you, "Do you think I look prettier with or without makeup?"

Add in gender dynamics, and the fact that women are constantly being evaluated for their appearance when they are not specifically inviting such an evaluation, and frankly, I think it is a mistake for a person who intends to compliment to not think seriously about whether it might be interpreted differently than intended.
But is it even meant as a compliment or just a comment that reflects your personal preferences? Did you ever tell your DH you liked him in the green shirt instead of the blue? Or his hair short instead of long? Or beardless instead of fuzzy-faced? Or just a comment that you liked the way he cooked pancakes on Monday better then on Friday? To me these are everyday random comments that just show an individuals preference. I assume people are grown ass adults and will do what they want even if I may prefer something they did over their own choice. I'm sure there have been people that think I look better in make up or my hair different or my pancakes different. I don't really care what they think as its their problem/issue not mine and doesn't effect me or what I do at all. So I don't take their expressed comments as put downs or compliments - just their personal preferences.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 10:38:13 AM by spartana »

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2019, 10:39:53 AM »
No. They donít. Maybe my friends are all nicer than that. A compliment is saying something nice, not saying the way you used to do something was not as good. The only people I have had say stuff like that are people who seem to be trying to subtly cut down my confidence pr who seem to think they are supposed to have a say in my fashion choices. Male or female, not cool.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!  The issue seems to be tied to the word "than."  That said, I think you may be missing a key part of the sentiment that comes with the "prettier without makeup"-type comment.  Specifically, I believe the intended thought is "You are beautiful the way you are, and you don't *need* makeup/eyelash extensions/heels/<insert consumeristic product> to look beautiful."  The phrasing and word choice may be awkward, abrasive, triggering, or offensive, but I think it's a mistake to interpret it any other way than the way it's intended.

Yes. I get that people intend it as a compliment.

Then again, I would think that someone who intends to compliment someone else would want to know whether that compliment might actually backfire.

For example, "You are so intelligent. You're a credit to your people," is surely intended as a compliment. But a person of color might not take it that way.

And "You are prettier without makeup," I'm sure, is intended to tell someone they are beautiful. But there are definitely better ways to say something like that. Especially if a person has not specifically asked you, "Do you think I look prettier with or without makeup?"

Add in gender dynamics, and the fact that women are constantly being evaluated for their appearance when they are not specifically inviting such an evaluation, and frankly, I think it is a mistake for a person who intends to compliment to not think seriously about whether it might be interpreted differently than intended.
But is it even meant as a compliment or just a comment that reflects your personal preferences? Did you ever tell your DH you liked him in the green shirt instead of the blue? Or his hair short instead of long? Or beardless instead of fuzzy-faced? Or just a comment that you liked the way he cooked pancakes on Monday better then on Friday? To me these are everyday random comments that just show an individuals preference. I assume people are grown ass adults and will do what they want even if I may prefer something they did over their own choice. I'm sure there have been people that think I look better in make up or my hair different or my pancakes different. I don't really care what they think as its their problem/issue not mine and doesn't effect me or what I do at all. So I don't take their expressed comments as put downs or compliments - just their personal preferences.

My husband or my best friend is a bit different from a total stranger, or an acquaintance, or a work colleague.

And actually, no. I don't tend to do that unless they ask me. Because honestly, I kind of don't think they need to care about my preferences. They get to dress and groom themselves how they want.

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2019, 01:15:20 PM »
I think I do take it as a personal preference.  And the notion that it is appropriate for someone not close to me to offer an unsolicited comment on how he or she prefers me is pretty icky.  We wouldn't generally ask people to be flatter by it  (or to take it politely and graciously) if it was about most things other than beauty.  "I preferred you talking less than you did last week."  "I think you are much more pleasant when you don't talk about that subject."  "You are so much more attractive now that you've lost weight!" "Women are so much more attractive when they don't talk about politics!" "You look so much better now that you had that tattoo removed!" 

But when it comes to fashion and makeup, suddenly these things are not only fair game, but we are supposed to feel complimented and flattered. 

And it definitely depends on who it is coming from.  If my DH says that he thinks I look hot whenI wear dresses, that's very different than if a stranger or a colleague says it. 

Malkynn

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2019, 05:45:42 PM »
As a medical professional who has spent years getting comments CONSTANTLY from male patients about how they preferred my long blond hair before I cut it all off and dyed it dark, or how after losing 70lbs that I was getting too thin and that I looked better with more curvy...yeah, it's pretty exhausting and infuriating.

I TOTALLY get why a lot of women would cringe at being told that they look better without makeup.

I don't mind if someone close to me says "never wear that eyeshadow again, you look like you have two black eyes", but that's because they're in a social position with me where their opinion is solicited by default.

A patient???
Well, they can fuck right the fuck off with their goddamn preferences. I don't care, I will never care, and I don't want to hear it, even if it's meant as a compliment.

