Author Topic: Biking is dangerous  (Read 16031 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2017, 11:07:26 AM »


Distrust people driving light trucks:
- 45% of all deaths are caused by SUV, Van, and pickup truck drivers.

Wouldn't that mean 55% are from regular cars and we should distrust them MORE?

The remaining 55% is made up of regular cars, large trucks, buses, and other (motorcycles I'm guessing?).  Regular cars do come in a pretty close second place.  This point was provided for some humour though, not as an actual suggestion.  You should distrust all motorists of course.  :P




I've been attacked numerous times why bicycling. 

1. was sucker punched while bicycling very slowly on a downtown sidewalk by a 11 or 12 year-old kid.  I was a pretty weak punch. 
2. had a group of teenagers attempt to steal my bike while I was walking it and talking on my cell phone.  I punched one of them in the nose while still holding the phone, which broke the phone, but they all ran off. 
3. was ambushed late at night while biking up a hill by three teenagers.  They pushed me into a parked car and I rolled my ankle while bailing from the bike (but didn't feel that until the next day).  I realized that none of them could ride a bike since one of them threw my bike at me, which broke the seat.  The big loss in this incident wasn't my wallet, which had a grand total of about $20 in it, but my new eye glasses which were punched off my face and run over by a car.  They cost about $400 to replace.  The only reason I gave them the wallet was because they claimed they had a gun, but they never flashed it.   
4.  a week after incident 3 I was riding at night near a hospital and was chased on foot by a guy who was about 20, but I was able to ride away without him reaching me. 

Much scarier than any of these incidents were my many run-ins with loose dogs.  I have been bitten twice, once in the heal and another time just below the ankle.  The scariest dog was a mad dog in Kentucky.  I had never seen a mad dog before but there was no mistaking it when it appeared from nowhere and ran at over 20mph after me.  I was on a commuter bike, not a road bike, so I was barely able to stay in front of it.  Then it randomly veered off to chase an imaginary object. 

The big problem with dogs is when you're going uphill.  If they want to bite you, you're a sitting duck.  Sometimes they look like they're contained by a farm's fence but they'll run to some spot where they can get under it. 
 


Dude.  I'm kinda anti-gun, but if cycling through your neighbourhood would likely look like this:


marielle

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2017, 11:43:11 AM »
Jesus, I've considered getting my conceal carry license but not sure what I'd do with it once I got to a business where it wasn't allowed. Sometimes I bring my bike inside too...

I guess I'll get some pepper spray at the very least...

robartsd

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #152 on: September 28, 2017, 01:30:40 PM »
Dogs have been my biggest concern too (besides motorists). I've never been seriously chased, but have seen a dog in the middle of a street and adjusted my route to avoid more than once.

dougules

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #153 on: September 28, 2017, 04:01:09 PM »
I've been attacked numerous times why bicycling. 

1. was sucker punched while bicycling very slowly on a downtown sidewalk by a 11 or 12 year-old kid.  I was a pretty weak punch. 
2. had a group of teenagers attempt to steal my bike while I was walking it and talking on my cell phone.  I punched one of them in the nose while still holding the phone, which broke the phone, but they all ran off. 
3. was ambushed late at night while biking up a hill by three teenagers.  They pushed me into a parked car and I rolled my ankle while bailing from the bike (but didn't feel that until the next day).  I realized that none of them could ride a bike since one of them threw my bike at me, which broke the seat.  The big loss in this incident wasn't my wallet, which had a grand total of about $20 in it, but my new eye glasses which were punched off my face and run over by a car.  They cost about $400 to replace.  The only reason I gave them the wallet was because they claimed they had a gun, but they never flashed it.   
4.  a week after incident 3 I was riding at night near a hospital and was chased on foot by a guy who was about 20, but I was able to ride away without him reaching me. 

Much scarier than any of these incidents were my many run-ins with loose dogs.  I have been bitten twice, once in the heal and another time just below the ankle.  The scariest dog was a mad dog in Kentucky.  I had never seen a mad dog before but there was no mistaking it when it appeared from nowhere and ran at over 20mph after me.  I was on a commuter bike, not a road bike, so I was barely able to stay in front of it.  Then it randomly veered off to chase an imaginary object. 

The big problem with dogs is when you're going uphill.  If they want to bite you, you're a sitting duck.  Sometimes they look like they're contained by a farm's fence but they'll run to some spot where they can get under it.

That doesn't sound like a problem with biking as much as a problem with where you live. 

RidetheRain

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #154 on: September 28, 2017, 04:14:20 PM »
I've been attacked numerous times why bicycling. 

1. was sucker punched while bicycling very slowly on a downtown sidewalk by a 11 or 12 year-old kid.  I was a pretty weak punch. 
2. had a group of teenagers attempt to steal my bike while I was walking it and talking on my cell phone.  I punched one of them in the nose while still holding the phone, which broke the phone, but they all ran off. 
3. was ambushed late at night while biking up a hill by three teenagers.  They pushed me into a parked car and I rolled my ankle while bailing from the bike (but didn't feel that until the next day).  I realized that none of them could ride a bike since one of them threw my bike at me, which broke the seat.  The big loss in this incident wasn't my wallet, which had a grand total of about $20 in it, but my new eye glasses which were punched off my face and run over by a car.  They cost about $400 to replace.  The only reason I gave them the wallet was because they claimed they had a gun, but they never flashed it.   
4.  a week after incident 3 I was riding at night near a hospital and was chased on foot by a guy who was about 20, but I was able to ride away without him reaching me. 

Much scarier than any of these incidents were my many run-ins with loose dogs.  I have been bitten twice, once in the heal and another time just below the ankle.  The scariest dog was a mad dog in Kentucky.  I had never seen a mad dog before but there was no mistaking it when it appeared from nowhere and ran at over 20mph after me.  I was on a commuter bike, not a road bike, so I was barely able to stay in front of it.  Then it randomly veered off to chase an imaginary object. 

The big problem with dogs is when you're going uphill.  If they want to bite you, you're a sitting duck.  Sometimes they look like they're contained by a farm's fence but they'll run to some spot where they can get under it.

That doesn't sound like a problem with biking as much as a problem with where you live.

Agreed.

When people start throwing punches and threatening to shoot you it's a sign you shouldn't be there anymore.
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LiveLean

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #155 on: September 28, 2017, 04:27:45 PM »
 I used to do a lot of road cycling. It's inherently dangerous, but I gave it up altogether in recent years because of smart phones. Distracted driving has made things too dangerous.

