Author Topic: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)  (Read 5690 times)

monte0930

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Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« on: May 26, 2017, 05:14:49 PM »
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40057117

Quote
The gap is the amount of money required in each country to
 ensure a retirement income equal to 70% of a person's pre-retirement income.

Because everyone needs at least 70% of income in retirement, SMH.

marty998

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 06:11:13 PM »
There's an article floating around Australia scaring people into thinking they need $1.5m in the kitty in order to retire.

Most people will be working till they're 90 trying to save that up, at which point...what will the point be?

fattest_foot

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 12:43:13 PM »
I always wonder about proposals like this if they actually think about what a 70 year old worker looks like, as opposed to just seeing a number.

How many people at 70 can actually still work even if they wanted to?

monte0930

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 01:23:31 PM »
I knew a guy who was 91 and still working, he would come in a sleep most of the day. One day they threw him a surprise retirement party (the surprise was he didn't know he was retiring), he died about a year later...kinda sad really.

JR

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2017, 07:01:17 PM »
I would imagine that most people who propose a retirement age of 70 don't have a job that requires physical labor. My father was a union laborer and had to retire at 58 due to a whole host of physical ailments. Luckily he didn't have any debt and could live on his $15k/yr pension until he reaches SS age. Many of his co workers have to do the same thing but unfortunately not all of them are not prepared to quit working and end up having financial troubles.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 01:23:25 PM by JR »

Abe

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2017, 08:06:10 PM »
I'd be surprised if companies will be willing to keep a 70 year old working at a mentally taxing job also; cognition speed and memory declines fairly linearly with age above 50 or so. Of course there are exceptions, but on a society-wide level that may be damaging to productivity.

respond2u

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2017, 10:49:07 PM »
cognition speed and memory declines fairly linearly with age above 50 or so.

It ain't how fast you think, it's how well you think...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/statistical-life/201401/the-myth-age-related-cognitive-decline

[Or as my granddaddy said, a young fool grows up to be an old fool]


Dave1442397

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2017, 12:38:06 PM »
I work with some very smart and mentally agile people who are in their late sixties (I think one just turned 70).

It may be a case of use it or lose it, but these people are using it every day.

Blissful Biker

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2017, 12:55:26 PM »
My dad is 70 and still working.  He has a solid DB plan and good savings but enjoys what he does.  He likes his team and waking up with a sense of purpose and structure in his day.   He can't understand my desire to retire early but we support each other.

stackorstarve

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2017, 01:03:12 PM »
You know, these articles are always going to exist because people think they should be able to afford retirement without changing their current spending. I think it stems mostly from the attitude that if you make X dollars then you can afford to spend 90% of X dollars. People think that they are living below their means because they seriously overestimate their "means." They could change, but they don't know to. Inertia's a bitch.

Abe

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2017, 03:11:17 PM »
cognition speed and memory declines fairly linearly with age above 50 or so.

It ain't how fast you think, it's how well you think...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/statistical-life/201401/the-myth-age-related-cognitive-decline

[Or as my granddaddy said, a young fool grows up to be an old fool]

That's true in some sense, and that's an awesome quote, but I expect that profit-driven companies will prioritize hiring fast thinkers as that can be more quantified as a performance metric than quality. These are the same companies that make products that fall apart on a routine basis, so clearly care about quality to a limited extent.

The paper is interesting and gives a lot of thought about why we see slowing, but doesn't really refute my comment about age and speed. Figures 3 and 4 in that paper support that assertion (though doesn't give information on the linearity of it).

At any rate, my point is that (our sharp relatives excluded), older people will on a population level have more problems with cognition (dementia for example) that will make it hard for us to expect (on average) that they should continue working until 70. There are exceptions but we aren't worried about them. They don't need us whippersnappers telling them how to think. We need to worry about our relatives who aren't as sharp as they used to be.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 03:19:17 PM by Abe »

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2017, 03:52:10 PM »
I think it's a good idea to move the retirement age to 70, because the life expectancy of low income white people is dropping, so the government won't have to ever pay out Social Security for them. Social Security solvency problem solved! :-)

monte0930

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2017, 04:04:51 PM »
I think it's a good idea to move the retirement age to 70, because the life expectancy of low income white people is dropping, so the government won't have to ever pay out Social Security for them. Social Security solvency problem solved! :-)

Strong user name to post content ratio.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2017, 06:14:47 PM »
I think it's a good idea to move the retirement age to 70, because the life expectancy of low income white people is dropping, so the government won't have to ever pay out Social Security for them. Social Security solvency problem solved! :-)

Strong user name to post content ratio.

I never knew that "monte0930" was a secret code that meant "unable to detect sarcasm." Good to know.

respond2u

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »
...I expect that profit-driven companies will prioritize hiring fast thinkers as that can be more quantified as a performance metric than quality. These are the same companies that make products that fall apart on a routine basis, so clearly care about quality to a limited extent.
...

I expect companies to hire younger people as they're usually cheaper and may take more maltreatment. Same argument for outsourcing ...

In my 20s, I read that sprinters tapped out about 21. And then Carl Lewis and Edwin Moses showed that wrong. Good pay, nutrition, and PEDs came along and now we have people like extending their careers to 30 and beyond.

In my 20s, I read that mathematical geniuses made their mark by 20. Andrew Wiles published the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem when he was close to 40, Erdos was collaborating into his 80s.

Not all of age gracefully, but the relative performance is probably more about the person than the age.




Laura33

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 07:09:19 AM »
I would imagine that most people who propose a retirement age of 70 don't have a job that requires physical labor.

