Author Topic: Big Houses back in demand  (Read 45097 times)

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2015, 02:35:07 AM »
A good reason for not having an oversized house is that it atomises the family.  Several years ago I saw a bit of a TV programme about a family learning to live the pioneer life for a summer in a one-room cabin.  They looked pretty happy.  After it was over they went back to this enormous white house on the California coast, and the last bit of the show was the mother alone in this big kitchen while the rest of her family were each in different rooms all over the place and out of hearing of her and each other.  She looked sad.  The sheer size of the house separated the family members from each other.

More than one toilet is a good thing in a house with more than two occupants.  Only one bathroom just requires good routines, good manners and a degree of consultation/negotiation/adaptation.  Which are all good things for kids to have to learn.

Rural

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2015, 06:39:13 AM »
We designed and built our place from blueprints to trim (said trim still largely undone) and built for efficiency.


I'd have said I wanted a small house if asked several years ago. But I would have been wrong. I wanted a well-designed house with the spaces set up the way we use space, and earth sheltered, set up for solar heat gain in winter, with sun angles factored in so we don't get that heat gain in summer.


I wanted floors all on one level, whole house, so I can set up my sweeper robot and forget about it. I wanted high ceilings because Deep South, and reversible ceiling fans to keep the heat from pooling up there in winter.


I wanted one bedroom only as far as the tax office is concerned, but two offices, a library, and a dog room. I wanted an enclosed atrium to bring the outdoors and the natural light in, and I wanted a near 600 square foot front porch because what's the point of living in a mountain paradise if you don't go outside and enjoy it?


I wanted a walk-in shower with a seat, wide doorways for wheelchairs, and no steps inside or at entries for aging in place.


I already knew I wanted lots of land. We have 25 acres that requires no maintenance at all except for the driveway, which takes considerable shoveling and scraping and will have to be paved as we get older. But the rest is old growth  (not virgin, nothing is), and the best thing we can do for it is leave it alone other than rare controlled burns.


The house is 2,050 square feet not counting the atrium (still an open courtyard at this point, and will not be conditioned space) or the porch, which is now about half covered. It all works for us and isn't hard to clean, but it did require starting absolutely from scratch to get here.


If We hadn't built, I think a small house would be the next best thing because they're usually designed better. It's all about design, and that design needs to be based on utility, not fashion.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2015, 06:42:27 AM »
Our house is way to big, though oddly the bedrooms seem small.

However, we get a lot of use from our 3 car garage, and I have no interest in going back to a 1-stall (or even 2).  It is pretty much impossible to find a small home with a large garage, so extra house it is.

AvisJinx

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2015, 03:27:20 PM »
I have no desire to clean, furnish, decorate or maintain more space or heat empty rooms. 

Yep yep yep. I'm not a homeowner yet, but we rent a ~700 sqft apartment, and it already feels like too much to clean, declutter, and maintain. I'd like a second bedroom to use as an office/guest room, but other than that, I don't need any more space. Whenever I watch HGTV (don't judge, it's my guilty pleasure) I always get a kick out of the people who "need" 4-5 bedroom, 3-4 bath houses for just them and their 1-2 kids. All I can think of is, have fun cleaning that.

Isn't that the truth? I see these huge homes and wonder why anyone would want to take on the job of cleaning and maintaining them inside and out.

Don't feel bad. HGTV is my guilty pleasure, too. I particularly enjoy House Hunters; or rather I enjoy making fun of the people who have such unrealistic  expectations of homeownership and wants that are bigger than their budget.

I LOVE HGTV. When they started putting them on Netflix, I definitely binge watched a season or two of Property Brothers.

Oh yeah, gotta love Property Brothers. They at least get people interested in existing properties with potential.  My house was built in '68, but the location and neighborhood are great. It took a while to update, but it was totally worth it.

ash7962

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2015, 11:23:25 AM »
Interestingly enough, my parents seem to buy larger so they can have their kids and grand kids stay there.  They are the generation that wants to be with the family.  Not have them stay in hotels. 

My generation and the younger would rather stay in a hotel with their spouse and let the grand kids stay at the grand parents :)

My parents built their own house about 10 years ago, 1 master on the main floor and 2 BR upstairs.  At the time, my sister and I told them to build another room over the garage* to use as a bonus room/bedroom, and they said no.  Well now my sister and I are both married, and my wife and I have a kid, and my grandma is fortunately still with us, so when we're all home for Christmas they really need 4-5 bedrooms not 3.  My daughter sleeps in the room with my wife and I, and my sister and her husband stays at a hotel.  And my mom hates it.  Well, toldja so. 

*Not even build, just finish.  They coulda trussed the space to allow for more living space, but instead they didn't and now it's just a cavity above the garage, can't be finished or anything.  Probably would have cost $5k to do it at the time, would cost $10s of thousands to do now.

To each his own, but for me if I had that finished space over the garage not being used for 51/52 weeks of the year then I'd be going crazy.  The bedrooms can at least be repurposed during the rest of the year.  I think the situation could be solved by having a pull out couch in the living room or even an air mattress.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2015, 11:29:10 AM »
Interestingly enough, my parents seem to buy larger so they can have their kids and grand kids stay there.  They are the generation that wants to be with the family.  Not have them stay in hotels. 

