Author Topic: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"  (Read 14767 times)

bloomability

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Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« on: May 24, 2015, 04:33:21 PM »
http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/pricier-heavier-vehicles-are-safer-national-study-by-ub-concludes-20150517

1. I wonder if the study standardizes the number of each vehicle on the road to get to this conclusion.

2. Well, duh, a small thing ramming into a larger thing will result in the small thing getting wrecked. Sports teaches you that.

3. Having more monster vehicles on the road will not create safer roads.

4. I'm looking for a study or article or anything that alludes to backing into a parking space is safer. So anyone that works in big oil, can you help me out?

MDM

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 04:47:36 PM »
Yes, as many of the article comments note, it does make sense that the occupants of heavier vehicles will suffer less than occupants of light vehicles in collisions.

To point #4, google   backing into a parking space is safer   for many relevant articles.

forummm

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 04:51:38 PM »
Some bigger cars tip over more easily--which is one of the deadliest things a car can do.

gimp

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 06:07:30 PM »
Generally speaking, the safest cars are luxury imports (or, these days, luxury American as well.) They cost a lot of money. Whatever your feeling on how much one should spend on cars, it's hard to deny that a 500-series mercedes or a tesla is safer than your average $20k econobox.

If you're looking for the safest car for some amount of money, you can have pretty good luck buying older luxury cars, as long as the maintenance doesn't bankrupt you.

Sam E

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 06:47:57 PM »
The safest car is actually the one that doesn't get into a collision in the first place, which can be achieved by taking driving seriously for the very heavy responsibility it is, and so few people do these days.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 08:38:48 PM »
According to that logic, we should all drive fracking trucks.

Hey It's Me

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 10:11:08 PM »
According to that logic, we should all drive fracking trucks.

Please. I don't risk my life with anything that has fewer than 16 wheels.

LalsConstant

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2015, 09:00:12 AM »
As someone who just survived a crash in an econobox where an oversized vehicle plowed into me (100% their fault), while I don't recommend getting into crashes at all, I have to say I was quite adequately protected from the 4300 lb. curb weight projectile.

It tore the car all to hell, but that's what that car was designed to do, absorb all the force so I don't have to.  Well done, car.

forummm

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2015, 09:21:03 AM »
The newer little cars have airbags everywhere. It's like that scene from Demolition Man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnyhkBU1yaw

GuitarStv

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2015, 09:51:27 AM »
"Safer" is an interesting word to use in this conversation.  They're safer for the people driving them. 
According to that logic, we should all drive fracking trucks.

Please. I don't risk my life with anything that has fewer than 16 wheels.

Pfffft.  If your ride doesn't roll on treads, you obviously don't care about safety.

Fastfwd

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2015, 12:29:00 PM »
"Safer" is an interesting word to use in this conversation.  They're safer for the people driving them.

Exactly. You may want to argue that if all cars were huge trucks if would not be safer for everyone but they are not. So it IS safer for the heavy-er trucks/large sedans.

You may want to argue that once you were in a crash in a small car and it was fine. Lots of people survived without seatbelts. You should still wear them. It's about statistics, not one isolated case study.

I think the only good argument against large cars(other than price/environment) is that there's no reason to think you will get into a major crash if you pay attention. It could happen anyway but it's still a small chance.

GuitarStv

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2015, 12:59:19 PM »
If your car is more likely to kill someone else than a smaller vehicle, it's not safer.  If your car is more likely to go out of control due to an oversized engine, or top heaviness, it's not safer.

You can personally be 'safer' in a tank with minimal visibility . . . but you're a menace to every other person on the road.  That doesn't make your vehicle safer, it just makes you an asshole.

forummm

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2015, 01:20:46 PM »
People tend to think about their own welfare, and don't generally give a darn about the welfare of others.

FrugalToque

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2015, 02:12:22 PM »
The strongest indicator of your chance of getting in a fatal car accident is "distance driven".

So if your SUV ownership correlates with "comfort for a long commute", you'll end up accepting a larger commute and you'll come out way behind.

Toque.

gimp

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 02:28:53 PM »
I wonder if there's been a study to see whether accidents correlate more with the distance driven or the time driven. I would suspect it is the latter. Does anyone know?

(I'm imagining empty highways @ 75mph versus packed streets with stop-and-go traffic @ 15mph average. Then again, at 15 mph, you're unlikely to get into a fatal car-on-car accident, eh?)

Indexer

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2015, 06:13:10 PM »
Well the safest street legal vehicle you can buy is clearly a marauder.

Oops..... multiple car accident...


Oops.... Lions....


