Author Topic: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!  (Read 24478 times)

kyleaaa

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2013, 02:00:08 PM »
If you are a visual person, using a Mac is intuitive and easy.

I am a visual person and using a Mac has never been intuitive and easy for me. It was quite difficult for me to learn how to do some seemingly-simple things.

It also annoys me that every time there's an OSX upgrade at work, something screws up. I haven't had that much trouble with an OS upgrade since the Windows 98 days.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:55:09 PM by kyleaaa »

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2013, 02:06:50 PM »
Well - there's NOTHING more intuitive and easy than my  Chromebook. If you know how use the Chrome browser, you can use a Chromebook.

But I don't.  (And if the other Google-crap I sometimes have to use is any indication, I see no reason to learn.)

I see a major contradiction in your claim, though.  It's "intuitive", but only if you've previously learned their browser?  Would you run that by me one more time?

kyleaaa

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2013, 02:10:32 PM »
Well - there's NOTHING more intuitive and easy than my  Chromebook. If you know how use the Chrome browser, you can use a Chromebook.

But I don't.  (And if the other Google-crap I sometimes have to use is any indication, I see no reason to learn.)

I see a major contradiction in your claim, though.  It's "intuitive", but only if you've previously learned their browser?  Would you run that by me one more time?

I think he was being facetious. Chrome is a web browser. If you can use any web browser, you can use Chrome. By extension, if you can use, say, Safari, you can use a Chromebook.

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2013, 06:27:17 PM »
If you can use any web browser, you can use Chrome.

This does not follow.  I normally use Opera as my web browser.  Does that mean I can use Firefox (which I sometimes need to do) with the same degree of effectiveness?  Does it mean that I wouldn't be pretty well lost if I had to use say Internet Explorer, or any of those other browsers? 

stubby

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2013, 07:05:07 PM »
As someone who's used a shiny new Macbook Pro with Retina display for just under a year now, I absolutely love it.

I bought my wife a 13" MBP in 2011 and she enjoys it (does photography and video editing with it), I currently have 3 laptops for my personal use, a 2011 Lenovo T520 15", a 2012 Lenovo T430 14" and the 15" MBP Retina.

All 3 are work supplied machines, I got the T520 and like it quite a bit, but rarely use it anymore, got the fancy pants Retina MBP when I started a new position and the boss asked what I wanted to do my job with, I went for what was basically the best laptop available at the time and he said ok. Then my company outsourced us late last year and I got the T530.

I have used probably a half dozen Thinkpad's, starting with an IBM T43, then moving to a T60, the T61, then T510 before getting the T520 and T430 (again, all supplied by my employer, yes I am a spoiled fancy pants who gets new stuff too often from my job).

I use the MBP Retina pretty much exclusively, if I need Windows based stuff I RDP to my desktop at work and work through that.

With that said, if I moved away from my job would I dare drop 1500-2000 on the laptop I type this on? Absolutely not, it's an amazing machine, and just like if someone offered to let me drive a BMW every day I would enjoy it and miss it when it was gone, but not worth the face punch I should get if I were to buy one myself.

randymarsh

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2013, 07:16:49 AM »
The problem is that people end up comparing $299 Walmart specials to $1500 Macbook Pros. There is a noticeable difference at those price points. It's not correct to say that Apple computers last longer than Windows computers because there's no such thing as a Windows computer. 100 different manufacturers make "Windows" computers. One makes Apple computers.

On the hardware side, you can't deny that there's a fit and finish you get with Apple hardware that isn't really there with the $300 Toshiba. Of course, you're paying for that. The cheapest desktop is $600 and that doesn't include a monitor while the cheapest notebook is $1000.


gdborton

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2013, 07:45:36 AM »
If you can use any web browser, you can use Chrome.

This does not follow.  I normally use Opera as my web browser.  Does that mean I can use Firefox (which I sometimes need to do) with the same degree of effectiveness?  Does it mean that I wouldn't be pretty well lost if I had to use say Internet Explorer, or any of those other browsers?

Pretty much... 90-95% of the big browsers completely overlap in functionality.  Address bar doubles as search (google is normally the default, but even if it isn't other search engines are 90-95% the same), shortcut keys are the same (ctrl+D, alt+D, alt+enter, ctrl+H, ctrl+J, F12).

Any more the biggest difference between browsers are their dev tools (I prefer chrome, then probably opera, then FF, then IE), and their compatibility.  Outside of ie 8-, all browsers are closing in on each other - http://html5readiness.com/

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2013, 11:43:25 AM »
Pretty much... 90-95% of the big browsers completely overlap in functionality.  Address bar doubles as search (google is normally the default, but even if it isn't other search engines are 90-95% the same), shortcut keys are the same (ctrl+D, alt+D, alt+enter, ctrl+H, ctrl+J, F12).

Nope.  Or perhaps maybe - it might be possible to use an address bar for search.  I wouldn't know, because that's not what an address bar is for.  And to pick one obvious difference, "Back" in Opera is crtl-leftarrow, but in Firefox that does nothing.

cdub

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2013, 11:45:54 AM »
Well - there's NOTHING more intuitive and easy than my  Chromebook. If you know how use the Chrome browser, you can use a Chromebook.

