Author Topic: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant  (Read 49304 times)

mm1970

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2016, 01:18:22 PM »
darning your own socks.

I don't know if anyone here has played the Monkey Island computer games made by Lucasarts, I just started playing their newest version and there's a line where Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate, looks at a pair of socks and says, "Those socks need a good darning." Hesitates and then raises fists, "DARN YA SOCKS!"
My 10 year old just threw a pair of socks away this morning because they have holes in them.  (I just bought him 12 pairs of socks a few months ago).  I pulled them out so I could fix the holes!

BFGirl

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2016, 02:07:56 PM »
Great post Kitsune!

I like the part about how you live where they vacation :)  I feel the same way about where I live.  Last year I took a "staycation" and will probably do the same this year because coming home is like going on vacation except I have my own bed and stuff.

FireLane

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2016, 06:02:07 AM »
That was an awesome rant, Kitsune! I want to bookmark this thread so I can show it to someone the next time I'm trying to explain what Mustachianism is all about. This is one of the best explanations of the concept I've seen.

ender

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2016, 06:09:14 AM »
That has to be frustrating.

It's interesting the things that make people think we're rich or poor.

Some of my coworkers think I'm dirt poor.  I never go out to lunch, I drive the sort of car a normal person would throw away, and I wear thrift store clothes.

Some of them think I'm a millionaire because I'm 25 and own two houses (one almost paid off).

It's like they can't connect the two.

I think the biggest thing is that most people do not realize their financial situation is death by a thousand paper cuts.

"No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood" is a despair.com image which I think describes nearly everyone who earns enough but is still broke.

Quote
This. I think if you care about aesthetics, you can learn - it's not an inherent skill. I mean, it takes an eye for design, but if you care enough to notice when stuff doesn't work, you have the potential to train yourself to see what might.

Alternatively, marry someone who has that eye :-)

MrMoogle

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2016, 06:51:19 AM »
Maybe if you were a man you'd get a similar response ("You married well, huh?" or whatever dudes say to each other). Hard to check of course.
The only time I've heard this was in regard to food.  My coworker's wife is an amazing cook, so he married well :)
But then again, we don't talk about money much here.

Ann

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2016, 07:43:48 AM »
And stop throwing shade at me because I have what you don't! I have what I chose to have! Which means I GAVE UP OTHER THINGS, and you don't see me whining about not having THOSE! ARGH.

Maybe people get confused
They hear "The best revenge is a life well-lived".  So they see someone with a well-lived life, and they think "That must be some evil revenge plot!"  ;-P
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 07:45:46 AM by Ann »

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2016, 07:50:41 AM »
Maybe people get confused
They hear "The best revenge is a life well-lived".  So they see someone with a well-lived life, and they think "That must be some evil revenge plot!"  ;-P

This made me laugh out loud - thank you!

Kitsune

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2016, 11:52:20 AM »
Follow-up rant. Deep breath. Deep breath.

I usually do my groceries over my lunch break (because I've got a system streamlined enough to take a half-hour and it avoids me needing to drive into town to do it on another day - the joys of country living). A colleague asked of she could hitch a ride, since she lived next door and wasn't working after lunch, instead of taking the bus; sure, ok, no problem, hop in, I'm willing to take a 3-minute detour to drop you off in order to be nice, it doesn't really cost me anything here (other than blood pressure points, apparently).

Both of us were getting a full week's worth of groceries; she has an extra kid (twin toddlers, to my one toddler), but I'm throwing 3 dinner parties this weekend.

I got: 20$ worth of milk (will last a week, yay Quebec's high milk prices). 30$ worth of beer (yay taxes on booze). Vegetables, potatoes, steak, chicken thighs to make grilled portugese chicken, fresh salmon, fresh berries, kiwi, and pears, a large bag of apples, some tofu and frozen mango for breakfast smoothies, etc. Total cost of the week's groceries: 120$ plus the beer, which will, honestly, be enough beer to last 2 months or so. We'll combine that with our pantry stash (rice, baking supplies, etc - I budget about 20$/week for pantry re-stocking) and we're hitting our budget limit of 140$/week CAD. And drinking decent beer, and eating steak and salmon and fresh veggies and lots and lots of fruit - could be lower, but this is a pretty great set of meals for the price!

