Author Topic: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad  (Read 4152 times)

wonkette

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Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« on: March 11, 2019, 05:41:35 PM »
https://www.autonews.com/sales/debt-saddled-buyers-lean-mom-dad

I actually have sympathy for many of the young adults in this article except for this one

"Though he considers his children financially responsible, DeLozier said they have made some costly mistakes with their vehicles.

A few years after he bought his daughter-in-law a used Toyota Camry, she called him from the road.

"We call that DadStar 'cause they would call me and say, 'Dad, I'm on the freeway, and something's making a funny noise,' " DeLozier said. "She's a young professional, a biostatistician, but she's no car mechanic."

His daughter-in-law had never gotten an oil change, he said, and the Camry's engine had thrown a rod."


Just Joe

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 01:33:58 PM »
Wow - failure on both of them. Dad should have explained the need for basic vehicle maintenance. Daughter should have asked - or read the car's owner's manual.

I knew someone who bought a new car and didn't do an oil change. Car lasted a long time surprisingly but in the end it was toast after several tens of thousands of miles.

My first thought is "intellectually lazy". Every adult ought to learn the basics about their vehicles, their home and their appliances. The owner's manual provides this info.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 02:17:14 PM »
Wow - failure on both of them. Dad should have explained the need for basic vehicle maintenance. Daughter should have asked - or read the car's owner's manual.

I knew someone who bought a new car and didn't do an oil change. Car lasted a long time surprisingly but in the end it was toast after several tens of thousands of miles.

My first thought is "intellectually lazy". Every adult ought to learn the basics about their vehicles, their home and their appliances. The owner's manual provides this info.
That's daughter in law...the son is 28 and also did not know about oil changes.

That's two sets of parents that are involved. The other set is far more intelligent, they can see that the inlaws will purchase a new car.

Just Joe

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 03:03:11 PM »
Yep, I skipped over a few details the family relations. Still at least learn that the car needs its fluids changed from time to time and know when. Also know how the check the fluid levels.

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 06:36:14 AM »
https://www.autonews.com/sales/debt-saddled-buyers-lean-mom-dad

A few years after he bought his daughter-in-law a used Toyota Camry, she called him from the road.

"We call that DadStar 'cause they would call me and say, 'Dad, I'm on the freeway, and something's making a funny noise,' " DeLozier said. "She's a young professional, a biostatistician, but she's no car mechanic."

His daughter-in-law had never gotten an oil change, he said, and the Camry's engine had thrown a rod."

And depending on the year/engine, they can DRINK oil like a mother effers, and the engine dies of oil starvation.  Gotta be especially up on checking the oil with these, other Toyota models, and other makes too.  Toyota and Scion have issued a fix/recall for certain models, where they will basically rebuild the lower half of the engine if found defective, to address the issue.  Big culprit was the 4 cyl, 2AZ-FE engine used in a ton of vehicles.  I have seen these engines run almost dry, even within a very conservative 3k change interval. 

IMO and pro mechanic experience, use nothing but the proper full synthetic oil at your first oil change, to help alleviate issues.  But be aware that manufacturers are really full of BS, when they say using a qt of oil per 1000 km/600 miles is normal...  Um, yeah...  Ever see what a super dense input of hydrocarbon and anti-wear material exhaust gas does to catalytic converters? 

PDXTabs

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 12:27:04 PM »
And depending on the year/engine, they can DRINK oil like a mother effers, and the engine dies of oil starvation.  Gotta be especially up on checking the oil with these, other Toyota models, and other makes too.  Toyota and Scion have issued a fix/recall for certain models, where they will basically rebuild the lower half of the engine if found defective, to address the issue.  Big culprit was the 4 cyl, 2AZ-FE engine used in a ton of vehicles.  I have seen these engines run almost dry, even within a very conservative 3k change interval. 

IMO and pro mechanic experience, use nothing but the proper full synthetic oil at your first oil change, to help alleviate issues.  But be aware that manufacturers are really full of BS, when they say using a qt of oil per 1000 km/600 miles is normal...  Um, yeah...  Ever see what a super dense input of hydrocarbon and anti-wear material exhaust gas does to catalytic converters?

Yea, boxer engines (Porsche, Subaru) are even worse. At least in the 80s Porsche said 1qt/1000 miles was within design spec. The oil ring/cylinder wall problem is a hard one, but somehow my Ford Focus uses ~1qt over 10,000 miles.

