Anyone else have a "If I have to do X, I may as well do Y" habit?

[gimp]

I've been noticing this about myself - I always want to "do it right." If I'm going to have to do at minimum X, I may as well do Y to do it right.

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z.

In short, a $100 requirement too often turns into a $400 upgrade after multiple steps of "may as well do it right." Which is always way better and well researched, but costs too damn much.

---

Here's an example. I have moderately low compression on two cylinders in the car I got. Not really a problem, but it needs to be addressed eventually. It's probably just two piston rings (like $10 each) but if so, that means the engine has to come out. Now, if the engine is coming out, I'm going to pay a bunch in labor - may as well spend a few bucks to get new pistons, since mine are a weak point of the design. And I mean, new rods too. And if I'm going to get forged rods and pistons, I should also get a forged crank. But while the engine is out, I may as well upgrade some other stuff. But it costs a lot, so maybe I should just get a new bigger engine instead. And now I've turned a $20 parts problem into a $xxxx engine swap.

Doing things right saves money in the long term, but at some point it's just too much.

[Chris22]

I'm renovating a house, this stuff abounds. 

For instance:
-Adding a bathroom in the basement, so paid a plumber to put in the lines
-While he's in there "hey, your water heater is over 10 years old, if you go buy one, I'll install it for free" +$550
-Then, well, I'm looking at tying into your existing water lines, they're all older iron, you really should switch to copper, I can do that but it's extra... +$600

So $1100 of scope creep, but in reality it was stuff that needed to be done, it just got done early and cheaper.

Also, doing some landscaping in the back.  Wife wants to rip out a large bed full of small rocks.  "Well, if you want to get rid of the rocks, I really need to rent a dumpster to get rid of them all.  And if I'm renting a dumpster, I should get rid of that patio on the side of the house you hate too and throw it all away at the same time..."  $240 for 2 full days of jackhammer rental and 16 hours of hard labor later...

[Jack]

Mine's worse. I want solar panels for the roof of my house, but I need to replace the roof first. But if I'm replacing the roof, I want to change the roofline to extend the flush eaves* (at minimum), or maybe enclose the existing front porch and add a new, larger one. Or maybe tear the whole thing off and make the house 1 1/2 stories (either finished space or as an attic with 8'+ ceilings that could be finished later), which I don't need but neighborhood comps would support. Of course, that would mean adding stairs, which means changing the layout of the first floor, which means an entire gut-rehab! That's turning a four-figure cost into a six-figure one, for you folks keeping score.

So, I've done nothing so far, I still want solar panels, and I probably need to deal with it soon because my (asphalt shingle) roof is now 15 years old.

(* If you don't know what I mean, look at this picture of a house similar to mine. Not only are flush eaves butt-ugly IMO, but they also fail at passive solar and force me to close my windows when it rains, even when there's no wind.)

[ducky19]

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z

Maybe you should start with doing Z - nowhere left to go after that.

[Papa Mustache]

I've been noticing this about myself - I always want to "do it right." If I'm going to have to do at minimum X, I may as well do Y to do it right.

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z.

In short, a $100 requirement too often turns into a $400 upgrade after multiple steps of "may as well do it right." Which is always way better and well researched, but costs too damn much.

---

Here's an example. I have moderately low compression on two cylinders in the car I got. Not really a problem, but it needs to be addressed eventually. It's probably just two piston rings (like $10 each) but if so, that means the engine has to come out. Now, if the engine is coming out, I'm going to pay a bunch in labor - may as well spend a few bucks to get new pistons, since mine are a weak point of the design. And I mean, new rods too. And if I'm going to get forged rods and pistons, I should also get a forged crank. But while the engine is out, I may as well upgrade some other stuff. But it costs a lot, so maybe I should just get a new bigger engine instead. And now I've turned a $20 parts problem into a $xxxx engine swap.

Doing things right saves money in the long term, but at some point it's just too much.

The forged parts don't really pay off unless you are running the engine at the red line anyhow. If it is going to be turning mere mortal speeds just drop in a rebuilt motor from the friendly local auto parts store and be done with it. A short block or long block depending on your needs.

Or - buy a junkyard engine and rebuild it at your leisure so you are only off the road a minimum of time. Sell the old block afterwards if you want the $$$.

