Author Topic: Boats  (Read 6046 times)

blue_green_sparks

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Boats
« on: July 26, 2020, 08:17:01 AM »
Even before entertaining retirement I was naturally wary of boat ownership even though I love them and the joy they can bring. In my 20's I found a basic sound hull and an outboard engine that sat in the original crate for years and a old trailer I could rebuild. I put together a reliable 18' center console boat for $5000 and enjoyed that boat for 25 years.

Oh, but some of the 'deals' that the coworkers mentioned made me cringe. Ten and twenty year loans where they pay three times the actual value and at the end have a floating money pit that seldom still runs. Happy couples wandering around the boat show with visions of family island beach parties often end up with unwilling young boat mates complaining about the heat and poor phone reception. And then the endless repair, maintenance and scrubbing, fuel and oil, coast guard equipment and random boardings, boat and liability insurance, tow insurance, storage, registrations, and appropriate tow vehicle, etc.

I counselled one coworker but he fell prey to a slick salesman and a mere 12 months later was hoping I would take over his payments, LOL.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 08:23:52 AM by blue_green_sparks »

gooki

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Re: Boats
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2020, 04:11:39 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Boats
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2020, 05:20:20 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

People buy anything and everything on credit.   ;-/

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Boats
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2020, 06:58:20 AM »
My fundamental rule with watercraft is never-ever-ever own anything with an engine that goes on the water.

Growing up, my family had a sailboat and close friends of mine had a cabin cruiser. For every time my friends' boat went out, my family's boat probably went out 20-30 times. Engine issues seemed to be a constant problem for the cabin cruiser. It also didn't help that fuel at the gas dock is pricey, and their boat got 1-2 mpg.

Even on the sailboat, the little 10 hp outboard engine was one of the biggest sources of problems, and by the time my folks upgraded to an even bigger sailboat they had amassed collection of four outboards in various states of serviceability. A single set of sails lasted the 30+ years they owned the boat.

SwordGuy

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Re: Boats
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2020, 07:45:47 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

People buy anything and everything on credit.   ;-/

People hire prostitutes on credit.   I know because a dear friend divorced her husband after the whorehouse was raided by police and the police went thru the credit card charges looking for the customers.  He was one of them.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Boats
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2020, 08:04:11 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

People buy anything and everything on credit.   ;-/

People hire prostitutes on credit.   I know because a dear friend divorced her husband after the whorehouse was raided by police and the police went thru the credit card charges looking for the customers.  He was one of them.

Way to leave a paper trail.  ;-/ What happened to cash, so discrete?

Fishindude

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Re: Boats
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2020, 08:05:49 AM »
I'm a boat guy, have owned a bunch of them and currently have a 22' pontoon, 18' sport fishing boat, 14' jon boat, plus several kayaks and a canoe.
If you're not rather mechanically inclined and don't know how to care for things, maintain them, etc. you probably should not own anything with a motor or trailer.   Rent one a few times first if you've never owned one.

The financing deals on boats are crazy.  The big wakeboard boats, Moombas, Mastercraft, etc. are the rage now if you want to be cool on the water.  Those boats sell new anywhere from $100k to $200k, the majority of them are sold on credit, financed for 10-15 years.   Pretty insane to strap yourself to payments for 15 years for a toy.

If you get serious about buying a boat, get one used off Craigslist or similar 3-6 years old that someone is tired of making payments on and pay cash.   Most don't have much wrong with them other than they may need a tune up from sitting and not being used.   Most folks only burn a few tanks of fuel per year through their boats.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Boats
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 08:30:24 AM »
I personally have no desire to own a boat with a motor.  In the Midwest Iíd only consider it if I lived directly on the body of water I planned to use it on.  I would seriously consider the freedom boat club if. Decide I want one for summer weekend though.  I know itís still pricey but not having to maintain something that gets little use is a good thing IMHO.

index

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Re: Boats
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2020, 11:00:54 AM »
If you want a boat, find another couple who you like going to the lake with and buy a boat together.

We have an older late 80's runabout bought 8 years ago for $5k + 2.5k for new upholstery, carpet, diy gel coat and a big tune up. We live about 1.5 hours from the lake and store it onsite. We figure $1000 for storage near the lake, winterizing, tags and $1000 in a maintenance fund (1k per family). After 8 years and have about 5.5k in the boat maintenance fund paying the on-site mechanic to fix anything that comes up. Between the families, it is probably used about 20+ days a year - May to October.

