Author Topic: Debt excuses  (Read 13341 times)

Strawberrykiwi75

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Debt excuses
« on: April 05, 2014, 06:08:46 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that people who are perpetually in debt make excuses for it to justify it? I'm not sure if they are trying to justify it to themselves or others. A common one seems to be 'we did it for the kids'.

Example: couple buys an expensive car on finance because they're having a baby. The old car, although old, would fit the baby stroller, the special seat, all the accoutrements necessary for transporting a child. I don't think the baby cares if the car is old or not!!

Has anyone else noticed this? What excuses have you come across?

Argyle

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 07:37:13 PM »
The one I hear a lot is "Don't you think I'm worth it?"  I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

zataks

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2014, 09:29:47 PM »
I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

Strawberrykiwi75

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 01:15:13 AM »
I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

+1

greenmimama

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 06:22:28 AM »
Although we did not upgrade our car when we had a baby, I get that people want to. Having a vehicle that feels like it won't leave you stranded seems a lot more important when its more than just you all of a sudden.

For instance, we drive an 11yo mini van in great shape, but if I was left stranded somewhere I have to find someone to come get me with a vehicle big enough to transport me and my 3 kids and their caraeats, it sounds hard, I hope I don't have to do that.

I think our society just buys what we want when we want it because credit is so easily available and even if you default on the loan, their really isn't much of a punishment

CarDude

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 10:18:47 AM »
I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

True, but you've got to add the *deliberate* overprovision of credit to that. We don't put jars of cookies next to jars of carrots and act surprised when preschoolers choose the former over the latter; it's no different when our government decides it's okay for corporations and banks  to offer 7 year car loans, 30 year, zero down mortgages, and $50,000 student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy to 18-year olds.

horsepoor

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2014, 08:04:34 AM »
Although we did not upgrade our car when we had a baby, I get that people want to. Having a vehicle that feels like it won't leave you stranded seems a lot more important when its more than just you all of a sudden.

For instance, we drive an 11yo mini van in great shape, but if I was left stranded somewhere I have to find someone to come get me with a vehicle big enough to transport me and my 3 kids and their caraeats, it sounds hard, I hope I don't have to do that.

I think our society just buys what we want when we want it because credit is so easily available and even if you default on the loan, their really isn't much of a punishment

Agree with this.  I don't have kids, but am very sensitive of the risk of having my truck break down while towing my horse(s).  Current truck is 14 years old and runs like a top though, so I hope to keep it until it's 20 years old.  People really justify going WAY OVER THE TOP when buying vehicles - there is a big difference between a very reliable used minivan for $10K and some $40K+ spanking new SUV, and both can get the kid safely to soccer practice.  New-ish cars are actually really reliable these days, and then there's all sorts of road side assistance available, plus cell phones, so getting stranded isn't really the risk it used to be.

LucyBIT

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2014, 01:38:45 PM »
I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

True, but you've got to add the *deliberate* overprovision of credit to that. We don't put jars of cookies next to jars of carrots and act surprised when preschoolers choose the former over the latter; it's no different when our government decides it's okay for corporations and banks  to offer 7 year car loans, 30 year, zero down mortgages, and $50,000 student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy to 18-year olds.

+1

I hear a lot of "Free money! They're practically giving it away! You'd be a fool not to take advantage of it!"

I was hanging out with a friend the other day and he told me all about the $4,000 student loan he took out at the fantastic interest rate of 6.5%, and how he should have borrowed $30,000.

The worst "free money!" offender I know is my fiance's coworker/friend, and he spent a long time this weekend telling us all about how we should move to their neighborhood because the houses are a steal at $300,000 and their monthly payment is only $1,500 with a 10% downpayment and they're so close to the light rail (he does take the light rail into downtown, but he drives 4 miles to the station, which is 1 mile less than my total distance). Never mind that we make substantially less than he does, their neighborhood would increase my distance from work by about x2.5, oh and we despise his neighborhood and the neighborhood we actually want to live in would cut Fiance's commute in half and we could actually stay in our price range.

