Author Topic: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht  (Read 9609 times)

russianswinga

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Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« on: October 07, 2014, 04:05:23 PM »
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/10/05/average-bugatti-owner-84-cars-3-jets-1-yacht-report/

I'm not entirely surprised. I'm a car guy (which almost goes against being a mustachian, but everyone has to have their weakness, right?). I went to the Pebble Beach Concours D'Elegance ($150/ticket and $15 martinis at the bar) in 2009 to admire classic pre-war cars, and they had a Bugatti Tree on display. Imagine a christmas tree with 6 veyrons parked around it. At close to $2 mil each, that's... $11 million more than I need to achieve FIRE. And they were all sold.

There's absolutely no point I'm trying to make here.  I used to own a Lotus Elise before I found the mustachian way... but I guess there are levels of "rich" where the money you spend really, truly, does not matter. Whatever you buy, you'll never be able to spend money as fast as it comes in. Do I envy those people? Partly. I try to always have what's "best" for me and my family - usually this means quality goods at reasonable prices that I can service myself. I guess if your goal was to have the "best"... in the world... and money really, truly was no object... well, then a Bugatti may be the ticket.

What I don't understand is that this vehicle exists despite Volkswagen losing $ 6.25 million on every car they DO sell!
http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-loses-a-staggering-6-25-million-on-each-bug-1426504241

Veyron tree:

I got to sit in one:


Personally, I prefer more "timeless" classics, pun very much intended.


And as for the jets and the yachts... just follow the 3 F's rule. "If it Floats, Flies, or F***s, it's cheaper to rent!"

ncornilsen

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2014, 04:57:10 PM »
No comment on most of the thread, but I believe that 6.25Mil loss includes development and tooling costs. they probably make money on the marginal cost of producting one, so it makes sense to make them still... as it reduces that 6.25million figure as they amortize it over more and more cars sold.


Sid Hoffman

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2014, 05:16:07 PM »
I'm a car guy (which almost goes against being a mustachian

I'm not sure.  To many, the thing called mustacheanism means being frugal, living on about $25k/year and retiring once you have $600-800k in savings, based on USA pricing.  That should cover about 80, if not 90% of income earners.  However there's another aspect of it, more in the FI part of FIRE.  If you have Financial Independence, that could mean that buying 84 cars, 3 jets, and a yacht is no big deal because you still have a billion dollars working in the market for you and you're spending under 4% a year.

I remember watching a yacht special on TV once and they said that ownership wasn't as bad as you'd think if you do it right: the owner only used it about a month a year and the other 11 months it was rented out, roughly covering the costs for all 12 months.  Artwork can be similar: you may spend a million bucks on a painting, but then you loan it to a museum, so the museum is the one that has to carry the insurance policy and pay for security, all the while having your name next to the painting to show what a nice guy you are.  10 years down the road you may sell it for $2 million.  Specialty cars can be similar.  A lot of people went bonkers over the McLaren F1 when it was one of the first million dollar cars in the mid 1990s, but now some of the well cared-for examples are selling for ten times that amount at auction.

I don't begrudge people for being successful at business and wanting to have nice things.  I do wish that wage disparity was less than it is today, but this is such a global economy nowadays that you can't just say "Well raise taxes on the rich" and have it mean anything to the super-rich.  France already proved this when they raised taxes to 75% and not only were there a lot of people to publicly relocate to other countries, but I saw one article that indicated a lot of people privately relocated to neighboring nations with more favorable taxation.  Even London, famous for its high taxes now has lower taxes than Paris.

I do wish to see a move away from purely consumption based spending however.  I'd much rather see a rich person spending money on real estate (something that has limited environmental impact, as long as you aren't engaging in deforestation) versus a yacht burning 10 million kilograms of fuel a year.  Even better would be spending the money on college scholarships and free clinics, but I guess not everyone can be Bill & Melinda Gates.  ;)

gimp

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2014, 06:52:16 PM »
Supercars produced by large car companies are always sold at a loss due to R&D expenses.

R&D expenses are then recouped by integrating the technology into lower-class cars - supercar, then luxury car, then normal car, then econobox.

The R&D has to be done anyways, so you may as well capitalize on it by really pushing the limits, and recouping some of it by selling incredibly high margin halo products - halo products which then advertise the rest of your brand.

