Author Topic: Bigger SUVs and pickups are outgrowing home garages, public parking spaces!  (Read 10152 times)

ducky19

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Saw this gem on USA Today yesterday. It blows my mind that people feel the need for such big vehicles. The one woman they interviewed who has a 2019 F150 states, ďMy truck is really big,Ē she said. ďTrying to maneuver into a space totally sucks. If you go to the mall and itís really crowded, looking for a spot is a huge factor. I really have to spend time searching.Ē I feel really sorry for her...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2020/03/05/suvs-pickups-trucks-garages-parking/4904811002/

And while a 2019 F150 regular cab can be had for around $25,000 right now at our local Ford dealer, the cheapest crew cab (what the picture shows she has) they have is $35,000 and goes up quickly from there to nearly $70,000... I just don't get it!

ixtap

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Two people on FB confirmed this recently, but one of them bought a 2014 model that didn't fit. What I don't get is how this isn't something you check before you hand over your money?

Raenia

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One of my neighbors parks across the sidewalk because their massive SUV doesn't fit in their garage, but they still want to use 'their' space.  Technically illegal, but they haven't been ticketed.  Really annoying to pedestrians; since the vehicle is so long, they have to park it within an inch of the garage door to get the rear end out of the traffic lane, which means pedestrians have to walk out into the street to get around it.

Fishindude

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Builders and developers are required to provide XX number of parking spaces on their plans to get approval before building a project, so in order to maximize the number of parking spaces, they lay them out to fit compact cars with spaces approx. 8' x 16', and they also make the aisles between rows accordingly narrow.   They often don't truly have enough real estate to do what they intend, so they crowd the parking to make it work and get approval.

Full size trucks and SUV's could really use approx. 10' x 20', but you don't often see these size spaces.    It's really kind of crazy, because full size SUV's and pickups represent a fairly large sector of the automobile population. 

Kazyan

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Two people on FB confirmed this recently, but one of them bought a 2014 model that didn't fit. What I don't get is how this isn't something you check before you hand over your money?

I imagine this is something no one would have thought to check before now, honestly.

ixtap

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Two people on FB confirmed this recently, but one of them bought a 2014 model that didn't fit. What I don't get is how this isn't something you check before you hand over your money?

I imagine this is something no one would have thought to check before now, honestly.

I guess I have just had more garage issues than most. Even a moderate vehicle can be an issue at weird angles.

My pet peeves is backing up to a side walk so that you don't overhang into the driving area. Then there is a hitch at shin level half way across the sidewalk.

ChickenStash

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I recall when I was house hunting a few years back in a newish starter-home development that the 2-car garages were extremely small. I'm a mid-size coupe/sedan person and would have had trouble parking 2 cars in there and being able to get in/out of them without some serious gymnastics. The realtor commented that they'd lost more than a few potential buyers because there was no way to fit the normal SUV/pickups that most people have. Too bad, the houses were quite nice and well appointed for the modest size that I wanted.

bigblock440

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.

Here4theGB

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.
Actually, vehicles continue to grow in size.  GM made the Tahoe and Suburban bigger for 2021 for example.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90442100/gms-new-2021-chevy-suburban-suvs-might-actually-be-bigger-than-your-bedroom

bigblock440

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.
Actually, vehicles continue to grow in size.  GM made the Tahoe and Suburban bigger for 2021 for example.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90442100/gms-new-2021-chevy-suburban-suvs-might-actually-be-bigger-than-your-bedroom

I don't know where they're getting half a foot from, the 2021's are 225.7" long, with the 2015-2020 at 224.4".  That's Cadillac sedan territory.  The wheelbase is 4" longer on the new model, but that just reduces overhangs.  Maybe if they're comparing to a 1970's+ model at 219.1" you'll get the extra half-foot.  So in 50 years, it grew 6" in length, 1.5" in width (79.6 to 81.1) and lost 0.4" in height (76.1" to 75.7").  Not much bigger, especially going back to the pickup truck thing, when they were regularly sold in lengths up to 250".  The article's a couple decades late.  The only difference is that the real small vehicles like the micro cars and S10's don't really exist anymore, but the mid to large sizes haven't grown.

mm1970

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.
My 'hood is mostly houses built in the 1920's (detached garages) or 1940's to 1960's (attached 1 car garages).

The vast majority of single car garages would probably fit either of our cars (Matrix, Civic), but I think most would not fit the cars that are around (pickups, minivans, SUVs).