Every time I hear those words, "Free money!" I want to deliver facepunches. Are they giving you a $300,000 house? Are they giving you $300,000 to buy a house that you never have to pay back? Is it at least 0% interest? Oh, none of the above? *facepunch*

EDIT: I forgot the best part! Our monthly rent is LESS than $1,500 (which I'm not sure he knows), yet he also whipped out the old "you're just throwing your money away by renting!" chestnut.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 01:40:34 PM by LucyBIT »

MicroRN

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 02:45:42 PM »
Although we did not upgrade our car when we had a baby, I get that people want to. Having a vehicle that feels like it won't leave you stranded seems a lot more important when its more than just you all of a sudden.

For instance, we drive an 11yo mini van in great shape, but if I was left stranded somewhere I have to find someone to come get me with a vehicle big enough to transport me and my 3 kids and their caraeats, it sounds hard, I hope I don't have to do that.

I think our society just buys what we want when we want it because credit is so easily available and even if you default on the loan, their really isn't much of a punishment

I get it too, to a certain extent.  Before I had kids, I drove a kind of scary little Neon 2 door.  It actually never stranded me anywhere, but it's safety ratings were poor, gas gauge/speedometer/odometer were nonfunctional, and getting kids into rear facing carseats would have been difficult.  With the size and tilt of the back seat, it would also have been hard to safely install the seats.  If I hadn't already gotten rid of that car, I would have when we had kids.

However, my "upgrade" is an '04 paid-in-cash Civic Hybrid.  DH has a Prius.  Both readily fit 2 kids in carseats, a double stroller, and everything else we need, even for trips.  Meanwhile I have friends who traded in their sedans and financed a  minivan AND an SUV (used but only 1-2 years old) when they had a second child.

MrsPete

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 04:01:08 PM »
The one I hear a lot is "Don't you think I'm worth it?"  I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.
I don't hear that excuse so often, but I hear its first cousin constantly:  I work hard, and I deserve ______ (insert reward here).  Or, "We've had a rough time this year what with ______ (insert setback here), and we deserved a treat." 

I think our society just buys what we want when we want it because credit is so easily available and even if you default on the loan, their really isn't much of a punishment
I agree, and add to it this excuse: "I didn't know what I was doing when I ran up this debt.  No one taught me to manage money.  I didn't understand the terms of the loan.  I didn't understand compound interest.  I didn't know spending more than you earn could yield a bad result." 

MrsPete

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 04:04:09 PM »
The worst "free money!" offender I know is my fiance's coworker/friend, and he spent a long time this weekend telling us all about how we should move to their neighborhood because the houses are a steal at $300,000 and their monthly payment is only $1,500 with a 10% downpayment and they're so close to the light rail (he does take the light rail into downtown, but he drives 4 miles to the station, which is 1 mile less than my total distance). Never mind that we make substantially less than he does, their neighborhood would increase my distance from work by about x2.5, oh and we despise his neighborhood and the neighborhood we actually want to live in would cut Fiance's commute in half and we could actually stay in our price range.
Here's the first cousin to that lie: "I just traded in my car for a new one, and my payment is the same!  I couldn't afford not to drive a new car!"  No, it isn't the same.  Even if you're making payments, you had two years of payments made on that car, and now you're back to square one with this new car! 

sunnyca

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 06:21:27 PM »
The worst debt excuse I've heard:

"I'm terrible with money.  I've never balanced a checkbook, I don't look at my accounts."

To my offer of help:

"No thanks, it's embarrassing and I don't want to think about it anymore."

Like the problem is going to go away...
 

odput

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 06:42:29 AM »
Here's the first cousin to that lie: "I just traded in my car for a new one, and my payment is the same!  I couldn't afford not to drive a new car!"  No, it isn't the same.  Even if you're making payments, you had two years of payments made on that car, and now you're back to square one with this new car!

