Author Topic: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?  (Read 25378 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #200 on: June 19, 2018, 11:02:52 AM »
Skirts and fit - not everyone will have the same length from waist to widest part of hip - so a skirt may ride up, or the waist may not sit at the right spot for the hips to fit.  Or a skirt's  waist may be too large/small relative to hips, compared  to an actual real body.  Same with dresses - I almost never wear dresses, because I am long in the torso, and a dress waist that should be at my waist will be sitting on my ribs.  It makes bathing suits hard to fit as well, I have totally given up on one-piece suits.

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #201 on: June 19, 2018, 11:14:53 AM »
Zikoris and rdaneel0, maybe instead of assuming all the other women who are talking about differences in their experience based on gender are wrong or lying, maybe you could just feel gratitude that you don't experience them.

For instance, I am a rich white American woman who is tall and large and confident and educated. Even though I do experience gender and size discrimination in some ways, I also have plenty of power in other ways, which means that there are a lot of examples of smaller, poorer, less-educated, non-white women experiencing gender discrimination that I don't personally experience. But that doesn't mean they don't happen to anyone, just that they don't happen to me. I would suggest that it's the same in your case.

Woah, I didn't say anyone was lying! I don't know why anyone would lie about something like this, seems like a weird con. I do feel like I live in an alternate world sometimes because my experiences seem to be highly atypical in many areas, but I don't see how that equates to me assuming women are wrong or lying.

I think this forum is all about different people sharing their experiences, giving possible tips/recommendations for better outcomes, debating approaches, questioning things, expressing surprise at other's priorities/resources, etc. I don't think every recommendation or tip works for every person, but I also don't think that's a reason to stop sharing alternative perspectives/tips.

For me, not using a clothes dryer and shopping quality fabrics and trusted brands works well most of the time. Plenty of people toss everything in the dryer and never look at fabric type when they shop, so that's an easy tip that *may* work for some, and that many people probably don't know. I was also pointing out that it's interesting that two of the women who don't experience this clothing issue both do some of the same things. I also acknowledged that size may be a factor I hadn't considered before, mentioned that I had seen clothing quality decline overall, and that I also experienced the absurdly irregular sizing standards.

I'm not sure why on top of this, in this context, I need to expressly state my gratitude that I don't have an issue with my clothing wearing out too quickly. I can't help but feel that if this were about a non-gendered area of optimization the way I stated my opinion wouldn't be given a second thought.

dividend

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #202 on: June 19, 2018, 11:28:32 AM »
(And if anyone wants to come back with a snarky statement like "Well you should just lose weight then," let me invite you to please go fuck yourself. There is no proven protocol for losing weight and fat people also need to be clothed.)

I agree with you that everyone should be able to find clothes that fit on their body, but come on with this fat-logic.  Losing weight isn't easy, but it is simple - take in less energy than you expend.  It doesn't necessarily make things less expensive though - it's easier to want to spend more once you start looking good in clothes. 

pachnik

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #203 on: June 19, 2018, 11:49:03 AM »
I also don't have problems with clothing falling apart or wearing out quickly.  I don't buy much new since i usually shop at Value Village so not sure how old some stuff is.

However, my work place is casual so I can wear jeans and t-shirts.  My fabric of choice is 100% cotton.  It is a pretty hard-wearing cloth.  Also, like previous posters, I always line dry t-shirts and other tops.  And line-dry jeans in the warm months.  But during the cold months, I put jeans in the dryer.    And I wear things a few times before washing them. 

To me, it makes sense that the flimsier stuff would tear more easily. 

MrMoogle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #204 on: June 19, 2018, 12:04:11 PM »
The other thing is women generally wear clothes that hug their body.  I'm sure this is more strenuous than loose fitting clothes that I wear.  I've never had to squeeze into a pair of jeans for example.

(And if anyone wants to come back with a snarky statement like "Well you should just lose weight then," let me invite you to please go fuck yourself. There is no proven protocol for losing weight and fat people also need to be clothed.)

I agree with you that everyone should be able to find clothes that fit on their body, but come on with this fat-logic.  Losing weight isn't easy, but it is simple - take in less energy than you expend.  It doesn't necessarily make things less expensive though - it's easier to want to spend more once you start looking good in clothes. 
Yes, just eat less energy than you expend.  The problem is the how you do that.  The low carb diets are really efficient at weight loss, but carbs also affect your mood:
https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/how-food-affects-your-moods#1

Some people are more susceptible than others.  Personally, the easiest way for me to lose weight is for me to out exercise my food intake, but to generally keep the carbs, proteins, and fats, just relatively healthy versions, and maybe slightly increase them.  Of course that only works if I'm healthy enough for exercise.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #205 on: June 19, 2018, 12:17:48 PM »
I have also grown and my body shape has changed over time, and that means buying new clothes, or old ones wear out in weird spots. I don't know if it has come up in this thread yet, but my biggest issue with pants is finding ones that fit both hips and waist, and that won't wear out in the crotch.

Yes. The crotch is always the first to go for me, too, and if it's the fabric that wears through, it's almost impossible to patch in a way that looks presentable. Seems like someone should have come up with a solution for this by now! Maybe my next business :D

You can try applying seam tape on the inside of the seam that needs repair. We have done that to one of my hiking trousers. By the way, these trousers are homemade by DH, from a solid fabric. Still, there are folds in the thigh area that rub together and that got damaged extremely quickly. I think the cause was twofold. The trousers are a little wide so there are unnecessary folds. And the fabric is so stiff that it doesn't fall very smoothly there. My old similar hiking trousers made from the same pattern, but a slightly smoother fabric, many years ago, lasted for 10 years of intensive use. Now the place where my backpack touches my lower back is almost worn through. Therefore the replacement.

madgeylou

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #206 on: June 19, 2018, 12:18:45 PM »
(And if anyone wants to come back with a snarky statement like "Well you should just lose weight then," let me invite you to please go fuck yourself. There is no proven protocol for losing weight and fat people also need to be clothed.)