My '00 buick is much faster, much more reliable, much more efficient, and much more comfortable than ferraris which won grand prix races in the past. It takes time for good stuff to come down in cost until it gets integrated into normal cars, and the easiest way to do that is to put the good stuff to very extreme tests to see if it's produceable, reproduceable, and reliable.

TreeTired

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2014, 07:12:35 PM »
hmmmm.....    That number does surprise me (84 cars for the average Bugatti owner)  and it appears those numbers are not the result of a survey but just an off-the-cuff remark by the CEO to contrast Bugatti owners (extremely wealthy car aficionados, or collectors) to Bentley owners. 

But if it is true,  note that 
Quote
it's taken Bugatti over eight years to sell 450 Veyrons
  so with so few Bugatti owners out there a numerical average of cars owned per owner could be skewed by a few owning a whole bunch of cars.  ..hmmm  I was hoping Jay Leno owned about 300 cars to skew the average, but apparently he "only" owns 130.   

retired?

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2014, 10:10:53 PM »
So? 

Just responding to the title.  Good for getting some brain dead girls, perhaps.  Otherwise, who cares.

marty998

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2014, 12:47:45 AM »
So? 

Just responding to the title.  Good for getting some brain dead girls, perhaps.  Otherwise, who cares.

Isn't that the whole point?

SnackDog

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2014, 04:00:34 AM »
Luxury ain't what it used to be.  Everybody has bling these days, particularly in the US and Asia.  Sales of luxury cars have absolutely skyrocketed - it seems every other driver is in a BMW or Mercedes.  Even sales of Porsche, Bentley and Rolls-Royce are skyrocketing (Porsche sales up by a factor of 10 since 1993; Lambo up 10X since 2001).  Ferrari recently announced plans to double sales.  So, it's nice to see a few old-fashioned super-cars sold in tiny numbers at astronomical prices.  For people who could afford a $40MM yacht or airplane, it's nice to see them opting for the frugal choice of just a car.

LalsConstant

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2014, 06:42:08 AM »
So? 

Just responding to the title.  Good for getting some brain dead girls, perhaps.  Otherwise, who cares.

Isn't that the whole point?

Somewhere amidst the digital floatsam,  there's a video where some guys rented a Ferrari from one of those specialty car rental shops, set up a hidden camera, and videotaped their male driver stopping next to the sidewalk and asking random women to come with him.

The fact the success rate is above zero is incredibly depressing and will make you hate humanity.  The fact they got some of these women to leave friends family and companions behind is even worse.

Now don't get me wrong,  in another culture I'd not criticize this so harshly because in those cultures you have more assurances about the traits of someone driving a personal motor vehicle,  but in the contemporary developed world this is inexcusable.

I'd even wager you could choose a more appropriate form of incentive and gender invert this and get similar results.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 06:45:42 AM by LalsConstant »

gimp

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2014, 12:52:03 PM »
Quote
Sales of luxury cars have absolutely skyrocketed - it seems every other driver is in a BMW or Mercedes.

As MMM said, it used to be that luxury implied a certain level of badass - you needed cash to afford something, which you most likely earned. Now you don't.

With that said, to build on the previous topic of supercars rarely being profitable. High-end doesn't pay the bills. The R&D required to sell a high-end car costs so much that the high-end car can't be sold in enough quantities or at a high enough price to pay both production costs and R&D costs - for most supercars. This is true for most things - cars, computer components, you name it.

What drives the revenue, and profit, for almost all of these products, is the low end. High end has excellent margins, and high end acts as advertisement for the low end, and the low end gets bought. This is why the three-teir product line is so popular: you have phone x1, x2, x3; x3 is too expensive, but x2 is just a bit more expensive than x1 with a major plus side, so most people buy the x2. But plenty buy the x1, fewer than those who buy the x3.

So Porsche, for example, was not doing so hot - until they released the boxster at something like $40k. That's a high-end car for many people, but it's a low-end for Porsche, and it may well have saved the company. Pay attention to the luxury cars on the road: BMW 3-series, Mercedes 2- and 3-series, Porsche Boxster, Audi 4 (or now 3), and so on. Luxury cars that ain't. At least a 3-series beamer is a nice car; a 2-series mercedes is a piece of shit.

So, we have credit, and we have cheap versions of luxury cars that are more accessible.