I also do a lot of stand-up paddleboarding. I never go on the water on the weekends. Most boaters are drunk. Even the sober ones are reckless.

Whether you're a biker or paddleboarder, you have rights. You also have the right of way in many instances. Your surviving spouse no doubt will make that argument when they file suit.
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UKMustache

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #156 on: September 29, 2017, 05:44:20 AM »
Big sigh.

A couple of bike related 'fun' moments yesterday.

A girl on the sidewalk literally stopped walking, turned and then stepped into the road without looking up from her phone. 
She didn't hear my shouting because she had headphones in and I only managed to miss her by braking hard and swerving.
If I had been a car or a truck she would be dead.  If there had been a car or truck next to me, I'd have been dead.

About 2 miles later a mercedes started to overtake me, before slamming his brakes on and turning into a side street.  My handle bar touched his car as he turned, I'm not quite sure how I stayed on or what the fuck he was playing at.

The pedestrian thing happens ALL THE TIME but that's the closest I've come to being hit by a car for a while.

barbaz

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #157 on: September 29, 2017, 08:14:58 AM »
A girl on the sidewalk literally stopped walking, turned and then stepped into the road without looking up from her phone. 
She didn't hear my shouting because she had headphones in and I only managed to miss her by braking hard and swerving.
If I had been a car or a truck she would be dead.  If there had been a car or truck next to me, I'd have been dead.
Never try to dodge when biking on a street! This is a common scenario where I live: someone exits their car without looking and steps in front of a bike, the biker swerves and is killed by traffic.

I try to visualize this every time before I step on a bike: if someone steps in my path, they will cushion my fall. It's better to hit a car than to get hit by one.

(BTW you shouldnt swerve when driving a car either)

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #158 on: September 29, 2017, 08:23:35 AM »
A girl on the sidewalk literally stopped walking, turned and then stepped into the road without looking up from her phone. 
She didn't hear my shouting because she had headphones in and I only managed to miss her by braking hard and swerving.
If I had been a car or a truck she would be dead.  If there had been a car or truck next to me, I'd have been dead.
Never try to dodge when biking on a street! This is a common scenario where I live: someone exits their car without looking and steps in front of a bike, the biker swerves and is killed by traffic.

I try to visualize this every time before I step on a bike: if someone steps in my path, they will cushion my fall. It's better to hit a car than to get hit by one.

(BTW you shouldnt swerve when driving a car either)

I've also decided that it's probably safer to roll straight into the thing in front of me rather than swerve left (or grab a handful of front brake).

That said, this is one of the benefits of looking ahead and taking the lane when you spot potential dangers.  If there are parked cars up ahead, you shoulder check and then move out three feet away from the cars.  If there are pedestrians close to the edge of the sidewalk you move about three feet away from the curb.  By doing this you get safe swerve room to the right in the case of the pedestrian, avoid the open door issue entirely, and get a little extra time to see/hear the problem coming in both cases.

zhelud

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #159 on: September 29, 2017, 08:58:17 AM »
Big sigh.



A girl on the sidewalk literally stopped walking, turned and then stepped into the road without looking up from her phone. 
She didn't hear my shouting because she had headphones in and I only managed to miss her by braking hard and swerving.
If I had been a car or a truck she would be dead.  If there had been a car or truck next to me, I'd have been dead.



I see this all the time on our local multi-use trails. Walker or runner suddenly decides to turn around, into the other "lane," without looking- and they have headphones on, meaning that they can't hear if a biker has signaled that he or she is about to pass.  In fact I've almost had bike accidents that way.
There was a court case recently in my state- a biker sued a runner who did this and caused the biker to fall and get a serious head injury. Biker won a lot of money.

UKMustache

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2017, 10:11:02 AM »
A girl on the sidewalk literally stopped walking, turned and then stepped into the road without looking up from her phone. 
She didn't hear my shouting because she had headphones in and I only managed to miss her by braking hard and swerving.
If I had been a car or a truck she would be dead.  If there had been a car or truck next to me, I'd have been dead.
Never try to dodge when biking on a street! This is a common scenario where I live: someone exits their car without looking and steps in front of a bike, the biker swerves and is killed by traffic.

I try to visualize this every time before I step on a bike: if someone steps in my path, they will cushion my fall. It's better to hit a car than to get hit by one.

(BTW you shouldnt swerve when driving a car either)

Now I'm sat at my computer thinking about it, that makes perfect sense.  It's a different thing when it happens and your body reacts before you've had time to think!

I'm normally pretty good at spotting who's going to do something stupid and giving them more space, she nearly got me because of the sudden change in direction.

barbaz

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #161 on: September 29, 2017, 11:35:20 AM »
Now I'm sat at my computer thinking about it, that makes perfect sense.  It's a different thing when it happens and your body reacts before you've had time to think!
I know. You need to mentally prepare yourself for this.

jfolsen

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #162 on: September 29, 2017, 08:28:20 PM »
Bikes and cars, not a good mix. All of these are people I actually know, but obviously it's anecdotal evidence.

Older avid biker tangled with a car and has a severe spinal cord injury somewhere in the neck area. Slowly regaining use of extremities after a year.
Another near retirement age, also cycled regularly, crashed into a suddenly stopped car, concussion, never been right since, memory loss and slurred speech.
One of my closest friends, top junior cyclist in the US, front wheel collapsed (no car involved), flipped over the handlebars at high speed and broke his collar bone, it set about an inch different from the other side. He dies in a car crash several years later, just him, the car and a telephone pole on a turn, he never turned or touched the brakes from what they could tell.

So, yeah, my totally unscientific experience is that bikes can be bad, around cars deadly.

robartsd

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #163 on: October 02, 2017, 08:52:41 AM »
There was a court case recently in my state- a biker sued a runner who did this and caused the biker to fall and get a serious head injury. Biker won a lot of money.
As it should be (unless biker violating the rules of the trail contributed to the hazard of the situation).

Bikes and cars, not a good mix. All of these are people I actually know, but obviously it's anecdotal evidence.

People and cars, not a good mix. Here's the perspective of someone who was run over by a car from behind while making a left turn:
Quote
After several visits to the orthopedic institute, I also have some perspective that I didn’t have before. Basically every patient I saw there under the age of 80, other than me, had been injured in a car.