I agree with you that everyone should be able to find clothes that fit on their body, but come on with this fat-logic.  Losing weight isn't easy, but it is simple - take in less energy than you expend.  It doesn't necessarily make things less expensive though - it's easier to want to spend more once you start looking good in clothes.

The thermodynamics of weight loss may seem simple to you, but the fact remains that if there were a reliable protocol for losing weight and keeping it off, then we wouldn't have ~95% of people failing to lose and keep weight off

And if there were any other set of medical advice with a 95% failure rate, one would think that the folks offering the advice would begin to think "Hmm, maybe we don't understand this quite as well as we thought." But no, still everyone thinks they know everything about this topic that there is actual very little scientific understanding of.

But this is off topic so I will let it rest there with an exhortation to please educate yourself before spouting nonsense like this.

This goes for @MrMoogle too.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 12:20:55 PM by madgeylou »

madgeylou

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #207 on: June 19, 2018, 12:19:54 PM »
I have also grown and my body shape has changed over time, and that means buying new clothes, or old ones wear out in weird spots. I don't know if it has come up in this thread yet, but my biggest issue with pants is finding ones that fit both hips and waist, and that won't wear out in the crotch.

Yes. The crotch is always the first to go for me, too, and if it's the fabric that wears through, it's almost impossible to patch in a way that looks presentable. Seems like someone should have come up with a solution for this by now! Maybe my next business :D

You can try applying seam tape on the inside of the seam that needs repair. We have done that to one of my hiking trousers.

Normally for me it's not the seam that goes, it's the fabric itself that gets worn through. I'm not sure this trick works in that case ...

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #208 on: June 19, 2018, 12:34:30 PM »
The other thing is women generally wear clothes that hug their body.  I'm sure this is more strenuous than loose fitting clothes that I wear.  I've never had to squeeze into a pair of jeans for example.

Yeah, and this also means replacement is required more frequently. It noticeably changes the fit if I gain or lose a little weight. It seems men's clothing hides changes more. Not if you're a guy into skinny jeans and super tailored suits, of course.

dividend

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #209 on: June 19, 2018, 12:57:46 PM »
(And if anyone wants to come back with a snarky statement like "Well you should just lose weight then," let me invite you to please go fuck yourself. There is no proven protocol for losing weight and fat people also need to be clothed.)

I agree with you that everyone should be able to find clothes that fit on their body, but come on with this fat-logic.  Losing weight isn't easy, but it is simple - take in less energy than you expend.  It doesn't necessarily make things less expensive though - it's easier to want to spend more once you start looking good in clothes.

The thermodynamics of weight loss may seem simple to you, but the fact remains that if there were a reliable protocol for losing weight and keeping it off, then we wouldn't have ~95% of people failing to lose and keep weight off

And if there were any other set of medical advice with a 95% failure rate, one would think that the folks offering the advice would begin to think "Hmm, maybe we don't understand this quite as well as we thought." But no, still everyone thinks they know everything about this topic that there is actual very little scientific understanding of.

But this is off topic so I will let it rest there with an exhortation to please educate yourself before spouting nonsense like this.

This goes for @MrMoogle too.

You're conflating people not being able to do something that can be pretty hard with not understanding how it works.   It's complicated to figure out exactly what your TDEE is.  It's very hard in some cases to reduce calorie consumption, especially if you're short and/or female.  But there's no mystery to it.  There really isn't.  There's no magic reason why some people are thin, and I hate this nonsense being espoused on a forum created around doing something most of the population isn't going to do, even though we can tell them how.  Would you tell someone who was trying to FIRE that there's no point since 95% of the population can't do it?  In both cases, success results from personal choices and priorities, not some random magical unknowable force that keeps people fat, or slaves to their jobs.  I'd rather see you looking for help and encouragement than saying fuck you to anyone who implies that your situation isn't hopeless, because I've seen so many people close to me lose weight, and seen the dramatic improvements in their quality of life.  Please don't spew defeatist bullshit like this.  Please.  It doesn't help your own situation, and it might discourage others from trying.  If my husband had read enough posts like yours and took them to heart before he figured out how to tackle the very simple, yet very difficult task of losing 150 lbs, he'd probably be dead. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #210 on: June 19, 2018, 11:59:00 PM »
I also don't have this problem, or at least not to the extent it's described here. Sure I've had a cheap H&M top losing its color after a few washings, but that's about how bad it got. Now I also rarely/never buy high-end stuff so no clue about the quality of that.

I have to admit that I only have 1 dress with a zipper though. And it's a zipper with relatively big teeth so probably more durable. I honestly don't know why I would want to buy things with those tiny zippers - they're annoying even if they don't break!

Apart from the zipper problem, what else falls apart easily?

Office shoes, if you actually walk in them at least a couple miles a day. Panythose falls apart if you look at it the wrong way. The first thing to go on cheap jeans is either the belt loops or the inside of the thighs. Then of course there are the socks that keep disappearing for both men and women... oops that's another thread. Buttons and eyelets are easy to reattach when they fall off, but zippers are a pain. Then of course there's all the (expletive deleted) knitwear that starts to ravel and run around every major seam and also where the tag is attached.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #211 on: June 20, 2018, 12:22:20 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

littlelykke

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #212 on: June 20, 2018, 05:32:46 AM »
I have also grown and my body shape has changed over time, and that means buying new clothes, or old ones wear out in weird spots. I don't know if it has come up in this thread yet, but my biggest issue with pants is finding ones that fit both hips and waist, and that won't wear out in the crotch.

