Author Topic: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch  (Read 6998 times)

BPA

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Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« on: December 01, 2017, 05:13:51 AM »
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/retirement/retire-lifestyle/in-their-own-words-im-scared-to-death-of-the-cost-of-living-as-a-senior/article37153944/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=Referrer%3A+Social+Network+%2F+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

Now, I understand that some people have a legitimate worry, but some of these people are just clued out and absolutely ridiculous.

"University costs for our children have impacted our retirement," says a woman from Toronto, aged 56. "Our children ... can not afford to rent or purchase homes and are with us again."  What?  You paid for their university AND you are letting them live with you rent free?  WTF is your problem?  Quit babying them. 

This 55-year-old woman from Newmarket writes: "I'm fearful that one of my children may come to me for financial help in the future. They are both educated and have good jobs but ... there is no way I could co-sign on a $300,000-plus mortgage." What?!?!?  Let them be grown ups.

"No pension is putting huge pressure on me as I have a large annual income to replace," says a Calgary man, 60. WTF, Dude!!!???!!! You've made a large annual income and instead of saving it, you've been spending it and you are whining that it will hard to replace?  Wah!  Wah!!!!

I do really appreciate this guy though:

A 68-year-old man from Grimsby, Ont. says his biggest success has been managing his own retirement investments.

"I have exceeded my financial targets...by going independent (with training) and managing our own portfolios. The reward was 24 per cent returns last year. This year won't be as good, but it will be damn better than what the bank can offer (or I should say take from me)."


Anyway, it's been a while since I posted, but instead of screaming at my laptop or worse, posting on FB so that people can argue that I'm unfeeling, I knew the perfect place for my venting.  Thanks, MMM community!!!

NinetyFour

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 05:27:38 AM »
Good to see you back here, BPA!!

kaypinkHH

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 06:54:49 AM »
It is definitely the millennials fault.

:P.

It is interesting talking about ERE/FIRE with my boomer parents and in-laws..who all "retired early" in comparison to age 65. They don't believe that it could possibly be a thing.  3/4 of them also had defined pensions, so don't understand how we "don't have a pension".

It is interesting the generational differences.


BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 06:56:03 AM »
Good to see you back here, BPA!!

Hey,  good to see you too, 94!  I hope all is well.  I should probably do an update on my journal and read the other ones I used to follow.  Right now I'm busy fixing my house up for sale, but once that's done, I'll have more time.


BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2017, 07:01:36 AM »
It is definitely the millennials fault.

:P.

It is interesting talking about ERE/FIRE with my boomer parents and in-laws..who all "retired early" in comparison to age 65. They don't believe that it could possibly be a thing.  3/4 of them also had defined pensions, so don't understand how we "don't have a pension".

It is interesting the generational differences.

Yeah.  I feel bad for millennials but I do love reading stories about how they don't want to inherit all of their parents' collectible crap and are less consumer-oriented overall. 

My mom is a Boomer and a frugal one, so I never want to facepunch her.  lol  She lives very well below the low-income cutoff even though she rents an apartment because unlike the dude who has to replace his high income in retirement, she learned to live well on much less. 

I guess I should have used the subject line: "Here are some Boomers I want to facepunch." 

Kashmani

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2017, 07:44:47 AM »
So much judgment here about boomers wanting to help their kids out financially.

My aunt and her husband bought their daughter and the daughter's husband a condo when they got married, allowing them to have their two kids without any debt.

My dad left all his assets to his wife, who promptly transferred almost everything to her daughter when he died. Not unexpected - I saw that situation coming for 17 years.

I always wondered which of these boomer parents had the high ground and was jealous of my aunt's daughter. On the other hand, I probably never would have worked 70-hour work weeks for a decade to pay off a mortgage before 40 had I not expected in advance that my own parent would f*** me over.

Wouldn't the ideal situation be that each generation buys the next one a home so that there is no debt? Or is the consensus here that this would just make the kids lazy?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 08:11:17 AM »
Wouldn't the ideal situation be that each generation buys the next one a home so that there is no debt? Or is the consensus here that this would just make the kids lazy?

It's been working out fine for the Acoma for centuries, and I think one of the reasons why is because the kids who receive a home debt-free have responsibilities in exchange. The deal is, each family owns at least two residential properties, one up in the Sky City and the other below the mesa. No mortgage. The youngest daughter, if there is one (they've got a system for picking out a substitute if a person doesn't have kids) has the responsibility for elder care. In exchange, she gets one of the family houses when the parents pass away.

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 09:04:37 AM »
So much judgment here about boomers wanting to help their kids out financially.


Wah! 

Where on the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy isn't judgmental? <eyeroll>  That is rather the point. If you don't want to read judgment, don't read this particular part of the forum.

