Author Topic: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?  (Read 28827 times)

footenote

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Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« on: June 27, 2013, 11:37:29 AM »
I have been guilty of watching the unfolding Paula Deen story like I was rubbernecking a five-car pileup. So hard. To look. Away.

I was astonished to learn that the original hostile workplace lawsuit asks for only $1.2mm. That would have been 7.5% of her previously-reported $16mm net worth:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/don-mcnay/why-did-paula-deens-legal_b_3483530.html

(And, as McNay speculates, the woman bringing the suit might have been happy to settle for $1mm or even less.)

As of this writing, Dean has now lost lucrative relationships with the Food Network, Smithfield, Walmart, four restaurants owned by Caesars, and Target. (Novo Nordisk says they and Dean, who was promoting their diabetes drug, have "mutually agreed to suspend our patient education activities for now.")

Granted, Ms Dean is not an attorney and may have received poor advice. But I wonder if  she got good advice and refused to take it. (As McNay says, virtually zero lawsuits go to trial these days.) Toward the end of her Today Show interview, she said "There's someone evil out there that saw what I had worked for and they wanted it." I suspect she just couldn't bring herself to shell out to make this hostile workplace lawsuit go away.

That's an understandable feeling from someone who (think what you will of her) has worked her tail off for decades. But what a Pyrrhic victory. Can you think of a worse example of a self-made person self-destructing?

DoubleDown

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 03:44:55 PM »
Going to trial is almost always lose-lose. You'd have to think her attorneys advised her to settle on some amount to make this go away. Hell if I ever had to answer in a deposition if I'd ever said anything racist, sexist, or otherwise horrible or offensive to someone I'd probably have to answer, "You mean since yesterday?"

Good question, I'll have to think about other self-destruction stories.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 04:15:27 PM »
I haven't gotten all the gory details, but to me it looks like she thought she was too big to mess with, and got taken down by her own hubris.

She should have settled the lawsuit and let it disappear while publicly appearing sad and apologetic for being misunderstood.

She should definitely not have gone on record ANYWHERE making excuses or seeming to be angry or belittling the issues.

My husband thinks she is done - like there is no comeback for her. I said that the public loves a scandal, but they have remarkably short memories and forgiving natures, so give her a few years and she'll probably work her way back into some sort of public figure again. But probably won't be the same scale she had before.


You could find plenty of similar fodder in the political campaigns that have been tanked for having secret girlfriends/babies and other behind the scenes scandals.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 04:17:36 PM by Frankies Girl »

Joet

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 04:19:58 PM »
I'm assuming the simplistic answer is Dean thought she had 'done no harm', and therefore wasnt going to be bullied into settling for anything on the principle of things (Southern, White, Old, etc)

I certainly havent been paying attention though. Probably operating under the "...when you're right, you're right" and refused to settle. Indeed Pyrrhic victory. I'm assuming also she over-rode counsel advice to the contrary. Good for her. I do like her story though, and she seems charming enough. She weathered the husband leaving her with no career and a bunch of kids, she weathered diabetes---both her own and however many other cases she encouraged..., I'm sure she'll get over this one too. She'll still have a career I am sure. Maybe not nationally any longer but I hate to say it she probably just pandered to her base and increased her local value. Yeah I said it.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 04:25:51 PM by Joet »

Eric

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2013, 04:29:00 PM »
I do like her story though, and she seems charming enough.

Yeah, that's one charming racist.  It's not too often you get to combine those two words in a sentence.

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 04:39:12 PM »
DoubleDown - My surprise was that strict confidential is a requirement of out of court settlements - so she wouldn't have had to say a word!

Joet - Agree she most likely was stubborn and felt she didn't need to yield to a lawsuit. If true, imagine her attorneys' grimaces today.

Frankies Girl - I agree with you. Remind your husband that Martha Stewart has returned after a stint in the Big House! But, with the addition of Home Depot to the list of lost sponsors / partners just in the six hours since my OP, I expect she will be down several million in net worth, regardless.

Eric - Many racists come off as charming - just one of the (many) reasons they are so despicable.

grantmeaname

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 05:27:50 PM »
Eric - Many racists come off as charming - just one of the (many) reasons they are so despicable.
Him without sin, stones, sound familiar?

