Author Topic: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government  (Read 6206 times)

The_Captain

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Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« on: June 04, 2013, 08:03:19 AM »
Saw this earlier on reddit, thought you guys would be amused/outraged. Video is linked at the bottom of the article, but this has a couple of quotes from the video.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wsj-on-citi-bikes-2013-6

As someone who lives in Toronto under Rob "stop the war on the car" Ford I wish we had a mayor with the foresight of Bloomberg.

martynthewolf

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2013, 08:42:39 AM »
Wow, I had to turn off halfway through, she just came across as batshit crazy. I can't take people seriously when they are so full of hyperbole, especially when they claim to be for "the majority".

Chris

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2013, 08:56:15 AM »
Wow, I had to turn off halfway through, she just came across as batshit crazy.

Oh, then you probably missed the "powerful bike lobby" comment (my personal fav) (-:

matchewed

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2013, 09:02:54 AM »
What does the lobby provide free bicycle chain lube to government workers?

menorman

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2013, 10:16:32 AM »
Wow, I had to turn off halfway through, she just came across as batshit crazy. I can't take people seriously when they are so full of hyperbole, especially when they claim to be for "the majority".
Yea, I forced myself to sit through her mindless drivel in its entirety and boy let me tell you, it never got better. The worst part about it is that she clearly hasn't seen any stats as of late. If they want to keep attracting young people to NYC, they should realize that we don't want to drive.

Jamesqf

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2013, 11:43:10 AM »
If they want to keep attracting young people to NYC, they should realize that we don't want to drive.

Why would "they" want to keep attracting people to NYC, when it's struggling to handle its current population?  And would any sane person, young, old, or in between, want to drive in NYC?

GuitarStv

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2013, 07:21:04 AM »
As someone who lives in Toronto under Rob "stop the war on the car" Ford I wish we had a mayor with the foresight of Bloomberg.

God I hate Ford.  That man is the epitome of waste and short sightedness.

Joet

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2013, 01:57:09 PM »
It's pretty common really, behind all the oversized anger is an element of truth. Lets not forget this is a pulitzer winner AND holocaust survivor sitting there. Imagine for a minute... even though quite conservative... that she is speaking some elements of truth. And I agree with her on many points.

Have you seen how the bike messengers behave in traffic in NYC or SF? It's more than a little crazy. The wonton disregard of traffic laws---true. Flying around on sidewalks--true.

All this stuff about some autocratic bike lobby commu-topia stuff I just take as her political attack against Bloomberg. Really I'd like to talk about the soda/trans fat thing but I digress.

In any event if cyclists want to be taken seriously and earn respect and not die so frequently on the roadways they need to learn to behave and stop acting like such jackasses. Those of you not in that camp I applaud you but are you also scolding your fellow cyclers when you see them acting like jackasses? I encourage you to, it will be good for all of us. Next time you see somebody flying through an intersection against traffic going the wrong way through a light give him a holler. I'm not saying cagers/motorists arent also jackasses. But I'm not sure a race-to-the-bottom solves anything.


Reepekg

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2013, 02:18:19 PM »
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. If NYC is anything like Copenhagen, these bikes will all be mysteriously missing within a year.

matchewed

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2013, 02:30:00 PM »
It's pretty common really, behind all the oversized anger is an element of truth. Lets not forget this is a pulitzer winner AND holocaust survivor sitting there. Imagine for a minute... even though quite conservative... that she is speaking some elements of truth. And I agree with her on many points.

Have you seen how the bike messengers behave in traffic in NYC or SF? It's more than a little crazy. The wonton disregard of traffic laws---true. Flying around on sidewalks--true.

All this stuff about some autocratic bike lobby commu-topia stuff I just take as her political attack against Bloomberg. Really I'd like to talk about the soda/trans fat thing but I digress.

In any event if cyclists want to be taken seriously and earn respect and not die so frequently on the roadways they need to learn to behave and stop acting like such jackasses. Those of you not in that camp I applaud you but are you also scolding your fellow cyclers when you see them acting like jackasses? I encourage you to, it will be good for all of us. Next time you see somebody flying through an intersection against traffic going the wrong way through a light give him a holler. I'm not saying cagers/motorists arent also jackasses. But I'm not sure a race-to-the-bottom solves anything.

If only there was some data on bicycle related deaths in NYC. Now where did I put that google? Ah there it is - http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicyclefatalities.pdf

Page 8 and 9 where we see there is no race to the bottom and this is mostly perception related rather than data driven. I'm not against yelling at people who do stupid things but this is not an argument which supports the elements of truth you seem to see. If bicyclist deaths are evidence that the bike sharing program is a terrible idea then we should get rid of taxis, buses, and cars in NYC. Wait that would be totalitarian, enabling a populace to bike instead of drive and giving them the choice either would not be... weird how that works.

Joet

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 02:42:34 PM »
If you want to make any progress, you have to acknowledge countering viewpoints. I'm not sure how many cyclist deaths you found, nor am I aware if there was any fault assigned to the cyclist in any of those. Certainly passenger vehicles have a lot of deaths and so too do pedestrians. It's a straw argument to suggest I'm in favor of banning pedestrian-ism. I'm just saying this is a bright, articulate woman even though it sounds like she is completely full of caca and really having a (let them eat cake) moment. All that aside if we want a bike culture movement to succeed in this country we have to acknowledge vehicles on the roadway and compromise a bit.