Also, to find the answer to your final question, read MMM's blog.  Doing too much for is a bad thing. 

Hmmm.  I thought that the community was getting soft after the WaPo article a few years ago.  As I was posting I was wondering if someone would get all upset about the judgment.  Wah!

And...for the record...I have an adult son with special needs.  I have said to him that he will always have a home with me but that I will not give him money if he can't afford his life.  In the Millionnaire Next Door this is referred to as providing economic outpatient care.  And it's a bad idea. 

So, I've bought a duplex in a lower cost of living area.  My son can work at his current employer and pay me rent for his portion of the house.  It will be at a reduced cost, but I will not co-sign a mortgage for him like the idjit I mentioned above. (And yes I am judging her.) I will not let him live with me for free after paying for his education, like the other whiner mentioned above. (Judgment again. Sue me.) Mooching is not okay and does not teach responsibility. 

I am hardly hard-hearted, but I taught high school for twenty years.  I saw what happens when you coddle your kids. 

I am a Gen Xer with millennial kids. 

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 09:38:43 AM »
Here is one blog post which speaks to helping out kids too much.
 
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/03/28/the-incomparable-advantage-of-having-to-work-for-what-you-get/

Itís all noble and generous-sounding on the surface. As a parent, you want to give your kids all the advantages you didnít have when growing up yourself. You earn much more than your parents did at this age, and so it is appropriate for a person of your economic standing to splash it out onto your offspring. Isnít it?

The only thing is, in most cases youíre creating a double whammy of wrongness. Wrong because youíre spending more money than necessary, which means incurring more debt, working longer, and having less time to live your own life. And more importantly, you are probably programming your kids to expect handouts, and displacing their own healthy learning, effort, and growth with the leather-upholstered La-Z-Boy of your easy flowing cash.

kaypinkHH

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 09:48:30 AM »
I'm a older(ish)  millennial whose youngish boomer parents stocked away money in an RESP for me to use for school. They never told me how much this was, and I was expected to get a job throughout highschool. I also maintained fantastic grades and participated in 18 million extra curricular to get ALL THE SCHOLARSHIPS. Looking back, my parents had more than enough money to cover my full education, but "saving money for school" was always placed as partially/mostly my responsibility.

After 2 years of scholarship money, I started working paid co-op terms that covered the rest of my university.  Other than a small portion of RESP money in 2nd year, I didn't actually use the rest of the RESP and my parents transferred it to my brother.  One of my coop terms I lived at home for free with my parents. After university I graduated +20k in the bank, no debt, and landed a good job. I moved to a new city and never asked my parents to lend me any money...and was paying my own cell phone bill the whole time. (This seems to be a common thing parents help their kids out with into their late 20s!)

Once in a while, (ie when my brand new car- insert face punch here) was in a minor fender bender, $500 showed up in my account from my parents. I never asked for it, I never expected it and could have paid it myself.

Later, I did receive an inheritance when my grandfather passed (it was left to my parents, but they split it up because they had "no use for the money"), which as timed with when then SO and I were buying a house..we used it for half the down payment, but the rest was on us, including all the closing fees, and qualifying for a mortgage. Important to note if we hadn't have received that money, we would have just waited a year to buy a house! We saved our half by living on one income, and working part time jobs. (Oh btw, this is all in Toronto, a city where you definitely can't afford a house under the age of 30 :P)

The next year my mom and dad graciously paid for our wedding because a great uncle had paid for their wedding and they were passing it along. Again, if they had not paid we would have never expected them to do so and had been saving diligently for the wedding. We also tried to keep it relatively frugal for a 100 person event. Our fancy car was our own 2009 honda fit. Sooo glamorous (want to know how we had a house and saved enough for a wedding...we have a 2009 honda fit.)

Parents still retired at 55 with 0 mortgage, a small summer cottage, and money for their retirement to travel/the lifestyle the want. And now we get to treat them to dinner, because they are "on a pension". 

Moral of the story is, I received money from my parents, but I know they were financially in a place to "help me" and I would have never expected their help. I still feel guilty in a way about the house down payment, because that house gave me and Mr.HH a significant ROI, and I want to do something to pay back my parents, but they would never accept it.

(Aside- the one time I asked to borrow money from my parents was when we were privately selling our first car that we had stupidly bought new and had an underwater loan, I had a bunch of money in TFSAs and RRSPs but was missing ~1000 in cash...I asked to borrow it for 1 week (we didn't have a LOC at the time, and I didn't want the cash withdrawal on a credit card interest fees), and my parents said "no you are adult, figure it out..but if you need money for groceries let us know"....but yet paid off our wedding when I didn't ask for that. I have never asked for money again :P) 

As a millennial it bothers me to see my peers expecting/needing their parents financial support. Fair enough if boomers can afford to give back to their kids, great, but deferring their own retirement to help their 30 year old pay rent seems a bit extreme.

