The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: BTH7117 on March 03, 2016, 07:22:11 PM
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"The average amount financed on a new vehicle in the U.S. was $29,551 – a 4 percent or $1,170 increase over 2014 – while monthly payments grew to $493, a 2.3 percent or $11 jump."
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2016/03/car-loan-amounts-payments-rise.html/
Woof
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I'm buying a new car after 15 years, and total cost will be $27k cash. This is for a fully equipped suv meant to last another 15 years. This is on an income well above average. Are these the same people complaining about having no savings?
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Typically writers use "average" to refer to arithmetic mean. I'd prefer to see the median figures as well, as I think that gives a better feel what's happening. Some stupid inflation in the luxury segment can overweight the overall market.
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That's approximately 6 years at 6%. Or a 5-yr, 0% loan.
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Even fairly utilitarian vehicles like Toyota Camrys, minivans, etc. are starting at around $25k these days after tax.
If you put down a decent 20% with a 3/0.9% you're talking a $570 payment. A 4 year/1.9% term is $430, and a 5 year term if $350/2.9% you're at $360/month. And most people aren't going to qualify for those rates.
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i saw the news today that new car sales are averaging almost $39,000 and more people are choosing to lease, or "resorting to buying a used car". Who buys new cars? certainly not people with maxed out 403s.
I saw some idiot a few years younger than me driving a brand new, $50k pick up yesterday. Got jealous for a second, and then got over it. I could do that, too, if I spent every dime I made and didn't invest anything. And canceled my health insurance, and ran some credit card debt. that idiot was stuck at the same traffic light as me though, so the light changed and my $7k, 9 year old bad-ass truck turned to the house I own. I got over being envious
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I have a coworker who purchased a full sized Nissan pickup for ~$25k out the door financed for an astounding 5 years @ 11.3% APR (that is NOT a typo).
Since we began working here together he has made ~$100k in the past 15 months and STILL hasn't refinanced at a lower APR or paid it off in full.
'murica
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I'm buying a new car after 15 years, and total cost will be $27k cash. This is for a fully equipped suv meant to last another 15 years. This is on an income well above average. Are these the same people complaining about having no savings?
My intentions as well eventually. My numbers will be longer though. We're at 16/18 yrs with the current rides and I think I can get another 5 years out of either of them without much effort. If only I could buy something new(er) with a manual transmission again.
Most of what I'd like to buy is available in the rest of the world with a turbo diesel and a variety of gasoline engines paired with manual transmissions. Not here though. Nope. One gas engine and some sort of automatic... -grumble grumble-
Side bonus to the old cars: What I am enjoying with a smirk are a few people who complain about how old our cars are. They're shiny, clean and respectable. Apparently I'm one of those people who drives the same car for most of their adult life and this is a bad thing to some.
Car payment vs paid off mortgage... Hmmmm... ;)
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Bought a new pickup for the business this week.
Basic F-250, 8' bed 1-1/2 cab, gas engine, rubber floors, vinyl seats and the minimal accessories package which still gets you AC, cruise control, a nice radio, etc.
$35,000
My first house was $25,000
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Wow - I had no idea that the basic truck was that expensive now... Someone told me last year that the four door Jeeps that seem to be everywhere here are $35K+ and I was so surprised.
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My intentions as well eventually. My numbers will be longer though. We're at 16/18 yrs with the current rides and I think I can get another 5 years out of either of them without much effort. If only I could buy something new(er) with a manual transmission again.
Most of what I'd like to buy is available in the rest of the world with a turbo diesel and a variety of gasoline engines paired with manual transmissions. Not here though. Nope. One gas engine and some sort of automatic... -grumble grumble-
I am very sad to see the demise of the manual transmission here in America. :(
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Wow - I had no idea that the basic truck was that expensive now... Someone told me last year that the four door Jeeps that seem to be everywhere here are $35K+ and I was so surprised.
The F-250 is not a basic truck. The basic truck is something like a Nissan Frontier at 18k for 2WD, 26k for 4WD.
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I don't think it's as bad as you describe it. Materials, labor and such are inflation governed. A bolt that cost 10 cents 10 years ago is now 20 cents, labor for assembling and making parts is higher nowadays. I still remember bananas for $0.19/lb in 2004 when I first came to the US, now you cannot find them cheaper than $0.49/lb in Chicago area.
Note: I will never buy new car
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Jeebus. I'm so out of the loop on this sort of thing that it's so shocking to see it in black and white.
That's more than half my mortgage (+taxes/insurance) payment! It's more than the PITI payment on my rental property.
