Author Topic: Deflated by other people's reactions  (Read 21104 times)

pursestrings

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Deflated by other people's reactions
« on: August 27, 2013, 05:33:35 PM »
I am new to MMM and have been suggesting this site enthusiastically as a place to check out for money tips,  but am finding it a depressing and alienating experience. "No-one else can possibly know how hard it is to be me in my financial situation" seems to be the dominant expression, as is the refrain about people having kids being much worse off than people who don't and thus people without children can't possibly comment or offer advice because they DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ME.

I am really sad about this. Last month I already lost one friend because I was too enthusiastic about my hope for my future and my new goals and they appeared to think i was boasting. They are instantly defensive. No-one actually wants to hear about my excitement, I've realised - and here I was thinking my friends would be happy for me and interested in what's behind it, even though I'm probably poorer than them right now.

Do I really have to keep this to myself forever? And when I do reach ER, will they continue to think that my situation is somehow different, I was lucky, and it's not something they could do?

i really want to spread the word but i'm going to shut up instead to keep my friends. Has anyone else found this?

fidgiegirl

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 05:38:52 PM »
It's awful of me but I never assume people want to hear or know anything about me.  People are mainly interested in themselves.  So unless someone asks, really asks, about me, I stick to niceties.  Terrible way to see the world but it's helped me cut back on these kinds of incidents.  I have felt my way through my circle of friends and acquaintances enough to know with whom I can express these enthusiasms and with whom I cannot.  Of course, that happens through missteps sometimes.  I just think true blue friends are hard to come by, and treasure the ones I do have.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people in my life that I can have a fantastic time with, just that I feel they don't truly know me deeply, and that's ok most of the time.  My depressing 2 cents!  :)

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 05:50:20 PM »
It's awful of me but I never assume people want to hear or know anything about me.  People are mainly interested in themselves.  So unless someone asks, really asks, about me, I stick to niceties.  Terrible way to see the world but it's helped me cut back on these kinds of incidents.
 

You're right. That is so true and I actually follow that all the time ... i never talk about myself and am amazed at how long conversations can go for with the other person asking not a single thing about me ... but in one case they had actually ASKED for advice!

I have felt my way through my circle of friends and acquaintances enough to know with whom I can express these enthusiasms and with whom I cannot.  Of course, that happens through missteps sometimes.  I just think true blue friends are hard to come by, and treasure the ones I do have.  Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people in my life that I can have a fantastic time with, just that I feel they don't truly know me deeply, and that's ok most of the time.  My depressing 2 cents!  :)
 

I'm learning that too as I get older. Good point - to treasure the real ones more. Thanks for replying, it's not depressing, just reality!

Russ

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 06:02:14 PM »
Different perspective: keep up what you're doing and you'll naturally find yourself with new friends who are more compatible with your new values. It's very difficult, as you're finding out now, to be that open about your life, but I've found the reward to be more than worth it.

Of course there's nothing wrong with keeping the friends you have. Just know that you do have another option besides either shutting up or being friendless.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 06:33:25 PM »
Thanks... I look forward to finding those people. I really want to be open about this - I want to shout it from the rooftops, that I have finally rid myself of the shackles. But I will pick my audience more carefully.

dragoncar

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 06:41:50 PM »
I am new to MMM and have been suggesting this site enthusiastically as a place to check out for money tips,  but am finding it a depressing and alienating experience. "No-one else can possibly know how hard it is to be me in my financial situation" seems to be the dominant expression, as is the refrain about people having kids being much worse off than people who don't and thus people without children can't possibly comment or offer advice because they DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ME.

I am really sad about this. Last month I already lost one friend because I was too enthusiastic about my hope for my future and my new goals and they appeared to think i was boasting. They are instantly defensive. No-one actually wants to hear about my excitement, I've realised - and here I was thinking my friends would be happy for me and interested in what's behind it, even though I'm probably poorer than them right now.

Do I really have to keep this to myself forever? And when I do reach ER, will they continue to think that my situation is somehow different, I was lucky, and it's not something they could do?

i really want to spread the word but i'm going to shut up instead to keep my friends. Has anyone else found this?