I hope I can convince my future children that we have no money..and make them think they have to work for their post education...it served me well :D.


BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 10:15:43 AM »
Kay:  It sounds like your family struck a good balance.  They could help, but you never expected it, so were able to avoid some of the typical potential pitfalls that might have been the case otherwise.

My problem certainly isn't with families like yours (and hey, I could get more money renting that apartment in my new house to someone other than my son), but with some of the people interviewed in the article I posted.

I know I would have worried a lot less about my kids had they not had disabilities which made their future education and job prospects concerning. College was a wash for both of them. So, a while back I accepted that the best plan might be to live in properties I owned in lower cost of living areas.  Even if they work at minimum wage jobs, they will be okay financially.

kaypinkHH

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 10:20:48 AM »
Yes, and I'm sure you managed your own costs to be able to support them...which was your choice :) (and an amazing one).

I think what the article alludes to is that boomers (and their kids) have just accepted that major financial support is mandatory for their adult children...and that is sad to see.

PoutineLover

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 10:46:47 AM »
I think what I dislike about those people is this mentality of "poor me, my life is so hard because I *have* to do this thing [insert totally optional decision]."
I expect no help from my (edge of boomer) parents and I am perfectly capable of attaining my own goals. They chose to save up for me and have gifted me money for my education and I appreciated it very much, but I also would have been able to manage with bursaries, part time work and loans, which I used anyway. I don't expect them to pay for my trips to visit them, but they usually send me some money to help anyway. I would not want them to compromise their own finances to do that, but if they can afford it and want to, I will gladly accept.
Don't gift what you can't afford and then complain about it after. Nobody forced these people to coddle their own children, they probably did them more harm than good, and now they are complaining about their poor decisions? Boo fucking hoo

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 01:53:08 PM »
Don't gift what you can't afford and then complain about it after. Nobody forced these people to coddle their own children, they probably did them more harm than good, and now they are complaining about their poor decisions? Boo fucking hoo

lol Exactly.


RetiredAt63

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 02:39:24 PM »
Boomer Mom here.  My family allowance went into a mutual fund for DD's education but was not enough to cover everything, she worked part-time and summers and had a moderate student loan.  She and her SO saved up for their down-payment for a house outside Toronto (they are not yet 30), and DD, SO, and both sets of parents are all chipping in for the wedding costs.  I was clear with her that my financial responsibilities ended when her education was done.  Of course I sometimes give her expensive gifts when I see a need, but it is on me to choose to do so, not on her to ask, she doesn't ask.  I have pointed out to her that yes, I am financially OK, which means she won't be on the hook for expensive care when I am old and decrepit as long as I don't spend it all on her now.  ;-)

Shinplaster

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2017, 03:56:04 PM »
Boomer Mom here.  My family allowance went into a mutual fund for DD's education but was not enough to cover everything, she worked part-time and summers and had a moderate student loan.  She and her SO saved up for their down-payment for a house outside Toronto (they are not yet 30), and DD, SO, and both sets of parents are all chipping in for the wedding costs.  I was clear with her that my financial responsibilities ended when her education was done.  Of course I sometimes give her expensive gifts when I see a need, but it is on me to choose to do so, not on her to ask, she doesn't ask.  I have pointed out to her that yes, I am financially OK, which means she won't be on the hook for expensive care when I am old and decrepit as long as I don't spend it all on her now.  ;-)

Another boomer here.  Pretty much exactly what we did with our son.  He has not bought a house yet - lives in Toronto, but rents for now.  He knows we will not be giving him the downpayment for any future house unless we have died and he inherits what's left.

I do think the Globe has a talent for finding idiot people of all ages to highlight in their business section.  Sometimes the advisers (advisors?)* are also idiots.

* in Canada, the spelling of the word makes a huge difference as to duties/obligations. 

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2017, 05:20:33 PM »
I do think the Globe has a talent for finding idiot people of all ages to highlight in their business section.  Sometimes the advisers (advisors?)* are also idiots.

* in Canada, the spelling of the word makes a huge difference as to duties/obligations.

lol Yes.  Pretty much three times a week we could post some idiot thing from The Globe and Mail.

And hooray for reasonable Boomer parents, Shinplaster and Retiredat63 (and no doubt others to come)!!!!! 

Technically my ex is a Boomer parent.  He doesn't coddle either.  (Actually he's barely a Boomer and only if you count the Baby Boom to 1965. He was born on Christmas Day, so one week later and he would have been Gen X.)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 06:57:42 AM »

And hooray for reasonable Boomer parents, Shinplaster and Retiredat63 (and no doubt others to come)!!!!! 


