Author Topic: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...  (Read 20565 times)

Midwest

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2016, 11:43:28 AM »


I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

More important than their ability to make a living is whether some conflicted advice is better than no advice.  I don't believe Edward Jones is any worse or better than many of the other firms out their.  Frankly the fact they are willing to work with clients that aren't worth six figures is of some value.

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2016, 11:48:53 AM »


I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

More important than their ability to make a living is whether some conflicted advice is better than no advice.  I don't believe Edward Jones is any worse or better than many of the other firms out their.  Frankly the fact they are willing to work with clients that aren't worth six figures is of some value.

Apparently if you aren't worth six figures the advice from this forum is you are better off investing in CDs or finding that unicorn that operates as only a fee only advisor.

It's not possible that a fee only advisor that also generates income by charging a % of their AUM could give you advice to suggest you should invest with them. NOPE not at all.

NESailor

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2016, 11:51:16 AM »


I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

More important than their ability to make a living is whether some conflicted advice is better than no advice.  I don't believe Edward Jones is any worse or better than many of the other firms out their.  Frankly the fact they are willing to work with clients that aren't worth six figures is of some value.

This keeps popping up over and over again as an argument.  Unfortunately, there is a BIG difference between "working with" and "taking advantage of"...and that difference is often played out in practice.   You may have an advisor who's trying to help.  But if the fee structure and legal framework is set up such that it literally ENCOURAGES "taking advantage of", your FA will make money off of giving you poopy advice.  Yes, a high-load mutual fund may be better than the mattress.  But that's like saying getting punched in the face is better than getting kicked in the nuts.

There is definitely a cost to being stupid about money but it shouldn't be exploited.  My 0.02.

Midwest

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2016, 12:00:57 PM »


I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

More important than their ability to make a living is whether some conflicted advice is better than no advice.  I don't believe Edward Jones is any worse or better than many of the other firms out their.  Frankly the fact they are willing to work with clients that aren't worth six figures is of some value.

Apparently if you aren't worth six figures the advice from this forum is you are better off investing in CDs or finding that unicorn that operates as only a fee only advisor.

It's not possible that a fee only advisor that also generates income by charging a % of their AUM could give you advice to suggest you should invest with them. NOPE not at all.

The % advisors I know have a minimum and declining fees as you net worth goes up.

Most of my money is with Fidelity.  They don't meet with me and they are cheap.  If you need a person, I'm not sure Fidelity is the best bet. 

samustache

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2016, 12:21:19 PM »


Even after EJ's fees an EJ adviser could still do good for their client. The adviser could put them in the funds and leave them there and they'd come out ahead. I'll even grant you the advice they'd receive is a good deal for people without a lot of money - IF they have an adviser that does this.

The problem is that EJ adviser incentives do not align with buy and hold a low fee fund; that adviser is likely out of business if they did. They get paid more the more they move the customer around to new funds. It's all the switching that unnecessarily eats into returns, and I think the evidence points to this behavior being pervasive. On net the fiduciary rule is probably better, but hardly perfect.

There is a problem with the new fiduciary rule: there's a vacuum in fooling people without a lot of assets into thinking they aren't paying for advice.

I agree. This is essentially the  point I was making. I guess I'd need evidence that proves that churning clients through funds to generate commission is pervasive. I know it certainly happens, but I'd need to see evidence that it is actually the norm. If it's the norm I say shame on EJ corporate as that would be insanely easy to track.


Quote
That's ridiculous.  There are plenty of fee only advisers.    And if you eliminate the bottom feeders like EJ, there would be even more room in the market for them.

I am sure there are advisors that offer fee only as an option, I find it very hard to believe there are a ton of advisors making a living by just charging hourly rates for advice.

From what I have seen most of the advisors that offer fee only advice also offer services where they invest the money for you and take a % of AUM. In order for a fee only advisor that charges $250 hourly to generate $50k in revenue they would need to have 200 appointments throughout the year. If you only need to meet with your FA once a year for an hour, that is 200 clients they would need, 400 clients if they are interested in actually making a good  living.

I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

This seems a little strawman-y. Front load is not now illegal. In a perfect world, only the FAs who did tons of fund hopping as a business model go under.