Sounds like either:

1) that wasn't a very valuable friend to begin with or
2) something about your presentation is off putting. 

Next time refer them first to fight club and see how they react. 

"You are not special.  You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.  You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else..."

Peony

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 06:59:59 PM »
It takes awhile to find likeminded people. I only have a few friends and acquaintances who enjoy talking in detail about money and comparing notes. That's one reason why I *love* my annual visit to my tax preparer, who's a total tightwad and economics geek and lets me pick his brain. I sometimes feel like his receptionist thinks something's going on because we have such an animated conversation! It's certainly not that way, but for me having someone to really open up to (and he knows everything about my finances!) is like getting a long, cool drink of water after a drought. I'm thinking of trying to get in on an MMM meetup in the city I visit the most often. Maybe you find one in your area?

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 07:02:24 PM »
Sounds like either:

1) that wasn't a very valuable friend to begin with or
2) something about your presentation is off putting. 

Next time refer them first to fight club and see how they react. 

"You are not special.  You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.  You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else..."

You're dead right about Fight Club.

And I think I WAS being overexcited and probably came across as bossy. it was an IM, so hard to tell their reactions.

smalllife

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 07:13:55 PM »
I am new to MMM and have been suggesting this site enthusiastically as a place to check out for money tips,  but am finding it a depressing and alienating experience. "No-one else can possibly know how hard it is to be me in my financial situation" seems to be the dominant expression, as is the refrain about people having kids being much worse off than people who don't and thus people without children can't possibly comment or offer advice because they DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE ME.

I am really sad about this. Last month I already lost one friend because I was too enthusiastic about my hope for my future and my new goals and they appeared to think i was boasting. They are instantly defensive. No-one actually wants to hear about my excitement, I've realised - and here I was thinking my friends would be happy for me and interested in what's behind it, even though I'm probably poorer than them right now.

I'm going to throw another idea into the mix.  This isn't about FI or ER, it's about the fact that they are burdened with children and you are sharing all of the dreams and plans for your future that they can never have.  Before all of the parents on this forum lynch me, take a minute to consider the other side of the coin.  Childfree people can't talk about their weekends or their plans in the same way that Mustachians can't talk about finances - people think we are crazy because we think and act outside of the life script and the pool of like-minded friends automatically shrinks by 90%.  Now multiply that limiting factor by two and you can start to see how frustrating it can be.

I would second the advise to temper the excitement about your goals and future plans until you know that you are dealing with a true friend.  I feel for you as I've been there and know how devastating to feel unable to share parts of yourself to friends and family.  Keep reminding yourself that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that you WILL get there.

Hugh H

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 07:16:46 PM »
Thanks... I look forward to finding those people. I really want to be open about this - I want to shout it from the rooftops, that I have finally rid myself of the shackles. But I will pick my audience more carefully.

In general, people don't like it when others brag about how awesome their life is, regardless of whether it is "Mustachianism" or something else. They automatically compare themselves to the situation and judge.

Adventine

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 07:58:19 PM »
You're not alone. I've faced the same problems too. Chin up, go easy on the preachy/bossiness (I know I can get this way sometimes too) and you'll eventually find new friends who share your new interests. And hey, that's what this forum is for anyway :D

JennieOG

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 08:33:48 PM »
Yeah, I too, have learned that pretty much no one I know gets it.  I am a single mother who owns a paid for house and a paid for car and has no debt, ample retirement savings and cash in the bank and I love the wonderful feeling I have of security!  I want some of my good friends to have it too because I can see they are under a ton of stress, but I can tell they don't want to give up their cable, Starbucks, and SUVs.  When I mention my philosophy or Mr. Money Moustache, they look at me as if I am from Mars so I drop it.  I have not had one person who is curious to know how I became debt free despite a low-income and terrible divorce (I don't get child support, either, not because I am not supposed to, but because my ex chooses not to work) so I just decided I have to not care and live my life the best I can!  And, if I ever do meet a like-minded friend in central Indiana, I am not letting that person go!

DougStache

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 08:43:04 PM »
I am getting this a lot lately, although I've already learned not to share too much directly.  I talked about it with a few very close friends, and they all greeted me with "that's nice, but I have student loans so that wouldn't work for me"/etc, so I backed off.

