The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: BlueHouse on August 18, 2016, 01:57:15 PM
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How do you deflect when someone criticizes your choice to save instead of spend?
Variations on this theme are:
- You're rich, you should buy it
- You're rich, you should pay for all of us
- You deserve it
- Go ahead, treat yourself!
- You make so much money, what do you care how much it costs?
- It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
I usually try to deflect the assumption suggestion that I'm rich. But then that makes me seem defensive.
So let's hear it...
Do you have a stock phrase? Do you explain the situation? Are you snarky? Nice? I would love to have a few pat answers because mine are never as eloquent as I'd like them to be.
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How do you deflect when someone criticizes your choice to save instead of spend?
- You're rich, you should buy it
- "You can be rich or you can buy these things."
- You're rich, you should pay for all of us
- "We each decide what we want to pay for. I'm mindful of my purchases, and generous when I see fit."
- "Deserve is magical thinking. There's no universal rule that we deserve things. We have to think about what we spend our money on."
- Go ahead, treat yourself!
- "I treat myself plenty - this isn't going to be one of those times."
- You make so much money, what do you care how much it costs?
- "Caring about how much things cost and being smart with money is how I can make sure I have money when it really matters."
- It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
- "Most people can afford anything but obviously not everything - there are lots of things I didn't buy so I had the option to buy this."
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I would try to figure out why your friends have the impression you are rich. Are you doing, buying, or talking about something?
Also maybe you need new friends.
I have one friend who is very wealthy. Her and her husband are both self made millionaires with extremely successful businesses. We talk about finances sometimes and I won't lie that she is a big inspiration to me years ago to start saving and investing. At the same time I would never presume that when we go out they will pick up the check. I would never expect them to pay my way for anything. Do they sometimes pick up the check? yes, but then so have I.
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- It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
- "Most people can afford anything but obviously not everything - there are lots of things I didn't buy so I had the option to buy this."
This is honestly the one that gets me all the time; it makes me crazy. My husband and I love to travel, it is essentially the only thing we spend money on outside of basic needs, and every time we go anywhere someone insists on saying things like this. It makes me especially crazy when my colleagues say it, and we earn basically the same salary! My response is usually similar to what Neogodless said, something along the lines of "We work hard, and save harder. When you are at the bar having ten $7 beers, I am at home having a $2 beer. Then, when you are at home complaining about having no money, I am skiing in the Swiss Alps - it's all about choices!"
Chances are I come across way more defensive than I really need to. It is one of those conversations that really grinds my gears. I am getting slightly better at not needing to respond so vehemently, and deflecting mostly with leveled stares... certainly not perfected yet though! Ha ha!
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I usually say something like "I'd rather XYZ than XYZ." Example, I'd rather travel than hang out at the bar and drink $10 beers. Or I'd rather save so I can retire early than have a new car. Or, I don't drink so I can buy organic produce.
As others have said, it really is about choices and my response usually just revolves around pointing out what I'm choosing not to do so I can choose to do something else.
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Yeah, this is a huge reason why I don't let anyone know how much money I have sitting at Vanguard.
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- It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
I usually make a joke out of this one, like "Ahh young grasshopper, such sentiments are foolish. I can teach you the ways of frugality." It is easy to laugh off but it also makes a point.
For the other ones I usually deflect by indicating that I'm saving up for a large purchase (kids braces, college, etc).
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Turn it around and say "You're not, so maybe you should pay attention to how I manage to hang onto my money." ;)
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How do they know you have money?
Don't discuss finances with anyone. Problem solved.
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I have a similar, but opposite problem. A coworker of mine seems to think I'm a millionaire *because of* my known-to-him frugality and investments (I'm 25 and have about median household income). He keeps talking about a 48-unit apartment building for sale near him that I should buy because he knows I'm a real estate investor (I have one rental house). It's baffling and hilarious.
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I would try to figure out why your friends have the impression you are rich. Are you doing, buying, or talking about something?