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2016, 12:40:25 PM »


Even after EJ's fees an EJ adviser could still do good for their client. The adviser could put them in the funds and leave them there and they'd come out ahead. I'll even grant you the advice they'd receive is a good deal for people without a lot of money - IF they have an adviser that does this.

The problem is that EJ adviser incentives do not align with buy and hold a low fee fund; that adviser is likely out of business if they did. They get paid more the more they move the customer around to new funds. It's all the switching that unnecessarily eats into returns, and I think the evidence points to this behavior being pervasive. On net the fiduciary rule is probably better, but hardly perfect.

There is a problem with the new fiduciary rule: there's a vacuum in fooling people without a lot of assets into thinking they aren't paying for advice.

I agree. This is essentially the  point I was making. I guess I'd need evidence that proves that churning clients through funds to generate commission is pervasive. I know it certainly happens, but I'd need to see evidence that it is actually the norm. If it's the norm I say shame on EJ corporate as that would be insanely easy to track.


Quote
That's ridiculous.  There are plenty of fee only advisers.    And if you eliminate the bottom feeders like EJ, there would be even more room in the market for them.

I am sure there are advisors that offer fee only as an option, I find it very hard to believe there are a ton of advisors making a living by just charging hourly rates for advice.

From what I have seen most of the advisors that offer fee only advice also offer services where they invest the money for you and take a % of AUM. In order for a fee only advisor that charges $250 hourly to generate $50k in revenue they would need to have 200 appointments throughout the year. If you only need to meet with your FA once a year for an hour, that is 200 clients they would need, 400 clients if they are interested in actually making a good  living.

I did a quick google search in my area and found a website titled financial-advisors.credio.com. It looks like you can search it for FAs in your area. Not one of them is listed as strictly fee only. All of the one's that list fee only as an option also list percentage of assets as a "type of fee".

So if we move to where we make it illegal to be anything but a fee only FA (the only way that isn't insanely EVIL) how many FAs would maintain that as their career? It seems like you would either need to charge an insane hourly rate, have a ton of clients, sell your clients on coming to check in with you more, or do it part time.

This seems a little strawman-y. Front load is not now illegal. In a perfect world, only the FAs who did tons of fund hopping as a business model go under.

I don't think you would find one person that would argue with you on that point. If you are fund hopping to generate business that is clearly not in the best interest of the client and that model should go under. But why does everyone seem to think that is all every EJ advisor does? They generate their income through commissions. Another way they could make money is by providing evidence to suggest that investing more with them per month will lead to more income in retirement. In that way they generate commissions as clients put money into their IRAs/brokerages each month. I guess I just refuse to believe that because an FA could screw people over they automatically will. That's like saying that everyone would steal a million dollars from the bank if they knew they wouldn't get caught.

There's a similar conflict of interest when you go visit a dentist. They could tell you you have cavities, drill and fill. Do we assume that because this conflict exists all dentists exploit it?

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2016, 12:55:56 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2016, 01:00:24 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2016, 01:02:26 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it. 

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2016, 01:06:24 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it.

Same with my dividend investments.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2016, 01:08:28 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it.

Same with my dividend investments.

when statistically it slows your path to FIRE i dont know that you can say that.  this arguement about dividend funds vs index funds has been posed here many times no reason to rehash it but the dividend funds havent stood up to the math in the arguement.

but maybe your just the king of picking dividend funds and better than everyone else like i am at Daily Fantasy Nascar.  if thats the case go for it

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2016, 01:09:55 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it.

Same with my dividend investments.

when statistically it slows your path to FIRE i dont know that you can say that.  this arguement about dividend funds vs index funds has been posed here many times no reason to rehash it but the dividend funds havent stood up to the math in the arguement.

I don't own a dividend fund but that's good to know. I'm sure gambling will expedite your path to FI. Seems like we all have our vices don't we :)

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2016, 01:11:30 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it.

Same with my dividend investments.

when statistically it slows your path to FIRE i dont know that you can say that.  this arguement about dividend funds vs index funds has been posed here many times no reason to rehash it but the dividend funds havent stood up to the math in the arguement.