Of my friends, I am the highest earner.  When I switched from driving my car to work to taking the bus, it raised a few eyebrows; and again when I started biking.  I got a lot of "but you can afford it, just drive, its easier".  Letting my wife drive my car to work (rather than upgrading her beater) did the same.  Now we're house shopping, and looking at houses that are 1300-1400 sq ft for ~125k whereas a (currently unemployed) friend and his fiance just bought a 2300 sq ft house.

So yes, I've made the same "mistake" as you by bringing it up and I've stopped bringing it up directly.  However, it comes up a lot in day to day life now that I've been making significant lifestyle changes.  They have adjusted and just accept that if they invite me to go out to dinner, we're probably going to host a dinner party at my place. 

Culturally it feels a lot like a religion: You can have your beliefs and share it with people who are interested, but don't shove it down their throat.  "Let me tell you about Jesus" never flies well, no matter what the recipient's beliefs are.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 09:11:56 PM »

In general, people don't like it when others brag about how awesome their life is, regardless of whether it is "Mustachianism" or something else. They automatically compare themselves to the situation and judge.

In one case I wasn't bragging about how awesome my life is .. I am on a below-average wage with a large mortgage and student loan and they know it! :)

geekette

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 09:12:29 PM »
Yeah, I don't talk money with friends, but tonight at knit night, one of my friends brought up that her bank has this neat feature of forecasting your retirement, based on savings and savings rate.  She was upset that it told her she has 74 years to retirement...and then started talking about all the yarn and supplies she had just bought, and the coffee shop opening up right next to her office and how she can buy coffee every morning.

I joked with her "you know those two things are related, don't you?" and she basically pouted.  Yeah, that's gonna help.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 09:13:27 PM »
Yeah, I too, have learned that pretty much no one I know gets it.  I am a single mother who owns a paid for house and a paid for car and has no debt, ample retirement savings and cash in the bank and I love the wonderful feeling I have of security! 

Congratulations, those are remarkable achievements. It just bugs me that people would automatically write you off as "lucky" or that they couldn't do the same thing too.  I guess that's where the not-caring comes into play.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 09:15:20 PM »
Culturally it feels a lot like a religion: You can have your beliefs and share it with people who are interested, but don't shove it down their throat.  "Let me tell you about Jesus" never flies well, no matter what the recipient's beliefs are.

Exactly right! This is the first religion I can understand belonging to.

FiveSigmas

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2013, 11:43:35 PM »
Thanks... I look forward to finding those people. I really want to be open about this - I want to shout it from the rooftops, that I have finally rid myself of the shackles. But I will pick my audience more carefully.

That's the really awesome thing I've found about the MMM forums (and the MMM meetup I went to last year). You actually can share your success stories, and people can relate to them because they have their own success stories they can share right back with you.

On that note, if you do have the opportunity to go to a meetup, I highly recommend it. Heck, you can set one up yourself if there are other MMMers in your area. There is something wonderful about talking with real live people in person who share your financial goals.

dragoncar

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 04:53:54 AM »
Yeah, I don't talk money with friends, but tonight at knit night, one of my friends brought up that her bank has this neat feature of forecasting your retirement, based on savings and savings rate.  She was upset that it told her she has 74 years to retirement...and then started talking about all the yarn and supplies she had just bought, and the coffee shop opening up right next to her office and how she can buy coffee every morning.

I joked with her "you know those two things are related, don't you?" and she basically pouted.  Yeah, that's gonna help.

My bank would probably predict something similar, since I don't keep much in there and I don't let it grow

Basenji

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2013, 05:30:31 AM »
I mention the MMM blog, if someone asks, "Hey what are you doing lately?" but I don't go further. People are interested in a "money-saving blog" but I don't update them on my financial status. A family member was interested and wanted his daughter to read it. I said, "She's young (21) so she could really take advantage of it." And...stop talking. On the other hand, I have friends who are frugal in some ways, but not necessarily looking towards FI. I've taken to asking them about the frugal bits for information.