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 05:47:50 PM »
Eric - Many racists come off as charming - just one of the (many) reasons they are so despicable.
Him without sin, stones, sound familiar?
Nope - like almost all of us, I have my biases, and I try to cop to the ones I'm aware of. (90% = despising anyone who is not an INTJ.*) I just hope I'm not charming about it.
   ; )

*Only 1/2 kidding.

Jamesqf

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 05:59:52 PM »
Eric - Many racists come off as charming - just one of the (many) reasons they are so despicable.

Don't know anything about the person in question, but a refusal to use whatever's currently politically correct language does not equate to being a racist.

Joet

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 06:58:47 PM »
more precisely: we're all racist, classist, etc to some degree or another --eg a point on the continuum somewhere north of zero and less than 100 on an arbitrary 0 to KKK scale, some just hide it better than others and don't act on it (as an employer, manager, neighbor, business partner, celebrity, or whatever)

NumberCruncher

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 07:07:39 PM »
more precisely: we're all racist, classist, etc to some degree or another --eg a point on the continuum somewhere north of zero and less than 100 on an arbitrary 0 to KKK scale, some just hide it better than others and don't act on it (as an employer, manager, neighbor, business partner, celebrity, or whatever)

I'm not racist -> this test says so!  ;)   https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/featuredtask.html

Also - this topic just gets Avenue Q stuck in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM
It's a good thing!

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 07:23:54 PM »
more precisely: we're all racist, classist, etc to some degree or another --eg a point on the continuum somewhere north of zero and less than 100 on an arbitrary 0 to KKK scale, some just hide it better than others and don't act on it (as an employer, manager, neighbor, business partner, celebrity, or whatever)
+1

englyn

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 08:09:13 PM »
We could not be human without categorising and making generalisations, it's a critical part of intelligence. Absence of racism isn't absence of making generalisations, it's being aware of bias in our own minds and being very careful not to act on it, speak of it or allow it to affect how we treat other people.

despising anyone who is not an INTJ.*
*Only 1/2 kidding.
HA. +1.

Jamesqf

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 12:12:13 AM »
more precisely: we're all racist, classist, etc to some degree or another...

Not the point I was trying to make.  Accepting your contention for the sake of discussion, the degree of racism isn't in a 1:1 relationship with language.  Someone - anyone who wants a career in politics, for instance - can carefully use all the properly politically correct language, and still be in the 90s on your KKK scale, or be un-PC but in the low teens.

CorpRaider

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 06:27:15 AM »
I thought this hasn't gone to trial and the info came out in a deposition and other discovery.

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 06:29:33 AM »
You are correct. The deposition is what has caused the furor. Our talk about the trial in this thread alludes to an upcoming trial. (Unless she now settles out of court. But regardless, the horse that's causing her financial damage is already out of the barn.)

Forcus

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 08:39:56 AM »
I kind of missed the story, what's the Cliff Notes on what happened? All I read is she is a supposed racist and she lost some (most?) of her chain store customers.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 09:14:30 AM »
I kind of missed the story, what's the Cliff Notes on what happened? All I read is she is a supposed racist and she lost some (most?) of her chain store customers.

Caveat: I'm getting this from mainstream media sources and I may be leaving out key details, but what I know for Cliff Notes version:

* Paula (and brother) getting sued for a hostile work environment for how they run a restaurant
* In a deposition she was asked "have you ever used the N word" and she had to answer "yes".  I believe there was a followup of "Have you used it within the last X years?" with answer "yes".

That feels like there is data missing... but... it's what I know.  (I mean: Holy crap, I've used it recently just to discuss this case.  Was there no followup question of context?)


Joet

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 09:18:35 AM »
What about the lavish party at her mansion/plantation where there were nothing but middle aged black male servants dressed identically in classical servant guise

Eric

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 09:43:44 AM »
Eric - Many racists come off as charming - just one of the (many) reasons they are so despicable.

Don't know anything about the person in question, but a refusal to use whatever's currently politically correct language does not equate to being a racist.

She was a fan of using the N word.  Blaming the fallout from that on political correctness instead of racism is absurd.