“My husband was driving when we were sideswiped…”

“I was driving my pickup…”

 “Our car rolled over when it went off the road…”

These people were traumatized. They were, understandably, afraid to get back in their cars. They did it anyway, because they felt like they didn’t have a choice. And in some cases they were right, because that’s how the US is designed. But their fear was justified.
By the time she rode this, she was back to using a bike as her primary transporation in San Francisco (though usually making Copenhagen lefts rather than taking the left-turn lane).

infogoon

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #164 on: October 03, 2017, 06:13:35 AM »
These people were traumatized. They were, understandably, afraid to get back in their cars. They did it anyway, because they felt like they didn’t have a choice. And in some cases they were right, because that’s how the US is designed. But their fear was justified.

The first person I ever met who was a year-round cycle commuter had a story like this. He was sitting in his car in a McDonald's parking lot, eating a hamburger, when a drunk driver in a lifted pickup truck pulled into the parking lot and drove up over the trunk of his car and onto the roof. It took three hours to cut him out of the wreckage. He was miraculously unharmed, but he never got in a car again.

jmecklenborg

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #165 on: October 03, 2017, 02:07:38 PM »
Bikes and cars, not a good mix. All of these are people I actually know, but obviously it's anecdotal evidence.

Older avid biker tangled with a car and has a severe spinal cord injury somewhere in the neck area. Slowly regaining use of extremities after a year.
Another near retirement age, also cycled regularly, crashed into a suddenly stopped car, concussion, never been right since, memory loss and slurred speech.
One of my closest friends, top junior cyclist in the US, front wheel collapsed (no car involved), flipped over the handlebars at high speed and broke his collar bone, it set about an inch different from the other side. He dies in a car crash several years later, just him, the car and a telephone pole on a turn, he never turned or touched the brakes from what they could tell.

So, yeah, my totally unscientific experience is that bikes can be bad, around cars deadly.

Many professional road cyclists go their entire career without any collisions with cars, despite training on open roads almost every day of the year, year after year.  Some people are just a lot more comfortable with the environment out there on city and country roads. It's like how some people are comfortable rock climbing and others aren't (I'm not!), and to me rock climbing seems about 1,000% more dangerous than bicycling. 

Re: biking on paved multi-use trails -- I have witnessed all of the nonsense others describe.  In my opinion the multi-use trails seem to be at least as dangerous as biking on the open road.  The loop in Central Park and the lakefront trail in Chicago can get pretty bad, but because they're in the city, people are more used to it.  The rails-to-trails paved trails are where things can get wild because road bikers want to keep hauling at 20-25mph or faster but walkers, joggers, and novice bikers randomly and regularly stop and swerve into the passing lane.  When you're out biking on city streets, you get heckled and told to go bike on the trail, but then when you're on the trail, you get heckled by people for passing them "aggressively". 

Repeatedly you see families and groups taking up the entire trail.  You'd think after the first or second time a road biker yells at them to let them pass they'd get it, but they don't. 

 

Slee_stack

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #166 on: October 09, 2017, 02:11:45 PM »

Re: biking on paved multi-use trails -- I have witnessed all of the nonsense others describe.  In my opinion the multi-use trails seem to be at least as dangerous as biking on the open road.  The loop in Central Park and the lakefront trail in Chicago can get pretty bad, but because they're in the city, people are more used to it.  The rails-to-trails paved trails are where things can get wild because road bikers want to keep hauling at 20-25mph or faster but walkers, joggers, and novice bikers randomly and regularly stop and swerve into the passing lane.  When you're out biking on city streets, you get heckled and told to go bike on the trail, but then when you're on the trail, you get heckled by people for passing them "aggressively". 

Repeatedly you see families and groups taking up the entire trail.  You'd think after the first or second time a road biker yells at them to let them pass they'd get it, but they don't.
Yes, oblivious people sucking up a whole MUT is annoying.  But far worse is the lycra clad Lance wannabee trying to maintain 25mph+ on a crowded MUT on a late Saturday morning and getting all pissy when you don't jump off the path to 'make way'!!  (this goes for ALL users in both directions by the way...Lance has to thread the needle to keep pace !!)

At least the clueless family aren't intentionally being pricks.

I both walk and ride MUTs...and I set my expectations accordingly every time.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 02:14:17 PM by Slee_stack »

Slee_stack

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #167 on: October 09, 2017, 02:20:01 PM »
Back on topic...biking is indeed dangerous.

Just this past Saturday, I crashed on a MUT and am sporting a little annoying road rash.

No one else was involved and it was entirely my fault as I was riding wet pavement with tires that were not suitable to the task.

Its also somewhat embarrassing to crash at approximately 8 mph and have no pedestrians, debris, or crazy car drivers in sight to blame for it. 

Amusingly, my brother had no idea what was going down (me!) at the time and initially thought I was making some sad attempt at a 'powerslide'.

Oh well.  At least I learned my lesson and my bike is barely worse off for wear.  I did have to blow some cash on new tires, but they grip so much nicer and I'll be back out there in short order.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 02:26:29 PM by Slee_stack »

mm1970

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2017, 02:41:47 PM »

Re: biking on paved multi-use trails -- I have witnessed all of the nonsense others describe.  In my opinion the multi-use trails seem to be at least as dangerous as biking on the open road.  The loop in Central Park and the lakefront trail in Chicago can get pretty bad, but because they're in the city, people are more used to it.  The rails-to-trails paved trails are where things can get wild because road bikers want to keep hauling at 20-25mph or faster but walkers, joggers, and novice bikers randomly and regularly stop and swerve into the passing lane.  When you're out biking on city streets, you get heckled and told to go bike on the trail, but then when you're on the trail, you get heckled by people for passing them "aggressively". 

Repeatedly you see families and groups taking up the entire trail.  You'd think after the first or second time a road biker yells at them to let them pass they'd get it, but they don't.
Yes, oblivious people sucking up a whole MUT is annoying.  But far worse is the lycra clad Lance wannabee trying to maintain 25mph+ on a crowded MUT on a late Saturday morning and getting all pissy when you don't jump off the path to 'make way'!!  (this goes for ALL users in both directions by the way...Lance has to thread the needle to keep pace !!)

At least the clueless family aren't intentionally being pricks.