My generation and the younger would rather stay in a hotel with their spouse and let the grand kids stay at the grand parents :)

My parents built their own house about 10 years ago, 1 master on the main floor and 2 BR upstairs.  At the time, my sister and I told them to build another room over the garage* to use as a bonus room/bedroom, and they said no.  Well now my sister and I are both married, and my wife and I have a kid, and my grandma is fortunately still with us, so when we're all home for Christmas they really need 4-5 bedrooms not 3.  My daughter sleeps in the room with my wife and I, and my sister and her husband stays at a hotel.  And my mom hates it.  Well, toldja so. 

*Not even build, just finish.  They coulda trussed the space to allow for more living space, but instead they didn't and now it's just a cavity above the garage, can't be finished or anything.  Probably would have cost $5k to do it at the time, would cost $10s of thousands to do now.

To each his own, but for me if I had that finished space over the garage not being used for 51/52 weeks of the year then I'd be going crazy.  The bedrooms can at least be repurposed during the rest of the year.  I think the situation could be solved by having a pull out couch in the living room or even an air mattress.

The space is there now, it's just a big air cavity over the garage.  And the house is on a split HVAC, which is turned off/essentially off most of the year, so it doesn't cost anything.  It would have just been different trusses and the cost of extra drywall and carpet.  The house is open concept outside of the bedrooms, so yeah, you CAN throw an air mattress down or whatever, but the people sleeping there get no privacy.  Thus they stay in a hotel.  Which is fine, but then my parents lose the right to bitch about it, since they made their choice.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2015, 12:34:48 PM »
Quote
Yep, I often wonder what happened to the days when the grandkids would just all sleep in the living room in their sleeping bags.
My BIL decided to not come for Thanksgiving because "have you ever been in a house with 3 kids" (SIL has 2, BIL would have brought 1).

This is made even more ridiculous because 1) My husband has a sister and a brother, clearly, they grew up in a house with 3 kids and 2) We live in a 5-bedroom, 3 bath house.  Husband and I have our master bedroom and a bathroom.  BIL's family get the upstairs 2 bedrooms and bathroom, SIL's family gets the downstairs bedroom + the downstairs living space and bathroom.  (Final bedroom is a craft room- no one enters.)

Every pair of adults has a room, every set of kids has a room. Each family has a bathroom.


This is NOTHING compared to when I was a kid and there were 8 adults and 12 kids sleeping on the floor of a 3-bedroom house! I was an adult when I saw my first "guest room".  As we have more kids (first is on the way), we fully plan to have no guest rooms. Having a room that exists to just wait to be used is silly if you could be using the space. (Yes- I know my house is silly large right now. We needed a large garage for a woodshop.)

LouLou

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2015, 07:57:31 PM »
Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

We are virtually the same age. I'm also an Oregon-trail millennial. So we are probably equally as good/bad about predicting what our peers will do :).

I can tell you, however, that barring unforeseen and extreme circumstances, there is no way in hell I will ever have a McMansion. I could have comfortably mortgaged myself into one quite some time ago, but have preferred to rent smaller spaces, even as I've added family members. Even when I've considred buying, I have never once been tempted by a huge home.

I would guess that most people who are regulars around here do not suddenly shift to wanting McMansions many years after their entry into adulthood. We want FI and/or ER instead.

I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about OUR GENERATION.  McMansions?  Probably not for most of us, but are we, as a generation, going to continue to flock to small condos in the city near indy coffee shops?  No.  Hell, my own street is currently undergoing a revolution of sorts as all the old people who own homes last udated in 1975 either die off or move to assisted living, and sell their older, modestly sized (2000sq ft, +/-), single family homes to 30-somethings with kids and we are all remodeling them, etc, because even though they're smallish and outdated, they're in a great school district and we have young kids, so that's what we do.

I think remodeling existing, modest homes in good school districts will be the more common route, instead of McMansions.  This millennial recently moved into a modest (2550 tri-level, including basement), 1950s house that was severely outdated.  Our neighborhood is filled with them. It's conveniently located, reasonably priced, just-big-enough, and in a good school district.  There are restaurants and local businesses nearby.  There will be a wave of older people who will start selling their houses over the next decade, and I think coupled millennials who have or want kids will move in.

Rural

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2015, 08:21:12 PM »
Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

We are virtually the same age. I'm also an Oregon-trail millennial. So we are probably equally as good/bad about predicting what our peers will do :).

I can tell you, however, that barring unforeseen and extreme circumstances, there is no way in hell I will ever have a McMansion. I could have comfortably mortgaged myself into one quite some time ago, but have preferred to rent smaller spaces, even as I've added family members. Even when I've considred buying, I have never once been tempted by a huge home.

I would guess that most people who are regulars around here do not suddenly shift to wanting McMansions many years after their entry into adulthood. We want FI and/or ER instead.

I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about OUR GENERATION.  McMansions?  Probably not for most of us, but are we, as a generation, going to continue to flock to small condos in the city near indy coffee shops?  No.  Hell, my own street is currently undergoing a revolution of sorts as all the old people who own homes last udated in 1975 either die off or move to assisted living, and sell their older, modestly sized (2000sq ft, +/-), single family homes to 30-somethings with kids and we are all remodeling them, etc, because even though they're smallish and outdated, they're in a great school district and we have young kids, so that's what we do.

I think remodeling existing, modest homes in good school districts will be the more common route, instead of McMansions.  This millennial recently moved into a modest (2550 tri-level, including basement), 1950s house that was severely outdated.  Our neighborhood is filled with them. It's conveniently located, reasonably priced, just-big-enough, and in a good school district.  There are restaurants and local businesses nearby.  There will be a wave of older people who will start selling their houses over the next decade, and I think coupled millennials who have or want kids will move in.