Ferrari had Maserati for example, basically as its low-end version. Lambos have $200k-ish models. Rolls has Bentley. Actually, this has all gotten much fuzzier than it used to be because Volkswagen owns seemingly most of the supercar and high-end luxury car lines (a bit of an exaggeration but not that much).



Very few girls care about fancy cars, as it turns out. I mean, $200k, they might notice - but there's hardly a lady out there who cares about classic muscle or whatever. And you might be surprised how many girls you have to talk to leaning on your ferrari before one cares.

You know what a girl wants from a guy's car? For it to be clean.

Now, you're not gonna attract a girl off the street with your Civic, but once she wants to get to know you better - your clean civic won't scare her off; your corvette filled with McBeetus wrappers just might.

Jack

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 01:17:05 PM »
One year I was in the Smoky Mountains with my car club and two Veyrons and an Enzo blasted past us going in the other direction. That was way more impressive then seeing them parked at some highfalutin' concours (although getting to sit in one would have been pretty cool).

I'll admit to wanting a 3-Series BMW, but that's only because I'm thinking about both doing autocross and having kids, so a Miata may not cut it (I might need more than two seats).

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2014, 01:32:33 PM »
just follow the 3 F's rule. "If it Floats, Flies, or F***s, it's cheaper to rent!"

This is gross and sexist.


So? 

Just responding to the title.  Good for getting some brain dead girls, perhaps.  Otherwise, who cares.

Isn't that the whole point?
[/quote]

This is pedophiliac and necrophiliac.

So? 

Just responding to the title.  Good for getting some brain dead girls, perhaps.  Otherwise, who cares.

Isn't that the whole point?

Somewhere amidst the digital floatsam,  there's a video where some guys rented a Ferrari from one of those specialty car rental shops, set up a hidden camera, and videotaped their male driver stopping next to the sidewalk and asking random women to come with him.

The fact the success rate is above zero is incredibly depressing and will make you hate humanity.  The fact they got some of these women to leave friends family and companions behind is even worse.

Now don't get me wrong,  in another culture I'd not criticize this so harshly because in those cultures you have more assurances about the traits of someone driving a personal motor vehicle,  but in the contemporary developed world this is inexcusable.

I'd even wager you could choose a more appropriate form of incentive and gender invert this and get similar results.

Nice shot at the gender reversal at the end, but your post is overall saying that women are inexcusably stupid and overly impressed with money.  You say it will make you hate humanity, but what I think you are saying is it will make you hate "women" - they are the idiots getting the car right? I would say the context of our culture might encourage you to mute your criticism, rather than emphasize it, given the brainwashy consumerism, and ubiquitous misogyny we are all marinating in from infancy.

GuitarStv

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2014, 01:46:12 PM »
just follow the 3 F's rule. "If it Floats, Flies, or F***s, it's cheaper to rent!"

This is gross and sexist.

Check your outrage.  He didn't say that it's cheaper to rent women, or even people.  Do you know how expensive it is to own a horse for the sole purpose of sex?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 01:48:34 PM by GuitarStv »

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2014, 02:14:21 PM »
just follow the 3 F's rule. "If it Floats, Flies, or F***s, it's cheaper to rent!"

This is gross and sexist.

Check your outrage.  He didn't say that it's cheaper to rent women, or even people.  Do you know how expensive it is to own a horse for the sole purpose of sex?

LOL!!! actually, I thought he was pretty right on. I should probably rent a sailboat instead of owning one (it was cheap but of course is a money pit), and I'm kind of a sugar mama right now so financially speaking I might very well be better off "renting" ;) not to get all meta here, but it's almost sexist to assume that was sexist, if ya know what I mean.

back on topic, I'm kind of fascinated by cars but know really nothing about them. I do agree with everyone's comments/observations about the "cheapening"/increasing ubiquity of "luxury" cars. Mercedes are a dime a dozen around here, and I'm sure 95% are financed, not sure what the point of that is.

Bob W

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2014, 03:04:18 PM »
A red Mazda Miata has approximately the same impact as the Bugatti on the general public.  You're only impressing a very, very small percentage of the population who wouldn't know if it was 40K or 2 mill. 

russianswinga

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2014, 05:06:54 PM »

I'll admit to wanting a 3-Series BMW, but that's only because I'm thinking about both doing autocross and having kids, so a Miata may not cut it (I might need more than two seats).