UnleashHell

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2019, 05:48:12 AM »
@Malkynn

Looking at your picture I'd say your ears seem a bit big.. 😁

Just Joe

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2019, 12:06:52 PM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2019, 02:51:44 PM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men? 

pudding

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2019, 03:23:44 PM »
Aren't we all kind of in this together though, as a species that's biologically programed to reproduce. 

It's like if one gender does something to become more attractive and therefore more sexually attractive, it's as though there's a common element to it to be congratulated, as in your helping to further the species.

And that seems to be where some of these 'approval' comments might be rooted in appreciation of what we are all in together.

Like, I'm into partner dancing... if I take some dancing lessons and learn to dance better, my dance partner who I often have never met up until we dance often appreciates that I know how to dance as she can now enjoy the dance more.

If the dance partner says I'm a good dancer and she liked that I know how to move my body in a way that helps her express through her dance.. should I be angry?  Upset? 

What seems to happen is people are selectively angry, angry at people they don't find attractive and OK if they find the person attractive. And men are appreciative of what is none of their business?

Also I find in N. America culture that many women in this time through culture will have learned only a couple of ways to interpret such comments, and often if feminism is something that they identify with strongly, the'll go on the attack and shame the person that said it. This seems to me to dumb down the culture here.

Often I hear women in Vancouver say the men here are timid.... I'm like wtf!  I remember when I moved here and within a short time it became obvious how hostile culture here was towards men.

I joke to myself sometimes that given enough time white Canadian women would turn the tango into a dance where people don't even touch each other. There'd be a mandatory 3 inches of space.

Often I can see how the white Canadian guys are a bit odd too.  It's like such a novelty to dance close that they start to behave like horny dogs at times.....  welcome to Canada :)

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2019, 07:46:40 PM »
Aren't we all kind of in this together though, as a species that's biologically programed to reproduce. 

It's like if one gender does something to become more attractive and therefore more sexually attractive, it's as though there's a common element to it to be congratulated, as in your helping to further the species.

And that seems to be where some of these 'approval' comments might be rooted in appreciation of what we are all in together.

Like, I'm into partner dancing... if I take some dancing lessons and learn to dance better, my dance partner who I often have never met up until we dance often appreciates that I know how to dance as she can now enjoy the dance more.

If the dance partner says I'm a good dancer and she liked that I know how to move my body in a way that helps her express through her dance.. should I be angry?  Upset? 

What seems to happen is people are selectively angry, angry at people they don't find attractive and OK if they find the person attractive. And men are appreciative of what is none of their business?

Also I find in N. America culture that many women in this time through culture will have learned only a couple of ways to interpret such comments, and often if feminism is something that they identify with strongly, the'll go on the attack and shame the person that said it. This seems to me to dumb down the culture here.

Often I hear women in Vancouver say the men here are timid.... I'm like wtf!  I remember when I moved here and within a short time it became obvious how hostile culture here was towards men.

I joke to myself sometimes that given enough time white Canadian women would turn the tango into a dance where people don't even touch each other. There'd be a mandatory 3 inches of space.

Often I can see how the white Canadian guys are a bit odd too.  It's like such a novelty to dance close that they start to behave like horny dogs at times.....  welcome to Canada :)

Again, "You are pretty!" (or "you are a good dancer") is different than "You look better when you do X."  Or "You don't have to do X to be attractive to men.  I prefer women who do Y!"  No one, as far as I can tell, has said you shouldn't compliment women, even on their looks.  It's when you tell her that men find her attractive even without eyelash extensions, or similar, that's the problem.  Just leave it at the actual compliment, rather than making broad statements about what is and isn't attractive and whether she should care what men find attractive.

If a woman is pretty, most people think it's fine to tell her so.  Just don't make comparisons, even supposedly flattering ones, to when she was less pretty (in your opinion), and don't assume that her choices about how she looks are made because she wants to optimize her attractiveness to men.  That's all.  Making this about supposedly not being allowed to compliment a women is a complete strawman. 

pudding

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2019, 11:00:35 PM »
Aren't we all kind of in this together though, as a species that's biologically programed to reproduce. 

It's like if one gender does something to become more attractive and therefore more sexually attractive, it's as though there's a common element to it to be congratulated, as in your helping to further the species.

And that seems to be where some of these 'approval' comments might be rooted in appreciation of what we are all in together.

Like, I'm into partner dancing... if I take some dancing lessons and learn to dance better, my dance partner who I often have never met up until we dance often appreciates that I know how to dance as she can now enjoy the dance more.

If the dance partner says I'm a good dancer and she liked that I know how to move my body in a way that helps her express through her dance.. should I be angry?  Upset? 

What seems to happen is people are selectively angry, angry at people they don't find attractive and OK if they find the person attractive. And men are appreciative of what is none of their business?

Also I find in N. America culture that many women in this time through culture will have learned only a couple of ways to interpret such comments, and often if feminism is something that they identify with strongly, the'll go on the attack and shame the person that said it. This seems to me to dumb down the culture here.

Often I hear women in Vancouver say the men here are timid.... I'm like wtf!  I remember when I moved here and within a short time it became obvious how hostile culture here was towards men.