Yes. The crotch is always the first to go for me, too, and if it's the fabric that wears through, it's almost impossible to patch in a way that looks presentable. Seems like someone should have come up with a solution for this by now! Maybe my next business :D

You can try applying seam tape on the inside of the seam that needs repair. We have done that to one of my hiking trousers.

Normally for me it's not the seam that goes, it's the fabric itself that gets worn through. I'm not sure this trick works in that case ...
I have this same problem. But, I found a really helpful trick to make my jeans last longer after they've ripped. I do this: https://www.goheendesigns.com/blog/invisible-denim-repair
It makes my jeans last twice as long. Usually they get torn after about 3 months of intensive wear and this costs 5 minutes to fix. Then I can wear them again for another month or two. Until I have to patch too much, only then I'll replace them.
Hopefully this works for you as well :)

Hirondelle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #213 on: June 20, 2018, 05:39:37 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)

PoutineLover

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #214 on: June 20, 2018, 06:07:04 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Polaria

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #215 on: June 20, 2018, 06:58:59 AM »
The thermodynamics of weight loss may seem simple to you, but the fact remains that if there were a reliable protocol for losing weight and keeping it off, then we wouldn't have ~95% of people failing to lose and keep weight off

And if there were any other set of medical advice with a 95% failure rate, one would think that the folks offering the advice would begin to think "Hmm, maybe we don't understand this quite as well as we thought." But no, still everyone thinks they know everything about this topic that there is actual very little scientific understanding of.

But this is off topic so I will let it rest there with an exhortation to please educate yourself before spouting nonsense like this.

This goes for @MrMoogle too.

You're conflating people not being able to do something that can be pretty hard with not understanding how it works.   It's complicated to figure out exactly what your TDEE is.  It's very hard in some cases to reduce calorie consumption, especially if you're short and/or female.  But there's no mystery to it.  There really isn't.  There's no magic reason why some people are thin, and I hate this nonsense being espoused on a forum created around doing something most of the population isn't going to do, even though we can tell them how.  Would you tell someone who was trying to FIRE that there's no point since 95% of the population can't do it?  In both cases, success results from personal choices and priorities, not some random magical unknowable force that keeps people fat, or slaves to their jobs.  I'd rather see you looking for help and encouragement than saying fuck you to anyone who implies that your situation isn't hopeless, because I've seen so many people close to me lose weight, and seen the dramatic improvements in their quality of life.  Please don't spew defeatist bullshit like this.  Please.  It doesn't help your own situation, and it might discourage others from trying.  If my husband had read enough posts like yours and took them to heart before he figured out how to tackle the very simple, yet very difficult task of losing 150 lbs, he'd probably be dead.

I mostly agree with you Dividend, but it must be said that the human body is very keen and resourceful at keeping its fat. You have to find a way to lose the fat without triggering any kind of response to a perceived famine threat, which means losing weight very slowly and not going into punitive diet mode. Some medicines are also well known to cause fat gain.

I lost 40 kg and have been keeping the weight off for more than a decade. I was a morbidly obese from ages 8 to 21 (I let you imagine the joy of being publicly mocked, bullied, yelled at over all those years). Everyone told me during that time I'd stay morbidly obese all my life. Yet here I am wearing a medium to large size now.

It is no easy process, but it is not impossible.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #216 on: June 20, 2018, 07:21:40 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Free ourselves from the tyranny of the blade!

I lost a razor on a trip two years ago and basically stopped bothering to shave my legs after that. I exclusively wear skirts, dresses, and running shorts. I notice people noticing it sometimes, and I probably would start again if I lived or worked in a conservative environment. My last office was borderline, but I didn't care about promotions. I figured nobody would dare fire me for it, so eff it.

It limits my dating prospects a bit, but I prefer more open minded people anyway.

Hirondelle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #217 on: June 20, 2018, 07:24:21 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Free ourselves from the tyranny of the blade!

I lost a razor on a trip two years ago and basically stopped bothering to shave my legs after that. I exclusively wear skirts, dresses, and running shorts. I notice people noticing it sometimes, and I probably would start again if I lived or worked in a conservative environment. My last office was borderline, but I didn't care about promotions. I figured nobody would dare fire me for it, so eff it.

It limits my dating prospects a bit, but I prefer more open minded people anyway.

My ex-boyfriend said: "You don't shave your legs, but the hairs are so soft that I don't even feel it so actually it doesn't matter!!"

Take home message for me: guys mostly care about the rough feeling of stubbles. Softish hair doesn't matter. Win!

GuitarStv

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #218 on: June 20, 2018, 07:29:27 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

I'm a fairly hairy guy, and have found that 10 - 15 minutes of shaving my legs each week is enough to keep them hair free during the summer.  It's significantly less work than shaving my face.  :P

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #219 on: June 20, 2018, 07:58:02 AM »
Guitars TV, I would have a large, terrible beard if I were a dude. Shaving is so boring. I remember legs taking me longer, though, unless I just did the calves.

So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Free ourselves from the tyranny of the blade!

I lost a razor on a trip two years ago and basically stopped bothering to shave my legs after that. I exclusively wear skirts, dresses, and running shorts. I notice people noticing it sometimes, and I probably would start again if I lived or worked in a conservative environment. My last office was borderline, but I didn't care about promotions. I figured nobody would dare fire me for it, so eff it.

It limits my dating prospects a bit, but I prefer more open minded people anyway.

My ex-boyfriend said: "You don't shave your legs, but the hairs are so soft that I don't even feel it so actually it doesn't matter!!"

Take home message for me: guys mostly care about the rough feeling of stubbles. Softish hair doesn't matter. Win!

