Author Topic: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers  (Read 10866 times)

halfling

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Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« on: June 21, 2023, 04:00:38 PM »
https://www.thestreet.com/money/dave-ramsey-explains-why-now-is-a-great-time-to-buy-a-house

Quote
"Well, buying a new home right now -- this is a great time to buy," Ramsey said. "Interest rates are up and the real estate market has slowed down. It's still increasing. There's still a shortage of housing. And so it's tough to find a really good house and a really good deal."

"But if you can find one, regardless of the interest rate, I want you to go ahead and buy now, if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place," he continued.

Ramsey explained why he doesn't believe high interest rates should stop potential new homeowners from buying.

"If later the interest rates come back down, you're not stuck," he said. "Just refinance and dump the old mortgage that you had at 6% or 7% or wherever it lands right now."

Big if, Dave. Have to say it's not feeling like a great time to buy given all the reasons you've laid out!


Quote
"You don't want your payment to be more than a fourth of your take home pay on a 15-year mortgage," he said.

Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

nereo

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2023, 04:53:30 PM »
Math has never been Dave’s strong suit

ixtap

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2023, 04:56:44 PM »
From Ramsey's perspective, you are going to pay it off anyway, and buying at a higher interest rate, but following his rules, will mean a smaller/ less expensive house with lower utilities and taxes and insurance. If you are following all of his rules, there are definitely advantages to buying now. Break one of them, and the cards come tumbling down.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2023, 10:17:50 PM »
I’m fairness to Dave Ramsey, while I disagree that it’s a good time to buy a house, I think his point was more that people should buy a place when financially ready and not try to time the market.  And only people in a really good financial position can follow his rule of no more than 25% of take home pay towards mortgage, taxes and insurance.  Problem really lies in that fewer and fewer people are able to meet those criteria, but I think he was still directing that advice to that crowd and not the “borrow the 5% downpayment and spend 60% of income on the mortgage alone” crowd

GilesMM

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2023, 05:55:40 AM »
Trying to time the market on real estate can be tricky. Californians who have waited decades for the Big Correction are still renting.

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2023, 06:57:47 AM »
I can't agree that it is a great time to buy a house.  I do agree with the posters above who caution against trying to time the market. 

My first real estate purchase was in 1985 and came with a 10% mortgage, which was the going rate at the time. It ended up being financially advantageous (due to dumb luck, not brilliant timing on my part).

Scandium

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2023, 09:32:19 AM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

newco

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2023, 11:51:37 AM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

Scandium

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2023, 03:22:38 PM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

I don't think I had a particularly exceptional starting salary. I'm not in IT, it's even in civil engineer related, hardly the best paid field. I just looked up starting salary for civil engineer now. Baltimore it's $75k. Chicago; $79k. Manchester, NH; $82k. Boise ID: $81k (!). Just some random places, seems pretty consistent.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/graduate-civil-engineer-salary-SRCH_IM104_KO0,23.htm
"graduate" vs not doesn't' make much difference either.

So yes it hasn't kept up, since I had that salary 12 years ago. But still pretty decent. Inflation adjusted I got $96k apparently.. :S But $13k of that thanks to last 2 years!

Anyone who get's $55k starting as an engineer needs to have a serious talk to their boss! Move on, or move somewhere else, geez. That's disgraceful.


joemandadman189

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2023, 04:34:00 PM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

I don't think I had a particularly exceptional starting salary. I'm not in IT, it's even in civil engineer related, hardly the best paid field. I just looked up starting salary for civil engineer now. Baltimore it's $75k. Chicago; $79k. Manchester, NH; $82k. Boise ID: $81k (!). Just some random places, seems pretty consistent.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/graduate-civil-engineer-salary-SRCH_IM104_KO0,23.htm
"graduate" vs not doesn't' make much difference either.

So yes it hasn't kept up, since I had that salary 12 years ago. But still pretty decent. Inflation adjusted I got $96k apparently.. :S But $13k of that thanks to last 2 years!