California, nobody parks in there anyway.  They've all converted them to living space or use them to store junk.  We don't even have a garage, and I think a fair % (10%) of the houses in my 'hood never had them.

acepedro45

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For a while I parked in an apartment complex AND a work parking lot where the spaces were way undersized and could barely fit our subcompact Chevy Cavalier. Both the complex and the work lot were mom-and-pop type places that shoehorned in as many spaces as they possibly could, and then a few more for luck.

When my wife and I would go to the grocery store or mall, we would luxuriate in the massive conventional spaces those places have. I never took out my tape measure, but I'd imagine they corresponded to the  8' x 16' dimensions @Fishindude referred to.

MilesTeg

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.

Full & mid size trucks have grown significantly (though not hugely) compared to comparable models of the past, but more importantly the prevalence of 4 door trucks is much higher today, making the average full size truck on the road several feel longer.


bigblock440

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.

Full & mid size trucks have grown significantly (though not hugely) compared to comparable models of the past, but more importantly the prevalence of 4 door trucks is much higher today, making the average full size truck on the road several feel longer.

4 doors, but 5 foot beds.  Trucks used to have 8 foot beds.  The only thing that's not really available is the short bed single cab, 2wd, but average length is about the same.  Vehicles do have bigger wheel and tire packages which makes them look bigger, but the box they fit in hasn't changed.  2wd trucks also used to be lower, but now are more or less the same height as the 4wd, so the average height might be a bit higher, but at the top end it's unchanged. Also, the air dams on the front and bodywork is brought lower, making them visually bigger, but again, not physically bigger.




Not There Yet

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4 doors, but 5 foot beds.  Trucks used to have 8 foot beds.

This is what gets me.  They're basically big, ugly luxury sedans with a decorative bed tacked on the back.  What good is a truck that can't haul a load of sheetrock?

I live in the desert.  It amazes me that my neighbors spend $60,000 (or $70,000 or $80,000) on a truck to commute to the office and then let it dry rot in the driveway because it won't fit in the garage (which, of course, is full of junk they never use).

Fomerly known as something

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Two people on FB confirmed this recently, but one of them bought a 2014 model that didn't fit. What I don't get is how this isn't something you check before you hand over your money?

I imagine this is something no one would have thought to check before now, honestly.

Parking large vehicles is something that my work has exposed me too so it was something I thought about when buying my last car #lessonsfromparkingasuburbaninNYC.

LennStar

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I am quite sure the average German parking space is shorter than the F150, and does not have a lot more width.

Seriously, I can't understand for the life of me why people want to drive those cars with a manouverability of a pregnant cow.


damyst

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One of my neighbors parks across the sidewalk because their massive SUV doesn't fit in their garage, but they still want to use 'their' space.  Technically illegal, but they haven't been ticketed.  Really annoying to pedestrians; since the vehicle is so long, they have to park it within an inch of the garage door to get the rear end out of the traffic lane, which means pedestrians have to walk out into the street to get around it.

That's not only a douche move, but hopefully illegal pretty much everywhere. Trying this stunt where I live would get you towed faster than you can say "traffic hazard". But we do take our sidewalks very very seriously.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 06:42:29 AM by damyst »

former player

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Standard parking place size in the UK is 2.4m x 4.8m.  That's 7'10" x 15'9" or 94" x 189".  It's fine for most of the vehicles on the roads here, but there is a newish tendency for some people to buy larger and larger, particularly SUVs and those stupid crew-cab pickups, both of which are anti-social and of limited use because of their size.  Streets and lanes which were well established 700 years ago or more aren't magically going to get any wider.

Fishindude

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Standard parking place size in the UK is 2.4m x 4.8m.  That's 7'10" x 15'9" or 94" x 189".  It's fine for most of the vehicles on the roads here, but there is a newish tendency for some people to buy larger and larger, particularly SUVs and those stupid crew-cab pickups, both of which are anti-social and of limited use because of their size.  Streets and lanes which were well established 700 years ago or more aren't magically going to get any wider.

I'm just curious what makes an SUV or crew cab pick up "anti social"?
"Of limited use" doesn't make much sense either?

former player

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Standard parking place size in the UK is 2.4m x 4.8m.  That's 7'10" x 15'9" or 94" x 189".  It's fine for most of the vehicles on the roads here, but there is a newish tendency for some people to buy larger and larger, particularly SUVs and those stupid crew-cab pickups, both of which are anti-social and of limited use because of their size.  Streets and lanes which were well established 700 years ago or more aren't magically going to get any wider.