Oops... I seem to have parked on a few pounds of C4.... which detonated....   (BTW the passenger compartment is fine & it keeps driving after this.. even with the flat tires.)


The Marauder also wins the heavy and price game.  10 tons and $475,000.  I guess it could also double as a small house ;).



On a more serious note I question this study.  They are tracking the frequency of personal injury in the 17 states with no fault laws.   People in smaller cars being more likely to be injured doesn't show how badly they are injured.  Many small cars are designed so they collapse in a way that prevents serious injury.  The major crash test studies normally look for serious injuries.  If the airbag breaks your nose... well that is good, better that than the dash break your skull.  Can we see mortality for large vs small vehicles?  That seems like it would be 100 times more useful information!

I'm a red panda

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2015, 07:07:51 PM »
The safest car is actually the one that doesn't get into a collision in the first place, which can be achieved by taking driving seriously for the very heavy responsibility it is, and so few people do these days.

Being in a car accident is often not the fault of the injured person.  There is nothing I can do to get others to take driving more seriously.

What could I have done to be safer the day that I was stopped at a red light, got hit, and had a bone in my neck broken?  (I'm not convinced a larger car would have helped me, as the car was barely damaged at all.... but still- I was taking driving very seriously. As evidenced by the fact that I didn't hit the car in front of me because I had stopped a safe distance away. But I still suffered for almost a year because of this accident, and will have some lifelong ramifications. And got nearly NOTHING in compensation for it.)


Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »
Well the safest street legal vehicle you can buy is clearly a marauder.

I won't lie.  I'd love one of those if I had enough money that it wouldn't matter.  I just wouldn't ever actually take it on "roads."

A used Unimog is probably more my style, though...

I've got a nice heavy truck, but given the tendency of it's engine to intrude into the passenger compartment in collisions, I'd rather not test out it's safety.  And I ride an ebike as my daily driver.

randymarsh

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2015, 07:41:32 PM »
Didn't see any mention that certain types of drivers choose certain types of vehicles.

They mention the 2 door Civic and Scion tC as being the least safe. But those models I'm almost sure are mostly driven by younger, more inexperienced drivers.

Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2015, 07:46:48 PM »
What? Young, inexperienced drivers drive cheap cars that are usually light? *gasp*

jj20051

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2015, 07:48:44 PM »
I have two vehicles (yeah facepunch, working on it). One is a smaller car (ford fiesta) and the second is a larger SUV (dodge caliber). I'll be honest I feel much safer in the smaller car. It's more maneuverable, it comes to a stop easier and it takes off more slowly than my other vehicle.... honestly those three things have saved me from several accidents so I definitely believe MMM on the 'bigger' vs 'smaller' debate.

forummm

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 07:48:49 PM »
It drove over C4 that detonated, and only lost a tire? Whoa.

Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 07:59:27 PM »
It drove over C4 that detonated, and only lost a tire? Whoa.

Top Gear is hard on their vehicles.

Sam E

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 08:08:40 PM »
I have two vehicles (yeah facepunch, working on it). One is a smaller car (ford fiesta) and the second is a larger SUV (dodge caliber). I'll be honest I feel much safer in the smaller car. It's more maneuverable, it comes to a stop easier and it takes off more slowly than my other vehicle.... honestly those three things have saved me from several accidents so I definitely believe MMM on the 'bigger' vs 'smaller' debate.

I agree, I don't feel safer in bigger vehicles because they feel heavy, more lumbering/cumbersome, and less inclined to stop; therefore I feel more likely to get in an accident, and I don't consider that a safe feeling.

Reminds me of when I started biking to work in the winter (over snow and ice, with studded tires) and everyone asked how I could do something so dangerous. But the thing was, I felt safer on my bike than in my car. If I lost traction, it was easy to recover or just outright stop and restart. If a car were to slide toward me, I could bail out with ease (thankfully never necessary). I generally rode in bike lanes or otherwise off to the side, outside the line of car traffic in the first place. On the other hand, in my car I felt much more helpless if I slipped on ice or if a car behind me looked like it wasn't going to stop.

I feel that helpless feeling creep up on me the bigger and heavier a vehicle gets: If things go sideways I'll have less and less ways to actually AVOID the incident.

Travis

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 11:55:50 PM »
"Safer" is an interesting word to use in this conversation.  They're safer for the people driving them. 
According to that logic, we should all drive fracking trucks.

Please. I don't risk my life with anything that has fewer than 16 wheels.

Pfffft.  If your ride doesn't roll on treads, you obviously don't care about safety.