We boomers need to team up with the Millennials - we both get bashed a lot by others for stupid stereotypes based solely on age.

Dee

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 07:59:08 AM »
Good to see you back on the forums, BPA!

That was quite an unhelpful article. It's just a mishmash of seemingly random quotes. I get that some of them seem facepunch-worthy, BPA, but I thik the Globe & Mail is the one deserving the facepunch, not the people whose 1-liners are quoted. They surely all have more fulsome stories, some of them facepuchworthy, some of them not. And probably an imperfect correlation between the ones that seem facepunch worthy based on the one-liners.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 10:01:28 AM »
Good to see you back on the forums, BPA!

That was quite an unhelpful article. It's just a mishmash of seemingly random quotes. I get that some of them seem facepunch-worthy, BPA, but I thik the Globe & Mail is the one deserving the facepunch, not the people whose 1-liners are quoted. They surely all have more fulsome stories, some of them facepuchworthy, some of them not. And probably an imperfect correlation between the ones that seem facepunch worthy based on the one-liners.
I agree.  From what I understand Canadian house prices are nuts so I can see boomer parents feeling sad that their kids are locked out of the housing market and wanting to help them and not being able to.  But it sounds like a lot of these quotes were taken out of context.

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 11:46:07 AM »
It doesn't seem to me at all that these quotes are taken out of context.  The theme of all of them (except for one) is "I can't retire at 65 because...[excuse]."  Even standing alone out of context, those statements are about choices they've made. And THAT is worthy of a facepunch.

Sorry to tread on Boomers' feelings.  It's just that the article was very specifically about Boomers and many of those Boomers are being ridiculous.  And I did not entitle the thread "I Want to Facepunch Canadian Boomers."  Perhaps I could have worded it "These Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch."  I did clarify in the following posts that I certainly do not mean all Boomers. Had the article been about Gen Xers, my response would have been the same.

Anyway, maybe it's good thing that I've stayed away.

Clearly, there was a time here where there would have been no issue with facepunching people (particularly on this part of the message board) who say that retirement at 65 can't be done. 

It's about choices.  You don't need to buy a house in a high cost of living area.  You certainly do not have to buy your children a house in a high cost of living area. 

But oh well. I'll just go about my merry way having retired at 47 fully 18 years before 65.  MMM retired 35 years before 65.   It amazes me how far from the message in the blog the forum has strayed.

NinetyFour

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2017, 11:56:18 AM »
I haven't read every response here closely, but it seems like many people are agreeing with you, BPA, at least to some extent.

This thread might interest you:  https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/weird-fourm-coversations-has-the-community-gone-soft/

I didn't comment in that thread, but I have definitely noticed lots of recent places (posts, threads) where Pete would have delivered facepunches for complainypants/spendypants behavior...

Stachey

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 12:05:24 PM »
MANY boomers and even older generations need a serious face punch.

I know people who had high paying secure jobs that lasted for decades with no downturns in their industry who retired with gold-plated pensions (when has any of that happened since the '80s?) and these people still bitch and complain about how they have no money and how difficult their life is. 
They have lived the most privileged lives in the history of mankind and they still complain!
Some people just have no clue when they have it good.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2017, 04:45:25 PM »
MANY boomers and even older generations need a serious face punch.

I know people who had high paying secure jobs that lasted for decades with no downturns in their industry who retired with gold-plated pensions (when has any of that happened since the '80s?) and these people still bitch and complain about how they have no money and how difficult their life is. 
They have lived the most privileged lives in the history of mankind and they still complain!
Some people just have no clue when they have it good.

Sure but this applies to so many age groups - look at all the people in their 40's and 50's who can't even think of retiring. Why?  Because they are spending it all now and make the same complaints.  I have to admit my mind boggles at some of the salaries tossed around here (and in US $ to boot! and super low tax rates by Canadian standards!).  I want to face punch them all, irregardless of age.

And the really old ones did have it tough - as in the Depression and then the war.

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2017, 09:07:51 PM »
Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
Bitching up a storm 'cause they can't pay rent
Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
... Because they've overspent.



Now you have an ear worm and will have that Australian Christmas carol stuck in your head until you play it through in its entirety.


You're welcome.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2017, 10:35:05 PM »
I am critical of Millennials sometimes for being immature and seeming to lack motivation and common sense, but there was a time when I fit that bill too. The reason that happens to some young people is because they lack guidance. A lot of Boomers don't understand how the world has changed, so they pass along obsolete information to their children like "Do what you love and the money will follow" ("Ok, I'm going to be a professional video game player!") or "investing is the same thing as gambling." At the same time, there are entire sectors of the economy that depend on people not knowing how to handle money or make good financial decisions, so a lot of propaganda (aka advertising) purposefully lies to young people about how to be successful. The kids are literally being brainwashed.