I don't own a dividend fund but that's good to know. I'm sure gambling will expedite your path to FI. Seems like we all have our vices don't we :)

nice job chopping out part of my statement.  but its been proven that the top 1% in daily fantasy has a statistical advantage over the other 99% and we just print money over there so its not really gambling at this point. its just statistical analysis.

mizzourah2006

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2016, 01:15:05 PM »
we're arguing with a dividend investor i think thats nuff said.

We're arguing with a guy that plans to reach FI by gambling. Nuff said.

supplemental income ... not how i plan to get there it just expedites it.

Same with my dividend investments.

when statistically it slows your path to FIRE i dont know that you can say that.  this arguement about dividend funds vs index funds has been posed here many times no reason to rehash it but the dividend funds havent stood up to the math in the arguement.

I don't own a dividend fund but that's good to know. I'm sure gambling will expedite your path to FI. Seems like we all have our vices don't we :)

nice job chopping out part of my statement.  but its been proven that the top 1% in daily fantasy has a statistical advantage over the other 99% and we just print money over there so its not really gambling at this point. its just statistical analysis.

Well good luck then. I'm surprised you're not FIRE already. If it's that easy for you just start laying it all on the line. Why wait to become FIRE when you could gamble everything you own and retire tomorrow? Seems like if it was that statistically probable you'd be done by now.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2016, 04:51:50 PM »
I'm done with the dick measuring contest but there isn't enough money in NASCAR compared to other fantasy sports so it's a slow gain. We get a 75% roi betting everything we can. 

But still not the point of this thread

Telecaster

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2016, 10:47:15 AM »

I am sure there are advisors that offer fee only as an option, I find it very hard to believe there are a ton of advisors making a living by just charging hourly rates for advice.

From what I have seen most of the advisors that offer fee only advice also offer services where they invest the money for you and take a % of AUM. In order for a fee only advisor that charges $250 hourly to generate $50k in revenue they would need to have 200 appointments throughout the year. If you only need to meet with your FA once a year for an hour, that is 200 clients they would need, 400 clients if they are interested in actually making a good  living.

Boo frickin' hoo.   I see my CPA once every few years.  Somehow he manages to stay in business.  And not only that I've got to make an appointment.  I've hired exactly one attorney on one occasion.  Somehow there are plenty of attorneys out there and they seem to drive nice cars.   I fail to see how financial advisors can't stay in business unless they can also screw people out of their money. 

I'm a consultant, I have clients, I get paid by the hour.  If a financial advisor's work is so worthless they can't survive by getting paid for what they actually do--that says it all. 




MgoSam

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2016, 10:58:23 AM »
Somehow there are plenty of attorneys out there and they seem to drive nice cars.   I fail to see how financial advisors can't stay in business unless they can also screw people out of their money. 

Most everything that involves money isn't about survival, but rather about getting more. It's human nature.

I import a lot of items from China and wages are going up for factory workers, it may not seem like a lot but a 5% increase in wages, means that product costs go up. This wage increase is LONG OVERDUE, but as a businessman that faces the higher costs and a tight market (so it's tough for me to raise my prices much), I feel a little squeezed. As a result, most people in my position would begrudge the wage increase because it directly affects them.

The same goes for financial planners, while the firms and the people will survive, they will need to work on smaller margins with the new rules. They don't want to work on smaller margins, so they will fight any rule changes as hard as they can.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #67 on: June 20, 2016, 11:01:35 AM »
Somehow there are plenty of attorneys out there and they seem to drive nice cars.   I fail to see how financial advisors can't stay in business unless they can also screw people out of their money. 

Most everything that involves money isn't about survival, but rather about getting more. It's human nature.

I import a lot of items from China and wages are going up for factory workers, it may not seem like a lot but a 5% increase in wages, means that product costs go up. This wage increase is LONG OVERDUE, but as a businessman that faces the higher costs and a tight market (so it's tough for me to raise my prices much), I feel a little squeezed. As a result, most people in my position would begrudge the wage increase because it directly affects them.

The same goes for financial planners, while the firms and the people will survive, they will need to work on smaller margins with the new rules. They don't want to work on smaller margins, so they will fight any rule changes as hard as they can.

when you're dealing with people's retirement savings its in the best interest of all tax payers in the country that people arent sharking that money away.  It will decrease the burden they are on society when they can no longer work.