For a number of years my husband and I did not own a car. We used Zip Car and public transport and walked. Our friends in the burbs would say to us, "Well, we can't invite you to our house because we know that you have to rent a car to get here." We would try to explain that we were saving money by not owning a car, that we factored in the Zip Car trips. But they could never understand. It was the first thing people talked about with us [How's the no car thing going?] and the topic they used to introduce us to other people [These are the people we told you about, they have NO CAR!]. Most of these people meant well, but thought we were amusingly eccentric.

You'll find people who support you (these forums are a good place) and don't be bothered by comments about your "strange" lifestyle.

mpbaker22

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 07:45:09 AM »
Yeah, I don't talk money with friends, but tonight at knit night, one of my friends brought up that her bank has this neat feature of forecasting your retirement, based on savings and savings rate.  She was upset that it told her she has 74 years to retirement...and then started talking about all the yarn and supplies she had just bought, and the coffee shop opening up right next to her office and how she can buy coffee every morning.

I joked with her "you know those two things are related, don't you?" and she basically pouted.  Yeah, that's gonna help.

I think that's a point where, if she's a good friend, you say, "let's get together sometime and talk about finances and you can see how it really can help."  That way you don't have to go into a long discussion about personal finance in a large group, but you can help show her the light.  Then you show the effect of a daily coffee, the effect of a new car every 3 years, etc.

Only if you actually want to help and think she wants help.


simonsez

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 08:17:22 AM »
Which is more likely to be relatable?
1. "I'm retiring in my 30's/40's and you should too!  Act now!"
2. "I've been able to save $x by not doing z.  I've also started ______ recently and am thinking long-term about a lot of things.  I must say, I'm spending less but I'm happy."

I think many hear about the end game and cannot fathom the intermediate steps, therefore they dismiss and tune out the entire concept.  Try showing steps A & B instead revealing step Z from the get-go.  Everyone is different.

Of course, #2 may be perceived as pretty boastful but given the proper context, I think it could be inserted into a conversation about finances.  If you are good friends with someone, I think they should be able to tell if, a change in your life is so important to you and you are willing to share it with someone you care about, you are being genuine and not boastful or talking down.  Of course, you must present it in a way that is relatable and feasible.  If they listen to what you have to say and don't make any changes, respect their choices and go on being friends.  If the inconsistency in financial choices is indeed a major strain on the friendship, decide what is more important to you: downgrading/eliminating the intimacy level or your personal financial life (and it doesn't have to a conscious choice either, sometimes these things will work themselves out).

FunkyStickman

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 08:28:01 AM »
It's hard to convince people that don't want to be convinced. They are not ready to be free... to be "unplugged from the Matrix" so to speak.

Just keep doing what you're doing... if they're open to the possibility, they will ask questions. Otherwise, don't waste your time.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 08:36:57 AM »
People are like crabs in a bucket - always trying to drag the others down.  Sad but true. 

I guess people can also be like another crab as well - you know the kind that is source of burning irritation.

MsSindy

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2013, 09:08:26 AM »
People are like crabs in a bucket - always trying to drag the others down.  Sad but true. 

I guess people can also be like another crab as well - you know the kind that is source of burning irritation.

giggle, giggle, giggle....nicely said!

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 09:21:59 AM »
Some people ask for help but don't like the solutions..... don't worry.... just keep moving on and doing your thing. Don't keep it to yourself either... Real friends will embrace who you are.

galaxie

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 10:56:08 AM »
I mostly frame it in terms of "I'm pretty excited about XYZ right now" or "I'm trying a new thing."  I don't tell many people about my plan to retire early, because it's still a long time from now and you never know what will happen.  My close friends know, but they are nerd-cheap/DIY/grad student people themselves, so it's pretty ok.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 11:02:52 AM »
I've mentioned having income without having to work and better than 50% of the time I get looks like I'm absolutly out of my mind. Most people think it is harder to land a man on the moon than to live without having to work. Whatever. Their loss.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 02:48:55 PM »
I think many hear about the end game and cannot fathom the intermediate steps, therefore they dismiss and tune out the entire concept. 

Definitely true. And true for me too. I discovered MMM in June, but had a long-booked overseas trip to go on last month. While overseas, armed with my new knowledge, I experienced new levels of horror at what I was forced to spend on accommodation etc. I couldn't cope with it. It made me so unhappy. I just wanted to be home and saving. It actually ruined the trip!!