Anyone who get's $55k starting as an engineer needs to have a serious talk to their boss! Move on, or move somewhere else, geez. That's disgraceful.

i dont think we are paying new kids $75k a year here in Denver, but i could be wrong

Scandium

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2023, 04:56:55 PM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

I don't think I had a particularly exceptional starting salary. I'm not in IT, it's even in civil engineer related, hardly the best paid field. I just looked up starting salary for civil engineer now. Baltimore it's $75k. Chicago; $79k. Manchester, NH; $82k. Boise ID: $81k (!). Just some random places, seems pretty consistent.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/graduate-civil-engineer-salary-SRCH_IM104_KO0,23.htm
"graduate" vs not doesn't' make much difference either.

So yes it hasn't kept up, since I had that salary 12 years ago. But still pretty decent. Inflation adjusted I got $96k apparently.. :S But $13k of that thanks to last 2 years!

Anyone who get's $55k starting as an engineer needs to have a serious talk to their boss! Move on, or move somewhere else, geez. That's disgraceful.

i dont think we are paying new kids $75k a year here in Denver, but i could be wrong
Per glass door, civil engineer with 0-1 years in Denver has average of $72,874


I'm actually fire protection. Starting salary in Denver would be $81k! Not bad. Civil engineering is for suckers!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 05:02:26 PM by Scandium »

BC_Goldman

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2023, 06:31:01 PM »
My company made a big deal at a recent meeting that Glassdoor and other sites aren't "reliable" sources for salaries. Though, unsurprisingly, they are paying far less than what other more reliable sources like Robert Half or BLS are also saying.

Scandium

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2023, 08:06:03 AM »
My company made a big deal at a recent meeting that Glassdoor and other sites aren't "reliable" sources for salaries. Though, unsurprisingly, they are paying far less than what other more reliable sources like Robert Half or BLS are also saying.

Haha. That's a self-report from your company if I ever heard one!
"not reliable", because it's more than we're paying... :D

They will take advantage. I worked at a place I knew I was underpaid. Had to badger the boss to give me a single raise after 2+ years without one. Got $30k more when I left that shithole.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2023, 12:24:48 PM »
My company made a big deal at a recent meeting that Glassdoor and other sites aren't "reliable" sources for salaries. Though, unsurprisingly, they are paying far less than what other more reliable sources like Robert Half or BLS are also saying.

Haha. That's a self-report from your company if I ever heard one!
"not reliable", because it's more than we're paying... :D

They will take advantage. I worked at a place I knew I was underpaid. Had to badger the boss to give me a single raise after 2+ years without one. Got $30k more when I left that shithole.

I made sure all my colleagues had a copy of the largest single-profession salary survey.   I often included it in my self-written annual evaluation with the appropriate salary highlighted.
My boss (who started at the same profession) was less than amused, but took it well.
I have had an HR person claim that it wasn't relevant, for lame "reasons", even though I noted in my exit interview, that I had written proof (next job) of a 50% better salary in a lower cost of living area. 

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2023, 08:51:38 PM »
Sounds to me like his overall point can be summarized as "The best time to buy a house is when you are in a good position to buy a house"

Doesn't matter what the overall market is doing, if you see a deal and are in a position to capitalize on it, you should do so. You shouldn't sit on the sidelines waiting for the winds to change.

I bought my home (triplex) for $45,000 at the height of the pandemic panic. It was December of 2020; everything was shutting down and a lot of banks were unsure of whether they'd even be processing mortgage transactions soon. By all indications it was a horrible time to be buying a house, but I saw a great deal and jumped on it. For me, it was the best time to buy a house.

Loren Ver

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2023, 12:18:51 PM »
I'm with @Valley of Plenty (and a few others that posted above). 

DH and I were in a mediocre apartment after getting married then 2008/9 happened while we were looking for a house.  Yeah.  Well, we found a house after MONTHS of looking, as we were very price sensitive.  We were told no one would give us a mortgage etc.  And everyone was losing their jobs and we might too.  Our jobs were also pretty sucky easy to cut contract jobs with no benefits.  We were buying using money from stock investments that had taken a hit. 
DOOOOM!!! 
Well, we bought our house.  The interest rate was in the high 4% (pretty good considering many people were getting 5%+) but we refinanced when in dropped to 3.5%, where it is now. 
We still live in that little house. 

