Bankrate: "Take it slow on a personal loan for a horse"

[slugline]

"The average horse loan is about $20,000. . . ."

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/loans/take-it-slow-on-personal-loan-for-horse.aspx

I dunno -- perhaps a horse loan could be justifiable if there's no car in your life and the horse is literally your everyday transportation? :) In the pre-automobile era, did families finance horses?

[ringer707]

Yup, know multiple people who have done this. One took out somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000 to buy a horse. Horse got injured and she had to give it away, while continuing to pay the loan. I spend a significant amount on my horses each month- it truly is a lifestyle and not just a hobby. But I would never, ever be stupid enough to take out a loan to purchase a horse. I had to give up showing for 3 years after my horse was injured because I couldn't afford to purchase a new horse, and the thought never even crossed my mind to take out a loan to get one.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

"The average horse loan is about $20,000. . . ."

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/loans/take-it-slow-on-personal-loan-for-horse.aspx

I dunno -- perhaps a horse loan could be justifiable if there's no car in your life and the horse is literally your everyday transportation? :) In the pre-automobile era, did families finance horses?

The expense isn't just for the horse. Horses need somewhere to live and something to eat. They also need daily care and exercise, and that means space. It's not cheap to board a horse, and land and a stable aren't exactly free either. Add in the cost of vet bills, tack, a trailer to take the horse longer distances, and a vehicle capable of pulling that trailer, and that's a serious five-figure to six-figure purchase.

Horses aren't for the casual hobbyist. Chickens, rabbits, maybe goats or a couple pigs for a suburban farm or on an acreage... ok. A horse is an entirely different level. You could even get and keep a cow more cheaply. There's a reason why owning a horse was considered a sign of nobility or independent wealth, back in the day.

[K-ice]

I was 16 when I basically calculated the ROI on show fees.

When I realized I would need to place 4th or better every day, or win on the last day, I decided to Groom that week and make money instead of show.

We were quite competitive, & my parents were willing to pay, but I just couldn't justify the costs.  I felt that if you were in the ribbons every day (6th or better) out of a class of about 50 then you should at least get your show fees paid for.  This didn't even include hauling, trainer fees, hotels, etc.

Horses & showing is soooooo expensive.  When I hear of someone complaining between the price of a $10,000 vs $12,000 horse I just shake my head. They have no idea that another $12,000 will be easily gone in the next year anyway. And that is just doing local small shows.

Horses are incredible animals. And the bond children can make with them is a great past-time. I have heard parents thank horses for keeping their kids out of drugs or from getting pregnant.

But I would need about another $600K in FIRE money to support an annual $24K horse habit for myself or my child.
That's just not happening :(

[ncornilsen]

I grew up showing horses, English/jumping/eventing mostly. I did it by buying race-track horses at 5 years old, training them, and selling them. Ran second hand gear, and a saddle that didn't fit perfectly. It was the only way my parents could afford to do it, and at that, barely. We had a ranch and barn anyway, so there wasn't that cost at least. The second hand gear eventually did start to hold me back, and I eventually gave up the hobby because I wasn't good enough to make a living of it, as a trainer or sponsored rider, and to really continue advancing I needed a lot of money in gear. It wasn't worth it. Especially since it would have really made college difficult.

I really, REALLY wish I would have continued riding, though. The people I know from riding are among the best people I know, and those I have the deepest friendships with.

and during all that, I never, once, heard of a horse loan. not once.

[MrsPete]

I know a girl who RENTS a horse. 

She pays X amount every month, and it lives at a horse farm.  She's allowed to ride it as often as she likes, and if she doesn't go to ride it, no problem -- the owners are there to take care of it.  I asked whether she could still go ride this same horse if she didn't "rent".  She said sure, she could -- she could just pay for that one day's ride.  I said I wasn't getting the point of renting the horse, and she looked at me like I had three heads -- she explained that by renting, she always gets to ride the same horse, and they form a bond -- and part of that is that she is responsible for its financial care.  I guess the horse knows who pays for its oats?  The other benefit is that if she opts to stop renting, she is under no obligation to continue; that is, she has no contract -- it's a month-to-month thing.

