Author Topic: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?  (Read 33383 times)

mm1970

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2016, 09:34:18 AM »
I definitely feel this with friends sometimes. I'm totally happy to just have a beer in the backyard and shoot the shit. It's amazing how many people feel the need that to get together with friends it has to be out, getting fancy cocktails, or over dinner. How about a walk and then a beer?
Yes, for sure my method of hanging out has changed.  I understand the desire to go out.  If I go out, on a date or with friends, it's a welcome respite from the kids. 

But over the last couple of years, my "tribe" has changed.

My friend MDB and I walk on Sundays or go to the gym, instead of out to lunch.
My other good friends? haven't seen them in 1.5 years because of traveling soccer (theirs).  Sigh.  And we talk about getting together, but they want to eat out.
My neighborhood tribe has a potluck every Sunday in the local park.  We bring wine and beer and eat and talk.  Kids play, men play frisbee.

MgoSam

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2016, 10:00:24 AM »
I definitely feel this with friends sometimes. I'm totally happy to just have a beer in the backyard and shoot the shit. It's amazing how many people feel the need that to get together with friends it has to be out, getting fancy cocktails, or over dinner. How about a walk and then a beer?

I used to be part of a young professional art group that goes to 10 shows a year (for a heavily subsized rate) to tweet/fb/social media about it. Anyways next year they are going to reduce the shows and include more hangout events and while talking to the organizer I mentioned that instead of going to a happy hour, it might be fun to do something to do something at someone's house (if they are willing to host) or at the sponsoring organization's building. The organizer and a few other members looked at me as if I was crazy until I mentioned that I host sushi nights every so often and it's only around $10 for everything (save alcohol). That caught their attention.

canuck_24

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2016, 09:09:40 AM »
I must be extremely lucky to not get bored of food?  Ever?  I have an apple every night for dessert and always look forward to it.  Don't get me wrong, I like trying new things and variety as much as anyone but I think I could open a brown bag, see the same type of sandwich every single day forever and still think (and often exclaim out loud), "ALRIGHT--A BALONEY SANDWICH!!  YUMMO!!"

Yeah, this is me too!  Same as you, I enjoy variety and trying new things... but I don't get bored of the staples.  I have a peanut butter sandwich at my desk for breakfast every day, and I savour that sandwich every. single. day.  It is a routine I look forward to in the morning, and I don't get tired of them!  It's especially comical when I eat half, get busy and forget I have half left.  I'm often heard exclaiming around 11am, "Yessssss!  I still have half a sandwich!" and then 30s later "Damn, that was a GOOD sandwich".  My officemate just shakes his head and laughs, "You have the same sandwich every day, how can you still look forward to it?"

canuck_24

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2016, 09:18:09 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2016, 10:22:38 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

Architects produce some seriously fugly, hard-to-use buildings. All the whizbang new materials, construction techniques, and bizarre angles or rooms are very hard to use for a versatile purpose. So one of the reasons public buildings built in, say, the 70s are being torn down today is because some idiot architect just had to get trendy in the past. Fifty or sixty years from now, what's trendy at the moment may well be just as overpriced, unusable, or hard-to-maintain.

dougules

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2016, 08:40:12 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

Architects produce some seriously fugly, hard-to-use buildings. All the whizbang new materials, construction techniques, and bizarre angles or rooms are very hard to use for a versatile purpose. So one of the reasons public buildings built in, say, the 70s are being torn down today is because some idiot architect just had to get trendy in the past. Fifty or sixty years from now, what's trendy at the moment may well be just as overpriced, unusable, or hard-to-maintain.

Yeah, mod buildings were frequently built with cool over practical, but how did people use them for decades and they're suddenly impractical now?  Yes, some buildings were built with shoddy construction and are deteriorating, but a lot of the buildings back then were built better than they are now.    People are just tearing them down because they're fugly, but fugly is in the eye of the beholder.  Somebody thought it was cool back in the day, so try to see what they saw in it.  The same argument was made about old Victorians in the era those were built.  Those were impractical because you have to add electrical wiring, bathrooms, plumbing, etc. etc.  We still wish they had been preserved. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2016, 10:27:44 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

Architects produce some seriously fugly, hard-to-use buildings. All the whizbang new materials, construction techniques, and bizarre angles or rooms are very hard to use for a versatile purpose. So one of the reasons public buildings built in, say, the 70s are being torn down today is because some idiot architect just had to get trendy in the past. Fifty or sixty years from now, what's trendy at the moment may well be just as overpriced, unusable, or hard-to-maintain.

Yeah, mod buildings were frequently built with cool over practical, but how did people use them for decades and they're suddenly impractical now?  Yes, some buildings were built with shoddy construction and are deteriorating, but a lot of the buildings back then were built better than they are now.    People are just tearing them down because they're fugly, but fugly is in the eye of the beholder.  Somebody thought it was cool back in the day, so try to see what they saw in it.  The same argument was made about old Victorians in the era those were built.  Those were impractical because you have to add electrical wiring, bathrooms, plumbing, etc. etc.  We still wish they had been preserved.

Whether a building is practical depends on what you're trying to use the buildings for. The way the buildings are being used is changing. Most of the classrooms in older university buildings are impractical now because they're trying to serve double or triple the number of students and can't cram 250+ first-year undergraduates into the same small room as the one used for remedial Math back before it was mandatory. So there's more of a demand for gigantic lecture halls, and less of a need for lab space.

I'm more worried about the practicality of buildings designed to not comply with fire codes or wheelchair accessibility rules, or that are designed with major structural problems or safety hazards. The architects seem to have had tons of money to waste on weird, experimental homage to Frank Lloyd Wrong: decorative hanging panels that serve no structural purpose but rip away in a high wind, gigantic south-facing floor to ceiling windows that are unusable and that have to be covered with heavy curtains because of the amount of glare and heat they generate, and flat roofs with stucco parapets that fall apart after fifteen years and produce constant leaks that in turn encourage mold. That's what I call fugly.