So having the advice of yes things are difficult but if you are in a good position to move on it, don't be afraid to do so, isn't all that shocking.  It doesn't mean lots of people wont be able to do so, or that jobs aren't hard, or things aren't expensive.  It just means that if you put yourself in a position to win this one, you should take it.  We give similar advice to people on this site all the time - just without the Dave Ramsey baggage. 

Loren

merula

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2023, 01:47:36 PM »
Man, I hate having to agree with Dave Ramsey.

I bought my first place 16 years ago at 5.9% interest. I heard over and over from my parents about how great that interest rate was, because their frame of reference was from the 80s and 90s and they had literally never had a mortgage interest rate as low as the one I got. (I think they refied their house after I bought.)

Sounds to me like his overall point can be summarized as "The best time to buy a house is when you are in a good position to buy a house"

Doesn't matter what the overall market is doing, if you see a deal and are in a position to capitalize on it, you should do so. You shouldn't sit on the sidelines waiting for the winds to change.

This, exactly.

Looking at long-term trends, interest rates are still pretty low. (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US) If you buy and rates go down, you can refi; if  they go up, you can hold onto the lower rate. But if you don't buy and they go up, you're pretty much SOL. (Not saying that everyone should always buy, but trying to time mortgage interest rates is just like any other market timing. If you're doing it right, the exact timing shouldn't matter enough to impact your decision.)

lifeisshort123

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2023, 07:43:47 PM »
I agree with Dave that if you can afford a house now is a great time to buy it.  I'm not sure he and I agree on what is affordable for the average owner, but then again, we have a home that costs a fraction of what conventional advice tells us we can "afford".... We would prefer to spend that money on investing for the future and travel expenses and other things, maybe a cabin or at least some land at some point as well.

I don't agree with him that a 15 year fixed is always the best way to go... I also hate how his one-size fits all advice doesn't necessarily mesh with other realities and doesn't change for people, but I think that's what makes it a good radio show - the fact he is incredibly clear.  After a while, you know exactly what he is going to say.


Turtle

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2023, 09:08:14 AM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

I don't think I had a particularly exceptional starting salary. I'm not in IT, it's even in civil engineer related, hardly the best paid field. I just looked up starting salary for civil engineer now. Baltimore it's $75k. Chicago; $79k. Manchester, NH; $82k. Boise ID: $81k (!). Just some random places, seems pretty consistent.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/graduate-civil-engineer-salary-SRCH_IM104_KO0,23.htm
"graduate" vs not doesn't' make much difference either.

So yes it hasn't kept up, since I had that salary 12 years ago. But still pretty decent. Inflation adjusted I got $96k apparently.. :S But $13k of that thanks to last 2 years!

Anyone who get's $55k starting as an engineer needs to have a serious talk to their boss! Move on, or move somewhere else, geez. That's disgraceful.

My youngest got $65k straight out of college, with added benefit of company provided housing, so actually worth considerably more than that.

Dee_the_third

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2023, 08:46:34 AM »
Alright, sounds like good advice. But wait a second - the median home sale price in the US is like $430k. If I were able to find a rare starter home for $350k, I'd still be staring down a $3K monthly payment on a 15-year mortgage with $70K down at 6.5%.  This man is telling me I need to clear over $200k pre-tax in order to afford a starter home, and he's saying it's a great time to buy. WTF.

But with two people buying that's only $100k salary each. For a professional couple that's close to a pretty normal salary in many places. I don't remember the percentage, but my wife and I made ~$150k between us when we bought 12+ years ago. My engineer starting salary was 70k then (and I was a mediocre student..), should be way higher for current graduates.

Not to mention that I would say a 30 year mortgage not 15. "Waiting for housing prices to fall" has not worked out for 98% of people..

Herein lies a major part of the problem, I don't believe the starting salaries for new engineers (at least where I live) are above $70,000.  I would peg it at $55,000-$60,000, while still a great salary, this does not keep up with the amount you made when you started. 