Some people care. OKC questions let me know who I shouldn't bother meeting. Some people are into it. What cracks me up is the people who don't notice until after we've hung out multiple times. I sat next to you in a park with my legs out in front of me, AND I slept over, how did you never notice?

Also entertaining: the guy who tried to bang me on a park bench on our first date and said mid-makeout, "I like you, but if you really want to turn me on, you'd shave your legs."

I don't think I have a problem turning you on, buddy. This bench is forever scarred.

And of course did he ever think that I might prefer his legs shaved?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 08:03:40 AM by MonkeyJenga »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #220 on: June 20, 2018, 08:00:11 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

Chris22

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #221 on: June 20, 2018, 08:06:05 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

TIL that sitting in my office chair working on spreadsheets, etc, as well as going to the occasional meeting is not "real work" and I shouldn't expect to get paid like the guys in the factory next door that I help oversee. 

Got it. 

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #222 on: June 20, 2018, 08:10:12 AM »
People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does.

Daaamn. I get paid plenty in dresses and I almost never preen. Of course certain industries are less amenable to this, but are you seriously saying everyone wearing a skirt or dress is just looking for attention and lounges around all day flipping their hair?

It is a strange time when I am in agreement with Chris22...

GuitarStv

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #223 on: June 20, 2018, 08:19:09 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

It can't be as useless as you make it out to be.  Wasn't the kilt worn by Scots while lifting, carrying, climbing, riding horses, etc. in the 1700s?

index

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #224 on: June 20, 2018, 08:52:12 AM »
I would agree with the article that most women spend $250+ more on appearance every month than men. Women are definitely expected to wear a more varied wardrobe and cosmetics are considerably more expensive.

I think on a whole, quality mens clothing is more expensive for like garments like pants, dress shirts, etc. The variety is what makes women's wardrobes more expensive by adding dresses, tanks, cardigans etc. Men can get away with pants, button down shirt, sport coat, and nice shoes in some combination every day while women can't. 

That said, being expected to wear a more varied wardrobe cuts both ways. Men have to wear the same thing (pants, dress shoes, long sleeve shirt, sport coat) minus and overcoat whether it is below freezing or 100+ out. I would kill to wear shorts, sandals, and a sleeveless shirt in the summer!   

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #225 on: June 20, 2018, 09:03:53 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

It can't be as useless as you make it out to be.  Wasn't the kilt worn by Scots while lifting, carrying, climbing, riding horses, etc. in the 1700s?

Skirts are identified in Western society as female only.  (except kilts of course)   Pant until recently were male-only - my mother told me how scandalized her father  was when she, an adult woman in her 20's, wore slacks.  Skirts definitely hinder movement, so in an environment where a person needs to be able to move and do things, pants are much more preferable.  In an office environment women's skirts and men's suits both limit movement - would a man in a good suit want to get on his knees to crawl around, and ruin his trousers?  Would a woman in a skirt want to get down and do the same thing and hurt her knees (or ruin her expensive pantyhose) and also potentially reveal more of her body than she wants to?   Skirts also limit girls - a boy can play in his pants or shorts, a girl in a skirt is not going to be on the monkey bars or doing somersaults or handstands.

One advantage of skirts (not full-length) is that loose ones are cooler in summer.  Of course they are also colder in winter.  When my high school uniform was a skirt and blazer, and I walked to school, I wore snow pants under my skirt.  So fun getting those off at school, in front of my locker, in company with all the other girls who were in the same circumstances.

PS Index, pantyhose are the invention of the devil when it is hot and humid.  Horrible horrible things.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #226 on: June 20, 2018, 11:36:18 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Free ourselves from the tyranny of the blade!

I lost a razor on a trip two years ago and basically stopped bothering to shave my legs after that. I exclusively wear skirts, dresses, and running shorts. I notice people noticing it sometimes, and I probably would start again if I lived or worked in a conservative environment. My last office was borderline, but I didn't care about promotions. I figured nobody would dare fire me for it, so eff it.

It limits my dating prospects a bit, but I prefer more open minded people anyway.

My ex-boyfriend said: "You don't shave your legs, but the hairs are so soft that I don't even feel it so actually it doesn't matter!!"

Take home message for me: guys mostly care about the rough feeling of stubbles. Softish hair doesn't matter. Win!

Last month as the first time in several decades that I spent some days in shortsin public with hairy (blond) legs. I don't think anyone noticed, except for myself. I have learned from childhood that shaving legs was normal. My MIL once told me she didn't know at all that women did that. She thought leg shaving was something only cycling men did.
As I think shaving once a week is too much work, I don't bother wearing skirts.
I guess that at work or at a party I would feel uncomfortable having visible hairy legs, but in private, during sports it's okay.

OtherJen

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #227 on: June 20, 2018, 12:18:39 PM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

I don't wear skirts. Skirts show your lower legs. You need either a tanned skin + shaved legs or thin panties + shaved legs or thick panties. My lower legs never get a tan, no matter whether I lay in the sun or not, which I don't do often. Shaving legs regularly is a lot of work. Thin panties are a PITA. I always need to bring an extra pair in a handbag in case of tearing and often need it at an inconvenient moment. Thick panties are not pretty under all shirts and is more a winter thing. Although winters here are so cold, that I wouldn't wear a dress outside anyway. Trousers are a lot warmer.

Shaving legs isn't obligatory!

Signed: A pale person who went to work in skirts with unshaven legs for 4 months out of laziness.
(I do have brownish leg hair and it's a loooot)
Yup, definitely not obligatory. I haven't shaved my legs in years, and I often wear outfits that expose all my hairiness to the world. No complaints so far, some people mention it but no one has been rude about it. My hair is moderately dark, but I think it may also be easier for me to get away with it because of the environment I work in. Honestly it's one of the best decisions I've made.

Free ourselves from the tyranny of the blade!