So glad I got my head on straight with regards to cars early on. I always have a sense of pride derping along in our 1992 and 1999 cars each bought for a song.
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FYI -
That F-250 at $35K is 2WD and about as stripped down as what you can buy for a full size truck.
It's 3/4 ton vs standard 1/2 ton, but going to the 1/2 ton F-150 only saves about $2-3,000.
The Nissan Frontier isn't a full size truck, their Titan model is and it costs more than the Fords.
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I had to go car shopping with my fiancee recently and while I knew that average monthly payments are often insane (and that interest rates are sometimes usurious, and cars can be financed for periods longer than 60 months), I was unprepared for the worthlessness of the special service contracts pushed by the dealership.
There were different tiers that totaled anywhere from $2,400 to $5,700 over the life of a 60-month loan for benefits like emergency towing and tire replacement, or providing replacement keys if yours are lost. I asked if people actually purchase those plans and the finance manager said yes, drivers who worry they wouldn't have enough money to cover unexpected expenses feel better just rolling it into the loan.
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We splurged two years ago on a 17K used car. That hurt to pay cash for that, but I think it should hurt. That's one reason I like to pay cash for cars. It encourages you to spend less. Plus financing isn't usually good on used cars.
I just can't fathom spending more than 20K for a car, and on here, that number is still very spendypants. For 17K, we got a larger Ford sedan with 40K miles on it with all the silly extras like a sunroof and heated seats. We splurged on a nicer one because we wanted the back-up camera.
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I say never get financing for a depreciating asset, regardless of the interest. My time is better spent elsewhere than reading the financing dox (yes, you do need to read the dox to understand events of default, the covenants, fees/penalties, etc).
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Just thinking about the three times I am familiar with new car payments in my family
1963 Parents buy new Ford Station wagon. Remembering Mom saying it was a three year deal and I think it was $67 a month. bls.gov inflation calculator has that as $518.74 a month
1979 Me: new 1979 Honda Civic CVCC little down payment, maybe a couple hundred. $127.21 a month for three years. $415.13 in 2016 dollars
1987 Me: new Toyota Tercel (?) little down payment (still pretty stupid) $192.46 a month for 5 years (make that very stupid)..$401.38 in 2016 dollars
since then I save up and bought cash for decent used car with about 100,000 miles on it.
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We just hit 200k miles with our Accord. I am embarrassed to say how old our car is on a public forum.
I will tell you we are not holding an 11.3% interest loan on our wannabe Ferrari.
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I had to go car shopping with my fiancee recently and while I knew that average monthly payments are often insane (and that interest rates are sometimes usurious, and cars can be financed for periods longer than 60 months), I was unprepared for the worthlessness of the special service contracts pushed by the dealership.
There were different tiers that totaled anywhere from $2,400 to $5,700 over the life of a 60-month loan for benefits like emergency towing and tire replacement, or providing replacement keys if yours are lost. I asked if people actually purchase those plans and the finance manager said yes, drivers who worry they wouldn't have enough money to cover unexpected expenses feel better just rolling it into the loan.
Those things are 100% scam, and should frankly be outlawed. Last var I bought the dealer _really_ pushed hard to get me to buy a "6 year" extended warranty... that was hilariously CONCURRENT with the manufacturer warranty not in addition to. In other words, buying it was completely useless even for a paranoid person.
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I had to go car shopping with my fiancee recently and while I knew that average monthly payments are often insane (and that interest rates are sometimes usurious, and cars can be financed for periods longer than 60 months), I was unprepared for the worthlessness of the special service contracts pushed by the dealership.
There were different tiers that totaled anywhere from $2,400 to $5,700 over the life of a 60-month loan for benefits like emergency towing and tire replacement, or providing replacement keys if yours are lost. I asked if people actually purchase those plans and the finance manager said yes, drivers who worry they wouldn't have enough money to cover unexpected expenses feel better just rolling it into the loan.
Those things are 100% scam, and should frankly be outlawed. Last var I bought the dealer _really_ pushed hard to get me to buy a "6 year" extended warranty... that was hilariously CONCURRENT with the manufacturer warranty not in addition to. In other words, buying it was completely useless even for a paranoid person.
We had one of the "finance weasels" at a Nissan dealer actually forge documents to add a factory extended warranty to a car we bought. It was financed through Nissan and a quick call to them got things corrected. Oddly enough they didn't balk at all, almost as if it was a pretty common occurrence. A few payments later, Nissan made a data entry error with my monthly payment check . Recording it as $700, instead of the correct $200. The $500 extra in principal was a nice gift.