I like buildings designed for maintainability and usability. The Victorian buildings are great for that, because the roofs can actually deal with rain and they're extremely easy to maintain or repair compared to a flat roof with fashionable stucco parapets designed in the "southwest" style (which interestingly is not a style that was ever actually used by humans, it was invented by the tourism industry in the 1960's and 1970's and then a bunch of historical buildings that previously functioned were retrofitted to match the "southwest" look that tourists expected.)

dougules

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2016, 11:21:58 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

Architects produce some seriously fugly, hard-to-use buildings. All the whizbang new materials, construction techniques, and bizarre angles or rooms are very hard to use for a versatile purpose. So one of the reasons public buildings built in, say, the 70s are being torn down today is because some idiot architect just had to get trendy in the past. Fifty or sixty years from now, what's trendy at the moment may well be just as overpriced, unusable, or hard-to-maintain.

Yeah, mod buildings were frequently built with cool over practical, but how did people use them for decades and they're suddenly impractical now?  Yes, some buildings were built with shoddy construction and are deteriorating, but a lot of the buildings back then were built better than they are now.    People are just tearing them down because they're fugly, but fugly is in the eye of the beholder.  Somebody thought it was cool back in the day, so try to see what they saw in it.  The same argument was made about old Victorians in the era those were built.  Those were impractical because you have to add electrical wiring, bathrooms, plumbing, etc. etc.  We still wish they had been preserved.

Whether a building is practical depends on what you're trying to use the buildings for. The way the buildings are being used is changing. Most of the classrooms in older university buildings are impractical now because they're trying to serve double or triple the number of students and can't cram 250+ first-year undergraduates into the same small room as the one used for remedial Math back before it was mandatory. So there's more of a demand for gigantic lecture halls, and less of a need for lab space.

I'm more worried about the practicality of buildings designed to not comply with fire codes or wheelchair accessibility rules, or that are designed with major structural problems or safety hazards. The architects seem to have had tons of money to waste on weird, experimental homage to Frank Lloyd Wrong: decorative hanging panels that serve no structural purpose but rip away in a high wind, gigantic south-facing floor to ceiling windows that are unusable and that have to be covered with heavy curtains because of the amount of glare and heat they generate, and flat roofs with stucco parapets that fall apart after fifteen years and produce constant leaks that in turn encourage mold. That's what I call fugly.

I like buildings designed for maintainability and usability. The Victorian buildings are great for that, because the roofs can actually deal with rain and they're extremely easy to maintain or repair compared to a flat roof with fashionable stucco parapets designed in the "southwest" style (which interestingly is not a style that was ever actually used by humans, it was invented by the tourism industry in the 1960's and 1970's and then a bunch of historical buildings that previously functioned were retrofitted to match the "southwest" look that tourists expected.)

I get that buildings deteriorate, go obsolete, are energy inefficient, or are just too costly to remodel for contemporary needs.  It's definitely reasonable to tear those down and build new.  I just think a lot of times there isn't really a good faith effort to save buildings that are out of style at the moment.  Practical problems seem like they're often used as an excuse to waste existing construction and destroy historical buildings.  Cost-benefit analyses need to be done and done fairly before getting wrecking-ball-happy. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 11:24:36 AM by dougules »

opnfld

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2016, 11:53:53 AM »
I have rich friends and I have poor friends.  The rich friends are inadvertent snobs and the poor friends succumb to "peer" pressure (they think they are peers of the richies, but they're not).  What I don't have are poor friends who are creative enough to enjoy life without the accoutrement the rich friends promote.  That's something I aim to change.

One thing I have to be careful of...no one likes to talk about money or the saving of it in association with how life is meant to be enjoyed.

MgoSam

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2016, 01:21:58 PM »
What I don't have are poor friends who are creative enough to enjoy life without the accoutrement the rich friends promote.  That's something I aim to change.

One thing I have to be careful of...no one likes to talk about money or the saving of it in association with how life is meant to be enjoyed.

Where you at?

I'm fortunate in that I have a ton of friends that prefer to make dinner or do things at home so I don't need to spend all that much money. I do talk about money in abstract terms, what I mean is that I never share actual amounts but my friends know that I plan to retire before I turn 40. Some think I'm crazy, others are cheering me one, and a few have asked for advice (and sadly, quickly discarded nearly everything). Every once in a while someone will ask for advice in investing and I am eager to do so.

jinga nation

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2016, 01:56:15 PM »
opnfld... thank you for instigating the thought chain below:

The talk of Money... or Saving it.

According to my contractor (employer) policy, it is a no-no to discuss Race, Sexuality, Politics, or Religion in my workplace, which is a USGov workplace. We have uniform personnel, civilians, and contractors. All three talk endlessly on topics that are no-nos. These policies also apply to the uniformed personnel and govt civilians per Air Force rules (AF owns the base). Donald this, Hillary that, GLBT this, Race that, Christians this, Islam that, etc. etc. All taken with a blind eye by superiors, who also engage in it at their level, and with lower levels (visual direct line-of-sight and hearing it is ample proof). Everyone takes annual refresher training. What's the point of wasting 5000 man hours?

All love to brag how much they spent saving a few bucks by using coupons, cancelling the phone and TV package (but signed up for Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu), saving on the cellular data plan, etc. But the very mention about contributing to TSP or 401(k) plans and their assholes pucker. The guvvies fret about how to asset allocate 6 funds. Six! Fucking Six! The contractors say it's so confusing. So I try and help and direct to the BogleHeads Lazy Portfolios Wiki and answer questions. We have Vanguard funds, how can you say NO to that and a company match? Put in 6%, you get free 4%, instant vesting. There's TSP L funds and Vanguard Target Date funds for easier choice. Suddenly, they view my help with suspicion, and say it isn't worth the effort. They go back to retail therapy. Apparently the not-Caucasian guy, who owns rental properties and is encouraging you to save and invest and take the free money, has a silver snake-tongue.