I lost a razor on a trip two years ago and basically stopped bothering to shave my legs after that. I exclusively wear skirts, dresses, and running shorts. I notice people noticing it sometimes, and I probably would start again if I lived or worked in a conservative environment. My last office was borderline, but I didn't care about promotions. I figured nobody would dare fire me for it, so eff it.

It limits my dating prospects a bit, but I prefer more open minded people anyway.

My ex-boyfriend said: "You don't shave your legs, but the hairs are so soft that I don't even feel it so actually it doesn't matter!!"

Take home message for me: guys mostly care about the rough feeling of stubbles. Softish hair doesn't matter. Win!

Last month as the first time in several decades that I spent some days in shortsin public with hairy (blond) legs. I don't think anyone noticed, except for myself. I have learned from childhood that shaving legs was normal. My MIL once told me she didn't know at all that women did that. She thought leg shaving was something only cycling men did.
As I think shaving once a week is too much work, I don't bother wearing skirts.
I guess that at work or at a party I would feel uncomfortable having visible hairy legs, but in private, during sports it's okay.

Yeah, it's definitely a cultural thing. I was given a razor when I was 11 and basically shamed into using it by my mother (it didn't help that my Catholic school uniform was a skirt and both the other girls and boys used visible leg hair as one of many targets for bullying).

Chraurelius

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #228 on: June 20, 2018, 02:58:42 PM »
I'm surprised it's only a quarter million more.  What do men even spend money on? Soap, deodorant, shaving gear, hair cuts and hair products ... sturdy, well made clothes and shoes that go out of fashion slowly ... a watch ... maybe cologne?  Or am I just totally out of it?

GuitarStv

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #229 on: June 20, 2018, 06:00:17 PM »
I'm surprised it's only a quarter million more.  What do men even spend money on? Soap, deodorant, shaving gear, hair cuts and hair products ... sturdy, well made clothes and shoes that go out of fashion slowly ... a watch ... maybe cologne?  Or am I just totally out of it?

Nobody wears a watch any more, and most of the guys I know cut their own hair.  To shave my face (and legs in the summer) works out to about five dollars a year using safety razors.

:P

gaja

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2018, 06:13:01 PM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

It can't be as useless as you make it out to be.  Wasn't the kilt worn by Scots while lifting, carrying, climbing, riding horses, etc. in the 1700s?

Skirts are identified in Western society as female only.  (except kilts of course)   Pant until recently were male-only - my mother told me how scandalized her father  was when she, an adult woman in her 20's, wore slacks.  Skirts definitely hinder movement, so in an environment where a person needs to be able to move and do things, pants are much more preferable.  In an office environment women's skirts and men's suits both limit movement - would a man in a good suit want to get on his knees to crawl around, and ruin his trousers?  Would a woman in a skirt want to get down and do the same thing and hurt her knees (or ruin her expensive pantyhose) and also potentially reveal more of her body than she wants to?   Skirts also limit girls - a boy can play in his pants or shorts, a girl in a skirt is not going to be on the monkey bars or doing somersaults or handstands.

One advantage of skirts (not full-length) is that loose ones are cooler in summer.  Of course they are also colder in winter.  When my high school uniform was a skirt and blazer, and I walked to school, I wore snow pants under my skirt.  So fun getting those off at school, in front of my locker, in company with all the other girls who were in the same circumstances.

PS Index, pantyhose are the invention of the devil when it is hot and humid.  Horrible horrible things.

One of my girls prefers skirts. Her body shape is not fit for pants, and skirts are much more comfortable for her. 90 % of her skirts are "skorts" from lands' end. These have integrated shorts, to stop her being careful while playing. They are also short and loose enough that they don't stop her from doing any kinds of gymnastics. https://www.landsend.com/shop/girls-skirts-skorts/-/N-g12Zkdq?cm_re=lec-_-kids-_-global-_-glbnv-girlsskirtsskorts-_-20160316-_-txt  Winter wear is woolen thights and snow pants (again; important that the skirt is short enough when you put a pair of snow pants on over it.)

I have streamlined my wardrobe to only consist of dresses with Pockets, cardigans, and thights. Everything in the same color scheme, so I don't have to think while dressing or packing for travels. The dresses are all from the same brand, where I trust the quality, and where the fit is consistent so I can order online. A bit pricey, but very time and energy efficient. And since they last for years, TCO is not too bad. My biggest cost, and sole reason for visiting normal clothes stores, are thights/panty hose. No matter which brand, they only last a limited amount of wears.

The shaving thing is extremely annoying. My grandfather had to shave his face twice a day if he wanted to look decent, and my legs have the same type of growth. I can keep it down with epilators, but that is not very comfortable. I have tried to skip shaving all together, but get very self consious when I'm out in the public. So I only shave my legs during summer, when it is too warm to wear thights. Luckily, I live in Norway, where summer only comes around a few days a year.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #231 on: June 21, 2018, 06:02:33 AM »
GAja, skorts are a great invention.  But not everyone can wear them everywhere - like an office.  Or to school if the school uniform doesn't include them.    Stupid schools.

Re the leg hair, everyone, wait until you are 10-15 years into menopause, it just slowly disappears.  Or at least it does in my family.

General look at women and fashion - let's drop clothes for a second, we have about exhausted that part of the topic.   There is a pile more stuff expected of someone staying in fashion than there was 20-40 years ago.  All this fancy nail polish, and little crystals in nail polish - that did not exist when I was at the fashionable age.  Eyebrow threading (ouch).  How much is business trying to get more things fashionable so they can make more money, and how much is a feminist backlash, I do not know - but it seems to take more effort (money and time) these days to be girly.  Actually the late 60's, early 70's were easy, long straight hair for white girls, long hair for white guys, Afros for black girls and guys.  (yes, I am talking people in their teens, and 20's, everyone else still looked like the 50s).  Curly hair got ironed.  Then Farah Fawcett hit and we all had to have hair with masses of waves and body and it has been downhill ever since.

pachnik

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #232 on: June 21, 2018, 06:46:12 AM »
Re the leg hair, everyone, wait until you are 10-15 years into menopause, it just slowly disappears.  Or at least it does in my family.