I both walk and ride MUTs...and I set my expectations accordingly every time.

This is kind of what I was going to say.  My observations here in California - where we have a lot of cyclists -

Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.

They get into accidents for several reasons - but the main one being that cars just aren't expecting that.  Aside from the fact that many people in cars are clueless, not paying attention, running through stop signs in front of my house - when they are sharing the road with bikes (in bike lanes), they often cut them off or side-swipe them because they are going faster than expected.

I used to bike to work fairly often (might start up again), but I mosey along at 10-13 mph (average, including stop signs and stop lights).  I think that's what drivers are expecting.

As far as multi-use trails, come on you have to expect that.  Where the fuck else am I supposed to teach my 5 year old to ride a bike?  Let's face it, 5 year olds (or even my 11 year old) swerve unexpectedly.  And families often ride side by side for short periods to check on their kids.  "Multi-use" means bikes, walkers, kids, etc.

You want to know what REALLY pisses me off is the cyclists on the damned sidewalk by the beach.  We literally have a Multi use path on one side, and a road on the other side.  It's obvious to anyone with a brain that the sidewalk is for walkers.  There are even signs painted on the sidewalk with a bicycle and red circle with a line through it.  The big groups of cyclists in their lycra tend to ride on the road.  The families and walkers are on the MU path.  WTF people.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #169 on: October 10, 2017, 07:31:30 AM »

Re: biking on paved multi-use trails -- I have witnessed all of the nonsense others describe.  In my opinion the multi-use trails seem to be at least as dangerous as biking on the open road.  The loop in Central Park and the lakefront trail in Chicago can get pretty bad, but because they're in the city, people are more used to it.  The rails-to-trails paved trails are where things can get wild because road bikers want to keep hauling at 20-25mph or faster but walkers, joggers, and novice bikers randomly and regularly stop and swerve into the passing lane.  When you're out biking on city streets, you get heckled and told to go bike on the trail, but then when you're on the trail, you get heckled by people for passing them "aggressively". 

Repeatedly you see families and groups taking up the entire trail.  You'd think after the first or second time a road biker yells at them to let them pass they'd get it, but they don't.
Yes, oblivious people sucking up a whole MUT is annoying.  But far worse is the lycra clad Lance wannabee trying to maintain 25mph+ on a crowded MUT on a late Saturday morning and getting all pissy when you don't jump off the path to 'make way'!!  (this goes for ALL users in both directions by the way...Lance has to thread the needle to keep pace !!)

At least the clueless family aren't intentionally being pricks.

I both walk and ride MUTs...and I set my expectations accordingly every time.

This is the reason that I try to avoid bike paths and multi-use paths.  To cycle safely on them you have to be moving at a walking speed, and it's frustrating to have to go that slowly.  Even going very slowly it's kinda dangerous to cycle around people who are walking and not paying attention and people with dogs on long leads.

robartsd

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #170 on: October 10, 2017, 08:49:02 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #171 on: October 10, 2017, 09:02:43 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

I kinda disagree with this.

If I'm blasting along a long stretch of road with a bike lane in it, going the speed of traffic I'll usually stay in the bike lane if one exists.  You do have to be very aware of vehicles up ahead that can potentially cut you off, are parked in the bike lane, or might pull out of intersections.

There are some areas where I think that bike lanes are set up in a dangerous fashion, and I'll avoid them.  This is a pretty rare occurrence around here though (although we don't really have great continuity of bike lanes anyway, so a large part of my riding takes place on the road).

RidetheRain

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #172 on: October 10, 2017, 10:03:56 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

I kinda disagree with this.

If I'm blasting along a long stretch of road with a bike lane in it, going the speed of traffic I'll usually stay in the bike lane if one exists.  You do have to be very aware of vehicles up ahead that can potentially cut you off, are parked in the bike lane, or might pull out of intersections.

There are some areas where I think that bike lanes are set up in a dangerous fashion, and I'll avoid them.  This is a pretty rare occurrence around here though (although we don't really have great continuity of bike lanes anyway, so a large part of my riding takes place on the road).

I skip a lot of the bike lanes in my area because a lot of them have been destroyed when they fixed potholes in the main road. So I'll have a good two-inch gap in the middle of the bike lane and a quick downward sloop into the curb. I've gotten hurt that way a lot.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #173 on: October 10, 2017, 10:09:18 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

I kinda disagree with this.

If I'm blasting along a long stretch of road with a bike lane in it, going the speed of traffic I'll usually stay in the bike lane if one exists.  You do have to be very aware of vehicles up ahead that can potentially cut you off, are parked in the bike lane, or might pull out of intersections.

There are some areas where I think that bike lanes are set up in a dangerous fashion, and I'll avoid them.  This is a pretty rare occurrence around here though (although we don't really have great continuity of bike lanes anyway, so a large part of my riding takes place on the road).

I skip a lot of the bike lanes in my area because a lot of them have been destroyed when they fixed potholes in the main road. So I'll have a good two-inch gap in the middle of the bike lane and a quick downward sloop into the curb. I've gotten hurt that way a lot.

They're not so bad around here, that does sound dangerous.  In the winter, snow isn't cleared from our bike lanes at all.  That means that they get covered with slush and snow which freezes into slippery ice overnight . . . which drives me out of them for much of the winter.

RidetheRain

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #174 on: October 10, 2017, 10:11:44 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

I kinda disagree with this.

If I'm blasting along a long stretch of road with a bike lane in it, going the speed of traffic I'll usually stay in the bike lane if one exists.  You do have to be very aware of vehicles up ahead that can potentially cut you off, are parked in the bike lane, or might pull out of intersections.

There are some areas where I think that bike lanes are set up in a dangerous fashion, and I'll avoid them.  This is a pretty rare occurrence around here though (although we don't really have great continuity of bike lanes anyway, so a large part of my riding takes place on the road).

I skip a lot of the bike lanes in my area because a lot of them have been destroyed when they fixed potholes in the main road. So I'll have a good two-inch gap in the middle of the bike lane and a quick downward sloop into the curb. I've gotten hurt that way a lot.

They're not so bad around here, that does sound dangerous.  In the winter, snow isn't cleared from our bike lanes at all.  That means that they get covered with slush and snow which freezes into slippery ice overnight . . . which drives me out of them for much of the winter.