I still don't get it, but she told me that lots of people rent.  In fact, I think a couple people are renting this same horse together. 

It's quite possible I didn't explain this right because it totally makes no sense to me; however, my questions clearly made her uncomfortable, so maybe I did understand it -- and it just makes no sense. 

[slugline]

I still don't get it, but she told me that lots of people rent.  In fact, I think a couple people are renting this same horse together. 

So, like a timeshare rental, but it's a horse instead of a vacation property?

[MgoSam]

No that doesn't make any sense to me. I could maybe see something if it meant that only she could ride that horse, but otherwise it sounds like the people that own the horse farm are getting everything subsidized by them.

Is there a chance that based on how often she rides "her" horse that it comes out to being cheaper than single day rides?

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Probably, loan-wise, the best answer would be not aye but "neigh".

[MgoSam]

Well played!

[ringer707]

I know a girl who RENTS a horse. 

She pays X amount every month, and it lives at a horse farm.  She's allowed to ride it as often as she likes, and if she doesn't go to ride it, no problem -- the owners are there to take care of it.  I asked whether she could still go ride this same horse if she didn't "rent".  She said sure, she could -- she could just pay for that one day's ride.  I said I wasn't getting the point of renting the horse, and she looked at me like I had three heads -- she explained that by renting, she always gets to ride the same horse, and they form a bond -- and part of that is that she is responsible for its financial care.  I guess the horse knows who pays for its oats?  The other benefit is that if she opts to stop renting, she is under no obligation to continue; that is, she has no contract -- it's a month-to-month thing.

I still don't get it, but she told me that lots of people rent.  In fact, I think a couple people are renting this same horse together. 

It's quite possible I didn't explain this right because it totally makes no sense to me; however, my questions clearly made her uncomfortable, so maybe I did understand it -- and it just makes no sense.

This is very common. It's called a lease. I leased my first horse prior to purchasing him. You do get a better bond with the horse. Sometimes multiple people will lease the same horse, but usually just one. This ensured that I could show that horse at horse shows and I had the first righto buy him when he went up for sale. By leasing, you often don't pay vet bills/farrier bills, etc. Just the lower monthly fee for leasing. Much, much cheaper than actually owning a horse, though I can understand how it may sound odd to some.

[MgoSam]

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost in your area to rent a horse for a ride for fun? I haven't ridden since I was a kid and I recall it being a thrill.

[MrsPete]

No that doesn't make any sense to me. I could maybe see something if it meant that only she could ride that horse, but otherwise it sounds like the people that own the horse farm are getting everything subsidized by them.

Is there a chance that based on how often she rides "her" horse that it comes out to being cheaper than single day rides?

Benefits are all for the owner -- that's exactly what I thought, but my rent-a-horse friend says I don't get it. 

I suppose it could come out cheaper if you ride every day, but when the horse is not physically on your property, I suspect it'd be hard to ride every day.   

This is very common. It's called a lease.

Yeah, well that stands to reason.  After all, lease is a synonym for rent; a car lease, for example, is just a long-term rental. 

[TrMama]

I rode as a teen and despite my best efforts my two kids are now super interested in riding. When I was a kid, we lived in a cheaper area where it only cost $150/mo for board (food and stable rent for the horse) and shoes were only $75/8 weeks. It made more financial sense to buy.

The town we live in now, board is $750/mo. Or I can lease a horse for $200/mo, that allows the kids to ride twice a week. Plus, I'm not responsible for any of the other costs. Horse shoes ($195/8 weeks), vet (don't want to know), equipment ($600 to get set up), depreciation on the animal itself ($2K ish?).

Plus, a horse is not like a bicycle you don't ride anymore. If we were to buy a horse and then decide we didn't want it anymore, we're still stuck with the monthly fees for its care until it can be sold and frankly, horses can be really hard to sell. In fact, there are always lots around that people are trying to give away. So, if your friend's costs are similar to ours, then I think leasing is the lesser of the two evils. It's certainly less financially risky.