I joke to myself sometimes that given enough time white Canadian women would turn the tango into a dance where people don't even touch each other. There'd be a mandatory 3 inches of space.

Often I can see how the white Canadian guys are a bit odd too.  It's like such a novelty to dance close that they start to behave like horny dogs at times.....  welcome to Canada :)

Again, "You are pretty!" (or "you are a good dancer") is different than "You look better when you do X."  Or "You don't have to do X to be attractive to men.  I prefer women who do Y!"  No one, as far as I can tell, has said you shouldn't compliment women, even on their looks.  It's when you tell her that men find her attractive even without eyelash extensions, or similar, that's the problem.  Just leave it at the actual compliment, rather than making broad statements about what is and isn't attractive and whether she should care what men find attractive.

If a woman is pretty, most people think it's fine to tell her so.  Just don't make comparisons, even supposedly flattering ones, to when she was less pretty (in your opinion), and don't assume that her choices about how she looks are made because she wants to optimize her attractiveness to men.  That's all.  Making this about supposedly not being allowed to compliment a women is a complete strawman.


Straw PERSON!  It's 2019        hehe

Just Joe

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2019, 09:49:43 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

partgypsy

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2019, 11:29:29 AM »
I think it is great to do things that are good bang for your buck. For me that was when I was visiting my family my sister picking out a $7 box of hair color and her coloring and cutting my hair. Often when she cuts my hair I get a lot of compliments, more often my general appearance (that I looked good, did I go to the beach, etc??). I think it's because what she does is subtle but knows how to cut my hair so it's flattering to my face.

Keeping fit (I am NOT right now but want to return to) is a good bang for buck because you better fit your clothes, posture, stress relief, circulation etc.

I can even imagine for some- because it is a one time thing- getting electrolysis, eyeliner tattoo, even some forms of plastic surgery, because it is more of a one-time expense that pro-rates itself. Not for me, but individuals vary.

What I don't get is spending money on makeup or treatments that are temporary that have to be paid for over and over again. It would have to be extremely cheap (like my queen helen mint julep face mask) or something like a good spf face sunscreen to feel spending on those things are worth it.

ETA- I also agree, that women's looks are so judged by their appearance, it ALSO rubs me the wrong way when men give the compliment that you look good without makeup. Yes I've never worn makeup and am not going to start now (other than blemish concealer and tinted lip balm).  But where were were you doing all the decades of heavy peer and media pressure to have the perfect hair, skin, makeup, grooming etc all the time? Now it just feels a slightly different perhaps higher bar of yeah, you STILL have to look great, but you are not supposed to look like you are trying hard or using artificial enhancement or if you do, so subtly other people don't realize you are.   

pudding

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2019, 09:29:17 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE


I think I get it. 

It's when the compliment becomes more 'approval from a superior' (superior in their mind at least)  Like it could be followed by a gentle pat on the bum or something if it was 40 years ago.

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2019, 09:40:03 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

It's likely to be misinterpreted by women as you making a pass, as well.

partgypsy

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2019, 09:44:33 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

It's likely to be misinterpreted by women as you making a pass, as well.

I see what you did there lol

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2019, 10:04:03 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

So if you don't do it to men, why do you do it to women?

I'm actually not against a man giving a woman a compliment on her appearance.  But it seems like you refrain from doing this to men, but then you do it to women and are perplexed when it isn't well received.  So women don't receive your compliments well and you seem confused and you complain about it, but with men you just accept that they wouldn't receive it well and stop doing it, presumably without angst or complaint.  Put another way, men won't accept your compliments and that seems fine, but when women don't like it, it's frustrating to you.  Why is that?  /food for thought


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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2019, 10:21:17 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

So if you don't do it to men, why do you do it to women?

I'm actually not against a man giving a woman a compliment on her appearance.  But it seems like you refrain from doing this to men, but then you do it to women and are perplexed when it isn't well received.  So women don't receive your compliments well and you seem confused and you complain about it, but with men you just accept that they wouldn't receive it well and stop doing it, presumably without angst or complaint.  Put another way, men won't accept your compliments and that seems fine, but when women don't like it, it's frustrating to you.  Why is that?  /food for thought

That is a seriously heavy thought. I'd never looked at human dynamics that way.

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2019, 10:42:01 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)

Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

So if you don't do it to men, why do you do it to women?

I'm actually not against a man giving a woman a compliment on her appearance.  But it seems like you refrain from doing this to men, but then you do it to women and are perplexed when it isn't well received.  So women don't receive your compliments well and you seem confused and you complain about it, but with men you just accept that they wouldn't receive it well and stop doing it, presumably without angst or complaint.  Put another way, men won't accept your compliments and that seems fine, but when women don't like it, it's frustrating to you.  Why is that?  /food for thought

That is a seriously heavy thought. I'd never looked at human dynamics that way.

This is the crux of what a lot of women have been trying to get men to understand, for a long time.