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 10:04:07 PM »
I actually worked at a Toyota dealer for a bit, and getting cars in that had never had oil changes was a surprisingly common thing.  We got a Camry in one time, I think it was a 98 or 99 (this was in 2005/6) and it had never had an oil change.  Engine was a 4 cylinder and was almost toast, but it did still run and drive.  Unfortunately I don't recall how many miles were on it.  Took the valve cover off and it literally had a SECOND valve cover inside made out of oil sludge that had gone rock-hard.  Also had a Sienna come in that was around 3 or 4 years old at the time and had never had an oil change, had a 3L V6 that was completely shot.  Needless to say I'm pretty religious about changing the oil in my cars. 

ixtap

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 10:13:35 PM »
My Dad co signed for my first car loan. It was a 10 year old low mileage Ford Festiva that I paid off in less than a year, but did start building credit with.

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2019, 12:06:29 PM »
I actually worked at a Toyota dealer for a bit, and getting cars in that had never had oil changes was a surprisingly common thing.  We got a Camry in one time, I think it was a 98 or 99 (this was in 2005/6) and it had never had an oil change.  Engine was a 4 cylinder and was almost toast, but it did still run and drive.  Unfortunately I don't recall how many miles were on it.  Took the valve cover off and it literally had a SECOND valve cover inside made out of oil sludge that had gone rock-hard.  Also had a Sienna come in that was around 3 or 4 years old at the time and had never had an oil change, had a 3L V6 that was completely shot.  Needless to say I'm pretty religious about changing the oil in my cars.

I too worked at a Toyota dealership, and was a service manager for a national chain for pre-owned vehicles...  Boy, what I have seen and repaired!  Also what I have heard from customers, and seen like you have concerning oil changes, etc.  I will say, I have seen 1987-1991 Toyota Camry engines nearly run dry of oil (3SF-FE), still run OK after nearly seizing...  They do not IMO build them like this anymore.   

Although I do believe Toyota did have some design flaws concerning piston design (skirt hole size, and ring design/material), and less than optimal PCV systems, piss poor maintenance really turbo-charged the situation.  I'm lucky to have also been the training director for a chain of quick-lubes, and have an uncle who is a petroleum engineer...  We used to talk a lot about the real nitty-gritty of the oil business, and without any doubt, true 100% synthetic oils with the proper additive package, using the proper viscosity will alleviate almost all of the problems.

I too have seen the v6 you mention (1MZ-FE) that I remember calling what you mention "valve cover brownies", because that is what it looked like with the valve cover pulled.  Toyota did *try* to address the situation as you may recall, with there "abnormal gelling" campaign, but if you used good synthetic oils, changed at least on the normal service schedule, you would have been pretty much spared.

Also, the 2AZ-FE I mentioned, had some issues with pulled head bolts at the very back of the engine...  You would see the foam insulator in this area soaked with coolant, and sure enough the middle three bolts would have pulled out of the block, with three stripped holes.  I think after 2005/2006 a change was made to the block to have longer thread holes in the block.  Toyota is a fine vehicle overall, but like them all, even the Japanese, they have plenty of problems such as the well known issues with Subaru and the RIDICULOUS problems Honda is having with their 1.5 turbo engines concerning oil dilution with fuel...  Can you say wiped out bearings!

To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.


Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2019, 12:14:41 PM »
My Dad co signed for my first car loan. It was a 10 year old low mileage Ford Festiva that I paid off in less than a year, but did start building credit with.

Those were cool little cars.  Built in Korea, with all Mazda driveline parts.  Great little car, and the most bad ass Army Ranger I ever served with, had one when we were both stationed at Ft. Benning.  I had a Mazda 323; so much for us needing a big ego machine for compensation.

PDXTabs

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2019, 12:21:36 PM »
To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

This. So much this. If Honda would sell me a brand new 1993 Honda Accord Wagon, I would buy it.

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2019, 01:15:42 PM »
To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

This. So much this. If Honda would sell me a brand new 1993 Honda Accord Wagon, I would buy it.