I hate this one...I cannot figure out why people don't want to be car payment free.

Although when my car was reaching the end of its repayment (facepunch worthy I know, but it was pre-MMM of course) I did find it funny getting the sales calls with the salesman saying things like "you could have a new car for the same payment...or less!"  It left them speechless when I said I didn't want a new car.

lizzzi

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 07:04:15 AM »
The one I've heard a lot is at traditional funerals with the viewings, the casket, the flowers, the motorcade with police escort, etc. The bereaved relative will say, "She/he deserves the best." Well…maybe the funeral is paid in full and maybe it isn't, but the thousands of dollars it cost could have gone for better quality of life for the deceased, or else for better quality of life for their survivors or heirs after they are gone. The second one that happens a lot is when I comment to somebody that I don't believe in car payments or house payments, and I get a weird look. I know so many people who just assume you have to be making payments on cars--they don't even consider having a paid-for car. Houses are a little harder, of course, but I don't for a minute spend what the bank says I'm "qualified" for, and my last three houses have been cash deals. (Fortunately had a Mustachian husband.) The third really incredible one is the person who maxes their credit cards, thinking that whatever the credit limit is is what they have available for spending. Sheesh…there are no words.

mrsggrowsveg

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 07:21:07 AM »
This is a very common one in my generation:  "You only live once."  I do agree with the idea of living life to the fullest, but don't believe a bigger house, fancy dinners or a newer car will get me there.

GuitarStv

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 07:35:02 AM »
This is a very common one in my generation:  "You only live once."  I do agree with the idea of living life to the fullest, but don't believe a bigger house, fancy dinners or a newer car will get me there.

You aren't living life to the fullest if you need to spend money to enjoy yourself.

greenmimama

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 07:48:20 AM »
I hear the one "we are always going to have car payments" I just want to say "well yeah if that's the way you think, sure you will"

I haven't had a car payment since 1997 and I made hardly anything back then and we really didn't start making good money until 2004ish

It really has nothing to do with how much you make, unless you make nothing, but it is the same with any MMM stuff, you just don't drive new shiny cars ;)

Travis

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2014, 08:26:01 AM »
The one I hear a lot is "Don't you think I'm worth it?"  I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

A friend of a friend was getting engaged a couple years ago and bought his girlfriend a sizeable rock.  I didn't hear the exact amount, but apparently it wasn't big enough and she made him return it for a bigger one.  He borrowed against his house to finance it.  After an extravagant wedding they were divorced within a year.  The guy wasn't the "finance happiness" kind of person, but he tried to marry someone who was.

Quote
The one I've heard a lot is at traditional funerals with the viewings, the casket, the flowers, the motorcade with police escort, etc...

I performed a military funeral detail for a WWII vet about ten years ago and ran into this situation.  I was hanging out with the florist while he was unloading several of those giant wreaths on easels and he was laughing about how much people spend on his flowers that only get used for a couple hours then get thrown away.

skunkfunk

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2014, 08:33:08 AM »
Although we did not upgrade our car when we had a baby, I get that people want to. Having a vehicle that feels like it won't leave you stranded seems a lot more important when its more than just you all of a sudden.

For instance, we drive an 11yo mini van in great shape, but if I was left stranded somewhere I have to find someone to come get me with a vehicle big enough to transport me and my 3 kids and their caraeats, it sounds hard, I hope I don't have to do that.

I think our society just buys what we want when we want it because credit is so easily available and even if you default on the loan, their really isn't much of a punishment

I get it too, to a certain extent.  Before I had kids, I drove a kind of scary little Neon 2 door.  It actually never stranded me anywhere, but it's safety ratings were poor, gas gauge/speedometer/odometer were nonfunctional, and getting kids into rear facing carseats would have been difficult.  With the size and tilt of the back seat, it would also have been hard to safely install the seats.  If I hadn't already gotten rid of that car, I would have when we had kids.

