Author Topic: Big Houses back in demand  (Read 45164 times)

Tabaxus

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #100 on: July 04, 2015, 03:52:31 PM »
I saw a 1000 sq ft condo the other day for $300k and $350/month assessment and that was a reasonable deal.

Grah, I wish that I could keep my job (or even a remotely similar job) and live somewhere that I can have a yard one day.  Seriously, I just want a yard.  I haven't owned a grill for more than 10 years:/

tvan

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2015, 04:41:27 PM »
A 3/2 for 300k in SoCal?  Impossible. More like a million. Lol. Seriously I was hiking in Tustin today and a 1000 sq ft 1 bedroom condo there was selling for 500k.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2015, 10:48:54 AM »
A 3/2 for 300k in SoCal?  Impossible. More like a million. Lol. Seriously I was hiking in Tustin today and a 1000 sq ft 1 bedroom condo there was selling for 500k.
Yeah and that's probably pretty inexpensive by Tustin standards. I think I want to go live where ever Rural lives - a 3/2 for under $50K! Wow, boogles this SoCalians mind. Of course rural living isn't for me but I have spent a lot of time looking at places out of state and there are so many beautiful places in lovely towns for a tiny fraction of the cost of SoCal housing.


We don't have beach volleyball, either - you'd have to take up hiking or rock climbing.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2015, 01:22:10 PM »
Good God! 2600 square feet is the *average* now! I own a 2400 square foot house, but I have 5 kids and a 6 bedroom house.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2015, 01:32:43 PM »
What got me more so wasn't that you'd ACCEPT a 2nd bathroom, it was that someone here (on MMM) would REQUIRE it in a household of 2 people. No problem in some areas, as you demonstrate. But, as you said, in high COL areas, I think many would be better off opening up their options to include the possibility of one bathroom.
Oh, absolutely. Our own future probably involves that very tradeoff, and we have already agreed that we have NO problem with doing so.

Our #1 longterm goal is to move to either my hometown in HI or near my family in the Seattle area (or possibly have houses in both places, if/when work and finances permit). We would absolutely consider a 1/1 or a studio in either locale, rather than delay FIRE or the move itself by any substantial amount of time.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2015, 02:49:12 PM »
This bathroom discussion is interesting. My own opinion is that bare minimum NEED is 1, regardless of family size. I grew up in a family of 9 with three toilets and two showers, and even with 9 people, very rarely are three people in need of a toilet at the exact same time, so three was maybe overkill for us. Mr. and I have just moved to a smaller place with only 1 bathroom (old place had 2.5) and thus far the only downside is having to go upstairs to pee. Whatever.

I guess I'm more surprised that there hasn't been much discussion of bedroom size beyond a few mentions here and there. I'm finding myself baffled at large master bedrooms lately--I mean, I guess it's convenient to have a bathroom in your bedroom, but if you're not living with roommates, what's the point? I live with just my husband, so if I need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, I just roll out of bed and do it, even if I'm naked. I can see this changing when kids come along, but even then, my ideal would be a small bathroom attached to a small bedroom, and that definitely does not exist that I can find.

Our new apartment has two bedrooms, and one is noticeably smaller than the other, with a smaller closet. We're sleeping in the smaller one and I'm loving it. The second bedroom is for storage, and the big closet holds stacked camping gear more easily, and we have this huge dresser my in-laws gifted me that doesn't fit in the small bedroom. Bedrooms are for sleep and sex. I've found that any extra space beyond room for the bed and maybe a small dresser just ends up piles of clothes (probably could cut down on the clothes, lol). Plus I sleep better in a smaller space. I'd sleep in a large closet if I had one big enough to fit my bed :D

On another note, when we were moving out of the old place, which had an ENORMOUS kitchen, I was struck by how many cabinets there were, and how long it took to clean that thing, and how was it that I never had enough counter space in such a big kitchen? The new kitchen is more galley-style, with no room for a table or breakfast nook or whatever, and I LOVE it. It's big enough for two people to cook at the same time, but you're never reaching/walking too far to get something, and there's somehow way more counter space.

Mr. and I have now realized that our ideal house, assuming kids, is 3bd/2ba, small bedrooms, galley kitchen, open common area encompassing dining/living/family room, finished basement big enough for kids to play and for Mr. to set up his amps/speakers for guitars/bass.

And I too would love a small house on a big piece of land.

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2015, 06:49:43 PM »
I can see this changing when kids come along, but even then, my ideal would be a small bathroom attached to a small bedroom, and that definitely does not exist that I can find.

They exist, I grew up in one. They tend to be called a "Jack & Jill" bathroom, and typically have two entrances from either side, each leading into a bedroom. While the house that I grew up in was small, and only had the one bathroom, I don't think that was typical even then.  It was a 3 bedroom house, with my parents in one side of the J&J and my older sister in the other. Since both these rooms locked, and my sister was a typical big sister, my little brother and I (who shared the third bedroom) had to sneak through my parents' room at night. It never bothered my dad, by my mom was always a light sleeper.  I'd say that a two bedroom house, with one full J&J and a half bath near the kitchen would be ideal for a Mustachian young family.