This.  My mom is 70 and just now retired from teaching -- so she can spend more time running her consulting company, which pays much, much better.  But that is a totally different world than lifting/carrying/operating heavy equipment/etc. for 40 years.

mm1970

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2017, 12:33:57 PM »
I would imagine that most people who propose a retirement age of 70 don't have a job that requires physical labor.

This.  My mom is 70 and just now retired from teaching -- so she can spend more time running her consulting company, which pays much, much better.  But that is a totally different world than lifting/carrying/operating heavy equipment/etc. for 40 years.

Yes.  Many of my family members worked physical labor and were wrecked by age 55.

But even intellectual jobs are hard.  You never know if you will be the unlucky one with declining mental state.  I know some really smart and top-notch people who start to lose their edge at 50 or 60.  You can't keep the same hours, cannot remember as many things.  Some of them start having to deal with illnesses which robs their ability to work.  Obviously not all, but a noticeable number.

deathpanels

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2017, 08:46:29 PM »
I would imagine that most people who propose a retirement age of 70 don't have a job that requires physical labor.

This.  My mom is 70 and just now retired from teaching -- so she can spend more time running her consulting company, which pays much, much better.  But that is a totally different world than lifting/carrying/operating heavy equipment/etc. for 40 years.

Yes.  Many of my family members worked physical labor and were wrecked by age 55.

But even intellectual jobs are hard.  You never know if you will be the unlucky one with declining mental state.  I know some really smart and top-notch people who start to lose their edge at 50 or 60.  You can't keep the same hours, cannot remember as many things.  Some of them start having to deal with illnesses which robs their ability to work.  Obviously not all, but a noticeable number.

It depends entirely on the work and what it entails.

My father was an attorney and now in retirement he occasionally does some contract work, I think mostly out of boredom. The man has built a woodworking shop in the garage and built most of the furniture in the house at this point. I think he's just running out of things to do around the house so he decided to go back to law.

Law is one of those skills where a 70 year old can still be really useful. Contract law doesn't change very much year to year. I imagine most people working in their 70s will be business consultants in certain high-skill white collar professions where having a guy with 40+ years of experience is an asset and it doesn't matter how well he can pick up new skills.

letired

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2017, 09:33:51 PM »
My dad is 70 and still working.  He has a solid DB plan and good savings but enjoys what he does.  He likes his team and waking up with a sense of purpose and structure in his day.   He can't understand my desire to retire early but we support each other.

+1. My mom is almost 70 and still working and active, with my dad close behind her (plays pickup soccer 4+ times a week, etc). But I think a ton of it is family history/genetics, and the rest is how well you take care of yourself. There are plenty of people still productive and active at 70, but also plenty who are no longer capable, either physically or mentally. I hope to be in the first group, fingers crossed!

Cassie

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2017, 04:08:06 PM »
Studies have shown that when people quit work before 65 it is usually because their health no longer allows them to work or they get laid-off and can not find another job. So they will need to provide SS for people like that.

Pigeon

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2017, 11:20:03 AM »
I work at a university and it is not uncommon for faculty and management to work well into their 80s.  There are some who should retire long before that, but there is a reasonably large group of people who are great at what they do, love the work and should be working as long as they want to do so.

gardeningandgreen

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 11:46:03 AM »
My grandma who is 78 still runs her own campground and is sitting in her store for 13+ hours a day during the summer and she absolutely loves it. On the other hand my grandpa on the other side of my family who is 82 hasn't been able to do much of anything for himself for many years now. I really do think it comes down to how you treat yourself. My grandma who is doing well has always been fairly healthy and active. My grandpa although he was very active was not healthy at all it is showing very much over the last few years.

mm1970

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Re: Call to move retirement age to at least 70 (article)
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 01:19:27 PM »
I would imagine that most people who propose a retirement age of 70 don't have a job that requires physical labor.

This.  My mom is 70 and just now retired from teaching -- so she can spend more time running her consulting company, which pays much, much better.  But that is a totally different world than lifting/carrying/operating heavy equipment/etc. for 40 years.

Yes.  Many of my family members worked physical labor and were wrecked by age 55.

But even intellectual jobs are hard.  You never know if you will be the unlucky one with declining mental state.  I know some really smart and top-notch people who start to lose their edge at 50 or 60.  You can't keep the same hours, cannot remember as many things.  Some of them start having to deal with illnesses which robs their ability to work.  Obviously not all, but a noticeable number.

It depends entirely on the work and what it entails.

My father was an attorney and now in retirement he occasionally does some contract work, I think mostly out of boredom. The man has built a woodworking shop in the garage and built most of the furniture in the house at this point. I think he's just running out of things to do around the house so he decided to go back to law.

Law is one of those skills where a 70 year old can still be really useful. Contract law doesn't change very much year to year. I imagine most people working in their 70s will be business consultants in certain high-skill white collar professions where having a guy with 40+ years of experience is an asset and it doesn't matter how well he can pick up new skills.

Yes, my FIL is a lawyer.  He was SOOOO excited to retire (in his 60s), but then cheated on his wife, got divorced, gave her the house, moved in with his girlfriend, and found himself trying to live "high on the hog" with half of his pension and SS (because ex wife got the other half).

Most of his lawyer buddies offered to throw him work now and again.  I mean, he did house closings, divorces, that sort of thing.  He ended up telling my hubby one day that he doesn't feel like his mental state is where he can reliably work.  Thing is, I have to think that house closings are pretty boilerplate, no?  He just doesn't want to work, and likes wine.

My coworkers are engineers and science PhDs.  Many of them are still sharp, but some of them are not as sharp.  It doesn't help that our company has had a lot of layoffs, and the amount of work to do per person has gone up exponentially.  (I'm only 46 and I can't quite figure out if I'm losing my edge, or the company just keeps dumping so much work on me that I cannot keep up.)