Author Topic: Debt for Kids Activities  (Read 6524 times)

Raenia

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Debt for Kids Activities
« on: April 30, 2019, 07:25:09 AM »
https://www.comparecards.com/blog/8-in-10-parents-think-kids-extracurricular-activities-may-lead-to-income/

Apparently 80% of parents think that Timmy's little league team or Kristen's dance classes are going to lead directly to income for the child later in life, and more than half are willing to go into debt to give them that chance.

It's totally baffling to me.  I had music lessons all through school, and my sister was in soccer, but we never thought we would be professionals.  My teacher actually urged me not to consider going pro, even though I might have been good enough, because you have to move all the time, constant stress, and there's so little money in it.

ematicic

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 07:38:08 AM »
Considering that link is to "Compare Cards" it is targeted marketing to families that rely on Credit Cards, over savings. My kids are 5 and 6 and I want them to experience a plethora of activities such as swimming, music, martial arts and sports. Although I do not expect them to excel to the point of doing so professionally I believe there will be a pay off of sorts as far as confidence, social benefits and other intangible benefits that will make them more successful overall.


Raenia

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 07:44:13 AM »
Sure, I have no objection to doing lots of extracurriculars, as I said we had several ourselves that weren't cheap and I think they've added a lot to our lives.  I just object to going into debt or pressuring the kid to excel as an 'investment' in their future.  And just because it's basically an ad doesn't make the statistics less absurd!

I'd agree if parents were considering advantages in confidence, teamwork skills, general happiness, or even college admissions.  But it seems an absurd number of parents think their kid will make money directly from the activity, and not as a fringe benefit.

brandon1827

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 07:58:46 AM »
My son plays little league baseball right now. We play in a rec league in the city. Our head coach and 3 other coaches on the team all have their kids playing in this rec league; which has 2-3 games per week. They also concurrently play travel ball; which requires another couple of practices per week in addition to a tournament each weekend in a different city. On top of this, these kids also spend time with position coaches, trainers, etc. working on the game. I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it. I know everyone wants their kid to be great at something, but the percentage of kids that even get an athletics college scholarship...much less make it pro...is so tiny, that it seems like they're wasting time, money, and their kids childhood chasing a next to impossible dream. Related to this topic, I can't fathom the amount of money these people are spending on trainers, individual coaching, travelling, etc. for something that their kids seemingly don't really care about

SwordGuy

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2019, 08:55:03 PM »
My son plays little league baseball right now. We play in a rec league in the city. Our head coach and 3 other coaches on the team all have their kids playing in this rec league; which has 2-3 games per week. They also concurrently play travel ball; which requires another couple of practices per week in addition to a tournament each weekend in a different city. On top of this, these kids also spend time with position coaches, trainers, etc. working on the game. I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it. I know everyone wants their kid to be great at something, but the percentage of kids that even get an athletics college scholarship...much less make it pro...is so tiny, that it seems like they're wasting time, money, and their kids childhood chasing a next to impossible dream. Related to this topic, I can't fathom the amount of money these people are spending on trainers, individual coaching, travelling, etc. for something that their kids seemingly don't really care about

There are a lot of sad, pathetic people in the world that need their children to succeed at something they themselves failed at.

Step37

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 09:36:46 PM »
I have a friend who’s basically destitute, but his 13-year-old son plays minor hockey at an elite level (some paid by ex-wife, some paid by grandparents). Hope the kid makes the NHL so he can support his dad. Guessing the dad hopes so too, but would never say. I wonder if the son feel this (most likely unspoken) pressure. What a god-awful mess.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 02:19:14 AM »
We would never go into debt for our kids' activities but if parents' can afford them IMO extracurriculars are good for kids up to a point.  My kids both do scouts, older daughter does piano and kung fu.  Younger daughter does skating and will probably start swimming lessons soon.  Obviously, these are all optional but older daughter loves music and I hope that music will be a pleasurable hobby for life.  Sports are just fun for the kids and good discipline and IMO swimming is an essential life skill.  Scouting is just lots of fun for the kids as they love being outdoors.