Fuhgeddaboudit!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 02:05:53 PM by jinga nation »

MgoSam

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2016, 02:12:58 PM »
Suddenly, they view my help with suspicion, and say it isn't worth the effort. They go back to retail therapy. Apparently the not-Caucasian guy, who owns rental properties and is encouraging you to save and invest and take the free money, has a silver snake-tongue.

Fuhgeddaboudit!

I laughed at this!

theadvicist

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2016, 04:08:46 AM »

One thing I have to be careful of...no one likes to talk about money or the saving of it in association with how life is meant to be enjoyed.

This is so true.

Honestly, I don't feel isolated, because I never really talk about my mustachian ways.

Sure, if someone asks where we got x I'll say, "Ebay! It was half the price of new!". But if someone invites me to join them for an expensive dinner, I'll probably just say, "Actually, we've had a really busy week, but I've got some great steaks in the freezer. Why don't you come over tomorrow?". I found that once I started to invite people, they invited me back, and we broke the association of 'going out' to get together to eat. It also made friendships closer.

I make a point not to preach, or really tell anyone my FIRE plans. I have casually mentioned paying some money off our mortgage, when needing paperwork witnessing, so I don't think it will come as a total shock to people. But I never mention money when I turn anything down, I don't want to sound judgey about how they chose to spend theirs.

If you start suggesting free stuff (with a specific time / date in order to make actual plans) I think you might be surprised how many people say yes.

Making Cookies

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2016, 09:03:21 AM »

And the whole university thing I completely agree with.  We live close to a university and walk through the campus for exercise or to get to the grocery store.   They are building left and right.  It's partly justified by the increasing student body, but a lot of it is completely wasteful.  They levelled a building just because it was from the 70s and built a fancy new one in its place.  And there is plenty of open space on the campus for new buildings without knocking down old ones. 


Sadly, this happens most often because some faculty or board member or wants to create a "legacy" for themselves. It also happens with politicians where their last year or two in office they'll build an arena or have a certain part of town redone with cobblestones and planters and all that.  They get all the credit and a shiny brass plaque mounted with their name on it but the actual cash for the project came from students, taxpayers, etc.  It's all about the ego.

Maybe we need a big campaign to shame these people because it's really just inexcusable in an era when tuition, student loan debt, and government debt are out of control.  Their "legacy" needs to be "waste-monger." 


Knocking down of old building just because they don't fit the modern fashion sense makes me crazy.  My favourite buildings in almost any city, and especially on the campus of my old uni are my favourites BECAUSE they are old.  And most people love the oldest buildings on campus (ie. the original buildings from the early 1900s),  "But that building from the 70s, ugh, how passé!  I wish they would tear it down!"   ARGH!  It makes me crazy.  The buildings from the 70s will never get to become history because we don't let them stand long enough!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  Grumble grumble grumble.

Architects produce some seriously fugly, hard-to-use buildings. All the whizbang new materials, construction techniques, and bizarre angles or rooms are very hard to use for a versatile purpose. So one of the reasons public buildings built in, say, the 70s are being torn down today is because some idiot architect just had to get trendy in the past. Fifty or sixty years from now, what's trendy at the moment may well be just as overpriced, unusable, or hard-to-maintain.

Yeah, mod buildings were frequently built with cool over practical, but how did people use them for decades and they're suddenly impractical now?  Yes, some buildings were built with shoddy construction and are deteriorating, but a lot of the buildings back then were built better than they are now.    People are just tearing them down because they're fugly, but fugly is in the eye of the beholder.  Somebody thought it was cool back in the day, so try to see what they saw in it.  The same argument was made about old Victorians in the era those were built.  Those were impractical because you have to add electrical wiring, bathrooms, plumbing, etc. etc.  We still wish they had been preserved.

I always worry it is because somebody gets paid to take down the old, and somebody gets paid to put up a new building. An opportunity to profit for somebody? Yeah sounds like I'm watching too much TV.

Friend sent me this: http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/local/The--Bowser-Building--may-soon-be-gone--but-history-won-t-forget-the-man-and-the-empire-he-created

Said it is a viable building in their opinion. Run down neighborhood and no $M to motivate anyone to take care of it.

canuck_24

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2016, 10:26:14 AM »
This is so true.

Honestly, I don't feel isolated, because I never really talk about my mustachian ways.

Sure, if someone asks where we got x I'll say, "Ebay! It was half the price of new!". But if someone invites me to join them for an expensive dinner, I'll probably just say, "Actually, we've had a really busy week, but I've got some great steaks in the freezer. Why don't you come over tomorrow?". I found that once I started to invite people, they invited me back, and we broke the association of 'going out' to get together to eat. It also made friendships closer.

I make a point not to preach, or really tell anyone my FIRE plans. I have casually mentioned paying some money off our mortgage, when needing paperwork witnessing, so I don't think it will come as a total shock to people. But I never mention money when I turn anything down, I don't want to sound judgey about how they chose to spend theirs.

If you start suggesting free stuff (with a specific time / date in order to make actual plans) I think you might be surprised how many people say yes.

I have found the same results regarding switching plans to dinners at home, bon fires, or potlucks.  Most people accept the invite, and return the favour in the near future.  I completely agree that it deepens friendships when you cook for eachother and invite people into your home.

I also agree with exclamations over finding good deals, or purchasing at lower prices, this is a common thing for me.  However, your continued paragraph regarding "I make a point not to preach, or really tell anyone my FIRE plans." is a really valid point and something I personally would do well to remember!  This is precisely when I start to feel isolated.  Combine my enthusiasm regarding our plans for FIRE with my naturally transparent/open nature, and it results in over-sharing with people.  And the result is exactly what you describe, people feel judged, defensive or self-conscious about their own financial decisions.  I ENJOY discussing money, and I forget sometimes that most people don't.  Eep.

Warlord1986

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2016, 01:13:19 PM »

Sure, if someone asks where we got x I'll say, "Ebay! It was half the price of new!". But if someone invites me to join them for an expensive dinner, I'll probably just say, "Actually, we've had a really busy week, but I've got some great steaks in the freezer. Why don't you come over tomorrow?". I found that once I started to invite people, they invited me back, and we broke the association of 'going out' to get together to eat. It also made friendships closer.