I'm just curious what makes an SUV or crew cab pick up "anti social"?
"Of limited use" doesn't make much sense either?
"Anti-social" because the drivers are putting on the roads and in our (limited) parking places a vehicle which takes up more space than the roads and parking spaces are designed for, forcing other cars out of the way or preventing convenient use of neighbouring parking spaces.

"Of limited use" because they cannot conveniently be parked in a significant number of parking places and are difficult to manoeuvre down our ancient lanes and narrow driveways.

Yes, I do live in a landscape that has been inhabited for several thousand years and in which nearly every road was created before the age of the internal combustion engine.  People who spend large amounts of money on status-symbol vehicles that have no conceivable practical benefit over a modest runabout are anti-social idiots.

MilesTeg

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4 doors, but 5 foot beds.  Trucks used to have 8 foot beds.

This is what gets me.  They're basically big, ugly luxury sedans with a decorative bed tacked on the back.  What good is a truck that can't haul a load of sheetrock?


I always marvel at folks that fixate on one particular use of a truck and get all worked up about it. A truck bed has vastly more uses than loading large dimension solid objects. Not to mention its not even remotely the case that the only use for a truck is putting stuff in the bed...

MilesTeg

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Article about nothing really, recent trucks/SUVs/CUVs aren't any bigger than in the past, people have been buying full-size trucks and SUVs for decades.  Ford's full-size has been the best selling vehicle in America for almost 40 years, with Chevy, GMC, and Dodge not terribly far behind for most of that run.  I remember my dad complaining about parking spaces being too small for trucks "these days", and that was 20+ years ago.  My 1970's coupe doesn't fit into the garage of my 1960's built house (technically it probably could with 2 inches to spare).  They're about 3 decades late with the article.

Full & mid size trucks have grown significantly (though not hugely) compared to comparable models of the past, but more importantly the prevalence of 4 door trucks is much higher today, making the average full size truck on the road several feel longer.

4 doors, but 5 foot beds.  Trucks used to have 8 foot beds.  The only thing that's not really available is the short bed single cab, 2wd, but average length is about the same.  Vehicles do have bigger wheel and tire packages which makes them look bigger, but the box they fit in hasn't changed.  2wd trucks also used to be lower, but now are more or less the same height as the 4wd, so the average height might be a bit higher, but at the top end it's unchanged. Also, the air dams on the front and bodywork is brought lower, making them visually bigger, but again, not physically bigger.




8 foot beds have never been very common. They fit a need that only some truck users need (typically only professionals who need to haul lumber frequently). The most common bed size has always been 6' +/-.

Today it's 5'6" or 6'6"- aka pretty much the same. 8' beds are still typically only on seen on trucks used by people that need to haul lumber a lot.

But today a 4 door 5'6"box or 6'6" box truck is longer than a standard cab 8' bed of yore, and that 4 door config is pretty much the standard these days whereas 2 for 6' box was the most common in days of yore.

The_Big_H

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

facepalm

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Standard parking place size in the UK is 2.4m x 4.8m.  That's 7'10" x 15'9" or 94" x 189".  It's fine for most of the vehicles on the roads here, but there is a newish tendency for some people to buy larger and larger, particularly SUVs and those stupid crew-cab pickups, both of which are anti-social and of limited use because of their size.  Streets and lanes which were well established 700 years ago or more aren't magically going to get any wider.

I'm just curious what makes an SUV or crew cab pick up "anti social"?
"Of limited use" doesn't make much sense either?
"Anti-social" because the drivers are putting on the roads and in our (limited) parking places a vehicle which takes up more space than the roads and parking spaces are designed for, forcing other cars out of the way or preventing convenient use of neighbouring parking spaces.

"Of limited use" because they cannot conveniently be parked in a significant number of parking places and are difficult to manoeuvre down our ancient lanes and narrow driveways.

Yes, I do live in a landscape that has been inhabited for several thousand years and in which nearly every road was created before the age of the internal combustion engine.  People who spend large amounts of money on status-symbol vehicles that have no conceivable practical benefit over a modest runabout are anti-social idiots.

As a motorcycle rider, I find all car drivers to be anti-social.