Also maybe you need new friends.
How do they know you have money?
Don't discuss finances with anyone. Problem solved.
I've modified the original posting to change the word assumption to suggestion. No, of course my friends would never say such things to me! These are things that happen to many people. When I encounter these people, it's typically at work. I'm a consultant so more people know my hourly rate than would typically know it if I were a W-2 private employee. And, it's almost always a situation where I have to be polite in response.
It's very typical for people to call consultants "high-priced consultants", so I've learned to deal with that pretty well. It's also common in the same way that people who aren't poor claim to be poor, and sometimes those same people like to accuse other people of "being rich". Maybe I should turn it around and just say "it sounds like you're projecting".
It almost always sounds like a joke, so my answers really do have to be lighthearted as well. It's just that there's always some truth in jokes, so I'm trying to be pretty sensitive to that.
Edited to fix quote
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Some of my responses, depending on context...
"Sure, I can afford X, but only because I haven't bought new clothes for three years!" (Or some similarly over-the-top frugal-sounding thing: my car is 15 years old, I eat rice and beans five nights a week, etc.)
"All my money is tied up in my retirement account."
"I could afford it if I really wanted to, but I don't think it's worth what they're charging."
"I'm trying really hard to save up money for <vacation/laptop/car/down payment> right now."
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I would try to figure out why your friends have the impression you are rich. Are you doing, buying, or talking about something?
Also maybe you need new friends.
I have one friend who is very wealthy. Her and her husband are both self made millionaires with extremely successful businesses. We talk about finances sometimes and I won't lie that she is a big inspiration to me years ago to start saving and investing. At the same time I would never presume that when we go out they will pick up the check. I would never expect them to pay my way for anything. Do they sometimes pick up the check? yes, but then so have I.
That's why you're still friends. :)
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Yeah, this is a huge reason why I don't let anyone know how much money I have sitting at Vanguard.
Must be nice to have money sitting in Vanguard. Jeez. Wish I was rich.
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My mother is a big fan of "you deserve it!" and "you can afford it!" and I usually just say something like "I deserve/can afford a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I have to buy all of them."
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Yeah, this is a huge reason why I don't let anyone know how much money I have sitting at Vanguard.
Must be nice to have money sitting in Vanguard. Jeez. Wish I was rich.
If only it weren't digital, if it were cash it might be possible to dive into it Scrooge-McDuck style.
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If possible, I just try to slide in the idea of value into the conversation.
"You can afford the guacamole" - Friend
"Yes, but it's not that important to me right now." - Me while sipping on my $5 custom mexican mocha with cayenne pepper iced coffee
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"Sorry! It's just not in my budget!"
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People have been on my ass for years about being cheap or stingy or whatever. They don't know how much money we have, but I am an engineer, so people know I earn a lot. Then they come our house and see our thrift store sheets as curtains, furniture from college, used clothing, low budget cell phones, diy repairs, etc. They are completely baffled. They ask why all of our stuff is "old" or "shitty", I reply, "I rather have cash!"
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1. You're rich, you should buy it
"I'm rich because I don't buy stuff like that"
2. You're rich, you should pay for all of us
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
3. You deserve it
"I deserve to retire in my 30s, which won't happen if I buy everything people tell me I deserve"
4. Go ahead, treat yourself!
"That's not a treat, it's inferior to [Mustachian Option]" (especially regarding restaurants)
5. You make so much money, what do you care how much it costs?
(I make a pretty average salary, so N/A)
6. It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
"We all make lifestyle choices! Did you know you spend more money on buying lunch every day than I do traveling to Europe every summer?"
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Is this a common attitude? I've never experienced it. And while we live simply, it's common knowledge my wife is a lawyer, so we can't hide that we have above average income.
If someone approached me with this attitude, I just tell them to pay their own way. If they did it a second time, I'd stop hanging out with them.
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- Go ahead, treat yourself!
- "I treat myself plenty - this isn't going to be one of those times."