Jack

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #107 on: July 06, 2015, 09:08:38 PM »
I guess I'm more surprised that there hasn't been much discussion of bedroom size beyond a few mentions here and there. I'm finding myself baffled at large master bedrooms lately--

Bedrooms are for sleep and sex.

I have a theory (and it's all your fault!): the kinds of houses that have these large master suites are family houses, right? Typically owned by middle-aged parents who (ideally) have been together a while? Well, if the master bedroom isn't large because that makes it better for sleeping, then it must be large because of the other use. I can only assume the extra space is there to accommodate extra... "equipment" the couples use to keep their relationship interesting.

Next time y'all talk to any McMansion-owning friends you might have, be sure to ask them about it! ; )

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #108 on: July 06, 2015, 10:22:04 PM »
I guess I'm more surprised that there hasn't been much discussion of bedroom size beyond a few mentions here and there. I'm finding myself baffled at large master bedrooms lately--

Bedrooms are for sleep and sex.

I have a theory (and it's all your fault!): the kinds of houses that have these large master suites are family houses, right? Typically owned by middle-aged parents who (ideally) have been together a while? Well, if the master bedroom isn't large because that makes it better for sleeping, then it must be large because of the other use. I can only assume the extra space is there to accommodate extra... "equipment" the couples use to keep their relationship interesting.


Mostly it's to house the huge bed, but also the extra 'stuff' older parents tend to accumulate today as compared to older generations.  My parents house didn't have bedrooms that varied in size much, but if you find a small-ish house with a 'master' bedroom, just move into the small bedroom and reserve the 'master' for whichever gender of children you have more of.  Two boys and a girl? Keep them all together till the oldest is about 8, then put the girl in the third bedroom; or better, in the walk-in closet.  Or you could plan ahead and get a set of these...

http://thebeanbagstore.com/bhpicksix.htm

Then you will be ready for the big sleepover!

EDIT: If you look in the bottom right corner of that photo, you will see the hoverboard from Back to the Future 2 & 3 in levitation.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 10:29:33 PM by MoonShadow »

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #109 on: July 06, 2015, 10:32:43 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?


A normal 3/2 here will go for $35-50k unless it comes with more than five acres or its one of the few new "fancy" houses - but those don't sell at all.

Wow.  Where do you live?

MrsPete

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #110 on: July 07, 2015, 08:51:47 AM »
Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 
I don't know.  The world of education is changing significantly, especially for the most capable students -- they have online options now that didn't exist even five years ago.  I don't think elementary school will alter much in the coming years, but if you could fast forward to high-school-10-or-15-years-from-now, I suspect many/most of the average and above students will not be sitting in a classroom like you and I did.  They may go in once or twice a week, but they're not going to be tied to a traditional school schedule.  The lower-level kids, those who don't read well enough /those who don't manage their time well enough to work independently, they'll still be in school.  Maybe 10-15 years isn't the right time frame, but we're heading in that direction. 

Yep yep yep. I'm not a homeowner yet, but we rent a ~700 sqft apartment, and it already feels like too much to clean, declutter, and maintain. I'd like a second bedroom to use as an office/guest room, but other than that, I don't need any more space. Whenever I watch HGTV (don't judge, it's my guilty pleasure) I always get a kick out of the people who "need" 4-5 bedroom, 3-4 bath houses for just them and their 1-2 kids. All I can think of is, have fun cleaning that.
Ironically, when I was younger I wanted a big, really nice house ... now that I could easily afford to buy such a house, my wants have changed.  I want something smaller, more efficient, and with less maintenance. 

mm1970

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #111 on: July 07, 2015, 09:17:37 AM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?
3/2. Probably $1.5M-$2 depending on the condition and lot size.
In SoCal even the old 1950's 3/2 ranches with a 2 car garage in a working class 'hood go for 1/2 million or more. Some are torn down and converted to McMansions, some are extended into the huge (by city standard) back yard, but most are just lived in or rented out. The closer you get to the beach or the more improved the house, the higher the price jumps by a lot. Not 2007 levels yet but getting up there. Hmmm.... didn't some crazy woman have a thread somewhere here where they said they weren't going to sell their old 3/2 1950's house in SoCal yet for some crazy reason?  Some body should probably talk some sense into that girl :-)!
Yep, here on the "Central Coast", Goleta 3/2 would be $750k-800k, depending on the 'hood.  Santa Barbara, or one of the really good school districts, easily $900k+

mm1970

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #112 on: July 07, 2015, 09:20:43 AM »
Quote
I guess I'm more surprised that there hasn't been much discussion of bedroom size beyond a few mentions here and there. I'm finding myself baffled at large master bedrooms lately--I mean, I guess it's convenient to have a bathroom in your bedroom, but if you're not living with roommates, what's the point? I live with just my husband, so if I need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night, I just roll out of bed and do it, even if I'm naked. I can see this changing when kids come along, but even then, my ideal would be a small bathroom attached to a small bedroom, and that definitely does not exist that I can find.