Fishindude

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

Sheesh !   How thoughtful.
This would also impact the cost of just about everything you buy, as most items come in on a truck.

bigblock440

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8 foot beds have never been very common. They fit a need that only some truck users need (typically only professionals who need to haul lumber frequently). The most common bed size has always been 6' +/-.

Today it's 5'6" or 6'6"- aka pretty much the same. 8' beds are still typically only on seen on trucks used by people that need to haul lumber a lot.

But today a 4 door 5'6"box or 6'6" box truck is longer than a standard cab 8' bed of yore, and that 4 door config is pretty much the standard these days whereas 2 for 6' box was the most common in days of yore.

8 foot beds used to be standard, literally called a standard bed.  The 6' used to be called a "short bed".  Full-size trucks of course (since we're talking large vehicles).  I'm basing that on my experience with "old trucks" from the 60's through the 90's.  The 30's-50's trucks aren't all that common, so I wasn't considering them in my "always used to be"s, nor was I considering the compact trucks since they no longer really exist.

six-car-habit

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  5 foot 6 inch bed , plus another 1 foot 6 inches when the tailgate is laid down [ maybe more ] = 7 feet.  Standard sheetrock is 8 feet long, overhangs by 1 foot. I don't see the problem.  Hang/tape a flag on it, so you're following local driving laws.

  Also many trucks come with a hitch standard now . Buy a steel "bed extender " made of square tube that goes into the hitch, for about $125 , and then you have another 4 foot wide "platform", hanging off the back of the truck about 4 feet out, to support the weight of long items , and tie them down to. Both Northern Tool and Harbor Freight sell them.

Just Joe

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People need to buy the right tool for their needs. I can buy a lumberjack chainsaw that is five feet long and requires two operators to trim back my Bradford Pear tree or our Dogwood tree but really what I need is a $10 bow-saw that a ten year old Cub Scout can operate. 

Just 'cause a large vehicle makes sense in part of the country where it earns its keep, doesn't make it the right vehicle to drive to Target or WalMart in.

People need to wise up already! Yeah, $6 a gallon gasoline would help right size everything better. 

What works in rural Arkansas does not necessarily work in Atlanta!

MilesTeg

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snip
8 foot beds have never been very common. They fit a need that only some truck users need (typically only professionals who need to haul lumber frequently). The most common bed size has always been 6' +/-.

Today it's 5'6" or 6'6"- aka pretty much the same. 8' beds are still typically only on seen on trucks used by people that need to haul lumber a lot.

But today a 4 door 5'6"box or 6'6" box truck is longer than a standard cab 8' bed of yore, and that 4 door config is pretty much the standard these days whereas 2 for 6' box was the most common in days of yore.

8 foot beds used to be standard, literally called a standard bed.  The 6' used to be called a "short bed".  Full-size trucks of course (since we're talking large vehicles).  I'm basing that on my experience with "old trucks" from the 60's through the 90's.  The 30's-50's trucks aren't all that common, so I wasn't considering them in my "always used to be"s, nor was I considering the compact trucks since they no longer really exist.

We can debate namingnconventions all day long, but the facts are still:

1. 8 ft beds have never been common
2. 8 ft beds accomidate a very narrow use case (typically hauling lumber or fitting a huge camper.
3. There are innumerable other uses for truck beds for which even the super short 5.5ft beds are extremely well suited so the notion that a truck is useless without an 8ft bed is quite silly.
4. Idtiots still shouldn't be buying trucks, no matter the bed size, if they don't have frequent use for one.

bigblock440

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snip
8 foot beds have never been very common. They fit a need that only some truck users need (typically only professionals who need to haul lumber frequently). The most common bed size has always been 6' +/-.

Today it's 5'6" or 6'6"- aka pretty much the same. 8' beds are still typically only on seen on trucks used by people that need to haul lumber a lot.

But today a 4 door 5'6"box or 6'6" box truck is longer than a standard cab 8' bed of yore, and that 4 door config is pretty much the standard these days whereas 2 for 6' box was the most common in days of yore.

8 foot beds used to be standard, literally called a standard bed.  The 6' used to be called a "short bed".  Full-size trucks of course (since we're talking large vehicles).  I'm basing that on my experience with "old trucks" from the 60's through the 90's.  The 30's-50's trucks aren't all that common, so I wasn't considering them in my "always used to be"s, nor was I considering the compact trucks since they no longer really exist.