Thanks, Villanelle, for articulating it in a way that hopefully might make sense in a way that other explanations have not.

Just Joe

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2019, 11:16:55 AM »
So if you don't do it to men, why do you do it to women?

I'm actually not against a man giving a woman a compliment on her appearance.  But it seems like you refrain from doing this to men, but then you do it to women and are perplexed when it isn't well received.  So women don't receive your compliments well and you seem confused and you complain about it, but with men you just accept that they wouldn't receive it well and stop doing it, presumably without angst or complaint.  Put another way, men won't accept your compliments and that seems fine, but when women don't like it, it's frustrating to you.  Why is that?  /food for thought

Oh its simpler than that. I don't compliment anyone's appearance but my lovely wife. Compliments can be like little hand grenades. Some guys can say "you're HAWT" with a huge grin and get away with it. Others can't.

Keeping it friendly and professional all the time.

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2019, 11:32:44 AM »
I often refrain from any compliment b/c I'm just one of those guys that can have the best of intentions and manage to say the worst and not even realize it.

Thumbs up! And somehow I insulted her... ;)
Do you have the same experience with men?

I don't compliment men on their appearance. I'm surrounded by Trumpers. Guaranteed to be misinterpreted as making a pass. HEHE

So if you don't do it to men, why do you do it to women?

I'm actually not against a man giving a woman a compliment on her appearance.  But it seems like you refrain from doing this to men, but then you do it to women and are perplexed when it isn't well received.  So women don't receive your compliments well and you seem confused and you complain about it, but with men you just accept that they wouldn't receive it well and stop doing it, presumably without angst or complaint.  Put another way, men won't accept your compliments and that seems fine, but when women don't like it, it's frustrating to you.  Why is that?  /food for thought

That is a seriously heavy thought. I'd never looked at human dynamics that way.


My take on it is that we (to include women) are programmed by society to believe that women crave the approval of men, and that we are far more vain, so commenting on our appearance is more likely to feel like giving a great compliment.  If that's what we care about, it's thoughtful to provide validation, right?  Also, I think society tells us that men are kind of entitled to women's attentions and gratitudes, so when women don't receive those well, they seem snotty or stuck up, in ways most people wouldn't associate with men behaving the same way.  A woman should be grateful for the attention; a man has no (or little) such obligation. 

We don't expect a man to be excessively flattered if he's given a compliment about his appearance, and thus when he's not, we don't feel he's broken a societal expectation.  He's not stuck up or aloof; he's behaving as expected.  And we don't expect men to be grateful recipients of *any* attentions, so again we don't label them negatively when they don't, or feel like they've broken the social contract.

partgypsy

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2019, 12:11:34 PM »
I've never really thought about it to that level. thanks for articulating.
Alternate view.
I was shy/modest when young, did not like attracting attention and so avoided it even by the way I dressed. I wore everything 1-2 sizes too large. Fast forward 25 years, I'm older, divorced. I'm actually wearing pants and clothes in my size! I actually appreciate getting compliments now (EITHER sex). I don't assume its someone wanting to hit on me but a social nicety. From what I hear, it's going to be a few short years before I am completely invisible to men anyways. In addition to putting compliments in more of a perspective, I feel I am just a lot more relaxed about sex and the body in general. I've have a couple babies, multiple people have seen everything, it's just not as a big deal to me. I've kind of gone full circle and wish I was a less uptight a little sooner, but oh well. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 12:29:19 PM by partgypsy »

Hula Hoop

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2019, 12:32:03 PM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

pachnik

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2019, 12:37:26 PM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable. 

Just Joe

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2019, 12:39:17 PM »
Don't discount regional behavioral differences or rural vs city behavioral differences.

partgypsy

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2019, 12:42:13 PM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

That is a really good point. Even despite all that when I was younger got lots of, "why don't you smile" "youd look nicer if you smiled" also "nice headlights", "like to see you in a wet tshirt", "why won't you dance with me", and things I won't repeat (as well as experiencing a flasher, and a guy sitting next to me on the bus whipping it out and masturbating). I am dreading when my daughters change from being kids and teens to being seen as sexual objects. But I'd like to think things are better now.

KBecks

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2019, 01:25:34 PM »
This comes back to Joe Biden for me.  Does he sniff his male co-worker's hair?  I don't think so! 

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2019, 01:33:15 PM »
This comes back to Joe Biden for me.  Does he sniff his male co-worker's hair?  I don't think so!

Men in power sometimes feel even more entitled to judge/comment on/possess female bodies.

Case in point, our pussy-grabber in chief.

pudding

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2019, 10:14:22 PM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable.

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.

Aelias

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #81 on: July 24, 2019, 10:29:26 AM »

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.

I think it's possible you might not have noticed it because it wasn't directed at you. Speaking for myself, it's easy to ignore the general noise of people living in close proximity to each other in a city; it's entirely different when it's directed at you personally. 