IMO parents are delusional if they think their kids will make money from these hobbies though.  They are nice experiences and a good way of introducing kids to various things which they may enjoy and may or may not continue in adulthood. My sister is a professional musician but she is one in a million and even she doesn't make a good income -just enough to survive.

Malcat

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2019, 05:56:45 AM »
DH was visiting some fairly high income friends last weekend who have their 8 year old in hockey, but not seriously travel-league level or anything.

Well, the parents at this game got so fucking worked up that the police needed to be called. The fucking police, in a posh suburb, over a casual league game of hockey played by 8 year olds.

One dad threw a garbage can onto the ice while the kids were playing, it a fit of rage.

Parents are fucking nuts sometimes.
So yeah, if they can take 8 year old hockey games that seriously, I'm not surprised they're willing to take on debt to do it.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2019, 06:21:13 AM »
Malkynn - yikes.  That is seriously scary.  I hope it wasn't your husband's friend who threw the garbage can onto the ice.  What kind of example is that for a bunch of 8 year olds.  I've never seen anything like that here although back when my daughter played basketball she had to deal with same aggressive older boys who tried to shove her around.   

Parizade

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2019, 07:03:09 AM »
I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it.

As a single mother I just didn't have the energy to push something on my son if he wasn't interested so he wasn't as involved in sports. One day one of his exhausted young friends made the heart-wrenching comment that my son was lucky not to have a dad around because then he didn't have to participate in all the sports all the time.

kingxiaodi

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 08:22:14 AM »
I have a friend who’s basically destitute, but his 13-year-old son plays minor hockey at an elite level (some paid by ex-wife, some paid by grandparents). Hope the kid makes the NHL so he can support his dad. Guessing the dad hopes so too, but would never say. I wonder if the son feel this (most likely unspoken) pressure. What a god-awful mess.

I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong in this scenario...

brandon1827

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2019, 08:59:19 AM »
I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it.

As a single mother I just didn't have the energy to push something on my son if he wasn't interested so he wasn't as involved in sports. One day one of his exhausted young friends made the heart-wrenching comment that my son was lucky not to have a dad around because then he didn't have to participate in all the sports all the time.

That is so sad. I know lots of these baseball kids have no say in the matter. The dads coach and the kids play and they are never asked whether they want to play or not. We've tried to make a point of expressing to our son that baseball is fun and if he ever decides he doesn't want to do it, that's completely his decision and we will support him no matter what. It's amazing to watch these kids...you can easily tell the ones that are there for fun and the ones who are being pushed to play.

Parizade

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 11:50:45 AM »
I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it.

As a single mother I just didn't have the energy to push something on my son if he wasn't interested so he wasn't as involved in sports. One day one of his exhausted young friends made the heart-wrenching comment that my son was lucky not to have a dad around because then he didn't have to participate in all the sports all the time.

That is so sad. I know lots of these baseball kids have no say in the matter. The dads coach and the kids play and they are never asked whether they want to play or not. We've tried to make a point of expressing to our son that baseball is fun and if he ever decides he doesn't want to do it, that's completely his decision and we will support him no matter what. It's amazing to watch these kids...you can easily tell the ones that are there for fun and the ones who are being pushed to play.
It is heartbreaking, especially when you think about the sacrifices parents make to "be there" for their kids events. If it's stressing out the kids and it's stressing out the parents then really what's the point?

Just Joe

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 11:59:23 AM »
We enjoyed watching our kids play different sports for fun.

We quit a team where the coach was too driven. I watched him chew out his son for "throwing like a girl".

The girls on his team weren't very impressed with that comment judging by their faces.

mm1970

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 01:39:25 PM »
I find myself wondering when these kids ever have time to just be kids. I see how worn out they are all the time, and I see the coaches yelling at them and them not paying a bit of attention to it.

As a single mother I just didn't have the energy to push something on my son if he wasn't interested so he wasn't as involved in sports. One day one of his exhausted young friends made the heart-wrenching comment that my son was lucky not to have a dad around because then he didn't have to participate in all the sports all the time.
This is sad, and fascinating, at the same time.

I have a friend who is Chinese but moved to the US as a kid.  He LOVED sports.  His parents HATED sports.  Never let him play, but he was a darned good violinist.

His 3 kids are 2-3 sport athletes.

