Clowns sad that clown tower not as awesome as initially envisioned

[Abe]

Clown-on-clown bickering is erupting in NYC’s most famous clown towers. Tiny violins expected to arrive soon, but how will they get them up there if the elevators are broken?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/03/realestate/luxury-high-rise-432-park.html

[Adventine]

That was such an entertaining article. Thank you.

Here are my favorite snippets:

"She was disappointed with her purchase on day one."

“Everybody hates each other here,”

“Everything here was camouflage,” she said. “If I knew then what I know now, I would have never bought.”

[uniwelder]

My dad worked as a carpenter in NYC and would tell me all kinds of stories about the luxury apartments they’d be working on. He said it was absolutely shameful how cheaply it was all done even though it all got covered with a facade of expensive tile and exotic wood.

[kite]

My dad worked as a carpenter in NYC and would tell me all kinds of stories about the luxury apartments they’d be working on. He said it was absolutely shameful how cheaply it was all done even though it all got covered with a facade of expensive tile and exotic wood.

I believe it.
Was visiting some people who had a the Penthouse apartment and on first glance it seemed quite posh. Then when I went to use the restroom, I noticed that the vanity had a marble top on the cheapest ass particle board cabinet. 
The mid-fifties, suburban tract house where I grew up had better tiles and fixtures in what was (and remains) a working class neighborhood. 

[iluvzbeach]

I can only imagine Ms. Abramovitch’s horror at being subjected to the following:

“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,” she said. “That’s how I went up to my hoity-toity apartment before closing.”

Poor thing.

/s

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Hmm. McMansion-ization goes high-rise. Who would have thought it? /s

[zolotiyeruki]

This just reinforces my desire to own a modestly-sized, exceptionally-well-built single family home on its own land when I retire.  No condo associations, no neighbors in the same building, high quality design and materials, low maintenance and utility costs, no hoity-toity neighborhood, etc.

But it better have a 4+ car garage...

[Abe]

Even a hundred million in the sky can’t buy you peace and quiet in NYC.

[Metalcat]

This just reinforces my desire to own a modestly-sized, exceptionally-well-built single family home on its own land when I retire.  No condo associations, no neighbors in the same building, high quality design and materials, low maintenance and utility costs, no hoity-toity neighborhood, etc.

But it better have a 4+ car garage...

Funny, reading this makes me grateful for my extremely well built, virtually sound proof high rise with polite but very private neighbours, and a fantastic management team.

[Dave1442397]

Crazy. I had to see what was for sale there on Zillow. One apartment for $90MM, and I think the other one I looked at was $48MM.

I'd much rather have a nice apartment in The Dakota building, if they let me in :)

[Travis]

I can only imagine Ms. Abramovitch’s horror at being subjected to the following:

“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,” she said. “That’s how I went up to my hoity-toity apartment before closing.”

Poor thing.

/s

At least she acknowledges she's speaking from a severe position of privilege, and is using her real name rather than speaking publicly through a lawyer or shell company.

[ysette9]

I spent some list browsing active listings in the building. Sure, the units are beautiful, but I dunno. I suppose you are paying for the location? The windows and views are beautiful but I feel like the hotels I stayed at in China for work travel were just as nice. And with a hotel you aren't stuck with $4k-7k/month HOA dues.

[Dollar Slice]

I suppose you are paying for the location?

The location is good (not one I would pick, but if you are some rich asshole who likes very expensive restaurants, spends all their time in midtown/FiDi, and goes to the airport a lot, it's probably great). About a block from Trump Tower so they probably enjoyed a lot of protests and road closures the last four years. ;-) But I think a lot of what you're paying for in a building like that is the prestige/brand/knowledge that you're keeping out the riffraff - there will be heavy security and you know that all your neighbors will be the same sort of rich asshole elite members of high society as you. Plus the service and amenities: there's a valet, a concierge, a swimming pool, a gym, a spa, a sauna, a yoga studio, a private restaurant and private performance venue - plus it comes with parking, and a parking space in that neighborhood can be worth six figures by itself.