MgoSam

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2016, 11:14:23 AM »
Somehow there are plenty of attorneys out there and they seem to drive nice cars.   I fail to see how financial advisors can't stay in business unless they can also screw people out of their money. 

Most everything that involves money isn't about survival, but rather about getting more. It's human nature.

I import a lot of items from China and wages are going up for factory workers, it may not seem like a lot but a 5% increase in wages, means that product costs go up. This wage increase is LONG OVERDUE, but as a businessman that faces the higher costs and a tight market (so it's tough for me to raise my prices much), I feel a little squeezed. As a result, most people in my position would begrudge the wage increase because it directly affects them.

The same goes for financial planners, while the firms and the people will survive, they will need to work on smaller margins with the new rules. They don't want to work on smaller margins, so they will fight any rule changes as hard as they can.

when you're dealing with people's retirement savings its in the best interest of all tax payers in the country that people arent sharking that money away.  It will decrease the burden they are on society when they can no longer work.

I completely agree with you. Right now the system is set up way in favor of financial service firms at the expense of ordinary people and this should change. It's too easy for these vultures to prey on people that aren't nearly as informed.

samustache

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2016, 12:44:52 PM »
There's a similar conflict of interest when you go visit a dentist. They could tell you you have cavities, drill and fill. Do we assume that because this conflict exists all dentists exploit it?

If you regulated that blatantly unnecessary cavity filling could get your license revoked, would everyone be worried that it completely threatens dentist's livelihood? Cause that, to me, is the analogy with EJ. The regulation makes it harder for bad behavior, it does not explicitly regulate away your example of a good EJ advisor.

*edit for clarity
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 01:24:53 PM by samustache »

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #70 on: June 20, 2016, 01:10:02 PM »
There's a similar conflict of interest when you go visit a dentist. They could tell you you have cavities, drill and fill. Do we assume that because this conflict exists all dentists exploit it?

If you regulated that blatant and unnecessary cavity filling could get your license revoked, would everyone be worried that it completely threatens dentist's livelihood? Cause that, to me, is the analogy with EJ. The regulation makes it harder for bad behavior, it does not explicitly regulate away your example of a good EJ advisor.

yeah correct this is called malpractice.  and you only have to have so many malpractice claims before the malpractice insurers will stop insuring you.  regulation is what this industry needs ... i also really dont get what exactly your dog in this arguement is ... are you against the regulation of the financial industry.  if so explicitly why are you... if you're not against the regulation of an obviously corrupt industry... is your arguement just that "there are some good guys out there" ... if thats the case its the exception not the norm.  and if people wanted to be the exception they would just label themselves a fiduciary and market themselves this way...

or is your arguement just that people should be smarter or have their money taken by someone who is smarter than they are? 

i mean we as tax payers are footing part of this bill when people are corruptly stealing others money, under the guise of financial advice. so while often my stance is be smarter or be left behind in this case it affects me in a larger way no matter how smart i personally am so i want it regulated.  even my father - a very smart man(dentist) didnt know that his financial advisor wasnt acting in his best interest.  i think he is aware now but he's in an annuity .
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 01:12:52 PM by boarder42 »

frugalnacho

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #71 on: June 20, 2016, 01:10:27 PM »
There's a similar conflict of interest when you go visit a dentist. They could tell you you have cavities, drill and fill. Do we assume that because this conflict exists all dentists exploit it?

If you regulated that blatant and unnecessary cavity filling could get your license revoked, would everyone be worried that it completely threatens dentist's livelihood? Cause that, to me, is the analogy with EJ. The regulation makes it harder for bad behavior, it does not explicitly regulate away your example of a good EJ advisor.

Yea, pretty sure dentists are specifically forbidden from doing this.   Very similar logic as to why EJ shouldn't be allowed to do the same thing to your retirement account.

MgoSam

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #72 on: June 20, 2016, 06:57:41 PM »
I wonder if anyone on this site is a financial planner? A remote friend of mine used to be one and I think he's fairly mustachian. When I asked for his advice on my finances and laid out where I had invested him his advice was and I quote, "Just keep doing what you're doing." My funds were all in index funds. His only advice was to invest in my Roth, which for some reason I didn't think I should do so (since somewhat remedied....can't get back the lost time).