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 09:57:45 AM »
I kind of missed the story, what's the Cliff Notes on what happened? All I read is she is a supposed racist and she lost some (most?) of her chain store customers.
Additional facts:
- The hostile workplace suit alleges frequent profanity (including but not limited to the N-word), viewing of pornography and violence.
- The woman suing asked for $1.2 million.
- Paula Dean did not throw a plantation-themed party. She talked about how much she would like to throw a plantation-themed party with all black, middle-aged, male waitstaff.
- We don't know if Dean's attorneys advised her to settle out of court with a confidentiality agreement required. But other lawyers have commented that such a settlement is recommended virtually 100% of the time. If Dean had settled out of court, none of this would have happened.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 10:25:05 AM »
I may not share her beliefs, but I like to see people stand up for their beliefs.  Going to court instead of settling has the unfortunate side-effect of making lawyers rich.  However, the settling of the '80s/'90s appears to be coming to an end.  During that time we learned that when everyone starts settling, people start taking advantage of that.  Lawsuit count goes up, dollar value skyrockets, all trying to find the edge where someone will/won't settle.  It's bad for the economy overall as it wastes resources.  We need more people that will stand up and fight lawsuits.  It may cost an individual more short term, but will save society (and possibly that individual) more over the long term.

I have a hard time taking racism seriously to being with though.  IMO, it's just a game being played to try and scam people.  As your typical middle-aged white guy, I've been a target for racism a number of times.  Apparently it's just fine for blacks to call whites racist things in this country.  I refuse to respond with racist return comments as I don't believe in defining people by the color of their skin.  However, it's become readily apparent that the so called victims oftentimes don't share my belief that all are equal.  I shed no tears for those groups when they go crying racism.  You need to stop it on your end first before you have any call to point the finger at others.

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 10:42:11 AM »
I may not share her beliefs, but I like to see people stand up for their beliefs.  Going to court instead of settling has the unfortunate side-effect of making lawyers rich.  However, the settling of the '80s/'90s appears to be coming to an end.  During that time we learned that when everyone starts settling, people start taking advantage of that.  Lawsuit count goes up, dollar value skyrockets, all trying to find the edge where someone will/won't settle.  It's bad for the economy overall as it wastes resources.  We need more people that will stand up and fight lawsuits.  It may cost an individual more short term, but will save society (and possibly that individual) more over the long term.

I have a hard time taking racism seriously to being with though.  IMO, it's just a game being played to try and scam people.  As your typical middle-aged white guy, I've been a target for racism a number of times.  Apparently it's just fine for blacks to call whites racist things in this country.  I refuse to respond with racist return comments as I don't believe in defining people by the color of their skin.  However, it's become readily apparent that the so called victims oftentimes don't share my belief that all are equal.  I shed no tears for those groups when they go crying racism.  You need to stop it on your end first before you have any call to point the finger at others.

Yeah it's up to the people who are being discriminated against to solve racism within their own ranks before being expected to have equal treatment and rights amongst society. Like you might think NYPD's Stop and Frisk program is racist but it's not, because the non-white people being targeted need to clean up their racism first.
/sarcasm off

Look I may be too snarky for you on that one. I'm assuming by your words that you're talking racism in general, while you may be talking about casual interaction sort of racism and forgetting about all the institutionalized racism which is supported by that casual interaction sort of racism.

In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?


grantmeaname

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 10:48:46 AM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?
http://www.umich.edu/

Eric

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 11:00:50 AM »
As your typical middle-aged white guy, I've been a target for racism a number of times.

I hear ya!  We middle aged white guys have it the worst!  I can't even tell you how sick I am of going shopping and not having security follow me through the store.  Or how I don't get pulled over by the cops for just driving through town all the time because I fit the description of a suspect.  Or how we're not incarcerated at higher rates and serve longer sentences for the exact same crimes.  When will we ever catch a break?!?

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2013, 11:05:46 AM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?
http://www.umich.edu/

http://www.admissions.umich.edu/glance

Percentage of community who are minorities is 27%. Could you be more specific in pointing out the racist institution within the University of Michigan?

footenote

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2013, 11:14:37 AM »
I may not share her beliefs, but I like to see people stand up for their beliefs.  Going to court instead of settling has the unfortunate side-effect of making lawyers rich.  However, the settling of the '80s/'90s appears to be coming to an end.  During that time we learned that when everyone starts settling, people start taking advantage of that.  Lawsuit count goes up, dollar value skyrockets, all trying to find the edge where someone will/won't settle.  It's bad for the economy overall as it wastes resources.  We need more people that will stand up and fight lawsuits.  It may cost an individual more short term, but will save society (and possibly that individual) more over the long term.