There are a lot of people with more money than they could ever hope to spend. This is the sort of place they live. If you have a billion dollars, you hardly notice the difference between this and a normal apartment in NYC.

[MilesTeg]

I'm not really sure the people that have the income (more likely family based assets) to afford condos that cost 10s of millions really fall into the "clown" category.

[Capsu78]

A high maintenance building full of high maintenance people who likely have well developed NYC attitudes... sounds delightful!  Not that this comment is directly pertinent to this article, but I have always enjoyed the description of Monaco as "a sunny place for shady people". 

[Warlord1986]

It seems very weird to me that they bought these apartments without checking them out first. If you're going to spend so much money, wouldn't you want to make sure you're not being taken for a ride?

These people have more money than they know what to do with.

[Metalcat]

It seems very weird to me that they bought these apartments without checking them out first. If you're going to spend so much money, wouldn't you want to make sure you're not being taken for a ride?

These people have more money than they know what to do with.

Aren't most condo building units sold pre-build??

[Warlord1986]

It seems very weird to me that they bought these apartments without checking them out first. If you're going to spend so much money, wouldn't you want to make sure you're not being taken for a ride?

These people have more money than they know what to do with.

Aren't most condo building units sold pre-build??

I have no idea. I've only rented, and I live in a house at the moment. But I wouldn't spend millions of dollars without making sure what I was buying was legit.

[Metalcat]

It seems very weird to me that they bought these apartments without checking them out first. If you're going to spend so much money, wouldn't you want to make sure you're not being taken for a ride?

These people have more money than they know what to do with.

Aren't most condo building units sold pre-build??

I have no idea. I've only rented, and I live in a house at the moment. But I wouldn't spend millions of dollars without making sure what I was buying was legit.

Well, where I live, condos are always sold before they're built, and I assume this is the norm in most places. It's often the only way to buy super sought after high-rise apartments, especially the penthouses as many owners will never sell them.

[markbike528CBX]

....snip...
Aren't most condo building units sold pre-build??

I believe the builders TRY to sell pre-build, but don't always get it done.

Example story:  There was a condo being built, at the height of the real estate boom in 2007.  Some units were listed for $1-2M, in a town of 40,000, where there is a lot of land outside of town.  I was incredulous about the price.   Then my future wife noted that the condo was a) right across the busiest street in town from Burger King and other fast food places and b) right next door to a fire/ambulance station.   The market crashed, the build proceeded 4 or 5 years later, but as a hotel.

I was pissed at the developer and the city for doing such stupid stuff, but mostly for removing the biggest trees in the area (6ft, 2m diameter at least) along with some low cost housing.  Basically around here (The Everbrown section of the Evergreen state) if you don't plant and water and care for a tree, it will not grow.   A nearby mountain of 3500ft/1000m has no trees on it whatsoever. 

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Although I would never want to replicate the purchasing or lifestyle choices of the apartment residents, I find the judgmental tone of this thread rather overdone. A few people in this thread are leaping to tar all of the apartment dwellers with the same brush. And at least a few of the apartment residents must be self-made, in which case their financial nous is considerable, at least.

[uniwelder]

Although I would never want to replicate the purchasing or lifestyle choices of the apartment residents, I find the judgmental tone of this thread rather overdone. A few people in this thread are leaping to tar all of the apartment dwellers with the same brush. And at least a few of the apartment residents must be self-made, in which case their financial nous is considerable, at least.

I don’t really associate wealth (even self made) at that level with financial savvy. Actors, sports stars, entrepreneurs, etc, can pay others to think through their finances for them. This will come off a bit as 20-20 hindsight, but someone who really thought through construction practices (corruption) in NYC would hire an investigator to talk to the construction workers at the site before forking over tens of millions for an apartment sight unseen.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

To me someone who accrues that amount of wealth must have some level of financial acumen, even if he or she lacks it in the spending phase.