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2016, 08:24:26 AM »
Somehow there are plenty of attorneys out there and they seem to drive nice cars.   I fail to see how financial advisors can't stay in business unless they can also screw people out of their money. 

Most everything that involves money isn't about survival, but rather about getting more. It's human nature.

I import a lot of items from China and wages are going up for factory workers, it may not seem like a lot but a 5% increase in wages, means that product costs go up. This wage increase is LONG OVERDUE, but as a businessman that faces the higher costs and a tight market (so it's tough for me to raise my prices much), I feel a little squeezed. As a result, most people in my position would begrudge the wage increase because it directly affects them.

The same goes for financial planners, while the firms and the people will survive, they will need to work on smaller margins with the new rules. They don't want to work on smaller margins, so they will fight any rule changes as hard as they can.

when you're dealing with people's retirement savings its in the best interest of all tax payers in the country that people arent sharking that money away.  It will decrease the burden they are on society when they can no longer work.

Besides which, having a system that's consistently trustworthy does lead to people using that system and not, say, hiding their money in coffee cans and burying it in the backyard until the value of some of the coins goes up due to rarity or age.

Dicey

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2016, 03:00:04 PM »
l-e-e-c-h

noun
2. a person who extorts profit from or sponges on others.

verb
1. habitually exploit or rely on.

l-e-a-c-h

verb
(with reference to a soluble chemical or mineral) drain away from soil, ash, or similar material by the action of percolating liquid, especially rainwater.


Classical_Liberal

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2016, 05:02:17 PM »
correct they should be FEE ONLY. anything else is not in their clients best interest financially.  i should be able to go online and see what fees you will charge me per hour not percentage of a dollar amount.  and pay you to help me organize my financial life in an optimal way.  this is worth around 200 an hour IMO , i;d do it for 100

I'll do it for $50/hr... what can I say, I enjoy it and well... capitalism baby.

I completely agree with you. Right now the system is set up way in favor of financial service firms at the expense of ordinary people and this should change. It's too easy for these vultures to prey on people that aren't nearly as informed.

Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2016, 05:26:31 PM »
l-e-e-c-h

noun
2. a person who extorts profit from or sponges on others.

verb
1. habitually exploit or rely on.

l-e-a-c-h

verb
(with reference to a soluble chemical or mineral) drain away from soil, ash, or similar material by the action of percolating liquid, especially rainwater.

Thanks for contributing nothing since everyone understood prior to the spelling lesson.  Purpose of language to convey a thought or idea. This is y u can use shorter text and people still understand.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 05:28:25 PM by boarder42 »

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2016, 05:30:44 PM »
correct they should be FEE ONLY. anything else is not in their clients best interest financially.  i should be able to go online and see what fees you will charge me per hour not percentage of a dollar amount.  and pay you to help me organize my financial life in an optimal way.  this is worth around 200 an hour IMO , i;d do it for 100

I'll do it for $50/hr... what can I say, I enjoy it and well... capitalism baby.

I completely agree with you. Right now the system is set up way in favor of financial service firms at the expense of ordinary people and this should change. It's too easy for these vultures to prey on people that aren't nearly as informed.

Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.

Yeah bc we all know teaching people something makes them efficient enough to execute it. May as well teach people brain surgery and the full gammit of everything one can need to pay for in life so they won't need to.  I agree it should be taught but there are far too many people who don't grasp math for that to be the solution.

Rural

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2016, 06:04:39 PM »
l-e-e-c-h

noun
2. a person who extorts profit from or sponges on others.

verb
1. habitually exploit or rely on.

l-e-a-c-h

verb
(with reference to a soluble chemical or mineral) drain away from soil, ash, or similar material by the action of percolating liquid, especially rainwater.

Thanks for contributing nothing since everyone understood prior to the spelling lesson.  Purpose of language to convey a thought or idea. This is y u can use shorter text and people still understand.


Yes, but if you can use words correctly, you significantly reduce the risk of being taken for a fool if your message isn't foolish.

Telecaster

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2016, 05:51:07 AM »


Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.