I had a conversation with my mother the other day, who has been a homemaker her entire life, and she was telling me that her and my dad had it hard when they bought their current home in 1997 for $230,000.  They had to survive on my dad's $70,000 a year salary, which if you compare to today, that's like $130,000 in buying power. 

I've been working for 7 years post college always in a professional IT setting and I make no where near $130,000.  Just this year I broke $70,000 and I would not feel comfortable buying a place for $230,000.   I don't even feel like I'm struggling but maybe I'm selling my self short in terms of salary.  Granted I don't work in software development...

I don't think I had a particularly exceptional starting salary. I'm not in IT, it's even in civil engineer related, hardly the best paid field. I just looked up starting salary for civil engineer now. Baltimore it's $75k. Chicago; $79k. Manchester, NH; $82k. Boise ID: $81k (!). Just some random places, seems pretty consistent.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/graduate-civil-engineer-salary-SRCH_IM104_KO0,23.htm
"graduate" vs not doesn't' make much difference either.

So yes it hasn't kept up, since I had that salary 12 years ago. But still pretty decent. Inflation adjusted I got $96k apparently.. :S But $13k of that thanks to last 2 years!

Anyone who get's $55k starting as an engineer needs to have a serious talk to their boss! Move on, or move somewhere else, geez. That's disgraceful.

My youngest got $65k straight out of college, with added benefit of company provided housing, so actually worth considerably more than that.

In 2013 I was offered 76 as a fresh new undergrad in ChemE with a cumulative 6 months of internship experience. Top students were offered 90k with a 10k signing bonus with oil and gas.

StarBright

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2023, 09:21:13 AM »
Our company offers mid to high 60s to engineers in the Baltimore area. It is known that we underpay, but we have cool projects and so it is the equivalent of working a glamour job (PR, publishing) for engineers.

The downside is that some of senior engineers are only pulling in the 80s and are definitely underpaid. I wish they would ask for more, but they are don't rock the boat types. Our employees definitely struggle to afford housing and most consider their spouses to be the breadwinners if they are married.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2023, 10:21:42 AM by StarBright »

lifeisshort123

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2023, 07:17:36 PM »
Housing prices have gotten so out of control where we live, that you would need to be a dual income household making well above these engineer salaries to be able to afford a home.

LiveLean

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2023, 10:40:01 AM »
We bought our home in 1999 when interest rates were 7.5 percent for a 30-year fixed. We refinanced it at 6.25, paid if off in 2008.

Now that interest rates are creeping back toward 7.5 percent, folks are acting like these are historical highs. They're not. Far from it.

These days, we're less concerned with housing prices than insurance (more than doubled in last three years), taxes (raised 20 percent this year alone), and electric (setting a new record high every month).

Zamboni

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2023, 03:27:51 PM »
^Rapid rises in insurance and tax rates on homes is not something all homeowners have factored in very well. It affects everyone who owns, and in some local areas those two homeowner expenses have seen pretty extreme increases.

Freedomin5

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2023, 04:41:19 PM »
We unwittingly followed Dave Ramsey’s advice this month. Closing this week on a house. 5.58% interest rate, 5-year fixed (in Canada, that’s the standard term). The mortgage payment is about 15% of our take-home income, so we plan to double up the payments and pay it off as quickly as possible.

Because of the high interest rates, this house had been sitting on the market for over two months, and the owner had dropped the price. We got it for $40k less than the original asking price, which was already $25k lower than the asking price of similar houses in the neighborhood. It’s in a good neighborhood though, near a major university, and houses don’t typically go on the market in that area. (This year, there were two in the specific micro-neighborhood we were looking at, and we bought one of them.)

Because the market has slowed down, we were able to put in a few conditions and take our time making a decision. Since we got our mortgage in July, the interest rate has gone up again, and is slated to go up once or twice more in the coming year.