If you start suggesting free stuff (with a specific time / date in order to make actual plans) I think you might be surprised how many people say yes.

This is so true. I've started inviting people over for dinner, or for brunch instead of suggesting we go out. It's much less expensive, very relaxed, and we can make healthier meals than the restaurants can. I think people like coming over and socializing, they just either never think about it, or maybe they feel like it would be intrusive?

Cassie

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2016, 01:17:22 PM »
When I was young (age 62 now) we always socialized with our friends at each others homes for meals, etc.  No one could afford meals out, babysitters, etc.  When I was newly divorced mid 40's I went out a lot with other single people but shortly after coupling up I made a point to invite others over and they do the same. NOt only is it cheaper but I can hear better and we can sit and talk as long as we want.  When we go out it is just usually the 2 of us. Being semi-retired we go out more then before to events where we meet/talk to other people, etc.  I am surprised by how much younger people go out now. My kids don't do that but are fairly frugal. They love to travel so save their $ for that. WE have 2 patios and have just made the one at the end of the yard a gathering spot by adding comfy chairs and a fire pit.  It is a great spot for entertaining and I got a deal of course.

misshathaway

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2016, 02:03:43 AM »
Not my experience either. Here I coastal SoCal everyone I know in their 40s, 50s and beyond are super fit, buff, athletic and very very physically active. Sure friends in their 50s still want to go out to eat and see a movie but that usually happens after they spent the day running a marathon, biking a century, hiking 25 miles or playing doubles volleyball on the beach all day. Its hard to keep up with the old folks around here ;-).

I should move

pachnik

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2016, 06:54:50 AM »
Wait till you hit your fifties. All anybody I know wants to do is go out to eat and/or go to the movies. And they are all fat. I wonder why.

This is mean. Maybe that's why I'm isolated :)

I guess I must know a different 50's crowd as we're all active, not fat and except for a really big premiere none of us enjoy going to the movies all the time.  I only have a couple close friends and they are frugal like I am, but if I had to go out and make friends forget it.  I'd rather be lonely.
Not my experience either. Here I coastal SoCal everyone I know in their 40s, 50s and beyond are super fit, buff, athletic and very very physically active. Sure friends in their 50s still want to go out to eat and see a movie but that usually happens after they spent the day running a marathon, biking a century, hiking 25 miles or playing doubles volleyball on the beach all day. Its hard to keep up with the old folks around here ;-).

I"m in my 50's and while I don't run marathons etc I'm in pretty good shape I think.  Every day I walk quickly for about 45 minutes to an hour.  Two mornings a week before work I go to the gym for a work out and three or four mornings a week I do yoga with online resources.   I found a yoga class I can get to before work but it is expensive so I think I will go every second week. 


JetBlast

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2016, 08:08:43 PM »
I like buildings designed for maintainability and usability. The Victorian buildings are great for that, because the roofs can actually deal with rain and they're extremely easy to maintain or repair compared to a flat roof with fashionable stucco parapets designed in the "southwest" style (which interestingly is not a style that was ever actually used by humans, it was invented by the tourism industry in the 1960's and 1970's and then a bunch of historical buildings that previously functioned were retrofitted to match the "southwest" look that tourists expected.)

There were some buildings that historically had parapets, with Taos Pueblo probably being much of the inspiration for the style of stucco with flat roofs and parapets. It made some sense when you were building a multi story structure like that and didn't want people or objects to fall off.  Here is and older picture of Taos and you can see that many people's feet are below the top of the walls. 



My home is "pueblo style", and while I'd prefer a pitched roof from a maintenance perspective, my wife fell in love with the style of architecture and I like it as well.  It does take some extra maintenance, but I always liked the pueblo style homes when I was growing up.

 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2016, 10:51:55 PM »
I like buildings designed for maintainability and usability. The Victorian buildings are great for that, because the roofs can actually deal with rain and they're extremely easy to maintain or repair compared to a flat roof with fashionable stucco parapets designed in the "southwest" style (which interestingly is not a style that was ever actually used by humans, it was invented by the tourism industry in the 1960's and 1970's and then a bunch of historical buildings that previously functioned were retrofitted to match the "southwest" look that tourists expected.)

There were some buildings that historically had parapets, with Taos Pueblo probably being much of the inspiration for the style of stucco with flat roofs and parapets. It made some sense when you were building a multi story structure like that and didn't want people or objects to fall off.  Here is and older picture of Taos and you can see that many people's feet are below the top of the walls. 



My home is "pueblo style", and while I'd prefer a pitched roof from a maintenance perspective, my wife fell in love with the style of architecture and I like it as well.  It does take some extra maintenance, but I always liked the pueblo style homes when I was growing up.

If the spaces in question were designed for regular human use, then yes, they did have parapets as a means to keep people from falling off. But the parapets in your picture are made from the same material as the walls: actual adobe mud over some kind of structure (they used brick at Acoma). It's not the glorified spray-on stuff that's put over chicken wire and that cracks after fifteen years in the sun. The roofs are also sloped enough to allow water to drain off instead of pooling up, and each roof section has its own drainage. Windows and doors are minimal, and are not the gigantic blue-framed glass monstrosities that leak around every corner. Also, a lot of those old mud buildings had walls a foot thick or more, which is how they stayed so warm in the winter and cool in the summer. They also required next to no maintenance.

For durability and usability I'd rate the real pueblo dwellings and shotgun houses very high. But they lack the common-sense features that made the extremely old buildings very livable, and bear very little resemblance to modern "southwest style" buildings except in terms of surface appearance.

redbird

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2016, 11:59:53 PM »
It mostly relates to food. Sometimes I get asked for restaurant suggestions and it boggles peoples' minds when I tell them that I can't give them any because I am lucky to eat out a handful of times in an entire year. I prefer cooking my own food at home since it's cheaper and I enjoy cooking.