It's hard to really blame young people for making poor choices, when they are trained to lose from the very beginning of their lives.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2017, 10:24:51 AM »
Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
Bitching up a storm 'cause they can't pay rent
Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
... Because they've overspent.



Now you have an ear worm and will have that Australian Christmas carol stuck in your head until you play it through in its entirety.


You're welcome.

OK, now  you need to direct us to the original carol so we can paraphrase.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2017, 10:38:03 AM »
I am critical of Millennials sometimes for being immature and seeming to lack motivation and common sense, but there was a time when I fit that bill too. The reason that happens to some young people is because they lack guidance. A lot of Boomers don't understand how the world has changed, so they pass along obsolete information to their children like "Do what you love and the money will follow" ("Ok, I'm going to be a professional video game player!") or "investing is the same thing as gambling." At the same time, there are entire sectors of the economy that depend on people not knowing how to handle money or make good financial decisions, so a lot of propaganda (aka advertising) purposefully lies to young people about how to be successful. The kids are literally being brainwashed.

It's hard to really blame young people for making poor choices, when they are trained to lose from the very beginning of their lives.

This is definitely true - but always was.  My parents grew up in the 20's and 30's, so their financial world was incredibly different from mine.  A big change is that change seems to be faster now, so it is harder to keep up (computers have a lot to do with this, the social changes are enormous).    The other big change is the shift in attitude towards debt.  Credit cards and all the other sources of easy credit are relatively new, and our social norms haven't really caught up with how to handle this.  Keeping up with the Jones used to "work" because the Jones paid cash for what you saw.  Now we (on the forums) look at the Jones and wonder how much their CC bills are each month, but most people are still trying to "keep up" without thinking of the hidden debt.

Also, our brains don't seem to handle going back more than a generation or 2 very well, and hindsight is not 20-20.  The late 40's and 50's had lots of jobs, but the 70's not so much.  A lot of us went to grad school hoping the job market would have picked up by the time we graduated.  People in 2017 seem to only see the good times when they look back, and not notice the times of high unemployment and high interest rates (yes, I lived through the time of 19% mortgage rates).  The things about us boomers is that it is easy for it all to blur together (which year had the worst unemployment?  Which year was the year my friend got nailed for that 19% mortgage?) which makes it harder to give good advice.  Especially since our crystal balls just keep clouding over and being not helpful.

BTW, my parents never ever said do what you love and the money will follow.  They said "find something you like to do that you do well that people will pay you to do".  Of course they were not boomers.  I do admit my generation (well the ones just slightly older than me) did invent "never trust anyone over 30" which was a bit awkward once they hit 30.     ;-)

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2017, 07:43:11 PM »
I am critical of Millennials sometimes for being immature and seeming to lack motivation and common sense, but there was a time when I fit that bill too. The reason that happens to some young people is because they lack guidance. A lot of Boomers don't understand how the world has changed, so they pass along obsolete information to their children like "Do what you love and the money will follow" ("Ok, I'm going to be a professional video game player!") or "investing is the same thing as gambling." At the same time, there are entire sectors of the economy that depend on people not knowing how to handle money or make good financial decisions, so a lot of propaganda (aka advertising) purposefully lies to young people about how to be successful. The kids are literally being brainwashed.

It's hard to really blame young people for making poor choices, when they are trained to lose from the very beginning of their lives.

This is definitely true - but always was.  My parents grew up in the 20's and 30's, so their financial world was incredibly different from mine.  A big change is that change seems to be faster now, so it is harder to keep up (computers have a lot to do with this, the social changes are enormous).    The other big change is the shift in attitude towards debt.  Credit cards and all the other sources of easy credit are relatively new, and our social norms haven't really caught up with how to handle this.  Keeping up with the Jones used to "work" because the Jones paid cash for what you saw.  Now we (on the forums) look at the Jones and wonder how much their CC bills are each month, but most people are still trying to "keep up" without thinking of the hidden debt.

Also, our brains don't seem to handle going back more than a generation or 2 very well, and hindsight is not 20-20.  The late 40's and 50's had lots of jobs, but the 70's not so much.  A lot of us went to grad school hoping the job market would have picked up by the time we graduated.  People in 2017 seem to only see the good times when they look back, and not notice the times of high unemployment and high interest rates (yes, I lived through the time of 19% mortgage rates).  The things about us boomers is that it is easy for it all to blur together (which year had the worst unemployment?  Which year was the year my friend got nailed for that 19% mortgage?) which makes it harder to give good advice.  Especially since our crystal balls just keep clouding over and being not helpful.