I'm glad it doesn't snow here, I might wuss out :) I ride with a fat-tired bike so it can handle most of the ugly roads. My nice, easy-to-ride road bike was sold after I realized that efficiency doesn't matter if you're eating concrete.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #175 on: October 10, 2017, 10:27:38 AM »
Most of the people who have gotten seriously injured (that I know, so of course it's anecdotal), are very fast.  They are the 25-30 mph people, so pretty much going the speed of car traffic on the city streets.
If you're on a bike but traveling the speed of car traffic, take a car traffic lane even if a bike lane is available. If you're traveling faster than a slow jog, don't ride on a sidewalk.

I kinda disagree with this.

If I'm blasting along a long stretch of road with a bike lane in it, going the speed of traffic I'll usually stay in the bike lane if one exists.  You do have to be very aware of vehicles up ahead that can potentially cut you off, are parked in the bike lane, or might pull out of intersections.

There are some areas where I think that bike lanes are set up in a dangerous fashion, and I'll avoid them.  This is a pretty rare occurrence around here though (although we don't really have great continuity of bike lanes anyway, so a large part of my riding takes place on the road).

I skip a lot of the bike lanes in my area because a lot of them have been destroyed when they fixed potholes in the main road. So I'll have a good two-inch gap in the middle of the bike lane and a quick downward sloop into the curb. I've gotten hurt that way a lot.

They're not so bad around here, that does sound dangerous.  In the winter, snow isn't cleared from our bike lanes at all.  That means that they get covered with slush and snow which freezes into slippery ice overnight . . . which drives me out of them for much of the winter.

I'm glad it doesn't snow here, I might wuss out :) I ride with a fat-tired bike so it can handle most of the ugly roads. My nice, easy-to-ride road bike was sold after I realized that efficiency doesn't matter if you're eating concrete.

Your tire makes a huge difference.  I experimented with 25 and 28 mm tires this year on my road bike.  Prognosis:  They feel faster and lighter . . . but holy hell are they ever a rough ride on the roads around here.  Anything over four hours starts to become agony.  I'm going back to 32s (and may even dabble in 35s or 37s in the future).

Slee_stack

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #176 on: October 11, 2017, 03:03:53 PM »
All said and done, biking is indeed dangerous, but perhaps not too dangerous.

Yes, it can be a good financial decision for many, but the more important piece of the decision is how much enjoyment one gets out of it.

In the past I've been fairly averse to riding around my city because of the mediocre infrastructure and overall chaotic traffic.  I had my justification of 'too dangerous' to keep me off the bike.

I've gradually come around in the past year.   I now find my 'fear' or reluctance to ride to have been overtaken by the convenience, freedom, and just plain fun that biking brings.  And so now I ride.

Everyone needs to find their own pros to outweigh their own 'dangerous' cons.


PS - I now have 38C (and fairly smooth/rounded) tires on my city bike.  I don't ride extensive mileage, so durability, grip, and comfort trumps efficiency.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:06:28 PM by Slee_stack »

jmecklenborg

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #177 on: October 11, 2017, 03:37:00 PM »
Your tire makes a huge difference.  I experimented with 25 and 28 mm tires this year on my road bike.  Prognosis:  They feel faster and lighter . . . but holy hell are they ever a rough ride on the roads around here.  Anything over four hours starts to become agony.  I'm going back to 32s (and may even dabble in 35s or 37s in the future).


Many bike commuters have the wrong kinds of bikes and/or poorly maintained bikes.  They want to score style points or foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop.  It's pretty easy to putter around the flatter cities like Detroit or Philadelphia but anything with real hills requires a modern multi-gear bike.  And get the all-weather or armadillo tires. 




robartsd

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #178 on: October 12, 2017, 09:28:33 AM »
Many bike commuters have the wrong kinds of bikes and/or poorly maintained bikes.  They want to score style points or foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop.  It's pretty easy to putter around the flatter cities like Detroit or Philadelphia but anything with real hills requires a modern multi-gear bike.  And get the all-weather or armadillo tires.
I take issue with "foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop" implying that DIY bike maintenance is something to avoid. Sure some people neglect maintenance altogether which is bad, but DIY bike maintenance is fairly accessable. I'm also fine with people using non multi-gear bikes in hilly areas if they want (just be sure to have good brakes for the downhill).

barbaz

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #179 on: October 13, 2017, 01:44:20 AM »
I take issue with "foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop" implying that DIY bike maintenance is something to avoid. Sure some people neglect maintenance altogether which is bad, but DIY bike maintenance is fairly accessable.
The problem with DIY maintenance is that most people plan to do it when they find the time, which is right after never. Or they half-ass it because they want to get done quickly. In these cases, going to a shop is the better solution.

Related to this thread: please make sure you're not this guy https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/spokane-woman-is-standing-up-to-cyclist-who-yelled-hot-pizza-then-smashed-into-her-on-trail/

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #180 on: October 13, 2017, 05:53:04 AM »
I take issue with "foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop" implying that DIY bike maintenance is something to avoid. Sure some people neglect maintenance altogether which is bad, but DIY bike maintenance is fairly accessable.
The problem with DIY maintenance is that most people plan to do it when they find the time, which is right after never. Or they half-ass it because they want to get done quickly. In these cases, going to a shop is the better solution.

Related to this thread: please make sure you're not this guy https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/spokane-woman-is-standing-up-to-cyclist-who-yelled-hot-pizza-then-smashed-into-her-on-trail/

This is the reason that I've got two bikes.  When something is broken and needs a while to fix on one, I ride the other.  If you're depending on a bike as your primary transportation and don't have a bike shop near to you, this seems to be the best way to ensure that you've always got a ride.

jmecklenborg

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #181 on: October 13, 2017, 10:13:47 AM »
^^^^Sorry I wrote that post quickly at work.  What I meant to point out is that a lot of casual riders don't want to invest the money required to get a decent bike (appropriate for their area) that is set up properly.  It's like somebody saying they don't like backpacking after getting blisters from the wrong shoes and socks and getting caught out in bad weather with the wrong gear.  Biking around a flat area of Los Angeles is totally different than biking the steep hills of four-season Pittsburgh. 


marielle

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #182 on: October 13, 2017, 10:22:43 AM »
Well, biking may be forcing me to deal with a toe I broke years ago. I biked more than usual in two days, and afterwards have had foot pain for over a week but only on the foot where my big toe broke (it healed wrong). I should have gone to the doctor when it broke, but I was stupid and didn't really know for sure if it was broken just that I could barely walk. And to be fair I was home for winter break during my first year of college and my parents didn't take me to a hospital either (I definitely couldn't/shouldn't have driven myself).

