The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Metalcat on March 29, 2019, 03:37:08 AM
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Seriously.
The first line of this article talks about the importance of having a flash car to appear rich even if you aren't.
It then goes on to recommend older luxury cars that you can buy for very little to try and fool people into thinking you have money.
I mean, if you buy a vintage XJ Jaguars then people won't be fooled that you have money, they will *know* that you have money...or at least that you have enough money to pay your mechanic to desperately try and keep that death trap running.
Wanna look rich? Buy a vintage Jaguar with no airbags that's famous for its electrical problems! You might die, but you'll look so rich!
...actually, no, you won't.
https://motor-junkie.com/25-affordable-cars-that-will-make-people-think-you-are-rich/14686/
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I suppose if you really feel you must impress someone this is a good way to go about it. Except you are likely to only impress people who don’t really know about cars. I would think that those who know would also know how much those suckers depreciate. If you just want something fun to drive then I think it is a great idea. As a teenager I really listed after the MR2 Spyder. I still think it looks great but I suspect the only ones left at this point are probably death traps.
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Ugh, the premise of spending to look rich was enough to make me do a spit take, then when I read the article and saw what they were recommending I literally burst out laughing.
I just love that the whole premise is the absolute opposite of Mustachianism.
Buy a horribly unreliable car to impress only people who know nothing about cars, and the car will cost you an absolute fortune in unpredictable repairs, that you probably can't afford because you're the type of person who buys a stupid unreliable car to try and convince people you have money that you don't.
Vs
Maybe try biking?
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That article was terrible.
So was the following article that listed cars not to touch with a ten foot pole. That list was a blend of antique cars that aren't even easily found in most parts of the country along with some perfectly fine cars that just weren't popular - which sometimes can be exactly the right cars to buy. Quality cars that are simply unloved and thus undervalued. Do your homework.
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Been there, done that. Bought a cool car on the cheap and just the difference in what i was paying for gas, insurance and repair costs between it and my old car, i could have afforded the monthly payments on a brand new car. Yep. Maybe I'd get a cool old project car to work on if I was FIREd as a hobby, but just buying one as a way to impress others, well it might work, but its not so cheap.
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the only car I'd consider is a Lexus LS. That Toyota reliability. All other options are tripe.
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I always find it humorous when I see a 2+ year old premium luxury car. I saw a Cayenne GTS the other day, and the first thing I thought was how old it looked(already). I don't know how anyone could borrow money to buy some exotic thing that's going to look dated before the debt is even half gone.
Not to mention our winters here are terrible on cars, terrible on suspension, and with all the dings and rocks you get from other cars and other jerks I see hardly any reason to buy something fancy and then proceed to drive it on public roads.
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Some old cars do look cool, if you're into that kind of thing. But an old Jag? You would either need to be an ace mechanic, or be sleeping with one named Giles or something.
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I'm not really a car guy, but I think this one might be a blast to drive.
Of course, not being a car guy, I have no idea of whether this was actually a good car or not for its time.
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I rode in a car like that once. Not quite that ornate. Anyhow - big car.
Compared to a modern car: Rode pretty good. Clearly alot of power under the hood. Nice sounds. Comfortable. Beautiful.
Compared to an ordinary car of its time: a friggin' rocketship. Everything else of its time feels like a go-cart with a tractor engine and a horse and buggy suspension.
Sort of like comparing a 2019 Tesla S to a 1988 Chevy Caprice sedan.
These were that car's peers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxfHMtgg2d8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr53h0hv8hI
https://youtu.be/_mB8kIzOW6Q?t=655
A big luxury car was speed unlimited - capable of 100 mph+ when ordinary Fords four cylinders would start overheating above 45 mph. The Model T was even more speed limited. The old Fords were built to cope with lousy roads or no roads. There were no freeways in most places. In fact the American interstate system didn't come to my part of flyover country until the 1960s. Before that were two lane highways and country lanes.
I try to judge historical technology as much by what came before it as what came after it. A particular thing might have been very primitive but it was better than what came before it. History can be really fun to learn about as long as the topic isn't too heavy.