She got: I have no idea. SO MANY PACKAGES. Packaged individual servigs of apple sauce. Packaged snacks. Packaged individual juice boxes. Packaged and wrapped pre-marinated BBQ meat and ribs. Cans of juice. Boxes of cereal. I think the only fresh fruit I saw in her cart was a bag of apples. Total cost for her week's groceries: 270$.

The 3-minute ride to her house to drop her off before heading back to the office was filled with her complaining about how 'groceries are so expensive' and 'no one can get ahead' and, I KID YOU NOT, how 'SHE CAN NEVER AFFORD TO EAT LIKE I DO, BECAUSE WHO HAS THE MONEY FOR STEAK'. Direct-bloody-quote, and I can't even.

At that point, I actually just went... you realize that your groceries were twice the price of mine, right? Like, you CAN afford to eat steak. Frankly, the steak was on sale - 4 steaks for tomorrow night's dinner was half the price of the box of chicken nuggets she bought.

To which she replied that yes, but then she'd have to pay her household help extra time so that they'd cook it because she didn't know how.

'Can't get ahead' and 'can't afford to eat steak' vs HOUSEHOLD HELP. I freakin' give up.

(Note: this household help is NOT her house cleaner. Both of us hire house cleaners, no shame, live with your choices, etc. This household help is a nanny/cook combo IN ADDITION to her house cleaner. Because how else would one manage their household, you see.)

Again: if you have the money, make your choices, live with what you chose, and be happy. Blessings, etc. But don't expect me to agree that the cost of food is SO HIGH when it's because you're using packaged foods that you then pay someone to put in the oven for you. ZERO SYMPATHY.

Now, I'm going to have a cup of tea (from tea bags stashed in my desk, to hell with paying 2$ for stewed leaves at the café) and calm down again.

Ye gods. Can't get ahead, indeed.

ketchup

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2016, 12:14:46 PM »
Ho.  Lee.  Shit.

Wow.

Nederstash

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2016, 12:47:12 PM »
darning your own socks.

I don't know if anyone here has played the Monkey Island computer games made by Lucasarts, I just started playing their newest version and there's a line where Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate, looks at a pair of socks and says, "Those socks need a good darning." Hesitates and then raises fists, "DARN YA SOCKS!"

Beware, I've been known to start dating people based on Monkey Island quotes. Space Quest works too.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2016, 01:59:19 PM »
Wow your coworker's willful ignorance is staggering.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2016, 02:07:22 PM »
Follow-up rant. Deep breath. Deep breath.
....

*head explodes*

Warlord1986

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2016, 03:28:31 PM »
Poor, poor woman not to have access to google.

I'm so blessed that when I want or need to cook something new for the first time, I google 'how to cook x' and it would bring up how to cook x. I never realized what a tremendous privilege it is to be able to google recipes. Truly, we have no idea how hard life is for those who cannot go to their computers, go to the google website, and google something simple that people have known how to do for forever. We are so lucky.

In all serious, I know I'm a condescending jerk sometimes, but how hard can it be to google 'how to cook a steak'? It's not magic.

mm1970

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2016, 04:04:36 PM »

Dezrah

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2016, 04:12:35 PM »
10/10 rants.  Can't wait for the next issue.


Poor, poor woman not to have access to google.

I'm so blessed that when I want or need to cook something new for the first time, I google 'how to cook x' and it would bring up how to cook x.