So biking is dangerous...or the opposite because it's forcing me to deal with issues that will cause problems when I'm older? Hmm...

Just Joe

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #183 on: October 13, 2017, 12:47:49 PM »
I ride an ebike. Sometimes I trade bikes with someone just to let them see what an ebike is like -  you can see the moment when they realize that an ebike turns their childhood toy into a transport tool. We are in a hilly part of the country. Who likes struggling up hills?

Meanwhile their bike is a discount store bike with zero maintenance since it was manufactured and was assembled by somebody at the discount store - for better or worse.

There is a difference between their budget bike and something a few hundred bucks better. Better controls, better drivetrains, and better wheels/axles/bearings.

How many folks are riding bikes with lousy brakes, warped wheels, and drivetrains in need of adjustment/maintenance?

Why not eliminate that set of risks?

How many people ride with earbuds in with very little awareness of the car approaching them from behind?

How many people ride the most direct path from point A to point B when they could explore street combinations that required an extra mile of effort but were safer? An ebike makes this easy b/c the added effort to ride that extra mile is tiny if you want it to be and assuming you have enough battery range to keep it easy.

My safest route is not the most direct one. I added a half mile to my regular route last night coming home from work b/c I discovered it to be far safer to cut through a neighborhood. 

If only we could statistically eliminate the people riding with earbuds, un-maintained bikes, choosing risky routes, and so forth from the discussion - I think it would be easy to see that riding is statistically much safer than it first appears b/c we choose to take a more thoughtful approach to the activity.

The same applies to driving a car, employment, or personal safety. None of those statistical groups are uniform. You might be safer than the average American b/c of where you live. You might never face extended unemployment b/c you are educated, your career field or where you choose to live. Etc.

Just Joe

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #184 on: October 13, 2017, 01:07:12 PM »
Its like the person who survives a mugging. Then you hear the details and you realize their bad luck was actually a series of bad choices that attracted trouble.

They shouldn't have had that bad episode but they were walking alone through a so-so neighborhood, after midnight, dressed nicely (as opposed to someone who lived under a rock), happened to have the nerve to be female at that moment and small of stature, had cash hanging out of their purse, and were drunk.

But, statistically they'll be recorded the same as all the other muggings in that area without contributing causes shared with the rest of us.

Ride your bike. Be careful. Be smarter than the other monkeys riding their bikes.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #185 on: October 13, 2017, 01:48:07 PM »
Well, at least we went several pages without blaming victims.

Just Joe

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #186 on: October 13, 2017, 02:13:24 PM »
Okay - I don't think you liked my comment. I know the world is SUPPOSED to be a certain way but due to human imperfections - isn't it advantageous to be as smart as one can be about their choices?

The metaphorical victim got mugged which is wrong and their attacker is responsible for this. Since we live in an world among imperfect humanity, isn't however the victim also responsible - at least in some small way for their own predicament?

My choice is to minimize risk regardless of what the real conditions of the world. I lock my doors. I go places that are generally thought to be safe. I make sure my brakes and tires are good. I ride unimpaired.

The law says I have the right of way but I see no reason to blindly rely on that. The same law book says I can walk down the street unmolested but I choose to maximize my safety by choosing when/where I do this and to cover myself with clothing while I do that.

Wouldn't it be nice to look at our world and know how many of the people who suffered various accidents were maximizing their safety and how many were not?

If I'm blaming the victim, how do I examine the world around me without doing so?

runbikerun

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2017, 02:50:44 PM »
Okay - I don't think you liked my comment. I know the world is SUPPOSED to be a certain way but due to human imperfections - isn't it advantageous to be as smart as one can be about their choices?

The metaphorical victim got mugged which is wrong and their attacker is responsible for this. Since we live in an world among imperfect humanity, isn't however the victim also responsible - at least in some small way for their own predicament?

My choice is to minimize risk regardless of what the real conditions of the world. I lock my doors. I go places that are generally thought to be safe. I make sure my brakes and tires are good. I ride unimpaired.

The law says I have the right of way but I see no reason to blindly rely on that. The same law book says I can walk down the street unmolested but I choose to maximize my safety by choosing when/where I do this and to cover myself with clothing while I do that.

Wouldn't it be nice to look at our world and know how many of the people who suffered various accidents were maximizing their safety and how many were not?

If I'm blaming the victim, how do I examine the world around me without doing so?

I'm going to come right out and say it: this sounds deeply unpleasant and extremely close to the language I've seen from people seeking to minimise culpability in sexual assault cases.

RidetheRain

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #188 on: October 13, 2017, 04:17:52 PM »
Okay - I don't think you liked my comment. I know the world is SUPPOSED to be a certain way but due to human imperfections - isn't it advantageous to be as smart as one can be about their choices?

The metaphorical victim got mugged which is wrong and their attacker is responsible for this. Since we live in an world among imperfect humanity, isn't however the victim also responsible - at least in some small way for their own predicament?

My choice is to minimize risk regardless of what the real conditions of the world. I lock my doors. I go places that are generally thought to be safe. I make sure my brakes and tires are good. I ride unimpaired.

The law says I have the right of way but I see no reason to blindly rely on that. The same law book says I can walk down the street unmolested but I choose to maximize my safety by choosing when/where I do this and to cover myself with clothing while I do that.

Wouldn't it be nice to look at our world and know how many of the people who suffered various accidents were maximizing their safety and how many were not?

If I'm blaming the victim, how do I examine the world around me without doing so?

I'm going to come right out and say it: this sounds deeply unpleasant and extremely close to the language I've seen from people seeking to minimise culpability in sexual assault cases.

Agreed. As a survivor of assault in broad daylight, I found this language to be troubling as well. Maybe a parallel to a less sensitive scenario than a woman walking alone should have been used. Particularly with the controversy currently in the news. For example, a person leaning on a railing and the railing giving way. Blame can be shared between the leaner and the person responsible for maintenance.
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GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #189 on: October 13, 2017, 09:09:02 PM »
Okay - I don't think you liked my comment. I know the world is SUPPOSED to be a certain way but due to human imperfections - isn't it advantageous to be as smart as one can be about their choices?