2550 sqft is sort of the opposite of "modest."

LouLou

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2015, 10:17:56 PM »
@Rural  It depends on frame of reference.  The total square footage includes our basement.  I can't remember what the "official" square footage of the house is, but the areas completely above grade are about 1700 sqft, which isn't that big in my opinion.  Not small, but not huge.  Hence modest.

The long term plan is for DH and I to adopt several children.  A family of six to seven in a 1700-2500 square feet seems modest to me.  If we were going to be childfree forever or have just one child, then we would have gotten a much smaller house.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2015, 10:55:01 PM »

As we have more kids (first is on the way), we fully plan to have no guest rooms. Having a room that exists to just wait to be used is silly if you could be using the space. (Yes- I know my house is silly large right now. We needed a large garage for a woodshop.)

I totally understand this logic, but I have to add that I am in the midst of having children and choosing what to do with "guest rooms." As such, it makes no sense to me to turn a useful guest room into more space for a child. We have a "nursery' of sorts that can quickly convert back into a guest room, but left the other 'guest rooms" as is because that child can and does sleep in our master. With another on the way, it's nice to have a guaranteed space for the grandparents to stay. Heck, we were able to house my whole family (3 pairs of adults, 2 single adult siblings, and 4 children) for Christmas with 4 BR and 2 BA in 1600 sq. ft. with only my parents opting for a hotel (because my dad snores loudly, which is true). It was great. And the rooms aren't a total waste in the downtime. One remains a dog/video game room, and the other is the sewing/storage room.

Jack

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2015, 07:28:53 AM »
Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

I'm 31 and married, living in a 1500 sq. ft. house in a walkable urban neighborhood (and yes, with good bars, though I don't go to them), and other than wanting a garage and to be even closer to the commercial district, I'm perfectly happy with it.

My house has plenty of space for a kid or two, and rather than moving for decent schools, I expect my millennial neighbors to have made the schools decent by the time I have kids in them.

Jack

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2015, 07:35:14 AM »
Keeping up with a large house or lot is a drag. It wastes so much time.  Plus all your bills are so much higher. However, conversely having too small a house with too many people is also a drag. I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

OK, help me understand.....What's the big benefit of the 2nd bathroom with 2 people?  Does it need to be 2 FULL baths, or is a 1/2 bath helpful?

2 baths is nice when you want to take a dump and your wife is in the shower. 

2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2015, 07:45:44 AM »

2550 sqft is sort of the opposite of "modest."
It's only slightly above average for new construction now, but in the 1950s it was a mansion.
Median new home size in that decade was 1000sf or slightly less, depending where you look.

partgypsy

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2015, 08:23:50 AM »
Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

We are virtually the same age. I'm also an Oregon-trail millennial. So we are probably equally as good/bad about predicting what our peers will do :).

I can tell you, however, that barring unforeseen and extreme circumstances, there is no way in hell I will ever have a McMansion. I could have comfortably mortgaged myself into one quite some time ago, but have preferred to rent smaller spaces, even as I've added family members. Even when I've considred buying, I have never once been tempted by a huge home.

I would guess that most people who are regulars around here do not suddenly shift to wanting McMansions many years after their entry into adulthood. We want FI and/or ER instead.

I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about OUR GENERATION.  McMansions?  Probably not for most of us, but are we, as a generation, going to continue to flock to small condos in the city near indy coffee shops?  No.  Hell, my own street is currently undergoing a revolution of sorts as all the old people who own homes last udated in 1975 either die off or move to assisted living, and sell their older, modestly sized (2000sq ft, +/-), single family homes to 30-somethings with kids and we are all remodeling them, etc, because even though they're smallish and outdated, they're in a great school district and we have young kids, so that's what we do.

I think remodeling existing, modest homes in good school districts will be the more common route, instead of McMansions.  This millennial recently moved into a modest (2550 tri-level, including basement), 1950s house that was severely outdated.  Our neighborhood is filled with them. It's conveniently located, reasonably priced, just-big-enough, and in a good school district.  There are restaurants and local businesses nearby.  There will be a wave of older people who will start selling their houses over the next decade, and I think coupled millennials who have or want kids will move in.

I agree, this is what is happening in my town. 20, 30 somethings are buying fixer uppers near downtown and fixing them up, living in them. Unfortunately the demand has outstripped supply, causing all housing near downtown to increase in price. It is actually cheaper to buy a larger new home, farther away, than to buy near downtown. So some families do that as well. Most of the new supply is built to be at least 3 bedroom, 2 bath, so by default that is what is purchased.

Nate R

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2015, 08:52:01 AM »
Keeping up with a large house or lot is a drag. It wastes so much time.  Plus all your bills are so much higher. However, conversely having too small a house with too many people is also a drag. I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

OK, help me understand.....What's the big benefit of the 2nd bathroom with 2 people?  Does it need to be 2 FULL baths, or is a 1/2 bath helpful?

2 baths is nice when you want to take a dump and your wife is in the shower. 

2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2015, 08:54:25 AM »
Keeping up with a large house or lot is a drag. It wastes so much time.  Plus all your bills are so much higher. However, conversely having too small a house with too many people is also a drag. I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

OK, help me understand.....What's the big benefit of the 2nd bathroom with 2 people?  Does it need to be 2 FULL baths, or is a 1/2 bath helpful?