It has definitely been worth it for us.         

Capsu78

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Re: Boats
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2020, 11:01:46 AM »
We now live on a lake, so we were able to justify it.  However, a special lake because it is deemed a "No Motor" lake...not even battery powered.  A small paddleboat came with the house, but we decided to upgrade and splurge on a 17 ft pontoon paddle boat...kind of a rarity, but provides a nice platform for the grandkids to jump off from while we drink a nice cold beverage.  Top speed?  4 miles per hour if the wind is right and we peddle like heck!

Since no engine to hassle with, it's low cost to insure, we bought a boat lift to act as permanent storage, no trailer involved.  Total price, boat and lift- $15,500, or about what we might have spent in a heavy travel year.  2020 cancelled travel plans, so that prompted us to buy sight unseen during the height of the lockdown... we did have copious research into the purchase, however, so no surprises.

Another neighbor saw the fun we were having and decided to purchase one- dealer is completely sold out and waiting for more inventory.  The other economic reality is that these style paddle boats, without "motor" depreciation, can still fetch $5-7 grand at any age.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: Boats
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2020, 12:04:42 PM »
My dad's a big boater, so I'm really happy he's decided to downsize his boat to one he can keep on a trailer.  No more marina fees for him! 

My only boat is a kayak and we live on a lake.  However, you're not allowed a motor boat and I don't know how to sail.  I may learn though since both my mother and mother-in-law do. 

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Boats
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2020, 12:37:52 PM »
I'm not a boat person, but boat people tell me that 'boat' stands for 'break out another thousand'. Haha

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Boats
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2020, 12:58:17 PM »
This thread stoked my canoe-lust to the point where I actually checked out some used ones on Craig's List. I saw an all-wood one for over $4k, but based on the pictures it was truly drool-worthy.

I probably shouldn't surf pr0n at work but all this talk of boats got me hot and bothered.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Boats
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2020, 03:41:12 PM »
@TheGrimSqueaker kayaks and canoes are hard to find right now just like bikes.

GreenEggs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2020, 11:22:28 PM »
I grew up on a lake, and am living on the same lake again at 56.  We have a boat and usually get out on the water a few times per week.  It's a great way to relax with family and enjoy nature.  We see all kinds of birds, explore the many coves, critique the neighbors' landscaping & architecture, swim, ski, enjoy cold beers & good music.  Our boat is a tritoon, which is a great type of boat for cruising around slowly, and economically, but also has a large enough motor for skiing.  The motor is a Honda, using the same V-6 engine block as their Accord, so it's very dependable.  (I've watched YouTube videos of professional saltwater charter captains with 5000+ trouble-free hours on theirs.)  We've put about 100 hours on ours in the past year. 


I would not have purchased this boat if we didn't live on the water.  I wouldn't make payments on a boat, or any other toy.  But there are affordable ways to get out on the water.  Partnering with friends, CL deals, canoes, kayaks, jon boats, inflatables, etc. 


I picked up an inflatable boat last Black Friday for carrying along when we travel.  It's 12.5' long & is pretty roomy for two people, and can fit up to 5 people.  It will go pretty well with a small outboard or electric trolling motor, but can handle up to 25 hp.  I was impressed with how well it moves along using the oars that came with it.  The boat folds up to about 24"x 48"x 15" & weighs 94 lbs.  It was about $800 on sale.  It seems pretty durable, but I don't know how long it will last.  These cheaper models are made with PVC material which isn't intended for full-time exposure to the sun.  So, you either keep it covered or pack it up when it's not being used.  The main advantages of inflatables are they're unsinkable, relatively lightweight, pack up small, and don't require a trailer.  It's great on small lakes & I'm looking forward to exploring the inlets & rivers at the coast. 


Jet skis are another easy way to get on the water.  They are lightweight & compact, so are easy to haul behind any car.  You can't really hang out in one, like you can lounge in a boat, but you can pull tubes & wakeboards with them.  You can use one to ferry a few friends to an island, or private beach away from the crowds, and enjoy that as a base area while taking turns tubing, boarding, or just riding. 