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I’ve owned one of the cars on that list. If I could go back and facepunch my younger self, I would.
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Well, that was a silly article. I did scroll past to the 25 Worst Cars, and laughed when I saw Dodge Nitro made the list.
Hubby is in sales, so we have always had company cars. When the Nitro came out, that was an option, and since it looked cool and the wheel wells didn't take up a ton of trunk space, hubby picked it. To say that car was cheap was an understatement. One time, he parked the car next to a small pile of snow, and when he pushed the door into the snow, the door dented. Being that it was a company car, hubby kicked the door from the inside, and managed to pop the dent back out! Only a slight mark remained on the exterior door. Good enough for us, but man, you don't have much hope for quality!
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I bought a $2000 100k mile poverty spec BMW 3 series. I got quite a few comments on how I obviously had more money now I was driving a BMW.
It wasn't a bad car to spanner, as it was the pre 2000 2 valve per cylinder model. I got 50,000 miles out of it before electrical gremlins and tin worm killed it
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Aren't people funny about cars? I owned a watercooled VW at one point and a couple people made comments about it being a rich person's car similar to other German brands. No, they weren't teasing about the car being repair intensive. Car was a cheap daily driver, nothing fancy about it. It washed up nice but that was all.
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does my 1997 lexus es300 count? my next car will be a ls430 someday.
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If you want to look like old money, buy a Subaru and drive it forever. It used to be Volvo station wagons; now it’s Subaru Outbacks.
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Hey my dad kind of did that.
He bought himself a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte a few years ago. Did it in a somewhat Mustachian way, paid in cash in full ~$20k.
I know some people are going to bag me for this statement. It really is not that bad though in all honestly. He did not buy it to show off, it is his daily driver, to some people's disbelief. In all honestly some people like cars and if they do it right, buy when the car has already depreciated to its lowest, what is wrong with that? He has clients who have bought brand new cars and driven them off the lot, depreciating quickly. And honestly everyone has their "thing", his is cars. I am sure someone out there understands this point of view. But I am already bracing for the hateful replies, because I know this is an uncommon opinion.
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Hey my dad kind of did that.
He bought himself a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte a few years ago. Did it in a somewhat Mustachian way, paid in cash in full ~$20k.
I know some people are going to bag me for this statement. It really is not that bad though in all honestly. He did not buy it to show off, it is his daily driver, to some people's disbelief. In all honestly some people like cars and if they do it right, buy when the car has already depreciated to its lowest, what is wrong with that? He has clients who have bought brand new cars and driven them off the lot, depreciating quickly. And honestly everyone has their "thing", his is cars. I am sure someone out there understands this point of view. But I am already bracing for the hateful replies, because I know this is an uncommon opinion.
I posted the article here because it's recommending absolutely terrible, unreliable, expensive to maintain cars that are cheap to buy (for a reason) for the sole purpose of trying to look like rich, which is absurd.
Accepting people's love of driving is actually pretty respected around here. But that's not why we're making fun of this dumbshit article.
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If you want to look like old money, buy a Subaru and drive it forever. It used to be Volvo station wagons; now it’s Subaru Outbacks.
Yep. In the rich neighborhood next door, a tonne of Volvos as well as subarus (pretty much all newer models). I love both of those kind of cars (but I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a car unless I was a millionaire).
I still remember my HS friend's Dad bought I believe a used jaguar, and he was so excited about his purchased he offered to drive me and my friend home. And on the way home, it broke down by the side of the road.
Both my brother and my Dad are really into cars. I think they know enough about cars to avoid the money pits. I think the most expensive car my Dad has was in 1986 a 1985 corvette. Was still expensive but he bought it privately, from a man who bought the car at full price and wife hated the car. For most of his life he did the financially inefficient thing of buying a car pretty much new, but then getting rid of it 3, 4 years later because he sees a newer car or model he HAS to have. Now he leases.
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Hey my dad kind of did that.