BTW, my parents never ever said do what you love and the money will follow.  They said "find something you like to do that you do well that people will pay you to do".  Of course they were not boomers.  I do admit my generation (well the ones just slightly older than me) did invent "never trust anyone over 30" which was a bit awkward once they hit 30.     ;-)

My father, a Boomer, said: "if you're among the best in the world at something people will pay to have done and will pay more to have done well, you'll never be without work unless you want to be." I find this different from the "do what you love and the money will follow" mentality because it acknowledges that the excellence has to be in something other people value enough to be willing to pay to have done. I could be among the best in the world at composing filthy limericks or sarcastic haiku, but unless someone pays for the results it's not going to feed me. Also, being the best burger flipper in the world doesn't pay much more than being the burger-flipper who barely gets the job done at all. So there's not a big financial reward for putting forth the time and effort to become excellent at it.

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2017, 07:48:59 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSsffF2xhA


Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
Bitching up a storm 'cause they can't pay rent
Six white Boomers,
Slow, white Boomers
... Because they've overspent.



Now you have an ear worm and will have that Australian Christmas carol stuck in your head until you play it through in its entirety.


You're welcome.

OK, now  you need to direct us to the original carol so we can paraphrase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlSsffF2xhA

I think it was written by a man named Rolf Harris who unfortunately turned out to be a total pedophile.

Stachey

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 08:30:10 PM »
Oh not an earworm.  Noooooo!
I just got Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer out of my head.

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2017, 03:06:19 PM »
Awesome to have you post BPA!

I am starting up a financial coaching  / planning side business, for people with money, that want to learn to manage their financial future themselves.  (like the 68 year old)...   but... I would love your suggestion on what niche / marketing would draw these people.   (It is conceived as a fee for service only, zero sales and zero percentage fees)...

So far I have :

"Who is in control of your financial future?"   
Fee-only financial planning and decision support for professionals.

I would love your thoughts.

Goldielocks

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2017, 04:29:07 PM »
Good to see you back on the forums, BPA!

That was quite an unhelpful article. It's just a mishmash of seemingly random quotes. I get that some of them seem facepunch-worthy, BPA, but I thik the Globe & Mail is the one deserving the facepunch, not the people whose 1-liners are quoted. They surely all have more fulsome stories, some of them facepuchworthy, some of them not. And probably an imperfect correlation between the ones that seem facepunch worthy based on the one-liners.
I agree.  From what I understand Canadian house prices are nuts so I can see boomer parents feeling sad that their kids are locked out of the housing market and wanting to help them and not being able to.  But it sounds like a lot of these quotes were taken out of context.

Conversely, some of them may feel desperate to get them (adult kids) out of their home and into their own space, so that they can downsize and limit their expenses moving forward.   

There are three ways to do that:
1) Kick out your 26 year old and tell them they are on their own.  If they are only making $25k per year, this can be challenging in some regions for some adult kids to afford..resulting in.:.
2)  Pay for partial rent so they move out
3)  Give down payment or other financial support towards ownership

daverobev

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2017, 08:24:19 PM »
Quote
Meanwhile, a 52-year-old Mississauga man says "low rates of returns on investments are delaying my retirement."

Um.

WTF are you invested in?

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2017, 08:26:33 PM »
Good to see you back on the forums, BPA!

That was quite an unhelpful article. It's just a mishmash of seemingly random quotes. I get that some of them seem facepunch-worthy, BPA, but I thik the Globe & Mail is the one deserving the facepunch, not the people whose 1-liners are quoted. They surely all have more fulsome stories, some of them facepuchworthy, some of them not. And probably an imperfect correlation between the ones that seem facepunch worthy based on the one-liners.
I agree.  From what I understand Canadian house prices are nuts so I can see boomer parents feeling sad that their kids are locked out of the housing market and wanting to help them and not being able to.  But it sounds like a lot of these quotes were taken out of context.

Prices in Toronto and nearby; prices in Vancouver and nearby.

The rest of the country is not expensive at all, really.

It's like saying London, or New York is expensive. Yeah. So... move, or rent, or find something you can afford.

Houses in Toronto are expensive because people keep paying too much for them, getting into bidding wars, etc.

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2017, 11:50:49 AM »
The rest of the country is not expensive at all, really.

I have to admit that deep down, I still think that houses should cost $100,000. I remember my dad buying a five-bedroom, three-bathroom house in North Dakota for $115,000 in 1996. He sold in 2000 for $110,000.

Back then, my mental formula was that a Rolls Royce costs three nice houses. Now, a Rolls Royce costs 0.85 regular houses, even on the Canadian prairies. And it ain't a matter of Rolls Royces being sold a discount!

While I am mortgage-free with a nice condo on the prairies now (which cost 0.85 Rolls Royces), I still fantasize about that house. I honestly don't think a low cost of living exists anymore, at least anywhere near something resembling a functioning economy with jobs.

daverobev

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2017, 08:28:43 PM »
The rest of the country is not expensive at all, really.