I tried a bunch of things but nothing stuck until 9th grade for me.  Husband is similar - he was in 12th grade.  So we like to PLAY but aren't really sports people.  And our kids are the same.  So we are fine putting them into soccer or baseball or whatever here and there...but the minute they don't want to do it anymore, they aren't doing it anymore.

I have a friend with 3 kids, and each kid is in 2-3 activities, like she doesn't want them MISSING OUT and well, everyone has to play 2 sports, and she's the team mom and her husband coaches and umps and ....  She complains a lot about not having any time, and follows it with "I bring this on myself."  And I say YES.  I do not allow two sports per kid, even if they wanted it - I'm not a chauffer.  I was fine with one sport and one music thing with kid #1, but when kid #2 added swim and soccer - that only lasted 2 months before I said "nope" (and that's with spouse taking on some of it too).  Right now my older kid is in once/ week music, and the younger one is in nothing.  But he loves swimming so we go to the pool on weekends.

So for my friend, kid 1 is in soccer and baseball and piano, and kid 2 is in soccer and karate and piano, and kid 3 is in soccer and dance and piano.  And two of them are only 5 years old, WTAF?  "I want them to do music, when is it normal to start??"  4th or 5th grade man.

My neighbor goes the whole other direction and actively discourages any sport that doesn't come with transportation.  So her kids will play soccer at school, but that's it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:41:21 PM by mm1970 »

Step37

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2019, 03:57:08 PM »
I have a friend who’s basically destitute, but his 13-year-old son plays minor hockey at an elite level (some paid by ex-wife, some paid by grandparents). Hope the kid makes the NHL so he can support his dad. Guessing the dad hopes so too, but would never say. I wonder if the son feel this (most likely unspoken) pressure. What a god-awful mess.

I'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong in this scenario...

OMG, that is fucking horrible. Dad has already claimed bankruptcy and is again eyeball deep in debt. He’s the kind of guy that would win a lottery and be worse off after five years (due to an inability to say no/disappoint anyone and terrible financial “skills”). So, I really, really hope that if this kid does make it, that he has good advisors. I don’t think my friend would do this to his kid by any means; I just wouldn’t trust him to manage a large sum prudently.

BFive55

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 08:16:23 PM »
If I have kids I hope they find a nice sandlot and play games there.

I'd sign them up for recreational leagues. I was in rec leagues and beside equipment costs (like $200-500 depending on the sport, but the equipment lasted multiple seasons) the fees were minimal, like $100. I played lacrosse and the vast majority of our games were at fields owned by a private school but where all the local teams played. We practices at a local elementary school 2-3 times a week.

I also swam at a local country club. Again, it was maybe a few hundred bucks to swim for 3-4 months in the summer every morning, with swim meets being a max 1 hour away.

Kids have no time to be kids. And once my kids (if I have kids) hit sophomore year in high school they're going to work a job.

I was involved in hiring at the last job I worked. We couldn't care one bit about the sports you played. We looked for job experience and were always wary of people who were applying to our field with no prior work experience (it's a high stress field with a lot of demands). I told one of the hiring managers I didn't care one bit if they were all stars on their football team in college or high school but had no work history. I valued work ethic far more, as that is an actual real-world skill that provides experience and learning. Playing sports is insanely static and regimented when you think about it and proves nothing.

If there were two applicants and one had worked a few years and during college while the other applicant was the football captain and basketball captain, the guy with prior work experience got the interview all other things being mostly equal.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 08:18:19 PM by BFive55 »

Freedomin5

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 03:59:53 AM »
I made money from my extracurricular activities, but my parents would never go into debt so I could have lessons.

I learned piano and wasn’t good enough to perform, but by Grade 10, I was good enough to teach four and five year olds. I also taught music theory and music history.

I also attended summer camp (same camp every year), and as soon as I turned 13, they “hired” me as a counselor in training.  By 15, I was a full-fledged counselor.

I also know several teens who swim, and they got hired by their school to be lifeguards and swim coaches for the younger kids.

Goldielocks

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2019, 08:35:56 PM »
For sports teams, quite a few opportunities to become a paid referee for the junior players.  That pays $30 a game.  Good employment for the 14-16 year old crowd that can't easily get other part time jobs.

