Dave Ramsey personality Chris Hogan and why paying for loaded mutual funds is awesome!

[zephyr911]

I don't know a lot about investing, is this sound advice or are you saying they are bad suggestions and show he's slipping?

Yes, it is sound advice.

[ender]

Another huge pet peeve of mine is the subtle but significant gap in logic when telling people to 100% of the time do Roth accounts.

He says, "if you take $X/year you end up with $1,000,000 - and then 30% to taxes! so $300k total! do you think you'll pay $300k in taxes on the money to put it in there?" and the answer he is looking for is, "no, I will pay more taxes if I do not do Roth! since I only pay a few thousand a year!"

... but this blatantly ignores that if you invest all your pretax savings you end up with the same (or in most cases, barring significant pension/rental income, more) money at the end.

It's fine advice for most people who will not bother saving the tax savings meaningfully (so then the Roth is better since they save more effectively) but jeesh the intellectual dishonesty of this bothers me.

[MDM]

Tuned in today.  Shit, hell, fire he actually suggested van hard to someone wanting to save with low tax consequences.

He suggests index funds for taxable accounts.

I don't know a lot about investing, is this sound advice or are you saying they are bad suggestions and show he's slipping?

Depends on what you mean by "this" (the original quote or the reply?).  A no-load, low-fee market-weighted index fund should be fine for taxable accounts.  Yes, one could do a little better tax-wise, but if we're worried about that level of detail we're way beyond beginner's advice.

If by "this" you mean "van hard", and by "van hard" one means http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/GHAAX/quote.html, then that's probably a bad suggestion: front end load of 5.75% and annual fee of 1.38%

[EricP]

Tuned in today.  Shit, hell, fire he actually suggested van hard to someone wanting to save with low tax consequences.

He suggests index funds for taxable accounts.

I don't know a lot about investing, is this sound advice or are you saying they are bad suggestions and show he's slipping?

Depends on what you mean by "this" (the original quote or the reply?).  A no-load, low-fee market-weighted index fund should be fine for taxable accounts.  Yes, one could do a little better tax-wise, but if we're worried about that level of detail we're way beyond beginner's advice.

If by "this" you mean "van hard", and by "van hard" one means http://www.morningstar.com/funds/XNAS/GHAAX/quote.html, then that's probably a bad suggestion: front end load of 5.75% and annual fee of 1.38%

Pretty sure "van hard" was a typo of Vanguard...

[fb132]

I litterally laughed so hard when I read van Hard.

[Kaikou]

The Ramsey "personalities" appear on the show occasionally with Dave, and their lack of financial knowledge is obvious and embarrassing.

I ignore Dave's investing advice, but I do enjoy hearing him talk about real estate. It's obviously his wheelhouse. When the time comes I will pay cash for rental property like he recommends.

So true. Hogan garbage. Rachel horrible. Brown will leave eventually. The only one I actually believe is Wright and I think it's because all the things she promotes for Dave is stuff she was already doing anyways and had actual knowledge about before working for Dave.

[Frankies Girl]

Besides,  Dave would never mislead anyone because as he repeatedly reminds everyone he is a Christian.

Hahaha

Yup. Someone saying "Well, I'm a Christian...." or otherwise using their religious designation in business contacts is usually my signal to be very suspicious of whatever is coming out of that person's mouth.

And I hadn't ever heard of Dave Ramsey until reading the forum here, and have zero interest in listening to him.

[Quaglar]

My SO applied for a job at his company, before we knew anything about him.  Last I knew of him, I had listened to his radio show about 10 years ago, nothing recently.  Some things about the interview process seemed really strange...

- There will be about 6 interviews
- The last interview, we will ask you to bring your spouse and make sure they are ok with you taking this job and with the money we will be paying you.
- At the last interview, we will ask that you and your wife share with us your budget and we will take an assessment and see if we have any suggestions that might help you two out, and make sure that our salary offer will not be something that will break you financially.
- Every Wednesday there are devotionals that everyone goes to.

I was at the point where I finally told my SO that I would not be taking part in this.  Not only will I not be handing over MY budget BEFORE you even get the job, or ever, I will not be interviewing with them.  Its hell enough to interview for your own job, much less someone else's.