I hope you believe the women in this thread who discussed their lived experience of street harassment.  Among the women I know, myself included, it's a nearly universal experience.  In my experience, not all street harassment was threatening--most of it was easy to brush off, a couple of times I actually found it funny--but part of what sucks about street harassment is when a stranger starts yelling compliments at you, you don't know what that stranger is capable of or what their intentions are.  Sometimes I pretended I just didn't hear, but that usually prompted more comments.  Generally, I flashed a quick smile and kept moving.  But that doesn't mean I appreciated the attention.  It meant that I thought a quick smile was the way least likely to get me followed, cursed out, or worse.

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #82 on: July 24, 2019, 10:51:27 AM »

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.

I think it's possible you might not have noticed it because it wasn't directed at you. Speaking for myself, it's easy to ignore the general noise of people living in close proximity to each other in a city; it's entirely different when it's directed at you personally. 

I hope you believe the women in this thread who discussed their lived experience of street harassment.  Among the women I know, myself included, it's a nearly universal experience.  In my experience, not all street harassment was threatening--most of it was easy to brush off, a couple of times I actually found it funny--but part of what sucks about street harassment is when a stranger starts yelling compliments at you, you don't know what that stranger is capable of or what their intentions are.  Sometimes I pretended I just didn't hear, but that usually prompted more comments.  Generally, I flashed a quick smile and kept moving.  But that doesn't mean I appreciated the attention.  It meant that I thought a quick smile was the way least likely to get me followed, cursed out, or worse.

Yeah, that's the thing with street harassment: you don't know what the stranger's intentions are. And you also don't know what will or won't provoke them to something further. A dude catcalls you as you walk by. Don't acknowledge him? He might get pissed and start following you down the street, yelling insults and obscenities. Give him a quick smile (not because you appreciate it, but because you're trying to just get through this without further harassment)? He might take it as encouragement, and start following you down the street, making further comments on your appearance, maybe some lewd noises -- and then, when he realizes you aren't going to engage further, start yelling insults and obscenities.

Confront him, and tell him you don't appreciate it? Even in a very calm, matter of fact voice? Oh, boy. Buckle up, buttercup. It might make him take a step back, but more than likely it will just make him angry. The sexual harassment equivalent of road rage.

Who knows? Or, maybe he'll just let it go, and focus on the next woman he wants to harass. That's what you hope, anyway. (Which is pretty freaking sad.)

I've had all those scenarios happen to me, multiple times. And you never know which one it's gonna be.

OtherJen

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #83 on: July 24, 2019, 11:22:48 AM »
*shudder* The random leering and unsolicited, sometimes filthy comments in the grocery store and similar places are bad enough. At my old church, there was a creepy older man who used to stare at me and lurk around every Sunday and wait to talk to me, while ignoring all signs that I didnít want to talk to him. I once had a male fellow driver wave frantically at me to get me to roll down my window while at a stoplight; I expected to be told that I had a flat tire or similar but no, he wanted to tell me that Iíd be so much prettier if I smiled.

One of the creepiest stranger harassment episodes in recent memory (although not as creepy as learning that a male now ex-friend has been stalking me) was during a weekday morning walk in my generally safe suburban neighborhood. Creepy dude in a van rolled up alongside me, kept pace with me, and tried to convince me that I should go for a ride with him. He eventually gave up, but the neighborhood was quiet that day, with no one else around and I didnít have my phone. It could have ended very differently.

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #84 on: July 24, 2019, 11:36:41 AM »
*shudder* The random leering and unsolicited, sometimes filthy comments in the grocery store and similar places are bad enough. At my old church, there was a creepy older man who used to stare at me and lurk around every Sunday and wait to talk to me, while ignoring all signs that I didnít want to talk to him. I once had a male fellow driver wave frantically at me to get me to roll down my window while at a stoplight; I expected to be told that I had a flat tire or similar but no, he wanted to tell me that Iíd be so much prettier if I smiled.

One of the creepiest stranger harassment episodes in recent memory (although not as creepy as learning that a male now ex-friend has been stalking me) was during a weekday morning walk in my generally safe suburban neighborhood. Creepy dude in a van rolled up alongside me, kept pace with me, and tried to convince me that I should go for a ride with him. He eventually gave up, but the neighborhood was quiet that day, with no one else around and I didnít have my phone. It could have ended very differently.

Oh, man. That's creepy as hell.

Reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of summers ago. I was taking a long afternoon walk in my neighborhood (urban residential, upper-middle class, bright sunny day, not a sketchy area at all). I was listening to a podcast, earbuds in. A guy walked past me on the sidewalk in the other direction, maybe early 40s. He smiled at me, I did a "cordial but not overly friendly" smile back. Went on my merry way.

A few blocks later, another guy who was standing in front of a house across the street came over to me. I was a little weirded out because he clearly went out of his way to approach me. Apprehensively, I took my earbuds out...

He came over to warn me that some guy had been following me about half a block behind me for a while. He turned and pointed, and I looked to where he was pointing to see the first guy run back down the street in the other direction and duck into an alley.