However, my "upgrade" is an '04 paid-in-cash Civic Hybrid.  DH has a Prius.  Both readily fit 2 kids in carseats, a double stroller, and everything else we need, even for trips.  Meanwhile I have friends who traded in their sedans and financed a  minivan AND an SUV (used but only 1-2 years old) when they had a second child.

I've personally never regularly driven a car newer than 20 years old. Until recently, in fact, my newest car I had owned was a 270,000 mile beater from 1971. The only times I've been stranded by something that I couldn't quickly fix on the side of the road were when I ran it out of gas. Even the time I had to rebuild the transmission it got me the 75 miles home with the 1st gear clutches totally destroyed (though it did take a week of work in the garage to overhaul that thing.)

ANY car can strand you. The only difference with a new one is that the dealership is on the hook for it.

KatieSSS

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2014, 09:08:06 AM »
The one I've heard a lot is at traditional funerals with the viewings, the casket, the flowers, the motorcade with police escort, etc. The bereaved relative will say, "She/he deserves the best." Well…maybe the funeral is paid in full and maybe it isn't, but the thousands of dollars it cost could have gone for better quality of life for the deceased, or else for better quality of life for their survivors or heirs after they are gone.

THIS x infinity. I keep telling my parents that if I die before them to just stick me in the ground and play one of my favorite songs while they stand by and toss flowers over my grave. I'm dead, no need to spend money on me after I'm gone! Every time I say this my mother hyperventilates.

ETA: And by stick me in the ground I mean just actually put me wherever. Although I think that is illegal. Too bad, because nature could easily take care of my body without the casket and dangerous chemicals.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 09:10:48 AM by KatieSSS »

elaine amj

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2014, 10:24:17 AM »
"Once in a lifetime" opportunity.

Whatever - a million "once in a lifetime" opportunities exist. Just a major excuse to spend more money than you planned - especially for children. They have to do this or that or the other because it's a "once in a lifetime" opportunity. If you're smart and pay attention, opportunity knocks a whole lot of times. Sometimes asking for money, sometimes offering things for free. But justifying spending thousands upon thousands simply because it's "once in a lifetime" is silly to me.

 I evaluate things based on "is it worth it? is it of sufficient value" and keep the emotional "once in a lifetime" stuff out of the equation as far as possible.

jprince7827

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2014, 10:26:29 AM »
Me: "That ring is huge. Why did you get one so big or her?" (Had to have been a 15k ring.)

Him: "I just wanted to get her one that could last a lifetime. No need to get a small one now and have to upgrade it later."

Him being my 24 Y/O friend in Graduate School working FT as an Intern getting paid less than 40k a year.

pipercat

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2014, 10:39:51 AM »
One that has become a pet peeve of mine is when people use an item's age to suggest that it naturally needs to be replaced, as if it has an expiration date.  Some examples:

"Well, you know, this washer is almost 10 years old.  We'd better go look at new ones because it's only a matter of time.  Besides, I heard it make some weird noise yesterday."

"Gosh, I've had this car for almost 10 years now, and it has over a hundred thousand miles on it!  I really think it's time to replace it or we may end up stranded somewhere."

"You know, we've had the same refrigerator since the kids were little.  I'm surprised it lasted so long.  I saw fridges on sale at Lowe's just the other day".

I'm not saying that things don't eventually need to be replaced, but some things can be very effectively repaired.  I hear it all the time.  People don't want to be bothered to fix something, they simply replace it, even if there is nothing wrong with it!

MgoSam

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2014, 10:43:15 AM »

A friend of a friend was getting engaged a couple years ago and bought his girlfriend a sizeable rock.  I didn't hear the exact amount, but apparently it wasn't big enough and she made him return it for a bigger one.  He borrowed against his house to finance it.  After an extravagant wedding they were divorced within a year.  The guy wasn't the "finance happiness" kind of person, but he tried to marry someone who was.