General look at women and fashion - let's drop clothes for a second, we have about exhausted that part of the topic.   There is a pile more stuff expected of someone staying in fashion than there was 20-40 years ago.  All this fancy nail polish, and little crystals in nail polish - that did not exist when I was at the fashionable age.  Eyebrow threading (ouch).  How much is business trying to get more things fashionable so they can make more money, and how much is a feminist backlash, I do not know - but it seems to take more effort (money and time) these days to be girly.  Actually the late 60's, early 70's were easy, long straight hair for white girls, long hair for white guys, Afros for black girls and guys.  (yes, I am talking people in their teens, and 20's, everyone else still looked like the 50s).  Curly hair got ironed.  Then Farah Fawcett hit and we all had to have hair with masses of waves and body and it has been downhill ever since.

I LOL's at your last sentence!   I was a teen during the early 80's and really, really tried to get my hair to be all puffy.  Well, I have the world's flattest, straightest hair.  :) 

Personally I don't mind eyebrow threading but I know lots of people find it a bit painful. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #233 on: June 21, 2018, 07:03:52 AM »

Nobody wears a watch any more, and most of the guys I know cut their own hair.  To shave my face (and legs in the summer) works out to about five dollars a year using safety razors.


I like to wear a watch and I know many people who do. Some wear a smartwatch.

I know surprisingly many man who do no cut their own hair with a razor. Many of my male colleagues have haircuts that look to be done by a hairdresser. Even my brother who has trouble finding a fulltime job is going to a hairdresser and let him boys go to a hairdresser. Some smart men cut their hair short with a razor (Mustachian male grooming device), but there are many men that are not so smart.

Davnasty

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #234 on: June 21, 2018, 07:27:33 AM »
I'm surprised it's only a quarter million more.  What do men even spend money on? Soap, deodorant, shaving gear, hair cuts and hair products ... sturdy, well made clothes and shoes that go out of fashion slowly ... a watch ... maybe cologne?  Or am I just totally out of it?

It's not, it's much less. More like $50,000, at least according to the real survey cited by OP's original article which misquoted the survey.

It says women spend a lifetime total of $225,360 while men spend $175,680. By comparison women spend around $50,000 or 28% more than men. And that's based on a Groupon survey of 2,000 people.

https://www.groupon.com/merchant/blog/true-cost-beauty-americans-spend-most-survey

Davnasty

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #235 on: June 21, 2018, 07:35:38 AM »
I'm surprised it's only a quarter million more.  What do men even spend money on? Soap, deodorant, shaving gear, hair cuts and hair products ... sturdy, well made clothes and shoes that go out of fashion slowly ... a watch ... maybe cologne?  Or am I just totally out of it?

Nobody wears a watch any more, and most of the guys I know cut their own hair.  To shave my face (and legs in the summer) works out to about five dollars a year using safety razors.

:P

Safety razor high five! (be careful though)

Do you bother with shaving cream? I've found I don't need it with a safety razor but that's just on my face.

GuitarStv

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #236 on: June 21, 2018, 07:54:56 AM »
I'm surprised it's only a quarter million more.  What do men even spend money on? Soap, deodorant, shaving gear, hair cuts and hair products ... sturdy, well made clothes and shoes that go out of fashion slowly ... a watch ... maybe cologne?  Or am I just totally out of it?

Nobody wears a watch any more, and most of the guys I know cut their own hair.  To shave my face (and legs in the summer) works out to about five dollars a year using safety razors.

:P

Safety razor high five! (be careful though)

Do you bother with shaving cream? I've found I don't need it with a safety razor but that's just on my face.

Shaving cream if I'm in a hurry (which is most of the time).  If you've got time to soak your skin in warm water, work up a nice lather with soap, and then be careful with the razor it's not necessary.

Imma

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #237 on: June 21, 2018, 11:39:41 AM »
but it seems to take more effort (money and time) these days to be girly.  Actually the late 60's, early 70's were easy, long straight hair for white girls, long hair for white guys, Afros for black girls and guys.  (yes, I am talking people in their teens, and 20's, everyone else still looked like the 50s).  Curly hair got ironed.  Then Farah Fawcett hit and we all had to have hair with masses of waves and body and it has been downhill ever since.

If you didn't retire at 63 too long ago, you are around my parents' age. I am so glad I grew up in a village far away from the city, where few people were into fashion at all. I'm in my late 20s now and I've always looked like your description. My clothes have also always been 70s-inspired: boots, T-shirts, bellbottom jeans, peasant dresses, the majority of it homemade. It's just how my parents dressed us and I liked it. Most of the clothes were unisex too. My s/o and I both have natural hairstyles that we cut ourselves. I didn't really know shaving any kind of bodyhair was a thing non-Hollywood women did until I was like 16 and I never bothered much with it. I'm naturally not extremely hairy, but I've hardly ever had any comments about it at all and certainly not from men.

It's a challenge sometimes to get dressed for work because it's any "business" like clothing is so far removed from what I feel comfortable in and I never really learned how to do hair and make-up properly. I'm currently discovering 50's style dresses as a style that is acceptable in my office, but it's hard to find good quality comfortable shoes to wear with them.