Thank God for the second guy. Who knows what the first guy had planned.

I'm usually very careful and aware of my surroundings, but that neighborhood at that time of day was about the last place I would ever expect to be stalked. I'm a lot more careful to pay attention to people I encounter on my walks now.

KBecks

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #85 on: July 24, 2019, 11:46:05 AM »
I think nearly every woman has these kinds of stories.

I also wonder if nearly every man has stories about being physically threatened and intimidated by other men.  I don't know, I'm not male, but I would not be surprised if there is a male experience that is the male version of this kind of thing.

I had a weird experience once where a male friend was telling me how he was teaching his girlfriend's toddler, who must have been 3 or 4 years old, which women were "Hey Baby"s and which women were not "Hey Baby"s.  That was one of the weirdest conversations I've had.  So, this stuff is taught, at least by that example. My sons have not been taught this kind of thing, and I am no longer friends with the man who shared it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:52:08 AM by KBecks »

OtherJen

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #86 on: July 24, 2019, 12:33:06 PM »
*shudder* The random leering and unsolicited, sometimes filthy comments in the grocery store and similar places are bad enough. At my old church, there was a creepy older man who used to stare at me and lurk around every Sunday and wait to talk to me, while ignoring all signs that I didnít want to talk to him. I once had a male fellow driver wave frantically at me to get me to roll down my window while at a stoplight; I expected to be told that I had a flat tire or similar but no, he wanted to tell me that Iíd be so much prettier if I smiled.

One of the creepiest stranger harassment episodes in recent memory (although not as creepy as learning that a male now ex-friend has been stalking me) was during a weekday morning walk in my generally safe suburban neighborhood. Creepy dude in a van rolled up alongside me, kept pace with me, and tried to convince me that I should go for a ride with him. He eventually gave up, but the neighborhood was quiet that day, with no one else around and I didnít have my phone. It could have ended very differently.

Oh, man. That's creepy as hell.

Reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of summers ago. I was taking a long afternoon walk in my neighborhood (urban residential, upper-middle class, bright sunny day, not a sketchy area at all). I was listening to a podcast, earbuds in. A guy walked past me on the sidewalk in the other direction, maybe early 40s. He smiled at me, I did a "cordial but not overly friendly" smile back. Went on my merry way.

A few blocks later, another guy who was standing in front of a house across the street came over to me. I was a little weirded out because he clearly went out of his way to approach me. Apprehensively, I took my earbuds out...

He came over to warn me that some guy had been following me about half a block behind me for a while. He turned and pointed, and I looked to where he was pointing to see the first guy run back down the street in the other direction and duck into an alley.

Thank God for the second guy. Who knows what the first guy had planned.

I'm usually very careful and aware of my surroundings, but that neighborhood at that time of day was about the last place I would ever expect to be stalked. I'm a lot more careful to pay attention to people I encounter on my walks now.

Ugh, ugh, ugh. Definitely thank god for the second guy. This is why I don't wear earbuds when I'm out walking (and I hate that it's even an issue; the men in my life don't think twice about it).

spartana

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2019, 12:40:58 PM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable.

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.
Like @Aelias said, if its not directed at you personally you probably never noticed it. It IS a constant thing even for old farts like me. Being grabbed or followed while riding your bike or out walking etc or just the "compliments" is real and basicly just plain old sexual harrashment. Throw in a serious stalker or 2 and something simple like a walk in the park starts to seem actually dangerous.

While this is a totally different thing from compliments or comments from male and female friends and family mentioned before, it is often true that many men (and probably some women) who are total strangers often feel they can make inappropriate comments to anyone they want. Although an 80 year old woman saying my hair is pretty or my smile is pretty feels different then a strange man saying the same. Maybe that's my own sex bias and I should assume the old woman and the younger man both have the same harmless intentions.

pudding

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2019, 12:59:01 AM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable.

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.
Like @Aelias said, if its not directed at you personally you probably never noticed it. It IS a constant thing even for old farts like me. Being grabbed or followed while riding your bike or out walking etc or just the "compliments" is real and basicly just plain old sexual harrashment. Throw in a serious stalker or 2 and something simple like a walk in the park starts to seem actually dangerous.

While this is a totally different thing from compliments or comments from male and female friends and family mentioned before, it is often true that many men (and probably some women) who are total strangers often feel they can make inappropriate comments to anyone they want. Although an 80 year old woman saying my hair is pretty or my smile is pretty feels different then a strange man saying the same. Maybe that's my own sex bias and I should assume the old woman and the younger man both have the same harmless intentions.

It could be that.  I have an adult daughter who would probably be considered attractive by many and also 2 teenage granddaughters who I think it's fair to say are attractive as one is a successful actress with lots of instagram followers. I can only think of 1 occasion where my daughter mentioned a guy harassing her. May have happened and I don't know about it, I don't know.
Also actor grandchild is mixed race with one parent being black. She did an interview and was asked if she'd ever encountered racism and she thought and said "no, never"
I have an older sister, who I remember when we were young would shout "show us your c*ck" at men working on the roads.  My own personal experiences in my life are somewhat at odds with what I often hear.