I also did not like going out all the time with co-workers for lunch. I would go out with them once in a blue moon, but I had co-workers who would eat out for lunch (I'm not talking just fast food - sit down restaurants too!) every single day. Not only would that make my food budget go way out of control if I was like them, but that would also mean I'd have to be in the office longer. We didn't have mandatory lunch periods, but if you weren't eating at your desk while working, you had to clock out until you came back to work. Some co-workers would get miffed by me not going.

Stachey

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2016, 09:50:58 PM »
Some of my coworkers would drop twenty bucks on lunch...every day! 
And they would spend the entire time talking about work!  Even though they couldn't charge that time to the company.
Sad really.  They couldn't think of anything else to talk about.
I went once or twice but that was it.

sleepyguy

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2016, 11:03:41 AM »
That was me 8-9yrs ago...

Breakfast $5-7
Lunch $7-14
Afternoon snack $5-7

Yes every single frigg'in day for yrs!  Fridays were obviously more expensive because it was drinks after work as well!

Some of my coworkers would drop twenty bucks on lunch...every day! 
And they would spend the entire time talking about work!  Even though they couldn't charge that time to the company.
Sad really.  They couldn't think of anything else to talk about.
I went once or twice but that was it.

Kaspian

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2016, 11:27:19 AM »
Some co-workers would get miffed by me not going.

I got miffed at when I stopped going for coffee with co-workers every afternoon.  Mustachianism finally gave me the excuse I needed for myself.  The conversation was often extremely boring and one of the guys is a real dickhead.  Much happier now that I make my own instant coffee and go sit on a quiet bench outside during my breaks.

Sylly

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2016, 12:40:27 AM »
One of the complaints some people have about bringing lunch from home is that it's "too boring" because you know what you're going to get every day. An alternative might be to swap preparation duties with another person and then trade lunches.

Heh, I actually get bored of eating out for lunch all the time. My lunch out frequency is pretty low these days, but even when it was a few times a month sometimes I'd have to spend a few minutes figuring out where I should go this time, that I haven't had recently. There's only so many relatively fast lunch places near the office. While eating dinner leftovers for lunch means I eat that same meal maybe 2-3 times that week, I usually don't repeat things for at least a month, if not more.

greengardens

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #76 on: July 18, 2016, 02:52:05 PM »
I don't feel isolated as a frugal person, but I do feel like I am missing out on career advancing opportunities because I do not go out to lunch or after work drinks very often.

gggggg

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #77 on: July 18, 2016, 06:39:16 PM »
With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

theadvicist

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2016, 04:37:07 AM »
I don't feel isolated as a frugal person, but I do feel like I am missing out on career advancing opportunities because I do not go out to lunch or after work drinks very often.

This is a real thing, I'd be tempted to rethink. You may be saving a few $$ in the short term and costing yourself $$$ in lost salary increases.

I budget for 'office attire' as a cost of the job. I hate spending money on expensive suits and shoes. But when I started at my current position I dressed like I ran the place. I was taken on as temp covering a menial job for 2 weeks. Within two months... I did run the place. Obviously some of that is natural ability, and most of it is the gift of the gab. But the clothes definitely helped me be taken seriously. Luckily in my industry drinks and lunches are minimal, but I would pay for it if I had to.

Making Cookies

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2016, 08:00:30 AM »
With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

hang in there b/c you'll find the right mate and they'll have their head screwed on right when you do. It would be rough (impossible?) to be married to some of the people who have been discussed here on the comedy forum.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2016, 02:05:45 PM »
With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

Until you find the rare woman who would cringe at a man who picked her up in a BMW and brought her to a fancy condo with financed furniture. True, she would have to pass the test to know if the man in question bought these things cash or not, but she would still cringe at first. For her, you'd be a prince charming.

Basenji

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2016, 07:36:20 AM »
25 year old hand me down furniture is called "vintage" ; )

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2016, 07:58:06 AM »
I don't feel isolated as a frugal person, but I do feel like I am missing out on career advancing opportunities because I do not go out to lunch or after work drinks very often.

This is a real thing, I'd be tempted to rethink. You may be saving a few $$ in the short term and costing yourself $$$ in lost salary increases.

I, too, worry about this.  It's harder to meet people and be seen while having dinner or drinks at home and lunch in the office. 

dougules

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2016, 09:18:12 AM »
When I was young (age 62 now) we always socialized with our friends at each others homes for meals, etc.  No one could afford meals out, babysitters, etc.  When I was newly divorced mid 40's I went out a lot with other single people but shortly after coupling up I made a point to invite others over and they do the same. NOt only is it cheaper but I can hear better and we can sit and talk as long as we want.  When we go out it is just usually the 2 of us. Being semi-retired we go out more then before to events where we meet/talk to other people, etc.  I am surprised by how much younger people go out now. My kids don't do that but are fairly frugal. They love to travel so save their $ for that. WE have 2 patios and have just made the one at the end of the yard a gathering spot by adding comfy chairs and a fire pit.  It is a great spot for entertaining and I got a deal of course.

I'd like to have people over for supper some, but I always am a bit daunted by the work involved.  We've cut back about 75% of our restaurant spending, but that seems to have come at the expense of being social.  It's just that cleaning the house, cooking, and hosting seem exhausting.  I'm not sure how to make it past that.  Plus my cooking tends to be outside the realm of normal for here.  Maybe I just need to be a little less self conscious about the house and my cooking. 

mm1970

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2016, 09:27:21 AM »
With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

Until you find the rare woman who would cringe at a man who picked her up in a BMW and brought her to a fancy condo with financed furniture. True, she would have to pass the test to know if the man in question bought these things cash or not, but she would still cringe at first. For her, you'd be a prince charming.
I was about to ask you how old you were, then I looked and saw the side.

Anyway, I don't really know what to tell you, other than maybe try and figure out where to find "frugal women".  If there is such a thing.  Country girls?  Poor girls?  Maybe teachers or social workers?