He bought himself a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte a few years ago. Did it in a somewhat Mustachian way, paid in cash in full ~$20k.
I know some people are going to bag me for this statement. It really is not that bad though in all honestly. He did not buy it to show off, it is his daily driver, to some people's disbelief. In all honestly some people like cars and if they do it right, buy when the car has already depreciated to its lowest, what is wrong with that? He has clients who have bought brand new cars and driven them off the lot, depreciating quickly. And honestly everyone has their "thing", his is cars. I am sure someone out there understands this point of view. But I am already bracing for the hateful replies, because I know this is an uncommon opinion.
I'm just curious about the Maserati quality. Has it been a good car? I really like the looks of them.
I heard a story about a vehicle that a guy bought to suprise his wife who hated it and he was forced to resale and replace with a more MMM type car of some sort. Anyhow my friend bought the cast off vehicle at much less than new even though it was not quite to its first oil change. Seller was grumpy about it as you might expect. Was a good car for friend.
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I bought a $2000 100k mile poverty spec BMW 3 series. I got quite a few comments on how I obviously had more money now I was driving a BMW.
It wasn't a bad car to spanner, as it was the pre 2000 2 valve per cylinder model. I got 50,000 miles out of it before electrical gremlins and tin worm killed it
Ha. I worked at a pet store in college. We were talking about a new co-worker failing to show up on time, and someone commented that "she probably doesn't need this job, look at what she drives." Which was a complete beater 1980's BMW. I looked dumbfounded for a minute and said "Umm, my Civic (which was only about 5 years old at the time) is worth more than that car, but cheaper to maintain."
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Sidebar: there ARE literally some young people who get jobs who really don't need the money. I live in a university town and some of the students are rich. My ex worked at a high end restaurant and this young woman worked there. She would just not pick up her paycheck. They would nag her about it but when she finally left she left a bunch behind, and even the ones she took she never cashed. She just doing the job more for fun than money? Or maybe her parents made her try a real job? Who knows.
one of the more humorous local stories was that a set of parents hired a chauffer to drive the student to and from classes, because they were worried about his "safety." A lot of the off campus houses are lined with new or really nice looking, not inexpensive cars. I've seen bmws, lexus, etc. These are undergraduates. I don't get it.
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I bought a $2000 100k mile poverty spec BMW 3 series. I got quite a few comments on how I obviously had more money now I was driving a BMW.
It wasn't a bad car to spanner, as it was the pre 2000 2 valve per cylinder model. I got 50,000 miles out of it before electrical gremlins and tin worm killed it
Ha. I worked at a pet store in college. We were talking about a new co-worker failing to show up on time, and someone commented that "she probably doesn't need this job, look at what she drives." Which was a complete beater 1980's BMW. I looked dumbfounded for a minute and said "Umm, my Civic (which was only about 5 years old at the time) is worth more than that car, but cheaper to maintain."
It really wasn't expensive to maintain, as long as you didn't do something silly like take it to a BMW dealer. Problem was more fuel use. It used loads of fuel for a 120hp petrol engine, from which a fair few of the 120 horses had long ago gone lame.
I was surprised by how many people thought that it was an expensive car though.
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Sidebar: there ARE literally some young people who get jobs who really don't need the money. I live in a university town and some of the students are rich. My ex worked at a high end restaurant and this young woman worked there. She would just not pick up her paycheck. They would nag her about it but when she finally left she left a bunch behind, and even the ones she took she never cashed. She just doing the job more for fun than money? Or maybe her parents made her try a real job? Who knows.
one of the more humorous local stories was that a set of parents hired a chauffer to drive the student to and from classes, because they were worried about his "safety." A lot of the off campus houses are lined with new or really nice looking, not inexpensive cars. I've seen bmws, lexus, etc. These are undergraduates. I don't get it.
Oh yeah, my roommate managed our apartment complex and would tell me some of the ballpark bank balances that some of the student tenants had with their apartment applications. They would have new BMWs and one had an Acura NSX (this was late '90's). Mostly they were foreign students.