When interest rates are low and the market is hot, and bidding wars are common, you could end up making a decision in the heat of the moment, and once interest rates rise, you could be in trouble. That’s what happened to our friend. He’s now selling investments to pay for his mortgage since interest rates have almost doubled for him and he can no longer afford the mortgage on his million dollar home. Plus he waived the inspection and is now bleeding money replacing old, broken roofs and furnaces, etc. Plus he chose a variable interest rate mortgage instead of a fixed one, so he’s kind of hurting right now.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 05:40:24 PM by Freedomin5 »

Zamboni

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2023, 11:01:30 AM »
^Congrats on your new home!

Dave is right that there are deals to be had in pretty much any housing market if you are looking for awhile and very ready to pounce. The issue I have with Dave continuing to push this narrative is that those deals are fewer and farther between than they have been for pretty much the last decade, but he continues to push it. I think he has "Ramsey certified" real estate agents or some other such nonsense, so obviously he has a conflict of interest and therefore his advice in this matter should generally be ignored.

LiveLean

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2023, 01:51:18 PM »
I miss the previous intro schtick of "Debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW in the driveway."

Now they're trying to be a lifestyle brand. Whatever.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2023, 03:56:08 PM »
We unwittingly followed Dave Ramsey’s advice this month. Closing this week on a house. 5.58% interest rate, 5-year fixed (in Canada, that’s the standard term). The mortgage payment is about 15% of our take-home income, so we plan to double up the payments and pay it off as quickly as possible.

Because of the high interest rates, this house had been sitting on the market for over two months, and the owner had dropped the price. We got it for $40k less than the original asking price, which was already $25k lower than the asking price of similar houses in the neighborhood. It’s in a good neighborhood though, near a major university, and houses don’t typically go on the market in that area. (This year, there were two in the specific micro-neighborhood we were looking at, and we bought one of them.)

Because the market has slowed down, we were able to put in a few conditions and take our time making a decision. Since we got our mortgage in July, the interest rate has gone up again, and is slated to go up once or twice more in the coming year.

When interest rates are low and the market is hot, and bidding wars are common, you could end up making a decision in the heat of the moment, and once interest rates rise, you could be in trouble. That’s what happened to our friend. He’s now selling investments to pay for his mortgage since interest rates have almost doubled for him and he can no longer afford the mortgage on his million dollar home. Plus he waived the inspection and is now bleeding money replacing old, broken roofs and furnaces, etc. Plus he chose a variable interest rate mortgage instead of a fixed one, so he’s kind of hurting right now.

Congrats on your new home. I think your strategy is similar to mine. When the housing market slows, I think this is a great opportunity to maximize your preference on location. Buy in the best neighborhood that you can afford and also makes sense for you. It seems like when the housing market is hot, the best neighborhoods have cash offers. It's also the easiest to unload problem properties with tons of deferred maintenance when the market is hot, IMO.

Freedomin5

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2023, 07:18:08 AM »
We unwittingly followed Dave Ramsey’s advice this month. Closing this week on a house. 5.58% interest rate, 5-year fixed (in Canada, that’s the standard term). The mortgage payment is about 15% of our take-home income, so we plan to double up the payments and pay it off as quickly as possible.

Because of the high interest rates, this house had been sitting on the market for over two months, and the owner had dropped the price. We got it for $40k less than the original asking price, which was already $25k lower than the asking price of similar houses in the neighborhood. It’s in a good neighborhood though, near a major university, and houses don’t typically go on the market in that area. (This year, there were two in the specific micro-neighborhood we were looking at, and we bought one of them.)

Because the market has slowed down, we were able to put in a few conditions and take our time making a decision. Since we got our mortgage in July, the interest rate has gone up again, and is slated to go up once or twice more in the coming year.

When interest rates are low and the market is hot, and bidding wars are common, you could end up making a decision in the heat of the moment, and once interest rates rise, you could be in trouble. That’s what happened to our friend. He’s now selling investments to pay for his mortgage since interest rates have almost doubled for him and he can no longer afford the mortgage on his million dollar home. Plus he waived the inspection and is now bleeding money replacing old, broken roofs and furnaces, etc. Plus he chose a variable interest rate mortgage instead of a fixed one, so he’s kind of hurting right now.