I totally get your problem. My problems are automotive too. Years ago I started repairing some minor rust on a favorite antique vehicle of mine. Turned into a full ground up restoration (still undone). In the long run I'll be money ahead as the value of the vehicle is appreciating but it's a long way from fixing a couple of rusty spots. I'm happy. ;)

[boarder42]

my problem is with my diet and losing weight sometimes more so than money. 

well i already ate that small cookie this morning may as well eat a pizza buffet for lunch

[mm1970]

Mine's worse. I want solar panels for the roof of my house, but I need to replace the roof first. But if I'm replacing the roof, I want to change the roofline to extend the flush eaves* (at minimum), or maybe enclose the existing front porch and add a new, larger one. Or maybe tear the whole thing off and make the house 1 1/2 stories (either finished space or as an attic with 8'+ ceilings that could be finished later), which I don't need but neighborhood comps would support. Of course, that would mean adding stairs, which means changing the layout of the first floor, which means an entire gut-rehab! That's turning a four-figure cost into a six-figure one, for you folks keeping score.

So, I've done nothing so far, I still want solar panels, and I probably need to deal with it soon because my (asphalt shingle) roof is now 15 years old.

(* If you don't know what I mean, look at this picture of a house similar to mine. Not only are flush eaves butt-ugly IMO, but they also fail at passive solar and force me to close my windows when it rains, even when there's no wind.)

Ha, this is where inertia is a powerful force for us.

I want another bathroom, maybe another bedroom, maybe just enclose the front porch?
Husband wants solar panels.
Our roof needs replacing...

So we replaced the roof, and didn't do anything else and now...well there is no point doing the other stuff anymore.  Should have done it before replacing the roof.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z

Maybe you should start with doing Z - nowhere left to go after that.

My spreadsheet tells me "AA" comes after "Z"

But yeah, the "if I do X, I might as well do Y" mentality is in full force when I do home renovations. The end result is that I either take twice or three times as long to get a job done, or I end up doing nothing at all because of the effort and money involved in doing it right.

[Magilla]

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z

Maybe you should start with doing Z - nowhere left to go after that.

My spreadsheet tells me "AA" comes after "Z"

But yeah, the "if I do X, I might as well do Y" mentality is in full force when I do home renovations. The end result is that I either take twice or three times as long to get a job done, or I end up doing nothing at all because of the effort and money involved in doing it right.

Hah, I suffer from this a lot too :)

[letired]

Hahaha I call this the "might-as-well's". I'm doing this thing, I might as well do this other thing that makes the project 2x as big. As noted above, sometimes, it does make sense, but...

I'm having this problem right now. My house has a garage that the previous owners closed up into a 'bedroom'. I'm been a bit stuck for what to do with it, and I want to add a bathroom to the house on that side somehow, and then I devolve into a hole of WHILE I'M AT IT, HIRE THIS GUY FROM 4 HOURS AWAY TO BUILD ME A BASEMENT BECAUSE NO LOCAL PPL BUILD BASEMENTS WTF TEAR DOWN THE HOUSE AND START OVER. (no, not really)

In another potential project, I want to replace the current grass with a native mix that has a max height under the requirements for mowing, so I don't have to f-ing mow anymore, but before I do that, I should have someone come look at the water lines, which are nearing end of life so I don't rip up my new lawn later, and don't forget about the sewer line, and the project cost grows exponentially from there.

[JoJo]

This creeps in to travel too...  If I'm here, I might as well do _______________.   I've done amazing things, bucket-list like items, but have spent $1000s on these extras.

[Miss Piggy]

Does this count?

Our refrigerator isn't as cold as it needs to be.
Call repairman.
Repairman notices the compressor has been replaced before (5 years ago), and it will just go bad again.
Well, if we need a new fridge, we might as well do that kitchen remodel we've wanted to do since we bought the house 12 years ago, right?
And if we're doing the kitchen remodel, we should replace the flooring in the hallway that leads from the front door to the kitchen, since it's the same flooring.
And if we're replacing that hallway flooring, we might as well remodel the bathroom, too, since that's also the same flooring. I mean...that's just a toilet and vanity...and mirror...and light fixture...and hey, let's do tile walls in there while we have it gutted.

Most expensive and time-consuming refrigerator repair EVER.

[Paul der Krake]

Does this count?

Our refrigerator isn't as cold as it needs to be.
Call repairman.
Repairman notices the compressor has been replaced before (5 years ago), and it will just go bad again.
Well, if we need a new fridge, we might as well do that kitchen remodel we've wanted to do since we bought the house 12 years ago, right?
And if we're doing the kitchen remodel, we should replace the flooring in the hallway that leads from the front door to the kitchen, since it's the same flooring.
And if we're replacing that hallway flooring, we might as well remodel the bathroom, too, since that's also the same flooring. I mean...that's just a toilet and vanity...and mirror...and light fixture...and hey, let's do tile walls in there while we have it gutted.