Funny family story:

My parents, sister, BIL, and youngest brother are visiting my older brother out of state.  My youngest brother (who's about 23 years old at this point) is notorious for sleeping in until around 2pm whenever the family hangs out over vacations.  Since they have a schedule to keep however, he's up and about so they tell him to make some scrambled eggs for everyone for breakfast.  "Umm, okay."  A few minutes later, they look over and notice he's just cracking eggs into a pan and kinda moving them around.

Sister: What are you doing?
Brother: Making scrambled eggs.
Sister: What? No you're not. You're supposed to beat the eggs, add some milk and seasoning, not just push raw eggs in a hot pan.
Brother: Well I didn't know that.
Sister: Fair enough, but when you realized you didn't know how to make scrambled eggs you didn't think to just ask one of us here or even Google a simple recipe?
Brother: ...

He's getting better but we still rib him for this kind of stuff all the time.
Family:

Psychstache

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2016, 04:51:21 PM »
Poor, poor woman not to have access to google.

I'm so blessed that when I want or need to cook something new for the first time, I google 'how to cook x' and it would bring up how to cook x. I never realized what a tremendous privilege it is to be able to google recipes. Truly, we have no idea how hard life is for those who cannot go to their computers, go to the google website, and google something simple that people have known how to do for forever. We are so lucky.

In all serious, I know I'm a condescending jerk sometimes, but how hard can it be to google 'how to cook a steak'? It's not magic.
One of my best friends will reply to people's dumb Facebook question posts with a LMGTFY link. Makes me laugh every time.

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MgoSam

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2016, 11:51:52 PM »
darning your own socks.

I don't know if anyone here has played the Monkey Island computer games made by Lucasarts, I just started playing their newest version and there's a line where Guybrush Threepwood, Mighty Pirate, looks at a pair of socks and says, "Those socks need a good darning." Hesitates and then raises fists, "DARN YA SOCKS!"

Beware, I've been known to start dating people based on Monkey Island quotes. Space Quest works too.

You fight like a dairy farmer!

shelivesthedream

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2016, 01:48:50 AM »
I... Just... Wow.

I am so glad you pointed out that your groceries cost twice as much, and I cannot believe her answer! Did she seem embarrassed at all? Like she was trying to cover the fact that she realised she was an idiot?

LeRainDrop

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2016, 02:43:41 AM »
I... Just... Wow.

I am so glad you pointed out that your colleague's groceries cost twice as much, and I cannot believe her answer! Did she seem embarrassed at all? Like she was trying to cover the fact that she realised she was an idiot?

I'm totally blown away by this, too!

Kitsune

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2016, 04:48:33 AM »
I... Just... Wow.

I am so glad you pointed out that your colleague's groceries cost twice as much, and I cannot believe her answer! Did she seem embarrassed at all? Like she was trying to cover the fact that she realised she was an idiot?

I'm totally blown away by this, too!

No, she was just super matter-of-fact about it. Like, obviously she doesn't know how to cook and so this is how she handles it.

And, like... FINE, but don't complain about being broke when it's the direct result of your choices.

Some of my colleagues are broke for actual reasons - one has a sick spouse, for example. Sympathy. But the ones making choices like this and then expecting the universe to just pour more money into the moneypit? zero patience.

Paul der Krake

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #70 on: May 28, 2016, 05:18:09 AM »
Grocery store layouts typically follow the same pattern everywhere.

One end has the fresh vegetables and fruit. The other end has bread, rice, milk, cheese, other refrigerated items. Everything else in between is packaged crap, with some non-perishable goodies (jam, cereal, baking supplies) scientifically sprinkled here and there to force you to venture into these aisles of diabetes and doom.

If you regularly spend more than 20% of your grocery budget in the middle aisles, you are probably eating like crap, and overpaying for it.

kite

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #71 on: May 28, 2016, 08:44:27 AM »
There is no question that India in 2016 is better than India in 1970 as far as upward mobility.

There is also no question that the US in 2016 is better than India in 2016 as far as upward mobility, in general. 