We can debate namingnconventions all day long, but the facts are still:

1. 8 ft beds have never been common
2. 8 ft beds accomidate a very narrow use case (typically hauling lumber or fitting a huge camper.
3. There are innumerable other uses for truck beds for which even the super short 5.5ft beds are extremely well suited so the notion that a truck is useless without an 8ft bed is quite silly.
4. Idtiots still shouldn't be buying trucks, no matter the bed size, if they don't have frequent use for one.

1. not fact, 60's-90's 8' beds were much more common than any other size.
2. or carrying more of the things you haul with the shorter beds, with no downside
3. I didn't really see anyone on this thread arguing otherwise
4. I didn't see anyone arguing otherwise

The_Big_H

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

Sheesh !   How thoughtful.
This would also impact the cost of just about everything you buy, as most items come in on a truck.

I don't buy much.  Food? Buy local.  Train/New transport innovation...   $6 gas doesn't seem to hurt Europe?
Bikes are a thing too

Just Joe

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Expensive European gasoline means people buy cars with TINY engines and they choose to live much closer to their destinations. I also see them as owning fewer "toys" per capita like big motorcycles, boats, ATVs, etc.

But really, doubling the cost of gasoline only means a person needs to drive half as much or buy a car with twice the economy - or something in between.

Cadman

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8' truck beds have been the standard for decades; it's only recently that short beds have gotten popular because of the prevalence of quad-cabs. I had actually done some research on this a couple months ago as I spotted a new standard cab, long bed Chevy in the wild and it looked awkward as hell. If you really want to see ungainly, the Tundra is still offered in this config but I've never seen one in the flesh.

IMO, you lose a TON of utility with anything less than full-size, even with the tailgate down (this is where I think the new GMC Multipro tailgate really shines). Then you get the knuckleheads that throw a hard tonneau cover on them (just about everyone in the parking lot here at work) which restricts their usefulness even further. Silly.

Chris22

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.


I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities

RetiredAt63

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.


I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities

Interesting the difference in interpretation.  I took it as $6 gas would encourage people to buy more sensible cars with better gas mileage, not buy huge SUVs/trucks unless they are truly needed, encourage people to have shorter commutes and/or use public transport and bikes.  I'm presently in New Zealand where gas is about $2.10 - $2.30NZ  per LITRE (about $8.60 for a US gallon in US dollars, https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/New-Zealand/gasoline_prices/), and people basically drive 100 on 100/km roads.  Of course the average speed is more like 80, because of all the tight curves on so many roads.  I've seen 25km speed signs here - that is slow, and the curve required slow.

PDXTabs

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.

Every morning I walk to yoga. Every morning I see at least one person run a red light, usually into the cross walk that I have right of way in. This morning it was a truck. I pray for $20 gas and for people to stop driving. I also pray that I live long enough to see it.

Optimiser

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Interesting article on the rise of vehicle weights and some of the reasons behind it: https://thecorrespondent.com/310/your-car-has-a-weight-problem-and-we-need-to-regulate-it/41009665950-d1c675d3

zolotiyeruki

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I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities
I would like to propose an alternative to the pickup truck, based on that list:  the humble minivan.
--Inexpensive to buy: you can get a Honda Odyssey with <100,000 miles for under $5k
--Cheap to run/efficient:  we get 25+mpg on the highway.  Newer models are close to 30.
--Durable:  Ours is closing in on 200,000 miles.  Besides regular maintenance, it's needed an alternator and starter in the last year.  That's it.
--Useful for many different tasks:  My minivan can carry 8 people, plus their luggage, plus food for a road trip.  Or, I can fold down/remove the seats and fit 8' 2x4's without batting an eye.  Or 10' 2x4's with slightly more effort.  Or 12' 2x4's in limited quantity.  With all the doors closed.  I once fit a whole bunk of 2x4's in our minivan, with the door closed.  That's just shy of 300 2x4's.  Ok, so I was riding on the stops nice and slow all the way home, but still.
--Truck ownership/DIY:  I'm almost done finishing our basement.  Guess what vehicle I used to transport all the lumber!