I have to admit that deep down, I still think that houses should cost $100,000. I remember my dad buying a five-bedroom, three-bathroom house in North Dakota for $115,000 in 1996. He sold in 2000 for $110,000.

Back then, my mental formula was that a Rolls Royce costs three nice houses. Now, a Rolls Royce costs 0.85 regular houses, even on the Canadian prairies. And it ain't a matter of Rolls Royces being sold a discount!

While I am mortgage-free with a nice condo on the prairies now (which cost 0.85 Rolls Royces), I still fantasize about that house. I honestly don't think a low cost of living exists anymore, at least anywhere near something resembling a functioning economy with jobs.

Montreal is pretty cheap.

Ottawa is pretty cheap *if* you have one of the decent jobs in the city. Min wage not so much.

If you can build a life where you work from home/freelance or whatever over the internet... well, if not for my wife I'd probably move to the most southern bit of Ontario. South of Windsor, say. Or even Windsor itself.

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2017, 06:49:57 PM »
It doesn't seem to me at all that these quotes are taken out of context.  The theme of all of them (except for one) is "I can't retire at 65 because...[excuse]."  Even standing alone out of context, those statements are about choices they've made. And THAT is worthy of a facepunch.

Sorry to tread on Boomers' feelings.  It's just that the article was very specifically about Boomers and many of those Boomers are being ridiculous.  And I did not entitle the thread "I Want to Facepunch Canadian Boomers."  Perhaps I could have worded it "These Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch."  I did clarify in the following posts that I certainly do not mean all Boomers. Had the article been about Gen Xers, my response would have been the same.

Anyway, maybe it's good thing that I've stayed away.

Clearly, there was a time here where there would have been no issue with facepunching people (particularly on this part of the message board) who say that retirement at 65 can't be done. 

It's about choices.  You don't need to buy a house in a high cost of living area.  You certainly do not have to buy your children a house in a high cost of living area. 

But oh well. I'll just go about my merry way having retired at 47 fully 18 years before 65.  MMM retired 35 years before 65.   It amazes me how far from the message in the blog the forum has strayed.

Completely agree, and welcome back on the forum.  ;)

ms

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2017, 08:26:48 AM »
Toronto house prices: A 3 bedroom bungalow house built in the 1950s just sold for $1,170,000 in the area we are looking to move to. Two years ago it had sold for $900,000 and in 2010 that same bungalow had sold for $550,000.

It's a great time to get into the housing market in Toronto. /sarcasm

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2017, 12:33:28 PM »
Toronto house prices: A 3 bedroom bungalow house built in the 1950s just sold for $1,170,000 in the area we are looking to move to. Two years ago it had sold for $900,000 and in 2010 that same bungalow had sold for $550,000.

It's a great time to get into the housing market in Toronto. /sarcasm

I talked with a young woman (25) at a christmas party.  She is a RN and looking to go back for her Masters.  Great, right? 
Yet her Boomer uncle has been telling her how she needs to buy a condo in Vancouver to get into the market.  OMG, if she did that, she can't afford to get her Master's or meet any of her short term goals.

She asked me what I thought.  I was very clear -- "This is not the market to buy when you can rent.  Only buy if you can not find any place to rent.   Rental prices are so low compared to cost to purchase."   She then mentioned that a two bedroom condo she went to see was $800k!   Even the more typical $650k (plus HOA and tax) condo is too much when rents are $2k/mo.

ms

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2017, 01:17:50 PM »
We are currently renting right downtown. A 2 bedroom 800 sq ft for $2500/month. We gave our landlord notice and he's got it on the market at $2800/month but no one has rented it yet and we're gone as of Friday.

Several similar units in the building that are just tiny bit bigger as they are 2 bed + den are asking $799,000. Plus maintenance fees of $615 a month.

So for Toronto, it's better to rent than buy at this time.

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2017, 09:18:04 AM »
Awesome to have you post BPA!

I am starting up a financial coaching  / planning side business, for people with money, that want to learn to manage their financial future themselves.  (like the 68 year old)...   but... I would love your suggestion on what niche / marketing would draw these people.   (It is conceived as a fee for service only, zero sales and zero percentage fees)...

So far I have :

"Who is in control of your financial future?"   
Fee-only financial planning and decision support for professionals.

I would love your thoughts.

This sounds so cool.  Nice to see you, Goldie!

Certainly there are things beyond people's control.  And the gap between the rich and the poor is widening at an alarming rate.  But we still have choices.  And for many of we mustachians, there is a sense of seeing an opportunity and taking it.  I would hope that most people wouldn't screw over others in an attempt to gain an advantage.  I've been as careful as possible in this regard.