Amen brother.  I had a Japanese made 94 Accord sedan with a 5 sp manual and 2.4L engine...  Jesus, the level of quality, and workmanship was amazing.  I tried like hell to have a coworker sell me his Accord wagon around 2001, but he never would...  They go for a pretty penny today, for a nice one.  The v6 Camry wagon was the shiznit too, as was the Mazda6 wagon.  Hell, you could get them both (4 cyl for the camry) with a MT too! 

Nice roomy comfortable seats not bolstered like an F1 seat/straight jacket, a center console not able to fit a large pizza box flatwise, all analog gauges, switches, and controls, good road feel with hyd steering, smooth comfortable ride (hey, I don't want to feel every GD seam in the asphalt), NON-sealed auto trans you could service in 10 mins, no GD CVT trans, no GD tablet screen glued to the dash, or the never ending chips, beeps, or chimes distracting you...  Yeah, you actually had to drive the car, and it was actually enjoyable.

I drove some late model Mazda6 sedans, and a Mazda3 hatch yesterday, and kept telling the salesdroid if you had a newer 6 wagon today priced right, I'd buy it with cash RIGHT NOW.  I hate how wagons are so rare today, where they used to be the bread and butter of many from years gone by.  Yep, 'Mericans hate the wagon, like this ugly M'effer:


JAYSLOL

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2019, 01:28:03 PM »
I actually worked at a Toyota dealer for a bit, and getting cars in that had never had oil changes was a surprisingly common thing.  We got a Camry in one time, I think it was a 98 or 99 (this was in 2005/6) and it had never had an oil change.  Engine was a 4 cylinder and was almost toast, but it did still run and drive.  Unfortunately I don't recall how many miles were on it.  Took the valve cover off and it literally had a SECOND valve cover inside made out of oil sludge that had gone rock-hard.  Also had a Sienna come in that was around 3 or 4 years old at the time and had never had an oil change, had a 3L V6 that was completely shot.  Needless to say I'm pretty religious about changing the oil in my cars.

I too worked at a Toyota dealership, and was a service manager for a national chain for pre-owned vehicles...  Boy, what I have seen and repaired!  Also what I have heard from customers, and seen like you have concerning oil changes, etc.  I will say, I have seen 1987-1991 Toyota Camry engines nearly run dry of oil (3SF-FE), still run OK after nearly seizing...  They do not IMO build them like this anymore.   

Although I do believe Toyota did have some design flaws concerning piston design (skirt hole size, and ring design/material), and less than optimal PCV systems, piss poor maintenance really turbo-charged the situation.  I'm lucky to have also been the training director for a chain of quick-lubes, and have an uncle who is a petroleum engineer...  We used to talk a lot about the real nitty-gritty of the oil business, and without any doubt, true 100% synthetic oils with the proper additive package, using the proper viscosity will alleviate almost all of the problems.

I too have seen the v6 you mention (1MZ-FE) that I remember calling what you mention "valve cover brownies", because that is what it looked like with the valve cover pulled.  Toyota did *try* to address the situation as you may recall, with there "abnormal gelling" campaign, but if you used good synthetic oils, changed at least on the normal service schedule, you would have been pretty much spared.

Also, the 2AZ-FE I mentioned, had some issues with pulled head bolts at the very back of the engine...  You would see the foam insulator in this area soaked with coolant, and sure enough the middle three bolts would have pulled out of the block, with three stripped holes.  I think after 2005/2006 a change was made to the block to have longer thread holes in the block.  Toyota is a fine vehicle overall, but like them all, even the Japanese, they have plenty of problems such as the well known issues with Subaru and the RIDICULOUS problems Honda is having with their 1.5 turbo engines concerning oil dilution with fuel...  Can you say wiped out bearings!

To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

Yes!  I also had a 94 Camry, that was one solid car.  I still have a 95 Tercel with 330k and it runs like new, Im pretty convinced it's not possible for this car to die as long i as keep doing basic maintenance and don't wrap it around a tree. 

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2019, 01:47:08 PM »
I love Tercels...  At one time, I had so many at my home, I was called "Admiral Tercel" because of my fleet of them.  I specialized in early to mid 80's ones (3-TC engines) I'd pick up for as little as a $100, and fix some issues.  Most were in need of only a nice "tune-up", but one I had to replace the clutch disc and pressure plate.  Rust was pretty bad with them too.  Worst problem was with their vac assisted variable venturi carbs, that were a real pain to get right.  Most times I would bypass most of the crap, install a manual choke and be done with it. 