Think about that statement for a minute.  How exactly do you require finance?   The federal government can't do it.  However do you get every state down to the district level to implement your plan?  Who decides what classes to cut out in order to include finance?  Do we cut out chemistry?  computer science?  band?   Who develops and approves the curriculum?  What requirements do the teachers need?  How do you find these people?  Which teachers do you lay off so you can hire the new finance teachers?  How do you ensure the lessons are effective when the vast majority of students won't need an FA until years?  Oh, whose taxes do you raise in order to implement your plan?  Yours or mine? 

Or we could simply pass a rule that says FAs have to work in the best interests of their clients, which is already an obligation of other similar professional fields, like doctors and lawyers.   Somehow I doubt the economy will be destroyed if FAs can't screw over their clients. 




boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2016, 06:03:17 AM »
l-e-e-c-h

noun
2. a person who extorts profit from or sponges on others.

verb
1. habitually exploit or rely on.

l-e-a-c-h

verb
(with reference to a soluble chemical or mineral) drain away from soil, ash, or similar material by the action of percolating liquid, especially rainwater.

Thanks for contributing nothing since everyone understood prior to the spelling lesson.  Purpose of language to convey a thought or idea. This is y u can use shorter text and people still understand.


Yes, but if you can use words correctly, you significantly reduce the risk of being taken for a fool if your message isn't foolish.

pretty sure no one thinks this message is foolish and made it all the way to the bottom of the second page b4 tha gramer nasis showded up

MgoSam

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2016, 11:12:13 AM »


Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.

Think about that statement for a minute.  How exactly do you require finance?   The federal government can't do it.  However do you get every state down to the district level to implement your plan?  Who decides what classes to cut out in order to include finance?  Do we cut out chemistry?  computer science?  band?   Who develops and approves the curriculum?  What requirements do the teachers need?  How do you find these people?  Which teachers do you lay off so you can hire the new finance teachers?  How do you ensure the lessons are effective when the vast majority of students won't need an FA until years?  Oh, whose taxes do you raise in order to implement your plan?  Yours or mine? 

Or we could simply pass a rule that says FAs have to work in the best interests of their clients, which is already an obligation of other similar professional fields, like doctors and lawyers.   Somehow I doubt the economy will be destroyed if FAs can't screw over their clients.

+1


Rural

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2016, 11:14:00 AM »
l-e-e-c-h

noun
2. a person who extorts profit from or sponges on others.

verb
1. habitually exploit or rely on.

l-e-a-c-h

verb
(with reference to a soluble chemical or mineral) drain away from soil, ash, or similar material by the action of percolating liquid, especially rainwater.

Thanks for contributing nothing since everyone understood prior to the spelling lesson.  Purpose of language to convey a thought or idea. This is y u can use shorter text and people still understand.


Yes, but if you can use words correctly, you significantly reduce the risk of being taken for a fool if your message isn't foolish.

pretty sure no one thinks this message is foolish and made it all the way to the bottom of the second page b4 tha gramer nasis showded up


 I thought less of your post once I realized you couldn't spell leech. I got over it, because I've read other posts of yours and have figured out independently that you are intelligent. But if that had been the first thing of yours I'd read? I probably would've skipped over your posts from there on.

Travis

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2016, 11:32:45 AM »


Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.
...
Or we could simply pass a rule that says FAs have to work in the best interests of their clients, which is already an obligation of other similar professional fields, like doctors and lawyers.   Somehow I doubt the economy will be destroyed if FAs can't screw over their clients.

Like any other industry, this new rule should force them to find a way to stay competitive and profitable or go bust.  The industry could probably use some culling of the herd.  If the price of quality reliable service is fewer people offering it, that's probably a reasonable trade off.  I don't know about every financial services firm, but looking at the career section of EJ's website, it pretty much states to have a long term career with them your purpose in life needs to be bringing in new clients and generating fees from them.  Apparently they've had a ton of turn over in staff the last few years because the advisers get burned out or have ethical problems with the company.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2016, 02:44:20 PM »


Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.
...
Or we could simply pass a rule that says FAs have to work in the best interests of their clients, which is already an obligation of other similar professional fields, like doctors and lawyers.   Somehow I doubt the economy will be destroyed if FAs can't screw over their clients.