Chris22

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I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities
I would like to propose an alternative to the pickup truck, based on that list:  the humble minivan.
--Inexpensive to buy: you can get a Honda Odyssey with <100,000 miles for under $5k
--Cheap to run/efficient:  we get 25+mpg on the highway.  Newer models are close to 30.
--Durable:  Ours is closing in on 200,000 miles.  Besides regular maintenance, it's needed an alternator and starter in the last year.  That's it.
--Useful for many different tasks:  My minivan can carry 8 people, plus their luggage, plus food for a road trip.  Or, I can fold down/remove the seats and fit 8' 2x4's without batting an eye.  Or 10' 2x4's with slightly more effort.  Or 12' 2x4's in limited quantity.  With all the doors closed.  I once fit a whole bunk of 2x4's in our minivan, with the door closed.  That's just shy of 300 2x4's.  Ok, so I was riding on the stops nice and slow all the way home, but still.
--Truck ownership/DIY:  I'm almost done finishing our basement.  Guess what vehicle I used to transport all the lumber!

So aside from the minimal increase in gas mileage, why do you care if someone buys a minivan over a truck or not?  What bearing does it have on your life?

Iím legitimately trying to understand why people are so invested in how other people spend money. I understand the environmental thing, but there difference here is negligible. So what is it?

nick663

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I recall when I was house hunting a few years back in a newish starter-home development that the 2-car garages were extremely small. I'm a mid-size coupe/sedan person and would have had trouble parking 2 cars in there and being able to get in/out of them without some serious gymnastics. The realtor commented that they'd lost more than a few potential buyers because there was no way to fit the normal SUV/pickups that most people have. Too bad, the houses were quite nice and well appointed for the modest size that I wanted.
When we were house shopping we looked at a house that had a Ford Escape in the garage.  2" from the front wall and 2" from the garage door.  Instant pass.

AccidentialMustache

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So aside from the minimal increase in gas mileage, why do you care if someone buys a minivan over a truck or not?  What bearing does it have on your life?

Iím legitimately trying to understand why people are so invested in how other people spend money. I understand the environmental thing, but there difference here is negligible. So what is it?

Trucks > minivans > cars in terms of danger to pedestrian and bicyclists. That's more than enough by itself.

The_Big_H

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.


I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities

lol, every car will become worth $0 at some point, they ALL depreciate given enough time.
they are NOT cheap to run, its been proven by MMM himself... everything on them is more expensive.  A $70,000 truck goes the same 200,000 miles as two $5,000 cars with 100,000 miles on them each.  That right there is 30 cents a mile cost to drive in depreciation difference alone from Mustachian level car ownership (and those truck repairs will be much more pricey, even if fewer)
fuel efficient?  really, compared to what?  Not to a 25-35mpg mid-size car, which you can fit a lot of shit in.  and on the super rare occasion one legitimately needs a truck it can be rented (buy the car that suits 95% of your car needs, not 5%).
DIY?  Around where I live and work I see its mostly white collar dudes (who cant park the thing into our compact car parking spots) who still hire out to have everything in their house (you can tell when their contractor shows up in the NON- lookatme pickemup truck, the molly maid too)

So, am I bitter?  Maybe... They do present an outsize hazard to other road users (cyclist and pedestrians and regular cars) because they are quite huge, hard to see directly over, large blind spots.  They wear out the road quicker, they pollute the air faster that I breathe.  So they very do much "impact me" more so than regular clown car use. $6 gas is a sufficient level, with taxes, to account for the actual societal cost of that gallon of gas (it could arguably be more).

Then, just maybe then, we can get something besides car-first-car-only transportation policy in 98% of North America.

The_Big_H

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.

Every morning I walk to yoga. Every morning I see at least one person run a red light, usually into the cross walk that I have right of way in. This morning it was a truck. I pray for $20 gas and for people to stop driving. I also pray that I live long enough to see it.

Later down the road they'll yell at the cyclist to "follow the rules of the road!!1"

zolotiyeruki

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So aside from the minimal increase in gas mileage, why do you care if someone buys a minivan over a truck or not?  What bearing does it have on your life?

Iím legitimately trying to understand why people are so invested in how other people spend money. I understand the environmental thing, but there difference here is negligible. So what is it?
Poking fun at other people's spending is a major point of the MMM forums, and of this subforum In particular. Do I care what you drive? Not really, no. I'm merely suggesting an alternative, and explaining why it's an attractive option .

Kyle Schuant

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Full size trucks and SUV's could really use approx. 10' x 20', but you don't often see these size spaces.    It's really kind of crazy, because full size SUV's and pickups represent a fairly large sector of the automobile population. 
Which they should not.

Turnbull

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8' truck beds have been the standard for decades; it's only recently that short beds have gotten popular because of the prevalence of quad-cabs. I had actually done some research on this a couple months ago as I spotted a new standard cab, long bed Chevy in the wild and it looked awkward as hell. If you really want to see ungainly, the Tundra is still offered in this config but I've never seen one in the flesh.

