The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: thatbrowncat on January 27, 2015, 01:13:49 AM
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Do you have any family members/relatives who have, well, been anti-mustachian?
My Mother wants to have a bigger house, despite the fact that she has had our house renovated to be twice bigger than its original size. It's absurd because there are only 4 occupants: me, mom and our 2 maids (who might leave 2-3 years after they graduate from college. we pay for their tuition). Most of the time, mom spends her time locked up in our bedroom, and we have around 8 rooms in the house. :( Two reasons why she wants a bigger house: to accommodate her ever-expanding items and because she used to live her a small house as a child.
In 2009, she also won one million pesos. But it didn't last. That was the time I realized that winning a million pesos never guaranteed that you'd be rich.
She invested some of the cash into a business, but it failed. She also used the cash to construct an additional room to our huge house. She bought a bunch of expensive jewelry.
Looking back, if I had the knowledge of the 'stache, I would have advised her to invest in the stockmarket, or any instrument that would double the cash. I'm currently investing some cash in the Philippine Stock Market, and it's doing well.
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My parents want to purchase a car for my father. He works ~3 blocks away (~0.10 miles), and just got his license back after 3+ years because of multiple accidents...
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This was one of the reasons I left my parents' house. My parents have been financially irresponsible for years. They refused to listen to any gentle suggestions to cut back on spending. They kept trying to keep up a standard of living that they couldn't afford. I tried to lead by example by living frugally and shouldering some household expenses, but after a few years I realized that they wouldn't change their ways. They would have brought me down with them. So I left.
Now that I live separately from them, I feel much less stressed about their finances. For the most part, since I am no longer part of their household, their finances are no longer my problem.
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My parents are not fiscally irresponsible, as they have plenty of money for their retirement. But they are NOT mustachian. They spend money like they can't take it with them, which, well, they can't. Since I know they have a good retirement plan, who am I to complain? They raised us knowing that their money was not our money. I have no idea if I'll inherit what they leave behind or if it all goes to a charity. It's none of my business.
I want to go see a broadway show when I am in NYC in April. I could get less expensive tickets to a less popular show (for good seats), or more expensive ones to a big name show (for worse seats). My parents offered me the money for the big name show tickets. I said "you don't have to do that, I have money, I just don't like to spend it." My Mom laughed and said "I know you do, but I have money, and I like to spend it."
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Now that I live separately from them, I feel much less stressed about their finances. For the most part, since I am no longer part of their household, their finances are no longer my problem.
I'm struggling with this right now. I have a few family members who I have great relationships with, see on a regular basis (like multiple times a week), and have received a lot of support (emotional & financial) from over the years. They're making bad choices with their money; not necessarily throwing it all away on very stupid things, but more of a slow bleed/living just a bit beyond their means while saving 10% for retirement type thing (and they are fairly close to retirement age). I feel obligated to include support for them in my financial plans, but I know that it will delay FIRE by several years, if not more. I don't resent them for it, and they're not receptive to my little suggestions and insist that they won't need help (wrong, I know the rough numbers), so I've just kind of quietly added a big buffer to my guesstimate FIRE number and tried to stop making comments when I see them doing something anti-mustachian.
Did you struggle with this? How did you let go of it?
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Now that I live separately from them, I feel much less stressed about their finances. For the most part, since I am no longer part of their household, their finances are no longer my problem.
I'm struggling with this right now. I have a few family members who I have great relationships with, see on a regular basis (like multiple times a week), and have received a lot of support (emotional & financial) from over the years. They're making bad choices with their money; not necessarily throwing it all away on very stupid things, but more of a slow bleed/living just a bit beyond their means while saving 10% for retirement type thing (and they are fairly close to retirement age). I feel obligated to include support for them in my financial plans, but I know that it will delay FIRE by several years, if not more. I don't resent them for it, and they're not receptive to my little suggestions and insist that they won't need help (wrong, I know the rough numbers), so I've just kind of quietly added a big buffer to my guesstimate FIRE number and tried to stop making comments when I see them doing something anti-mustachian.
Did you struggle with this? How did you let go of it?
I struggled with it a LOT. I still do. I quietly decided to do the same as you did, and build a really large buffer into my nebulous FIRE number. It's not an ideal situation, but in a Third World country with an underfunded health insurance and social security program, I don't have much of a choice. My sisters and I will likely be their retirement plan. It still makes me angry, but I take comfort in the fact that I have more control over how much financial support I give, because I don't live with them any more.
It gets more complicated in my case because I also left my parents' home because they were far too controlling and emotionally abusive. My father is a medium-level narcissist and my mother is an enabler. At the same time, I acknowledge the sacrifices they made to provide a decent education, food and shelter. They're not all bad. But I can't live with them any more, for my own sanity.