Most expensive and time-consuming refrigerator repair EVER.

Meh, it would just be easier to get a whole new house, yours isn't going to get better.

[Miss Piggy]

Meh, it would just be easier to get a whole new house, yours isn't going to get better.

I could not agree more. We looked for a year before undertaking the remodel project. Couldn't find what we wanted (small house, big garage), and since our current house is paid for, we decided to stay.

[andy85]

This creeps in to travel too...  If I'm here, I might as well do _______________.   I've done amazing things, bucket-list like items, but have spent $1000s on these extras.

This...a good example would be going to see a concert
might as well pre-drink a little
might as well pre-drink something decent ($$)
might as well go out to eat before the concert
might as well buy some beer at the concert
might as well go to the bar after the concert

sister wanted to go to a 2 or 3 day concert/festival. tickets were only $120. I told her no b/c i had no doubt it would end up costing me 3-4x that amount after food, alcohol, hotel. just no.

i enjoy concerts, but the above inevitably happens.

[robartsd]

Mine's worse. I want solar panels for the roof of my house, but I need to replace the roof first. But if I'm replacing the roof, I want to change the roofline to extend the flush eaves* (at minimum), or maybe enclose the existing front porch and add a new, larger one. Or maybe tear the whole thing off and make the house 1 1/2 stories (either finished space or as an attic with 8'+ ceilings that could be finished later), which I don't need but neighborhood comps would support. Of course, that would mean adding stairs, which means changing the layout of the first floor, which means an entire gut-rehab! That's turning a four-figure cost into a six-figure one, for you folks keeping score.

So, I've done nothing so far, I still want solar panels, and I probably need to deal with it soon because my (asphalt shingle) roof is now 15 years old.

(* If you don't know what I mean, look at this picture of a house similar to mine. Not only are flush eaves butt-ugly IMO, but they also fail at passive solar and force me to close my windows when it rains, even when there's no wind.)

In your situation, I'd stop at unfinished attic with 8' ceilings to finish later. If you aren't finishing the attic space, no need for reworking the first floor - that's a new project that you planned ahead for by creating the space while redoing the roof framing.

In my case the problem is the electrical system. The house I just bought is missing the cover for the breaker box. The dryer outlet has no power (not sure why - there's also no vent for the dryer in the laundry room, but there is a window). We'd like more outlets (the dining room and hallway have none, each bedroom has only one, although the kitchen has 3 plus the stove outlet, only one is at the counter and it is on the side that's closer to the sink). We'd also like to add an exhaust fan for the bathroom, several ceiling fans, and a whole house fan. Most (perhaps all) of the outlets are not grounded (3 prong outlets illegally installed) and there is a chance that there is still some active knob and tube wiring somewhere. Might as well replace everything, right. Since were doing all this electrical, might as well upgrade exterior lighting. While were cutting holes in the wall, we might as well wire the whole house for data and blow in insulation. This is sounding light too big of a project, so we painted the rooms that needed it the most and moved in. We can probably live with it as is for quite a while (lack of clothes dryer is the biggest inconvenience currently).

[plainjane]

Our refrigerator isn't as cold as it needs to be.
[...]
Most expensive and time-consuming refrigerator repair EVER.

This is why we still have the oven that needs to be reminded every 15 minutes to check the temperature gauge (we do this by turning on one of the elements and then turning it off again).  I don't want to buy a new stove that is the wrong size for the eventual kitchen renovation, and I don't want to renovate until we are FI. 

I figure, it would suck to have one of us laid off, and for us to have a new kitchen and less money.  Also, we aren't positive we want to stay in the city, plus the time-value of money.  OTOH, resetting the oven "check temperature" brains is pretty annoying, and I cook a lot, and a stove doesn't have to be that expensive. I think about things too much.

[TheAnonOne]

We bought a house that needed some serious repairs.

We lived in it, for 4 years without doing those, mainly a flooring issue on the main level. That turned into flooring for... basically the whole house + a new kitchen.

I probably broke even on repairs in home value, but who knows, you need to sell to really find that out.

[sleepyguy]

As long as you don't overkill it I think it's actually a GOOD way of thinking of doing things.  Especially for car repairs.