2 baths is nice when you want to take a dump and your wife is in the shower. 

2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2015, 09:24:45 AM »

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?
Generational change and lifestyle creep are relevant to any discussion here. We're all looking to reclassify "needs" as wants and luxuries so we can increase savings, and looking back in time can help us gain perspective on that.

That said, I don't feel even a little bit bad about sharing 3 bedrooms and 2 full baths with my wife. We're in a low-cost area, we often entertain 10-20 people at a time, and we often have 2-3 sleep over - visitors from out of town, or just people who knew better than to drive home.

The key here is to meet all your actual needs but not drastically exceed them, so you can maximize financial progress without sacrificing happiness at home.

lostamonkey

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2015, 11:46:09 AM »
Keeping up with a large house or lot is a drag. It wastes so much time.  Plus all your bills are so much higher. However, conversely having too small a house with too many people is also a drag. I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

OK, help me understand.....What's the big benefit of the 2nd bathroom with 2 people?  Does it need to be 2 FULL baths, or is a 1/2 bath helpful?

2 baths is nice when you want to take a dump and your wife is in the shower. 

2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

If you can afford it, and are okay with the fact that it will delay your FIRE delay slightly, I don't see anything wrong with wanting a second bathroom. We all live way above our needs and that's okay.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2015, 12:20:35 PM »
Quote
IMO, with 2 kids, 4 bedrooms is ideal.

I had to double check that I was in the right forum.....

I have two kids, and we are doing just fine with 1 3/4 bathrooms.  Sure, once in a rare while I could see it being handy to have another 1/2 bath, but those occasions are rare and not enough to add another bath. 

Seriously, what are the odds that all four of you have to crap or shower at the same time?  A little planning here would make those extra bathrooms completely unnecessary. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2015, 12:22:14 PM »
Quote
IMO, with 2 kids, 4 bedrooms is ideal.

I had to double check that I was in the right forum.....

I have two kids, and we are doing just fine with 1 3/4 bathrooms.  Sure, once in a rare while I could see it being handy to have another 1/2 bath, but those occasions are rare and not enough to add another bath. 

Seriously, what are the odds that all four of you have to crap or shower at the same time?  A little planning here would make those extra bathrooms completely unnecessary.

What you quoted said bedrooms. I'm not sure why four bedrooms would be necessary with two kids, but it's not quite bathrooms.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2015, 12:42:32 PM »
Quote
IMO, with 2 kids, 4 bedrooms is ideal.

I had to double check that I was in the right forum.....

I have two kids, and we are doing just fine with 1 3/4 bathrooms.  Sure, once in a rare while I could see it being handy to have another 1/2 bath, but those occasions are rare and not enough to add another bath. 

Seriously, what are the odds that all four of you have to crap or shower at the same time?  A little planning here would make those extra bathrooms completely unnecessary.

What you quoted said bedrooms. I'm not sure why four bedrooms would be necessary with two kids, but it's not quite bathrooms.

I didn't say "necessary" I said "ideal".  I have a 3BR and plan on having 2 kids. 

1 MBR (parents) 1 kid BR 1 (kid 1) 1 kid BR 2 (kid 2), 1 guest room.  I know some of you are all anti-guest room, but we've found we use the space pretty regularly, as all of my family is from out of town. 

The other thing to consider is, as I've harped on, an additional bed or bath is not just money down the drain.  A house with more of either tends to have better resale value, so you pay up front and you get more on the back end back, presumably, all else being equal. 

I also consider 1 3/4 bath to be two bathrooms, which is basically my minimum.  As long as there are two places to crap and shower, I don't care tub vs. shower (though at least 1 tub is desirable for kids, whether yours or the prospective next owner's).

Jack

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2015, 04:28:41 PM »
2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2015, 06:08:21 PM »
2 FULL baths is nice when you both have to be somewhere (say, work) and don't want one of you to have to get up early to take the first shower.

She's your wife, not your sister. What do you need a second shower for?

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

If I ever want to make it to work on time we can't... 

Don't want to be 3 min late ;)

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2015, 08:53:49 AM »

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

Because I see it as a needed facepunch when people say that they would NEVER go back to 1 bathroom.

 
I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

I see that as an unnecessary luxury. We're all free to make our own decisions, but that's my perspective. So my original question was trying to understand why people would see it as a NEED to have a 2nd bathroom for 2 people.


golden1

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2015, 09:04:54 AM »
Oops...apparently I can't read.  I thought it said bathrooms. 

4 bedrooms for two kids is a bit more reasonable, especially if you have frequent guests. 

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2015, 09:25:25 AM »

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

Because I see it as a needed facepunch when people say that they would NEVER go back to 1 bathroom.

 
I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

I see that as an unnecessary luxury. We're all free to make our own decisions, but that's my perspective. So my original question was trying to understand why people would see it as a NEED to have a 2nd bathroom for 2 people.

Facepunch?  Unnecessary luxury?  What are we, monks?  Come on man.  Don't be ridiculous.  It sure is decadent of me to want a quiet place to take a shit while my wife is in the shower. 