So this morning I got a new notebook (from my work's helpful stationery supplies cupboard), wrote "Badassity" on the front, and started to list the items I had saved on every day since I returned from overseas with my new world view.
  • "Didn't buy a drink at friend's birthday: $10"
  • "Made fudge instead of buying acquaintance a birthday gift: $15".
  • "Enjoyed a walk in the rain to work with umbrella and gumboots instead of adding fuel to empty car: $20."
After a week and a half i've saved $300-odd. I am just stunned. I thought I was saving before, but I wasn't. It's a really valuable technique and I can look back with satisfaction on all those moments I've chosen the right decision and see exactly how they added up.

Thanks all for your support.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 02:50:34 PM by pursestrings »

gooki

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 02:53:17 PM »
Consumerism is the new religion. People don't like being perched to about regions they don't belong to.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 07:39:54 PM »
I never really thought of consumerism as a religion...or mustachianism for that matter...I think it's a good way to look at it...people hold tightly to beliefs (no matter how irrational) and take offense if you tell them anything that goes against those beliefs.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 09:02:19 PM »
Why are you deflated by other people?

Because I want them to listen and understand and experience it, and they're writing it off as being impossible and not for them, which is so stupid and short-sighted that it frustrates me.

But I'm going to have to leave them to figure it out for themselves.

kyleaaa

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2013, 11:36:41 AM »
Why are you deflated by other people?

Because I want them to listen and understand and experience it, and they're writing it off as being impossible and not for them, which is so stupid and short-sighted that it frustrates me.

But I'm going to have to leave them to figure it out for themselves.

It is neither stupid nor short-sighted for them to write it off. It's not for everyone. You have to accept the fact that they just might be happier making the opposite decision you do.

pursestrings

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2013, 02:33:08 PM »
Why are you deflated by other people?

Because I want them to listen and understand and experience it, and they're writing it off as being impossible and not for them, which is so stupid and short-sighted that it frustrates me.

But I'm going to have to leave them to figure it out for themselves.

It is neither stupid nor short-sighted for them to write it off. It's not for everyone. You have to accept the fact that they just might be happier making the opposite decision you do.

That would be true if they weren't also complaining about how hard it is to get ahead these days.

Gerard

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2013, 03:09:21 PM »
A conversation not to have:

Friend: My life sucks.
Me: What are you going to do about it?
Friend: I hate you.

AlmostIndependent

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2013, 10:58:27 PM »
A conversation not to have:

Friend: My life sucks.
Me: What are you going to do about it?
Friend: I hate you.

God. If I had a nickel for every time I've had that conversation...

FiveSigmas

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2013, 11:05:04 PM »
A conversation not to have:

Friend: My life sucks.
Me: What are you going to do about it?
Friend: I hate you.

Heh! I've had that conversation between me and myself on occasion, and even coming from myself it's sometimes hard to take.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2013, 07:36:36 AM »
A conversation not to have:

Friend: My life sucks.
Me: It's your fault. (What they hear)
Friend: I hate you.

Fixed it for you.

MrsPete

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2013, 01:23:31 PM »
People don't like unsolicited advice (and sometimes solicited advice) about how to manage their money.  Many, if not most, people seem to have convinced themselves that they "cannot" get ahead for whatever reason:  I have kids, I have student loans or medical bills or credit card bills, I'm stuck in a car lease, whatever.  None of these situations are unique, yet people use them to "excuse themselves" from having managed their money well.  If you're doing better on a similar salary, they'll figure you had some luck in some way. 

So what?  It's not your job to convince other people to live a frugal lifestyle.  If the topic comes up, say that you're embracing this philosophy.  If the person is receptive, give 'em "the talk".  If not, drop it. 

You don't have to agree with someone's financial choices -- for the most part -- to be friends with them.  For example, a couple days ago one of my coworkers mentioned she was leasing a new car.  About 1/3 of the people at the table commented that they think leasing is a great option.  The general feeling seemed to be that they know leasing is an expensive option, but they want to drive a new car on a regular basis and are willing to accept that they'll have a car payment for the rest of their lives.  I needed to add something to the conversation just to be social, so I just made a vague comment about it all comes down to priorities.  No one really paid any attention, but no one's feelings were hurt either.

kyleaaa

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2013, 02:24:35 PM »
Why are you deflated by other people?