It was between a new 87 Tercel or Mazda 323, and I went with the new 323...  It was a much better deal, I'd even say a better car at the time, as it had really good Hitachi fuel injection since the 86 model (carb in the Tercel), better rear suspension, more room, more pep, and easier to service.  I LOVED that 5 sp manual 323, and really miss it.  Pre ZOOM-ZOOM at its best, I thrashed that car, and it begged for more.

Dave1442397

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2019, 02:13:56 PM »
To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

This. So much this. If Honda would sell me a brand new 1993 Honda Accord Wagon, I would buy it.

Not new, but...   https://jalopnik.com/does-its-3-900-price-make-this-1991-honda-accord-ex-a-1833259310

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2019, 02:44:07 PM »
To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

This. So much this. If Honda would sell me a brand new 1993 Honda Accord Wagon, I would buy it.

Not new, but...   https://jalopnik.com/does-its-3-900-price-make-this-1991-honda-accord-ex-a-1833259310

Ironic; saw that today in my Android suggested reading, but did not read it until you posted a link.  Nice ride, but no way I'd pay close to that, especially with an auto trans...  Seen too many from Honda and Acura bite the dust, and still not sure I'd buy even the newer ones.  Sure as hell a no-go with their current CVT crap for sure.

Another biggie with this era of Accord was power steering racks going bad, due to improper servicing.  Folks would add/do a fluid exchange with a generic pwr steering fluid/Dexron instead of the proper Honda spec fluid, and the rack would leak a lot.  The non Honda approved fluids did not have a certain additive that preserved and maintained the seals in the rack/pump, and it caused the death off the system.

These engines also had a timing and balance shaft belt, and a waterpump driven by the T-belt...  Have seen waterpumps that seized, destroying the belt along with the valve stems.  Mazda had a v belt run the pump, Toyota used a T-belt driven pump too, but the engine was non-interference, so if the T-belt snapped, no big deal to the engine.

PDXTabs

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2019, 06:34:37 PM »
Nice ride, but no way I'd pay close to that, especially with an auto trans...  Seen too many from Honda and Acura bite the dust, and still not sure I'd buy even the newer ones.  Sure as hell a no-go with their current CVT crap for sure.

I might pay that for a cherry manual, but I swore off autotragic transmissions years ago (from my '84 Accord actually - side note: computer controlled carburetors were a bad idea). I currently drive a 2014 Focus hatchback with a manual. The last new car left for us might be a new Mazda3, but it's going to have a dumb touchscreen...

Hopefully in ~10 years I can be done with car ownership all together, which is a funny thing to say since I've changed head gaskets, clutches, and timing belts on my own.

I love Tercels...  At one time, I had so many at my home, I was called "Admiral Tercel" because of my fleet of them.  I specialized in early to mid 80's ones (3-TC engines) I'd pick up for as little as a $100, and fix some issues.  Most were in need of only a nice "tune-up", but one I had to replace the clutch disc and pressure plate.  Rust was pretty bad with them too.  Worst problem was with their vac assisted variable venturi carbs, that were a real pain to get right.  Most times I would bypass most of the crap, install a manual choke and be done with it. 

That's a neat story.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 06:37:27 PM by PDXTabs »

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
Nice ride, but no way I'd pay close to that, especially with an auto trans...  Seen too many from Honda and Acura bite the dust, and still not sure I'd buy even the newer ones.  Sure as hell a no-go with their current CVT crap for sure.

I might pay that for a cherry manual, but I swore off autotragic transmissions years ago (from my '84 Accord actually - side note: computer controlled carburetors were a bad idea). I currently drive a 2014 Focus hatchback with a manual. The last new car left for us might be a new Mazda3, but it's going to have a dumb touchscreen...

Hopefully in ~10 years I can be done with car ownership all together, which is a funny thing to say since I've changed head gaskets, clutches, and timing belts on my own.

I love Tercels...  At one time, I had so many at my home, I was called "Admiral Tercel" because of my fleet of them.  I specialized in early to mid 80's ones (3-TC engines) I'd pick up for as little as a $100, and fix some issues.  Most were in need of only a nice "tune-up", but one I had to replace the clutch disc and pressure plate.  Rust was pretty bad with them too.  Worst problem was with their vac assisted variable venturi carbs, that were a real pain to get right.  Most times I would bypass most of the crap, install a manual choke and be done with it. 