And besides, see my note on resale.  What's the resale value potential of a house with 2 baths versus 1?  I'm currently putting a third bath in my house (current house has 1 full bath, 1 powder room) and it's costing me about $5k for a middle of the road full bath (I'm doing all the work myself except the plumbing rough in which is about half the budget).  My realtor has already informed me that's about $20k of value I'm adding.  Even if she's full of shit and off by half, I'm $5k ahead when I go to sell.  This is about optimization not slashing your life to the bare essentials.  And adding something convenient that nets me a 100%-400% return sure is optimal in my book.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2015, 10:00:19 AM »

Agreed. Sure, the 2nd bathroom is "nice" for things like that. But to say you'll never be w/o a 2nd one again? Just seems ridiculous to me. Plenty of families survived just fine on one bathroom in small houses in the 50s, for example.

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

I agree that having a second full bathroom with two people is not necessary, but the solution isn't showering together.  That's slow as shit.  Only one person can have the water at once and you've got to deal with another person in your way.  Just a huge hassle and definitely not a time saver.  If it's the morning I ain't doing that.  But, I don't get why the male just doesn't shower second.  Should take you a lot less time in the morning to get ready and you can just do other things during her shower time: make coffee, breakfast, lay out your clothes, back your gym back, etc.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2015, 10:08:35 AM »
A 3/4 bathroom?  Never heard that term before.  It's got only a shower, while a full bathroom requires a tub?  Or does the full bathroom require a tubshower combo or a tub and a shower?

So, does just a tub with no shower count as a 3/4 bathroom as well?  And what if you have 2- 3/4 bathrooms.  Do I list my house as 1 and 1/2 bath or 2 bathroom?  Or should I list it as 1 and 3/4 bath?  And does it matter if my two 3/4 bathrooms have different parts?  IE one has only a tub and one has only a shower.

You guys have added a whole lot of complexity to this issue.

And what about Jacuzzi tubs?  If I have one of those and a shower plus an extra sink do I get to count that one bathroom as a 1 1/4 bath?  Or is a bathroom at most one bathroom regardless of what is in it?

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2015, 10:33:40 AM »
1 bath = sink and crapper and shower and tub (shower and tub can be together or separate)
3/4 bath =  sink and crapper and shower
1/2 bath = sink and crapper

 

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2015, 10:40:11 AM »
There were 5 of us with 1 bathroom & although we made it work it was not fun by any means. Yes it is wonderful to have 2 even for 2 people. Also you have company stay over & it is nice to not have to all use the same one. Or you throw a big party, etc. My adult kids have been staying with us for the past year & so happy to have 2. Will I die without a 2nd one -no!  But I sure wouldn't chose it.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2015, 10:59:54 AM »
1 bath = sink and crapper and shower and tub (shower and tub can be together or separate)
3/4 bath =  sink and crapper and shower
1/2 bath = sink and crapper

So what about a sink, a toilet and a tub?  Full bath or 3/4 bath?

And I'm still wondering about how you add all these different fractions together.  Do 3/4 bathrooms just get rounded up unless they are the only fraction?

As for the bigger bathroom discussion, my wife and I do great with one bathroom but we have much different wake-up schedules, and even when guests come it still isn't an issue.

And, I actually really like this article.  Shows how much lifestyle creep has occurred since the "single breadwinner days" and I can use this when politicians (or redditors) get on their soapboxes about the erosion of the middle class.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2015, 11:06:54 AM »
1 bath = sink and crapper and shower and tub (shower and tub can be together or separate)
3/4 bath =  sink and crapper and shower
1/2 bath = sink and crapper

So what about a sink, a toilet and a tub?  Full bath or 3/4 bath?

I dunno, I don't think that is a common enough configuration to have a real estate definition.

Quote
And I'm still wondering about how you add all these different fractions together.  Do 3/4 bathrooms just get rounded up unless they are the only fraction?

Basically, yes. 

Quote
As for the bigger bathroom discussion, my wife and I do great with one bathroom but we have much different wake-up schedules, and even when guests come it still isn't an issue.

And, I actually really like this article.  Shows how much lifestyle creep has occurred since the "single breadwinner days" and I can use this when politicians (or redditors) get on their soapboxes about the erosion of the middle class.

I again urge you to read MMM's latest column about knowing your audience when selling your house before deciding if more than 1 bathroom is really lifestyle creep.  People used to get by with an icebox instead of a fridge, too, doesn't make a fridge a frivilous luxury.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2015, 11:16:21 AM »


I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

Because I see it as a needed facepunch when people say that they would NEVER go back to 1 bathroom.

 
I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

I see that as an unnecessary luxury. We're all free to make our own decisions, but that's my perspective. So my original question was trying to understand why people would see it as a NEED to have a 2nd bathroom for 2 people.

I like long baths, and DH spends a lot of time in the bathroom meditating. (That's what I call it, anyway.) We could certainly live with one bath - we did for years - but would prefer not to.  To me, that's the point of MMM. You figure out what you really want, and cut out everything else.

EricP

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2015, 11:23:52 AM »
1 bath = sink and crapper and shower and tub (shower and tub can be together or separate)
3/4 bath =  sink and crapper and shower
1/2 bath = sink and crapper

So what about a sink, a toilet and a tub?  Full bath or 3/4 bath?

I dunno, I don't think that is a common enough configuration to have a real estate definition.

Quote
And I'm still wondering about how you add all these different fractions together.  Do 3/4 bathrooms just get rounded up unless they are the only fraction?

Basically, yes. 

Quote
As for the bigger bathroom discussion, my wife and I do great with one bathroom but we have much different wake-up schedules, and even when guests come it still isn't an issue.