If I do find someone that I want to marry and she were to tell me to get her a bigger rock, I might actually be thankful. Instead I would return the ring, a response like that would make me incredibly wary.

pipercat

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2014, 10:43:32 AM »
Him: "I just wanted to get her one that could last a lifetime. No need to get a small one now and have to upgrade it later."


I've heard that a few times recently.  Who on earth is telling people that they need to "upgrade" their diamonds?? That is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a while!

If my husband suggested that we should upgrade my diamond, I would deliver the facepunch to him myself!  I can think of lots of other things to use that money for!

MgoSam

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2014, 10:46:19 AM »
One that has become a pet peeve of mine is when people use an item's age to suggest that it naturally needs to be replaced, as if it has an expiration date.  Some examples:

"Well, you know, this washer is almost 10 years old.  We'd better go look at new ones because it's only a matter of time.  Besides, I heard it make some weird noise yesterday."

"Gosh, I've had this car for almost 10 years now, and it has over a hundred thousand miles on it!  I really think it's time to replace it or we may end up stranded somewhere."

"You know, we've had the same refrigerator since the kids were little.  I'm surprised it lasted so long.  I saw fridges on sale at Lowe's just the other day".

I'm not saying that things don't eventually need to be replaced, but some things can be very effectively repaired.  I hear it all the time.  People don't want to be bothered to fix something, they simply replace it, even if there is nothing wrong with it!

I hear you! For many things I can understand a desire for new things, but at least for me I would say that it is because I want a new thing, not because the appliance or car or thing is a little old.

SisterX

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2014, 10:53:27 AM »
Him: "I just wanted to get her one that could last a lifetime. No need to get a small one now and have to upgrade it later."


I've heard that a few times recently.  Who on earth is telling people that they need to "upgrade" their diamonds?? That is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a while!

If my husband suggested that we should upgrade my diamond, I would deliver the facepunch to him myself!  I can think of lots of other things to use that money for!

+1.

I did used to know a girl (from high school through early 20s) who always said that if a guy proposed and the ring wasn't nestled in a Tiffany's box and at least 2 karats, she'd turn him down immediately.  She did get married a few years later, but I wasn't friends with her at the time so I don't know if he lived up to that standard or she realized she was prizing materialism over a relationship.

Theadyn

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2014, 11:17:06 AM »
In 2001, my late hubby was warned he better not spend much on rings, really just wanted a simple band. I never got the ring thing most girls seemed to be afflicted with.  My own older sis actually told her soon-to-be fiance he better spend at least 8k on her ring if he wants her to say yes.  Smh.

MgoSam

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 11:45:30 AM »
Me: "That ring is huge. Why did you get one so big or her?" (Had to have been a 15k ring.)

Him: "I just wanted to get her one that could last a lifetime. No need to get a small one now and have to upgrade it later."

Him being my 24 Y/O friend in Graduate School working FT as an Intern getting paid less than 40k a year.

Another thing I don't get about "upgrading" a wedding ring is that it isn't like a house where it is a huge burden to both buy and sell a house, both in terms of time and money. Maybe I am mistaken but when you are looking to buy a ring you go to a jeweler and find something you like and buy it (and size it, ect), with the only exception being if you are doing something custom.

If this is the case (and let me know if I am mistaken), wouldn't it make more sense for someone to buy what they can afford right now and should the financial picture improve in the future, spend more for a nicer ring?

Argyle

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2014, 03:09:42 PM »
Buying a more expensive ring in the future — that is upgrading.  You don't add on to the current ring, you just buy a more expensive one.  But seeing as you'll never sell the original ring for what you paid for it, plus the woman might want to keep it, you've now spent a huge ton of money on rings.  I don't really get why anyone wants an expensive ring in the first place, but an even more expensive one.  Like that's the most pleasure you could possibly get for $15,000 or $20,000?  Boy can I think of a lot of ways I could enjoy spending that money more, if I were going to spend it.