I really like this approach. It can easily be said in a really light-hearted way when you're responding to clients and such.
- You make so much money, what do you care how much it costs?
- "Caring about how much things cost and being smart with money is how I can make sure I have money when it really matters."
This one is also really good. Since OP said he's often dealing with clients when these types of feelings creep in, it's most important to brush things off with a friendly-sounding attitude and a smile.
Another one of my favorites:
My mother is a big fan of "you deserve it!" and "you can afford it!" and I usually just say something like "I deserve/can afford a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I have to buy all of them."
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I have made the mistake of singing my new frugal ways and the idea of ER to my siblings. Lately, one of them has been eyeballing me and I recently found out he's only 2-3 months away from being flat broke. If he doesn't find a job quickly, I suspect he'll come knocking.
In order to prevent this, I've started dropping little hints. Even if he does ask, I'll be able to claim poverty. I just complain about a few situations that he has been in and he won't question a thing. Because frugality is so foreign to him, he'll expect me to solve problems in the way he has solved problems in the past - he just doesn't think of any other way. For example, the interest rates on savings accounts have gone down again (it's 0.4 or 0.5 now) and I mentioned it's not worth saving money anymore. My meaning: I downsized my EF and invested it into Vanguard. His understanding: more spending. And I made sure to make a few noises about repairs on car/house/bike (which I mostly DIY'ed, but he doesn't even think I'd do that).
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I have made the mistake of singing my new frugal ways and the idea of ER to my siblings. Lately, one of them has been eyeballing me and I recently found out he's only 2-3 months away from being flat broke. If he doesn't find a job quickly, I suspect he'll come knocking.
In order to prevent this, I've started dropping little hints. Even if he does ask, I'll be able to claim poverty. I just complain about a few situations that he has been in and he won't question a thing. Because frugality is so foreign to him, he'll expect me to solve problems in the way he has solved problems in the past - he just doesn't think of any other way. For example, the interest rates on savings accounts have gone down again (it's 0.4 or 0.5 now) and I mentioned it's not worth saving money anymore. My meaning: I downsized my EF and invested it into Vanguard. His understanding: more spending. And I made sure to make a few noises about repairs on car/house/bike (which I mostly DIY'ed, but he doesn't even think I'd do that).
Oh and for the record, I wouldn't turn away a family member if they couldn't have helped the situation they were in. But in this case... he could've been FIRE'd years ago if he'd just kept a level head. He had the biggest income in the entire family for years - by quite a margin actually. But if you keep spending at the same level when there's no money coming in... sorry, you're on your own.
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I sometimes respond by telling people that I've gone into debt to afford whatever it is. For some reason nobody ever questions it, which makes it really amusing to me.
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My go to answer is "I don't need your help spending my money". That usually stops the conversation.
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"Yes, I could/would/should...except I don't want to."
It's difficult for people to argue with "I don't want to."
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I've never been rich, just cheap.
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I usually start an hour long discussion about stoicism...just kidding. The real answer is to either smile or laugh it off or ignore the question. Change the subject to something interesting. Many times people are just trying to make conversation or be funny, not challenge your world view.
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Everyone in my office knows I'm a cheap bastard. They even joke around with my husband (he works across the hall) that they are sorry he's married to such a cheap bastard. He replies that he's an even cheaper bastard.
The glory of this is that everyone also THINKS that we are extremely wealthy because we are cheap bastards and most feel sorry for us....or at least pretend to feel sorry for us. I'm not really sure.
No one would really ever tell me that I deserve something or that I should treat myself. They know me better than that. They don't ask me to go to lunch at all. I wouldn't miss a workout anyway.
At my last position, I had a number written in the corner of my white board. It was days until retirement. I remember when it was over 1500 days. When folks went out for happy hour, I would point to the number and say something to the effect of "I don't want to add numbers, only subtract. I'm just going to go chill at home for free." It was a good reminder for me that going out for happy hour to try to deal with another week at work was counter-productive and was only adding weeks of work and therefore more mandatory happy hours....ad nauseam. It really puts the irony in your face.