I have always wondered why not more people (m/f) were skirts. I wear skirts and dresses almost exclusively, I'm quite clumsy and very active. It's not difficult for me to garden or cycle in a skirt at all. I guess it's just a matter of what you're used to. I've seen pictures of my grandma in the 50s putting up wallpaper in their home wearing kitten heels and a pencil skirt (and a head scarf, of course!)  - they were quite poor at that time, so I assume those were the only "old" clothes she had. Of course in some circumstances overalls are the best option, but I don't need overalls that often in my daily life. What I like prefer in skirts/dresses over any kind of pants, personally, is that they are much easier to make yourself and depending on the model it's often easy to add pockets to an existing skirt/dress. They feel warmer in winter and cooler in summer than jeans/trousers. I wear supersoft woolen thermal leggings that are as comfortable as any pyjama's and I like styles that are slightly wider. It's hard to find jeans or trousers that are not tight but also don't look lik something your grandmother would wear.

jinga nation

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #238 on: June 22, 2018, 02:41:42 PM »

Nobody wears a watch any more, <snip>


I like to wear a watch and I know many people who do. Some wear a smartwatch.

<snip>
We don't have smartphones/smartwatches in my workplace. Everyone wears a watch, men, women, military, civilians, contractors, janitors, cafe staff, etc. I haven't seen anyone not wearing a watch in the 6+ years I've worked here. If you don't know the time, you can't get to meetings on time, get your tasks done by the deadline. Wall clocks are only in selected meeting rooms. You aren't at your computer all day. In fact, in-processing paperwork highly suggests wearing a "sensible simple watch".
Recently specific fitness bands have been allowed to be worn in the workplace, so some folks have taken to wearing those in lieu of a watch.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #239 on: June 22, 2018, 06:52:19 PM »

Nobody wears a watch any more, <snip>


I like to wear a watch and I know many people who do. Some wear a smartwatch.

<snip>
We don't have smartphones/smartwatches in my workplace. Everyone wears a watch, men, women, military, civilians, contractors, janitors, cafe staff, etc. I haven't seen anyone not wearing a watch in the 6+ years I've worked here. If you don't know the time, you can't get to meetings on time, get your tasks done by the deadline. Wall clocks are only in selected meeting rooms. You aren't at your computer all day. In fact, in-processing paperwork highly suggests wearing a "sensible simple watch".
Recently specific fitness bands have been allowed to be worn in the workplace, so some folks have taken to wearing those in lieu of a watch.

Seems to me most people use their phone to tell time. Everyone using a watch suggests a secure facility to me, no phones, no non-work computers of any sort.  I know people working in construction who have had this requirement when working in buildings that need higher security.

Cressida

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #240 on: June 22, 2018, 10:46:52 PM »
If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

Without getting on board with the "attention-seeking" part (I used to wear skirts to work because most dress pants assume that women have some hips, and I do not; fortunately the dress code now allows jeans), I will say that the bolded is almost always a pertinent question.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #241 on: June 23, 2018, 06:31:44 AM »
If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

Without getting on board with the "attention-seeking" part (I used to wear skirts to work because most dress pants assume that women have some hips, and I do not; fortunately the dress code now allows jeans), I will say that the bolded is almost always a pertinent question.

In our society skirts are coded female.  Look at the ancient Greeks and Romans, they wore the equivalent of skirts.  It isn't that long ago that a woman wearing any sort of pants was scandalous - when she needed pants a woman wore a divided full skirt.  Social norms tend to win.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #242 on: June 23, 2018, 12:36:54 PM »
I was at an event with two coworkers, one female, one male. The place was crowded and hot, and the guy said how jealous he was of our skirts. His pants didn't allow for any circulation.

Our office is liberal enough that he could probably wear a skirt if he wanted to. The real obstacle is that he's too cheap to buy new clothes. Respect.

PoutineLover

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #243 on: June 23, 2018, 01:53:57 PM »
A guy at my office was wearing a skirt the other day, when it was super hot. And at my curling club, men often wear kilts. It's not daily wear for most, but nothing wrong with it.

RFAAOATB

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #244 on: June 23, 2018, 06:26:42 PM »
I'm very contrary to the majority of the population.  Looking at the expectation gap between standard female grooming and standard male grooming, I don't want the female standard to lower.  I want the male standard to increase.  I'm in the wrong audience, but would you women please help with this?  If a woman needs to shave her legs, pits, and body, then a man should be just as shaved.  I don't get what the deal is with guys who take their shirts off and look like they have a rug on their chest and back.  Any man pressuring a woman to lose weight should be sporting a six pack to start.  Woe to him if we bring out the calipers and he has a higher body fat percentage than she does.  And if any man gives too many bonus points to a woman with a large chest, then he better have a minimum of 17 inch biceps to match.

I can get away with shaving my head, and with my balding scalp it's the only thing that looks good on me.  I buy about two hair cuts a year while my wife spends exponentially more on her stylings every two months.  More and more women are getting away with short to shaved heads, but nowhere near the majority.  If we don't accept female shaved heads as the standard, I am going to have to buy some rock star wigs.

As part of my education, next time I pass Sephora I'm going to ask for a makeup demonstration on me.  I have no idea what standard male makeup will look like when it takes off, but it seems like an untapped market.

rdaneel0

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #245 on: June 23, 2018, 07:13:11 PM »
I'm very contrary to the majority of the population.  Looking at the expectation gap between standard female grooming and standard male grooming, I don't want the female standard to lower.  I want the male standard to increase.  I'm in the wrong audience, but would you women please help with this?  If a woman needs to shave her legs, pits, and body, then a man should be just as shaved.  I don't get what the deal is with guys who take their shirts off and look like they have a rug on their chest and back.  Any man pressuring a woman to lose weight should be sporting a six pack to start.  Woe to him if we bring out the calipers and he has a higher body fat percentage than she does.  And if any man gives too many bonus points to a woman with a large chest, then he better have a minimum of 17 inch biceps to match.