Definitely not the case with this particular person though.
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the only car I'd consider is a Lexus LS. That Toyota reliability. All other options are tripe.
I have a positive Lexus story.
We were in the market for a car, we have a small business and my wife would noticed every
car our customers drove up in. If she saw something she liked she would ask if it was for sale and
tell them if they ever buy a new car instead of them trading it in, she would buy it.
It took a while, but a customer with a Lexus said the dealer would give him $4,000 for his 97 Lexus.
So we bought a nice 1997 Lexus in 2007 for $4,000. 11 years later we sold the Lexus for $2,900.
It cost us $100 a year in depreciation! A week later the buyer stopped buy to pick up a key my son had,
he told me how much he liked the car, I said I know, we miss it!
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the only car I'd consider is a Lexus LS. That Toyota reliability. All other options are tripe.
I have a positive Lexus story.
We were in the market for a car, we have a small business and my wife would noticed every
car our customers drove up in. If she saw something she liked she would ask if it was for sale and
tell them if they ever buy a new car instead of them trading it in, she would buy it.
It took a while, but a customer with a Lexus said the dealer would give him $4,000 for his 97 Lexus.
So we bought a nice 1997 Lexus in 2007 for $4,000. 11 years later we sold the Lexus for $2,900.
It cost us $100 a year in depreciation! A week later the buyer stopped buy to pick up a key my son had,
he told me how much he liked the car, I said I know, we miss it!
97 must have been a massive sales year for lexus. i still see tons of 97ish ES like mine running around town.
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the only car I'd consider is a Lexus LS. That Toyota reliability. All other options are tripe.
I have a positive Lexus story.
We were in the market for a car, we have a small business and my wife would noticed every
car our customers drove up in. If she saw something she liked she would ask if it was for sale and
tell them if they ever buy a new car instead of them trading it in, she would buy it.
It took a while, but a customer with a Lexus said the dealer would give him $4,000 for his 97 Lexus.
So we bought a nice 1997 Lexus in 2007 for $4,000. 11 years later we sold the Lexus for $2,900.
It cost us $100 a year in depreciation! A week later the buyer stopped buy to pick up a key my son had,
he told me how much he liked the car, I said I know, we miss it!
97 must have been a massive sales year for lexus. i still see tons of 97ish ES like mine running around town.
If MD=Medical Doctor, you need to upgrade to a used LS, stat! :=p
ES = Executive Sedan
GS = Grand Sedan
LS = Luxury Sedan
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the only car I'd consider is a Lexus LS. That Toyota reliability. All other options are tripe.
I have a positive Lexus story.
We were in the market for a car, we have a small business and my wife would noticed every
car our customers drove up in. If she saw something she liked she would ask if it was for sale and
tell them if they ever buy a new car instead of them trading it in, she would buy it.
It took a while, but a customer with a Lexus said the dealer would give him $4,000 for his 97 Lexus.
So we bought a nice 1997 Lexus in 2007 for $4,000. 11 years later we sold the Lexus for $2,900.
It cost us $100 a year in depreciation! A week later the buyer stopped buy to pick up a key my son had,
he told me how much he liked the car, I said I know, we miss it!
97 must have been a massive sales year for lexus. i still see tons of 97ish ES like mine running around town.
If MD=Medical Doctor, you need to upgrade to a used LS, stat! :=p
ES = Executive Sedan
GS = Grand Sedan
LS = Luxury Sedan
Those three all sound pretty fancy: which is supposed to be the most extravagant?
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I'm not going to lie, if I was rich I'd happily drive a Lotus Elise (which has a Toyota engine mounted to a Honda or Toyota transmission) or an Audi S8.
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If I had stupid money, I'd buy the yellow Westfield 7 Lotus replica that my buddy built using his Mazda MX-5 Miata donor car. He would have to include the vintage-look racing goggles or No Deal!
This is the guide he used: http://westiebuild.blogspot.com/
I love the Miata, esp the 1st gen, mid-cycle refresh 1994-97, with the pop-up headlights, and tan seats, and LSD.