I have a coworker that gets depressed over finances (maxed credit cards) and goes out for mani/pedis to try and help her feel better. That's like shooting yourself in the foot because you have a blister on your toe.
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Side tracking slightly, but one nice thing about reaching FI is having the ability to share your success with others.
I enjoy picking up the tab occasionally for a group when we all go out to supper, entertaining and providing meals at my house, sharing our vacation home & boat, taking someone that wouldn't otherwise spend the money on a trip at my expense, helping out someone in a financial pinch, etc.
And there are many good people that try hard and don't waste $$, but for one reason or another may never reach FI.
Don't worry too much about those comments. Life is too short for that stuff.
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"Yes, I could/would/should...except I don't want to."
It's difficult for people to argue with "I don't want to."
After reading the OP, I was thinking "That's not what I really want" seems a fitting response to all those situations.
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I'm in the smile, laugh, wave my hand and give some vague comment about how I don't want or need whatever the thing is. Or my standard, "we all have choices to make. " And change the subject.
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We don't share our financial situation with anyone. Assumptions have been made about our older than norm cars (comfortable, reliable but older). Assumptions have been made about our jobs. They think we scrape by but we're doing great. Saving lots and should be able to retire with an income the same or larger than our combined salaries. Once the mortgage is gone we'll be able to tuck that away too.
We're finally in a position for international travel next year for our family of four if we choose to. That would turn some heads who thought we were just getting by. ;)
To anyone that suggests we were rich I'd say we have enough. Enough for this or that but not both and I'd rather choose the -insert long term goal here-.
We won't retire early b/c we started late. We WILL retire though and not to a situation where we have to watch every nickel. I think a fair number of people will be lucky to retire at all or they'll be in some sort of low income situation reliant on gov't benefits to feed themselves, subsidized housing, etc. It'll be interesting how some of those people will rationalize their choices during their younger years, their politics and reliance on gov't benefits. I suspect it will still not be their fault...
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"As a matter of fact, I AM rich... I'm rich as fuck, bitch! And I didn't get this way by taking financial advice from broke-ass plebeians like YOU!"
;)
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I once had a coworker who was very spendy, and weirdly obsessed with trying to get me do the same. One day he was pushing couple's massages as a great date night. I found myself replying (and completely meaning it), "saving money IS my couple's massage."
My husband would say "with the money we make, you're saying we can't afford - ?" multiple times per week for years. It drove me crazy. It wasn't until I found ER that I had a good reply: "it's not worth working another day/month/year." That actually shut him up - he hasn't said it in the two years I've been reading MMM.
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Whenever people say I should do / buy something because they know I can afford it, I usually default to:
"I wish I could do that, but I'm a cheap bastard and I'll never spend that kind of money on a car / vacation / etc."
It usually gets a chuckle and they move on to complaining about how much they had to spend on whatever they just tried to talk me into doing.
Friends usually stop making statements about how I should spend my money pretty quickly after meeting me, so I don't deal with it too often. If anyone continues to press after my default response, I usually follow up with:
"If you want to pay for me to do XYZ / buy me a XYZ, great, I won't stop you. I'm not going to spend my money on that right now." That usually puts an end to it.
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I once had a coworker who was very spendy, and weirdly obsessed with trying to get me do the same
THIS! This is what it is. Thank you for expressing it because I couldn't quite figure out what the main culprit is doing when he does it. This!
My go to answer is "I don't need your help spending my money". That usually stops the conversation.
Love this!
I think in my situation, this one will work well. Can't wait to use it on Main Culprit.
"As a matter of fact, I AM rich... I'm rich as fuck, bitch! And I didn't get this way by taking financial advice from broke-ass plebeians like YOU!"
;)
And zephyr, I will save yours for a Friday afternoon when Main Culprit is trying to convince me to go to the $250/person prix fixe restaurant.