You have no idea.  In Baghdad we were driving one of our Bradleys down a city street and some fella decided stop signs weren't his cup of tea and T-Boned the vehicle.  His Toyota pickup pretty much crunched like a soda can against the hull.  If it wasn't for the vehicle commander having his head outside the turret when it happened I'm not sure the rest of the crew would have noticed.

GuitarStv

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2015, 06:38:20 AM »
What's the fuel economy on a Bradley like these days?  :P

forummm

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2015, 06:42:27 AM »
What's the fuel economy on a Bradley like these days?  :P

Yeah, how many GPM?

GetItRight

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2015, 10:01:42 AM »
You can personally be 'safer' in a tank with minimal visibility . . . but you're a menace to every other person on the road.  That doesn't make your vehicle safer, it just makes you an asshole.

Sounds like most vehicles made in the past decade and change. About 1000 lbs heavier than they need to be for their size and minimal visibility between the huge pillars, tall head restraints, and high doors. Visibility perhaps only marginally better than a tank, which makes it a lot more likely to be involved in an accident compared to a vehicle with greater visibility.

Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2015, 10:06:25 AM »
What's the fuel economy on a Bradley like these days?  :P

Yeah, how many GPM?

According to http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/inf/M2.html, between 250 and 300 miles on 175 gallons, so around 1.4-1.7mpg.

Travis

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2015, 11:09:40 AM »
What's the fuel economy on a Bradley like these days?  :P

Yeah, how many GPM?

According to http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/inf/M2.html, between 250 and 300 miles on 175 gallons, so around 1.4-1.7mpg.

Sounds about right.  The uparmored humvee gets 7mpg, and the M1 Abrams tank gets .5mpg.

GuitarStv

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2015, 12:08:28 PM »
Do they run on regular fuel, or some kind of fancy high test?

Travis

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2015, 12:11:09 PM »
Do they run on regular fuel, or some kind of fancy high test?

Diesel and a couple grades of aviation fuel.

Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2015, 01:05:39 PM »
Do they run on regular fuel, or some kind of fancy high test?

"Damned near anything that will burn."

BlueMR2

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2015, 06:33:45 PM »
You can personally be 'safer' in a tank with minimal visibility . . . but you're a menace to every other person on the road.  That doesn't make your vehicle safer, it just makes you an asshole.

Sounds like most vehicles made in the past decade and change. About 1000 lbs heavier than they need to be for their size and minimal visibility between the huge pillars, tall head restraints, and high doors. Visibility perhaps only marginally better than a tank, which makes it a lot more likely to be involved in an accident compared to a vehicle with greater visibility.

I hadn't realized how bad it has gotten until I was in a newer car recently.  You can't hardly see out the back at all with the monster headrests.  Those pillars are so ridiculously thick that even large SUVs disappear in the multiple blind spots they cause.  Now I understand why electronic driver aids are becoming mandatory.  You can't safely drive a modern car without them because the visibility is so horrible in the new cars!

Drew664

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2015, 08:08:57 PM »
You can personally be 'safer' in a tank with minimal visibility . . . but you're a menace to every other person on the road.  That doesn't make your vehicle safer, it just makes you an asshole.

Sounds like most vehicles made in the past decade and change. About 1000 lbs heavier than they need to be for their size and minimal visibility between the huge pillars, tall head restraints, and high doors. Visibility perhaps only marginally better than a tank, which makes it a lot more likely to be involved in an accident compared to a vehicle with greater visibility.

I hadn't realized how bad it has gotten until I was in a newer car recently.  You can't hardly see out the back at all with the monster headrests.  Those pillars are so ridiculously thick that even large SUVs disappear in the multiple blind spots they cause.  Now I understand why electronic driver aids are becoming mandatory.  You can't safely drive a modern car without them because the visibility is so horrible in the new cars!

New cars are mostly horrible for visibility based on recent experience.  Drove a Chrysler 300, very hard to see. Drove a new Malibu and that was hard to see out of compared to a model just 2 years younger.

But man, drove a new Odyssey and those things are awesome for visibility.

zephyr911

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2015, 09:32:09 AM »
http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/pricier-heavier-vehicles-are-safer-national-study-by-ub-concludes-20150517

1. I wonder if the study standardizes the number of each vehicle on the road to get to this conclusion.

2. Well, duh, a small thing ramming into a larger thing will result in the small thing getting wrecked. Sports teaches you that.

3. Having more monster vehicles on the road will not create safer roads.

4. I'm looking for a study or article or anything that alludes to backing into a parking space is safer. So anyone that works in big oil, can you help me out?
It's a classic fallacy of competition. Sadly, many people do chase heavier and pricier vehicles in their pursuit of safety, making the entire transportation sector more expensive and less efficient with no improvement in the average driver/passenger's safety.