Two additional points:

US in 1970 was better for upward mobility than US in 2016


I have to disagree.
1970 sucked for the majority.
We think of the past as the good old days, but it's a mental trick your brain plays on you.  It was only better for a minority of the population because the playing field was skewed to their advantage.
In 1970, all of the following faced legal, cultural or physical barriers to advancement:
Black people
Gay people
Female people
White, heterosexual males of draft age.
Those with any sort of disability.
 
It's better now than it ever was.

vivophoenix

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #72 on: May 28, 2016, 09:02:38 AM »
There is no question that India in 2016 is better than India in 1970 as far as upward mobility.

There is also no question that the US in 2016 is better than India in 2016 as far as upward mobility, in general. 

Two additional points:

US in 1970 was better for upward mobility than US in 2016


I have to disagree.
1970 sucked for the majority.
We think of the past as the good old days, but it's a mental trick your brain plays on you.  It was only better for a minority of the population because the playing field was skewed to their advantage.
In 1970, all of the following faced legal, cultural or physical barriers to advancement:
Black people
Gay people
Female people
White, heterosexual males of draft age.
Those with any sort of disability.
 
It's better now than it ever was.

it 'sucks' now because blue collar white men who has usually had it the easiest are now competing with the above classes, and it sucks to no longer be the teachers pet. (insert those three dots in the shape of a triangle here) Trump

MgoSam

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2016, 11:13:30 AM »
That's a fair point, though for some reason my family found society to be very accepting...even though we are brown. I remember hearing stories about my grandfather and how his neighbors loved him and went out of their way to help take care of him when he came over.

Hearing stories about this make me appreciate being in the US, whenever my parents hear about intolerance here in the states they just shake their head and say, "They should go see what things are like in India," as a way of saying how insular Indian society can be. Here they were able to come without much resources and prosper within a generation. They do appreciate that it is now possible to do the same in India and that things are changing for the better.

My point earlier about more Indians staying in India certainly is true. That said, if it was a place to compare where someone would want to be today, I agree that nearly all would say India, but my point was partially to talk about the future. I think of India still as an economy in ascendancy. There are a ton of structural problems in the country (pollution, corruption, poverty, caste, just to name a few), but if they are able to nail them together it will be amazing to see what they can accomplish. Right now it is very tough to do business in India, I know that first-hand as an importer. I'm able to bring things in due to my family connections but otherwise contracts and promises would be meaningless.

Making Cookies

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2016, 02:34:29 PM »
Poor, poor woman not to have access to google.

I'm so blessed that when I want or need to cook something new for the first time, I google 'how to cook x' and it would bring up how to cook x. I never realized what a tremendous privilege it is to be able to google recipes. Truly, we have no idea how hard life is for those who cannot go to their computers, go to the google website, and google something simple that people have known how to do for forever. We are so lucky.

In all serious, I know I'm a condescending jerk sometimes, but how hard can it be to google 'how to cook a steak'? It's not magic.

How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

Goldielocks

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2016, 06:00:06 PM »
umm,,

Wow.   

Doesn't nanny / cook mean that she does not need to buy (much) packaged food, because, um, the cook can prep it?   Maybe the nanny/cook is just a nanny, or is also secretly laughing at her spendypants employer for blowing money around.

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2016, 07:04:22 PM »
That's a fair point, though for some reason my family found society to be very accepting...even though we are brown. I remember hearing stories about my grandfather and how his neighbors loved him and went out of their way to help take care of him when he came over.

Hearing stories about this make me appreciate being in the US, whenever my parents hear about intolerance here in the states they just shake their head and say, "They should go see what things are like in India," as a way of saying how insular Indian society can be. Here they were able to come without much resources and prosper within a generation. They do appreciate that it is now possible to do the same in India and that things are changing for the better.