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And zephyr, I will save yours for a Friday afternoon when Main Culprit is trying to convince me to go to the $250/person prix fixe restaurant.
I cackle hearing about the very existence of such things. I don't think it's even possible to spend that much on dinner here, unless you order insane shit like bottles of top-shelf liquor.
Our restaurants top out at Ruth Chris and a couple of vaguely comparable local mom-and-pops, and I don't think there's an entrée even close to $100. Of course, I could be wrong... never been... xD
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An entre that costs $100+ isn't for eating. Its for pressing in your scrap book or framing and hanging on the wall for everyone to see.
Hmmm, on second thought - yuck...
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An entre that costs $100+ isn't for eating. Its for pressing in your scrap book or framing and hanging on the wall for everyone to see.
Hmmm, on second thought - yuck...
You could always just take a picture of you eating it there, being sure to put in the caption the name of the restaurant and how ballin' you are, and then post it to facebook, instagram, snapchat, whatevs ;-)
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What is this Facebook, Insta-something, and snapbeans you speak of? Never got the itch for social media. Its like failing to learn the local dialect. It is isolating in 2016 b/c apparently nobody communicates any other way...
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And zephyr, I will save yours for a Friday afternoon when Main Culprit is trying to convince me to go to the $250/person prix fixe restaurant.
I cackle hearing about the very existence of such things. I don't think it's even possible to spend that much on dinner here, unless you order insane shit like bottles of top-shelf liquor.
Our restaurants top out at Ruth Chris and a couple of vaguely comparable local mom-and-pops, and I don't think there's an entrée even close to $100. Of course, I could be wrong... never been... xD
This is it. And yes, I really really want to try it. It's a few blocks from my house and I'm pretty sure that one of these days I'll just walk in to sit at the bar and feel like I'm getting a great deal because they charge a little less for bar service.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/pineapple-and-pearls-review-aaron-silvermans-fine-dining-lair-is-astounding/2016/05/09/6f7ca2a4-1642-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/pineapples-and-pearls-review-dining-so-fine-were-seeing-4-stars-from-the-start/2016/08/01/67b4f504-4d23-11e6-a422-83ab49ed5e6a_story.html
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I get this from my coworkers; they don't know what I have, but they know I'm pretty frugal, and invest. I just laugh them off, or ignore them.
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"You think I'm rich?"
"Have you seen my car?"
I drive a 2003 Pontiac Vibe with 200,000 miles and is worth about ($1500).
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Is this a common attitude? I've never experienced it. And while we live simply, it's common knowledge my wife is a lawyer, so we can't hide that we have above average income.
If someone approached me with this attitude, I just tell them to pay their own way. If they did it a second time, I'd stop hanging out with them.
I've never experienced it... Must be the company you keep. In general, I tend to associate with people who make even more than me so I'm the poor one! The only possibility for cattiness would be at the office from someone like the receptionist but I don't think anyone with that attitude would last long (and they've always been great).
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"we're paying off debt" works well.
Just think if your need to ER as a large debt...
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If you use the zero budgeting method, in which every single dollar is allocated (doesn't matter where it goes) you could honestly tell people you have nothing left to spend or are living paycheck to paycheck. The paycheck to paycheck might be stretching the definition, though.
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Then they come our house and see our thrift store sheets as curtains, furniture from college, used clothing, low budget cell phones, diy repairs, etc. They are completely baffled. They ask why all of our stuff is "old" or "shitty", I reply, "I rather have cash!"
That is just plain rude. Do you go over to their house and say "What a lot of expensive useless crap you've got here"? Basic human decency would be nice.
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Then they come our house and see our thrift store sheets as curtains, furniture from college, used clothing, low budget cell phones, diy repairs, etc. They are completely baffled. They ask why all of our stuff is "old" or "shitty", I reply, "I rather have cash!"
That is just plain rude. Do you go over to their house and say "What a lot of expensive useless crap you've got here"? Basic human decency would be nice.
