Author Topic: Anti-mustachian outrage!  (Read 9661 times)

reverend

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Anti-mustachian outrage!
« on: May 16, 2012, 09:58:38 PM »
I'm watching some home improvement show on HGTV and the couple has a budget of $750K for the house. They pick it up for far less so even with the improvements, they are $50K under budget or whatnot.

The guy explaims, "I could get a new car!", proud as shit of himself.

The budget is what they can afford, and this guy figured that because they didn't blow all of it on the house, it still has to be blown somehow!?!?!?!

I was fuming for an hour after, and it doesn't even affect me!


strider3700

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 05:49:55 PM »
The worst I ever saw was a family wanting to get back to nature and become farmers.  So they bought an old farm on 100 acres of century old productive apple orchard.  They fixed up the buildings and the house and got a few horses.   

Then since the horses would get sick from eating too many apples  had the entire place clear cut and were discussing how lucky there were because lots of places wouldn't have let them just cut it all down.

Now they had a really nice house, some small outbuildings and 100 acres of empty land to ride their horses on.  Since they no longer had the orchard to generate income from one of them got their old job back and they drove an hour each way into town to work and pay the bills on the "farm". 

  I stopped watching that channel after that show.

gooki

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2012, 02:47:39 AM »
I died a little inside reading that.

Taylor

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2012, 10:42:08 AM »
Watching HGTV used to be fun for me (pre-mustachian days). Now it makes me watch to scream. These poeple walk into a 3000 square foot house and decalre "It's a bit small", or demand 4 bedrooms to "store all of our stuff." Ugh. I label all of those shows under RPP or Rich People Problems. These people need a punch in the face.

By contrast Wealthy People Problems (WPP) might include; what should I do with all this free time I have now? Or what's a new skill I can learn? or, How can I give back to my community?

I hope someday to have WPP and not RPP.

James

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2012, 11:06:28 AM »
A MMM show would be cool, with each episode a new way of being badass...  I'd watch that, but who would advertise on it?   :D

grantmeaname

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2012, 11:48:26 AM »
Nashbar? ING Direct? Bike advocacy nonprofits? Longmont public schools?

menorman

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 04:45:44 PM »
A MMM show would be cool, with each episode a new way of being badass...  I'd watch that, but who would advertise on it?   :D
I'd guess brokerage companies, maybe select financial planners (not necessarily CFP because most probably won't have Mustachian ideals), other bloggers who are similar to MMM, local/regional/(national/international?) banks and credit unions that are again vetted by MMM, companies of products he or we the readers/forum members recommend, maybe local shops that fit the MMM ideal and want to offer that option to the area, etc. All of this may seem paradoxical seeing that the intent of advertising is to encourage consumption, but I think it could still be reasonably sound since it would be assumed that the consumption encouraged would be toward Mustachian products or to set up a more frugal option on some of their services, not just for the sake of consumption/lack of ability. Seeing the popularity of couponing shows (are there others that focus on frugality? I never watch TV...), I think the public would tune in a couple times. Additionally, seeing that the core of Mustachianism really is just frugality viewed through YMOYL, renaming frugality as "Mustachianism" could revive some interest in it without everyone feeling bad about being "frugal". MMM often talks about maintaining his middle-class lifestyle on 20% of the price, but having it shown would certainly make a difference, especially for those who like to accuse him of "sacrificing" much. Of course, I doubt MMM really cares what the general public thinks about the validity of his assertion and I'm sure he has even less interest in having his home and life invaded by a modern production company with deadlines to meet and a show to produce. Probably not even if some local film students were interested in producing a pilot and maybe an episode or two, although the pressures and intrusions would almost assuredly be lower.

James

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 08:04:05 PM »
My comment was a more of a joke than serious, there are tons of businesses who would love to advertise to us.  We aren't big consumers so we have money and/or credit...  :)


I do like the idea of a documentary on mustachian living.  Covering all the issues of ERE, biking, living well on less, etc.  I can't think of any documentary that really talks about ERE...

Dicey

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 12:57:00 AM »
In "The Tightwad Gazette", Amy Dacyczyn writes about how boring it would be for a reporter to follow her around and watch her frugal activities all day.
As to HGTV, I don't have TV reception or cable at home, so I gorge on it occasionally when I have access elsewhere. My worst crankypants moments come when watching the "Property Virgin"-type installments. What a bunch of whinybabypants! "Ooooh! I just can't live without stainless steel appliances and granite countertops." Makes me think the shows are sponsored by the makers of stainless steel appliances and granite countertops. Second on the list is when something perfectly good "has to go" because "it's just not our style". UGH! You hear it so often that I wonder if it's HGTV's and their sponsor's agenda to make all the sheep so discontent with what they have that they all run out and buy new stuff. For example, have you noticed that every thing is currently mid-century, modern and/or "open concept"? When every home in the land has been switched over, they will then pronounce Traditional or Classic as the must-have and start the cycle all over again. And what the hell is up with "en suite"? Would it kill anyone to walk a couple of steps down the hall to pee at night Oh, don't get me wound up...