We noticed when we were house shopping - we'd see these newer condos.  The living room would be tiny - barely big enough for a small sofa, maybe a chair.  But the master bedroom and bath were HUGE.  Who entertains in the master bedroom?  Not me.  Not other people anyway.

And your bathroom habits in the middle of the night don't need to change when you have kids.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #113 on: July 07, 2015, 09:32:50 AM »
A large MBR is nice when it comfortably accomodates a king-size bed and a couple of dressers.  It gets silly when it starts include its own lounge area.  Our old MBR was ideal at 15 x 15, our new one is a little tighter at 12 x 15, but still workable.  Wouldn't want to go a lot smaller because then you start running out of space for the king bed. 

Mrs.LC

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #114 on: July 07, 2015, 10:14:21 AM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #115 on: July 07, 2015, 09:33:39 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

Now I need to be rich enough to afford a big house and a housekeeper.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #116 on: July 07, 2015, 11:06:13 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

Now I need to be rich enough to afford a big house and a housekeeper.
Beware that the $450K starting price probably doesn't include a front door and kitchen sink. The "upgrades" will put you closer to $550K and up.


Sam E

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2015, 07:20:41 AM »
It's actually pretty annoying to me how big houses are. I'd love to buy a house at some point, but they're all just way more house than I want to bother maintaining. I'll probably be renting apartments for life because 1 bedroom houses with 1000 square feet simply don't seem to exist, and that's kind of my maximum amount of space I want to deal with living in.

zephyr911

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2015, 07:25:19 AM »
Ironically, when I was younger I wanted a big, really nice house ... now that I could easily afford to buy such a house, my wants have changed.  I want something smaller, more efficient, and with less maintenance.
I know right??? They used to tempt me too. Now I look and I'm like "OMG MAINTENANCE TAXES UTILITIES *freaks out*"
People really think they're buying happiness... I see them paying more now for the privilege of paying more forever.
This could really put a damper on my future in real estate.

It's actually pretty annoying to me how big houses are. I'd love to buy a house at some point, but they're all just way more house than I want to bother maintaining. I'll probably be renting apartments for life because 1 bedroom houses with 1000 square feet simply don't seem to exist, and that's kind of my maximum amount of space I want to deal with living in.
1000sf isn't hard to find in many markets - it's just more likely to be an older 2-3BR. Your best bet is to find one of those as a foreclosure and rebuild the inside to your specs. It'd still end up being pretty affordable in most markets.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 07:28:06 AM by zephyr911 »

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2015, 08:38:18 AM »
It's actually pretty annoying to me how big houses are. I'd love to buy a house at some point, but they're all just way more house than I want to bother maintaining. I'll probably be renting apartments for life because 1 bedroom houses with 1000 square feet simply don't seem to exist, and that's kind of my maximum amount of space I want to deal with living in.

I looked at several 1100-1300 sq ft ranches when I bought my current home, they had all been remodeled and most had a nicely finished basement as well.  Probably bigger than you want, but if you go much smaller you're not really going to save much more, and you'll have a harder time unloading it.  Probably easier to go with a condo.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #120 on: July 09, 2015, 09:11:29 AM »
Slightly off topic but interesting graphics - scroll down to the animation

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/07/mapping-the-us-by-property-value-instead-of-land-area/397841/

celticmyst08

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #121 on: July 09, 2015, 09:31:50 AM »
Ironically, when I was younger I wanted a big, really nice house ... now that I could easily afford to buy such a house, my wants have changed.  I want something smaller, more efficient, and with less maintenance.

Ha... same here. As a kid I was always so embarrassed that we had a small, boring house (~1100sqft ranch style), when all my friends had bigger and better ones. (I will say, however, that my parents had zero sense of interior design, so that didn't help.) Now, I can't imagine wanting a house much bigger than that. We accumulate way too much crap already, plus I hate cleaning our 600 sqft 1/1 apartment, so I have no desire to clean much more than that. :P

DH and my dream home is a 1000 sqft 2/2 "green" home with space for a garden and a smal workshop for DH to tinker in.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #122 on: July 09, 2015, 09:34:26 AM »
Ironically, when I was younger I wanted a big, really nice house ... now that I could easily afford to buy such a house, my wants have changed.  I want something smaller, more efficient, and with less maintenance.

Ha... same here. As a kid I was always so embarrassed that we had a small, boring house (~1100sqft ranch style), when all my friends had bigger and better ones. (I will say, however, that my parents had zero sense of interior design, so that didn't help.) Now, I can't imagine wanting a house much bigger than that. We accumulate way too much crap already, plus I hate cleaning our 600 sqft 1/1 apartment, so I have no desire to clean much more than that. :P

DH and my dream home is a 1000 sqft 2/2 "green" home with space for a garden and a smal workshop for DH to tinker in.
Passivhaus FTW!

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #123 on: July 09, 2015, 10:20:04 AM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #124 on: July 09, 2015, 10:25:28 AM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area. 