BlueHouse

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2014, 08:25:31 PM »
Sometimes I find myself justifying a splurge on something because I've scrimped and saved on something else.  The point of scrimping and saving was to actually SAVE more money, but then I go and just spend it on something else.  I guess that's a type of "I deserve it"

SwordGuy

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2014, 09:58:55 PM »
A friend of a friend was getting engaged a couple years ago and bought his girlfriend a sizeable rock.  I didn't hear the exact amount, but apparently it wasn't big enough and she made him return it for a bigger one.

I would have sold it for what I could get for it and ditched the bitch.

I would never have continued with marriage plans with anyone I had misjudged so badly.   I would, however, thanked my lucky stars I got off so easily from such a dreadful mistake.



iris lily

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2014, 01:37:29 PM »
Him: "I just wanted to get her one that could last a lifetime. No need to get a small one now and have to upgrade it later."


I've heard that a few times recently.  Who on earth is telling people that they need to "upgrade" their diamonds?? That is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a while!

If my husband suggested that we should upgrade my diamond, I would deliver the facepunch to him myself!  I can think of lots of other things to use that money for!
Upgrading engagement rings is the new trend. I think mall stores are behind it because they will often take the original ring in for trade at full price (I think--am not sure).
What is beyond my keen are the women who have upgraded before they even get married.
edited to add: I just read a few posts on WeddingBee about upgrading. One poster there said that Zales will give full trade-in costs for the first ring if the upgrade rings is 2X the cost of ring #1.
Sounds like a good scam to me for Zales and a lose/lose for the buyers of overpriced Zales products.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 01:42:57 PM by iris lily »

iamlindoro

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2014, 02:20:45 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that people who are perpetually in debt make excuses for it to justify it? I'm not sure if they are trying to justify it to themselves or others. A common one seems to be 'we did it for the kids'.

Example: couple buys an expensive car on finance because they're having a baby. The old car, although old, would fit the baby stroller, the special seat, all the accoutrements necessary for transporting a child. I don't think the baby cares if the car is old or not!!

Has anyone else noticed this? What excuses have you come across?

My big problem with debt (in the US) is the societal attitude that huge amounts of debt are "normal" and that things like mortgage debt are "good debt" without consideration of interest rates.  eg, there are plenty of people who just accept that always having a car payment, or student loans, or a massive mortgage are simply facts of life, and not the result of choices.

MrsPete

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2014, 04:16:46 PM »
This is a very common one in my generation:  "You only live once."  I do agree with the idea of living life to the fullest, but don't believe a bigger house, fancy dinners or a newer car will get me there.
Oh, another closely related one:  "If you're going to pay for it, you might as well have what you want."  (Usually used to justify upgrading a vehicle or buying a larger house than one really needs.)

Hunny156

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2014, 03:21:12 PM »
Oh, so many examples come to mind!  Here's two:

Pre-mustachian, we were barely out of college & had school loans & credit card debt.  Hubby picked the setting, and I handed him a faux diamond to put in it.  Shortly after the proposal, he informed me that he intended to eventually upgrade to the real thing, a $6K stone!  I told him no way, I'd never feel comfortable wearing $6K on my hand.  My faux rock still shines as brightly now, and the sentimental value is far more than $6K!

A neighbor just finished paying off his vehicle, and wanted to replace the car payment w/a hot tub payment.  As both he & I have medical issues that benefit from a therapeutic hot tub, I wanted to help him out, so I showed him our refurbished tub, which could be had for 1/5th the cost of new.  He was very interested, but in the end, he went to a showroom and bought a top of the line hot tub.  His rationale was that everything is under warranty for the first 5 years, so he wouldn't have to worry about repairs during that time.  It's been 3 years, and the repair guy showed up last week.  Neighbor was then ranting about how the warranty only included parts, not labor, and the labor bill was very expensive.