My point earlier about more Indians staying in India certainly is true. That said, if it was a place to compare where someone would want to be today, I agree that nearly all would say India, but my point was partially to talk about the future. I think of India still as an economy in ascendancy. There are a ton of structural problems in the country (pollution, corruption, poverty, caste, just to name a few), but if they are able to nail them together it will be amazing to see what they can accomplish. Right now it is very tough to do business in India, I know that first-hand as an importer. I'm able to bring things in due to my family connections but otherwise contracts and promises would be meaningless.

Isn't India a pretty gigantic country, though? I wouldn't expect New Delhi to have a lot in common with Bangaluru or Chennai.

KodeBlue

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2016, 03:58:25 AM »
umm,,

Wow.   

Doesn't nanny / cook mean that she does not need to buy (much) packaged food, because, um, the cook can prep it?   Maybe the nanny/cook is just a nanny, or is also secretly laughing at her spendypants employer for blowing money around.

Kitsune

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2016, 07:07:51 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.

G-dog

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2016, 08:20:11 AM »
A little late to the thread but THIS. WAS. AWESOME.

you give good rant Kitsune!

Rezdent

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2016, 08:36:31 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.
Or:
Cooking is beneath you to learn because someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.
Ug, I've met one of these people.

hunniebun

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2016, 09:00:18 AM »
Great post. I was with a friend who was lamenting over how 'people' can afford to have 'everything'.  I made the point that you can never know a person's financial situation, maybe they are in debt? maybe they had an inheritance? Maybe they work their ass off to pay for it all?  Maybe it is some combination of the above.  Comparing is a sure way to create misery.   Your places sounds wonderful and speaking of envy...I am envious that you have access to a saw mill! DH would LOVE that.  He is so handy and can build anything in the world, but the limiting factor is still the cost of/access to enough wood!    Keep doing what you are doing. The great news it that you don't owe anyone anything...especially an explanation!!!

ender

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2016, 09:13:04 AM »
Great post. I was with a friend who was lamenting over how 'people' can afford to have 'everything'.  I made the point that you can never know a person's financial situation, maybe they are in debt? maybe they had an inheritance? Maybe they work their ass off to pay for it all?  Maybe it is some combination of the above.  Comparing is a sure way to create misery.   Your places sounds wonderful and speaking of envy...I am envious that you have access to a saw mill! DH would LOVE that.  He is so handy and can build anything in the world, but the limiting factor is still the cost of/access to enough wood!    Keep doing what you are doing. The great news it that you don't owe anyone anything...especially an explanation!!!

A big factor too is you never see what people are not having.

Maybe the family who has everything (nice cars/house) doesn't eat out, doesn't pay for daycare, doesn't vacation extravagantly, has older furniture, and doesn't have the latest X.



TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2016, 09:30:33 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.

Or it could be a case of specialization. It does take time to learn to cook, and a person who doesn't grow up in a cooking household doesn't get to learn it by osmosis. If a person spends a disproportionate amount of time pursuing, say, a technical or artistic skill that makes him or her very financially successful, the time invested can preclude learning a lot of other stuff. I've met engineers that were incapable of changing a tire or unplugging a drain.

Syonyk

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2016, 09:34:35 AM »
A few minutes later, they look over and notice he's just cracking eggs into a pan and kinda moving them around.

Sister: What are you doing?
Brother: Making scrambled eggs.
Sister: What? No you're not. You're supposed to beat the eggs, add some milk and seasoning, not just push raw eggs in a hot pan.
Brother: Well I didn't know that.
Sister: Fair enough, but when you realized you didn't know how to make scrambled eggs you didn't think to just ask one of us here or even Google a simple recipe?
Brother: ...

Huh.

I mean, sometimes I'll whip them in a bowl with milk & stuff, but most of the time I make scrambled eggs, I just crack them into the pan and stir them around with a spatula...

ender

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2016, 09:36:41 AM »
I mean, sometimes I'll whip them in a bowl with milk & stuff, but most of the time I make scrambled eggs, I just crack them into the pan and stir them around with a spatula...