Cookie78

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #125 on: July 09, 2015, 10:35:19 AM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I can't speak for other people, but I'd like a small house on a large piece of land that is low maintenance and relatively rural (lower taxes generally). I don't want a large landscaped lot with just a lot of lawn that has to be mowed, but something much more natural with native plants, trees, and perennials. I do want space for a large garden, which can require a lot of maintenance itself, but gardening is the type of work I enjoy immensely.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #126 on: July 09, 2015, 11:08:58 AM »

We noticed when we were house shopping - we'd see these newer condos.  The living room would be tiny - barely big enough for a small sofa, maybe a chair.  But the master bedroom and bath were HUGE.  Who entertains in the master bedroom?  Not me.  Not other people anyway.

And your bathroom habits in the middle of the night don't need to change when you have kids.

I told my realtor I wanted a shower big enough to throw a party in.  Now, I haven't and don't plan to- but it is nice to have the room.  Thankfully, our builder was smart enough to not put in the stupid "garden tub".  We do have a tub in the 2nd bathroom; but having a jacuzzi tub is just parts to break and more for me to clean.  I'm glad to not have that.

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #127 on: July 09, 2015, 12:20:48 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I can't speak for other people, but I'd like a small house on a large piece of land that is low maintenance and relatively rural (lower taxes generally). I don't want a large landscaped lot with just a lot of lawn that has to be mowed, but something much more natural with native plants, trees, and perennials. I do want space for a large garden, which can require a lot of maintenance itself, but gardening is the type of work I enjoy immensely.

I moved to a 13.5 acre lot that is mostly wooded.  My lawn maintaince is negligble, and less than I would have to do with a 0.25 acre lot in the city, just to keep the neighborhood overseers happy.  An additional benefit of living in a private wooded park, is that the trees themselves have a market value. There is an oak tree next to my driveway that has a $2000 standing timber value (standing value means that is the value before the expenses of cutting it down and shipping it to the mill, because I'm sure not going to do that job myself.).  Granted, it's the most valuable tree on the property, but I do have a lot of trees overall.  I also have a woodstove, and though I don't have to, I could heat entirely with cut wood and never make a dent in the total volume (or likely value) of the standing timber. 

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2015, 12:46:52 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?
3/2. Probably $1.5M-$2 depending on the condition and lot size.
In SoCal even the old 1950's 3/2 ranches with a 2 car garage in a working class 'hood go for 1/2 million or more. Some are torn down and converted to McMansions, some are extended into the huge (by city standard) back yard, but most are just lived in or rented out. The closer you get to the beach or the more improved the house, the higher the price jumps by a lot. Not 2007 levels yet but getting up there. Hmmm.... didn't some crazy woman have a thread somewhere here where they said they weren't going to sell their old 3/2 1950's house in SoCal yet for some crazy reason?  Some body should probably talk some sense into that girl :-)!
Yep, here on the "Central Coast", Goleta 3/2 would be $750k-800k, depending on the 'hood.  Santa Barbara, or one of the really good school districts, easily $900k+
Oh yeah the Central Coast, and especially Santa Barbara area, is crazy. Looked at prices up there for tiny places that are in the million-plus range. Just crazy. A couple of houses in my hood like mine, 1000 sf old 1950's house, just sold as "as-is fixers" for over $500K.

I really like the small houses in Laguna Beach, but the prices are still out of this world. 

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2015, 01:58:56 PM »

I told my realtor I wanted a shower big enough to throw a party in.

While touring a Homa-Rama show home some years ago, this million dollar house had a master bathroom with 6 showerheads in one large open stall.  My teenaged daughter asked, "what would anyone do with a single shower this large?"  I simply said, "Host an orgy."

I'm a red panda

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #130 on: July 09, 2015, 02:07:17 PM »

I told my realtor I wanted a shower big enough to throw a party in.

While touring a Homa-Rama show home some years ago, this million dollar house had a master bathroom with 6 showerheads in one large open stall.  My teenaged daughter asked, "what would anyone do with a single shower this large?"  I simply said, "Host an orgy."

Yeah- I only have one shower head.  Which is a little sad, I want 2.

6 sounds like a bigger  than necessary party :)  It's basically a locker room.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #131 on: July 09, 2015, 02:15:54 PM »

I told my realtor I wanted a shower big enough to throw a party in.

While touring a Homa-Rama show home some years ago, this million dollar house had a master bathroom with 6 showerheads in one large open stall.  My teenaged daughter asked, "what would anyone do with a single shower this large?"  I simply said, "Host an orgy."

Yeah- I only have one shower head.  Which is a little sad, I want 2.

6 sounds like a bigger  than necessary party :)  It's basically a locker room.

Like 6 shower heads all at normal height, or one of those full-body showers with 6 things shooting at various heights onto your body? 

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #132 on: July 09, 2015, 02:22:57 PM »

I told my realtor I wanted a shower big enough to throw a party in.

While touring a Homa-Rama show home some years ago, this million dollar house had a master bathroom with 6 showerheads in one large open stall.  My teenaged daughter asked, "what would anyone do with a single shower this large?"  I simply said, "Host an orgy."

Yeah- I only have one shower head.  Which is a little sad, I want 2.

6 sounds like a bigger  than necessary party :)  It's basically a locker room.

Like 6 shower heads all at normal height, or one of those full-body showers with 6 things shooting at various heights onto your body?