I can get away with shaving my head, and with my balding scalp it's the only thing that looks good on me.  I buy about two hair cuts a year while my wife spends exponentially more on her stylings every two months.  More and more women are getting away with short to shaved heads, but nowhere near the majority.  If we don't accept female shaved heads as the standard, I am going to have to buy some rock star wigs.

As part of my education, next time I pass Sephora I'm going to ask for a makeup demonstration on me.  I have no idea what standard male makeup will look like when it takes off, but it seems like an untapped market.


I kind of agree with you! I am a very coiffed woman by MMM standards. I do everything in house, and don't pay for minor items, but IRL i just look like a typical spendy lady with nice hair, done nails, and good fashion. At the same time though, my husband is similarly coiffed. He also keeps up with body hair, he also keeps up with body type by working out, and he also has an excellent sense of style. I think regional expectations probably play a role in this as well though, I see very groomed/stylish men frequently.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 06:22:14 PM by rdaneel0 »

PoutineLover

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #246 on: June 24, 2018, 02:25:30 AM »
I love my furry man! A certain amount of grooming is useful for certain activities, but to me a hairy chest is appealing. I think in the end, a lot of this issue just comes down to personal preference, and people will select into relationships that fit them. I won't date a guy who finds my leg hair unappealing, and I'll never ask a guy to remove his hair either. It's only when there's a mismatch of expectations, or when external society feels a need to manage how people look in a certain industry and punishes people for not conforming (by limiting advancement, etc) that we have a problem. Especially when those expectations are higher and more expensive for women.

Gin1984

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #247 on: June 24, 2018, 07:46:51 AM »
So, uh, not a girl and also someone without much fashion sense . . . but couldn't you just switch to wearing skirts instead of pants?  If the skirt has pleats, or is wider at the bottom than the top, then you really would only have to mess around with a single waist measurement.  I'd think it would be massively easier all around.

If it's that much easier and better overall, why aren't men doing it?

People hate skirts and dresses for a reason. It's attention-seeking attire in which it's very difficult to function or contribute. If all you have to do is sit around preening and looking decorative all the time, then sure, go for it and get a skirt. Just don't expect to get any actual work done, and don't expect to get paid like someone who does. Lifting, carrying, going up stairs or ladders, operating machinery and doing anything important in a lab, hospital, commercial kitchen, or construction site is downright dangerous.

It can't be as useless as you make it out to be.  Wasn't the kilt worn by Scots while lifting, carrying, climbing, riding horses, etc. in the 1700s?

Skirts are identified in Western society as female only.  (except kilts of course)   Pant until recently were male-only - my mother told me how scandalized her father  was when she, an adult woman in her 20's, wore slacks.  Skirts definitely hinder movement, so in an environment where a person needs to be able to move and do things, pants are much more preferable.  In an office environment women's skirts and men's suits both limit movement - would a man in a good suit want to get on his knees to crawl around, and ruin his trousers?  Would a woman in a skirt want to get down and do the same thing and hurt her knees (or ruin her expensive pantyhose) and also potentially reveal more of her body than she wants to?   Skirts also limit girls - a boy can play in his pants or shorts, a girl in a skirt is not going to be on the monkey bars or doing somersaults or handstands.

One advantage of skirts (not full-length) is that loose ones are cooler in summer.  Of course they are also colder in winter.  When my high school uniform was a skirt and blazer, and I walked to school, I wore snow pants under my skirt.  So fun getting those off at school, in front of my locker, in company with all the other girls who were in the same circumstances.

PS Index, pantyhose are the invention of the devil when it is hot and humid.  Horrible horrible things.
I can do anything in the right kind of skirt that I can do in pants, as I could as a girl.  And just wear shorts under your skirt, as a girl and you can do anything.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #248 on: June 24, 2018, 08:32:27 AM »
I'm very contrary to the majority of the population.  Looking at the expectation gap between standard female grooming and standard male grooming, I don't want the female standard to lower.  I want the male standard to increase.  I'm in the wrong audience, but would you women please help with this?  If a woman needs to shave her legs, pits, and body, then a man should be just as shaved.  I don't get what the deal is with guys who take their shirts off and look like they have a rug on their chest and back.  Any man pressuring a woman to lose weight should be sporting a six pack to start.  Woe to him if we bring out the calipers and he has a higher body fat percentage than she does.  And if any man gives too many bonus points to a woman with a large chest, then he better have a minimum of 17 inch biceps to match.

I can get away with shaving my head, and with my balding scalp it's the only thing that looks good on me.  I buy about two hair cuts a year while my wife spends exponentially more on her stylings every two months.  More and more women are getting away with short to shaved heads, but nowhere near the majority.  If we don't accept female shaved heads as the standard, I am going to have to buy some rock star wigs.

As part of my education, next time I pass Sephora I'm going to ask for a makeup demonstration on me.  I have no idea what standard male makeup will look like when it takes off, but it seems like an untapped market.

Male makeup is already used. Just look at celebrities in TV shows that interview them. Often they and the male cost are covered in subtile, but noticeable makeup. At least here on the Norwegian TV I have seen eye pencil and eye shadow used on male presentors.

Another market that is already used in Asia is male bras. More and more men are overweight and have boobs. In some Asian countries, men have started to wear a bra.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 08:33:58 AM by Linda_Norway »

Hirondelle

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Re: Do women really spend 1/4 M more than men on appearance?
« Reply #249 on: June 24, 2018, 08:46:27 AM »
For TV and theatre usually everyone - including males - wears make up for the sake of the light/camera. Without the make-up apparently you'd look weird and your skin reflects the light or sth?

I've never seen the male bra thing. A quick Google search told me some Asians had done it out of protest, but couldn't find anything in relation to being overweight?