IMO, you lose a TON of utility with anything less than full-size, even with the tailgate down (this is where I think the new GMC Multipro tailgate really shines). Then you get the knuckleheads that throw a hard tonneau cover on them (just about everyone in the parking lot here at work) which restricts their usefulness even further. Silly.


A few years ago I bought a 2006 Tundra because that was the last year they offered the long bed with the six speed stick. I think I paid $4800 and I couldn't be happier with it. I live on ten acres with an orchard in a rural area and use that long bed all the time.

Cadman

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8' truck beds have been the standard for decades; it's only recently that short beds have gotten popular because of the prevalence of quad-cabs. I had actually done some research on this a couple months ago as I spotted a new standard cab, long bed Chevy in the wild and it looked awkward as hell. If you really want to see ungainly, the Tundra is still offered in this config but I've never seen one in the flesh.

IMO, you lose a TON of utility with anything less than full-size, even with the tailgate down (this is where I think the new GMC Multipro tailgate really shines). Then you get the knuckleheads that throw a hard tonneau cover on them (just about everyone in the parking lot here at work) which restricts their usefulness even further. Silly.


A few years ago I bought a 2006 Tundra because that was the last year they offered the long bed with the six speed stick. I think I paid $4800 and I couldn't be happier with it. I live on ten acres with an orchard in a rural area and use that long bed all the time.

Turnbull, I think you might have a collector's item on your hands. I didn't realize Toyota ceased production of those in '18. According to one article, out of 43,800 sold in 2017, only 175 were long-box.

I tip my hat to a guy where I work...in a sea of fancy-pants King Ranches and Denalis, he ordered himself a new Chevy truck. Standard cab, long box, painted bumpers, cloth seats and crank windows. Bet it's got vinyl floormats, too.

Chris22

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God I pray for $6 a gallon gas to teach these fools a lesson.
Sadly it seems to all be going the wrong way.

It must be a miserable way to go through life, hoping for othersí misfortune for the grave sin of doing something you donít agree with.


I know being anti-truck is one of the 10 commandments around here, but in a lot of ways a truck is a pretty thrifty purchase:

-expensive to buy but hold their value well
-cheap to run compared with other vehicles in the price class
-much more fuel efficient than they used to be
-extremely durable, they last a long long time
-useful for many different tasks
-high correlation between truck ownership and DIY activities

lol, every car will become worth $0 at some point, they ALL depreciate given enough time.
they are NOT cheap to run, its been proven by MMM himself... everything on them is more expensive.  A $70,000 truck goes the same 200,000 miles as two $5,000 cars with 100,000 miles on them each.  That right there is 30 cents a mile cost to drive in depreciation difference alone from Mustachian level car ownership (and those truck repairs will be much more pricey, even if fewer)
fuel efficient?  really, compared to what?  Not to a 25-35mpg mid-size car, which you can fit a lot of shit in.  and on the super rare occasion one legitimately needs a truck it can be rented (buy the car that suits 95% of your car needs, not 5%).
DIY?  Around where I live and work I see its mostly white collar dudes (who cant park the thing into our compact car parking spots) who still hire out to have everything in their house (you can tell when their contractor shows up in the NON- lookatme pickemup truck, the molly maid too)

So, am I bitter?  Maybe... They do present an outsize hazard to other road users (cyclist and pedestrians and regular cars) because they are quite huge, hard to see directly over, large blind spots.  They wear out the road quicker, they pollute the air faster that I breathe.  So they very do much "impact me" more so than regular clown car use. $6 gas is a sufficient level, with taxes, to account for the actual societal cost of that gallon of gas (it could arguably be more).

Then, just maybe then, we can get something besides car-first-car-only transportation policy in 98% of North America.

They donít do any of the bolded appreciably more than the suggested minivan. If you canít see around one you canít see around the other. Trucks donít get significantly worse gas mileage. And the road damage done by a 6k lb truck is negligible compared to a 4-5k lb car in a world where we have 40-80k lb semi trucks and plows.

A lot of this is mindless hatred more than real fact.

ender

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fwiw having looked at houses recently, it certainly was the case that newer houses had skimpier garages and older houses had larger ones.

We don't have overly large cars and it would have sucked to have two in some of the smaller two car garages on newer homes.