That's a neat story.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

I'm down to a cherry 2006 Toyota Matrix base, 5 sp manual, 1ZZ-FE 4 cyl engine.  Only has 79k miles, and runs like a top.  My days of manuals may be coming to an end, due to knee pain, and I hate it.  Just yesterday I looked at a 2018 Mazda 3 hatch with an auto trans, and 2.5L 4 cyl engine.  It was nice, but my God all the crap gadgets, HUGE expensive tires, and that giant LCD panel stuck in the dash...  YUCK.  Sat in a 2019 Mazda3, and it was very nice too, but way too much $$$.

Liked that it was all made in Japan, while the 2018, and most others were made in Mexico, including the engine.  No slam to Mexico, just the same I want made in Japan.  It will be weird for me too, when I stop working on vehicles...  Been doing it since before 18, and literally have no idea what it's like to have other hands do maintenance or repairs on my vehicles, outside of TSB's, recalls, etc.

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 08:30:03 PM »
I actually worked at a Toyota dealer for a bit, and getting cars in that had never had oil changes was a surprisingly common thing.  We got a Camry in one time, I think it was a 98 or 99 (this was in 2005/6) and it had never had an oil change.  Engine was a 4 cylinder and was almost toast, but it did still run and drive.  Unfortunately I don't recall how many miles were on it.  Took the valve cover off and it literally had a SECOND valve cover inside made out of oil sludge that had gone rock-hard.  Also had a Sienna come in that was around 3 or 4 years old at the time and had never had an oil change, had a 3L V6 that was completely shot.  Needless to say I'm pretty religious about changing the oil in my cars.

I too worked at a Toyota dealership, and was a service manager for a national chain for pre-owned vehicles...  Boy, what I have seen and repaired!  Also what I have heard from customers, and seen like you have concerning oil changes, etc.  I will say, I have seen 1987-1991 Toyota Camry engines nearly run dry of oil (3SF-FE), still run OK after nearly seizing...  They do not IMO build them like this anymore.   

Although I do believe Toyota did have some design flaws concerning piston design (skirt hole size, and ring design/material), and less than optimal PCV systems, piss poor maintenance really turbo-charged the situation.  I'm lucky to have also been the training director for a chain of quick-lubes, and have an uncle who is a petroleum engineer...  We used to talk a lot about the real nitty-gritty of the oil business, and without any doubt, true 100% synthetic oils with the proper additive package, using the proper viscosity will alleviate almost all of the problems.

I too have seen the v6 you mention (1MZ-FE) that I remember calling what you mention "valve cover brownies", because that is what it looked like with the valve cover pulled.  Toyota did *try* to address the situation as you may recall, with there "abnormal gelling" campaign, but if you used good synthetic oils, changed at least on the normal service schedule, you would have been pretty much spared.

Also, the 2AZ-FE I mentioned, had some issues with pulled head bolts at the very back of the engine...  You would see the foam insulator in this area soaked with coolant, and sure enough the middle three bolts would have pulled out of the block, with three stripped holes.  I think after 2005/2006 a change was made to the block to have longer thread holes in the block.  Toyota is a fine vehicle overall, but like them all, even the Japanese, they have plenty of problems such as the well known issues with Subaru and the RIDICULOUS problems Honda is having with their 1.5 turbo engines concerning oil dilution with fuel...  Can you say wiped out bearings!

To be honest, I'm so effing sick of all of the BS newer vehicles deal with, and wish I still had my Japanese made 1994 Camry (owned 20 yrs when I donated it).  To me it represented the nexus of true build quality, luxury level comfort, absolute reliability, and simple servicing w/o all the GD rolling i-phone crap everyone seems to want these days.

Yes!  I also had a 94 Camry, that was one solid car.  I still have a 95 Tercel with 330k and it runs like new, Im pretty convinced it's not possible for this car to die as long i as keep doing basic maintenance and don't wrap it around a tree.

I agree with you.

I tore down a Tercel 3A engine with probably close to as many miles, it was not well taken care of, and it still had cross hatching on the cylinder walls from the day it was built, and the cam looked great.  These older Toyota engines were such a pleasure; lots of room to work on them (clutch replacement on the longitudinal engine was a bitch however), they ran smooth and reasonably quiet at idle in a sort or agricultural way, lots of iron, and IMO were VERY overbuilt and almost indestructible.  Even if the valves got a bit sloppy, a quick adjustment got it back in shape in no time. 