You kinda read my mind there. Here I am autocrossing my 3-series (it's a 12-yr old car and I service it myself, I guess it's mustachian)

And here is my old lotus at the autox, it was a lot of fun but then I found MMM. Bye bye went the toy car.

Jack

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2014, 06:15:27 PM »

I'll admit to wanting a 3-Series BMW, but that's only because I'm thinking about both doing autocross and having kids, so a Miata may not cut it (I might need more than two seats).

You kinda read my mind there. Here I am autocrossing my 3-series (it's a 12-yr old car and I service it myself, I guess it's mustachian)

Ah. good, I can ask you: which particular year/engine/trim level of 3-series (most likely excluding the M3, obviously) has the best combination of competitiveness (ideally in the stock class) and mustachianism? 5- or 6-speed manual? AWD? I assume I'd want a sedan (to better wrangle child safety seats) -- or even better, a wagon -- but is there some compelling reason other than looks to go for a coupe? I'm willing to consider anything E36 (i.e., 1991) or newer, and under $12k or so.

MrsPete

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 06:19:05 AM »
I don't even know what a Bugatti is, but it sounds like a brand of spaghetti sauce. 

What I'm wondering is, where does a person park 84 cars?  I own 45 acres, but still, I wouldn't want a bunch of cars filling up my space. 

russianswinga

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2014, 10:56:02 AM »
Ah. good, I can ask you: which particular year/engine/trim level of 3-series (most likely excluding the M3, obviously) has the best combination of competitiveness (ideally in the stock class) and mustachianism? 5- or 6-speed manual? AWD? I assume I'd want a sedan (to better wrangle child safety seats) -- or even better, a wagon -- but is there some compelling reason other than looks to go for a coupe? I'm willing to consider anything E36 (i.e., 1991) or newer, and under $12k or so.

I recommend an e46, much easier to live with and well under 12K.
Do NOT get all wheel drive, unless you drive in the snow. It actually kills it at the autoX - you want your front wheels fully disconnected. Servicing an XI BMW is very expensive. Example - new front suspension control arms (and they WILL need to get replaced every 100K miles) - standard coupe are $300/pair, XI are double that.

The best auto-x capable NON-M3 e46 is a 330ci ZHP. It's a 6-speed with a sport package on steroids (super shocks, control arms, sway bars, etc). It will likely run you $2-3 k more than a standard e46 coupe.
I don't THINK there were any ZHP sedans made, but I could be wrong - you can check. I believe ZHP years were 04-06, but it's still a rare package even for those years.
If you need people-carrying capability, you want a 330i sedan (02-06). 5-speed manual, sport pack + premium pack is the best combination, but also next-to-impossible to find - sedan owners like their suspensions plush so sport packs were rare as were sticks. Keep in mind, you CAN change the suspension fairly easily, so don't let old shocks put you off - just budget another $1K for a good aftermarket replacement.
Wagons I THINK were all XI, but if I'm wrong and if you can find a manual - you've literally found the golden ticket.
Stay away from 328's and 325s, stay away from 99-2001 model years. 2004 was a big facelift - 04+ cars have LED tail lights, new bumpers, and tend to cost a bit more.
You can easily upgrade the car (I bolted on a ZHP weighted shifter, m3 steering wheen, aftermarket xenon headlights, DICE ipod / aux integration into Harmon Kardon system, BMW alarm, etc). It's especially easy if you upgrade the car with better BMW parts, like those off of M3s - the steering wheel on the M3 is miles better than any other BMW wheel and bolts right on, airbag and all.

Also check that all recalls were addressed - there was a recent one about passenger side airbags on all 02-04 cars - if not, a dealer will do them for free.
And last but not least, have a local, independent BMW shop do a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) of your intended car. It will be the best $300 you'll spend.

Feel free to PM me any e46 questions you may have.

russianswinga

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2014, 11:18:55 AM »
Aaaand - hot off the presses:

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/10/09/bugatti-evaluating-three-veyron-successors/




Bugatti is nearing the very end of its Veyron production run with only around 15 of the supercars reportedly left to be sold of the 450-car total. With so few remaining, the supremely posh automaker is already deep into development discussions of a successor, but it doesn't seem that the company has a final design in mind quite yet.

According to two unnamed insiders speaking to Bloomberg, Bugatti is evaluating at least three concepts for the Veyron's successor. They claim that the new model will be lighter than the current one with an engine capable of producing about 1,500 horsepower. Also, at least one of these prototypes is using an electric motor for additional boost.