When I met my husband I was 22 and he was 24.  I joke that I was after him for his car (a 1986 Chevy Nova, this was 1992, so it wasn't *THAT* old). 

While the frugalness wasn't really a thing I thought about, it's great that we were both frugal.  Our first date we paid $6 to play pick up volleyball at a local high school, then he made me a spaghetti dinner at home.

mm1970

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2016, 09:32:13 AM »
When I was young (age 62 now) we always socialized with our friends at each others homes for meals, etc.  No one could afford meals out, babysitters, etc.  When I was newly divorced mid 40's I went out a lot with other single people but shortly after coupling up I made a point to invite others over and they do the same. NOt only is it cheaper but I can hear better and we can sit and talk as long as we want.  When we go out it is just usually the 2 of us. Being semi-retired we go out more then before to events where we meet/talk to other people, etc.  I am surprised by how much younger people go out now. My kids don't do that but are fairly frugal. They love to travel so save their $ for that. WE have 2 patios and have just made the one at the end of the yard a gathering spot by adding comfy chairs and a fire pit.  It is a great spot for entertaining and I got a deal of course.

I'd like to have people over for supper some, but I always am a bit daunted by the work involved.  We've cut back about 75% of our restaurant spending, but that seems to have come at the expense of being social.  It's just that cleaning the house, cooking, and hosting seem exhausting.  I'm not sure how to make it past that.  Plus my cooking tends to be outside the realm of normal for here.  Maybe I just need to be a little less self conscious about the house and my cooking.
It takes practice.  We are WAY out of practice, but there was a time when we would be hanging out with the neighbors on a Saturday and just invite them to stay.

These days, weekends are for chores, and for cooking ahead for the week, so a party does seem daunting. And we're at the point where there are, say, 10 families we want to reconnect with - do we invite over everyone?  Two at a time?  All 10?  AYEEEEE

mm1970

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2016, 09:36:32 AM »
Not my experience either. Here I coastal SoCal everyone I know in their 40s, 50s and beyond are super fit, buff, athletic and very very physically active. Sure friends in their 50s still want to go out to eat and see a movie but that usually happens after they spent the day running a marathon, biking a century, hiking 25 miles or playing doubles volleyball on the beach all day. Its hard to keep up with the old folks around here ;-).

I should move
Come on out! Of course a lot of people here are very image and money conscious and obsessed with their looks (tons of nip/tucks being the norm) so that can be hard to deal with sometimes - and somewhat isolating if you don't care about those things. But most are very active.
All of this is true too. Many of my coworkers (30s to 60) bike to work, and bike really long distances.  The 50's crowd is pretty active.  The 40s crowd is active.  When I was running, I always fell in the middle no matter how much I trained. I'm not a fast runner in general, but other 40 something women are FAST.

It's a stark contrast to my home town (rural Western PA).  You know, there's something to be said for your circle of friends.  Mine are active.  There are some exceptions (many of us are in the midst of child rearing in our mid-40s.  It's hard when you have a baby or babies in your early 40s, there are a few years of self-neglect).

In my home town (was recently visiting), health and fitness are not the norm.  They are there.  I have HS buddies who do triathlons.  My cousin runs marathons.  My sisters walk.  My niece is in cross country.  Many of the adults have physical jobs.  But in general, the food is processed, there's too much alcohol, and not a lot of exercise.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2016, 10:31:28 AM »
I don't feel isolated as a frugal person, but I do feel like I am missing out on career advancing opportunities because I do not go out to lunch or after work drinks very often.

This is a real thing, I'd be tempted to rethink. You may be saving a few $$ in the short term and costing yourself $$$ in lost salary increases.

I, too, worry about this.  It's harder to meet people and be seen while having dinner or drinks at home and lunch in the office.

I agree, this is a thing. 

Not an expert, but here are a story and a couple of ideas about alternative ways of advancement:

Worked at an organization of 600 people (govt dept, similar to exceptionally stable private firm).  One day, my boss explained how he got his job.  Said he didn't try to be friends with others when they were all worker bees in our department; was polite and businesslike - not impersonal, just not getting into people's business or sharing any of his own personal anecdotes.  Basically, kept private.  When the supervisor position in our department came open, he applied.  In his opinion, he got the job partly for two reasons that both applied to the question of socializing:
1. Since he wasn't part of any faction or group, no one could view it as unfair when he was promoted.
2. Since he wasn't close to anyone, it was easy for him to transition from a peer relationship to a boss relationship - no hard feelings from the ranks.

So group membership is a two-edged sword.  Being an outsider can help sometimes as well as hurt.

Ideas:
-Network by attending professional groups and making friends there.  Benefits include outside perspective, and relationships with people who know about jobs.
-Read "What Color is Your Parachute" and learn to do informational interviews.  I think that people who are serious in approaching people and bring serious preparation to the table will get plenty of good responses.

In short, you can develop your career in ways that build on your Mustachian, thrifty self-reliance.  It can be a strength instead of a handicap.  Go forth and conquer!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 10:34:08 AM by Bicycle_B »

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #88 on: July 20, 2016, 10:52:12 AM »
With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

Until you find the rare woman who would cringe at a man who picked her up in a BMW and brought her to a fancy condo with financed furniture. True, she would have to pass the test to know if the man in question bought these things cash or not, but she would still cringe at first. For her, you'd be a prince charming.
I was about to ask you how old you were, then I looked and saw the side.

Anyway, I don't really know what to tell you, other than maybe try and figure out where to find "frugal women".  If there is such a thing.  Country girls?  Poor girls?  Maybe teachers or social workers?

When I met my husband I was 22 and he was 24.  I joke that I was after him for his car (a 1986 Chevy Nova, this was 1992, so it wasn't *THAT* old). 

While the frugalness wasn't really a thing I thought about, it's great that we were both frugal.  Our first date we paid $6 to play pick up volleyball at a local high school, then he made me a spaghetti dinner at home.