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Lotus Elise: "Although rare and somewhat expensive when new, you can find them now for around $20,000"
Meanwhile, the cheapest one in the USA (via CarGurus) is $28,877.
Admittedly I am a car guy but almost everything on that list screams 'cheap' to me, not rich. Nissan 350Z? That's the hallmark of the broke sideways-hat drives-like-a-douchebag crowd.
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The British Top Gear had many hilarious episodes where they purchased old sports cars or super cars for cheap. Hijax ensue as they try to merely make it from point A to point B 100 miles away. Many breakdowns later, the repair bills would outstrip the cost of the purchase.
The inevitable conclusion was the question, "can you buy an older fancy car for less than a modern car?" is answered with resounding "no"
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On one hand, totally facepunch worthy.
On the other hand, I could see myself buying an old porsche for cheap post FI and fixing it up myself.
To me, the "luxury" wouldn't be driving a fancy car. The luxury would be that I get to work on it myself.
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Admittedly I am a car guy but almost everything on that list screams 'cheap' to me, not rich. Nissan 350Z? That's the hallmark of the broke sideways-hat drives-like-a-douchebag crowd.
My thoughts exactly. I would have added vaping.
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I had an art teacher in high school who would haunt the local junkyards and lovingly put together classic Mercedeses from bits and pieces. When he got finished they were perfect and he sold them for big bucks. Always drove one, too. He said the old ones without modern electronics were easy to work with. Rumor was he made more from the cars than from teaching.
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pbkmaine,
The 1970-80s diesel Mercedes were rock solid. I owned one that was older than I was with over a quarter million miles on it before it was sadly totaled. With that said, I don't think they ever sold for much. Your teacher must have been looking for much older models.
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Yes. I graduated high school in 1974.
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Yes. I graduated high school in 1974.
Doh! Your age is public. Don't mind me.
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
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Ooh! I could go out and buy a vintage Ford Probe and then everybody would think I was cool with my futuristic supercar. I'd buy that for a dollar!
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Miata's are great cars. I drove one in my mid 20's. It was cheap, fun to drive, and no one ever asked me to help them move. What more could you ask for?
Although the one time I put an 8ft long Ikea furniture pack in the passenger seat and drove across the Bay Bridge in the rain was a bit dicey.
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MX5/miatas are an almost mustashian car. Light, dont use much fuel, easy to maintain, and cheap to buy.
As long as you don't need to move a lot of crap, they're ideal
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Thank you for correcting. I meant to refer to the 94-97 mid-cycle refresh, with the tan seats and LSD.
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Thank you for correcting. I meant to refer to the 94-97 mid-cycle refresh, with the tan seats and LSD.
After I posted I realized that maybe that's what you were talking about; those 1.8L NAs were nice indeed. I had a 2000 model and really enjoyed it. Wish I could have gotten a six speed though. It was geared so low that it was screaming in fifth on the interstate (I know they're not GT cars but 4000 rpm gets old after a while).
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Thank you for correcting. I meant to refer to the 94-97 mid-cycle refresh, with the tan seats and LSD.
After I posted I realized that maybe that's what you were talking about; those 1.8L NAs were nice indeed. I had a 2000 model and really enjoyed it. Wish I could have gotten a six speed though. It was geared so low that it was screaming in fifth on the interstate (I know they're not GT cars but 4000 rpm gets old after a while).
The mid-cycle refresh was so significant that many owners feel it should have been the real NB, and prices would have stayed higher, instead of being lumped with the 90-93 NAs.
I'm lusting for a spanking brand new club edition, stick, white, tan interior. Wouldn't affect my FIRE date. Practical only for daily commute. Or Kid 1, Or Kid 2. Can't take the Mrs. She has to stay with the left behind kid. Or she could take the car of she decided to re-learn driving stick (she hasn't driven stick in 20 years). Or my dad would perma-borrow it, Mazda and stick are his weakness (he's owned a 323 hatchback, 626, 929 wagons, CX-5 currently).