I have a hard time taking racism seriously to being with though.  IMO, it's just a game being played to try and scam people.  As your typical middle-aged white guy, I've been a target for racism a number of times.  Apparently it's just fine for blacks to call whites racist things in this country.  I refuse to respond with racist return comments as I don't believe in defining people by the color of their skin.  However, it's become readily apparent that the so called victims oftentimes don't share my belief that all are equal.  I shed no tears for those groups when they go crying racism.  You need to stop it on your end first before you have any call to point the finger at others.
How about violence and pornography in the workplace? You ok with those?

DoubleDown

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2013, 11:43:04 AM »
Speaking of other famous implosions, huge losses to net worth, hubris, and racism:

Mel Gibson

Jamesqf

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2013, 11:51:58 AM »
She was a fan of using the N word.  Blaming the fallout from that on political correctness instead of racism is absurd.

Absurd why?  I've known quite a few black people to use the "N word": are they all racist?  If it's possible for a black person to use it without being racist, why isn't it possible for a white person to do so?  And if you say it's not... Well, aren't you being racist right there?

We middle aged white guys have it the worst!  I can't even tell you how sick I am of going shopping and not having security follow me through the store.  Or how I don't get pulled over by the cops for just driving through town all the time because I fit the description of a suspect.

Humm... Guess you've never been a poor white guy.  There's only two colors that matter to cops: blue and green.

How about violence and pornography in the workplace? You ok with those?

From what I understand, a large part of the computer-using workforce views pornography in the workplace.  If I had to make a choice, I think I would prefer that to e.g. parents' graphic depictions of their infants' potty training.

As for violence, are you asking about depictions, or actual?  If the former, movies, TV, and video games are full of it, so what's the problem?  If we're talking about actual violence, well, I can give back far more than I get :-)

grantmeaname

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2013, 11:57:09 AM »
Could you be more specific in pointing out the racist institution within the University of Michigan?
You must have a short memory. And that was tongue-firmly-in-cheek, lest I slip by your sarcasm detector again.

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2013, 12:23:28 PM »
Sorry I can shrug off lots of things but I guess I can have my sarcasm blinders on when the reverse racism claims get bandied about. I may just take it too seriously to read carefully.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2013, 12:42:38 PM »
Absurd why?  I've known quite a few black people to use the "N word": are they all racist?  If it's possible for a black person to use it without being racist, why isn't it possible for a white person to do so?  And if you say it's not... Well, aren't you being racist right there?
http://rapgenius.com/search?q=nigga

I don't much about rap, but I would bet that only a tiny fraction (if any) of the hits above are from white lyricists. Is it stupid? Asbsolutely. Am I going to start using the N-word around to prove a point? Hell no.

In regards to university admissions, you don't have to go very far on a college campus to hear people ranting about race 'quotas' and how asians have it so hard and blacks so easy...

Spork

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2013, 12:56:40 PM »
If we're speaking in general now (and not necessarily about Paula)...   Context is everything.

* My grandparents: growing up probably saw half a dozen black people.  They had little or no opinion about them.  They used the N word and didn't think anything of it.
* My parents: saw racial turmoil.  They were probably slightly racist, but were tolerant.  "They had black friends" as people say... but probably looked down on blacks in general.  They knew better than to use the word, but sometimes did it anyway.
* Me: depending on context, I can just not care if I hear it or it can just make my flesh crawl.  I'm a white guy and pretty much know I've had things pretty easy.  I've seen how some folks are hurt by the word and I don't really like to hear it except in a more 'clinical setting'.  (I.e, as in talking about it).

As to rap... I can't stand the stuff, but I totally sort of get why rappers would use it.  The word only stings if you let it.  If they're badass enough to own it and let it roll off their backs when others use it, then the word loses its power.  I'm cool with that.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2013, 01:09:49 PM »
I have previously been considering this a non-news media story. 
My understanding was she used the N word 20+ years ago and is (mostly unfairly) being persecuted for it now.