Taylor

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 11:21:19 AM »
Thanks Diane! You are so right! The 'property virgins' kills me because these people are obviously spending over half of thier take-home pay for the mortgage. And they are "approved" for X amount, and then make THAT the budget!

I would have loved for them to follow me around on my condo hunt. See me go about half under the "approved" loan, and snag an awesome 67K condo (*mushtache twist*).

Dicey

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 01:48:31 PM »
Well, Taylor, seems I'm not so smart after all. Seems I did buy a (town)house that cost me more than half my take-home pay for years. Before you die of shock, let me hasten to add that I did put 20% down. I have also refinanced a couple of times since then to chase rates. I have dropped from a 7% loan (great at the time) to a just barely sub-4% loan now. I live in a very high COLA, so I had to make some serious choices. I made this decision with my own hard-earned money and a complete understanding of what I was going to have to give up to get what I wanted. I had a roommate for the first five years and I budget the rest of my life very carefully. Even though the house is a huge chunk of my pay, I use Mustachian principles to live quite comfortably on the other half (and, no I'm not an extremely high wage earner). Of course, had I lowered my savings rate, my ratios might have "looked" better, but that wasn't an option either.

Eleven years (and finally no more roommate) later, I'm below 50%, but still on the high side in terms of percent of take-home.  I would do it again, as I love my home and my community.  I have made and paid for substantial improvements over the years, including a kitchen facelift. I still do not have granite countertops or stainless steel appliances, even though I have plenty of savings I could have tapped.

Those Property Virgins haven't got a clue. And then they short sale the house a few years later and/or live in it rent free until they get foreclosed upon. And still HGTV never really talks about affordability in anything more than a passing manner. Oh, sorry, that's a rant for another place. Don't get me started...

iamsoners

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 08:21:43 AM »
HGTV is a case study in how not to buy a house.  I really wonder whether those people actually only look at three houses before they make a decision?  That has to be staged right?  Real people don't make decisions this way--do they?

But, I have gotten a bit hooked on Holmes on Homes.  He is a contractor who goes in and fixes all the problems people's home inspectors didn't find.  I'm getting a great education in what to look for when you walk through a house and a little instruction on how to fix it to boot.  Obviously I could read it all in a book but it's sort of nice to get it in entertainment form some times.

Some of the people on Holmes on Homes are just as ridiculous as the other shows.  One woman didn't get a property inspection because "the house looked nice" and had been recently renovated.  Ugh.

Bank

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 10:12:11 AM »

As to HGTV, I don't have TV reception or cable at home, so I gorge on it occasionally when I have access elsewhere.

Diane - they have some episodes for most shows online.  http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv48/videos/index.html will get you to property virgins.

Dicey

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 08:44:35 AM »
Thanks, B. I do watch other shows occasionally online, but not PV. It would drive me too nuts to watch it on my computer. Happily, there are other choices. I like "Income Properties" (very Mustachian concept) and as soners mentioned "Holmes on Homes".

Taylor

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2012, 02:11:02 PM »
Well, Taylor, seems I'm not so smart after all. Seems I did buy a (town)house that cost me more than half my take-home pay for years. Before you die of shock, let me hasten to add that I did put 20% down. I have also refinanced a couple of times since then to chase rates. I have dropped from a 7% loan (great at the time) to a just barely sub-4% loan now. I live in a very high COLA, so I had to make some serious choices. I made this decision with my own hard-earned money and a complete understanding of what I was going to have to give up to get what I wanted. I had a roommate for the first five years and I budget the rest of my life very carefully. Even though the house is a huge chunk of my pay, I use Mustachian principles to live quite comfortably on the other half (and, no I'm not an extremely high wage earner). Of course, had I lowered my savings rate, my ratios might have "looked" better, but that wasn't an option either.

Eleven years (and finally no more roommate) later, I'm below 50%, but still on the high side in terms of percent of take-home.  I would do it again, as I love my home and my community.  I have made and paid for substantial improvements over the years, including a kitchen facelift. I still do not have granite countertops or stainless steel appliances, even though I have plenty of savings I could have tapped.

Those Property Virgins haven't got a clue. And then they short sale the house a few years later and/or live in it rent free until they get foreclosed upon. And still HGTV never really talks about affordability in anything more than a passing manner. Oh, sorry, that's a rant for another place. Don't get me started...