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Miata's are great cars. I drove one in my mid 20's. It was cheap, fun to drive, and no one ever asked me to help them move. What more could you ask for?
Although the one time I put an 8ft long Ikea furniture pack in the passenger seat and drove across the Bay Bridge in the rain was a bit dicey.
This Dicey would totally do that! IIRC, when the Miatas first came out, they were only about $6k. I desperately wanted one, as I knew the price would go up. I was saving for a house, so I didn't do it. Same thing happened when the Suburu Outback was born. By then, I was in the process of buying my third house and staying with a friend until it closed. I showed her the brochure and she scoffed at it, saying it wasn't sexy enough for a single girl. I thought her reason was stupid, but I still didn't buy the car.
Fast forward a lot of years. Now FIRE and driving my former company car that I bought out cheaply when they killed the company car program. It was a sexy beast, a bright blue 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan XLS. DH was doing all the maintenance and upkeep and he decreed it was time to "let it go". He asked me to chose a new car. Petulant at losing my beloved van, I replied that I wanted a new Tesla. (I've purchased exactly zero brand new cars in my life. Don't feel sorry for me, I've had lots of brand-new company cars.) Shockingly, he agreed. I immediately went into panic mode. No way did I want to be responsible for driving/caring for such an expensive "thing". We finally compromised on a two year old Toyota Venza. I can still haul a fair amount of crap in it and it seats our four adult-size humans comfortably. I think of it as my "fancy" new car, even though it's now five years old. Recently, I drove my friend to the airport in her Lexus. I couldn't believe how similar it felt to my Venza. I wisely said nothing of that to her.
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This Fiat gives you the chance to drive a rare, Italian roadster with turbo power and distinctive looks for Miata money.
LOL!!!
It's the same price as a Miata because it is a Miata. It's built at the Mazda factory in Japan that builds Miatas. They just add different body panels and a Fiat engine to it. On that thought, who wants an engine built by Fiat?
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I'm not going to lie, if I was rich I'd happily drive a Lotus Elise (which has a Toyota engine mounted to a Honda or Toyota transmission) or an Audi S8.
In my pre-MMM days, I had an Elise. Fantastic car - as you said it had a Toyota drivetrain that was bulletproof. Car insurance was cheap, because it was listed as a "pleasure vehicle" and there weren't kids out wrecking them. It got over 30mpg, and tires and consumables like break pads were cheap. It hardly depreciated - after 10 years of ownership I sold it for 75% of what I paid new. I could drive it to an autocross or track day, drive it like I stole it, and cruise home without any worries about whether or not it could take the abuse.
After I stopped competing in it (and more importantly after finding MMM) I realized that it was the opportunity cost that was killing me. That's when I sold it, and I've been much happier with the time that it knocked off my working life than I would have been driving it occasionally.
I do think they make sense if you are a true car fanatic though. If you buy one today for $30k you'll almost certainly be able to sell it in 5 years for...$30k. During those 5 years running costs should be incredibly low, especially if you can do your own work. ***Excluding the loss of market gains*** it's probably not much more expensive to own than a Honda Fit.
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Maserati biturbo??? Surest thing to bankruptcy!!!
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This Fiat gives you the chance to drive a rare, Italian roadster with turbo power and distinctive looks for Miata money.
LOL!!!
It's the same price as a Miata because it is a Miata. It's built at the Mazda factory in Japan that builds Miatas. They just add different body panels and a Fiat engine to it. On that thought, who wants an engine built by Fiat?
Actually - Fiat has made some really great engines over the years. I've thoroughly enjoyed wringing out every horsepower from some of their smallest engines. They were building dual overhead cam engines that were efficient and full of technology long before American car companies who have hung onto pushrod valvetrains for decades longer than everyone else.
My old Ford 3.3L made the same horsepower as some of the 1.8L engines I owned that were designed in Europe at the same time. Torque obviously was a different story but that old Ford engine quickly ran out of breath and sucked fuel whereas the little European engines I owned would happily rev for hours while still getting reasonable fuel economy.
