Author Topic: Eating the Seed Corn  (Read 3997 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Eating the Seed Corn
« on: December 14, 2016, 02:38:38 PM »
In the midst of what is supposed to have been the most successful US economy in history, the richer states and regions are doing extremely well, but the poorest states are faring worse every year.

http://www.kob.com/new-mexico-news/cash-strapped-state-cancels-financial-literacy-lessons/4344430/?cat=500

CatamaranSailor

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 04:02:00 PM »
I lived in New Mexico. This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the state that allowed a nuclear weapon to be detonated underground in the 50's in order to test out "peaceful uses of nuclear weapons for natural gas production."

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 04:23:18 PM »
I lived in New Mexico. This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the state that allowed a nuclear weapon to be detonated underground in the 50's in order to test out "peaceful uses of nuclear weapons for natural gas production."

Plowshares project, gotta love it. I'm astounded the oil industry isn't trying it as a fracking alternative. :) j/k

RetiredAt63

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 05:22:56 PM »
I lived in New Mexico. This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the state that allowed a nuclear weapon to be detonated underground in the 50's in order to test out "peaceful uses of nuclear weapons for natural gas production."

Plowshares project, gotta love it. I'm astounded the oil industry isn't trying it as a fracking alternative. :) j/k

SSHHHHHH

Syonyk

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 08:41:47 PM »
In the midst of what is supposed to have been the most successful US economy in history, the richer states and regions are doing extremely well, but the poorest states are faring worse every year.

"The Recovery will continue until morale improves."

And I see nothing wrong with the underground tests in the 50s.  That's a perfectly reasonable place to detonate a nuclear weapon for testing purposes.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2016, 09:59:16 AM »
Quote
State Treasurer Tim Eichenberg described the bitter irony of cutting short an effort to help young people make responsible decisions about savings and debt.

No kidding.

Just Joe

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 10:11:57 AM »
So why aren't they cutting football and basketball instead?

brute

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 10:33:07 AM »
Why aren't they cutting their free medical to people? My wife just wanted a quote on insurance there last year, and she was signed up for insurance against her will. She couldn't get rid of it for months even after we moved to a new state and she had full time work. It literally took 3 months to get them to cancel it, even with all the documentation and daily calls.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 11:50:50 AM »
Why aren't they cutting their free medical to people? My wife just wanted a quote on insurance there last year, and she was signed up for insurance against her will. She couldn't get rid of it for months even after we moved to a new state and she had full time work. It literally took 3 months to get them to cancel it, even with all the documentation and daily calls.

And yet, when my daughter and I finalized our adoption, they kicked my daughter (who has several chronic medical problems) off Medicaid effective that very day. So now I'm getting the bills for the injuries and illnesses she developed during her years in the system. State policy is supposed to be that Medicaid support continues for older adoptees until they turn 18, but the state lied. (Anyone surprised?)

Renegade23

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 12:06:43 PM »
In the midst of what is supposed to have been the most successful US economy in history, the richer states and regions are doing extremely well, but the poorest states are faring worse every year.

http://www.kob.com/new-mexico-news/cash-strapped-state-cancels-financial-literacy-lessons/4344430/?cat=500

If it makes you feel better, financial literacy courses for high school students are shown to have just about zero impact after one year. Apparently high school students don't listen to strangers who are lecturing them in classrooms, who knew?

I'm a big supporter of financial literacy, but I also love data. The data shows these kinds of efforts aren't effective. I see nothing wrong with cutting them, it might even be mustachian. (As an example of why this doesn't work, remember the last time you talked to the average person about early retirement? Remember that moment when their eyes glazed over? If you are thinking of the second they realized what you were talking about you are remembering it accurately.)

JetBlast

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 12:33:26 PM »
New Mexico has been having a very hard time getting in gear during this economic recovery as its economy has been geared wrong for this period. Besides the collapse in oil and gas prices, NM has for a long time been reliant on federal government spending for jobs, as the state is a heavily involved in national defense. Sequestration and continued belt tightening in Washington have kept NM in neutral.

Some people seem to finally be seeing the importance of fostering a culture of entrepreneurship, but it's still a very different business culture in NM versus places like Seattle, Denver, the Bay Area, etc...
I lived in New Mexico. This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the state that allowed a nuclear weapon to be detonated underground in the 50's in order to test out "peaceful uses of nuclear weapons for natural gas production."

At least we're better than our neighbors to the north in Colorado. They had four.

brute

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2016, 12:42:31 PM »
Why aren't they cutting their free medical to people? My wife just wanted a quote on insurance there last year, and she was signed up for insurance against her will. She couldn't get rid of it for months even after we moved to a new state and she had full time work. It literally took 3 months to get them to cancel it, even with all the documentation and daily calls.

And yet, when my daughter and I finalized our adoption, they kicked my daughter (who has several chronic medical problems) off Medicaid effective that very day. So now I'm getting the bills for the injuries and illnesses she developed during her years in the system. State policy is supposed to be that Medicaid support continues for older adoptees until they turn 18, but the state lied. (Anyone surprised?)

That sucks. I'm really sorry to hear that. You want it, you can't have it. You don't? Tough, you'll never get rid of it. Thanks New Mexico.


Just Joe

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2016, 12:57:43 PM »
If it makes you feel better, financial literacy courses for high school students are shown to have just about zero impact after one year. Apparently high school students don't listen to strangers who are lecturing them in classrooms, who knew?

I'm a big supporter of financial literacy, but I also love data. The data shows these kinds of efforts aren't effective. I see nothing wrong with cutting them, it might even be mustachian. (As an example of why this doesn't work, remember the last time you talked to the average person about early retirement? Remember that moment when their eyes glazed over? If you are thinking of the second they realized what you were talking about you are remembering it accurately.)