But I don't.  (And if the other Google-crap I sometimes have to use is any indication, I see no reason to learn.)

I see a major contradiction in your claim, though.  It's "intuitive", but only if you've previously learned their browser?  Would you run that by me one more time?

What's not intuitive about the Chrome web browser? ... it's a web browser... if you can use a web browser - you can use a Chromebook.

gdborton

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2013, 12:19:30 PM »
Quote
Nope.  Or perhaps maybe - it might be possible to use an address bar for search.  I wouldn't know, because that's not what an address bar is for.  And to pick one obvious difference, "Back" in Opera is crtl-leftarrow, but in Firefox that does nothing.

The standard back button is alt+left arrow or the backspace key, without taking the time to look at all the keybindings Opera may be unique in supporting ctrl+left.

Also the address bar is for whatever functionality it supports.

kyleaaa

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2013, 12:55:59 PM »
This does not follow.  I normally use Opera as my web browser.  Does that mean I can use Firefox (which I sometimes need to do) with the same degree of effectiveness?  Does it mean that I wouldn't be pretty well lost if I had to use say Internet Explorer, or any of those other browsers?

Yes and yes. The fact that you may have to learn slightly different shortcuts for different browsers doesn't enter into it. If you can use Opera, you can surf the web effectively using any other web browser on the market. You don't need shortcuts to do that.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:58:37 PM by kyleaaa »

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2013, 01:27:16 PM »
The standard back button is alt+left arrow or the backspace key...

Whose "standard"?  Opera has been using that key combination since sometime in the '90s.  Likewise, the backspace key has a standard meaning (deleting the character left of the cursor) which has been around since the first TTY displays.

Quote
Also the address bar is for whatever functionality it supports.

Yes, and it's for showing the address, 'cause that's what it does.  Now some browsers may add other functions to it, but when the browser you're used to using has a better way, has had it for many years, and you're accustomed to using that better way, it is NOT EFFING "INTUITIVE" to do it differently. 

If you can use Opera, you can surf the web effectively using any other web browser on the market. You don't need shortcuts to do that.

Wrong.  Maybe you can, but I can't.

cdub

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2013, 01:43:42 PM »
Also the address bar is for whatever functionality it supports.

Yes, and it's for showing the address, 'cause that's what it does.  Now some browsers may add other functions to it, but when the browser you're used to using has a better way, has had it for many years, and you're accustomed to using that better way, it is NOT EFFING "INTUITIVE" to do it differently. 


Actually the "omni bar" address bar is pretty freaking awesome. If you're searching for something... just start typing in the omnibar address bar and the results instantly start showing up in the brower window. It works perfectly.

An address bar that just shows the address bar is pretty limited single use. Aren't we mustachians supposed to find efficiency in the system? ;) The omnibar does that.

Give it a whirl.

gdborton

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2013, 02:20:02 PM »
Quote
Whose "standard"?  Opera has been using that key combination since sometime in the '90s.  Likewise, the backspace key has a standard meaning (deleting the character left of the cursor) which has been around since the first TTY displays.

Everyones?  Those shortcuts work in every major browser, with exception of Safari on alt+left... IE, Chrome, FireFox, Opera

Quote
Yes, and it's for showing the address, 'cause that's what it does.  Now some browsers may add other functions to it, but when the browser you're used to using has a better way, has had it for many years, and you're accustomed to using that better way, it is NOT EFFING "INTUITIVE" to do it differently. 

Again, this is pretty standard now.  It works in every major browser including Opera - http://help.opera.com/Windows/9.50/en/search.html

Browser Market share - http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

gdborton

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2013, 02:31:06 PM »
Quote
Actually the "omni bar" address bar is pretty freaking awesome. If you're searching for something... just start typing in the omnibar address bar and the results instantly start showing up in the brower window. It works perfectly.

An address bar that just shows the address bar is pretty limited single use. Aren't we mustachians supposed to find efficiency in the system? ;) The omnibar does that.

Give it a whirl.

The term omni bar was used by google when chrome first launched, but it's really baked into every major browser now.  Unless you actively avoid typing in the address bar you're already using it.  It isn't really a selling point of Chrome anymore.  In fact the blurring of features of each of the browsers makes them so identical in almost every way that for the average user one isn't inherently better than the other.

For instance, I love Opera it is very pretty and the company behind it was way ahead of its time regarding web development standards.  The reason that I use Chrome instead is middle clicking your only tab closes it down, which is nit picky but it something I don't wish to live without.  That and sandboxed tabs make browsing a bit more stable.

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2013, 04:16:21 PM »
Actually the "omni bar" address bar is pretty freaking awesome. If you're searching for something... just start typing in the omnibar address bar and the results instantly start showing up in the brower window. It works perfectly.

Tastes differ.  I'd call it loathsome myself, worse that that stupid Google autocomplete that keeps stuff flickering on the screen.  I can't understand how anyone can stand to look at it.  Luckily Google still has a way to bypass it, but for some other sites, the only way I can stand to do a search is to close my eyes while typing.