My point is we seem to judge these people much more harshly than we'd judge poor people living in tenements, and my practice is to judge everyone the same. Everyone thinks he or she has big problems.

[uniwelder]

To me someone who accrues that amount of wealth must have some level of financial acumen, even if he or she lacks it in the spending phase.

My point is we seem to judge these people much more harshly than we'd judge poor people living in tenements, and my practice is to judge everyone the same. Everyone thinks he or she has big problems.

I might disagree because I personally don’t know anyone that wealthy and only hear about them in the news. The people that make the headlines are the ones who end up in poverty even though they’d made millions in their career. Notably actors, singers, sports stars that have no financial acumen. When you’re that talented in your particular specialty, someone else with the financial know how seeks you out.

As for judging everyone the same, I think it’s just that rich people problems can be much more trivial than the poor. The rich also have the means to make better decisions, so when they fail, it’s more difficult to justify. The poor get judged quite harshly, and even those that try hard to dig themselves out are ostracized.

[Metalcat]

To me someone who accrues that amount of wealth must have some level of financial acumen, even if he or she lacks it in the spending phase.

My point is we seem to judge these people much more harshly than we'd judge poor people living in tenements, and my practice is to judge everyone the same. Everyone thinks he or she has big problems.

Most of the threads in this section tend to be overt schadenfreude for the sake of humour.

[Just Joe]

This just reinforces my desire to own a modestly-sized, exceptionally-well-built single family home on its own land when I retire.  No condo associations, no neighbors in the same building, high quality design and materials, low maintenance and utility costs, no hoity-toity neighborhood, etc.

But it better have a 4+ car garage...

DO IT! You know exactly what you want.

We bought a home with good bones, good patch of land (acerage), plenty of garage space too. Just need to upgrade some of the details and it won't be expensive DIY.

[The_Big_H]

If they ever do another Occupy Wall Street protest... I think I know where it'll start next time.

[Just Joe]

They'd need to armor the bottom five floors to keep the riffraff out...

[BlueHouse]

To me someone who accrues that amount of wealth must have some level of financial acumen, even if he or she lacks it in the spending phase.

This thinking is what got Donald Trump elected

My point is we seem to judge these people much more harshly than we'd judge poor people living in tenements, and my practice is to judge everyone the same. Everyone thinks he or she has big problems.

It seems as if you want to judge them less harshly because they are rich?

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Trump got elected on a populist platform that had everything to do with racism and misogyny and nothing to do with whatever you're positing.

And no, I'm not judging the denizens of this tower any 'less harshly'. What is there to judge? They're complaining about living quarters which don't meet the advertiser representations. That is a first world problem, but you see Mustachians complaining about similar-ish things all the time (products that don't work as intended, overpaying for lifestyle gear) - these complaints go up and down the spectrum.

I don't see where you're coming from, at all.

[BlueHouse]

Trump got elected on a populist platform that had everything to do with racism and misogyny and nothing to do with whatever you're positing.

A large percentage of people believed Trump was a successful businessman and voted for that.  I don't think the racism and misogyny was as obvious as you think until after he had been elected.    Just because someone is wealthy doesn't mean they are or have ever been successful in any endeavor.  Yet, many people who watched "The Apprentice" and believed the illusion thought his wealth indicated that he knew how to run a company or even the country. 

[Just Joe]

Some people just tend to believe in people don't they?

The believers believed in him. A fair percentage of that group still believe in him. Too bad there is so little substance to the guy.

Hopefully we can get more leadership that elicits the same enthusiasm AND has the ability to deliver substance to everyone in our country.

[Marley09]

Wow, well thank you OP.  This led me down the rabbit hole into NYC real estate for the past few hours.  I am shocked at some of the price tags on the real estate in NYC.  Unless you have like 10 kids, why do you need 10,000 sq ft of living space?

[Metalcat]

Wow, well thank you OP.  This led me down the rabbit hole into NYC real estate for the past few hours.  I am shocked at some of the price tags on the real estate in NYC.  Unless you have like 10 kids, why do you need 10,000 sq ft of living space?