I'm hyper frugal, but I am neither considered "country" or "poor", nor am I a teacher or social worker (and I know several who are farrrr from frugal).

I think the best thing to do is simply join activities that you love. I happen to have many activities that are more popular with the frugal bunch (climbing, hiking, playing outside basically). I've found many a frugal people who share my interests in living simply and close to nature through these activities. I've also converted a few. And most who are not frugal respect my choices and joint activities are decided with this in mind. Set your financial boundaries (saying no to going out to dinner for example), and naturally, those who share similar interests AND similar financial values, will stick around - others won't.

Same thing with dating. Don't fake anything. If what makes you happy is taking a walk and perhaps sharing some 3$ pizza. That should be your first date. Someone who is worth it will love a second date. Someone who isn't, won't (but you don't want to waste your time with her anyway).

dougules

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #89 on: July 20, 2016, 11:21:26 AM »
I'd like to have people over for supper some, but I always am a bit daunted by the work involved.  We've cut back about 75% of our restaurant spending, but that seems to have come at the expense of being social.  It's just that cleaning the house, cooking, and hosting seem exhausting.  I'm not sure how to make it past that.  Plus my cooking tends to be outside the realm of normal for here.  Maybe I just need to be a little less self conscious about the house and my cooking.
It takes practice.  We are WAY out of practice, but there was a time when we would be hanging out with the neighbors on a Saturday and just invite them to stay.

These days, weekends are for chores, and for cooking ahead for the week, so a party does seem daunting. And we're at the point where there are, say, 10 families we want to reconnect with - do we invite over everyone?  Two at a time?  All 10?  AYEEEEE

I guess I just need to get in practice.  Plus I think the more I do it the more I will feel comfortable with my friends seeing a little bit of clutter or eating my cooking.  DH is really picky, so if I can get him to eat it I can get anybody to eat it. 

And yes, part of the problem is I have just enough energy to do all the chores after dealing with work.  Hopefully that will be a little better in a few years when I hit FIRE. 


With my family, I don't feel isolated, because they're pretty frugal too. My best friend is prob more frugal than I am. My problem is dating. Most women don't seem to like the frugalness. Lately it seems like they want guys who spend like they're about to croak. They want fancy this and that. My car is pretty nice, but when they see my super modest condo, complete with 25 year old hand me down furniture, they're NOT impressed. Also, I don't take expensive trips or do many expensive dinners, so, again, they're not impressed. They would prob be more impressed if they saw my net worth and zero debt (including mortgage), but they have to pass the test first, which most don't.

Until you find the rare woman who would cringe at a man who picked her up in a BMW and brought her to a fancy condo with financed furniture. True, she would have to pass the test to know if the man in question bought these things cash or not, but she would still cringe at first. For her, you'd be a prince charming.
I was about to ask you how old you were, then I looked and saw the side.

Anyway, I don't really know what to tell you, other than maybe try and figure out where to find "frugal women".  If there is such a thing.  Country girls?  Poor girls?  Maybe teachers or social workers?

When I met my husband I was 22 and he was 24.  I joke that I was after him for his car (a 1986 Chevy Nova, this was 1992, so it wasn't *THAT* old). 

While the frugalness wasn't really a thing I thought about, it's great that we were both frugal.  Our first date we paid $6 to play pick up volleyball at a local high school, then he made me a spaghetti dinner at home.

I'm hyper frugal, but I am neither considered "country" or "poor", nor am I a teacher or social worker (and I know several who are farrrr from frugal).

I think the best thing to do is simply join activities that you love. I happen to have many activities that are more popular with the frugal bunch (climbing, hiking, playing outside basically). I've found many a frugal people who share my interests in living simply and close to nature through these activities. I've also converted a few. And most who are not frugal respect my choices and joint activities are decided with this in mind. Set your financial boundaries (saying no to going out to dinner for example), and naturally, those who share similar interests AND similar financial values, will stick around - others won't.

Same thing with dating. Don't fake anything. If what makes you happy is taking a walk and perhaps sharing some 3$ pizza. That should be your first date. Someone who is worth it will love a second date. Someone who isn't, won't (but you don't want to waste your time with her anyway).

I'll add my 2¢ to this whole dating thing.  On top of all these good suggestions, confidence is one of the things that really makes a guy attractive.  If you're insecure about looking poor it will show.  I know that's hard when you're alone and the gold diggers are either ignoring you or making fun of you.  You will have the last laugh when they're living paycheck to paycheck with that man who has a big condo.  Stay confident.  If you do you'll eventually find a smart girl who will see that your old furniture will give her a way better future than the guy with nice furniture and a mountain of debt.   (I wouldn't make this into some kind of test, though)

theadvicist

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2016, 03:57:23 AM »

I'd like to have people over for supper some, but I always am a bit daunted by the work involved.  We've cut back about 75% of our restaurant spending, but that seems to have come at the expense of being social.  It's just that cleaning the house, cooking, and hosting seem exhausting.  I'm not sure how to make it past that.  Plus my cooking tends to be outside the realm of normal for here.  Maybe I just need to be a little less self conscious about the house and my cooking.

I used to feel like this. The biggest impediment for me was cleaning the house.

I have found that cutting back on stuff dramatically makes this so much easier. To the point that my house is now always neat and tidy, and I can clean it top to bottom (dusting, vacuuming, bathrooms, everything except the windows) in about half an hour. The kitchen is always clean because we wipe every surface when cleaning up from meals.

The stuff was the issue. I had to move things to clean around them. With most surfaces clear, it takes literally seconds to dust. Stuff does not live 'out' if I want it it is in a drawer or cupboard. Previously these drawers and cupboards were full of stuff we were 'storing' and didn't really use. Getting rid of THAT stuff gave me space to put everything we do use 'away' in a designated place.

Now, I can literally invite someone in if they knock on the door. Life-changing for a life-long messy person like me!

As for cooking etc. Start with a couple of people. Ease into it. They will invite you back. You will see what meals work well in a group setting. I like to do fajitas for a group I don't know well because people have control over what they put in their dinner. As you get to know people better you will see what works and what doesn't.