I'm especially bad at this one it comes to home repair.  I remember my GF was out for a 2 day conference out of town and I took a couple days off to fix the house.

I was suppose to do a patch job here and there with some rough spots on our old hardwood floor... when she came back we had no floor or baseboards, LOL.

[MgoSam]

Yeah, I don't have a habit (AFAIK) but in my house I want to tear out the wall that blocks my kitchen from my living room (totally unnecessary), but I'm holding off because if I'm going to do that I mind as well tear out the living room carpeting and install laminate. Also might put in an island in the kitchen.

Overall these are things that I think I could do if I have help, but I don't want it done enough to plan it.

[ducky19]

This creeps in to travel too...  If I'm here, I might as well do _______________.   I've done amazing things, bucket-list like items, but have spent $1000s on these extras.

That's a good point. I was in southern India for business and spent the extra ~$300 to take a weekend trip to see the Taj Mahal. I justified it by looking at how much it would have cost me to go there on my own from home. It really only cost me the flight, I used points for the hotel rooms and one of the other guys that went covered the car. Was definitely well worth the money!

[Basenji]

Before I bought a house I never understood why people didn't do more work on their houses, but now I know.

Mine is: living/dining/kitchen area (one big space) needs new paint. Current color is fugly beige-yellow and the walls need some basic repairs/smoothing in places. But I'd also like to fix all the wonky unmatched baseboard and ceiling trim. Then there's that strange built-in shelving unit that hides a spot where they just didn't put any trim. Or I can just live with it. Which is what I've been doing for 8 years.

[gimp]

The forged parts don't really pay off unless you are running the engine at the red line anyhow. If it is going to be turning mere mortal speeds just drop in a rebuilt motor from the friendly local auto parts store and be done with it. A short block or long block depending on your needs.

Or - buy a junkyard engine and rebuild it at your leisure so you are only off the road a minimum of time. Sell the old block afterwards if you want the $$$.

I have a supercharged LS1 in a dedicated weekend-and-track car. It's not going to be turning mere mortal speeds :)

The choices are basically:
- Fix LS1
- Upgrade LS1 for boost (forged parts), swap back to higher boost (bought it with a nine pound pulley, just swapped down to six, but if it's forged I could do ten easily)
- _Also_ upgrade the entire valvetrain, been wanting to do that, and hey, better breathing heads too?
- Upgrade to a built LS3, swap the supercharger over to it
- Upgrade to a built LS-whatever that I can get smog legal... probably not a 6.0 iron block, and I doubt an LSX would be legal either, but some of those might be possible to hide so smog tech won't notice it's different

I totally get your problem. My problems are automotive too. Years ago I started repairing some minor rust on a favorite antique vehicle of mine. Turned into a full ground up restoration (still undone). In the long run I'll be money ahead as the value of the vehicle is appreciating but it's a long way from fixing a couple of rusty spots. I'm happy. ;)

Yeah, I'm constantly refreshing parts on my buick. Fun hobby, mildly expensive though.

[gimp]

My problem is that it tends to be a recursive idea. If I do Y, I may as well spend a few extra bucks to get a lot more benefit from doing Z

Maybe you should start with doing Z - nowhere left to go after that.

The problem is that it's usually too expensive to justify Z!

[Papa Mustache]

Yeah, I'm constantly refreshing parts on my buick. Fun hobby, mildly expensive though.

I get it.

Do I live with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARGkOxPKL-o

Or do I rip it all out and do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4f9XCpiNVw

All relative of course to your displacement and vehicle brand.

[elaine amj]

wow....that's a lot of extras that lead to Z. It's actually rare for us to get tempted. Our problem is the opposite. We start at X, really should do Y, but just cannot stomach spending more so stop at X. Annoys me sometimes that we have so many half-finished jobs around the house. No, we are not model homeowners.

I do tend to apply the same principle towards vacations (where we are more willing to spend money). Ppl always talk about splurging on "once in a lifetime trips". I've learned that "once in a lifetime" costs a fortune. So we never think of anything that way. I do like to see many of the major attractions in a place, but I'm also OK with skipping some big things if the cost/value ratio isn't worth it to me. e.g. when a girlfriend and I visited Nashville, all the guidebooks said to go to the Grand Ole Opry. I vetoed that (it would have added an extra $35++ per person). Instead, I took us to Arrington Vineyards to watch Kix Brooks perform FOR FREE. We had an amazing weekend in Nashville. Sure, I'd like to go to the Grand Ole Opry someday...but I love searching for better value alternatives.