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We had one of the "finance weasels" at a Nissan dealer actually forge documents to add a factory extended warranty to a car we bought. It was financed through Nissan and a quick call to them got things corrected. Oddly enough they didn't balk at all, almost as if it was a pretty common occurrence.
That's what happened to us. My fiancee bought a used Civic that still has a few years left on the manufacturer's warranty and also came with a second, lesser certified pre-owned warranty of some sort. We passed on purchasing what they called an Easy Care service package. The first bill arrived a few days ago and they'd tacked on the cheapest Easy Care option that added over $2,000 to the loan. It was cleared up with a phone call and a fax but the sleaziness was overpowering.
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The really disturbing thing about this is the number of people that can't even secure financing. Many people are completely buried in their vehicles and end up right back at the dealer trying to roll $10k of negative equity into a new ride.
With all of these record numbers you would think that the auto manufacturers would be rolling in the dough...but not so much...many vehicles provide only a razor thin margin for the automakers.
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We had one of the "finance weasels" at a Nissan dealer actually forge documents to add a factory extended warranty to a car we bought. It was financed through Nissan and a quick call to them got things corrected. Oddly enough they didn't balk at all, almost as if it was a pretty common occurrence.
That's what happened to us. My fiancee bought a used Civic that still has a few years left on the manufacturer's warranty and also came with a second, lesser certified pre-owned warranty of some sort. We passed on purchasing what they called an Easy Care service package. The first bill arrived a few days ago and they'd tacked on the cheapest Easy Care option that added over $2,000 to the loan. It was cleared up with a phone call and a fax but the sleaziness was overpowering.
This is somewhat disturbing. We just bought a new Nissan and we definitely have a document saying we decline all of those packages. Hopefully the loan documents show up correctly.
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Im pretty sure car companies and dealers aren't in the car business, but rather the finance business. Unlike a personal loan for home improvement or a trip, it's for a tangible good with an easy to repossess product that can sell multiple times. They may not make much money on the sale (sometimes only $1000 over cost on a new car) but then it's 5% on that loan. Then its 8% again when they sell that same car a second time. They make money as the car depreciates, since they sell the car for 50k once, then maybe 30k the second time, and 15k each time after that.
we had a super d-bag finance guy when we last bought a car. my wife's was totaled and we needed a new one before getting the pay out on the last, so went through a credit union for 1%. why not? anyway, he kept telling me it was illegal to secure my own money, I had to go through them, and my credit union rates were 3%. He would have gotten that additional 2. I may have reminded him that I was smarter than him, knew my shit, and if he didn't shut his mouth my pregnant and injured wife was going to unleash hell on his supervisor.
Cleared those issues right up.
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Which is really fantastic news for the rest of us - or at east it would be if we ever bought new cars, even for cash.
It's like the budget airlines where all the other passengers happily contribute to paying my fare by buying seat upgrades, meals, $5 sodas and lottery tickets.
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A modern car has an average of 30000 parts, including all bolts, small screws and such. All of this has to be assembled. All of this has to be produced for the car to become one. A dollar per piece is not that scary after all, given that an engine block costs hundreds alone.
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A modern car has an average of 30000 parts, including all bolts, small screws and such. All of this has to be assembled. All of this has to be produced for the car to become one. A dollar per piece is not that scary after all, given that an engine block costs hundreds alone.
And yet I've driven very nice new cars that can be bought brand new today for less than half that amount. And If I bought one of those a few years old, I could do even better.
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I'm buying a new car with pretty much any feature one could want for a box that moves, for much less than $30,000 and getting a 1.5% rate for the loan (if they're giving that low a rate, might as well take it!). This amounts to well under $500/month. Whatever "deals" the average person thinks they are getting, they are sorely mistaken.
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A modern car has an average of 30000 parts, including all bolts, small screws and such. All of this has to be assembled. All of this has to be produced for the car to become one. A dollar per piece is not that scary after all, given that an engine block costs hundreds alone.
And yet I've driven very nice new cars that can be bought brand new today for less than half that amount. And If I bought one of those a few years old, I could do even better.
Oh yeah? Gimme a nice NEW car for 15k in 2015-2016 models. A fucking chevy cruze is 16+k
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A modern car has an average of 30000 parts, including all bolts, small screws and such. All of this has to be assembled. All of this has to be produced for the car to become one. A dollar per piece is not that scary after all, given that an engine block costs hundreds alone.
And yet I've driven very nice new cars that can be bought brand new today for less than half that amount. And If I bought one of those a few years old, I could do even better.