I have to admit - the title of this thread makes me imagine trying to look rich while driving a Ford Tempo or something similar. MMM readers might get it but nobody else would. Cheap car, loads of savings.
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Actually - Fiat has made some really great engines over the years. I've thoroughly enjoyed wringing out every horsepower from some of their smallest engines. They were building dual overhead cam engines that were efficient and full of technology long before American car companies who have hung onto pushrod valvetrains for decades longer than everyone else.
Fiat and it's subsidiaries are constantly found near the bottom of the rankings for reliability by Consumer Reports, and JD Power, while Mazda is normally in the middle to upper middle of the pack. If they are the same car in every other way I would much rather have the one with a Mazda engine than a Fiat engine, that is all I was getting at.
American cars are also normally ranked near the bottom, so no argument there. ;)
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If you're going to buy the real thing, get the MX-5. not the Fiat aka Fake-Miata.
The enthusiast community is bigger for the MX-5, at least in UK and USA.
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How the fuck did my thread about "terrible old cars" turn into a thread about Miatas, arguable some of the consistently least terrible cars in history???
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How the fuck did my thread about "terrible old cars" turn into a thread about Miatas, arguable some of the consistently least terrible cars in history???
I responded to @PDXTabs's post on Lotus Elise (w/Toyota engine) and thread went uphill from there on. Sorry, not sorry.
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Actually - Fiat has made some really great engines over the years. I've thoroughly enjoyed wringing out every horsepower from some of their smallest engines. They were building dual overhead cam engines that were efficient and full of technology long before American car companies who have hung onto pushrod valvetrains for decades longer than everyone else.
Fiat and it's subsidiaries are constantly found near the bottom of the rankings for reliability by Consumer Reports, and JD Power, while Mazda is normally in the middle to upper middle of the pack. If they are the same car in every other way I would much rather have the one with a Mazda engine than a Fiat engine, that is all I was getting at.
American cars are also normally ranked near the bottom, so no argument there. ;)
The Fiat cars as a whole may have problems but the Fiat engines I had the most experiences with were quite alot of fun and good. The cars themselves (1990s and 1980s) were very simple and light construction so things broke from time to time. They were easy and inexpensive to repair when this happened though. Not difficult at all to work on. And second gear always grinded a little once it had some miles on it if the driver didn't finesse the transmission and clutch a little.
Yugos (a Fiat licensed copy of a Fiat 126) were universally ridiculed here in the USA because Americans thought they ought to be able to buy a car that cost $4500 new that would survive twenty years of neglect - seriously - cheap cars often attract cheap owners. Cheap owners do not worry over the maintenance schedule, the best lubricants or quality repairs. They use whatever cheap temporary materials they have on hand and bitch about the car when the next thing breaks. Duct tape and bailing wire do not make quality repairs.
Yugos had alot of potential as long term local cars - not long distance family haulers. Cheap to buy, cheap to repair, simple to repair. Requires an owner with expectations in line with the cost of the vehicle. An owner who knows how to replace a starter or window regulator is a bonus.
I marvel at the number of cars Americans sent to the crusher due to an inability to make repairs themselves and thus repairs made economically. I've owned upwards of 40 cars over the years. Many of them purchased for little and then I made the necessary repairs cheap and drove it for a year or several. Sold it and recouped most or all of my expenses and thus drove for free or nearly so.
I look at Mercs, BMWs, and other "luxury" brands and know I could make one last but I'm not sure the cost of even used parts would be affordable. Swapping parts out shouldn't be that much more difficult than any other modern car.
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How the fuck did my thread about "terrible old cars" turn into a thread about Miatas, arguable some of the consistently least terrible cars in history???
Sorry, that would be my fault.
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How the fuck did my thread about "terrible old cars" turn into a thread about Miatas, arguable some of the consistently least terrible cars in history???
Sorry, that would be my fault.
No worries, I just find it hilarious.