JLee

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2015, 11:11:34 AM »
If your car is more likely to kill someone else than a smaller vehicle, it's not safer. If your car is more likely to go out of control due to an oversized engine, or top heaviness, it's not safer.

You can personally be 'safer' in a tank with minimal visibility . . . but you're a menace to every other person on the road.  That doesn't make your vehicle safer, it just makes you an asshole.

That's like saying MMM'ers are more likely to lose $500k in Vegas.

Having something available does not make it that thing's fault when the custodian is irresponsible. ;)

Indexer

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2015, 06:46:15 PM »
It drove over C4 that detonated, and only lost a tire? Whoa.

It is designed to survive IEDs.  So.... C4 is to the Marauder as a squirrel is to a Hummer.

Speaking of a Hummer.  They used the C4 on it as well.



It is NOT recommended that you drive a Hummer over C4.

MDM

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2015, 06:52:35 PM »
Can we see mortality for large vs small vehicles?  That seems like it would be 100 times more useful information!

See http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/passenger-vehicles.


SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2015, 03:08:25 PM »
Having been a tow truck driver and seen many accidents, including a few fatalities, the #1 rule is remain inside the vehicle. This means wear your seatbelt even if the vehicle is stopped or disabled. DO NOT EXIT THE VEHICLE.  It's like walking on the wing of a plane without a 'chute. Only takes 1 careless driver to hit you at even 25mph and you're having a very bad day.

Rule #1 out of the way, the rest is my preference:
I like german AWD sedans with side curtain airbags, ABS, traction control, stability control, and snow tires.  I would never go without the ABS, Airbags or snow tires. I like import/performance cars, so the brand and features may vary, but I think if you can afford it, the important systems are in this order:
1) ABS - most cars since the mid 90's should have this as standard.
2) Front airbags. Seriously, don't buy a car without them.
3) Side curtain airbags - becoming increasingly standard
4) snow tires - helps you stop, turn, go... in all conditions from nov-march
5) stability control - keeps you from wiping out in a spin on the highway or while turning
6) traction control - helps you get moving in slippery conditions
7) AWD - i like it because I HAVE to be at work each day and push thru 6-12" of packed slush in the alley, but you don't NEED it.

anyone who is MMM should be able to easily find a used reliable car that has all these features for well under $10k. I got my Audi for $6800 and added snow tires for another $600.  Non-gear heads should be able to find something that has these much cheaper. Pro-tip: get the manual. Often times it is cheaper to purchase, and it will be cheaper to drive in the long run. $400 for a new clutch vs $1500 for a rebuild on your automatic transmission.

MMM Small cars I like:
Toyota Matrix / Pontiac Vibe
Honda Fit
Honda Civic
Toyota Corolla
Chevy Volt
Nissan Versa
Nissan Sentra
Chevy Cruze Eco

Medium/Large
Toyota Camry (4cyl only)


Syonyk

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2015, 12:49:36 AM »
...and seen many accidents,

Totally off topic, but that's awesome given your handle here... :D

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2015, 08:18:17 AM »
...and seen many accidents,

Totally off topic, but that's awesome given your handle here... :D

I dunno what you lot are talking about... and who drank all my beer?

Reynold

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2015, 01:30:50 PM »
Pro-tip: get the manual. Often times it is cheaper to purchase, and it will be cheaper to drive in the long run. $400 for a new clutch vs $1500 for a rebuild on your automatic transmission.

I've seen this advice from MMM as well, and just to provide a counterpoint, the last couple of manual transmission cars we bought needed one and two clutch replacements respectively in the time we owned them, about 14 years each, for close to $600 each.  None of the automatic transmission cars we've bought have ever needed a transmission rebuild in the same amounts of time, roughly 160 thousand miles. 

While it may differ with other car models, when we did comparisons in mileage between Honda CRVs with manual and automatic transmissions, it was almost identical, maybe 0.5 mpg different.  I was kind of surprised about this, did some digging, and found that the gearing ratio is slightly different.  The automatic transmission car uses a lower gearing ratio, and the automatic transmissions have gotten sophisticated enough to "slip" slightly when you need more power so it can respond just as well as the manual, while being more efficient at cruising speed. 

Finally, the automatic gives more versatility in case you ever need to let a friend or relative drive it, since fewer and fewer people know how to drive a manual transmission these days.  So I wouldn't completely write off an automatic even for a Mustachian. 

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2015, 03:04:54 PM »
Pro-tip: get the manual. Often times it is cheaper to purchase, and it will be cheaper to drive in the long run. $400 for a new clutch vs $1500 for a rebuild on your automatic transmission.