Oh yeah? Gimme a nice NEW car for 15k in 2015-2016 models. A fucking chevy cruze is 16+k
I can't speak for all sub-15k cars, but the two I have driven (Yaris and Fiesta) were just fine.
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A modern car has an average of 30000 parts, including all bolts, small screws and such. All of this has to be assembled. All of this has to be produced for the car to become one. A dollar per piece is not that scary after all, given that an engine block costs hundreds alone.
And yet I've driven very nice new cars that can be bought brand new today for less than half that amount. And If I bought one of those a few years old, I could do even better.
Oh yeah? Gimme a nice NEW car for 15k in 2015-2016 models. A fucking chevy cruze is 16+k
I can't speak for all sub-15k cars, but the two I have driven (Yaris and Fiesta) were just fine.
Yaris starts at 14895 for a bare bone nothing there model, add taxes, add fees.
One also needs to take into account that if an *average* US car (and that is size of at least a Passat, or even like a decent size SUV) hits a car half its weight..
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The interest rates that people are willing to finance cars at surprises me way more than the actual price of the cars they buy. A Model T in today's dollars would cost ~$20,000, whereas you can get a 15K brand new "economy" car that has features Henry couldn't have even dreamt about.
Im pretty sure car companies and dealers aren't in the car business, but rather the finance business.
You are completely correct. GM effectively invented auto financing and it's been hugely successful for automakers ever since. The book Borrow: The American Way of Debt goes into the history of auto financing and it's pretty interesting to see how things have changed over ~80 years.
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Have you good folks looked at Truecar and did you feel it was accurate enough to be useful?
What is the best way to find the invoice price of a car?
Thanks.
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Have you good folks looked at Truecar and did you feel it was accurate enough to be useful?
What is the best way to find the invoice price of a car?
Thanks.
That's pretty simple - the invoice price of a car can be as low as you want it to be. It's just you will never get it for this price. Market governs the price
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Kia Rio, Chevy Spark and Ford Fiesta are all below 15k brand new in my area - and we have a lot of naive and ignorant GIs getting their first car, so prices are often higher here.
They all have way more features than my 14 year old car and my wife's 10 year old car.
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Yaris starts at 14895 for a bare bone nothing there model, add taxes, add fees.
One also needs to take into account that if an *average* US car (and that is size of at least a Passat, or even like a decent size SUV) hits a car half its weight..
Well, only if you consider the actual impact on your life for what your driving will entail.
While SUVs or larger cars "win" in some car accidents, not all car accidents are going to be in situations where having a small car instead of an SUV matters. So while yes a larger car tends to have better results in accidents, there are a lot more factors at play (such as the relatively low frequency of accidents to begin with).
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Kia Rio, Chevy Spark and Ford Fiesta are all below 15k brand new in my area - and we have a lot of naive and ignorant GIs getting their first car, so prices are often higher here.
They all have way more features than my 14 year old car and my wife's 10 year old car.
Thanks! Looked at Spark which is indeed substantially lower than 15k for a base model.
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"The average amount financed on a new vehicle in the U.S. was $29,551 – a 4 percent or $1,170 increase over 2014 – while monthly payments grew to $493, a 2.3 percent or $11 jump."
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2016/03/car-loan-amounts-payments-rise.html/
Woof
But this is just new-new cars. So how many percent of car purchases is new cars vs used cars? People who buy brand new cars are better off than those who buy used (at least you'd hope..) so there are probably more luxury/expensive cars in that segment. I mean, if I'm the kind of person that only need a yaris, why would I care about buying new? But if I'm a millionaire with expensive tastes I'd want my BMW to be brand new. I agree the median would be more interesting.
I'd be curious about the new/used breakdown.
It does say used cars average $19k. That sounds pretty high to me. I've found a ton of fine used cars in the $12-18k range (I go for 2-3 years old, 50k miles), all except SUVs and minivans usually.
edit; found some info.
According to this article, 16.5 million new cars were sold in the US in 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/business/us-auto-sales-jump-for-2014.html
And this claiims that 41 MM used cars were sold
http://usedcars.about.com/od/research/a/Used-Car-Sales-Figures-From-2000-To-2014.htm
So the new/used breakdown is 29%/71%? That's pretty high used car percentage. Not as bad as I had thought actually.
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Most of what I'd like to buy is available in the rest of the world with a turbo diesel and a variety of gasoline engines paired with manual transmissions. Not here though. Nope. One gas engine and some sort of automatic... -grumble grumble-
+1!