I had one I tried to kill, running it to redline for nearly every shift, taking it off-road, burnouts, whatever, and it just laughed at it, bad synchros and popping out of gear and all.  About the only thing that 'killed' them was their propensity for cancer like rust, that would ruin the unibody, rear strut/shock towers, etc.  Man I miss these old cheap beaters.  BTW, I added this photo, that is exactly like the one I tried to kill, cept it was silver.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 08:33:53 PM by Holyoak »

Travis

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2019, 09:18:23 PM »


"We call that DadStar 'cause they would call me and say, 'Dad, I'm on the freeway, and something's making a funny noise,' " DeLozier said. "She's a young professional, a biostatistician, but she's no car mechanic."

His daughter-in-law had never gotten an oil change, he said, and the Camry's engine had thrown a rod."

Professional, educated, and was blissfully unaware that her car had a bunch of flashing lights on the dash for thousands of miles prior to this incident? Did she think the orange light was a new decoration after her first 8000 miles?  The car had to have trouble starting or was screaming for mercy prior to finally throwing a rod.


The first half of that article could have been shortened to "I'm going to coddle my children and blame their inability to live within their means on their student loans."  One child spent $100k on a music degree (no shit she's going to have trouble paying it off [oh wait, the father is paying half of that too]), and another can't afford a normal car loan, but still needs a $20k car.  This is the same person who wasn't carrying enough insurance to replace the car he totaled hitting a deer previously.

Quote
"She's got a car now because I was able to afford a new car," he said. "That trickle-down effect gave two other people better rides."

But not every parent can afford to help their children in the same way.

You're not helping them. You're absolving them of having to make difficult financial decisions and gaining experience.

Quote
"No one has a gun to our heads," he said. "I can tell my daughter, 'You have to make a two-hour bus commute into Cleveland every day to go work at the hospital.' I suppose I could tell her that.

"You want your children to succeed, so you basically say, what am I capable of doing for them?"

You can tell her to buy a $5000 used car and spend 15 minutes a week on Youtube to figure out how to live with it.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 09:39:31 PM by Travis »

Just Joe

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2019, 07:29:15 AM »
I drove some late model Mazda6 sedans, and a Mazda3 hatch yesterday, and kept telling the salesdroid if you had a newer 6 wagon today priced right, I'd buy it with cash RIGHT NOW.  I hate how wagons are so rare today, where they used to be the bread and butter of many from years gone by.  Yep, 'Mericans hate the wagon, like this ugly M'effer:

AND the car manufacturers could offer larger wagons for people who don't like "small cars" aka Accord/Mazda6/Maxima. I know these aren't small cars but to a big truck or SUV driver they might seem like it.

I'd like to see more minivans, wagons and other than 4WD type vehicles on the road personally. Sure - trucks and SUVs when necessary but not as the default option.

I like the Buick wagon that is on sale right now. I don't need another car right now so I can't vote with my dollars. They'll cancel it before I need another car.

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2019, 08:03:22 AM »
True Joe.  I did research the Buick wagon, but the new base price is about 30k, and used ones have not dropped far enough yet to consider.  I agree too, these will most likely be dropped soon just like the Dodge Magnum and Ford Freestyle tried, and died quickly years ago.  Seems the Ford Flex (super stretch Scion xB) is still being made, but they start north of $30k too. 

Although small, the Mazda5 is a neat 'little' minivan but just did not seem to take off...  Mazda is just too small a company compared to the real biggies.  Shame too, as I find Mazda 'just gets it', better than many of the others.

Just Joe

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2019, 09:02:48 AM »
Cheap gas and easy credit. 'Murica!

Do I want to drive a Chevy Spark or a Ford Explorer across four states to the beach? Hmmmm...

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 10:30:25 AM »
Cheap gas and easy credit. 'Murica!

Do I want to drive a Chevy Spark or a Ford Explorer across four states to the beach? Hmmmm...