I now much prefer entertaining at home / being entertained in people's homes. The friendships get deeper, the conversations are longer and unhurried. You don't have some interrupting you and asking if everything is alright constantly, and you get refills yourself!

As with many things, just try it, and it will get easier and better every time.

Don't try complex recipes for the first time with guests. I often do things that stay in the oven until they are ready to serve. Less stress and more time to chat.

Cassie

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2016, 01:46:07 PM »
If you pick up your house and there is no clutter it will look clean unless it is really dirty.  Also people come for dinner to visit and have fun-not to inspect your housekeeping skills. I never notice unless a house is really bad.

Basenji

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2016, 03:22:28 PM »
If you pick up your house and there is no clutter it will look clean unless it is really dirty.  Also people come for dinner to visit and have fun-not to inspect your housekeeping skills. I never notice unless a house is really bad.
I've been to friends' homes when they weren't spotless and I felt flattered that I was no longer a stranger, but an intimate who was trusted to not care about a few dust bunnies and who wanted to be there to see friends.

dougules

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2016, 03:29:41 PM »
If you pick up your house and there is no clutter it will look clean unless it is really dirty.  Also people come for dinner to visit and have fun-not to inspect your housekeeping skills. I never notice unless a house is really bad.
I've been to friends' homes when they weren't spotless and I felt flattered that I was no longer a stranger, but an intimate who was trusted to not care about a few dust bunnies and who wanted to be there to see friends.

I think that's the point I need to get to with friends.  DH sees the mess.  If he can tolerate it, so can everybody else.

Archivist

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2016, 01:16:21 PM »
I sometimes feel isolated between two worlds. I grew up in a blue collar family in a rural area, and my parents never had much money left over, but what they did spend their money on tended to be the opposite of what I now choose to prioritize my spending on. So even though I am frugal as they always had to be, it looks to them like I'm spending frivolously on the wrong things (like travel) and not on the right things (houses, children and cars). We do have plans to buy a nice house and car after we've saved more money, but they think we're weird for not jumping in right away and just having higher payments.

Meanwhile, now I live in a bigger city and work in a white collar environment. I often feel like the odd one out for having an older, uglier car, for not having really fashionable clothes, or not going out to every hip restaurant and bar in town.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2016, 02:30:58 PM »
Quote


One of the complaints some people have about bringing lunch from home is that it's "too boring" because you know what you're going to get every day. An alternative might be to swap preparation duties with another person and then trade lunches.

One of the most powerful things for me was adapting the "food-is-fuel" mantra. When you view food as a means to fuel your body for optimal performance, you don't mind putting the same healthy thing into it most every day. This saves time and money and teaches you to crave healthy, nourishing food.

When you're eating because it's a sensory experience, you spend far more time and money and end up fat.

I must be extremely lucky to not get bored of food?  Ever?  I have an apple every night for dessert and always look forward to it.  Don't get me wrong, I like trying new things and variety as much as anyone but I think I could open a brown bag, see the same type of sandwich every single day forever and still think (and often exclaim out loud), "ALRIGHT--A BALONEY SANDWICH!!  YUMMO!!"   Funny that people are so concerned about having their coffee every day prepared exactly how they like it but get fussy over having the same food.

...Or maybe it's just plain insanity.  This often happens:

Me:  "Spaghetti!  Can't wait!!  Delicious!!"
Friend:  "You had that yesterday--it's actually just leftovers of the exact same dish being heated up, dummy."
Me:  [Blank, confused stare.]  "Spaghetti!  Can't wait!!  Delicious!!"

It'd  probably have to be daily white bread and water for me to get bored.

Love this.

Also, paging marty998... :D

marty998

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2016, 03:09:53 PM »
I have mentioned this before here... my cheese and vegemite sandwiches every weekday for decades :D

Not saying it's good or bad but many people I know turn lunch into an "Event".

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2016, 04:00:23 PM »
Eating out and food in general definitely seems a major problem.
I was irritated spending $5 on a sandwich at the lunch cafeteria. $5 can make a damn good meal. I splurged and spent $5/person at lunch today for sirloin steaks for me and my wife. $5 for lunch at work?! Seriously?!

I also do not get the expensive EVERYTHING other people die. Why the hell are you spending $18.99/pound on meat for anything other than the Pope for dinner? Even my in-laws buy some rather expensive chicken cuts. My big splurge this week was an Eye of Round roast @ $4.99/pound. $17 in total, I am expecting it to feed 6 people (along with some side dishes). Actually, that's coming out to a $5/person luxury meal (not including the beer and whiskey).

Bah!

Then the next is travel. I do not get people who are taking 2 intercontinental vacations every year for multiple weeks at a time.


The last is any DIY project. Everyone in my generation is terrified of even mowing the lawn. Come on, guys. Come on.

Zikoris

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2016, 04:44:34 PM »
There was a bit of a transition period between drifting away from the spendier people in our lives, and meeting people with similar values. It definitely helped that we're not SUPER social and enjoy just spending time together as a couple. I also got involved in helping to launch a local Mustachian group, which now has "official" meetups about once a month, and a lot of us hang out together outside of that as well.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Do you sometimes feel isolated as a frugal or MMM person?
« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2016, 06:52:06 PM »
If you pick up your house and there is no clutter it will look clean unless it is really dirty.  Also people come for dinner to visit and have fun-not to inspect your housekeeping skills. I never notice unless a house is really bad.
I've been to friends' homes when they weren't spotless and I felt flattered that I was no longer a stranger, but an intimate who was trusted to not care about a few dust bunnies and who wanted to be there to see friends.

Yes! Married friends of mine live in a two-storey townhouse with their kids. They openly admit to trying to keep downstairs tidy for guests, whereas upstairs is another story.

The first time I was invited upstairs was a sign we'd reached a new level of friendship. :)

Now if I arrive and my friend is upstairs bathing the kids or making beds or something, she just yells, "Come on up, ignore the mess!"