I bought a manual Jeep patriot in 2011, hopefully in 2025 someone still makes a manual 4 cyl suv.... I wish I could have the turbo diesel.
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Both times we were looking at getting new (to us) cars we started looking used and then realized it was almost as cheap to just buy new, unless you want to go really used (5-6 years old with 80-100k miles on it). You just have to wait for the right times to buy new and buy the year before model. We just had a baby and needed a small SUV to visit family (we take our 2 dogs with us). The wife settled on a GMC Terrain, we started looking used, but wanted no more than 3-4 years and no more than 60k miles. We were able to get a new 2015 with everything the wife wanted for 10% more than the same Terrain used with 35-40k miles on it, we just waited until the end of the year when they wanted the 2015s off the lot. The KBB trade-in on our Terrain in "very good" condition Is actually about $5k more than we paid for it. If you look at very good private sale it's worth over $8k what we paid for it (and it's probably considered in excellent condition, considering we have had it for 4 months and I wash it 3x a month).
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Most of what I'd like to buy is available in the rest of the world with a turbo diesel and a variety of gasoline engines paired with manual transmissions. Not here though. Nope. One gas engine and some sort of automatic... -grumble grumble-
+1!
I bought a manual Jeep patriot in 2011, hopefully in 2025 someone still makes a manual 4 cyl suv.... I wish I could have the turbo diesel.
My husband bought a 4 door base model manual Jeep JK in 2007 new (paid cash, I think it was $25k). It currently has about 50k miles on it and he's said the only thing he would consider selling it and buying another car for is if Jeep made a 4 door manual Diesel version in the US. Otherwise, he'll likely have it forever.
I have a 2006 Honda Pilot I bought used in early 2014 with 38k miles on it for $17k (also paid cash). It was a great deal and it'll last us a long, long time. Especially since I drive about 500 miles per month.
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Both times we were looking at getting new (to us) cars we started looking used and then realized it was almost as cheap to just buy new, unless you want to go really used (5-6 years old with 80-100k miles on it).
This is what happened to me back in 2013.
The best part is that we got financing at .99% (Pentagon Federal Credit Union). I liked seeing that the entire amount of interest for the entire life of the loan was like $300.
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Both times we were looking at getting new (to us) cars we started looking used and then realized it was almost as cheap to just buy new, unless you want to go really used (5-6 years old with 80-100k miles on it).
This is what happened to me back in 2013.
The best part is that we got financing at .99% (Pentagon Federal Credit Union). I liked seeing that the entire amount of interest for the entire life of the loan was like $300.
that's the only reason we financed. I was able to buy my truck ($15k) and my wife's Audi ($15k) both used and financed with like $600 total interest between the 2 over 10 years. made more sense to do that than tie up money in a depreciating asset.
we got almost 100k worth of car, considering the new prices of what we got. I would take a used sports sedan with heated steering wheel over a stock kia any day, but these were both bought before MMM
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
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We went and looked at new trucks a few months ago.
When I realized a new full sized truck was going to start at about $30k, I decided that my 14+ year old Silverado was good for another few years.
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I was browsing the cars yesterday(hobby don't judge :)). I noticed that the new 2016 Nissan Titan Truck, full load was $75000 before tax. With prices this high, I guess $500 a month makes sense.
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I was browsing the cars yesterday(hobby don't judge :)). I noticed that the new 2016 Nissan Titan Truck, full load was $75000 before tax. With prices this high, I guess $500 a month makes sense.
And that's why prices become high, because credit enables people to buy more car than they otherwise would be able to afford. It's crazy. I've had friends that tell about how great their salesmen was at finding the car they could afford based on payments (um, that's their job, it's part of getting the sale).
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.
I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.
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Both times we were looking at getting new (to us) cars we started looking used and then realized it was almost as cheap to just buy new, unless you want to go really used (5-6 years old with 80-100k miles on it). You just have to wait for the right times to buy new and buy the year before model. We just had a baby and needed a small SUV to visit family (we take our 2 dogs with us). The wife settled on a GMC Terrain, we started looking used, but wanted no more than 3-4 years and no more than 60k miles. We were able to get a new 2015 with everything the wife wanted for 10% more than the same Terrain used with 35-40k miles on it, we just waited until the end of the year when they wanted the 2015s off the lot. The KBB trade-in on our Terrain in "very good" condition Is actually about $5k more than we paid for it. If you look at very good private sale it's worth over $8k what we paid for it (and it's probably considered in excellent condition, considering we have had it for 4 months and I wash it 3x a month).
5-6 years old with 80-100k seems almost new to me! :P
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.