But it seems maybe the racism was deeper than just the N word, and maybe she's still using the N word.  Anyone have any facts on this?

Spork

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2013, 01:13:41 PM »
I have previously been considering this a non-news media story. 
My understanding was she used the N word 20+ years ago and is (mostly unfairly) being persecuted for it now.

But it seems maybe the racism was deeper than just the N word, and maybe she's still using the N word.  Anyone have any facts on this?

This has honestly been my take on this so far as well.  But, if more facts surfaced I'd be willing to change my opinion of her.

grantmeaname

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2013, 01:20:22 PM »
This is much less offensive to me than the donut burger-Novo Nordisk debacle.

Eric

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2013, 01:24:45 PM »
She was a fan of using the N word.  Blaming the fallout from that on political correctness instead of racism is absurd.

Absurd why?  I've known quite a few black people to use the "N word": are they all racist?  If it's possible for a black person to use it without being racist, why isn't it possible for a white person to do so?  And if you say it's not... Well, aren't you being racist right there?


Sure it's possible that Paula Deen was using the N word because she is colorblind and that's how she was relating to her black best friends.  However, Occam's Razor would say otherwise.

MgoSam

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2013, 01:32:17 PM »
If anyone has seen "The Social Network," this is why Mark's lawyers advised him to settle with a confidentiality clause, they know that any knowledge of the details would hurt Mark far worse than anything that would come out in trial, or if the lawyers were able to leak the depositions. Sadly, it sometimes it better to pay for it to go away.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2013, 01:32:48 PM »
I so agree with Spork, context is everything indeed.  I live in Richmond, and you still see the Confederate flag a lot in these parts.  Some from history buffs, some from rednecks.  The flag means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, especially blacks who for darned good reason don't look fondly on it at all.  A lot of whites hear still claim "heritage, not hate" in regards to the flag, but come on already.  That heritage is a very hurtful symbol to a lot of people.  It's tacky.

The problem I have with the supposed power of the N word is that while you never see a black guy in Richmond sporting a Confederate flag for pretty obvious reasons, the N word gets tossed about pretty casually within elements of the black community, especially younger generations.  So as a member of the white community I think it is fair to ask, hey, at what point does the double-standard line get crossed?  I get the context element, but still...  I'm not arguing whites should ever use that word, we shouldn't, I'm simply wondering aloud if the supposed potency is artificially high when it is used given the words prevalence within black society itself.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2013, 01:44:59 PM »
I have previously been considering this a non-news media story. 
My understanding was she used the N word 20+ years ago and is (mostly unfairly) being persecuted for it now.

But it seems maybe the racism was deeper than just the N word, and maybe she's still using the N word.  Anyone have any facts on this?

This has honestly been my take on this so far as well.  But, if more facts surfaced I'd be willing to change my opinion of her.

I haven't followed it closely either but if you told me that a 66 year old Southern white woman had used the word pretty casually in the past I'd say Wow, real surprise to this Richmonder /end sarcasm.

I was in high school in the early 80s, and damn near every guy I knew used homosexual slurs as a part of casual conversation.  So if you were to have asked me under oath "Have you ever used the word faggot" I would have said "Of course I did, we all did".  It doesn't make it right or acceptable, and it may seem shocking to the twenty-somethings in this forum, but that's just what a 1983 high school looked like.  I'm not the least bit proud of it, but the point is that was so 30 years ago.  People and society change (I certainly did).   Whether Paula Deen changed, I don't know.  Don't really care (not following the case closely, nor care to).  John Oliver summed it up best as far as I am concerened.  "Paula Deen did more to hurt black people with her cooking than anything she ever said!" 

Spork

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2013, 01:54:23 PM »
I was in high school in the early 80s, and damn near every guy I knew used homosexual slurs as a part of casual conversation.  So if you were to have asked me under oath "Have you ever used the word faggot" I would have said "Of course I did, we all did".  It doesn't make it right or acceptable, and it may seem shocking to the twenty-somethings in this forum, but that's just what a 1983 high school looked like.  I'm not the least bit proud of it, but the point is that was so 30 years ago.  People and society change (I certainly did).   