Yep, and it better go 0-60 in 3 seconds or it's SLOOOOOOOOOW, guzzle fuel like a boss (no EV for a real man), and have break the laws of physics handling...  What bullshit!  I love watching Euro car reviews that feature the same model as sold in the US and Europe, but with engines we would call 'weak', or too slow, and oh my god with a manual transmission!!!...  Funny how them like me cruised on the autobahns at 100 mph+ in comfort and safety, but OMFG it took 2 extra seconds to hit 100 KPH/62 MPH.

I drove a 1980 Mazda 929 while I was stationed in Germany in the early 90's, and even with it's tiny 2L carbureted engine, and 5 sp manual trans, could routinely cruise at over 115 MPH all day.  My God, even cupholders were unheard of in German makes until the very end...  Germans believed cars are for driving, gausthauses for eating and drinking.  Even more crazy is do you remember how a 5-6 second to 60 car was INSANELY fast, not that many years back...  Toyota Camry v6's (2GR-FE) have been doing that for awhile, when in the 90's that was the territory of a BMW M5! 

My favorite Euro reviewer is a German named Thomas from "autogefuhl"...  So Teutonic it hurts, but on my wavelength to a T.

https://www.youtube.com/user/autogefuehl

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 12:07:12 PM »
Nice to see all the good words on Mazda.  I love my 2010 Maxda3Sport hatchback (>276,000 km and going strong).  But hatchback=/=wagon.  I still miss aspects of my old Subaru Outback.

And people who don't do maintenance are just plain stupid.  But common.  I have always done all the required maintenance on my cars (well, made sure it got done).  Had a hidden warranty honoured because of good maintenance, had my dealer want to buy my old car for a courtesy car (high mileage, great maintenance).

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 04:24:32 PM »
Dad bought my brother his first car in 2009 - a 1989 Camry for $3000 - so that he could pick up extra tutoring jobs. He put an insane number of kms on it, dinged it up, and reversed it out the driveway without shutting the drivers door, bending it right back (Dad and I beat it back into shape enough that it would close, if you slammed it, as his birthday present from us so that he could get back to his party, on the condition he also bought us pizza).

When the oil pump failed while he was driving his friends home one night, he didn't know what the dashboard light meant, so he just kept driving until the noise from the engine became unbearable. Dad, who originally trained as a mechanic, was near tears. He actually said "I feel like I've failed as a father". It hadn't occurred to him to teach his sons about their cars (as a daughter I had to sit through umpteen lectures on car safety). Dad and my brother spent weeks rebuilding the engine. It was the first time they had worked on something together, and it gave my mathematician/physicist brother an appreciation for things mechanical.

That car lasted almost 10 years. My brother went car shopping in December, by himself, while Dad was in spinal rehab after falling off a ladder. He chose a 1999 Camry for $5000.

That's how you help your kids out with cars...

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 04:49:49 PM »
That's a nice story Zhiantara.  Do you know if the 89 it was a 4 or six cylinder engine?  I love this generation of Camry.  Smallish, but very comfortable seating with great visibility, iron block for both engines with fuel injection, and you could even get a manual trans in some configurations, even in the wagon!  Only thing I did not like as I recall, was the motorized seat belts...  God I hated those in any car, and so glad when they went away.

Hope your dad is better too.

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2019, 07:23:19 AM »
No idea how many cylinders. He did love that car though.

And Dad is doing well, thanks :)

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2019, 08:15:22 AM »
No idea how many cylinders. He did love that car though.

And Dad is doing well, thanks :)

Thanks, and you're welcome...  Glad your Dad is well.

Just Joe

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2019, 08:23:46 AM »
Cheap gas and easy credit. 'Murica!

Do I want to drive a Chevy Spark or a Ford Explorer across four states to the beach? Hmmmm...

Yep, and it better go 0-60 in 3 seconds or it's SLOOOOOOOOOW, guzzle fuel like a boss (no EV for a real man), and have break the laws of physics handling...  What bullshit!  I love watching Euro car reviews that feature the same model as sold in the US and Europe, but with engines we would call 'weak', or too slow, and oh my god with a manual transmission!!!...  Funny how them like me cruised on the autobahns at 100 mph+ in comfort and safety, but OMFG it took 2 extra seconds to hit 100 KPH/62 MPH.