And, I actually really like this article.  Shows how much lifestyle creep has occurred since the "single breadwinner days" and I can use this when politicians (or redditors) get on their soapboxes about the erosion of the middle class.

I again urge you to read MMM's latest column about knowing your audience when selling your house before deciding if more than 1 bathroom is really lifestyle creep.  People used to get by with an icebox instead of a fridge, too, doesn't make a fridge a frivilous luxury.

Wasn't talking about this 1 bathroom discussion.  Was talking about the original article that had the average house in 1967 at 1660 sg. ft. (pretty sure lots of 1600 sg ft houses have 2 bathrooms) and the average house today at 2657 sq. ft., despite the average household size dropping by 1/2 a person.

And this isn't an icebox vs. a fridge discussion.  Land costs and build costs haven't dropped significantly enough to warrant this massive change.  The cost of housing is going up because people are buying bigger houses, that's all I was saying.  It's not degradation of the middle class, it's lifestyle creep.

A Cell Phone in 1985 was a huge luxury.  Having a Cell Phone today is normal, I can understand that, but constantly upgrading to the latest and greatest upon release every year and having an oversized data package is a luxury, yet that has moved firmly into the "necessities" column when discussing the degradation of the middle class.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2015, 11:44:58 AM »
My house is 1700 sq ft, so no lifestyle creep here.  3 cars (one of them an SUV!) might be though... ;)

Jack

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2015, 12:03:38 PM »
I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

I agree that having a second full bathroom with two people is not necessary, but the solution isn't showering together.  That's slow as shit.  Only one person can have the water at once and you've got to deal with another person in your way.  Just a huge hassle and definitely not a time saver.  If it's the morning I ain't doing that.  But, I don't get why the male just doesn't shower second.  Should take you a lot less time in the morning to get ready and you can just do other things during her shower time: make coffee, breakfast, lay out your clothes, back your gym back, etc.

Not true: if each person's sequence is 1) shampoo, 2) rinse, 3) soap, 4) rinse, then person 2 can shower in parallel, one step behind. Because of that, the total number of sequential steps for two showers would only be 5 instead of 8.

1 bath = sink and crapper and shower and tub (shower and tub can be together or separate)
3/4 bath =  sink and crapper and shower
1/2 bath = sink and crapper

So what about a sink, a toilet and a tub?  Full bath or 3/4 bath?

And I'm still wondering about how you add all these different fractions together.  Do 3/4 bathrooms just get rounded up unless they are the only fraction?

I've come up with a new house-flipping business model: take a 1-bathroom house, add a bidet and a urinal, and advertise it as a 1.5 bathroom house! It's brilliant, I tell you!

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2015, 01:02:33 PM »
And adding something convenient that nets me a 100%-400% return sure is optimal in my book.
100%-300% ;)

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2015, 09:51:47 AM »
I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

I agree that having a second full bathroom with two people is not necessary, but the solution isn't showering together.  That's slow as shit.  Only one person can have the water at once and you've got to deal with another person in your way.  Just a huge hassle and definitely not a time saver.  If it's the morning I ain't doing that.  But, I don't get why the male just doesn't shower second.  Should take you a lot less time in the morning to get ready and you can just do other things during her shower time: make coffee, breakfast, lay out your clothes, back your gym back, etc.

Not true: if each person's sequence is 1) shampoo, 2) rinse, 3) soap, 4) rinse, then person 2 can shower in parallel, one step behind. Because of that, the total number of sequential steps for two showers would only be 5 instead of 8.

Sure, that decreases the time the shower is being used, but we're not talking about only shower time here.  Adding in a second person will definitely increase the time for each person to complete their 4 steps.  This is for a couple reasons.  First, steps 3 and 4 do not have to be performed strictly sequentially.  I will begin rinsing areas while continuing to soap.  Additionally, if one person is slower at any steps than the other person, or the steps don't take the exact same amount of time, one person will be waiting.

There's no point in running double duty on the shower and slowing everyone's progress when that doesn't have to be the critical step.  Deconflicting shower use is the much better solution, then decreasing the efficiency of both people's shower.

(Also, while not the case for most people, since my wife is 1 legged, there is a statistically relevant transition time, takes about 15 seconds to switch, never seems safe)

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2015, 10:59:10 AM »
I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

I agree that having a second full bathroom with two people is not necessary, but the solution isn't showering together.  That's slow as shit.  Only one person can have the water at once and you've got to deal with another person in your way.  Just a huge hassle and definitely not a time saver.  If it's the morning I ain't doing that.  But, I don't get why the male just doesn't shower second.  Should take you a lot less time in the morning to get ready and you can just do other things during her shower time: make coffee, breakfast, lay out your clothes, back your gym back, etc.

Not true: if each person's sequence is 1) shampoo, 2) rinse, 3) soap, 4) rinse, then person 2 can shower in parallel, one step behind. Because of that, the total number of sequential steps for two showers would only be 5 instead of 8.

Sure, that decreases the time the shower is being used, but we're not talking about only shower time here.  Adding in a second person will definitely increase the time for each person to complete their 4 steps.  This is for a couple reasons.  First, steps 3 and 4 do not have to be performed strictly sequentially.  I will begin rinsing areas while continuing to soap.  Additionally, if one person is slower at any steps than the other person, or the steps don't take the exact same amount of time, one person will be waiting.

There's no point in running double duty on the shower and slowing everyone's progress when that doesn't have to be the critical step.  Deconflicting shower use is the much better solution, then decreasing the efficiency of both people's shower.