They were 6 shower heads at a normal height, spaced around a room a bit bigger than a typical walk-in closet, each had a set of controls.

Rural

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #133 on: July 09, 2015, 05:23:17 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I can't speak for other people, but I'd like a small house on a large piece of land that is low maintenance and relatively rural (lower taxes generally). I don't want a large landscaped lot with just a lot of lawn that has to be mowed, but something much more natural with native plants, trees, and perennials. I do want space for a large garden, which can require a lot of maintenance itself, but gardening is the type of work I enjoy immensely.

I moved to a 13.5 acre lot that is mostly wooded.  My lawn maintaince is negligble, and less than I would have to do with a 0.25 acre lot in the city, just to keep the neighborhood overseers happy.  An additional benefit of living in a private wooded park, is that the trees themselves have a market value. There is an oak tree next to my driveway that has a $2000 standing timber value (standing value means that is the value before the expenses of cutting it down and shipping it to the mill, because I'm sure not going to do that job myself.).  Granted, it's the most valuable tree on the property, but I do have a lot of trees overall.  I also have a woodstove, and though I don't have to, I could heat entirely with cut wood and never make a dent in the total volume (or likely value) of the standing timber.


Out "lot" is 25 acres of old growth forest under a conservation easement so the taxes are lower than last e. No maintenance whatsoever and no appeasing the neighbors - we don't have lawn and the house is not visible from the road or any adjacent properties, just woods. Now, the private road in takes considerable maintenance...

dragoncar

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2015, 11:21:57 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?
3/2. Probably $1.5M-$2 depending on the condition and lot size.
In SoCal even the old 1950's 3/2 ranches with a 2 car garage in a working class 'hood go for 1/2 million or more. Some are torn down and converted to McMansions, some are extended into the huge (by city standard) back yard, but most are just lived in or rented out. The closer you get to the beach or the more improved the house, the higher the price jumps by a lot. Not 2007 levels yet but getting up there. Hmmm.... didn't some crazy woman have a thread somewhere here where they said they weren't going to sell their old 3/2 1950's house in SoCal yet for some crazy reason?  Some body should probably talk some sense into that girl :-)!

Funny, I was just reading about Lakewood (prototypical California suburb) and found this to be typical:

https://www.redfin.com/CA/Lakewood/6117-Castana-Ave-90712/home/7546419

We designed and built our place from blueprints to trim (said trim still largely undone) and built for efficiency.

*snip bunch of cool stuff*

C.... can I get your plans?  That sounds great.

Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

We are virtually the same age. I'm also an Oregon-trail millennial. So we are probably equally as good/bad about predicting what our peers will do :).

I can tell you, however, that barring unforeseen and extreme circumstances, there is no way in hell I will ever have a McMansion. I could have comfortably mortgaged myself into one quite some time ago, but have preferred to rent smaller spaces, even as I've added family members. Even when I've considred buying, I have never once been tempted by a huge home.

I would guess that most people who are regulars around here do not suddenly shift to wanting McMansions many years after their entry into adulthood. We want FI and/or ER instead.

I'm not talking about YOU, I'm talking about OUR GENERATION.  McMansions?  Probably not for most of us, but are we, as a generation, going to continue to flock to small condos in the city near indy coffee shops?  No.  Hell, my own street is currently undergoing a revolution of sorts as all the old people who own homes last udated in 1975 either die off or move to assisted living, and sell their older, modestly sized (2000sq ft, +/-), single family homes to 30-somethings with kids and we are all remodeling them, etc, because even though they're smallish and outdated, they're in a great school district and we have young kids, so that's what we do.

I think remodeling existing, modest homes in good school districts will be the more common route, instead of McMansions.  This millennial recently moved into a modest (2550 tri-level, including basement), 1950s house that was severely outdated.  Our neighborhood is filled with them. It's conveniently located, reasonably priced, just-big-enough, and in a good school district.  There are restaurants and local businesses nearby.  There will be a wave of older people who will start selling their houses over the next decade, and I think coupled millennials who have or want kids will move in.

Recent (biased?) surveys show that Millennials by and large do in fact want buy a house in the suburbs, but just can't afford it.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/millennials-prefer-single-family-homes-in-the-suburbs-1421896797

I'm on the leading edge of this group (I don't entirely fit the millennial or genx mode) and I've definitely noticed my friends migrating out of the cities when they start getting married and having kids.  I love the cities, but I also love peace and quiet.  Right now I split the difference by working in the city and commuting from the suburbs.  The commute is long, but it's train time where I get my internet on or just relax.  Honestly, I think there's a genetic reason the suburbs were popular to begin with and they will continue to be popular as long as cities lack sufficient green and personal space. 

In the near future, I think we can go two ways:

1) millennials stay in the cities and forge according to their developing needs (building new parks, creating better schools, enacting better noise ordinances and enforcement, etc.)