Oh god. I love that line. I'm totally going to use that line next time someone criticizes us for cheaping out on something.
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How do you deflect when someone criticizes your choice to save instead of spend?
Variations on this theme are:
- You're rich, you should buy it
- You're rich, you should pay for all of us
- You deserve it
- Go ahead, treat yourself!
- You make so much money, what do you care how much it costs?
- It must be nice to have such a nice [anything], I could never afford that
I usually try to deflect the assumption suggestion that I'm rich. But then that makes me seem defensive.
So let's hear it...
Do you have a stock phrase? Do you explain the situation? Are you snarky? Nice? I would love to have a few pat answers because mine are never as eloquent as I'd like them to be.
I tell them to go back to the barn where they learned to speak to people that way.
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I would try to figure out why your friends have the impression you are rich. Are you doing, buying, or talking about something?
Also maybe you need new friends.
How do they know you have money?
Don't discuss finances with anyone. Problem solved.
I've modified the original posting to change the word assumption to suggestion. No, of course my friends would never say such things to me! These are things that happen to many people. When I encounter these people, it's typically at work. I'm a consultant so more people know my hourly rate than would typically know it if I were a W-2 private employee. And, it's almost always a situation where I have to be polite in response.
It's very typical for people to call consultants "high-priced consultants", so I've learned to deal with that pretty well. It's also common in the same way that people who aren't poor claim to be poor, and sometimes those same people like to accuse other people of "being rich". Maybe I should turn it around and just say "it sounds like you're projecting".
It almost always sounds like a joke, so my answers really do have to be lighthearted as well. It's just that there's always some truth in jokes, so I'm trying to be pretty sensitive to that.
Edited to fix quote
For your specific situation (must be polite, speaking to clients or employees of clients), I'd lie to fit in. "Rich?! That's before my car/mortgage/student loan/alimony/child support/student loan/medical debt payments!" Then sigh and talk about how nice it would be to win the lottery.
In this case you're managing your professional relationships/image. Your personal financial situation isn't related to your work so don't offend anyone by being truthful or smart-mouthed. And don't let them think that there isn't a penny of your billings that isn't already spoken for, so there's no impression that you don't need to be paid every dollar that your services are worth.
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Anytime I've dealt with something like this in my life I always repeat my go to line
"You don't get rich by spending frivolously"
It normally shuts them up.
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Had this happen last week. I make probably one of the lowest salaries in my company (one of the younger ones, newer ones, and non-computer programmer ones). But my frugality is well known (always bring lunch for example). Two colleagues were talking about buying a 1000$ plane ticket (one of them is French and wanted to go home to visit family this year), and I didn't hear the rest of the conversation but at some point they passed by my desk and said something along the lines of, "with your frugality, 1000$ for a plane ticket must not make much difference to you". I just replied, "1000$ is a lot of money no matter how much I have in the bank, I don't see why it would mean less to me than to you?"
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. I just replied, "1000$ is a lot of money no matter how much I have in the bank,
Even in Canadian dollars ;-)
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I was always taught that finances are personal, so when someone asks a question like that they are prying into my private life. I still answer, usually along the lines of "I didn't get rich by spending money." But then I turn the tables on them. If they are going to pry into my finances, I'm going to return the favor. Fair is fair, right? Why do they continue to pay for cable (or Starbucks, or eating out, or any number of other things) even though they are in debt? Have they started saving for retirement? Are they making use of that employer match to their 401(k). How do they expect to save a down payment for a house in a HCOL area when they keep taking expensive vacations? Funny, my friends no longer ask questions like that :)
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I tell people it's all being spent on my cars.
It's really not true. But it sounds true enough, because I'll start telling them about how one needs new shocks and an oil cooler and how since I'm doing an oil cooler I may as well add a filter relocation + double filter kit and an oil accumulator and ...
This has the effect of getting people to shut up about how they think I should replace the buick, and if there are other car nerds in the conversation, we can start talking about cars. What a win.