That's the beauty of any boat.  They can take you away from the crowds to unique places that you'd never see without a boat of some sort.  There's a boat for every budget. 








PhilB

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Re: Boats
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2020, 01:19:17 AM »
My fundamental rule with watercraft is never-ever-ever own anything with an engine that goes on the water.

Growing up, my family had a sailboat and close friends of mine had a cabin cruiser. For every time my friends' boat went out, my family's boat probably went out 20-30 times. Engine issues seemed to be a constant problem for the cabin cruiser. It also didn't help that fuel at the gas dock is pricey, and their boat got 1-2 mpg.

Even on the sailboat, the little 10 hp outboard engine was one of the biggest sources of problems, and by the time my folks upgraded to an even bigger sailboat they had amassed collection of four outboards in various states of serviceability. A single set of sails lasted the 30+ years they owned the boat.

If I'm out kayaking and someone goes past with a motorboat or cabin cruiser I always think to myself "I'm burning calories, they're burning money."

dragoncar

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Re: Boats
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2020, 04:09:11 AM »
BOAT ENGINE GOES VROOM

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Boats
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2020, 07:29:02 AM »
If I'm out kayaking and someone goes past with a motorboat or cabin cruiser I always think to myself "I'm burning calories, they're burning money."

That's much nicer than what I usually think when a motorboat zooms by. ;-) The place where I windsurf / SUP is about a mile west of a large public marina (with boat ramp) so boats/jetskis are constantly zooming along ~500 feet from shore.

ixtap

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Re: Boats
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2020, 09:29:04 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

If you do it right, it counts as a second home, so you can get a deduction...

We bought our first boat with a 0% line of credit, so paid the fee upfront. We have paid cash since, although we probably out the kayak on a cc for some amount back, it was probably only 1%.

We also lived on our boat for several years and are looking forward to doing so again.  Boats are wonderful things, as long as you take care of them and can handle it yourself when the battery explodes.

GuitarStv

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Re: Boats
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2020, 09:54:13 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

People buy anything and everything on credit.   ;-/

People hire prostitutes on credit.   I know because a dear friend divorced her husband after the whorehouse was raided by police and the police went thru the credit card charges looking for the customers.  He was one of them.

Way to leave a paper trail.  ;-/ What happened to cash, so discrete?

While I don't really understand why prostitution should be illegal (doing this tends to make life less safe for the prostitutes, empowers/enriches pimps, and increases the transmission of STDs all while never preventing prostitution from occurring) . . . good for the police going after the johns rather than the prostitutes involved.

LiveLean

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Re: Boats
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2020, 11:21:25 AM »
I have five paddleboards, the oldest of which I bought in 2011. I have yet to spend a dollar on maintenance.

I'm on the water most every day. I rarely see a fat person paddling or a fit person at the helm of a jet ski or boat.

PDXTabs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2020, 11:32:42 AM »
People buy boats on credit?

If you do it right, it counts as a second home, so you can get a deduction...

I want you to know that you are going to be personally responsible for my boat loan. But seriously, if I do that I'll literally live in it. Express 37 anyone?

Sailor Sam

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Re: Boats
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2020, 12:14:47 PM »
I love boats. But I let the American taxpayer own them.

jinga nation

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Re: Boats
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2020, 02:59:25 PM »
I love boats. But I let the American taxpayer own them.
I dunno why I was expecting this, maybe based on reading your journal.
Your boats are yooge, not of the pond variety.

ixtap

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Re: Boats
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2020, 04:36:23 PM »
People buy boats on credit?

If you do it right, it counts as a second home, so you can get a deduction...

I want you to know that you are going to be personally responsible for my boat loan. But seriously, if I do that I'll literally live in it. Express 37 anyone?

It is going to be difficult to get a loan for an older boat, so I am probably safe if that is what you want.

We love living aboard and here it is cheaper than most housing options. Depending, of course, on how much work your boat needs. Last year's rigging and deck refit nigh on doubled our usual annual expenses, which of course affects our average spend.

PDXTabs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2020, 06:13:19 PM »
We love living aboard and here it is cheaper than most housing options.

Awesome, what do you have?