[ringer707]

No that doesn't make any sense to me. I could maybe see something if it meant that only she could ride that horse, but otherwise it sounds like the people that own the horse farm are getting everything subsidized by them.

Is there a chance that based on how often she rides "her" horse that it comes out to being cheaper than single day rides?

Benefits are all for the owner -- that's exactly what I thought, but my rent-a-horse friend says I don't get it. 

I suppose it could come out cheaper if you ride every day, but when the horse is not physically on your property, I suspect it'd be hard to ride every day.   

This is very common. It's called a lease.

Yeah, well that stands to reason.  After all, lease is a synonym for rent; a car lease, for example, is just a long-term rental.

Not sure what you mean. I just meant it's referred to as leasing a horse; you wouldn't ever say you're "renting" a horse. If you're leasing a horse, you generally intend to lease it for an extended period of time.

[ringer707]

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost in your area to rent a horse for a ride for fun? I haven't ridden since I was a kid and I recall it being a thrill.

I have friends that do guided trail rides on their property where you basically just show up, get a brief lesson on how to steer, stop, etc., and ride for an hour and a half for $80. I think it all depends on where you are/what you're trying to do. I know more touristy areas can be extremely high. I traveled out west several years ago and really wanted to trail ride in the mountains but couldn't really stomach paying hundreds of dollars to ride for a couple hours when I've got six horses at home!

[K-ice]

I have honestly never come across a place that will let you "rent" a horse for an hour.  You can take lessons, on a lesson horse, for an hour but that is supervised. Also, depending on the stable, you will probably be given a different horse each week.

You can also take a trail horse out in many areas, but that almost always comes with a guide.

"renting" a horse for an hour is just a bad idea for many reasons. I do know it exists, but I worked a few summers at a stable and we used to get calls about "renting" and I couldn't even refer them to anyone in the area.

You can, however, lease a horse for a month or more. This is a great way to see if you are ready for the commitment of horse ownership. When you lease, or 1/2 lease, you are responsible for the board and standard vet fees.  But you get access to the horse for lessons, shows and hacking as if they were your own. With a 1/2 lease there is usually an agreement that one person gets the use of the horse for 3 days, the other the other 3 days and one day rest.  Depending on the quality of the horse and the rider you may get the horse for free (good rider, young horse) or for upto $10,000 per month (amateur rider, grand prix horse).


So "renting" and "leasing" are two very different things in the horse industry, and I hope this helps clarify the difference.

[MicroRN]

I would never take out a loan for a horse, but I mostly trail ride.  My previous two horses cost $800 and $1000 to buy, and my next one will be in a similar price range.  Showing can get insanely expensive.  Once you hit a certain level, horses run in the tens of thousands, then you board somewhere very expensive, pay for lessons and training rides, show fees, trailering, grooming, braiding, entry fees, and more.

Leasing horses is quite common.  I've half-leased several during the time I haven't owned horses and financially it's been much better than owning.  HUGE benefit - horse get sick or injured and it is not your problem.  You can typically end the lease at any time, so if horse is lame and will need a couple months of recovery, you can move on to a rideable horse.  On a half-lease, you usually pay a flat rate, and then get to ride three days a week.  The owner pays for the hooves to be trimmed and for vet bills, unless you agree otherwise.  The down side is that you don't get to make the decisions for the horse, and can't just go do whatever you want with them.

I also at one point got to ride a much nicer horse than I could have afforded at the time.  He was an older show horse, with a ton of experience and ability - the kind who sold for over $75K when he was in his prime.  I was able to become a much better rider during the time I leased him and then when his owner retired him, I no longer had to pay anything.  In contrast, I owned an elderly horse that I paid for for years after he could no longer be ridden. 

[gimp]

Christ on a pogo stick.

A business loan on a horse - fine - you know what you're doing, you're using revolving credit. If you fail, that's the cost of business sometimes.

A personal loan on a horse - are you fucking kidding? What next, a personal loan on a couch and a TV? Oh wait, that's what a credit card is for many people.