I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.
Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too. So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).
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What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:
1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual
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What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:
1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual
I sold my '04 Forester XT to a buddy a few years back...he sold it last year with (I think) about 145k miles on it, still running strong. It didn't have electronic suspension on it, though my GX470 does and that's an '07 with ~108k and it's perfectly happy.
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What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:
1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual
You might be interested in this site. One example, the Audi A6 (which matches most of your criteria, I think), averages 129k miles before being traded in.
http://longtermqualityindex.com/
More anecdotal, my Subaru Legacy GT (which matches everything but European make and suspension), has broken 200k miles now.
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My first car was a Toyota Camry. By the time I started my post college career it had 250k+ miles and lots of cosmetic problems. Some of my new coworkers gave me crap about "you can afford a new car" now. I just smiled and told them "I don't want a "new car payment". After a couple of years I saw a good deal on a used Tacoma in great shape. I showed up to work in it and one of the same coworkers asked me what my payment was. I said "10k." He said, "what?" I said, "I paid 10k for it." He just could't believe I paid cash for a car. Ten years later I'm still driving it and I've still never made a "car payment" or paid for full coverage insurance. Having a $500 a month payment would bother me a lot more than having an old car.
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.
I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.
Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too. So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).
From what I've read, the average age of cars in the US is 11.4. Multiplied by the average miles driven per year (13.476k), that computes to an average mileage on the road of 153.6k. Despite the seemingly ever-steady stream of newly financed vehicles on the roads, the vast majority of cars are actually much older, both in terms of years and miles.
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From what I've read, the average age of cars in the US is 11.4. Multiplied by the average miles driven per year (13.476k), that computes to an average mileage on the road of 153.6k. Despite the seemingly ever-steady stream of newly financed vehicles on the roads, the vast majority of cars are actually much older, both in terms of years and miles.
Average age of driven cars or registered cars?
I suspect that many older vehicles are registered for very cheap but driven very little. It would not surprise me to see a significant difference in the median/average age of cars that are on the road at any given time and cars that are registered.
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Bought a new car this week after 14 years with the old one. They offered a 1.5% rate, couldn't say no to that! I held onto my check and will put that money in investments instead. Colleagues were trying to convince me to get a luxury car with essentially the same features as the one I did, same crash rating, and same capacity. Total extra cost would have been $44k. Yeah, I'm driving one of the cheaper cars in the neighborhood, but those suckers will be stuck in traffic in winter in Chicago while I'm on permanent vacation in 10-15 years.
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Bought a new car this week after 14 years with the old one. They offered a 1.5% rate, couldn't say no to that! I held onto my check and will put that money in investments instead. Colleagues were trying to convince me to get a luxury car with essentially the same features as the one I did, same crash rating, and same capacity. Total extra cost would have been $44k. Yeah, I'm driving one of the cheaper cars in the neighborhood, but those suckers will be stuck in traffic in winter in Chicago while I'm on permanent vacation in 10-15 years.
Having car in Chicago (unless you are doing reverse commuting) is more of a liability than anything else. Between walking, bus, biking, subway, Metra, I don't see the point of having a car at this point. Wouldn't you rather be on permanent vacation in 5-10 years? :)
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
I am surprise that your colleagues, presumably other residents, are buying luxury 40K+ cars when they are not making the full doctor salaries.... or do they just want to ride in your luxury car :)
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That's just nuts. I've had people give me a hard time about my car -- an old accord with now over 200,000 miles on it. In the end, however, I've come out so far in money I've saved not paying depreciation costs and not having to carry collision. I paid less than $4,000 for it over 10 years ago and could still probably get a grand for it if I wanted to rid myself of it. There is no way I could ever stomach $500/month car payments.
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Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.
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My lease was $700/mo, but fortunately it ends this month. Finally free!
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Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.
Some people enjoy the act of driving.
I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.
Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.
If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.
I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.
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Ok, to better phrase my opinion - luxury cars
boggle my mind appear to me an unnecessary expense with rapidly diminishing benefit to cost ratios above a certain level beyond those seen in a standard base-level car.
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Oh yah, without a doubt.
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
Welcome to a New Jersey onramp:
(http://i.imgur.com/YX0ZMwS.jpg)
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always. As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.
My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops. The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.
I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.
Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too. So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).
So if I keep this car to 121,000 miles or more i come out ahead? Sounds good to me! Plus I have cheaper insurance and the opportunity cost of $10,000 over 10 years ($6-10k depending on assumptions.)
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always. As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.
My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops. The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).