2) millennials move out to the suburbs, but densify those suburbs in the process (again forging the suburbs to their preferences).  In my local area, we have severe building shortages primarily because the stereotypical suburb is environmentally unsustainable.  this causes large single family houses to skyrocket out of affordability for young people.  But we can still build a bunch of townhouses and condos in the suburban center near transit, and we are quickly moving in that direction.  These properties are more of a middle ground between the urban city you want in your 20s and the suburban tranquility you want in your 40s.

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #135 on: July 10, 2015, 07:19:57 AM »
What is happening in Chicagoland is that young people used to move downtown, then when they went to the suburbs they went to the newest one which was farthest west.  Then, as commute times skyrocketed and the bubble popped, the thing to do now is to buy an older house in a neighborhood full of old people, and either remodel it or knock it down and build something new.  Gradually, neighborhoods full of elderly are turning into neighborhoods full of 20- and 30-somethings with young families.  These neighborhoods are more walkable, have lots of parks, close to public transportation, have strong "mini downtown areas", etc. 

Rural

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #136 on: July 10, 2015, 08:35:25 AM »
^^Dragoncar, you can see the plans, but I should warn you they're done in an old version of Corel, circa 2006 or so, because that was (barely) good enough to do it and we had it already. So you need old software to read it properly. I think I could produce a pdf but that would flatten the layers.


The pipes are pretty much exactly as mapped, by the way. But the electrical underwent some...deviation on install. :-)

nobodyspecial

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #137 on: July 10, 2015, 08:41:10 AM »
Gradually, neighborhoods full of elderly are turning into neighborhoods full of 20- and 30-somethings with young families.
Damn kids rejuvenating the neighborhood and making it so an old person can safely walk the streets at night - bah

Chris22

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #138 on: July 10, 2015, 08:55:16 AM »
Gradually, neighborhoods full of elderly are turning into neighborhoods full of 20- and 30-somethings with young families.
Damn kids rejuvenating the neighborhood and making it so an old person can safely walk the streets at night - bah

Bah, my current neighborhood has always been safe, you're just less likely to be hit by a Buick going 5-under these days. 

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #139 on: July 10, 2015, 12:49:08 PM »

In the near future, I think we can go two ways:

1) millennials stay in the cities and forge according to their developing needs (building new parks, creating better schools, enacting better noise ordinances and enforcement, etc.)

2) millennials move out to the suburbs, but densify those suburbs in the process (again forging the suburbs to their preferences).  In my local area, we have severe building shortages primarily because the stereotypical suburb is environmentally unsustainable.  this causes large single family houses to skyrocket out of affordability for young people.  But we can still build a bunch of townhouses and condos in the suburban center near transit, and we are quickly moving in that direction.  These properties are more of a middle ground between the urban city you want in your 20s and the suburban tranquility you want in your 40s.


In my city of Louisville, which mostly avoided the "modern era" that destroyed urban neighborhoods after the rise of happy motoring, there are some historic neighborhoods that fit the above very well.  They are relatively dense population wise, with scattered single family homes as well as condo & apartments buildings.  They are particularly walkable & bikable, with numerous public transit routes (and a high representation of Uber & Lyft drivers, the fuzzy pink mustaches are everywhere these days); and some are actually hostile to cars, as some blocks (of mostly townhomes) were designed an built before the 'happy motoring' era, when personally owned motorcars were for the rich, and actually have wide pedestrian paths down the center of the block.  They are basicly just wide enough for a single lane vehicle, and typically prohibit cars unless they have emergency vehicle lights or a special delivery permit that is usually only issued on Saturdays for those moving in or out.  In any case, the speed limit is never higher than 10 mph, and there are speed bumps & curbs that have been installed to disincentivize any driver from driving through the block, who actually cares about his car, more than once.  Nearly every building is that beautiful dark red brick that can't really be found anymore, and half of them are half covered in ivy.  In Louisville, these neighborhoods go by the names of Old Louisville, The Highlands, Tyler Park & Cherokee Triangle.  Also Portland (downtown by the riverfront, next to the Falls of the Ohio) to be in this group, because it's decently walkable, but there are no anti-vehicle blocks that I can think of.  All of these areas, excepting maybe Portland, have increased significantly in value as young couples have moved into these areas.

music lover

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #140 on: July 10, 2015, 01:58:23 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I have a smaller house (1000 sq. ft.) on a large lot. Large lots don't have to take a lot of time to maintain unless you want a perfect lawn. I'm happy with an "okay" lawn and don't care about perfection. I have 1.67 acres and it takes 70-75 minutes to cut with a riding mower (46" deck). Once a year I tow a sprayer behind it with weed killer, which keeps them at a minimal level.

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #141 on: July 10, 2015, 02:05:22 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I have a smaller house (1000 sq. ft.) on a large lot. Large lots don't have to take a lot of time to maintain unless you want a perfect lawn. I'm happy with an "okay" lawn and don't care about perfection. I have 1.67 acres and it takes 70-75 minutes to cut with a riding mower (46" deck). Once a year I tow a sprayer behind it with weed killer, which keeps them at a minimal level.