Because I want them to listen and understand and experience it, and they're writing it off as being impossible and not for them, which is so stupid and short-sighted that it frustrates me.

But I'm going to have to leave them to figure it out for themselves.

It is neither stupid nor short-sighted for them to write it off. It's not for everyone. You have to accept the fact that they just might be happier making the opposite decision you do.

That would be true if they weren't also complaining about how hard it is to get ahead these days.

I don't see how that changes anything. Maybe getting ahead isn't as important to them as other things. Doesn't make it wrong of them to complain about it, though. Doesn't make them unhappy, either.

pbkmaine

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2013, 02:53:44 PM »
Since I used to do financial planning for a living, friends often come to me for advice. I recommend Your Money or Your Life or The Complete Tightwad Gazette and then see what happens. If they read them, I know they are interested, and we talk further. I tell everyone I know that I hate to spend money and that I am cheap. Everyone knows that I only buy Starbucks with the gift cards my stepdaughters buy me for Christmas and my birthday. Because I have been up front about it, it's not an issue. I have never tried to hide my lifestyle. If people don't like it, we don't have to be friends. But surprise, I have found over the years that I have helped influence quite a few people. Just live your life the way that is best for you. More people than you think are noticing. 

jpo

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2013, 03:44:23 PM »
I am mostly the same as pbkmaine, most people know I am cheap. Several have asked specific questions which I answer readily. Hardly ever give unsolicited advice or comments that could be taken negatively, I just say nothing instead.

dragoncar

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2013, 11:36:46 PM »
Why are you deflated by other people?

Because I want them to listen and understand and experience it, and they're writing it off as being impossible and not for them, which is so stupid and short-sighted that it frustrates me.

But I'm going to have to leave them to figure it out for themselves.

It is neither stupid nor short-sighted for them to write it off. It's not for everyone. You have to accept the fact that they just might be happier making the opposite decision you do.

That would be true if they weren't also complaining about how hard it is to get ahead these days.

I don't see how that changes anything. Maybe getting ahead isn't as important to them as other things. Doesn't make it wrong of them to complain about it, though. Doesn't make them unhappy, either.

Other things like complaining.  Really, nothing on earth is more important than complaining.  It annoys me!

hybrid

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2013, 12:24:22 PM »
OP, you remind me of someone who has just found religion and is so incredibly excited about it that they cannot help but share their experience with everyone else.  Here is the ugly truth, people don't like that guy.

With something as radical to mainstream consumerism as MMM you can't just go off singing from the top of your lungs from the rooftops, people will think you a loon.  Pick your conversations, ease people into what you have discovered.  I am one of those who also gets excited about new things and being very outgoing I want to share that, but know this, a lot of people are not going to react to it well at all.  Especially if their financial picture is considerably less than rosy.  All you are doing is pointing out what a screw-up with money they are.  No one wants to hear that out of the blue.  As transformative as MMM has been for me, there are a lot of people I simply let observe the changes rather than explain them.  When I resigned from the country club the last thing I did was tell folks who were not financially independent what idiots they were, I merely told them I was trying to get the missus to early retirement for physical and mental sanity reasons (all true) and left it at that.

People who are open to doing the math will do the math.  The rest you will never reach.  And there will always be more of the latter.

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2013, 02:44:51 PM »
Quote
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.”  --Dr. Seuss
I am a big believer in this philosophy (when it comes to friends; family gets a different set of rules).

My completely judgmental observation: People who take opinions on issues as personal attacks are most likely people who really don't want to improve themselves or the world around them.  Life got easier for me when I accepted this and decided to spend my time with people who inspired me in some way.  If a person is mastering an area of life better than I am, I generally feel awe and guilt when first around them.  Those original feelings usually turn into motivation the more I hang out with that person. :) So when I have that initial discomfort, I take it as a cue to strike up a friendship.