For dance and gymnastics, around age 15-18, some students become assistant instructors, part time.

I think quite a few parents are hoping for a part time income for their kid, while they go to university....  or a sports scholarship.  (A little on the nose for the linked article to have a rowing picture?  anyway)...

You do not have to be on the "A" team to get these jobs, in fact, house league with lower costs is quite fine and has more time to pick up the part time work.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2019, 04:04:57 PM »
We enjoyed watching our kids play different sports for fun.

We quit a team where the coach was too driven. I watched him chew out his son for "throwing like a girl".

The girls on his team weren't very impressed with that comment judging by their faces.

There are some people for whom being compared to a female is just about the worst kind of insult out there. Female participants who are in the area and who overhear such things generally get the message that they're some kind of contaminating liability (even if they're among the best players on the team which happens sometimes in the kids' leagues). They recognize that they will never be accepted and that they are intensely disliked regardless of their contributions. The fact that nobody else in the area says anything is evidence that everyone else present shares the opinion.

Just Joe

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2019, 07:03:36 PM »
Hello GrimSqueaker. I've missed you...

kanga1622

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 09:04:26 AM »
We have our kids in several activities this summer for the first time. DH doesn't work during the summer and he enjoys staying busy. So between two kids we are paying for pool passes (both), swimming lessons (youngest), t-ball (youngest), and inventors camp (oldest). Less than $400 in required fees and then a bit extra for a mitt and new swim gear as they both outgrew last year's stuff. We fill in with summer reading program activities as they have great speakers, craft times, and Lego club.

We only enroll our kids in things they ask for repeatedly. My oldest wants private swim lessons (he's completely uncoordinated) but we haven't found an instructor yet. My youngest is super excited about t-ball. The oldest really wants to join the Robotics club but isn't ready for the long competition days that are required almost every weekend during the spring.

Robotics is the only activity that I could see leading to a possible scholarship/career. And that is only because my oldest has an engineering mind and his latest idea is that he wants to design prosthetics (robot limbs :) ) as a career.

mm1970

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 11:09:45 AM »
We have our kids in several activities this summer for the first time. DH doesn't work during the summer and he enjoys staying busy. So between two kids we are paying for pool passes (both), swimming lessons (youngest), t-ball (youngest), and inventors camp (oldest). Less than $400 in required fees and then a bit extra for a mitt and new swim gear as they both outgrew last year's stuff. We fill in with summer reading program activities as they have great speakers, craft times, and Lego club.

We only enroll our kids in things they ask for repeatedly. My oldest wants private swim lessons (he's completely uncoordinated) but we haven't found an instructor yet. My youngest is super excited about t-ball. The oldest really wants to join the Robotics club but isn't ready for the long competition days that are required almost every weekend during the spring.

Robotics is the only activity that I could see leading to a possible scholarship/career. And that is only because my oldest has an engineering mind and his latest idea is that he wants to design prosthetics (robot limbs :) ) as a career.
I have a friend with a prosthetic leg, and that's how she met her husband (he made her a new one!)

joleran

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2019, 11:34:58 AM »
There are some people for whom being compared to a female is just about the worst kind of insult out there. Female participants who are in the area and who overhear such things generally get the message that they're some kind of contaminating liability (even if they're among the best players on the team which happens sometimes in the kids' leagues). They recognize that they will never be accepted and that they are intensely disliked regardless of their contributions. The fact that nobody else in the area says anything is evidence that everyone else present shares the opinion.

Definitely one of those weird things.  Once they cross puberty, the difference in many kinds of physical ability becomes stark, but before that it's just purely denigrating.  Regardless, not one of those things that should be brought up as an insult!

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2019, 03:47:23 PM »
I told one of the hiring managers I didn't care one bit if they were all stars on their football team in college or high school but had no work history. I valued work ethic far more, as that is an actual real-world skill that provides experience and learning. Playing sports is insanely static and regimented when you think about it and proves nothing.

I can understand valuing direct relevant experience, but I wouldn't dismiss those who played college sports instead of having a part time job as having no work ethic.  One doesn't become an elite athlete without working extremely hard and learning how to manage their athletics with their grades.  A kid without a work ethic would either be failing or not that great at their sport - raw talent can only take you so far if you don't have the drive to develop it properly.