But is it HOW the information is being taught? Rote learning is a terrible way for alot of people to learn. Its useful in certain amounts. However to me financial literacy ought to be taught like shop class or home economics - here is a fictional $10K for each of you and over the course of the semester or year we are going to budget and spend this money. Your individual choices will cause your money supply to increase or decrease. Then at the end perhaps we'll look at stats for the class and compare them to broad brush stats for the nation.

Part of the time we'll be talking about how mortgages work. How college tuition works. How buying a car works. How savings works. Debt. investments, etc.

I had "Economics" way back when and some of the concepts that my teacher taught sticks with me today. The concepts rather than the vocabulary words.

Another teacher split us into teams and we played investment games one semester. Real data from the daily newspaper, fictional money. What I would have done differently was speed up time. Start out using data from 75 years ago and check in on the data every 5 or 10 years so everyone could see how the money compounds. Maybe throw in The Great Depression and WWII.

I would be suspicious of studies that say this is a low value subject to teach students until I knew where the data was coming from. Who is funding it? If it helped a portion of society reach adulthood without drowning in debt I'd be satisfied. Of course all those retailers of high cost items and low quality loans (title loans, 24 check cashing places) might disagree. 

Renegade23

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 01:26:37 PM »
If it makes you feel better, financial literacy courses for high school students are shown to have just about zero impact after one year. Apparently high school students don't listen to strangers who are lecturing them in classrooms, who knew?

I'm a big supporter of financial literacy, but I also love data. The data shows these kinds of efforts aren't effective. I see nothing wrong with cutting them, it might even be mustachian. (As an example of why this doesn't work, remember the last time you talked to the average person about early retirement? Remember that moment when their eyes glazed over? If you are thinking of the second they realized what you were talking about you are remembering it accurately.)

But is it HOW the information is being taught? Rote learning is a terrible way for alot of people to learn. Its useful in certain amounts. However to me financial literacy ought to be taught like shop class or home economics - here is a fictional $10K for each of you and over the course of the semester or year we are going to budget and spend this money. Your individual choices will cause your money supply to increase or decrease. Then at the end perhaps we'll look at stats for the class and compare them to broad brush stats for the nation.

Part of the time we'll be talking about how mortgages work. How college tuition works. How buying a car works. How savings works. Debt. investments, etc.

I had "Economics" way back when and some of the concepts that my teacher taught sticks with me today. The concepts rather than the vocabulary words.

Another teacher split us into teams and we played investment games one semester. Real data from the daily newspaper, fictional money. What I would have done differently was speed up time. Start out using data from 75 years ago and check in on the data every 5 or 10 years so everyone could see how the money compounds. Maybe throw in The Great Depression and WWII.

I would be suspicious of studies that say this is a low value subject to teach students until I knew where the data was coming from. Who is funding it? If it helped a portion of society reach adulthood without drowning in debt I'd be satisfied. Of course all those retailers of high cost items and low quality loans (title loans, 24 check cashing places) might disagree.

The way personal finance classes are taught isn't pro or anti-consumerism. It is just about interest rates, checking accounts loans etc. Basically stuff that will allow you to understand basic personal finance terms. It provides you with the ability to know that consumerism is bad, but it doesn't push that line of thought. So the lobbying group most opposed to it would probably be retail banks. Their bread and butter are the overdraft fees and the personal loans that are what these classes teach people to avoid.

MgoSam

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2016, 01:38:28 PM »
Why can't their chemistry teachers just cook up some meth to fund financial literacy classes?

Syonyk

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 04:44:49 PM »
At least we're better than our neighbors to the north in Colorado. They had four.

Huh?  I'm pretty sure New Mexico has had more than a few underground tests, in addition to all the above ground ones.

The Trinity site would be a good example there...

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 04:49:09 PM »
At least we're better than our neighbors to the north in Colorado. They had four.

Huh?  I'm pretty sure New Mexico has had more than a few underground tests, in addition to all the above ground ones.

The Trinity site would be a good example there...

The Trinity site was definitely above ground, and there are radioactive bits and pieces of what they call "Trinitite" here and there although some dunderheads still think it's a good idea to pick up radioactive stuff and take it home as a souvenir.

Syonyk

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 06:42:52 PM »
Ah, I though they bulldozed most of that under some time ago.

It's not particularly radioactive, though.

brute

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 06:57:20 PM »
Ah, I though they bulldozed most of that under some time ago.

It's not particularly radioactive, though.

When I was working at the labs(Sandia national), we wandered down there. Not a lot to see. They haven't even tried to keep the windows clean so you can see the ground that hasn't been picked clean. Just an old house and weird obelisk and a lot of sand.

White sands park though, pretty friggin cool.


Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Eating the Seed Corn
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2016, 12:28:53 AM »
In the midst of what is supposed to have been the most successful US economy in history, the richer states and regions are doing extremely well, but the poorest states are faring worse every year.

http://www.kob.com/new-mexico-news/cash-strapped-state-cancels-financial-literacy-lessons/4344430/?cat=500

If it makes you feel better, financial literacy courses for high school students are shown to have just about zero impact after one year. Apparently high school students don't listen to strangers who are lecturing them in classrooms, who knew?

I'm a big supporter of financial literacy, but I also love data. The data shows these kinds of efforts aren't effective. I see nothing wrong with cutting them, it might even be mustachian. (As an example of why this doesn't work, remember the last time you talked to the average person about early retirement? Remember that moment when their eyes glazed over? If you are thinking of the second they realized what you were talking about you are remembering it accurately.)

This is interesting; if they could put a small amount of money into studying whether there is a programme that has worked elsewhere I'd be totally on board with the decision to cut it.