Author Topic: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month  (Read 22826 times)

JLee

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2016, 09:07:15 AM »
Both times we were looking at getting new (to us) cars we started looking used and then realized it was almost as cheap to just buy new, unless you want to go really used (5-6 years old with 80-100k miles on it). You just have to wait for the right times to buy new and buy the year before model. We just had a baby and needed a small SUV to visit family (we take our 2 dogs with us).  The wife settled on a GMC Terrain, we started looking used,  but wanted no more than 3-4 years and no more than 60k miles. We were able to get a new 2015 with everything the wife wanted for 10% more than the same Terrain used with 35-40k miles on it, we just waited until the end of the year when they wanted the 2015s off the lot. The KBB trade-in on our Terrain in "very good" condition Is actually about $5k more than we paid for it. If you look at very good private sale it's worth over $8k what we paid for it (and it's probably considered in excellent condition, considering we have had it for 4 months and I wash it 3x a month).

5-6 years old with 80-100k seems almost new to me! :P

Chris22

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2016, 09:15:18 AM »
My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.

Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?

Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.

I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.

Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too.  So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).

chesebert

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2016, 11:47:18 AM »
What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:

1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo 
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual

JLee

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2016, 12:48:04 PM »
What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:

1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo 
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual

I sold my '04 Forester XT to a buddy a few years back...he sold it last year with (I think) about 145k miles on it, still running strong.  It didn't have electronic suspension on it, though my GX470 does and that's an '07 with ~108k and it's perfectly happy.

RWD

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2016, 12:51:11 PM »
What is the typical lifespan of a modern car with the following characteristics, assuming you keep it well maintained:

1. 4 cyl or 6 cyl turbo 
2. 2.0 or greater displacement
3. European make
4. Electronic/sports suspension
5. drive by wire
6. AWD
7. manual transmission or automatic manual

You might be interested in this site. One example, the Audi A6 (which matches most of your criteria, I think), averages 129k miles before being traded in.
http://longtermqualityindex.com/

More anecdotal, my Subaru Legacy GT (which matches everything but European make and suspension), has broken 200k miles now.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2016, 04:28:38 PM »
My first car was a Toyota Camry. By the time I started my post college career it had 250k+ miles and lots of cosmetic problems. Some of my new coworkers gave me crap about "you can afford a new car" now. I just smiled and told them "I don't want a "new car payment". After a couple of years I saw a good deal on a used Tacoma in great shape. I showed up to work in it and one of the same coworkers asked me what my payment was. I said "10k." He said, "what?" I said, "I paid 10k for it." He just could't believe I paid cash for a car. Ten years later I'm still driving it and I've still never made a "car payment" or paid for full coverage insurance. Having a $500 a month payment would bother me a lot more than having an old car.

tobitonic

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2016, 06:55:51 PM »
My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.

Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?

Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.

I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.

Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too.  So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).

From what I've read, the average age of cars in the US is 11.4. Multiplied by the average miles driven per year (13.476k), that computes to an average mileage on the road of 153.6k. Despite the seemingly ever-steady stream of newly financed vehicles on the roads, the vast majority of cars are actually much older, both in terms of years and miles.

ender

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2016, 06:37:33 AM »
From what I've read, the average age of cars in the US is 11.4. Multiplied by the average miles driven per year (13.476k), that computes to an average mileage on the road of 153.6k. Despite the seemingly ever-steady stream of newly financed vehicles on the roads, the vast majority of cars are actually much older, both in terms of years and miles.

Average age of driven cars or registered cars?

I suspect that many older vehicles are registered for very cheap but driven very little. It would not surprise me to see a significant difference in the median/average age of cars that are on the road at any given time and cars that are registered.