OtherJen

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2019, 05:49:36 AM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable.

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.
Like @Aelias said, if its not directed at you personally you probably never noticed it. It IS a constant thing even for old farts like me. Being grabbed or followed while riding your bike or out walking etc or just the "compliments" is real and basicly just plain old sexual harrashment. Throw in a serious stalker or 2 and something simple like a walk in the park starts to seem actually dangerous.

While this is a totally different thing from compliments or comments from male and female friends and family mentioned before, it is often true that many men (and probably some women) who are total strangers often feel they can make inappropriate comments to anyone they want. Although an 80 year old woman saying my hair is pretty or my smile is pretty feels different then a strange man saying the same. Maybe that's my own sex bias and I should assume the old woman and the younger man both have the same harmless intentions.

It could be that.  I have an adult daughter who would probably be considered attractive by many and also 2 teenage granddaughters who I think it's fair to say are attractive as one is a successful actress with lots of instagram followers. I can only think of 1 occasion where my daughter mentioned a guy harassing her. May have happened and I don't know about it, I don't know.
Also actor grandchild is mixed race with one parent being black. She did an interview and was asked if she'd ever encountered racism and she thought and said "no, never"
I have an older sister, who I remember when we were young would shout "show us your c*ck" at men working on the roads.  My own personal experiences in my life are somewhat at odds with what I often hear.

I don't think I've ever told my dad about the street/other harassment. It would be too upsetting for him. There's nothing he can do about it. I don't always tell my husband for the same reason. I suspect that many of us downplay the issue, either for this reason or because we think we won't be believed.

KBecks

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2019, 06:15:42 AM »
Nobody talks about it.  What is the point?  It is also embarrassing.

People might talk about it if it is dangerous, or they think a predator is out there.  But normal rude guys?  Not worth the time to discuss.

Villanelle

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2019, 09:49:19 AM »
Hit the nail on the head, Villanelle.

I remember that back when I used to get a lot of street harassment from men, it was often in the terms Villanelle talks about.  Random guys on the street would shout "smile, beautiful" or make a complimentary comment about a body part (or make X-rated comments which I won't repeat) and I was somehow meant to take that as a compliment and be flattered that these random guys thought I was sexually attractive when what I really wanted was to just walk down the street without being harassed/having my body commented upon like (I assume) men do.  Now that I'm in my late 40s I enjoy the heck out of being invisible to the street harassers.  I love being able to walk down the street without the weird comments or the fear that someone will make a weird comment if I look in their direction.  Normal men still give me attention just as I give them attention but no weird "compliments" - what joy.

I'm in my mid-50's and love getting no street harassment.  It used to make me feel really uncomfortable.

I've lived in Vancouver for 25 years and I can't think of one occasion when I've actually seen street harassment.  I've heard people talk about it, but not actually seen it.
Like @Aelias said, if its not directed at you personally you probably never noticed it. It IS a constant thing even for old farts like me. Being grabbed or followed while riding your bike or out walking etc or just the "compliments" is real and basicly just plain old sexual harrashment. Throw in a serious stalker or 2 and something simple like a walk in the park starts to seem actually dangerous.

While this is a totally different thing from compliments or comments from male and female friends and family mentioned before, it is often true that many men (and probably some women) who are total strangers often feel they can make inappropriate comments to anyone they want. Although an 80 year old woman saying my hair is pretty or my smile is pretty feels different then a strange man saying the same. Maybe that's my own sex bias and I should assume the old woman and the younger man both have the same harmless intentions.

It could be that.  I have an adult daughter who would probably be considered attractive by many and also 2 teenage granddaughters who I think it's fair to say are attractive as one is a successful actress with lots of instagram followers. I can only think of 1 occasion where my daughter mentioned a guy harassing her. May have happened and I don't know about it, I don't know.
Also actor grandchild is mixed race with one parent being black. She did an interview and was asked if she'd ever encountered racism and she thought and said "no, never"
I have an older sister, who I remember when we were young would shout "show us your c*ck" at men working on the roads.  My own personal experiences in my life are somewhat at odds with what I often hear.

Street harassment is an every day thing  Not that it happens to every woman every day, but it is quite frequent.  I don't think I have every once, in a 20 year relationship, mentioned to my husband that I was cat called or otherwise harassed on the street, but it has happened dozens and dozens of times. 

What would be the point in mentioning it?  It would solve nothing.  And frankly, it's a bit humiliating, so I don't exactly want to spread the word and linger over it.  I didn't tell my parents when I was cruelly teased in junior high because the last thing I wanted was to dwell on those experiences.  Spreading the to other parts of my life would have made them worse, and done nothing to prevent them.

So lack of mentioning has nothing to do with lack of happening.  Also, attractiveness has VERY little to do with the situation.  Just as attractive women aren't really raped more often than less attractive women; these things are about power, not attraction.