Not to derail the thread but I think the various 'critical mass' movements (my city participates as well) where cyclists have an impromptu rolling city blockade... are counter productive. We have to figure out how to get along. Cagers will be cagers. Cyclists will cycle. A couple of deaths isnt a lot and certainly doesnt condemn the movement.

I just think it is important to acknowledge this point of view. I have bike commuted for over a decade and I've been on the receiving end of road ragers multiple times even though in my opinion I was doing 'nothing' wrong. Such as taking a lane where it was necessary for my safety.


From your article, for the 1996-2005 period:
Quote
Nearly all (94%) fatalities involved poor driving or bicycle riding practices, particularly driver inattention and
disregarding traffic signals and signs.
Now back to your argument
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 02:44:24 PM by Joet »

matchewed

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2013, 02:48:05 PM »
My point was that you start with lauding the author. Then proceed to suggest that there is a nugget of truth in that heap of crazy. And that you agree with her on several points. Then you go on to say that bikes kill people.

Tacit in the above is that you believe that one of her points is that bikes kill people and they do, but not as much as cars do. So why is that a reason that she is right?

Joet

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2013, 02:57:53 PM »
Can you deconstruct this sentence to marry your claim that I said 'bikes kill people' please?
Quote
In any event if cyclists want to be taken seriously and earn respect and not die so frequently on the roadways they need to learn to behave and stop acting like such jackasses.

I'll take my answer off the air. And while this is (yet another) a straw argument, bikes have been known to kill people. An elderly man was struck in the crosswalk by a cyclist earlier this year and died of his injuries. Very sad. I file the cyclist firmly under the 'jackass cyclist' category.

Thats ok though---I dont expect anyone here to acknowledge that cyclists are part of the problem and that there are in fact elements of truth to her rant. Theres far more crazy than not in there.

She's right because at least 50% of her point was that cyclists act like jackasses. Look around if you dont believe me.

mpbaker22

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2013, 03:04:36 PM »
In any event if cyclists want to be taken seriously and earn respect and not die so frequently on the roadways they need to learn to behave and stop acting like such jackasses. Those of you not in that camp I applaud you but are you also scolding your fellow cyclers when you see them acting like jackasses? I encourage you to, it will be good for all of us. Next time you see somebody flying through an intersection against traffic going the wrong way through a light give him a holler. I'm not saying cagers/motorists arent also jackasses. But I'm not sure a race-to-the-bottom solves anything.

I routinely honk at idiot bicycle riders(I refuse to call them cyclists) when I'm in my car.  Unfortunately, they all mistake me for another anti-cyclist driver as opposed to a safe cyclist.  An example is the cyclist who ran a stop sign at full speed while I was going through the intersection.  Or, my favorite, the cyclist who jumped off the sidewalk in front of me and threw his hand up in the air in response to my honk.

matchewed

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2013, 03:22:38 PM »
In my original post I stated that I believe in yelling at people who do stupid things that goes for bicyclists, drivers, and pedestrians. I've acknowledged points. I do believe that bicyclists should be following the local laws and that ignorance of them will not be an excuse and they should be ticketed for the activities. But any sane bicyclist who follows those rules will believe the same.

My question is why is any of what she said a reason for this to be a bad idea?

Actually from the pdf I linked the number of bicyclists in NYC has been going up while injuries have been going down and fatalities somewhat flat. If all you want from me is to acknowledge that bicyclists can get hurt or killed from their own damn fault then I admit it because it's fact. It doesn't mean I have to agree with what some crazy lady's take on bicycle infrastructure and the supporting of it in NYC.

Joet

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 03:30:41 PM »
no of course not, she went full retard (never go full retard). all I'm saying... buried deeply in her class-warfare/conservative ivory tower position were *some* nuggets of truth. The end. It sounds like we are in 95% agreement on this lol

also on a sidenote/tangent I will agree that the 'city bike' program is a wonderful case study on "why we cant have nice things" more or less. A parable not unlike the 'tragedy of the commons' perhaps.

I've seen various city bikes in places like copenhagen, london, melbourne, etc and while you might think that the typical theft/damage/destruction would be identical in all these places that couldnt be further from the truth.

In London the bikes are all pristine and perfect and narry a reflector is out of place. I dont think anyone rides them!

In Copenhagen the bikes are all missing/absconded/dead by the end of summer. I think theres a racket going on with theft also. But the bikes are usueable and nice all year long. I believe they get replaced/refurbed every year. You'll see hordes of them flying around constantly. These are in the well-loved category no doubt.

Melbourne is somewhere in the middle.

In NYC I suspect you'll be able to trade a hot 'citi bike' for meth or crack. lol!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 03:35:55 PM by Joet »

matchewed

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 03:34:20 PM »
Most discussions are that way. Not usually internet discussions but most discussions.

MgoSam

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2013, 03:49:50 PM »
no of course not, she went full retard (never go full retard).

That sir, just made my afternoon!

sheepstache

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Re: Bikeshare programs work of totalitarian government
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2013, 08:16:32 PM »
For those of you who enjoy Venn diagrams:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/venn-diagram-why-conservatives-hate-citi-bike.html

Also quotes a different crazy lady who referred to our fair city's transportation chief as a "Muslim Nazi collaborator’s granddaughter" who in "partial revenge ... made many New York streets nearly as impassable as those of her grandfather’s wartime Dresden."