Quote
An address bar that just shows the address bar is pretty limited single use. Aren't we mustachians supposed to find efficiency in the system? ;) The omnibar does that.

Nope, because 1) it's harder to use; and 2) interferes with the original function.

Unless you actively avoid typing in the address bar you're already using it.


Well, of course I actively avoid typing in the address bar.  It's an output field.


kyleaaa

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2013, 05:11:56 PM »
If you can use Opera, you can surf the web effectively using any other web browser on the market. You don't need shortcuts to do that.

Wrong.  Maybe you can, but I can't.

If true, you would literally be the only person on the entire planet for whom this is the case. And I do literally mean only. Can't help ya there.

cdub

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2013, 06:01:37 PM »
Getting this back on topic - the Chromebook is an awesome computer that is a perfect and cheap and maintenance free replacement for an aging Mac or Windows machine.

The only time I ever power up my old Mac is when I want to run YNAB - and that may soon change because based on their job postings there are hints that they are creating a Chrome packaged app* for it which will mean I don't need my Mac at all.

* a Chrome packaged app is a native app built on web technology that is self contained, runs outside of the browser, is offline by default, automatically syncs and saves the "cloud" when online, and can run on any device that runs Chrome - OSX, Windows, Linux, iOS, Android, and yes Chrome OS.

Jamesqf

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2013, 07:32:27 PM »
If true, you would literally be the only person on the entire planet for whom this is the case. And I do literally mean only. Can't help ya there.

Somehow, I doubt that you've have checked on whether the entire population of this planet can effectively work with any particular browser   (Note the key word there.  I can get stuff done, eventually, if I use a different browser.  It just takes longer and adds frustration to my life.)  I suspect you're guilty of believing Microsoft/Google/Apple advertising hype.  Just for an obvious instance, how about people with visual handicaps?

After all, that's why there are a bunch of different browsers, because there is no one true way.  People get frustrated with what they see as shortcomings in browser X, so they invent browser Y, then the people who don't like that come up with Z.  Otherwise we'd all still be using Mosaic :-)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 07:42:13 PM by Jamesqf »

kyleaaa

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2013, 07:58:06 PM »
Somehow, I doubt that you've have checked on whether the entire population of this planet can effectively work with any particular browser   (Note the key word there.  I can get stuff done, eventually, if I use a different browser.  It just takes longer and adds frustration to my life.)

You are using a different definition for the word "effectively" than everybody else. Can you point any browser to www.google.com without spending 15 minutes trying to figure out how to use the browser? Yes? Then you can use it effectively.

  I suspect you're guilty of believing Microsoft/Google/Apple advertising hype.  Just for an obvious instance, how about people with visual handicaps?

Nope. I have, though, done this usability stuff professionally. In point of fact, I used to write software that was legally required to be usable by those with visual handicaps. I can assure you, all the browsers mentioned in this thread work very well with the popular accessibility packages out there.

After all, that's why there are a bunch of different browsers, because there is no one true way.  People get frustrated with what they see as shortcomings in browser X, so they invent browser Y, then the people who don't like that come up with Z.  Otherwise we'd all still be using Mosaic :-)

Just because somebody prefers one browser or another doesn't mean they can't use a different browser. We all know you're just being difficult for the sake of being difficult and that you can use Chrome perfectly well.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:18:25 PM by kyleaaa »

MoneyCat

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Re: Apple computers do not last longer than "windows computers"!
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2013, 07:30:19 PM »
     I'm not at all an expert in computers, since I have no background in it and I only recently was capable of purchasing new equipment, but I see strengths to the various platforms.  I actually haven't had to purchase computer equipment with my own money since 2009, when I made the mistake of buying a Gateway NV laptop that completely fried less than two years later.  You really do get what you pay for.
     Since then I bought a Dell laptop with money that was given to me as a gift.  Yeah, I know Dell isn't the world's greatest computer, but I got a decent one on clearance and I also bought it through ShopDiscover, so I got an additional 10% cashback on it.  It's been working without any issues for me for over two years now.  I use it for my graduate courses that I'm taking for free and I connect it to my TV with an HDMI cable to watch TV since I don't subscribe to cable.
     I have an Android smartphone that I can tether to my laptop using a USB cable and use my unlimited 4G LTE service for wireless whenever I want.  I use PDANet, which was a one-time fee of $18 for lifetime use for tethering.  You can't do this with an iPhone without some serious kung fu.
     I also have a 4th generation iPad with retina display that I bought with more money that was given as a gift to me.  It's very useful for handling documents and stuff for my graduate courses, especially when you combine it with a bluetooth keyboard.  I'm using it right now to post this.  Apple products really do seem to be made pretty well.  I still use a 5th generation iPod classic that someone gave me for Christmas back in 2007 and it works like it's brand new.
     Like I said, I'm no expert, but I see value in PCs, Android devices, and Apple products.  They all work pretty well, although you can use some in conjunction with others better.  The real key is making sure you don't purchase something of cheap quality so you can get maximum value out of it.  It's just like how MMM warns people not to buy a Dodge Caliber when they are looking for a car.