GreenEggs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2020, 07:23:13 PM »
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/


This is a great site to browse big boats. 

ixtap

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Re: Boats
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2020, 08:27:52 PM »
We love living aboard and here it is cheaper than most housing options.

Awesome, what do you have?

1987 Pearson 39-2

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Boats
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 06:29:28 AM »
My dad's a big boater, so I'm really happy he's decided to downsize his boat to one he can keep on a trailer.  No more marina fees for him! 

My only boat is a kayak and we live on a lake.  However, you're not allowed a motor boat and I don't know how to sail.  I may learn though since both my mother and mother-in-law do.

Highly recommend learning to sail! :)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Boats
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2020, 11:55:40 AM »
I love boats. But I let the American taxpayer own them.

Probably the most Mustachian approach of all, even with the mandatory dress shoe redundancy.

Sailor Sam

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Re: Boats
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2020, 03:04:26 PM »
I love boats. But I let the American taxpayer own them.

Probably the most Mustachian approach of all, even with the mandatory dress shoe redundancy.

Oh yeah! Today we broke a $30,000 part. It went crunch in the most delightful way.

Frugalbeach

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Re: Boats
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2020, 07:46:29 AM »
FWIW,  we live in a vacation area near the ocean and intercoastal waterway.  We have many friends and family who own/owned watercraft at one time another (being near the water, of course).  The general feeling we get from them is owning a boat attaches a vacuum hose to your wallet which runs 24/7.  Naturally, we have ZERO desire to own such a leech-like material possession.

GreenEggs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2020, 11:54:19 AM »
FWIW,  we live in a vacation area near the ocean and intercoastal waterway.  We have many friends and family who own/owned watercraft at one time another (being near the water, of course).  The general feeling we get from them is owning a boat attaches a vacuum hose to your wallet which runs 24/7.  Naturally, we have ZERO desire to own such a leech-like material possession.


People say that about boats, sports cars, airplanes, vacation homes, kids, etc.


When it comes to boats, I'm sure saltwater boats require a lot more maintenance than freshwater boats do.  Also, expenses are directly proportional to the size of boat.

foghorn

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Re: Boats
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2020, 02:36:50 PM »
"If it flies, floats, or fucks rent it."

The best advice I have ever read about boats (and a couple of other things).

Sailor Sam

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Re: Boats
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2020, 02:52:28 PM »
"If it flies, floats, or fucks rent it."

The best advice I have ever read about boats (and a couple of other things).

Well, if it floats and you rent it, might want to make sure itís a place that gets a USCG (or equivalent) inspection.

As for renting the fucking, THATís the reason we had to have 20 extra courses of ciprofloxacin
 airdropped into the ocean. Betcha I watched every one of the little lads get their first dose stabbed into their glute.

LifeHappens

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Re: Boats
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2020, 10:20:55 AM »
As for renting the fucking, THATís the reason we had to have 20 extra courses of ciprofloxacin
 airdropped into the ocean. Betcha I watched every one of the little lads get their first dose stabbed into their glute.
I love Tales From Sam's Job. And I'm really happy to not have your job :)

Boat owner here. You'll pry my money-hungry, fuel-gulping vessel out of my cold, dead, poor hands. It's one of those things you either understand or you don't.

dragoncar

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Re: Boats
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2020, 01:51:11 PM »


As for renting the fucking, THATís the reason we had to have 20 extra courses of ciprofloxacin
 airdropped into the ocean.

I know you guys love boats but youíre not supposed to fuck the ocean.  You donít know where itís been!

ixtap

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Re: Boats
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2020, 01:54:13 PM »


As for renting the fucking, THATís the reason we had to have 20 extra courses of ciprofloxacin
 airdropped into the ocean.

I know you guys love boats but youíre not supposed to fuck the ocean.  You donít know where itís been!

Are we trying to make every topic about dinosaur pee?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Boats
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2020, 03:39:42 PM »


As for renting the fucking, THATís the reason we had to have 20 extra courses of ciprofloxacin
 airdropped into the ocean.

I know you guys love boats but youíre not supposed to fuck the ocean.  You donít know where itís been!

It's been everywhere, man.

One Noisy Cat

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Re: Boats
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2020, 05:09:57 PM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

ixtap

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Re: Boats
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2020, 05:24:26 PM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

Only people who don't like their boats say that. I cried when we sold our first boat.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Boats
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2020, 07:22:00 PM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

Only people who don't like their boats say that. I cried when we sold our first boat.