They wanted links to all of his social media accounts, and all he had was Twitter, but it definitely didn't look as though he were southern Baptist like Dave. A friend of ours told us about a website called glassdoor, and we looked at the reviews on there of the company... that's all it took, we were out.  Strange how there were about 30 reviews that were extremely short 5 star reviews, and the rest were actually full reviews that showed, even if the reviewer liked working there, explained how it was... Very cultish, they say they don't have anyone work OT, but they make your OT "voluntary" and don't pay you.  They let you flex your hours, but basically if you're a couple minutes late, they change your schedule, then the next time they fire you.

Honestly, I read every single review, because it was like watching a train wreck.  Then I went on to read all the news articles about him bringing a sword, then a loaded pistol, to a company meeting, all angry about whatever gossip he had heard about that wasn't favorable of him.  Hacked into the facebook group where employees vented.  It was truly surreal.

All of this to say, if his advice is from the recent years, I would not be trusting it.  He has obviously had a mental break after becoming wealthy.

^That shit is super illegal. Asking about marital status and financial information, and then making hiring decisions based on that information is definitely lawsuit fodder. IANAL, but I do work in the selection and assessment space and you named a bunch of pretty clear cut cases of breach of employment law. If you are still chapped about it, I would consider reaching out to a lawyer.

[hops]

They wanted links to all of his social media accounts, and all he had was Twitter, but it definitely didn't look as though he were southern Baptist like Dave.

Dave's policing of social media accounts has made headlines:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/29/spies-cash-and-fear-inside-christian-money-guru-dave-ramsey-s-social-media-witch-hunt.html

You were wise to put your foot down.

[nereo]

^That shit is super illegal. Asking about marital status and financial information, and then making hiring decisions based on that information is definitely lawsuit fodder. IANAL, but I do work in the selection and assessment space and you named a bunch of pretty clear cut cases of breach of employment law. If you are still chapped about it, I would consider reaching out to a lawyer.

IANAL is my new favorite Internet forum jargon...

[MgoSam]

My SO applied for a job at his company, before we knew anything about him.  Last I knew of him, I had listened to his radio show about 10 years ago, nothing recently.  Some things about the interview process seemed really strange...

- There will be about 6 interviews
- The last interview, we will ask you to bring your spouse and make sure they are ok with you taking this job and with the money we will be paying you.
- At the last interview, we will ask that you and your wife share with us your budget and we will take an assessment and see if we have any suggestions that might help you two out, and make sure that our salary offer will not be something that will break you financially.
- Every Wednesday there are devotionals that everyone goes to.

I was at the point where I finally told my SO that I would not be taking part in this.  Not only will I not be handing over MY budget BEFORE you even get the job, or ever, I will not be interviewing with them.  Its hell enough to interview for your own job, much less someone else's.

They wanted links to all of his social media accounts, and all he had was Twitter, but it definitely didn't look as though he were southern Baptist like Dave. A friend of ours told us about a website called glassdoor, and we looked at the reviews on there of the company... that's all it took, we were out.  Strange how there were about 30 reviews that were extremely short 5 star reviews, and the rest were actually full reviews that showed, even if the reviewer liked working there, explained how it was... Very cultish, they say they don't have anyone work OT, but they make your OT "voluntary" and don't pay you.  They let you flex your hours, but basically if you're a couple minutes late, they change your schedule, then the next time they fire you.

Honestly, I read every single review, because it was like watching a train wreck.  Then I went on to read all the news articles about him bringing a sword, then a loaded pistol, to a company meeting, all angry about whatever gossip he had heard about that wasn't favorable of him.  Hacked into the facebook group where employees vented.  It was truly surreal.

All of this to say, if his advice is from the recent years, I would not be trusting it.  He has obviously had a mental break after becoming wealthy.

^That shit is super illegal. Asking about marital status and financial information, and then making hiring decisions based on that information is definitely lawsuit fodder. IANAL, but I do work in the selection and assessment space and you named a bunch of pretty clear cut cases of breach of employment law. If you are still chapped about it, I would consider reaching out to a lawyer.

Watch him get sued for this and then go into full Christian martyr mode like that clerk in Kentucky.

[bacchi]

Tennessee must breed evangelical despots. Carey V. Brown was of a similar nature. After a few states sued his payday loan companies, he had to put up a web page addressing the lawsuits in order to attract employees.