I have a 13-year-old who plays club volleyball.  I am not a sports person (and everyone who knows me is boggled that I produced one).  She begged to play, so we made a deal that I'd cough up the money as long as a) she is having fun and b) her grades stay high, and c) she is improving her skills.  I pay thousands of dollars a year for club fees, summer camps, and extra practices.  She'll never make money off it, and I'm not holding my breath that she'll get a college scholarship, either.  (She might be good enough one day...if so, great, if not, then her college fund is waiting for her.) 

I have been completely impressed by this kid and her work ethic.  She often turns down fun activities with her friends so she can do her homework or practice.  She seeks out extra opportunities to practice with friends and teammates.  The way to get better is repetition, and that means practice practice practice - and she reallly wants to improve.

This kid of mine actually played 3 sports last year plus was in band.  Her dad and I revolted, so this coming school year we are making her choose 2 things.


LiveLean

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2019, 02:51:51 PM »
We have a 16-year-old who is a competitive swimmer in a club with 150 or so swimmers. In each of the last 10 years, our club has had a graduating senior go to an Ivy League school and/or Duke or Stanford. (Yep, one of those 10 schools, at least one a year.) This does not mean our son will be going to one of those 10 schools. But what it does mean is that he has learned a work ethic and time management skills that come from swimming 9 times a week, 52 weeks a year, getting up for 4:45 AM swim practices on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 7 AM practice on Saturdays.

To date we have spent $25,000 over 10 years on his swimming, which might sound like an awful lot until you divide it by the number of hours he has been coached -- again, more than 350 practices a year -- the number of meets he's participated in (more than 125), equipment (swimming is a relatively cheap sport on that front, though competition suits are expensive), and travel (thankfully our team hosts a lot of meets and doesn't travel out of state.)

Now before someone goes all Dave Ramsey on me about how I could have invested that $25,0000, know that his college is well funded. He also is a college swim prospect. I look at that $25,000 as some of the best money I've ever spent whether he swims in college or not.

But I sure as hell would never have gone into debt for it.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2019, 12:19:12 PM »
Show of hands: did anybody else think this thread was going be for kids activities that were about debt?

Nick_Miller

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2019, 01:27:42 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Example 1: Let's say the Miller family owes $5K on a loan at 5 percent. But instead of making extra payments, they spend their discretionary money on luge and badminton lessons for my younglings.

Example 2: Let's say the Miller family is debt free! Then they go out and take out a $5K loan at 5 percent to pay for their younglings' luge and badminton lessons.


How are these examples different? Is it somehow worse to finance sports lessons than it is to move money over from (existing) debt repayment to pay for the sports lessons in cash?

Malcat

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2019, 01:44:40 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2019, 01:51:43 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.


cloudsail

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2019, 01:55:59 PM »
Show of hands: did anybody else think this thread was going be for kids activities that were about debt?

*Raises hand

Malcat

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2019, 02:05:53 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.

Whoa, who said anything about throwing stones??

This is how I conceptualize my own spending, as long as I have debt, I look at total cost including the interest paid by not putting it towards debt, and then I make a decision as to whether or not it's worth it.

It's math, not judgement.

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2019, 02:47:52 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.

Whoa, who said anything about throwing stones??

This is how I conceptualize my own spending, as long as I have debt, I look at total cost including the interest paid by not putting it towards debt, and then I make a decision as to whether or not it's worth it.

It's math, not judgement.

Oh I wasn't referring to anything you said! I just meant the tone of this thread...and the category it's placed in.

My point was that every one of us on the forums who has a mortgage..or ANY debt...is equally guilty if/when don't prioritize debt repayment over any/all discretionary spending. Even the "don't pay off your mortgage" folks assume that every cent that would have went to mortgage payments goes to wisely chosen equities or rentals, as opposed to fun/consumer spending.

Malcat

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2019, 05:48:20 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.

Whoa, who said anything about throwing stones??

This is how I conceptualize my own spending, as long as I have debt, I look at total cost including the interest paid by not putting it towards debt, and then I make a decision as to whether or not it's worth it.