(Also, while not the case for most people, since my wife is 1 legged, there is a statistically relevant transition time, takes about 15 seconds to switch, never seems safe)

So I thought you were joking about the shower together thing because of the sexual nature (which I'm all for when the opportunity is right), but now I see you're actually doing this as a way to optimize time spent in the shower, which is not an area of my life I'm looking to cut back.  I live where water is cheap and plentiful, and a nice long hot shower to start the day is a true luxury.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2015, 11:24:50 AM »

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

Because I see it as a needed facepunch when people say that they would NEVER go back to 1 bathroom.

 
I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

I see that as an unnecessary luxury. We're all free to make our own decisions, but that's my perspective. So my original question was trying to understand why people would see it as a NEED to have a 2nd bathroom for 2 people.

Facepunch?  Unnecessary luxury?  What are we, monks?  Come on man.  Don't be ridiculous.  It sure is decadent of me to want a quiet place to take a shit while my wife is in the shower. 

And besides, see my note on resale.  What's the resale value potential of a house with 2 baths versus 1?  I'm currently putting a third bath in my house (current house has 1 full bath, 1 powder room) and it's costing me about $5k for a middle of the road full bath (I'm doing all the work myself except the plumbing rough in which is about half the budget).  My realtor has already informed me that's about $20k of value I'm adding.  Even if she's full of shit and off by half, I'm $5k ahead when I go to sell.  This is about optimization not slashing your life to the bare essentials.  And adding something convenient that nets me a 100%-400% return sure is optimal in my book.


Resale value of 2 baths vs 1? Sure, of course it's higher. But that was priced in when you bought it, too.
UNLESS you add it, that's where the real money is, in some areas. So what's optimization? To me, it's NOT paying 20K more for that bath, it's adding it later right before you sell for the clowns that demand that extra bath, and will pay that much more for it.  If it was so useful, why didn't you add it when you moved in, and not as you prepare to sell? (Assumption I'm making, since you mentioned a realtor.)

And yes, I guess waiting 10 minutes to use the toilet is so tough, that really would be cutting your life to the bare essentials.

Apparently I'm in a minority even here for seeing a 2nd bathroom in a home with 2 people as lifestyle creep.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2015, 11:30:41 AM »

I don't give a shit what people in the 50s did.  Could I SURVIVE?  Sure.  But as long as I am able to find a house with 2 bathrooms, I will.  Why the need to argue with that?

Because I see it as a needed facepunch when people say that they would NEVER go back to 1 bathroom.

 
I definitely will never go back to 1 bathroom. So awesome having 2!!!!

I see that as an unnecessary luxury. We're all free to make our own decisions, but that's my perspective. So my original question was trying to understand why people would see it as a NEED to have a 2nd bathroom for 2 people.

Facepunch?  Unnecessary luxury?  What are we, monks?  Come on man.  Don't be ridiculous.  It sure is decadent of me to want a quiet place to take a shit while my wife is in the shower. 

And besides, see my note on resale.  What's the resale value potential of a house with 2 baths versus 1?  I'm currently putting a third bath in my house (current house has 1 full bath, 1 powder room) and it's costing me about $5k for a middle of the road full bath (I'm doing all the work myself except the plumbing rough in which is about half the budget).  My realtor has already informed me that's about $20k of value I'm adding.  Even if she's full of shit and off by half, I'm $5k ahead when I go to sell.  This is about optimization not slashing your life to the bare essentials.  And adding something convenient that nets me a 100%-400% return sure is optimal in my book.


Resale value of 2 baths vs 1? Sure, of course it's higher. But that was priced in when you bought it, too.
UNLESS you add it, that's where the real money is, in some areas. So what's optimization? To me, it's NOT paying 20K more for that bath, it's adding it later right before you sell for the clowns that demand that extra bath, and will pay that much more for it.  If it was so useful, why didn't you add it when you moved in, and not as you prepare to sell? (Assumption I'm making, since you mentioned a realtor.)

And yes, I guess waiting 10 minutes to use the toilet is so tough, that really would be cutting your life to the bare essentials.

Apparently I'm in a minority even here for seeing a 2nd bathroom in a home with 2 people as lifestyle creep.

I did just move in.  I was discussing with my BUYING agent. 

You can say I don't NEED it, and you're right, but this facepunch/clown chicken shit is over the top for something as basic as a second bathroom.  You've got some fucked up bipolar view where everything is either a necessity or lifestyle creep clown show face-punch deserving.  Unless you're shitting in a hole twigs and berries you scavenged for in the woods, maybe you tone it back a notch or two and appreciate a little gray area. 

EricP

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2015, 12:10:28 PM »
I was just pointing out that you should re-examine your assumption that having one shower means you and your wife can't shower at the same time.

I agree that having a second full bathroom with two people is not necessary, but the solution isn't showering together.  That's slow as shit.  Only one person can have the water at once and you've got to deal with another person in your way.  Just a huge hassle and definitely not a time saver.  If it's the morning I ain't doing that.  But, I don't get why the male just doesn't shower second.  Should take you a lot less time in the morning to get ready and you can just do other things during her shower time: make coffee, breakfast, lay out your clothes, back your gym back, etc.

Not true: if each person's sequence is 1) shampoo, 2) rinse, 3) soap, 4) rinse, then person 2 can shower in parallel, one step behind. Because of that, the total number of sequential steps for two showers would only be 5 instead of 8.