Definitely no judgement here (one of the things I like about this forum). It sounds like you made a decision that worked for you. My area of living (Denver) may be a lower cost-of-living area than yours. I was willing to look outside the most trendy/upscale neighborhoods and got a great deal. I was also taught by my folks that a mortgage/rent should never be more than 30% of take-home pay, so I went with that rule for myself. But of course, everyone's situation is different.

Dicey

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2012, 08:13:20 PM »
Posted by: Taylor Today at 01:11:02 PM

"I was also taught by my folks that a mortgage/rent should never be more than 30% of take-home pay, so I went with that rule for myself. But of course, everyone's situation is different."

I was taught the same thing, Taylor. When I got my first "real" job, earning the princely sum of 13k per year, my Los Angeles rent was $375, which was about 35% of my gross wages. (However, the job included a company car, so I had zero auto expenses and no college debt.) I had a roommate, and we looked for months for a decent apartment that was affordable. When we finally found a good place, I stayed there for eleven years. Thanks to rent control, roommates, raises (and the company car), I finally got the number below 25% of my net. I saved like mad to afford the down payment on my first house. LA housing was so out of reach that my first property was a 3+2 single family home in the more affordable town where I grew up, well outside of LA, which I rented to my brother. I finally sold that eight years later to buy a tiny 2+1 condo that I could actually live in. Alas, now work had taken me to the San Francisco Bay Area, where housing prices were even worse. Though I got a screaming deal on a short sale, the payment was over 50% of my then gross. Ugh. Worse still, I found the condo before my house in SoCal sold, so I borrowed 6K from my retirement account. (But that's a whole other mistake, er, story.) All this took place before I bought my current townhouse, described in a previous post.

Here's my point: If you have no other debt and Mustachian spending and saving habits, you can make a budget that seems out of whack to others work for you. The skills Mr. MM espouses are amazingly versatile. You can figure out how to save in the areas that don't matter, so you can spend mindfully in the areas that do to you. (Sounds like Dave Ramsey or Donna Freedman or MMM. Whoever it is, they're brilliant.) None of my homes have ever been fancy or in "ritzy" areas. I'm not "house poor" because I can't afford my own taste (a la HGTV's Property Virgins). OTOH, I'm not whining about how out-of-reach home prices are either. I figured out what was important to me and then budgeted and saved to accomplish my goals. If there had been housing available to buy at a lower price (as owning was a huge bucket list goal for me), I would have gone that route. As it turns out, I think I'm doing okay despite my huge housing costs. YMMV, but don't be afraid to turn the budget on its ear to attain your goals.

Will

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2012, 07:21:48 PM »
My worst crankypants moments come when watching the "Property Virgin"-type installments. What a bunch of whinybabypants! "Ooooh! I just can't live without stainless steel appliances and granite countertops." Makes me think the shows are sponsored by the makers of stainless steel appliances and granite countertops. Second on the list is when something perfectly good "has to go" because "it's just not our style".

I hear you on this!  There are many times when I watch and think "That looks awesome!" and then they go and say one or both of the things you just quoted.  It really sucks when they are ripping out stuff that is newer and nicer than what we have.  Oh well, we can't all be materialistic.  It would be nice to buy the stuff that isn't good enough for them.

Dicey

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2012, 11:13:34 PM »

It would be nice to buy the stuff that isn't good enough for them.
Ha! I say that to the TV screen all the time, Will. Makes me laugh to know I'm not alone in this behavior.

Recently a home in my development was filmed for a segment of PV. I don't know what the results were yet. It's supposed to air some time in June. I'm sure it will be good for a laugh or two. If they do what you said, at least maybe this time I'll have a chance of actually getting something perfectly good for a song! I'll report back if anything interesting happens.

AmbystomaOpacum

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 07:09:52 AM »
HGTV is a case study in how not to buy a house.  I really wonder whether those people actually only look at three houses before they make a decision?  That has to be staged right?  Real people don't make decisions this way--do they?

It is staged. At least in the one case I'm familiar with. Some friends were on House Hunters, and they had actually already bought the house (don't remember if they had closed or not, but there was an accepted offer) when they filmed the episode. House Hunters got a realtor to come show them other houses they hadn't even considered in addition to "showing" them their actual house.

MMen

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 08:08:37 AM »
That is incredibly lame. Glad I cancelled cable. I mean, I expected that they actually looked at more than 3 houses but I did not expect it to be completely faked. I hope your friends at least got paid well for that.

iamsoners

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 08:46:11 AM »
I'm simultaneously glad to know that it's staged but horrified about what we're teaching people without critical thinking.

Also, I'd like to summarize ALL shows ever on HGTV:

Hardwood floors...
Granite Countertops...
Open floorplan...
Jacuzzi Tub...
Double sinks...