Abe

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2016, 03:11:21 PM »
Bought a new car this week after 14 years with the old one. They offered a 1.5% rate, couldn't say no to that! I held onto my check and will put that money in investments instead. Colleagues were trying to convince me to get a luxury car with essentially the same features as the one I did, same crash rating, and same capacity. Total extra cost would have been $44k. Yeah, I'm driving one of the cheaper cars in the neighborhood, but those suckers will be stuck in traffic in winter in Chicago while I'm on permanent vacation in 10-15 years.

chesebert

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2016, 03:33:48 PM »
Bought a new car this week after 14 years with the old one. They offered a 1.5% rate, couldn't say no to that! I held onto my check and will put that money in investments instead. Colleagues were trying to convince me to get a luxury car with essentially the same features as the one I did, same crash rating, and same capacity. Total extra cost would have been $44k. Yeah, I'm driving one of the cheaper cars in the neighborhood, but those suckers will be stuck in traffic in winter in Chicago while I'm on permanent vacation in 10-15 years.
Having car in Chicago (unless you are doing reverse commuting) is more of a liability than anything else. Between walking, bus, biking, subway, Metra, I don't see the point of having a car at this point. Wouldn't you rather be on permanent vacation in 5-10 years? :)

Abe

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2016, 03:53:36 PM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

chesebert

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2016, 03:59:06 PM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...
I am surprise that your colleagues, presumably other residents, are buying luxury 40K+ cars when they are not making the full doctor salaries.... or do they just want to ride in your luxury car :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:01:01 PM by chesebert »

dots45

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2016, 04:29:28 PM »
That's just nuts.  I've had people give me a hard time about my car -- an old accord with now over 200,000 miles on it.  In the end, however, I've come out so far in money I've saved not paying depreciation costs and not having to carry collision.  I paid less than $4,000 for it over 10 years ago and could still probably get a grand for it if I wanted to rid myself of it.  There is no way I could ever stomach $500/month car payments. 

Abe

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2016, 05:32:12 PM »
Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.

workathomedad

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2016, 05:49:32 PM »
My lease was $700/mo, but fortunately it ends this month. Finally free!

gimp

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2016, 06:11:56 PM »
Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.

Some people enjoy the act of driving.

I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.

Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.

If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.

I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.

Abe

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2016, 06:52:19 PM »
Ok, to better phrase my opinion - luxury cars boggle my mind appear to me an unnecessary expense with rapidly diminishing benefit to cost ratios above a certain level beyond those seen in a standard base-level car.

gimp

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2016, 07:28:48 PM »
Oh yah, without a doubt.

HairyUpperLip

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2016, 06:40:55 AM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.



Chris22

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2016, 08:14:52 AM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.

That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.

JLee

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2016, 08:36:46 AM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.

Welcome to a New Jersey onramp:

ketchup

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2016, 08:50:45 AM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.

That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always.  As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.

My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops.  The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).

Scandium

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2016, 10:25:41 AM »
My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.

Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?

Strange. I think I paid $17-20k for my outback with ~35k miles. New it's $30k? Mine was a higher trim level. Our prius 3 was $16k after taxes, with 40k miles. New they are $25k I think. So a 30% discount. Well worth it to me.

I usually see about that number, 30%+ cheaper, by going 2-3 years/40k miles old. Have no idea where you people are who barely see a discount vs new.

Given that most people do not keep a car past 120k miles, that's also a 30% reduction in lifespan too.  So you're basically paying full price for the portion of the lifespan you got (for most people, I understand that most here keep the car a lot longer).

So if I keep this car to 121,000 miles or more i come out ahead? Sounds good to me! Plus I have cheaper insurance and the opportunity cost of $10,000 over 10 years ($6-10k depending on assumptions.)

Chris22

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2016, 10:28:00 AM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.

That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always.  As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.

My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops.  The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).

Does that mean you merge at 60mph, or ~10mph below the normal speed of traffic?  That still seems wildly unsafe to me. 

Scandium

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2016, 10:35:27 AM »
Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.

Some people enjoy the act of driving.

I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.

Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.

If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.

I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.

Aren't almost all of these, except leather seats and performance, standard in pretty much every car made in the last 5-10 years? I like most of those things too, but you can get these in any car for no more than $20-30k brand spanking new, obviously less used. That's why I find $60k+ luxury cars rather silly. I read the features or see ads and most of it is so dumb. They're trying soooo hard to justify their price. Favorite might be "valet mode" from chevy:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Aug/0818-corvette.html

Chris22

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2016, 10:53:27 AM »
Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap.  There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.