Uhhh, most people, even MMM himself have far more house than they need because they can easily afford to.

Very few people who can afford it will only buy as much house as they absolutely need.

Asking why these people buy 10K sqft houses when they don't need them is like asking why they buy Bentleys when a Toyota Camry would do the job perfectly well.

[Retireatee1]

"73 percent of mechanical, electrical and plumbing components observed failed to conform with the developers’ drawings"

So how did that all pass the numerous inspections that would have been required?  I realize inspections don't catch everything.  But 73%?  And observable after construction was complete when inspection is more difficult??

[Linea_Norway]

I can only imagine Ms. Abramovitch’s horror at being subjected to the following:

“They put me in a freight elevator surrounded by steel plates and plywood, with a hard-hat operator,” she said. “That’s how I went up to my hoity-toity apartment before closing.”

Poor thing.

/s

If this lady had to stand in a freight elevator of an unfinished building, she should perhaps have worn a hard hat herself, as a visitor of a building site.

[uniwelder]

"73 percent of mechanical, electrical and plumbing components observed failed to conform with the developers’ drawings"

So how did that all pass the numerous inspections that would have been required?  I realize inspections don't catch everything.  But 73%?  And observable after construction was complete when inspection is more difficult??

You’re assuming the inspectors are actually scrutinizing the work performed. My dad shared all the most ridiculous stories of NYC construction work with me when I was a kid.

[mm1970]

Wow, well thank you OP.  This led me down the rabbit hole into NYC real estate for the past few hours.  I am shocked at some of the price tags on the real estate in NYC.  Unless you have like 10 kids, why do you need 10,000 sq ft of living space?

Uhhh, most people, even MMM himself have far more house than they need because they can easily afford to.

Very few people who can afford it will only buy as much house as they absolutely need.

Asking why these people buy 10K sqft houses when they don't need them is like asking why they buy Bentleys when a Toyota Camry would do the job perfectly well.

I read a comment on a thread recently (not here), by someone who insisted that 500 sf per person is really the minimum needed to live a decent life.  Anything less is substandard.

Please don't tell my kids that.

[calimom]

Wow, well thank you OP.  This led me down the rabbit hole into NYC real estate for the past few hours.  I am shocked at some of the price tags on the real estate in NYC.  Unless you have like 10 kids, why do you need 10,000 sq ft of living space?

This may or may not be the time to tell you that for most, this apartment is not the only residence for these owners. They quite possibly also have one or more of the following:

A place in the Hamptons.
A ski house in Colorado
Something warm and tropical, possible on a  Caribbean island or a swanky part of Florida
A townhouse in London
A viila in the South of France or Italy

[Marley09]

Wow, well thank you OP.  This led me down the rabbit hole into NYC real estate for the past few hours.  I am shocked at some of the price tags on the real estate in NYC.  Unless you have like 10 kids, why do you need 10,000 sq ft of living space?

This may or may not be the time to tell you that for most, this apartment is not the only residence for these owners. They quite possibly also have one or more of the following:

A place in the Hamptons.
A ski house in Colorado
Something warm and tropical, possible on a  Caribbean island or a swanky part of Florida
A townhouse in London
A viila in the South of France or Italy

Thank you, I got a little laugh out of this response.  The lady interviewed in the article noted that this would be her second home, her first being in London.  If I had that amount of money, I would be living somewhere warm and beautiful year round, definitely not NYC (no offense to the NYC crowd).  I could go on about how I feel about accumulators of this amount of wealth, but I will not, but I also have zero sympathy for them. 

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I could go on about how I feel about accumulators of this amount of wealth, but I will not, but I also have zero sympathy for them.

Why not?

[BlueHouse]

I could go on about how I feel about accumulators of this amount of wealth, but I will not, but I also have zero sympathy for them.

Why not?

Curious:  do you want to know why BB won't go on about their feelings?  Or why they have no sympathy for accumulators of wealth?