Lets buy the most expensive one.


Whatever happened to location, location, location?

Will

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »
Before we started doing our own househunting, I thought "I wonder if we could be on House Hunters?"  So, I looked into it.  Basically, what you agree to is letting a camera crew follow you around and record your hunt.  They essentially want you to narrow it down to 3 for the filming though, instead of them following you around to all 20 that we looked at (and if we had more time, we would've looked at more).  You are expected to act as if each house is the first time you've seen it, and they want to shoot 4 "takes" or so of you entering each room or part of the house or yard or whatever (which takes a while because they have to set up the lighting in each area).   Then you agree to let them come back after you've closed and moved in (I think it was 4 months later at the latest) and when all is said and done, you get $500.  I can't remember if there were other obligations or not, but those were the major ones.  We decided it wasn't worth the hassle so we didn't do it, we just househunted on our own!  So no, its not "completely faked" and it doesn't pay well.

arebelspy

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 07:53:14 AM »
Before we started doing our own househunting, I thought "I wonder if we could be on House Hunters?"  So, I looked into it.  Basically, what you agree to is letting a camera crew follow you around and record your hunt.  They essentially want you to narrow it down to 3 for the filming though, instead of them following you around to all 20 that we looked at (and if we had more time, we would've looked at more).  You are expected to act as if each house is the first time you've seen it, and they want to shoot 4 "takes" or so of you entering each room or part of the house or yard or whatever (which takes a while because they have to set up the lighting in each area).   Then you agree to let them come back after you've closed and moved in (I think it was 4 months later at the latest) and when all is said and done, you get $500.  I can't remember if there were other obligations or not, but those were the major ones.  We decided it wasn't worth the hassle so we didn't do it, we just househunted on our own!  So no, its not "completely faked" and it doesn't pay well.

What I've heard is closer to AmbystomaOpacum's explanation than yours, though I don't doubt there is some overlap.  Pretending it's the first time you've entered a room when it's really the 5th+ time? That's fake.   Maybe not "completely" fake, as the people really are buying a home (but again, they actually were buying a home.. from what I understand they often already HAVE a home when it's filmed, so again fake).  Not surprising though, reality TV is entertainment, not a documentary.
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sol

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 08:57:28 AM »
Not surprising though, reality TV is entertainment, not a documentary.

Wait a minute, you're telling me that television isn't real?

Well this just alters my whole world view.

Will

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 07:21:21 PM »

What I've heard is closer to AmbystomaOpacum's explanation than yours, though I don't doubt there is some overlap.  Pretending it's the first time you've entered a room when it's really the 5th+ time? That's fake.   Maybe not "completely" fake, as the people really are buying a home (but again, they actually were buying a home.. from what I understand they often already HAVE a home when it's filmed, so again fake).  Not surprising though, reality TV is entertainment, not a documentary.

I was going off of what it says on the production company's website (which looks unchanged since I first looked at it over 2 years ago):  http://www.pietown.tv/Shows/hh_FAQ_Buyer.html

I doubt that they are going to recent homeowners and asking them to be filmed looking at 2 more houses later just for a show.  But yeah, I suppose it could be some devious plot to dupe us.

arebelspy

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 07:33:24 PM »

I was going off of what it says on the production company's website (which looks unchanged since I first looked at it over 2 years ago):  http://www.pietown.tv/Shows/hh_FAQ_Buyer.html

I doubt that they are going to recent homeowners and asking them to be filmed looking at 2 more houses later just for a show.  But yeah, I suppose it could be some devious plot to dupe us.

I tend to believe actual people who have done it over what they say.  Like I said, I have no doubt there's some overlap, i.e. a mix of the two.  I don't think it's a "devious plot to dupe us," as you claim.  Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.
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Bank

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 07:55:24 PM »
Someone I knew in college was on Househunters and her description is very similar to that given by AmbystomaOpacum.  She posted this on our class year message board in answer to the question -- Weren't you on Househunters?

"We did do an episode of House Hunters in San Francisco. The whole show is sort of a scam since it's filmed in reverse and we never actually considered the other house we looked at- not to mention we were already in escrow."


jpo

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Re: Anti-mustachian outrage!
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2012, 10:25:23 AM »
HGTV is a case study in how not to buy a house.  I really wonder whether those people actually only look at three houses before they make a decision?  That has to be staged right?  Real people don't make decisions this way--do they?

It is staged. At least in the one case I'm familiar with. Some friends were on House Hunters, and they had actually already bought the house (don't remember if they had closed or not, but there was an accepted offer) when they filmed the episode. House Hunters got a realtor to come show them other houses they hadn't even considered in addition to "showing" them their actual house.
This is exactly what I heard from a realtor at an open house I went to recently.