+1

I do the same, even the "sometimes" :)

sonjak

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2016, 09:38:30 AM »
Agreed that it can be frustrating when people say something is purely based on luck rather than realizing that choices (often daily choices) are the main factor.  Like someone who commented upthread about weight being luck-caused, not work-related.

At my last job, several of my coworkers told me I was "lucky" I was thin because they hadn't seen me when I was heavier so they assumed I had always been thin or healthy weight and that I just happened to be born that way.  One of these coworkers ate chocolate muffins, cookies or similar treats EVERY SINGLE DAY.  My snacks consisted of fruit and nuts and I walked every day.  That isn't luck (good or bad), it's a lifestyle choice.

More recently a neighbor told me I was "lucky" because "you don't have kids or anyone else to worry about."  I used birth control and got a divorce.  Lucky me!

Rezdent

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2016, 09:40:11 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.

Or it could be a case of specialization. It does take time to learn to cook, and a person who doesn't grow up in a cooking household doesn't get to learn it by osmosis. If a person spends a disproportionate amount of time pursuing, say, a technical or artistic skill that makes him or her very financially successful, the time invested can preclude learning a lot of other stuff. I've met engineers that were incapable of changing a tire or unplugging a drain.
I'd argue that an engineer can read, and therefore was capable of changing a tire or unplugging a drain.  Now that we have YouTube, they don't even have to read much to find the video.  Motivation is a different thing, and goes back to "others can do this for me".

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2016, 10:07:39 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.

Or it could be a case of specialization. It does take time to learn to cook, and a person who doesn't grow up in a cooking household doesn't get to learn it by osmosis. If a person spends a disproportionate amount of time pursuing, say, a technical or artistic skill that makes him or her very financially successful, the time invested can preclude learning a lot of other stuff. I've met engineers that were incapable of changing a tire or unplugging a drain.
I'd argue that an engineer can read, and therefore was capable of changing a tire or unplugging a drain.  Now that we have YouTube, they don't even have to read much to find the video.  Motivation is a different thing, and goes back to "others can do this for me".

By the same logic, anyone who can read is capable of following the instructions in a recipe too though, or imitating a YouTube cooking video. The special irony with the engineer is that the missing practical skill relates to the theoretical work he or she does for a living. I've yet to hear of a nutritionist who doesn't know how to boil an egg or a medical doctor who doesn't know how to follow cough medicine dosage instructions.

I do agree that learning a skill comes down to motivation.

Kitsune

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2016, 12:04:52 PM »
Agreed that it can be frustrating when people say something is purely based on luck rather than realizing that choices (often daily choices) are the main factor.  Like someone who commented upthread about weight being luck-caused, not work-related.

At my last job, several of my coworkers told me I was "lucky" I was thin because they hadn't seen me when I was heavier so they assumed I had always been thin or healthy weight and that I just happened to be born that way.  One of these coworkers ate chocolate muffins, cookies or similar treats EVERY SINGLE DAY.  My snacks consisted of fruit and nuts and I walked every day.  That isn't luck (good or bad), it's a lifestyle choice.

More recently a neighbor told me I was "lucky" because "you don't have kids or anyone else to worry about."  I used birth control and got a divorce.  Lucky me!

Well, to be fair, part of it can be due to luck, aka, genetics: my husband and I eat the same thing and he reliable eats twice what I do, and yet I gain weight by blinking and he still fits into the suit he wore for his prom. That said, genetics aren't destiny - eat healthy food (and the occasional treat), walk a lot, and control the drinking, and you'll be thinner than you would be otherwise.

But, yeah, I get your point - it's not 'luck', it's 'reasonable circumstances COMBINED WITH EFFORT'. The reasonable circumstances are important (just like with finances...) but they are NOT the reason/excuse/whatever BS people are telling themselves to avoid facing the logical circumstances for their lack of effort.