If you don't use that weed killer, and seed back in some clover, your lawn will be healthier even with a weed here or there.  I never spray chemicals on my lawn, and clover and most weeds are quite edible.  I have a backyard salad at least once each year.  Dandylion greens, comfrey & clover make a fine base for salad.  Throw in some tomatoes, bacon bits, crutons, grilled chicken and dressing; mmmm.

music lover

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #142 on: July 10, 2015, 02:48:30 PM »
Suburbs of Minneapolis are exploding with new house construction. These houses are 2-3 stories with 3000+ square feet and $450K and up. Unbelievable how many houses are being built and how fast they are selling. They all have at least 4 bedrooms, 3-4 bathrooms, "bonus" rooms on the bedroom level, formal dining rooms, office areas, etc. Way more house than I care to deal with.

The same thing is happening in the area around where I work except tack another $100k to the starting price. These houses are huge, often with 3 car garages, for example, and built right on top of each other to the point where the front of your house could be directly facing the side of the neighboring house not more than 20ft away. I think they are ugly and overpriced. They went up so blazingly fast, I have serious questions about the quality of construction.

My ideal house is 1250-1500sqf, 3bd/2ba, open concept living area, basement, 2 car garage, and about 2-3 acres for under $200k. I am not going to find such a thing in the area I live now and will eventually have to move out of state.

Always amuses me the number of people who want a small house "because a big one is too expensive and too much maintenance" but want a large (huge) lot.  Unless it's wooded, it's also going to be a lot of maintenance, and likely expensive in terms of taxes and upkeep. 

I'm on a ~.15 acre lot and it's great.  I can mow and weed-eat it in ~45 min.  Anything I want to do (say, re-sod it, mulch it, landscape it) is cheap because there isn't much of it.  And my taxes are (relatively) cheap for the area.

I have a smaller house (1000 sq. ft.) on a large lot. Large lots don't have to take a lot of time to maintain unless you want a perfect lawn. I'm happy with an "okay" lawn and don't care about perfection. I have 1.67 acres and it takes 70-75 minutes to cut with a riding mower (46" deck). Once a year I tow a sprayer behind it with weed killer, which keeps them at a minimal level.
I have a small house on a larger lot and just dug up the backyard and, for the most part, put in some drought resistant trees and plants and hardscape. Never have to do anything to it. Front is somewhat grassy (as is required by my city in drought stricken SoCal - DOH!) but did put on some brick patios and rock areas with drought tolerant plants so it's easy to care for too. And yes, being a proper mustashian, I did all the work myself (oh yeah, I'm badass :-)!). I think I planted about 100 cypress trees and had loaded up, unloaded, hauled around and laid a few tons of bricks and dug up a few tons of dirt. Fun times in homeownership... good reason o get a small condo next :-)!

I would love to add some trees, but am in a unique situation...my lot is 1 of about 15 properties in a group that are 116' wide x 629' deep in the middle of a 2 kilometre long residential road. All the other lots are only 200' deep. Also, the end of all the back yards is the border of the city and the neighbouring municipality. The municipality adjacent to our property lines is a farmer's field that was recently re-zoned as residential, and development is expected. Our hope (those of us with the 15 deep properties) is that the developer is interested in buying the back portion of our lots (429 feet) that juts out into the development. Based on land prices around here, it's a potential windfall well into 6 figures. So...no landscaping will be done until we find out if there is interest. While I do love my large yard, I am more than willing to give it up for the right amount of money... :)

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #143 on: July 10, 2015, 02:52:27 PM »

I would love to add some trees, but am in a unique situation...my lot is 1 of about 15 properties in a group that are 116' wide x 629' deep in the middle of a 2 kilometre long residential road. All the other lots are only 200' deep. Also, the end of all the back yards is the border of the city and the neighbouring municipality. The municipality adjacent to our property lines is a farmer's field that was recently re-zoned as residential, and development is expected. Our hope (those of us with the 15 deep properties) is that the developer is interested in buying the back portion of our lots (429 feet) that juts out into the development. Based on land prices around here, it's a potential windfall well into 6 figures. So...no landscaping will be done until we find out if there is interest. While I do love my large yard, I am more than willing to give it up for the right amount of money... :)

Don't get your hopes up. Most developers will not deal with building properties that cross municipalities, due to the additional complexity of dealing with two sets of permits.  It's also particularly difficult to sell a building lot that straddles the city/county line.  They might still need it for easements, or to make a park, but probably not.

music lover

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #144 on: July 10, 2015, 03:11:34 PM »

I would love to add some trees, but am in a unique situation...my lot is 1 of about 15 properties in a group that are 116' wide x 629' deep in the middle of a 2 kilometre long residential road. All the other lots are only 200' deep. Also, the end of all the back yards is the border of the city and the neighbouring municipality. The municipality adjacent to our property lines is a farmer's field that was recently re-zoned as residential, and development is expected. Our hope (those of us with the 15 deep properties) is that the developer is interested in buying the back portion of our lots (429 feet) that juts out into the development. Based on land prices around here, it's a potential windfall well into 6 figures. So...no landscaping will be done until we find out if there is interest. While I do love my large yard, I am more than willing to give it up for the right amount of money... :)

Don't get your hopes up. Most developers will not deal with building properties that cross municipalities, due to the additional complexity of dealing with two sets of permits.  It's also particularly difficult to sell a building lot that straddles the city/county line.  They might still need it for easements, or to make a park, but probably not.