The metaphorical victim got mugged which is wrong and their attacker is responsible for this. Since we live in an world among imperfect humanity, isn't however the victim also responsible - at least in some small way for their own predicament?

My choice is to minimize risk regardless of what the real conditions of the world. I lock my doors. I go places that are generally thought to be safe. I make sure my brakes and tires are good. I ride unimpaired.

The law says I have the right of way but I see no reason to blindly rely on that. The same law book says I can walk down the street unmolested but I choose to maximize my safety by choosing when/where I do this and to cover myself with clothing while I do that.

Wouldn't it be nice to look at our world and know how many of the people who suffered various accidents were maximizing their safety and how many were not?

If I'm blaming the victim, how do I examine the world around me without doing so?

I'm going to come right out and say it: this sounds deeply unpleasant and extremely close to the language I've seen from people seeking to minimise culpability in sexual assault cases.

Agreed. As a survivor of assault in broad daylight, I found this language to be troubling as well. Maybe a parallel to a less sensitive scenario than a woman walking alone should have been used. Particularly with the controversy currently in the news. For example, a person leaning on a railing and the railing giving way. Blame can be shared between the leaner and the person responsible for maintenance.

Nope.  Still bullshit.  Railings are designed to be leaned against.  The blame is on the person who didn't maintain the railing properly.

A rape victim isn't asking for it by walking around late at night, a child doesn't deserve to be run over in a crosswalk because he was wearing a black sweater, and a cyclist should not be blamed for following the rules of the damned road.

Yes, wear bright clothing and put lights on your bike.  Wear a helmet.  Pick streets that are safe to cycle on.  These are all good ideas and will likely increase your safety.  But don't pretend that someone who doesn't do these things is somehow responsible for the negligence or purposeful actions of others that lead to tragedy.

Hargrove

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #190 on: October 13, 2017, 09:18:58 PM »
"We should make good choices" is fine and a DIFFERENT point from blaming the victim, which is a gross abandonment of empathy.

There are very few tragic or horrifying situations that get scripted against the victim, which are made all the more shocking because of how frequently assault victims (or I guess bicyclists) get blamed.

"My mom died."
"Holy shit, what was she doing, BICYCLING?"

"My cat got hit by a car."
"Cats gotta pay more attention, bro."

"It turns out my cousin has cancer."
"Man, and he didn't even smoke? Wow, that's weird - bet he ate a lot of nitrates, though."

"My house burnt down."
"Ok but be honest, you were smoking in bed, right?"
"I don't smoke..."
"Oh, well, so you left a candle lit?"
"No...
"Jerry-rigged seatwarmers to your waterbed?"
"Um... my house's wiring caught fire..."
"Ok, but when did you last inspect your wiring?"

COME ON

Just Joe

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #191 on: October 15, 2017, 01:00:25 PM »
I'm an engineer so I look at risk mitigation. If someone is the victim of anything then that's terrible but I want to learn from their misfortune. I want to prevent it from happening to me and I hope they would want too. Part of that is removing some of the risk from their SOP.

If walking home after midnight, alone, tipsy, etc is their SOP then they need to change that behavior if they want to maximize their personal security. If they don't want to do this than that is their choice and I wish them best. We can't rely on the law alone to protect us - certainly in a situation where there isn't anyone present to enforce the law.

We have to protect ourselves using whatever resources we have available. Full application of the law is one tool. So is walking with friends. So on and so forth.

As an engineer I look at my own situation riding a bicycle back and forth to work and know that drivers are distracted, physics are weighted very heavily against me, and to survive I have to make certain choices to maximize my safety. I would like to know (and its likely impossible) what the choices were of the people who bicycle safely.

I also would like to know what the unsafe people are doing so I can avoid those behaviors. YouTube and other similar websites can give a person an idea with all the crash videos. The guy doing 60 mph down a mountain passing cars on a bicycle will eventually be counted as a bicycle crash same as the neighborhood kid whose tires slipped on a bit of sand at 10 mph while doing nothing risky.

There are so many other parts of society that seem much more dangerous than it really is. The shootings any city has? They are often concentrated in certain neighbors and happen at certain hours of the day. Avoid those two factors and anyone can be safer. Vehicle wrecks - there are contributing factors that could have been avoided and that's what I want to learn from.

Call it blaming the victim if you like but I'm not focusing on laying blame on anyone. I'm trying to examine the factors that lead to any negative event so that I can - like a Boy Scout - be prepared. I want to live a smarter life than I would otherwise if I was ignorant of these factors.

Telling me I'm "blaming the victim" is like lecturing me about not being politically correct enough. From my perspective, not examining the contributing factors is just living with one's head stuck in the sand. 

I'm going for a bike ride....

Hargrove

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #192 on: October 15, 2017, 02:10:56 PM »
Quote
Then you hear the details and you realize their bad luck was actually a series of bad choices that attracted trouble.

The formula is simple, which should be easy for an engineer concerned with "risk mitigation" to appreciate.

Trouble has a right to exist in your quote. It simply gets assumed. The variable that needs changing isn't ubiquitous "trouble," it's the victim. You could have argued that cars make these accidents too likely to mitigate well, but not once you made the totally inappropriate assault analogy, different-in-kind because it has active perpetrators intending to do harm rather than drivers who may recklessly but unintentionally get involved in bicycle accidents.

You are correct that making good choices is worthwhile. But if you can't tell the difference between recommending good choices and, instead, talking about the foolishness of assault victims, you will continue to experience a "high risk" of getting called for blaming the victim.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #193 on: October 15, 2017, 05:43:45 PM »
I'm an engineer so I look at risk mitigation. If someone is the victim of anything then that's terrible but I want to learn from their misfortune. I want to prevent it from happening to me and I hope they would want too. Part of that is removing some of the risk from their SOP.

If walking home after midnight, alone, tipsy, etc is their SOP then they need to change that behavior if they want to maximize their personal security. If they don't want to do this than that is their choice and I wish them best. We can't rely on the law alone to protect us - certainly in a situation where there isn't anyone present to enforce the law.

We have to protect ourselves using whatever resources we have available. Full application of the law is one tool. So is walking with friends. So on and so forth.

As an engineer I look at my own situation riding a bicycle back and forth to work and know that drivers are distracted, physics are weighted very heavily against me, and to survive I have to make certain choices to maximize my safety. I would like to know (and its likely impossible) what the choices were of the people who bicycle safely.