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Thank you for correcting. I meant to refer to the 94-97 mid-cycle refresh, with the tan seats and LSD.
After I posted I realized that maybe that's what you were talking about; those 1.8L NAs were nice indeed. I had a 2000 model and really enjoyed it. Wish I could have gotten a six speed though. It was geared so low that it was screaming in fifth on the interstate (I know they're not GT cars but 4000 rpm gets old after a while).
Fun fact: 6th in the 6 speed is basically the same RPM as 5th in the 5 speed miatas!! You just get more gears in between, hahaha. (The 6vs5 speed have different gear ratios. But they have a different rear end that gets the highway RPM to even out!)
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Fun fact: 6th in the 6 speed is basically the same RPM as 5th in the 5 speed miatas!! You just get more gears in between, hahaha. (The 6vs5 speed have different gear ratios. But they have a different rear end that gets the highway RPM to even out!)
But you could change the rear end (in your 6 speed) at the same time you pop a Torsen in. But that might not be very mustacheian.
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Because my fancy avatar pup just needs this:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=503851026&zip=92604&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D92604%26sortBy%3DmileageDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26makeCodeList%3DRR%26searchRadius%3D100&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&makeCodeList=RR&searchRadius=100&makeCode1=RR&modelCode1=SPUR&clickType=listing
Brilliant. Rajneesh. Just. Brilliant!
A piece of infamous history. My kinda thing.
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Hey my dad kind of did that.
He bought himself a 2008 Maserati Quattroporte a few years ago. Did it in a somewhat Mustachian way, paid in cash in full ~$20k.
I know some people are going to bag me for this statement. It really is not that bad though in all honestly. He did not buy it to show off, it is his daily driver, to some people's disbelief. In all honestly some people like cars and if they do it right, buy when the car has already depreciated to its lowest, what is wrong with that? He has clients who have bought brand new cars and driven them off the lot, depreciating quickly. And honestly everyone has their "thing", his is cars. I am sure someone out there understands this point of view. But I am already bracing for the hateful replies, because I know this is an uncommon opinion.
I'm just curious about the Maserati quality. Has it been a good car? I really like the looks of them.
I heard a story about a vehicle that a guy bought to suprise his wife who hated it and he was forced to resale and replace with a more MMM type car of some sort. Anyhow my friend bought the cast off vehicle at much less than new even though it was not quite to its first oil change. Seller was grumpy about it as you might expect. Was a good car for friend.
It has been a great car. Gets decent mileage, its his daily driver. and his office is really close so no really long commutes. He's had it for 3 going on 4 years now, which is more than he though it would last. And he could sell it for pretty much what he paid for it, maybe a few thousand less. It only had one owner, then the used car dealer drove it for a bit, but due to a young son he decided not to keep it for himself. It has the occasional odd thing happen, but it has not been too expensive to fix: New battery, faulty windows for a bit, trunks electric latch doesn't work anymore. But besides that its a great car. And since its a Maserati the exhaust sounds amazing!!! And since Maserati is owned by Ferrari they have 400hp Ferrari-Maserati Engines, which are fun!!
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I love the Miata, esp the 2nd gen with the pop-up headlights.
2nd gen Miatas (the NB) had fixed headlights. The 1st gen (NA) was the only Miata that's ever had pop-up headlights.
Thank you for correcting. I meant to refer to the 94-97 mid-cycle refresh, with the tan seats and LSD.
After I posted I realized that maybe that's what you were talking about; those 1.8L NAs were nice indeed. I had a 2000 model and really enjoyed it. Wish I could have gotten a six speed though. It was geared so low that it was screaming in fifth on the interstate (I know they're not GT cars but 4000 rpm gets old after a while).
Fun fact: 6th in the 6 speed is basically the same RPM as 5th in the 5 speed miatas!! You just get more gears in between, hahaha. (The 6vs5 speed have different gear ratios. But they have a different rear end that gets the highway RPM to even out!)
I guess the answer is to get the six speed and just stay on twisty back roads like you're supposed to, huh?