Abe

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2016, 11:35:58 AM »
Chicago traffic is the worst. Who's brilliant idea was it to merge two interstate into one, right next to one of the largest cities in the US? I'd gladly take the El if it didn't take one hour to go 10 miles.

chesebert

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2016, 11:59:17 AM »
That's why you shouldn't drive in Chicago. There are public transportation options.

ketchup

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2016, 02:07:33 PM »
I'm a surgery resident and rotate at two hospitals on opposite sides of the city. Commute time would be 1 hour each way to the main one (thanks green line that stops for no reason on the tracks!) On top of that, sometimes have to drive in for emergency cases, otherwise wouldn't have a car at all. The stress of driving here alone probably has taken 2 years off my life.
Next step of my training will hopefully take me to NYC or Houston, where I'd live next to the hospital! Bam! Maybe those 2 years will come back...

Driving in Chicago, fuck man... I hate those stupid entrances to the interstate from the left hand side. People rarely acknowledge the yield signs and I've had several close calls with idiots choosing to ignore it.

That's why I insist on a powerful car and laugh at the idea of a dinky 120hp Fit or the like. No thanks.
Merging onto I-55 this morning in my '99 Metro was an interesting affair, as always.  As long as I literally floor it, and stay in fourth gear until I'm at least up around 60mph, it's not so bad.

My Metro came from the factory with 55hp... and by now it's probably down to 45hp tops.  The only car I've ever driven where 100% flooring it is a regular affair (and not just on highway on-ramps...).

Does that mean you merge at 60mph, or ~10mph below the normal speed of traffic?  That still seems wildly unsafe to me.
No, I mean that I have to keep my Metro screaming in 4th gear until 60 in order to get up to speed (your implied 65~70mph unless clogged with traffic) on the on-ramp in time.  In less urgent situations I would shift from 4th to 5th around 35-40mph at a less terrifying RPM.
Same here...it's just a box that takes you places faster than walking. Luxury cars just boggle my mind.

Some people enjoy the act of driving.

I don't need much in the way of interior luxury.
- Seats: I need comfortable seats (need: because I can spend eighteen hours driving, and the next six hour sleeping in the seat.)
- Audio: I would very much like music I can hear over the roar of the wind with the windows down (so: functional window motors, so I can lower the passenger side window; and hell, a removable roof is a thing I dream about.)
- Windows: see above
- AC: I find myself driving in 110+ F weather; even at highway speeds with the windows open, the front part of my body feels fine but my back sweats like a pig. I've never had cooled seats, but I imagine they're nice.
- Heat: When it's -20 outside, passive heat soak from the engine through the firewall isn't enough. I've had heated seats, but they're only nice for like five minutes.
- Leather seats: just feel way nicer to me than cloth; are much easier to clean; don't smell musty / absorb smells. Downside is that they get hotter and colder than cloth.
- Cup holders: when you live out of a car for a week driving the country, you want a cup holder.

Functional luxuries:
- Cruise control... hard to drive for a long distance without one, though obviously possible. The issue isn't that my foot gets tired, it's that my right foot turns to lead and I would get arrested without cruise control.
- Driver engagement: some people enjoy driving.
- Performance: some people enjoy driving.

If a car is just a box to get from A to B, you need zero luxury. If a car is something you enjoy, just like any other thing you're passionate about, you start looking for ways to improve.

I'm not saying you need luxury in a car, I'm saying that if a luxury car boggles the mind, you're being hyperbolic or you're an autist. Luxury is pretty understandable no matter how much you say you don't want or need it. If you disagree, just think of luxury as a sliding scale: unless you're fine with living in a cave and hunting-gathering to survive with only tools you can build yourself, you're used to some level of luxury.