Nederstash

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2016, 02:07:58 PM »
Preach! I just want to tear my hair out when people harp on me for not getting the latest gadget/laptop/tv or blowing cash on cocktails, but then at the same time laugh when I mention early retirement, wishing me good luck in cheating the system, talking to me like I'm some delusional nutcase. It's not a system, you numbskulls, it's math! Guess what, the number of cocktails you drink can actually be translated directly to days, months, years you have to work extra before you get to do whatever you please.

That said, I do budget for eating out, cocktails and a good laptop. But in moderation. Because I really just want to enjoy these things exponentially over the years. Classic tortoise/hare race. First order of business when I retire: Monday morning 9 AM, having a giant pina colada while you are stuck in traffic to your miserable desk job.

(I am a sadistic tortoise)

Digital Dogma

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2016, 02:35:46 PM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.
Or:
Cooking is beneath you to learn because someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.
Ug, I've met one of these people.
I get that from some people too, and men who think cooking isn't masculine.

Know what else is not masculine? Starving to death because you're unable to track, kill, clean, and cook dinner. Better hope life stays easy if you don't know how to cook for yourself.

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2016, 02:59:30 PM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.
Or:
Cooking is beneath you to learn because someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.
Ug, I've met one of these people.
I get that from some people too, and men who think cooking isn't masculine.

Know what else is not masculine? Starving to death because you're unable to track, kill, clean, and cook dinner. Better hope life stays easy if you don't know how to cook for yourself.

Another thing that tends to cost a man his "masculine" card is being stuck in a relationship with an abusive wife, because he's unable to survive on his own. Male abuse victims get very little respect or help from society as a whole, which is unfair.

Cassie

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2016, 05:29:42 PM »
Does your co-worker have any $ left over after paying nanny/cook, expensive crap food, cleaners, etc ? Or is she basically working to have a pampered life?  I had cleaners when I worked f.t. and they were worth every dime but this woman seems ridiculous. As someone else pointed out aren't cooks supposed to cook?

MgoSam

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2016, 07:28:18 PM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.
Or:
Cooking is beneath you to learn because someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.
Ug, I've met one of these people.
I get that from some people too, and men who think cooking isn't masculine.

Know what else is not masculine? Starving to death because you're unable to track, kill, clean, and cook dinner. Better hope life stays easy if you don't know how to cook for yourself.

Another thing that tends to cost a man his "masculine" card is being stuck in a relationship with an abusive wife, because he's unable to survive on his own. Male abuse victims get very little respect or help from society as a whole, which is unfair.

Agreed! I've heard of some relationships where the man was being physically abused by his wife and was too ashamed to say anything or leave, it's really sad and unfortunate that they are continuing to suffer as a result.

kite

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #95 on: May 31, 2016, 07:13:18 AM »
How are people able to be professionally successful enough to hire help at home but are unable to teach themselves how to cook???

From what I gather, it's a piece of mental acrobatics that requires you to simultaneously believe that cooking is a complicated skill that comes naturally to some and is not learned and therefore cannot be learned by you AND that cooking is easy and someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.

The co-existance of these beliefs mystify me.
Or:
Cooking is beneath you to learn because someone else should do it for you for minimum wage.
Ug, I've met one of these people.
I get that from some people too, and men who think cooking isn't masculine.

Know what else is not masculine? Starving to death because you're unable to track, kill, clean, and cook dinner. Better hope life stays easy if you don't know how to cook for yourself.
Yup.
The kind of people who categorize and rank the relative masculinity of various pursuits are themselves, not Masculine. Masculine entails not actually giving a fig what anyone thinks

sonjak

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #96 on: May 31, 2016, 08:20:40 AM »
Agreed that it can be frustrating when people say something is purely based on luck rather than realizing that choices (often daily choices) are the main factor.  Like someone who commented upthread about weight being luck-caused, not work-related.