Does that mean you merge at 60mph, or ~10mph below the normal speed of traffic? That still seems wildly unsafe to me.
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Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.
Some people enjoy the act of driving.
I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.
Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.
If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.
I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.
Aren't almost all of these, except leather seats and performance, standard in pretty much every car made in the last 5-10 years? I like most of those things too, but you can get these in any car for no more than $20-30k brand spanking new, obviously less used. That's why I find $60k+ luxury cars rather silly. I read the features or see ads and most of it is so dumb. They're trying soooo hard to justify their price. Favorite might be "valet mode" from chevy:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Aug/0818-corvette.html
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Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap. There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.
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Chicago traffic is the worst. Who's brilliant idea was it to merge two interstate into one, right next to one of the largest cities in the US? I'd gladly take the El if it didn't take one hour to go 10 miles.
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That's why you shouldn't drive in Chicago. There are public transportation options.
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I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.
That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always. As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.
My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops. The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).
Does that mean you merge at 60mph, or ~10mph below the normal speed of traffic? That still seems wildly unsafe to me.
No, I mean that I have to keep my Metro screaming in 4th gear until 60 in order to get up to speed (your implied 65~70mph unless clogged with traffic) on the on-ramp in time. In less urgent situations I would shift from 4th to 5th around 35-40mph at a less terrifying RPM.Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.
Some people enjoy the act of driving.
I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.
Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.
If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.
I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.
Aren't almost all of these, except leather seats and performance, standard in pretty much every car made in the last 5-10 years? I like most of those things too, but you can get these in any car for no more than $20-30k brand spanking new, obviously less used. That's why I find $60k+ luxury cars rather silly. I read the features or see ads and most of it is so dumb. They're trying soooo hard to justify their price. Favorite might be "valet mode" from chevy:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Aug/0818-corvette.html
I have all of those luxuries in my 24-year-old car, actually. Our 1992 Buick Roadmaster Wagon does in fact have comfortable seats, good audio (aftermarket), power windows, AC, heat, leather seats, cupholders, cruise control, and some get-up-and-go. I wouldn't exactly call it a luxury car by any stretch (although it was close to it back in its day), but you certainly don't need to spend a lot of money to get all those bells and whistles if you do want them. My 1999 Metro has only one of those luxuries you listed though: Heat. It could use some less shitty audio (I suppose the acoustics of a small car are extra tricky) and maybe cruise control, but apart from those the absence of other features doesn't bother me.
The one thing I have appreciated about luxury cars is interior noise (or lack of). I drove a 1996 Volvo for a while that was very very quiet inside, and rode in a relative's 2010ish Lexus sedan (the one that's a fancier Camry) and it seemed dead silent inside. That was nice.That's why you shouldn't drive in Chicago. There are public transportation options.
The city, certainly. Unfortunately, the suburbs are *very* car-centric. I could take a bus to work for $1.75 each way (cheaper than the all-in cost of driving 14 miles each way even in my cheapskatemobile), but that way has me walking out the house at 6:45am instead of 8:00am to get to work at 8:30. I've done it a handful of times (when letting someone borrow my car for the day, etc.) but would not want to do that on a regular basis.
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Yes, most of those things should come standard in any modern car... but the #1 thing I listed, comfortable seats, are honestly pretty rare.
My 16-year-old car has everything I listed. Well, the audio is a bit less good than it was, it obviously has no removable roof (sunroof though!), and the performance is acceptable but not amazing (~200whp). But all of those are luxuries compared to some really stripped down cars you can get, which is why I listed them as luxuries.
Note I didn't include shit like bluetooth connectivity, adaptive cruise control, fantastic interior, etc. Nah. Comfortable seats. Comfortable seats are really key.
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Yes, most of those things should come standard in any modern car... but the #1 thing I listed, comfortable seats, are honestly pretty rare.
My dad bought one new car in his life about 10 years ago and he opted to save a couple thousand on options by getting the base model. The only thing he regretted was the uncomfortable seats. Eventually he took the driver's seat out and replaced it with one he like from and older vehicle. It looks completely mismatched, but he's comfortable.
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Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap. There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.
The other difference is that craft beer doesn't cost thousands of more dollars than Bud light. I'm all for spending on what you value, but the reality is that craft beer is a much more affordable luxury than a nice car.
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Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap. There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.
The other difference is that craft beer doesn't cost thousands of more dollars than Bud light. I'm all for spending on what you value, but the reality is that craft beer is a much more affordable luxury than a nice car.
That depends on how much you drink and what cars you buy.
I owned a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V for over two years - I paid $12,000 for it and I sold it for $13,000.