Congrats on your new home. I think your strategy is similar to mine. When the housing market slows, I think this is a great opportunity to maximize your preference on location. Buy in the best neighborhood that you can afford and also makes sense for you. It seems like when the housing market is hot, the best neighborhoods have cash offers. It's also the easiest to unload problem properties with tons of deferred maintenance when the market is hot, IMO.

Yes, we bought a small, dated, but still functional house in the area for a bit over $600k. Other houses (larger, updated) in the area are all listed for over a million. Our strategy has typically been to buy the worst house in the best neighborhood. And we avoid bidding wars. Our market is now considered balanced / shifting towards a buyer’s market. So it seemed like a good time to buy something affordable that we could pay off quickly to mitigate the effects of a higher interest rate. We also were watching the real estate market for the past two years waiting for things to settle. The deals can be had, but you have to be patient. We just used that time to increase our downpayment.

Samuel

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2023, 09:56:41 AM »
Housing prices have gotten so out of control where we live, that you would need to be a dual income household making well above these engineer salaries to be able to afford a home.

Lol'ing over here in Seattle...

By Dave's rules (20% down and 15 year mortgage no more than 1/4 of take home pay) you'd need to make $23,780 a month after taxes to "afford" the median house ($819,500). After putting $163,000 down...

roomtempmayo

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2023, 10:53:04 AM »
Sounds to me like his overall point can be summarized as "The best time to buy a house is when you are in a good position to buy a house"

Yeah, another way to look at it is that it's always a bad time to buy a house.  Interest rates go down, prices go up.  Interest rates go up, prices don't go down enough.  The ratchet seems like it only turns one way, and that's pretty much been true for 15 years with no real end in sight because there aren't enough houses to go around in places people want to live.

We bought our house in 2018 assuming we'd get hosed on it since prices felt very high.  But we bought it anyway since we wanted to live in it and weren't planning to move anytime soon.  It's turned into one of the best financial choices we've ever made, although it could have easily gone the other way, too.  There was no real way to predict the future.

The advice to buy below your means and only buy if you're planning to stay 5+ years (I'd say 8-10 now) is still solid.  Price and interest rate fluctuations will mostly come out in the wash over the long haul as long as you don't overextend yourself or need to move on a short timeline.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2023, 12:31:35 PM »
Sounds to me like his overall point can be summarized as "The best time to buy a house is when you are in a good position to buy a house"

Yeah, another way to look at it is that it's always a bad time to buy a house.  Interest rates go down, prices go up.  Interest rates go up, prices don't go down enough.  The ratchet seems like it only turns one way, and that's pretty much been true for 15 years with no real end in sight because there aren't enough houses to go around in places people want to live.

We bought our house in 2018 assuming we'd get hosed on it since prices felt very high.  But we bought it anyway since we wanted to live in it and weren't planning to move anytime soon.  It's turned into one of the best financial choices we've ever made, although it could have easily gone the other way, too.  There was no real way to predict the future.

The advice to buy below your means and only buy if you're planning to stay 5+ years (I'd say 8-10 now) is still solid.  Price and interest rate fluctuations will mostly come out in the wash over the long haul as long as you don't overextend yourself or need to move on a short timeline.

Buying below your means-- paying less than the bank will agree to loan you-- is always a better option than the so-called "conventional wisdom" of buying as much house as you can afford, with the definition of "afford" being "what the bank is willing to lend me". Borrowing that heavily is a consumer debt-slave sukka move that is likely to produce misery even if the property gains value.

Scandium

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2023, 08:46:34 AM »
^Rapid rises in insurance and tax rates on homes is not something all homeowners have factored in very well. It affects everyone who owns, and in some local areas those two homeowner expenses have seen pretty extreme increases.
Florida checking in

merula

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2023, 08:50:00 AM »
^Rapid rises in insurance and tax rates on homes is not something all homeowners have factored in very well. It affects everyone who owns, and in some local areas those two homeowner expenses have seen pretty extreme increases.
Florida checking in

Florida insurance rates are not likely to come down anytime soon. The state is still super unprofitable from the standpoint of insurance carriers, even with the recent changes in insurance-related law, and at least at my carrier we're taking more of a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to the actual cost impact of many of those changes.

life_travel

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2023, 10:32:03 PM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!
Here in Australia I don't know anyone who buys on 15 year mortgage , especially their 1st place,  so with 30 years in OP example it will be $2212 ( and you can pay a bit extra if in the future if you can afford it).