There's a reason we have not sold our first boat, 28 years later (OMG). Still love it. Still pinch ourselves that we own it.

GreenEggs

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Re: Boats
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2020, 07:40:10 PM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.




So, their boat gave them the two happiest days of their life.  See, boats are wonderful.  Everyone should experience that kind of happiness! 


:)

dignam

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Re: Boats
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2020, 07:11:07 AM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

Beat me to it.

I love boating as much as the next guy.  That's why I make friend with people who already own boats, because I am not taking on that hassle/money pit.  Plus, in southern Wisconsin we get 3, maybe 4 months of good boating weather.  6 if you like to fish.

One thing I like to do is sit at a busy boat launch and watch the chaos during really busy weekends.  Or the scramble to get off the lake as a thunderstorm rolls in.  Man, I've had to launch at busy ramps and will avoid that if at all possible.  Or, again, go with a friend and help him launch.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 07:13:24 AM by dignam »

ender

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Re: Boats
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2020, 07:15:57 AM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

Eh. This is true if your boat experience is "buy boat, use it once or twice a year." If you use it frequently it's a lot more worthwhile to have a boat.

My inlaws spent 6-8 weeks at their cabin every summer for 20 years. Their two boats made that a hugely rewarding and great family experience and one I'm glad to take part in as well.

Pretty much everyone I've known who has had a boat has gotten days upon days of enjoyment out of them. But I don't know many casual boat owners who just buy a boat because it makes their neighbors think they are cool to see them with a boat in the garage/driveway.

dignam

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Re: Boats
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2020, 07:24:31 AM »
As one boat owner once told me, the two happiest days when you own a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell 8t.

Eh. This is true if your boat experience is "buy boat, use it once or twice a year." If you use it frequently it's a lot more worthwhile to have a boat.

My inlaws spent 6-8 weeks at their cabin every summer for 20 years. Their two boats made that a hugely rewarding and great family experience and one I'm glad to take part in as well.

Pretty much everyone I've known who has had a boat has gotten days upon days of enjoyment out of them. But I don't know many casual boat owners who just buy a boat because it makes their neighbors think they are cool to see them with a boat in the garage/driveway.

Yes there are exceptions.  My parents own a cabin in the northwoods on a lake and we leave a pontoon docked most of the year.  It gets launched exactly one time per year, after the thaw.  In that somewhat rare scenario, it's nice to have a boat.  We just leave the key in it and the neighbors use it when they want to as well.  I use it once or twice a year.

Just Joe

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Re: Boats
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2020, 09:57:36 AM »
Dang - I would happily maintain your boat for the opportunity to use it occasionally.

dragoncar

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Re: Boats
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2020, 11:24:01 PM »

PDXTabs

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Sugaree

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Re: Boats
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2020, 04:35:21 AM »
My fundamental rule with watercraft is never-ever-ever own anything with an engine that goes on the water.

Growing up, my family had a sailboat and close friends of mine had a cabin cruiser. For every time my friends' boat went out, my family's boat probably went out 20-30 times. Engine issues seemed to be a constant problem for the cabin cruiser. It also didn't help that fuel at the gas dock is pricey, and their boat got 1-2 mpg.

Even on the sailboat, the little 10 hp outboard engine was one of the biggest sources of problems, and by the time my folks upgraded to an even bigger sailboat they had amassed collection of four outboards in various states of serviceability. A single set of sails lasted the 30+ years they owned the boat.


We kind of inherited a sailboat from my FIL.  He wasn't using it and, at the time, we had the time to drive two hours each way to the marina on a regular basis.  It's a 30' Pearson with an Atomic 4 inboard.  From ripped sails to rebuilt engine to wasps in the sail covers it seems like we always did more work than play with it.  It's even worse now that we have a kid and jobs and just don't make the time to make that drive every week.  I wish we could bring it closer.

We got a great deal on a 24' cruiser from an acquaintance who was having a bit of trouble with the IRS.  But then a tornado dropped a tree on it.  Luckily we had less than $2000 in the boat and were able to recoup most of that by selling the engine out of it since it had been retrofitted with that Ford 5.0 marine grade engine.