It's math, not judgement.

Oh I wasn't referring to anything you said! I just meant the tone of this thread...and the category it's placed in.

My point was that every one of us on the forums who has a mortgage..or ANY debt...is equally guilty if/when don't prioritize debt repayment over any/all discretionary spending. Even the "don't pay off your mortgage" folks assume that every cent that would have went to mortgage payments goes to wisely chosen equities or rentals, as opposed to fun/consumer spending.

Lol!

I was so confused!

Gremlin

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2019, 07:12:03 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Example 1: Let's say the Miller family owes $5K on a loan at 5 percent. But instead of making extra payments, they spend their discretionary money on luge and badminton lessons for my younglings.

Example 2: Let's say the Miller family is debt free! Then they go out and take out a $5K loan at 5 percent to pay for their younglings' luge and badminton lessons.


How are these examples different? Is it somehow worse to finance sports lessons than it is to move money over from (existing) debt repayment to pay for the sports lessons in cash?

Whilst I'm sure you meant "luge lessons" and "badminton lessons", the idea of lugeminton fascinates me!

Raenia

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2019, 06:28:22 AM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.

Whoa, who said anything about throwing stones??

This is how I conceptualize my own spending, as long as I have debt, I look at total cost including the interest paid by not putting it towards debt, and then I make a decision as to whether or not it's worth it.

It's math, not judgement.

Oh I wasn't referring to anything you said! I just meant the tone of this thread...and the category it's placed in.

My point was that every one of us on the forums who has a mortgage..or ANY debt...is equally guilty if/when don't prioritize debt repayment over any/all discretionary spending. Even the "don't pay off your mortgage" folks assume that every cent that would have went to mortgage payments goes to wisely chosen equities or rentals, as opposed to fun/consumer spending.

Well, I do think there's a difference between 4% mortgage debt and 20% credit card debt.  But sure, it's a reasonable way to look at it.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2019, 06:32:32 AM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Example 1: Let's say the Miller family owes $5K on a loan at 5 percent. But instead of making extra payments, they spend their discretionary money on luge and badminton lessons for my younglings.

Example 2: Let's say the Miller family is debt free! Then they go out and take out a $5K loan at 5 percent to pay for their younglings' luge and badminton lessons.


How are these examples different? Is it somehow worse to finance sports lessons than it is to move money over from (existing) debt repayment to pay for the sports lessons in cash?

Whilst I'm sure you meant "luge lessons" and "badminton lessons", the idea of lugeminton fascinates me!

I meant exactly what I said; lessons that combine the essential skills needed for both luge and badminton! What kind of weirdo would practice those sports separately?

(I wish we had a "like" feature)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 09:44:50 AM by Nick_Miller »

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2019, 09:00:10 AM »
 Relative's bosses [ small family owned firm- 7 employees including owners] bring their child to the big city several times a week for Rock-Climbing. Kid is 11 yrs old. I am told between membership and gear - apparently he goes thru lots of shoes - it is >$1000  monthly.  They take the ferry to the big city, because they have burned their bridges with the local rock climbing gym with personal animosity toward the local owners [ Not including transportation -20 minutes there and back -vs- 100 minutes there and back- plus ferry cost ].

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Re: Debt for Kids Activities
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2019, 06:21:46 PM »
Legit question: Isn't it really the equivalent of "going into debt" to do something whenever we spend money on an activity instead of paying off our existing debt?

Yep.

Spending when you have debt is the exact same as paying off debt and then immediately racking it back up again.

So yeah, everyone (with a mortgage) who's out there shelling out $ for their kids' activities (or new cars, or coffees, or whatever) is essentially "going into debt" by prioritizing the activities/cars/coffees over paying off their debt. And that's a LOT of people. I try not to throw stones for this reason, even if I think people are overspending, because we still have mortgage debt and student loan debt, yet we consistently do fun things instead of directing every penny to loan repayment.

 At some level, this is logical and correct.....

Ugh.
and you just made me mentally conflate my mortgage with car loan payments.   (I hate hate hate car loans... yet don't mind mortgage payments..   I now need to re-read "don't pay off your mortgage" to stay the course...)