Sigh...

Boon

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2014, 03:03:25 AM »
True, but you've got to add the *deliberate* overprovision of credit to that. We don't put jars of cookies next to jars of carrots and act surprised when preschoolers choose the former over the latter; it's no different when our government decides it's okay for corporations and banks  to offer 7 year car loans, 30 year, zero down mortgages, and $50,000 student loans undischargeable in bankruptcy to 18-year olds.

-1

Hi all, Longtime lurker, first time poster, but I was spurred to action here as I couldn't disagree more.

Adults have to be responsible for their decisions and their actions, preschoolers are not.

Complaining that banks try to sell you loans is like complaining that bars try to sell you beer, and supermarkets try to sell you unhealthy snacks and chocolate bars.

Of course they do, it's how they make money and all of those things in moderation can be the right thing to do and enjoyable. Equally if used incorrectly these things can ruin your life, but that is your lookout and your responsibility to make sure you are doing so, not that of the bank. (except to be sure you can pay the loan back

Asking for the government to save you is the height of complainypants behaviour.

Leisured

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2014, 05:34:19 AM »
I think confusing spending with self-worth is behind a lot of debt problems in our culture.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

+1

And +1 from me.

Leisured

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2014, 05:39:40 AM »
Here's the first cousin to that lie: "I just traded in my car for a new one, and my payment is the same!  I couldn't afford not to drive a new car!"  No, it isn't the same.  Even if you're making payments, you had two years of payments made on that car, and now you're back to square one with this new car!

I hate this one...I cannot figure out why people don't want to be car payment free.

Although when my car was reaching the end of its repayment (facepunch worthy I know, but it was pre-MMM of course) I did find it funny getting the sales calls with the salesman saying things like "you could have a new car for the same payment...or less!"  It left them speechless when I said I didn't want a new car.

Good one. Consumption is still consumption. As any economist will say, what matters is opportunity cost. If you pay off a car, then the money you save can be (gasp) invested. Investment is the opportunity, not a new car.

Argyle suggested that consumption is linked to a feeling of self worth, but so is investment. If you have invested more than your co workers, that puts you ahead.




warfreak2

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2014, 06:19:50 AM »
Complaining that banks try to sell you loans is like complaining that bars try to sell you beer, and supermarkets try to sell you unhealthy snacks and chocolate bars.
Welcome!

I don't think this is a good analogy. Supermarkets don't have Snack Advisors who claim to be helping you choose the snacks that are right for you - but banks have Mortgage Advisors, Loan Advisors, &c. who are often under pressure to sell you financial products, whether or not they are in your interests. That leads to untrue claims being made about those products, which is definitely something that regulators should take an interest in.

bc0833

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 11:33:08 PM »
As a former paycheck-to-paycheck living debtaholic, I can say that I think most people make excuses for themselves.  Blame the economy, blame your rent, blame  your parents.  As long as it's not your fault you don't have to face the real problem: you fucking spend too much goddamn money.

Argyle

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Re: Debt excuses
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2014, 01:40:40 AM »
It's clear that we're influenced by the behavior of those around us.  That's why we're all here -- to find a supportive community of good influencers.  That's why corporations spend millions on advertising.  When we go to a bank and they tell us they're going to "find what's right for us" and all, they're meaning to influence us, and often they're doing it.  The culture is full of interests competing for influence.  I personally think it's right for government to try to reign in the excesses of the damaging influencers.  It's nice to think that each of us can stand on our own two feet and think completely independently -- I know the studies show that people typically think other people are influenced by advertising, but we ourselves never are.  But the truth is that everybody is in the sights of the people trying to sway us to buy stuff we don't need and take out loans we can't afford and eat portions that will make us obese and all the rest of the marketing propaganda.  Laws against the excesses of it are dandy by me.  The unfettered marketplace doesn't have our interests at heart.