And maybe it hasn't happened much to the women in your life for some reason.  Consider them very, very fortunate.  But trust that it very much does happen, very often, to very many women.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 09:51:42 AM by Villanelle »

Kris

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2019, 09:52:13 AM »
I'm sure I never mentioned it to my father when he was alive. Because it would have upset him and worried him.

I never talked to my mom about it, either. Because it's just so common. It's not "an event."

ysette9

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2019, 09:58:28 AM »
That was the whole point of the #metoo movement, to make it clear that this kind of harassment is pretty universally experienced by women. I am older now and live in a professional/upper middle class bubble, so it almost doesnít happen to me anymore. It certainly did in the past.

I stumbled upon an ancient email where I wrote to a friend about how some kid had grabbed my boobs when I was walking home on a trail from school. I had totally forgotten about it (buried the memory?). I shared that with my husband and he was surprised enough that initially he thought I was telling him about some dream I had had.

We moved from a slightly sketchy area (ďtransitioningĒ) to a much nicer neighborhood. I canít begin to describe the mental load that fell off by no longer thinking about being aware of my surroundings and judging safety and not weighing whether to go for a walk after dusk or not. To just feel safe walking down the street is a big luxury, one I donít think my husband can relate to.

KBecks

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2019, 11:10:27 AM »
#metoo is a good thing. I think it's the right thing. And what I love about it is that women can stick together through these common experiences and feel stronger.

spartana

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2019, 11:15:39 AM »
@pudding as others have said this happens all the time - generally from the time a girl hits puberty at 13 or so. It doesn't really have anything to do with attractiveness or even age, but is a power trip some guys think is fun. Most of us don't actively talk about it as its a part of our lives so you may have to directly ask your daughters and granddaughters their experience.

For example a couple of weeks ago I was walking on a idyllic county road up in redwood groves in NorCal and some dude who was herding his cows say me, whipped it out, and proceeded to masturbate. I was like "ugh you gotta be kidding me" but its a common enough thing (along with air humping and making jacking off motions while saying "hey baby you want some of this" or similar) that I totally forgot about it until now. I'm sure even if your daughter didn't experience this.kind of thing they probably have guys saying random sexual things to them much of their lives.

BTW years ago the exact same thing happened to me in Ireland (and similair types of things in other countries) so it's not just a USA thing.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 11:20:57 AM by spartana »

BabyShark

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2019, 11:30:28 AM »
this reminds me of that viral tweet a little while ago that said something to the effect of "women, if there were no men in the world for 24 hours, what would you do?" and so many of the responses were "go for a walk outside."

spartana

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2019, 11:38:41 AM »
Ha ha. I still do everything I want - and often by myself - and just ignore everyone but it always amazes me that some complete stranger feels it's ok to say or do whatever they want. Although no one has ever told me I'd look better with a couple of dead spiders glued to my eyes (eyelash extensions)....yet. I might get pissed about that ;-).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2019, 11:33:43 PM by spartana »

ysette9

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2019, 11:47:17 AM »
@pudding as others have said this happens all the time - generally from the time a girl hits puberty at 13 or so. It doesn't really have anything to do with attractiveness or even age, but is a power trip some guys think is fun. Most of us don't actively talk about it as its a part of our lives so you may have to directly ask your daughters and granddaughters their experience.

For example a couple of weeks ago I was walking on a idyllic county road up in redwood groves in NorCal and some dude who was herding his cows say me, whipped it out, and proceeded to masturbate. I was like "ugh you gotta be kidding me" but its a common enough thing (along with air humping and making jacking off motions while saying "hey baby you want some of this" or similar) that I totally forgot about it until now. I'm sure even if your daughter didn't experience this.kind of thing they probably have guys saying random sexual things to them much of their lives.

BTW years ago the exact same thing happened to me in Ireland (and similair types of things in other countries) so it's not just a USA thing.
Good point. I should add that the boob-grabbing incident I mentioned above was in france.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Eyelash Extensions - wtf?
« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2019, 11:56:42 AM »
1. Beauty is a form of power. Those who wield it successfully (some obviously, some insidiously) enjoy massive results.
2. Beauty is also a form of female war paint, used among women for status.
3. Beauty is a huge business with a great profit margin manufacturing tiny amounts of cheap products, marketing them as having magical properties and selling them at vast markup.
4. There are plenty of male analogs to the female beauty industry. As a businesswoman, any high-profit-margin industry is very attractive to me!
5. Thankfully we have a choice in how we present ourselves as women. The only gross part about beauty today IMHO is any sense of intense prep being required for public activity. However, a number of celebrities and others have chosen to flout this and are known for their signature *lack* of makeup (Alicia Keys, Tilda Swinton).
6. Hair is incredibly powerful as a beauty signifier and can be more effective than facial plastic surgery.
7. The most beautiful women in history have had an uncanny ability to magnify their signature features and downplay others.
8. Trends in physical beauty are fickle and often a celebrity with an unusual feature is the one who launches the next trend.