Aren't almost all of these, except leather seats and performance, standard in pretty much every car made in the last 5-10 years? I like most of those things too, but you can get these in any car for no more than $20-30k brand spanking new, obviously less used. That's why I find $60k+ luxury cars rather silly. I read the features or see ads and most of it is so dumb. They're trying soooo hard to justify their price. Favorite might be "valet mode" from chevy:
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Aug/0818-corvette.html

I have all of those luxuries in my 24-year-old car, actually.  Our 1992 Buick Roadmaster Wagon does in fact have comfortable seats, good audio (aftermarket), power windows, AC, heat, leather seats, cupholders, cruise control, and some get-up-and-go.  I wouldn't exactly call it a luxury car by any stretch (although it was close to it back in its day), but you certainly don't need to spend a lot of money to get all those bells and whistles if you do want them.  My 1999 Metro has only one of those luxuries you listed though: Heat.  It could use some less shitty audio (I suppose the acoustics of a small car are extra tricky) and maybe cruise control, but apart from those the absence of other features doesn't bother me.

The one thing I have appreciated about luxury cars is interior noise (or lack of).  I drove a 1996 Volvo for a while that was very very quiet inside, and rode in a relative's 2010ish Lexus sedan (the one that's a fancier Camry) and it seemed dead silent inside.  That was nice.
That's why you shouldn't drive in Chicago. There are public transportation options.
The city, certainly.  Unfortunately, the suburbs are *very* car-centric.  I could take a bus to work for $1.75 each way (cheaper than the all-in cost of driving 14 miles each way even in my cheapskatemobile), but that way has me walking out the house at 6:45am instead of 8:00am to get to work at 8:30.  I've done it a handful of times (when letting someone borrow my car for the day, etc.) but would not want to do that on a regular basis.

gimp

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2016, 02:42:15 AM »
Yes, most of those things should come standard in any modern car... but the #1 thing I listed, comfortable seats, are honestly pretty rare.

My 16-year-old car has everything I listed. Well, the audio is a bit less good than it was, it obviously has no removable roof (sunroof though!), and the performance is acceptable but not amazing (~200whp). But all of those are luxuries compared to some really stripped down cars you can get, which is why I listed them as luxuries.

Note I didn't include shit like bluetooth connectivity, adaptive cruise control, fantastic interior, etc. Nah. Comfortable seats. Comfortable seats are really key.

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2016, 02:14:28 PM »
Yes, most of those things should come standard in any modern car... but the #1 thing I listed, comfortable seats, are honestly pretty rare.

My dad bought one new car in his life about 10 years ago and he opted to save a couple thousand on options by getting the base model. The only thing he regretted was the uncomfortable seats. Eventually he took the driver's seat out and replaced it with one he like from and older vehicle. It looks completely mismatched, but he's comfortable.

randymarsh

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2016, 03:55:38 PM »
Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap.  There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.

The other difference is that craft beer doesn't cost thousands of more dollars than Bud light. I'm all for spending on what you value, but the reality is that craft beer is a much more affordable luxury than a nice car.

JLee

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2016, 04:03:08 PM »
Explaining nice cars to people with no interest in cars is like explaining craft beer to people who like Bud and good coffee to people who like whatever swill they can get cheap.  There is a difference, but if you don't care, I agree, you shouldn't pay more for it.

The other difference is that craft beer doesn't cost thousands of more dollars than Bud light. I'm all for spending on what you value, but the reality is that craft beer is a much more affordable luxury than a nice car.

That depends on how much you drink and what cars you buy.

I owned a 2004 Cadillac CTS-V for over two years - I paid $12,000 for it and I sold it for $13,000.

Making Cookies

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2016, 07:33:14 AM »
My wife likes the Subaru outbacks and we get a discount on Subaru's.
When looking at them, we could only save about $3-4,000 buying one with 30-40,000 miles vs buying a new one.
We went ahead and bought a new one but paid cash, no loan.

Those Outbacks really seem to hold their resale value?

Same thing for us in 1999 when we bought our CUV (cute ute). ;)

Used (35K-45K miles) and new were almost priced the same. My mother bought a domestic SUV of some sort recently and they reported the same as well.

Making Cookies

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2016, 07:38:19 AM »
I was browsing the cars yesterday(hobby don't judge :)).  I noticed that the new 2016 Nissan Titan Truck, full load was $75000 before tax.  With prices this high, I guess $500 a month makes sense.

Our local dealers (I paid attention to Honda, Nissan and Ford) are piling up new cars. They have each spread to parking lots next door to contain the massive inventories they are holding. Each have had massive overflows for months now.