Like any other industry, this new rule should force them to find a way to stay competitive and profitable or go bust.  The industry could probably use some culling of the herd.  If the price of quality reliable service is fewer people offering it, that's probably a reasonable trade off.  I don't know about every financial services firm, but looking at the career section of EJ's website, it pretty much states to have a long term career with them your purpose in life needs to be bringing in new clients and generating fees from them.  Apparently they've had a ton of turn over in staff the last few years because the advisers get burned out or have ethical problems with the company.

yeah if you go back to the first page there is an article with comments from an up and comer at EJ who was planning on leaving but is now sticking it out b/c of this new law

Travis

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #85 on: June 22, 2016, 07:15:02 PM »


Why make more regulation when you can educate instead.  Require finance 101 in HS and GED courses.  Give a gal a fish and the bureaucracy/distribution/regulatory costs makes the fish 2X more expensive.  Teach her to fish and she generates GDP, more fish for everyone.
...
Or we could simply pass a rule that says FAs have to work in the best interests of their clients, which is already an obligation of other similar professional fields, like doctors and lawyers.   Somehow I doubt the economy will be destroyed if FAs can't screw over their clients.

Like any other industry, this new rule should force them to find a way to stay competitive and profitable or go bust.  The industry could probably use some culling of the herd.  If the price of quality reliable service is fewer people offering it, that's probably a reasonable trade off.  I don't know about every financial services firm, but looking at the career section of EJ's website, it pretty much states to have a long term career with them your purpose in life needs to be bringing in new clients and generating fees from them.  Apparently they've had a ton of turn over in staff the last few years because the advisers get burned out or have ethical problems with the company.

yeah if you go back to the first page there is an article with comments from an up and comer at EJ who was planning on leaving but is now sticking it out b/c of this new law

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/edward-jones-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-financial-services-industry-5554

This is what I was referring to. It's from a couple years ago.

justajane

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2016, 07:48:19 PM »
I live in St. Louis and get these guys going door-to-door a couple of times a year. Usually I do a good job of dodging them entirely, but once in a while, I accidentally answer the door. Usually the word "Vanguard" shuts them up pretty quickly.

Early on when I was more naive, I actually gave one of an Edwards Jones guy my number. Newly married, my husband and I didn't have debt but we also didn't have money either. Anyway, a few weeks later he called me on the phone. "Hey, justajane, I got this great blah-blah-blah, and if you give me 10K, I can blah-blah-blah." It's so long ago I can't remember what he promised, but I just laughed and told him I'd "think about it."

From my vantage point, anyone who is that aggressive is likely a snake oil salesman. If they were worth their salt, they wouldn't need to go door-to-door dressed in their suits in the crippling heat and terrible cold like that.

Miss Piggy

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2016, 07:16:06 AM »
I live in St. Louis and get these guys going door-to-door a couple of times a year.

Me too. I'm shocked they still do the door-to-door thing. Such a stupid, annoying way to meet people.

Haven't seen one in a year since we put up a "No soliciting" sign.

justajane

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2016, 07:37:20 AM »
I live in St. Louis and get these guys going door-to-door a couple of times a year.

Me too. I'm shocked they still do the door-to-door thing. Such a stupid, annoying way to meet people.

Haven't seen one in a year since we put up a "No soliciting" sign.

We have a "no solicitors" sign but some of them are still ballsy enough to knock anyway. Or I'm sitting on the porch and they come up to talk to me.

OkieStache

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2016, 01:28:54 PM »
I'll just drop this here:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/baldwin/2016/06/15/protect-yourself-from-elderscammers/#3393cd5942e8

In this article, Edward Jones representative was the scammer.  In another instance Vanguard, alerted to potential scam, refused to participate, and alerted authorities.

justajane

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2016, 01:51:56 PM »
It was pouring down rain last Thursday and I was coming home with a sleeping toddler in the back seat. I saw the Edward Jones guy on my next door neighbor's porch. With my kid still in the car, I briefly ran into my house.

The guy yelled across, "HEY, CAN I TALK TO YOU???" through the pouring ran.
"NO, IT'S A REALLY TERRIBLE TIME," I said.
"WELL, WHEN IS A GOOD TIME?"