I'm the same age.  And this example exactly came to my mind. 

BlueMR2

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2013, 03:06:39 PM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?

I tend to avoid the institutions that are built on racism, but it's easy to give you an example.  You won't get anywhere in government or a police department these days unless you're black.  Us white folk need not apply anymore.

BlueMR2

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2013, 03:08:19 PM »
How about violence and pornography in the workplace? You ok with those?

Not sure what you mean about violence?  Depictions of?  Or going around murdering people?  There's a wide variation there.  Some of which I'm OK with, some I'm not.

Pornography, I'm fine with.  I just won't be visiting your cube.  :-)

BlueMR2

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2013, 03:23:07 PM »
We middle aged white guys have it the worst!  I can't even tell you how sick I am of going shopping and not having security follow me through the store.  Or how I don't get pulled over by the cops for just driving through town all the time because I fit the description of a suspect.

Humm... Guess you've never been a poor white guy.  There's only two colors that matter to cops: blue and green.

Indeed.  We weren't "poor" growing up, but we were definitely at the lower end of middle class.  You look poor, you get followed no matter what your color is.  You get hassled occasionally.  You even get absolutely ridiculous tickets that nobody else would get (neighbor kid actually got a ticket, with monetary fine ($25, I believe, an absolute fortune to him) for riding his bike on the wrong side of the street in virtually zero traffic neighborhood when I was a kid).

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2013, 03:51:30 PM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?

I tend to avoid the institutions that are built on racism, but it's easy to give you an example.  You won't get anywhere in government or a police department these days unless you're black.  Us white folk need not apply anymore.

After I picked up my jaw from the floor I decided to check people who may have gotten somewhere in government. US House and Senate. See this site http://thisnation.com/congress-facts.html

   House   Senate
White   361   96
Black   44   0
Hispanic   25   2
Asion   7   2
American Indian   1   0

Now sure this information is a year old so maybe somehow you're right and the 96 white people were ousted from the Senate.

Do you have any facts to back up your statement? You say it's easy to give an example and then fail to.

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2013, 03:55:41 PM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?

I tend to avoid the institutions that are built on racism, but it's easy to give you an example.  You won't get anywhere in government or a police department these days unless you're black.  Us white folk need not apply anymore.

Even better. The entire US federal government's demographic profile.

http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/demographics/2006/table1-1.pdf

Still 71.6% white from '94 to '06.

matchewed

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2013, 04:04:30 PM »
In your case where are the institutions built which reflect that racism you've been a target of?

I tend to avoid the institutions that are built on racism, but it's easy to give you an example.  You won't get anywhere in government or a police department these days unless you're black.  Us white folk need not apply anymore.

Got two more for you then I'll let you think about how stupid your statement is.

Demographics for NYPD and LAPD - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Police_Department#Demographics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department#Demographics

Much more diverse and representative of the populations they are supposed to protect and serve. Still white people there. And I'm sure they're either getting or have gotten somewhere.

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2013, 05:11:24 PM »
I so agree with Spork, context is everything indeed.  I live in Richmond, and you still see the Confederate flag a lot in these parts.  Some from history buffs, some from rednecks.  The flag means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, especially blacks who for darned good reason don't look fondly on it at all.  A lot of whites hear still claim "heritage, not hate" in regards to the flag, but come on already.  That heritage is a very hurtful symbol to a lot of people.  It's tacky.

So we should all give up hurtful language & symbols?  Well, how about "nerd" and "geek"?  I might be hurt by those if a) I gave a damn; and b) I wasn't making way better money than most of the people using the words :-)  Symbols?  Well, how about all those Christian crosses and so on?  Not real pleasant reminders to us non-Christians.


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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2013, 05:52:25 PM »
Its so crazy to me that there are people who are more offended by the use of the word "racist" than the "N word".


Sorry but if you insult people based on their race its completely legitimate to call you a racist, even if it hurts your feelings. 

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Re: Cutting your nose off to spite your... net worth?
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »
Its so crazy to me that there are people who are more offended by the use of the word "racist" than the "N word".
Which people would those be?

Quote
Sorry but if you insult people based on their race its completely legitimate to call you a racist, even if it hurts your feelings.
Who, if anyone, has disagreed with this?