I disagree on plenty of issues with my closest friends but we feel safe enough to be vulnerable and trust that our friendship can handle differences of opinion. Of course, I've lost friends before because we've disagreed on issues.  It's sad, but I don't think I should have had to hide who I am in order to make them happy.

But YMMV.  We all have different strategies in dealing with others and the amount of confrontation we can handle.  That's okay.  The world would be boring if we were all alike.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 02:49:31 PM by avonlea »

brewer12345

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2013, 05:02:44 PM »
I am about to be on the opposite end of the tunnel with substantially similar problems.  After over 15 years of hard work, careful saving and astute investing, I am about to pull the plug and quit the day job.  I have been hinting to family for a while what is in the offing so they are prepared.  However, friends and colleagues are highly unlikely to get it and I am sure some will be upset by the implied criticism of them or whatever.  On DW's advice I have a plausible cover story prepared, but it irks me to have to hide the hard-won success of 15 years of effort.

brewer12345

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2013, 07:43:03 PM »
Why do you feel you can't be upfront about it and have to hide it?

Personally, I could not give a flying reproductive act, although I would not want to rub anyone's nose in it.  DW is the social one and the empathy, though, and she tells me this is not to be trotted out in the open.  We've been married for 17 years and together for 20.  I understand certain things she does not and vice versa.  This is her territory, so I will listen even though it rubs me the wrong way a bit.

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2013, 08:06:17 PM »
I have had a variety of disappointing conversations with folks over the last 3 years. First was how my DHs family could not understand how it was that he quit his job when other family members cannot find a job. It was very uncomfortable. I finally sat his dad down and for the first time in 24 years I opened mint and let him look at our finances. He perused them then told my husband, "keep this woman!"

Later I tried to imbue the sense of frugality to my mother. OMG what a horrible conversation that was, I just plain gave up.

Just reunited with a long lost friend, after about 12 years. I did warm him up to my financial strategies, his family is even worse than my family. That went ok but I was so disheartened that his income will make any FI planning nearly impossible. He really needs to 1. find a roommate living situation, but wont, and 2. work at changing his career, or take a leadership role after 17 years in his field ($16/hour).

I never, ever talk about anything financial at work. I did have to tell my boss about our first duplex (cant remember the exact circumstances now), he saw the picture and asked, so are you buying the whole building or just one half? When I said the entire building his face was like....wow... He is out of state and where he lives a duplex would be very expensive. I've kept quiet since then. Also at work I never pay for lunch and sometimes that causes a stir since I don't ever want to run out and get Teriyaki, Thai or a burger...ever. I just thank them and say I brought my lunch.

I really, really want to go over my sister in law's financials, they are in some dire straights, but I don't know how to approach her on it. She knows her brother is "retired" because we want it that way (I would not say we planned it, but when we looked at our numbers it made sense for us). We drive used cars, own property, live in an older home and are not keeping up with any Joneses. We have remodeled this old home ourselves and its nice, but not fancy or large or anything. She always looks stressed and unhappy and I know that they are not good at finances. But what can you do?

I would say work on your probing strategy and be excited when you find a kindred spirit:)

kudy

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2013, 09:43:40 PM »
When the subjects come up, I've been fairly open with everyone I know (including co-workers) about how I am choosing to live my life, and my reasoning. I find that *most* people think I'm a little eccentric, but generally accept it - no one has really gotten angry at me. I guess I am lucky, or maybe I just have awesome people in my life? I haven't ever gotten really in-depth with evangelizing, but I often find myself saying that I want to retire in my 40's and similar things. I think I should probably stop saying that, and come up with a better way to communicate what I'm trying to do with my life, but it's worked so far.

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Re: Deflated by other people's reactions
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2013, 06:25:42 PM »
 Well, I agree with you on many points. However, among your friends, you will eventually find a "fellow traveler" who does want to become wealthy, (Or is verrry wealthy but you would never/do not know it if you are in your 30s or 40s)). The fellow travelers you meet will become very good friends and sounding boards.  If you read The Millionaire Next Door, you will see that the principles expounded by this blog are not new. (I love this blog!). It is the tried and true way to financial independence. Spend less than you earn and invest the difference in something that goes up in value.  As in anything,well most things- keep at it and you will be successful.