At my last job, several of my coworkers told me I was "lucky" I was thin because they hadn't seen me when I was heavier so they assumed I had always been thin or healthy weight and that I just happened to be born that way.  One of these coworkers ate chocolate muffins, cookies or similar treats EVERY SINGLE DAY.  My snacks consisted of fruit and nuts and I walked every day.  That isn't luck (good or bad), it's a lifestyle choice.

More recently a neighbor told me I was "lucky" because "you don't have kids or anyone else to worry about."  I used birth control and got a divorce.  Lucky me!

Well, to be fair, part of it can be due to luck, aka, genetics: my husband and I eat the same thing and he reliable eats twice what I do, and yet I gain weight by blinking and he still fits into the suit he wore for his prom. That said, genetics aren't destiny - eat healthy food (and the occasional treat), walk a lot, and control the drinking, and you'll be thinner than you would be otherwise.

But, yeah, I get your point - it's not 'luck', it's 'reasonable circumstances COMBINED WITH EFFORT'. The reasonable circumstances are important (just like with finances...) but they are NOT the reason/excuse/whatever BS people are telling themselves to avoid facing the logical circumstances for their lack of effort.

Yes! This exactly: it's not 'luck', it's 'reasonable circumstances COMBINED WITH EFFORT'

MgoSam

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2016, 08:21:43 AM »
More recently a neighbor told me I was "lucky" because "you don't have kids or anyone else to worry about."  I used birth control and got a divorce.  Lucky me!

And I'm guessing that you not having children gets you criticized by people around you. The childfree people I know certainly do.

Vertical Mode

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #98 on: May 31, 2016, 08:52:41 AM »
Preach! I just want to tear my hair out when people harp on me for not getting the latest gadget/laptop/tv or blowing cash on cocktails, but then at the same time laugh when I mention early retirement, wishing me good luck in cheating the system, talking to me like I'm some delusional nutcase. It's not a system, you numbskulls, it's math! Guess what, the number of cocktails you drink can actually be translated directly to days, months, years you have to work extra before you get to do whatever you please.

That said, I do budget for eating out, cocktails and a good laptop. But in moderation. Because I really just want to enjoy these things exponentially over the years. Classic tortoise/hare race. First order of business when I retire: Monday morning 9 AM, having a giant pina colada while you are stuck in traffic to your miserable desk job.

(I am a sadistic tortoise)

1. Absolutely agree. Math, people!

2. Cheers! I plan on doing something very similar, although an Irish coffee would probably be more my speed at that hour.

3. 'Sadistic Tortoise' would make a great forum handle! :-)

mm1970

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Re: External perception vs actual financial state: A Rant
« Reply #99 on: May 31, 2016, 09:20:35 AM »
10/10 rants.  Can't wait for the next issue.


Poor, poor woman not to have access to google.

I'm so blessed that when I want or need to cook something new for the first time, I google 'how to cook x' and it would bring up how to cook x.

Funny family story:

My parents, sister, BIL, and youngest brother are visiting my older brother out of state.  My youngest brother (who's about 23 years old at this point) is notorious for sleeping in until around 2pm whenever the family hangs out over vacations.  Since they have a schedule to keep however, he's up and about so they tell him to make some scrambled eggs for everyone for breakfast.  "Umm, okay."  A few minutes later, they look over and notice he's just cracking eggs into a pan and kinda moving them around.

Sister: What are you doing?
Brother: Making scrambled eggs.
Sister: What? No you're not. You're supposed to beat the eggs, add some milk and seasoning, not just push raw eggs in a hot pan.
Brother: Well I didn't know that.
Sister: Fair enough, but when you realized you didn't know how to make scrambled eggs you didn't think to just ask one of us here or even Google a simple recipe?
Brother: ...

He's getting better but we still rib him for this kind of stuff all the time.
Family:
I make scrambled eggs like Brother, because I'm lazy!  (hubby does it the "correct" way). Sorry not sorry!