[Sid Hoffman]

If they ever do another Occupy Wall Street protest... I think I know where it'll start next time.

There's nothing truly unique about this building though. The whole of Manhattan Island is like this. My company is headquartered in NYC and honestly every single one of our executives has that better-than-you-peons attitude in every townhall and meeting they hold for the company. They literally brag about how much better they are at running the company than the old management before the company moved the HQ to NYC. Like one specifically said they're just so much more business oriented in NYC and don't waste time trying to be nice to people, and he's announcing this to the whole company as one of the big benefits of NYC management. It's an evil city driven by nothing but money. Until they outlaw capitalism though, it's simply always going to be that way. The ultra-rich will always have cities to go to, even if NYC gets shut down some day.

[Dollar Slice]

The whole of Manhattan Island is like this.

Is it safe to assume you've never been here?

[the_gastropod]

If they ever do another Occupy Wall Street protest... I think I know where it'll start next time.

There's nothing truly unique about this building though. The whole of Manhattan Island is like this. My company is headquartered in NYC and honestly every single one of our executives has that better-than-you-peons attitude in every townhall and meeting they hold for the company. They literally brag about how much better they are at running the company than the old management before the company moved the HQ to NYC. Like one specifically said they're just so much more business oriented in NYC and don't waste time trying to be nice to people, and he's announcing this to the whole company as one of the big benefits of NYC management. It's an evil city driven by nothing but money. Until they outlaw capitalism though, it's simply always going to be that way. The ultra-rich will always have cities to go to, even if NYC gets shut down some day.

Sorry you've had some crappy experiences with New Yorkers. Maybe pump the brakes on painting a city of 8M+ with that brush, though. There are both jerks and lovely people everywhere.

[Icecreamarsenal]

Born and raised in Manhattan for decades before I left, the departure afforded some parallax.  A lot of that borough is like an outdoor mall now, Seinfeld and his op-ed notwithstanding (that he wrote from Montauk. Where he still resides as he waits out this pesky virus thing.)
Good to meet ex-manhattanites out in the real world, the myopia is a bit much.  The ra-ra pro-nyc thing is aesthetically gauche; we get it, District 1 is the bestest district.
Except for like tianjin or vancouver or barcelona or seoul or shenzen or...

But yeah anyway a quick perusal show that most billies reside in NYC, HK second.  They own on average (median?) 9 homes internationally, 19 cars.  Yeah so they're bound to buy dumb shit like this, why not.  There's a greater fool/billionaire on the other end of that trade eventually.

[Marley09]

I could go on about how I feel about accumulators of this amount of wealth, but I will not, but I also have zero sympathy for them.

Why not?

Curious:  do you want to know why BB won't go on about their feelings?  Or why they have no sympathy for accumulators of wealth?

I will assume they are questioning why I have zero sympathy?  I will explain that...When someone is ultra rich and has millions of dollars of water damage to their property, its not a big deal. They can move to one of their other homes (with their butler, maids, nannies and servants) while the renovations, which cost less than .01% of their net worth, are completed. The average person who has significant water damage to their house, not including the mental impact, would be homeless or in severe debt.  Yes, there is insurance, but most water damage is not covered at 100% replacement cost, if at all, and would significantly impact an average persons life.  This is one little example of why I have no sympathy.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Fairness doesn't depend on whether the aggrieved party can easily wear the loss.

If I steal an apple from a multinational corporation it's still stealing.

[Metalcat]

Fairness doesn't depend on whether the aggrieved party can easily wear the loss.

If I steal an apple from a multinational corporation it's still stealing.

You're assuming that feeling bad for someone is predicated on fairness and not the degree of impact on that person, or even moreso, how well the sympathizer relates to that person.

It's not unusual that people with wealth who like to spend on certain luxuries will be more sympathetic to other people with wealth who like to spend.

It's also not unusual that people who have never been wealthy will be more sympathetic to those who have never been wealthy.

Basic human nature, you can't possibly be surprised by this.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

Not surprised at all - just disappointed.