I'm not counting on it, but it's not unrealistic, either. Just a couple miles away the border between the city and the municipality runs down the middle of the street. There's no reason why they can't do the same over here. Empty lots, regardless their location in the city or the municipality all get sold as soon as the hit the market.

The 15 properties have a total of 17 acres of prime real estate...you can build a lot of houses on 17 acres, and if a builder thinks that they can make a profit, they will do the paperwork. The lots don't have to straddle a city/municipal border if a development is laid out properly.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 03:14:11 PM by music lover »

MoonShadow

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #145 on: July 10, 2015, 04:33:00 PM »
Best of luck, music.

Windward

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #146 on: July 12, 2015, 01:46:47 PM »
Interesting articles. In my peer group, there are really two types of people: those who want big houses, who are buying now, and those who want to get and stay debt-free, and have decided that getting 'just enough' house is one way to do that. The latter group is much bigger, but many of those folks are still renting very small apartments.

It will be interesting to see how/if this changes over the next 10-20 years. I was under the impression that most millennials are flocking to smaller places in cities, but maybe my perception is skewed by my own experiences.

 

Millenials are flocking to smaller places in cities because they are generally young, have no kids, and things like "proximity to good bars" is more important than "in a good school district." 

That will change as they progress in life and start popping out kids, etc. 

Circle of life.

Unless my friends , peers, and I are serious anomalies, I would be surprised if what you said will be true.  Sure, most millenials are interested in ultimately living somewhere with good schools, but we are also very interested in living close to work and other fun stuff, in living in a low-maintenance place, and in avoiding large debts. We also mock the McMansions of our parents' generation, and have lived very frugally, both out of necessity (due to the economy) and because of high student debt loads. Many don't even want children.

Besides my one friend who wants four kids and grew up very poor, I can't think of a single friend (even the spendthrift ones) who has expressed a desire for the McMansion lifestyle.

Also, proximity to bars can easily be found in suburbs and rural areas. Short commutes, the ability to live without cars, and a thriving arts and culture scene are the things keeping my friends and me in cities.

I'm 33.  I'm probably not a lot older than you (I'm the bleeding edge of the millenials, the "Oregon Trail" generation if you will).  Trust me, you think you have it all planned.  You don't. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Z91YkPatw

I'm older than you, and we're still running with a crowd that tends not to have children or houses in the suburbs.  Obviously this isn't mainstream, but with 10% of women remaining childfree through choice, it's not that unusual either.

Once children are out of the equation, the appeals of the typical suburban lifestyle is diminished.  Once life isn't about raising the next generation, the city has a lot of advantages.

Ynari

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #147 on: July 12, 2015, 02:43:39 PM »
Great! This means older "small" 3 bed/2 bath homes will soon be selling for a pittance right?

I hope so!

I'd have to argue, though, about the "Millenials will eventually grow up, have children, move to the suburbs, and buy big houses" thing, that some of that is because the housing market does not always allow you to get what you want exactly, and sometimes it's easier/cheaper to let the size creep up than it is to mandate that you want X, Y, and Z in a house under 2000 sq ft.  (As some people mentioned up thread, the choice is often settling or building yourself, which can take a long time).  My parents just moved to an area for work where houses under 3000 sq ft don't really exist, outside of low income neighborhoods and townhouses. So, what happens when a millennial couple gets a job in the area, wants a house with a spare bedroom for a hypothetical kid, in a good neighborhood? They're facing a market with tons of 3000 sq ft houses, and it's a lot easier to just say "Eh, it's got everything we need, so what if it's a little big?" than to fight for a more reasonably sized place. Those who build houses these days know that they'll have a larger market with a big house than with a small one, so if they're going to put in good features anyway, they build big. Houses come in really awkward "one size fits all" types and size is something that scales with niceness because of salability.

Tabaxus

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #148 on: July 12, 2015, 02:45:45 PM »
I have no desire to have a McMansion, but a desperately want a yard, my own (reasonably-sized) house  rather than apartment living, and the ability to have a large dog without feeling guilty about it being penned up in an apartment.

Some of this is probably because I've never had a yard or lived in a house, and so I'm over-idealizing the good parts (yard=grill + growing stuff + place for dog to romp around; house=my own fucking place, finally, with which I can do what I want re painting, remodeling, etc.) and under-appreciating the bad parts (lack of proximity to "stuff," although I don't take advantage of the "stuff" around me in my urban life because it costs too damned much; house upkeep costs; time for house upkeep; because I have never lived in anything but an apartment, I don't really have handyman skills, and it remains to be seen how effectively I can pick them up).


Abe

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Re: Big Houses back in demand
« Reply #149 on: July 13, 2015, 03:54:10 AM »
Taxabus, I agree with your list of good and bad parts of home ownership, but find the upkeep time/costs are fairly low if your house if relatively new (built in early 90s or later). You're not over-idealizing the good parts. I've been living in Chicago for 6 years and can't wait to have a stand-alone house again.