Sure, that decreases the time the shower is being used, but we're not talking about only shower time here.  Adding in a second person will definitely increase the time for each person to complete their 4 steps.  This is for a couple reasons.  First, steps 3 and 4 do not have to be performed strictly sequentially.  I will begin rinsing areas while continuing to soap.  Additionally, if one person is slower at any steps than the other person, or the steps don't take the exact same amount of time, one person will be waiting.

There's no point in running double duty on the shower and slowing everyone's progress when that doesn't have to be the critical step.  Deconflicting shower use is the much better solution, then decreasing the efficiency of both people's shower.

(Also, while not the case for most people, since my wife is 1 legged, there is a statistically relevant transition time, takes about 15 seconds to switch, never seems safe)

So I thought you were joking about the shower together thing because of the sexual nature (which I'm all for when the opportunity is right), but now I see you're actually doing this as a way to optimize time spent in the shower, which is not an area of my life I'm looking to cut back.  I live where water is cheap and plentiful, and a nice long hot shower to start the day is a true luxury.

No, it's still just a joke, but taken to ridiculous lengths.  Ever seen Silicon Valley, I'd suggest googling the discussion about jerking off scene and that's basically what I'm doing here.

zephyr911

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2015, 11:33:18 AM »
Apparently I'm in a minority even here for seeing a 2nd bathroom in a home with 2 people as lifestyle creep.
Let's say it is, but let's add some context with availability and liquidity.
I can't even find a house in a safe neighborhood here that doesn't have at least 1.5 baths, because the only ones that weren't built or retrofitted that way are in left-behind depressed neighborhoods. The easiest house to buy and sell today (and for a few decades now) is a one-story, 3BR, 2BA. It's also the easiest to rent out if you ever need to... because that's right at the happy medium of affordability and demand, where two professionals can be roommates, a family can grow to 4-5 without crowding too much, etc.
Is it silly that my wife and I *only* downsized to 3/2, 1100sf after finding MMM? Somewhat. But we're at the point of diminishing returns; we've already cut our mortgage to 5% of our income. To go any smaller/cheaper, we'd have to move to a shit neighborhood that's all rentals with cars in the yard and a higher crime rate, that's harder to unload or add to the rental portfolio. So for us, the ridiculous 2 bathrooms for simultaneous primping are just a side effect of buying a reasonable house in a safe place.
YMMV... high COL areas especially, I'd expect different options.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:51:48 AM by zephyr911 »

I'm a red panda

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2015, 11:42:58 AM »

Not true: if each person's sequence is 1) shampoo, 2) rinse, 3) soap, 4) rinse, then person 2 can shower in parallel, one step behind. Because of that, the total number of sequential steps for two showers would only be 5 instead of 8.


The people in your scenario must have the same length hair.  It takes me the same amount of time to get my hair WET as it does my husband to take his entire shower.

(Of course, I only wash my hair once a week, and thus am usually quicker than him, since I only have to step in, soap, rinse and am done.)

randymarsh

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2015, 12:16:57 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?

zephyr911

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2015, 01:03:07 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?
A 3/2 fixer with a one-car garage on my street went for $75K a couple months ago. Neighborhood is 30 years old and median is more like $100K. I'm in a cheap town though, may not relate to your market at all.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2015, 01:11:14 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?
A 3/2 fixer with a one-car garage on my street went for $75K a couple months ago. Neighborhood is 30 years old and median is more like $100K. I'm in a cheap town though, may not relate to your market at all.

All real estate is local.  My 3/2 with 1 car garage sold for $135k. Which is basically the median price for the neighborhood because they are ALL 3/2s.  (Well except more like 1.5 on the second bath)

Rural

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #98 on: July 03, 2015, 05:36:38 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?


A normal 3/2 here will go for $35-50k unless it comes with more than five acres or its one of the few new "fancy" houses - but those don't sell at all.

Nate R

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #99 on: July 04, 2015, 03:25:26 PM »
Apparently I'm in a minority even here for seeing a 2nd bathroom in a home with 2 people as lifestyle creep.
Let's say it is, but let's add some context with availability and liquidity.
I can't even find a house in a safe neighborhood here that doesn't have at least 1.5 baths, because the only ones that weren't built or retrofitted that way are in left-behind depressed neighborhoods. The easiest house to buy and sell today (and for a few decades now) is a one-story, 3BR, 2BA. It's also the easiest to rent out if you ever need to... because that's right at the happy medium of affordability and demand, where two professionals can be roommates, a family can grow to 4-5 without crowding too much, etc.
Is it silly that my wife and I *only* downsized to 3/2, 1100sf after finding MMM? Somewhat. But we're at the point of diminishing returns; we've already cut our mortgage to 5% of our income. To go any smaller/cheaper, we'd have to move to a shit neighborhood that's all rentals with cars in the yard and a higher crime rate, that's harder to unload or add to the rental portfolio. So for us, the ridiculous 2 bathrooms for simultaneous primping are just a side effect of buying a reasonable house in a safe place.
YMMV... high COL areas especially, I'd expect different options.
[/quote}

What got me more so wasn't that you'd ACCEPT a 2nd bathroom, it was that someone here (on MMM) would REQUIRE it in a household of 2 people. No problem in some areas, as you demonstrate. But, as you said, in high COL areas, I think many would be better off opening up their options to include the possibility of one bathroom.