We bought our first house in 2001 , it was very run down, we had no deposit , and I don't even remember the rates at the time ( certainly not 2 or 3%!) , I was on $9 an hour , my husband was on $16 an hour, but it propelled us into home ownership.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2023, 10:35:51 PM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!


Yup, not sure when else is the time to buy.

ATtiny85

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2023, 06:07:30 AM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!


Yup, not sure when else is the time to buy.

Yeah, the tone of this (to me) is why I do not consider our house a true asset on our balance sheet. We needed/wanted a place to live, we bought a house. The GAAP in our household views the house as a neutral element. I personally view it more as a local black hole, sucking the ever-increasing expenses off the top of the cash pile each month.

It's a weird thing, having a house. It sits here providing shelter and protection, and that's good. But it also sits here ready to cost us many thousands of dollars, which is bad. HVAC, plumbing, roof, and hundreds of other things just waiting to break.

ixtap

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2023, 08:26:42 AM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!


Yup, not sure when else is the time to buy.

Yeah, the tone of this (to me) is why I do not consider our house a true asset on our balance sheet. We needed/wanted a place to live, we bought a house. The GAAP in our household views the house as a neutral element. I personally view it more as a local black hole, sucking the ever-increasing expenses off the top of the cash pile each month.

It's a weird thing, having a house. It sits here providing shelter and protection, and that's good. But it also sits here ready to cost us many thousands of dollars, which is bad. HVAC, plumbing, roof, and hundreds of other things just waiting to break.

You should try living on a boat.

ATtiny85

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2023, 10:27:11 AM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!


Yup, not sure when else is the time to buy.

Yeah, the tone of this (to me) is why I do not consider our house a true asset on our balance sheet. We needed/wanted a place to live, we bought a house. The GAAP in our household views the house as a neutral element. I personally view it more as a local black hole, sucking the ever-increasing expenses off the top of the cash pile each month.

It's a weird thing, having a house. It sits here providing shelter and protection, and that's good. But it also sits here ready to cost us many thousands of dollars, which is bad. HVAC, plumbing, roof, and hundreds of other things just waiting to break.

You should try living on a boat.

Hey, I am trying to feel sorry myself here. No need to remind me that I am livin' the easy life compared to some.

ixtap

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2023, 10:35:09 AM »
Just buy the house when you're ready!


Yup, not sure when else is the time to buy.

Yeah, the tone of this (to me) is why I do not consider our house a true asset on our balance sheet. We needed/wanted a place to live, we bought a house. The GAAP in our household views the house as a neutral element. I personally view it more as a local black hole, sucking the ever-increasing expenses off the top of the cash pile each month.

It's a weird thing, having a house. It sits here providing shelter and protection, and that's good. But it also sits here ready to cost us many thousands of dollars, which is bad. HVAC, plumbing, roof, and hundreds of other things just waiting to break.

You should try living on a boat.

Hey, I am trying to feel sorry myself here. No need to remind me that I am livin' the easy life compared to some.

Haha, I love living on a boat. But it is a harsh environment with a lot of systems to take care of!

mizzourah2006

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2023, 11:32:39 AM »
Remember he also sets aside 10% for tithing. So in reality he is saying that you can buy a home that is 35% of your take home on a 15 year if you are ignoring his suggestion to tithe 10%.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Dave Ramsey gives yet more garbungo advice to homebuyers
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2023, 06:31:59 PM »
Remember he also sets aside 10% for tithing. So in reality he is saying that you can buy a home that is 35% of your take home on a 15 year if you are ignoring his suggestion to tithe 10%.

That’s a fair point actually.  There’s not a chance in hell I could buy a place within 500 miles that I could afford within his rules of 25% including insurance and taxes, with 20% down on a 15 year.  Doesn’t matter how small or rundown or remote.  35% though, that might work. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!