[Kaspian]

How I avoid the spending avalanche of crazy-brain:  "If I do X, I can do Y as well.  Or not do Y.   ...Or just set it all on fire and be done with it for good. ...Ok, maybe I'll just stick to X--sounds like a safer plan."

[Classical_Liberal]

I have this exact problem!  I think the attitude, personality, and thought processes that brought most of us to a FIRE mindset lend towards this rational.  We want to do things in the most efficient and cost effect manner while planning for the future.

To get out of this thinking I remind myself how poorly I predict my future. Three years ago I'd never conceived of FIRE, five years ago I was considering a new truck purchase, ten years ago I thought I'd live in the same house until death (4 residences ago, now renting for mobility).  Is anybody early 30's or above actually living exactly the way they had conceived 10 years ago?  In general, the best laid plans & happiness creators in life change dramatically from what was envisioned. I try to keep this in mind when I want to spend extras 000's on this or that because it'll "save" me money or hassle years down the road. I'm lucky if I know where I'll be next Tuesday. Owning the same vehicle in 2019 is anyone's guess.

[Crusader]

I decided I should get a better wrench for taking off the front wheel of my electric bike when I store it in my car to get to work. I was using an adjustable wrench the guy I bought the bike gave me for free. It was okay, but the adjustment kept slipping damaging the nuts that hold the wheel in. So I bought another set of nuts and a fixed wrench wrench dedicated for that size. I went to the local hardware store and was between the $12 plain generic fixed one and the $24 Craftsman one with ratcheting function. I went with the Craftsman since I would be using it every work day and occasional weekend to assemble and reassemble to ride. Helps me tighten the nuts a bit easier and faster, and not destroy the nuts. I could have lived with it, but given how often I use it, I thought why not get the better/best tool to use everyday.

[MyCircus, MyMonkeys]

To get out of this thinking I remind myself how poorly I predict my future.... I'm lucky if I know where I'll be next Tuesday. Owning the same vehicle in 2019 is anyone's guess.

Hilarious, and also describes me to a T!

[cheapass]

The first thing I thought of when I saw the OP was a spendypants couple we know.. she posted something to this effect on Facebook recently "Well he just bought a new gun, so I'm going to go have a spa day and buy new clothes.. I deserve it!"

Nevermind the fact she's unemployed. It must be exhausting. The post just has a tone of "if he's wrecking our finances, then so will I!"

[Inaya]

my problem is with my diet and losing weight sometimes more so than money. 

well i already ate that small cookie this morning may as well eat a pizza buffet for lunch

This was me on Weight Watchers. "Oops, went over by 2 points; week is ruined; might as well eat a tub of ice cream."


Sad thing is, I do the same with my monthly budget. "Well, went over budget by $50; might as well spend another $200 since I'm over budget one way or another."

[MrsPete]

I've been noticing this about myself - I always want to "do it right." If I'm going to have to do at minimum X, I may as well do Y to do it right.

Sometimes this makes sense; for example, when we pulled out our problematic tub and replaced it with an all-tile walk-in shower, we replaced the plumbing lines and fixtures.  They were original to the house, which was built in 1970, and we thought it was wise to do it while the wall was open.  We figured that if the old plumbing went bad, we'd have to destroy the expensive (to us) tile we'd just installed.

However, sometime "we might as well" is just a rationalization.  To continue the above example, we did not replace the perfectly good toilet, sink, floor, etc. while we were doing the above.  In fact, we chose the tile to match the existing vanity. 

You've just gotta be honest with yourself about whether it's a good choice or not.

[ender]

I've never thought about this before. But it's far too accurate.

Though for me, what happens far more is analysis paralysis whenever buying something. I just can't pull the trigger on buying something. Or if I'm feeling impulsive I figure, "what the heck, we need X and we should just get it and not bother researching it [to avoid the analysis trap later when I'm more coherently thinking]."

[Metric Mouse]

Nevermind the fact she's unemployed. It must be exhausting.

As an unemployed person, I can say I would still enjoy a day at the spa.

[gimp]

I've never thought about this before. But it's far too accurate.

Though for me, what happens far more is analysis paralysis whenever buying something. I just can't pull the trigger on buying something. Or if I'm feeling impulsive I figure, "what the heck, we need X and we should just get it and not bother researching it [to avoid the analysis trap later when I'm more coherently thinking]."

I do that too. "I should get this thing/service... but it's probably going to mean I need to spend 5x as much shortly afterwards. Meh."