MMM has taught other people to see opportunities that they may not have recognized before (although I was well on my way to FIRE before the blog).  So, getting people to optimize their lives even when it flies in the face of convention is important. And that is going to be highly individual in many respects.

My own opportunism involved my pension.  I had to teach myself the basics of investing and had to find something that suited my values in life.  But when I realized how much my pension was worth in a low interest rate environment, I was intrigued.  Then I found the best tax-advantaged way to maximize what I got to keep.  I had been working part-time and had an excellent defensive game (yay for frugality!), but needed to learn about investing.  I also needed to get past the mindset that I HAD to take a pension.  MMM had a post about this once although it wasn't exactly my situation. 

So, yes!  People can take steps to improve their financial futures.  It requires being frugal in most cases, seeing opportunities, avoiding excuse-making, and having the courage to perhaps be less conventional. 

I've had several friends ask me for advice, but only my boyfriend seems to be the one who is willing to make any changes.  It's scary to make changes sometimes.  But our lives are so much better for it. 

It is ridiculous how cheaply we can live with the right mindset.  I'm glad that I recognized that leaving Toronto was the best thing to do financially when I finished my teacher training.  I had the best shot at jobs in Toronto since the school boards there seemed to favour graduates from York University and the University of Toronto, but moving back to Hamilton made more sense financially.  Teachers pretty much make the same amount of money in Ontario regardless of where they teach.  Why would I want to live in a higher cost of living area if I didn't have to? 

Even then when I finally did buy a house, I didn't spend all the money the bank told me I could afford.  A former student was trying to get into Primeamerica and he and his adviser stopped by my place to hit me with the spiel.  He started off by saying, "I can't believe you bought such a modest house.  Most teachers buy really big houses."  Then he marveled that I didn't have a car.  In the end, he told me that I was in great shape and that I didn't need their services.  Seriously.  The guy from Primeamerica didn't actually try to sell me anything.  A couple of years later, the former student who was with him had abandoned Primeamerica and laughed with me that that was the only time he'd seen that guy not push their investments on anyone.

But it's really hard if you don't have the right mindset.  I have a great life.  I really do.  But if someone thinks they or their children MUST have an expensive home in a high cost of living area or couldn't possibly live without a car, or live without X, Y, or Z, there isn't much you can do.

Except maybe sit back slightly smugly and just enjoy your own life.  lol

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2017, 09:19:15 AM »
Quote
Meanwhile, a 52-year-old Mississauga man says "low rates of returns on investments are delaying my retirement."

Um.

WTF are you invested in?

Right?  He must have it all in a savings account.

BPA

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2017, 09:21:56 AM »
It doesn't seem to me at all that these quotes are taken out of context.  The theme of all of them (except for one) is "I can't retire at 65 because...[excuse]."  Even standing alone out of context, those statements are about choices they've made. And THAT is worthy of a facepunch.

Sorry to tread on Boomers' feelings.  It's just that the article was very specifically about Boomers and many of those Boomers are being ridiculous.  And I did not entitle the thread "I Want to Facepunch Canadian Boomers."  Perhaps I could have worded it "These Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch."  I did clarify in the following posts that I certainly do not mean all Boomers. Had the article been about Gen Xers, my response would have been the same.

Anyway, maybe it's good thing that I've stayed away.

Clearly, there was a time here where there would have been no issue with facepunching people (particularly on this part of the message board) who say that retirement at 65 can't be done. 

It's about choices.  You don't need to buy a house in a high cost of living area.  You certainly do not have to buy your children a house in a high cost of living area. 

But oh well. I'll just go about my merry way having retired at 47 fully 18 years before 65.  MMM retired 35 years before 65.   It amazes me how far from the message in the blog the forum has strayed.

Completely agree, and welcome back on the forum.  ;)

Thanks, TC!

We won't be neighbours for too much longer. 

But if you and your family ever travel to the east coast, let me know!

Kashmani

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Re: Canadian Boomers I Want to Facepunch
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2017, 12:36:12 PM »
Ottawa is pretty cheap *if* you have one of the decent jobs in the city. Min wage not so much.

Ottawa is probably my favourite city in Canada. Vancouver is more glamorous, but for overall lifestyle and closeness to nature, Ottawa wins hands-down.

But finding a "decent job" in Ottawa is virtually impossible. In my field of specialty, the federal government hired two people in the past eight years. I met both of them at a conference in September. The hiring process took two full years, with a one-week take-home exam plus a role-playing interview. And none of the people hired in the past 12 years have been men. Since there is an oversupply of qualified professionals in my field in general and we have an atrocious attrition rate for women in private practice (with government employment being seen as the panacea), my chances of landing a job in Ottawa are pretty much zilch. When 600 highly qualified women apply for the job, getting around employment equity requirements is tough.

Awesome city though. I have never seen this much greenspace in a city west of the Atlantic.