I also would like to know what the unsafe people are doing so I can avoid those behaviors. YouTube and other similar websites can give a person an idea with all the crash videos. The guy doing 60 mph down a mountain passing cars on a bicycle will eventually be counted as a bicycle crash same as the neighborhood kid whose tires slipped on a bit of sand at 10 mph while doing nothing risky.

There are so many other parts of society that seem much more dangerous than it really is. The shootings any city has? They are often concentrated in certain neighbors and happen at certain hours of the day. Avoid those two factors and anyone can be safer. Vehicle wrecks - there are contributing factors that could have been avoided and that's what I want to learn from.

Call it blaming the victim if you like but I'm not focusing on laying blame on anyone. I'm trying to examine the factors that lead to any negative event so that I can - like a Boy Scout - be prepared. I want to live a smarter life than I would otherwise if I was ignorant of these factors.

Telling me I'm "blaming the victim" is like lecturing me about not being politically correct enough. From my perspective, not examining the contributing factors is just living with one's head stuck in the sand. 

I'm going for a bike ride....

Nobody in this thread has suggested that there's no need to examine the contributing factors in cycling safety (quite the opposite actually).  Nobody has argued that you shouldn't try to slant the odds in your favour.  It's certainly true that you can do things that will make you statistically safer for any activity.  Those are all legitimate points and arguments.

People are taking offense when you target victims for blame in posts like these:
Quote
isn't however the victim also responsible - at least in some small way for their own predicament?

Quote
Its like the person who survives a mugging. Then you hear the details and you realize their bad luck was actually a series of bad choices that attracted trouble.

They shouldn't have had that bad episode but they were walking alone through a so-so neighborhood, after midnight, dressed nicely (as opposed to someone who lived under a rock), happened to have the nerve to be female at that moment and small of stature, had cash hanging out of their purse, and were drunk.

These types of arguments shift blame and responsibility from the person breaking the law to the victim.  This reasoning empowers all wrongdoers, from rapists (she was wearing a short skirt, so she clearly wanted it) to negligent drivers (if that cyclist just had another couple strobing lights I would have looked up from my game of candy crush).  That's not a group that you want to be giving excuses to and shifting blame from.  They are 100% responsible for the crimes that they commit.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 10:32:19 AM by GuitarStv »

infogoon

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2017, 09:41:25 AM »
I take issue with "foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop" implying that DIY bike maintenance is something to avoid. Sure some people neglect maintenance altogether which is bad, but DIY bike maintenance is fairly accessable.
The problem with DIY maintenance is that most people plan to do it when they find the time, which is right after never. Or they half-ass it because they want to get done quickly. In these cases, going to a shop is the better solution.

Related to this thread: please make sure you're not this guy https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/spokane-woman-is-standing-up-to-cyclist-who-yelled-hot-pizza-then-smashed-into-her-on-trail/

From the article:

Haller said he calls it a good day when he makes it home without an accident. “I’ve broken 25 bones,” he said. “When I lived in L.A., a doctor asked me if I was a stunt man.”

Christ, what an asshole this guy is.

GuitarStv

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #195 on: October 16, 2017, 10:04:03 AM »
I take issue with "foolishly cheap out by not having a bike fixed up by a shop" implying that DIY bike maintenance is something to avoid. Sure some people neglect maintenance altogether which is bad, but DIY bike maintenance is fairly accessable.
The problem with DIY maintenance is that most people plan to do it when they find the time, which is right after never. Or they half-ass it because they want to get done quickly. In these cases, going to a shop is the better solution.

Related to this thread: please make sure you're not this guy https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/spokane-woman-is-standing-up-to-cyclist-who-yelled-hot-pizza-then-smashed-into-her-on-trail/

From the article:

Haller said he calls it a good day when he makes it home without an accident. “I’ve broken 25 bones,” he said. “When I lived in L.A., a doctor asked me if I was a stunt man.”

Christ, what an asshole this guy is.

Agreed, the guy is a giant asshole.  Here's hoping that her lawsuit against him is successful.

It's interesting to see how differently the conversation goes when we change who's involved in an accident.  We have a woman who is walking in an area that she describes as dangerous because of cyclists ("Pearsall said she’s talked to walkers who have had close calls with bicyclists and even runners on the Centennial Trail.").  Yet nobody here has said that she bears responsibility for putting herself in such a dangerous situation.  Nobody has suggested that she should bear responsibility because she wasn't wearing a helmet, blinking lights, or a neon jacket.  Nobody has suggested that the accident was her fault when she failed to jump off the path that she's legally entitled to walk on, where she has right of way.

Look at how different the reaction and tone from everyone is when compared to the cycling accidents we've been discussing . . . even though the story of an aggressive/inattentive road user who doesn't care who is hurt by his actions and causes a crash is an overwhelmingly common one while cycling.

robartsd

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #196 on: October 16, 2017, 10:23:31 AM »
The useful part of Just Joe's posts is that we have some ablity to mitigate risks, so even statistics about how risky an activity like cycling is on average do not necissarily represent our personal risks while cycling. It's reall the same message many of the cycling advocates here have been promoting (learn and use appropriate safety methods), albeit with a very flawed rhetoric.

Just Joe

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #197 on: October 16, 2017, 11:53:56 AM »
I specialize in flawed rhetoric... ;)

ACyclist

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #198 on: October 31, 2017, 06:52:25 AM »
I've been biking to work for about a decade.  I've never been hit.  I have crashed and required hospital attention, once.  This was my own caused accident.  I'm  mountain biker, and often ride a little too fast. 

This good record is due to the fact of living in a rural area that is fairly bike friendly.  I have a protected bike path, and I also employ side streets to work.  We live 2.5 miles from work via residential roads or bike path depending on my mood.

LadyDividend

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Re: Biking is dangerous
« Reply #199 on: October 31, 2017, 11:58:18 AM »
I've biking in Toronto for 10 years. In that time, cycling in the city has become much safer, not only because there are more bike lanes but because more cyclists are out there and drivers have learned to be careful.

That being said, I live in the outskirts where a lot of drivers don't know how to maneuver around bikes. I could get hit, but that risk runs with a car or bus too. I like to think that my happiness is worth continuing cycling, and I can encourage others to bike as well, just by seeing me on the road. Don't quit!
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