I've seen this advice from MMM as well, and just to provide a counterpoint, the last couple of manual transmission cars we bought needed one and two clutch replacements respectively in the time we owned them, about 14 years each, for close to $600 each.  None of the automatic transmission cars we've bought have ever needed a transmission rebuild in the same amounts of time, roughly 160 thousand miles. 

While it may differ with other car models, when we did comparisons in mileage between Honda CRVs with manual and automatic transmissions, it was almost identical, maybe 0.5 mpg different.  I was kind of surprised about this, did some digging, and found that the gearing ratio is slightly different.  The automatic transmission car uses a lower gearing ratio, and the automatic transmissions have gotten sophisticated enough to "slip" slightly when you need more power so it can respond just as well as the manual, while being more efficient at cruising speed. 

Finally, the automatic gives more versatility in case you ever need to let a friend or relative drive it, since fewer and fewer people know how to drive a manual transmission these days.  So I wouldn't completely write off an automatic even for a Mustachian.

If you have to replace clutches more than automatic transmissions, then you're either 1)buying pre-abused cars with clutches that are already quite worn  or 2) you're not driving it right.

I sold a '98 BMW back in 2004 that had 170k on the original clutch. All of my vehicles (except a pickup I briefly owned) have been manual, and I have only ever had to replace the clutch due to extreme abuse. Sometimes my own.

I actually regard having a manual as a bonus. Nobody else can drive my car, and that's how I like it. It's built in anti-theft. Most crooks are too lazy and stupid to learn if they dont already know.

BlueMR2

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2015, 10:22:15 AM »
While it may differ with other car models, when we did comparisons in mileage between Honda CRVs with manual and automatic transmissions, it was almost identical, maybe 0.5 mpg different.  I was kind of surprised about this, did some digging, and found that the gearing ratio is slightly different.

Sometimes it's dramatically in the favor of the auto equipped car.  My MR2 is the manual, but they also offered an auto version.  The manual version has a very aggressive rear differential gearing for acceleration, whereas the auto version has something more "normal".  Auto is about 4 MPG better than the manual.  Of course, it's way less fun to drive...

Sam E

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2015, 10:35:11 AM »
While it may differ with other car models, when we did comparisons in mileage between Honda CRVs with manual and automatic transmissions, it was almost identical, maybe 0.5 mpg different.  I was kind of surprised about this, did some digging, and found that the gearing ratio is slightly different.

Sometimes it's dramatically in the favor of the auto equipped car.  My MR2 is the manual, but they also offered an auto version.  The manual version has a very aggressive rear differential gearing for acceleration, whereas the auto version has something more "normal".  Auto is about 4 MPG better than the manual.  Of course, it's way less fun to drive...

Automatic transmissions have come a long way and I think people don't give them enough credit. Yeah, they're still more expensive to get fixed and all that, but in terms of mileage they're equal with or better than manual transmissions now. My understanding is that modern manuals only really win out in mileage if you're specifically babying it to get the highest possible mileage, but at that point you're in hypermiling territory anyway. For the average normal driver, the difference between auto and manual is no longer a concern despite what a lot of manual purists like to perpetuate. These days, manual vs automatic really just comes down to preference.

Bob W

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2015, 10:14:02 AM »
Apparently one of the safest cars is the Tesla S.   It has the highest rating by those crash institute folks.  You can pick one up used for 60K.  Never need gas again.   

Older Camry's are relatively cheaper (6K) and pretty safe as well.    Let's see 60K or 6K?  Hmmmm?

MgoSam

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2015, 10:26:49 AM »
Apparently one of the safest cars is the Tesla S.   It has the highest rating by those crash institute folks.  You can pick one up used for 60K.  Never need gas again.   

Can't wait for them to bring sedans that under 30k. That still might be beyond what I want to spend, but I imagine a few years after that prices could go down for used versions.

Bob W

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Re: Article: "Pricier, heavier vehicles are safer"
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2015, 12:08:48 PM »
Apparently one of the safest cars is the Tesla S.   It has the highest rating by those crash institute folks.  You can pick one up used for 60K.  Never need gas again.   

Can't wait for them to bring sedans that under 30k. That still might be beyond what I want to spend, but I imagine a few years after that prices could go down for used versions.

Well that is their stated goal.   I'm doubting it though.  Even with Elon's magical battery factory,  I don't think they could get the price below 45.   Could be wrong.   Now if it is pushed that far you could see the completion step in with a sub 30 all electric that goes 300 miles.

On a related note --- I wish VW would take their 300 mpg car and mass produce for the US market.  At that rate it is less expensive and has less environmental (co2) impact than any electric.   You just don't want to be in a wreck in one!