These latest leaks lend further substantiation to the circulating rumors about Bugatti's future. One earlier report claimed that the hypercar would use a modified version of the current 8.0-liter quad-turbo W16, possibly with direct injection, electrically powered turbos and an additional electric motor to boost the top speed to around 286 miles per hour. Also, two prototypes (pictured above) were spotted testing at the Nürburgring earlier this year, and one of them wore an odd contraption on its back. Other speculation indicated the new model would reportedly be called the Chiron, a reference to a famous Bugatti racing driver and the name for one of the company's concepts that previewed the Veyron's shape.


286 mph... psht. My 3 jets and 1 yacht go faster than that. Except the yacht. And I have no jets either.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 11:20:50 AM by russianswinga »

LalsConstant

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 02:45:53 PM »
Nice shot at the gender reversal at the end, but your post is overall saying that women are inexcusably stupid and overly impressed with money.  You say it will make you hate humanity, but what I think you are saying is it will make you hate "women" - they are the idiots getting the car right? I would say the context of our culture might encourage you to mute your criticism, rather than emphasize it, given the brainwashy consumerism, and ubiquitous misogyny we are all marinating in from infancy.

1.  They're idiots for pulling the stunt.  Picking random people up off the street is moronic.  What if one of them tried to kill the driver and steal the car? 

2.  Women being impressed by money would be rational behavior.   Getting in a random car anyone can rent is stupid.

3.  Poe's Law applies to the rest of your response.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2014, 04:02:51 PM »
1.  They're idiots for pulling the stunt.  Picking random people up off the street is moronic.  What if one of them tried to kill the driver and steal the car?

If the video is the one I think it is, I heard about it elsewhere and it was shown that the "girls" were paid actresses.  It was also in Beverly Hills, which is not even like real America, but still, the backstory was that even in BH they had to pay actresses to go along with it.  Here's a more real video:

Can you really pick up women with a Ferrari?  (spoiler alert: no)

LalsConstant

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2014, 05:47:12 AM »
1.  They're idiots for pulling the stunt.  Picking random people up off the street is moronic.  What if one of them tried to kill the driver and steal the car?

If the video is the one I think it is, I heard about it elsewhere and it was shown that the "girls" were paid actresses.  It was also in Beverly Hills, which is not even like real America, but still, the backstory was that even in BH they had to pay actresses to go along with it.  Here's a more real video:

Can you really pick up women with a Ferrari?  (spoiler alert: no)

Thank you! I will have to check that out later.  It makes me happy to know it could be a bogus stunt and people really aren't that reckless.  I hope it is the same one, it's an older viral video that made the rounds when I was still in school.

+1 internet points to you.

dragoncar

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2014, 04:54:56 PM »
1.  They're idiots for pulling the stunt.  Picking random people up off the street is moronic.  What if one of them tried to kill the driver and steal the car?

If the video is the one I think it is, I heard about it elsewhere and it was shown that the "girls" were paid actresses.  It was also in Beverly Hills, which is not even like real America, but still, the backstory was that even in BH they had to pay actresses to go along with it.  Here's a more real video:

Can you really pick up women with a Ferrari?  (spoiler alert: no)

Thank you! I will have to check that out later.  It makes me happy to know it could be a bogus stunt and people really aren't that reckless.  I hope it is the same one, it's an older viral video that made the rounds when I was still in school.

+1 internet points to you.

I found this one, which seemed pretty dumb.  I didn't get it, besides they were just being asses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvH7jEpMdA

sekritdino

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2014, 06:50:56 PM »
Some guy in the building across the street from the one I work in (big tech company campus) has a Bugotti Veyron. He bought out four parking spots side by side so he can parallel park the car in all the spots with no one touching.

A couple weeks ago I saw this and lol-ed pretty hard. I doubt there are more than one cream colored car like this in the Seattle area.

http://happyplace.someecards.com/cars/someone-spray-painted-a-penis-on-15-million-bugatti-veyron/

russianswinga

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Re: Average Bugatti owner has 84 cars, 3 jets, and 1 yacht
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2014, 01:19:45 AM »
That was on autoblog, they mentioned the owner was aware of and even condoned the stunt. Something tells me that's a story generated by his PR manager, not himself...