I don't know if that is a commentary on the economy - that its is recovering but incomes have truly flat-lined

- or whether it is a commentary on people's debt load or debt avoidance...

Fishindude

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2016, 09:26:27 AM »
I wonder what percentage of personal cars & trucks on the road today are actually paid for?

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2016, 09:34:15 AM »
FWIW, the estimated annual cost of owning a car is $9,000. Source if you want to argue with assumptions: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/

Just read a terrific book about why the last 50 years of American life have been car-centric but it didn't have to be that way and it could still be changed in the future. Some really interesting stats in here. I think the one that stuck with me was that transit riders burn 20 percent more calories per trip that drivers.

Street Smart: The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars by Samuel I. Schwartz

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2016, 09:38:34 AM »
FWIW, the estimated annual cost of owning a car is $9,000. Source if you want to argue with assumptions: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/16/aaa-car-ownership-costs/2070397/

Just read a terrific book about why the last 50 years of American life have been car-centric but it didn't have to be that way and it could still be changed in the future. Some really interesting stats in here. I think the one that stuck with me was that transit riders burn 20 percent more calories per trip that drivers.

Street Smart: The Rise of Cities and the Fall of Cars by Samuel I. Schwartz

I've got to get this. I just realized that electric rail and subway technology is over 100 years old, and that cities such as New York were heavily committed to public transit even during the horse and buggy era. But many large metropolitan areas (1M+ people) in the United states lack even a basic light rail public transportation backbone. It appears to be related to exactly when those cities started growing. If the cities weren't well established with an industrial base prior to World War I, it appears to me that the focus was on car based development as opposed to anything else. I don't know if it was more of a technology thing, a lobby thing, or a reflection of the "I got mine so forget you" mentality that came out of the robber baron era.

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #88 on: April 08, 2016, 03:48:22 AM »
I can beat that average by quite a margin. But let me point out that I don't live in the US and our tax system is way different (cars are taxed at about 180%), so cars are expensive here.

But my DW and I bought a new car last year for a few reasons:

1. The tax-exemption for EV's would end (0% tax until end of 2015).
2. We are eco-hippies on a slow path to FIRE
3. Our side-gig which makes a boatload of money requires us to drive about 2-300 km pr "working night" and makes way more than the car payment.
4. We could afford and really wanted an EV.

So you can guess what is coming, we put 50% down in cash on a Tesla Model S right before the tax exemption ended. It costs us about $1000 pr month with payment, insurance and so on. But it is the 1 luxury item that we own. In time we will put solar panels on our 700 sqft home to power the house and a bit of the cars electricity.

We hope that the Tesla being all aluminium will hold up well in our climate and that we can basically keep this car for life. When we FIRE the free superchargers will be a nice perk for travelling Europe. We are setting money aside for a new battery in 8-10 years.

So we probably deserve a facepunch, but we make money driving it and we bought it knowing full well the consequences for our FIRE-situation.

That being said driving an EV is the ultimate in luxury, whether it's the "cheap" Leaf or the insane Tesla. The experience is just light years ahead.

PS. We did not go for a top-of-the-line model..

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #89 on: April 08, 2016, 09:26:44 AM »
I consult so my client location changes every 6-18 months. Sometimes its close, sometimes its pretty far... (30mi 1 way is about the max I will accept, and only if the bill/rate is a few $ higher to compensate)

So I seem to go through cars more than your average reader here. 20-25k mi/y and with billing 2200-2500 hours yearly I don't have a lot of time for maintenance. I have been having good luck with 3-4 year old cars in the 60-90k mile range driving them for 2-3 years up to around 140k and selling them for usually around a 2-3k loss.

If I were to buy a new car it would last (if I am being generous here...) 3 times as long and I would lose much more than the 6-9k that I would with the used car setup. Especially after you figure taxes....

mbk

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Re: Average US new car payment nearly $500/month
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2016, 10:58:04 AM »
My friend surprised me with the news that he leased a brand new car for his wife with $300+ payment/month for 3 years. Surprisingly, she doesn't drive much and he expects that the car will be driven <10k miles in 3years. He is spending more than $1/mile on the car itself?!?