I drove a 1980 Mazda 929 while I was stationed in Germany in the early 90's, and even with it's tiny 2L carbureted engine, and 5 sp manual trans, could routinely cruise at over 115 MPH all day.  My God, even cupholders were unheard of in German makes until the very end...  Germans believed cars are for driving, gausthauses for eating and drinking.  Even more crazy is do you remember how a 5-6 second to 60 car was INSANELY fast, not that many years back...  Toyota Camry v6's (2GR-FE) have been doing that for awhile, when in the 90's that was the territory of a BMW M5! 

My favorite Euro reviewer is a German named Thomas from "autogefuhl"...  So Teutonic it hurts, but on my wavelength to a T.

https://www.youtube.com/user/autogefuehl

We drove these when I was living in Italy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTudnv2SyaA

Six passengers and a 900cc (0.9L) engine. It would do sixty MPH. Not really a good long distance tourer b/c of the low gearing and high interior noise HOWEVER they were great for local use at lower speeds. What's entertaining about 'Murica to me is that so many Americans need luxury even for local trips apparently. For local trips, I could get by with a 1930 Ford Model A. 

Be sure to check the end of that video Holyoak - you'll like how the van gets home.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 08:26:07 AM by Just Joe »

LiveLean

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2019, 02:35:51 PM »
We've had the same next-door neighbors 20 years so we've seen their kids grow up.

Daughter, now 30, became a teacher only to discover that teaching is hard. She quit and doctor dad helped her open a bar/boutique that she operates and serves as head bartender. She also got a dog (a freakin' Beagle) only to discover that taking care of a dog is hard. So parents (our next-door neighbors) now have a dog after being pet free for the first 17 years we lived next to them. Now we listen to freakin' Snoopy howling 24/7.

Daughter drives Jeep Wrangler Sahara, brand new. I guess I'm not surprised as doctor dad and SAHM have gone through a series of 3-year leases on every clown car imaginable: Benz, Audi, Lexus, Jag, BMW. I've calculated that those leases have run about $400,000 for two cars over 20 years.

Doctor dad is now 60-plus and I wonder if he's in any position to retire.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:44:09 PM by LiveLean »

Holyoak

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Re: Debt saddled car buyers lean on mom and dad
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2019, 02:54:53 PM »
Cheap gas and easy credit. 'Murica!

Do I want to drive a Chevy Spark or a Ford Explorer across four states to the beach? Hmmmm...

Yep, and it better go 0-60 in 3 seconds or it's SLOOOOOOOOOW, guzzle fuel like a boss (no EV for a real man), and have break the laws of physics handling...  What bullshit!  I love watching Euro car reviews that feature the same model as sold in the US and Europe, but with engines we would call 'weak', or too slow, and oh my god with a manual transmission!!!...  Funny how them like me cruised on the autobahns at 100 mph+ in comfort and safety, but OMFG it took 2 extra seconds to hit 100 KPH/62 MPH.

I drove a 1980 Mazda 929 while I was stationed in Germany in the early 90's, and even with it's tiny 2L carbureted engine, and 5 sp manual trans, could routinely cruise at over 115 MPH all day.  My God, even cupholders were unheard of in German makes until the very end...  Germans believed cars are for driving, gausthauses for eating and drinking.  Even more crazy is do you remember how a 5-6 second to 60 car was INSANELY fast, not that many years back...  Toyota Camry v6's (2GR-FE) have been doing that for awhile, when in the 90's that was the territory of a BMW M5! 

My favorite Euro reviewer is a German named Thomas from "autogefuhl"...  So Teutonic it hurts, but on my wavelength to a T.

https://www.youtube.com/user/autogefuehl

We drove these when I was living in Italy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTudnv2SyaA

Six passengers and a 900cc (0.9L) engine. It would do sixty MPH. Not really a good long distance tourer b/c of the low gearing and high interior noise HOWEVER they were great for local use at lower speeds. What's entertaining about 'Murica to me is that so many Americans need luxury even for local trips apparently. For local trips, I could get by with a 1930 Ford Model A. 

Be sure to check the end of that video Holyoak - you'll like how the van gets home.

Cool video, and I did indeed like the ending...  Over here it seems so weird to see a sedan/station wagon pulling a trailer, but no big deal over in Europe...  Saw it all the time.  Also saw the Agip gas station in the video, and it brought back great memories of Italy.  The Bolzano region IMO, is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen - The whole area of the Alps/Dolomites is simply jaw-droppingly stunning. Ciao.