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My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.
Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?
Same thing for us in 1999 when we bought our CUV (cute ute). ;)
Used (35K-45K miles) and new were almost priced the same. My mother bought a domestic SUV of some sort recently and they reported the same as well.
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I was browsing the cars yesterday(hobby don't judge :)). I noticed that the new 2016 Nissan Titan Truck, full load was $75000 before tax. With prices this high, I guess $500 a month makes sense.
Our local dealers (I paid attention to Honda, Nissan and Ford) are piling up new cars. They have each spread to parking lots next door to contain the massive inventories they are holding. Each have had massive overflows for months now.
I don't know if that is a commentary on the economy - that its is recovering but incomes have truly flat-lined
- or whether it is a commentary on people's debt load or debt avoidance...
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I wonder what percentage of personal cars & trucks on the road today are actually paid for?
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FWIW, the estimated annual cost of owning a car is $9,000. Source if you want to argue with assumptions: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/
Just read a terrific book about why the last 50 years of American life have been car-centric but it didn't have to be that way and it could still be changed in the future. Some really interesting stats in here. I think the one that stuck with me was that transit riders burn 20 percent more calories per trip that drivers.
Street Smart: The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars by Samuel I. Schwartz (http://www.amazon.com/Street-Smart-Rise-Cities-Fall/dp/1610395646)
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FWIW, the estimated annual cost of owning a car is $9,000. Source if you want to argue with assumptions: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/
Just read a terrific book about why the last 50 years of American life have been car-centric but it didn't have to be that way and it could still be changed in the future. Some really interesting stats in here. I think the one that stuck with me was that transit riders burn 20 percent more calories per trip that drivers.
Street Smart: The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars by Samuel I. Schwartz (http://www.amazon.com/Street-Smart-Rise-Cities-Fall/dp/1610395646)
I've got to get this. I just realized that electric rail and subway technology is over 100 years old, and that cities such as New York were heavily committed to public transit even during the horse and buggy era. But many large metropolitan areas (1M+ people) in the United states lack even a basic light rail public transportation backbone. It appears to be related to exactly when those cities started growing. If the cities weren't well established with an industrial base prior to World War I, it appears to me that the focus was on car based development as opposed to anything else. I don't know if it was more of a technology thing, a lobby thing, or a reflection of the "I got mine so forget you" mentality that came out of the robber baron era.
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I can beat that average by quite a margin. But let me point out that I don't live in the US and our tax system is way different (cars are taxed at about 180%), so cars are expensive here.
But my DW and I bought a new car last year for a few reasons:
1. The tax-exemption for EV's would end (0% tax until end of 2015).
2. We are eco-hippies on a slow path to FIRE
3. Our side-gig which makes a boatload of money requires us to drive about 2-300 km pr "working night" and makes way more than the car payment.
4. We could afford and really wanted an EV.
So you can guess what is coming, we put 50% down in cash on a Tesla Model S right before the tax exemption ended. It costs us about $1000 pr month with payment, insurance and so on. But it is the 1 luxury item that we own. In time we will put solar panels on our 700 sqft home to power the house and a bit of the cars electricity.
We hope that the Tesla being all aluminium will hold up well in our climate and that we can basically keep this car for life. When we FIRE the free superchargers will be a nice perk for travelling Europe. We are setting money aside for a new battery in 8-10 years.
So we probably deserve a facepunch, but we make money driving it and we bought it knowing full well the consequences for our FIRE-situation.
That being said driving an EV is the ultimate in luxury, whether it's the "cheap" Leaf or the insane Tesla. The experience is just light years ahead.
PS. We did not go for a top-of-the-line model..
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I consult so my client location changes every 6-18 months. Sometimes its close, sometimes its pretty far... (30mi 1 way is about the max I will accept, and only if the bill/rate is a few $ higher to compensate)
So I seem to go through cars more than your average reader here. 20-25k mi/y and with billing 2200-2500 hours yearly I don't have a lot of time for maintenance. I have been having good luck with 3-4 year old cars in the 60-90k mile range driving them for 2-3 years up to around 140k and selling them for usually around a 2-3k loss.
If I were to buy a new car it would last (if I am being generous here...) 3 times as long and I would lose much more than the 6-9k that I would with the used car setup. Especially after you figure taxes....
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My friend surprised me with the news that he leased a brand new car for his wife with $300+ payment/month for 3 years. Surprisingly, she doesn't drive much and he expects that the car will be driven <10k miles in 3years. He is spending more than $1/mile on the car itself?!?