I ignored him and ran in. Thirty seconds later, I ran back out. Still pouring down rain, I saw him on the other neighbor's porch on the other side of me. I didn't make eye contact as I went back to the car.

"HAVE A GREAT DAY!" he yelled to a mom who clearly has a sleeping child in her arms she's trying to get down for a nap, after I had already told him it was a bad time.

Jackass.

FINate

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2016, 02:02:51 PM »
We have a "no solicitors" sign but some of them are still ballsy enough to knock anyway. Or I'm sitting on the porch and they come up to talk to me.

I just point to the sign and shut the door - refuse to waste time dealing with stupid.

markbike528CBX

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2016, 02:56:20 PM »
We have a "no solicitors" sign but some of them are still ballsy enough to knock anyway. Or I'm sitting on the porch and they come up to talk to me.

I just point to the sign and shut the door - refuse to waste time dealing with stupid.
No real problem with this, but we're prepared with a list for most door to door solicitation / religion options.   The list is posted on the back of the front door.

Reynold

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #93 on: July 06, 2016, 11:23:10 AM »

If you regulated that blatant and unnecessary cavity filling could get your license revoked, would everyone be worried that it completely threatens dentist's livelihood? Cause that, to me, is the analogy with EJ. The regulation makes it harder for bad behavior, it does not explicitly regulate away your example of a good EJ advisor.

Yea, pretty sure dentists are specifically forbidden from doing this.   Very similar logic as to why EJ shouldn't be allowed to do the same thing to your retirement account.

I wish; when we moved to a new state, the dentist my wife first saw, at the recommendation of several co-workers, said she needed to have half a dozen old fillings replaced, which puzzled us a bit, since the dentist we'd been seeing previously every 6 months hadn't seen a problem.  We let him do one, he cracked a nearby tooth which then needed a root canal and crown, and we changed dentists to somebody else who thought the old fillings were fine. 

Which is why I don't think the "regulated" fields of doctors and lawyers are any better than financial advisers, we've had to double check the work of people in both professions, and found mistakes with multiple people in both professions.  Go ahead and regulate financial advisers, it will be a boon for the lawsuit industry, which will be reflected in the fees advisers will have to charge, just as it is for doctors, but you aren't likely to improve the average level of competency or suitability of investments, in my opinion.  The only time doctors and lawyers get their work reviewed is when there are major malpractice issues, don't think that investment advisers will be under any more scrutiny.

boarder42

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Re: The Blood(money) sucking Leaches of Edward Jones ...
« Reply #94 on: July 06, 2016, 12:40:02 PM »

If you regulated that blatant and unnecessary cavity filling could get your license revoked, would everyone be worried that it completely threatens dentist's livelihood? Cause that, to me, is the analogy with EJ. The regulation makes it harder for bad behavior, it does not explicitly regulate away your example of a good EJ advisor.

Yea, pretty sure dentists are specifically forbidden from doing this.   Very similar logic as to why EJ shouldn't be allowed to do the same thing to your retirement account.

I wish; when we moved to a new state, the dentist my wife first saw, at the recommendation of several co-workers, said she needed to have half a dozen old fillings replaced, which puzzled us a bit, since the dentist we'd been seeing previously every 6 months hadn't seen a problem.  We let him do one, he cracked a nearby tooth which then needed a root canal and crown, and we changed dentists to somebody else who thought the old fillings were fine. 

Which is why I don't think the "regulated" fields of doctors and lawyers are any better than financial advisers, we've had to double check the work of people in both professions, and found mistakes with multiple people in both professions.  Go ahead and regulate financial advisers, it will be a boon for the lawsuit industry, which will be reflected in the fees advisers will have to charge, just as it is for doctors, but you aren't likely to improve the average level of competency or suitability of investments, in my opinion.  The only time doctors and lawyers get their work reviewed is when there are major malpractice issues, don't think that investment advisers will be under any more scrutiny.

sounds like you should have filed a mal practice suit against your dentist.  its not about educating everyone to become competent enough to manage all their money that is an entirely different arguement.  the investment advisors are going to have to report what fees they are collecting to the SEC it can be a much much more black and white issue than in the doctor world.