I'm still adjusting to my new independent life where I can make all my own decisions, without being afraid of my parents' disapproval. I'm still negotiating a lot of interconnected issues, such as family obligations, self esteem, and living according to my own values.
But it's empowering that I can decide exactly what kind of support I can give - how much, what form, how often. That's my choice now. They don't get to decide that for me any more. If I decide to start buying groceries for them again, they don't get to ask for namebrand food any more. They will take what frugal (but of course sanitary and edible) food I give them. I don't have to live with the emotional blackmail any more.
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Now that I live separately from them, I feel much less stressed about their finances. For the most part, since I am no longer part of their household, their finances are no longer my problem.
I'm struggling with this right now. I have a few family members who I have great relationships with, see on a regular basis (like multiple times a week), and have received a lot of support (emotional & financial) from over the years. They're making bad choices with their money; not necessarily throwing it all away on very stupid things, but more of a slow bleed/living just a bit beyond their means while saving 10% for retirement type thing (and they are fairly close to retirement age). I feel obligated to include support for them in my financial plans, but I know that it will delay FIRE by several years, if not more. I don't resent them for it, and they're not receptive to my little suggestions and insist that they won't need help (wrong, I know the rough numbers), so I've just kind of quietly added a big buffer to my guesstimate FIRE number and tried to stop making comments when I see them doing something anti-mustachian.
Did you struggle with this? How did you let go of it?
I struggled with it a LOT. I still do. I quietly decided to do the same as you did, and build a really large buffer into my nebulous FIRE number. It's not an ideal situation, but in a Third World country with an underfunded health insurance and social security program, I don't have much of a choice. My sisters and I will likely be their retirement plan. It still makes me angry, but I take comfort in the fact that I have more control over much financial support I give, because I don't live with them any more.
It gets more complicated in my case because I also left my parents' home because they were far too controlling and emotionally abusive. My father is a medium-level narcissist and my mother is an enabler. At the same time, I acknowledge the sacrifices they made to provide a decent education, food and shelter. They're not all bad. But I can't live with them any more, for my own sanity.
I'm still adjusting to my new independent life where I can make all my own decisions, without being afraid of my parents' disapproval. I'm still negotiating a lot of interconnected issues, such as family obligations, self esteem, and living according to my own values.
But it's empowering that I can decide exactly what kind of support I can give - how much, what form, how often. That's my choice now. They don't get to decide that for me any more. If I decide to start buying groceries for them again, they don't get to ask for namebrand food any more. They will take what frugal (but of course sanitary and edible) food I give them. I don't have to live with the emotional blackmail any more.
Good for you for getting out and taking care of yourself first :) Do you have a significant other? If you do, how do you guys reconcile the possibility of supporting multiple sets of parents, or only one set, etc?
For me, my parents are still together but DH's divorced and remarried after he had left the nest; I have no idea what their financial situations are like except that one of the reasons for the divorce was massive debt (credit card, cars/fun motored vehicles financing, etc). This makes me very nervous because I don't know what to expect from them or what they expect from us or will expect if they start seeing us helping my parents out (my parents will likely live with us so it's not something we could hide). I've always (since very soon after we started dating tbh) made it very clear to DH that I plan on providing at least some support for at least my parents and possibly another family member, because of the way they sacrificed their own financial health to bail me out of some major screw-ups when I was younger. He's fine with it and has never mentioned doing the same for his parents, so I haven't planned for it. I should probably talk to him about it though...
Also, to not derail the thread any further, my younger sister is an absolute idiot when it comes to money. I love her to pieces but she is very artsy and not math-y and has never had a real job (she's 19), so she has no concept of what a dollar is really worth. She recently told me she was applying for a job, and I got super excited, but then she gave me a link to the store and it's a ridiculously expensive, luxury outerwear store (like fancy/formal, not active outerwear), and her reason for applying was that they give employees a 60% discount...she's going to spend all her money before she even leaves work :(
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Well, that's part of the reason I don't ever want to get married to my longterm SO :) I don't want to take on more potential issues than I have to - I have too many financial issues with my own blood relatives!
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My sister constantly exclaims that I NEED to buy a newer car to replace my truck and car, because it might break down **Knock on wood**. I reassure her that I have a cellphone for that reason. She also constantly asks me what I'm going to do with my money. Sigh.
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She is only 19. My DD and many of her friends did the same thing at that age. They all realized they had lots of stuff and no money - now they are older and wiser, and with all the clothes/shoes from previous jobs they are only buying clothes for work now. It is amazing the difference a few years of being on your own (and working for the money you spend) can make. As long as no-one bails them out and lets them keep making stupid decisions with no consequences.
Also, to not derail the thread any further, my younger sister is an absolute idiot when it comes to money. I love her to pieces but she is very artsy and not math-y and has never had a real job (she's 19), so she has no concept of what a dollar is really worth. She recently told me she was applying for a job, and I got super excited, but then she gave me a link to the store and it's a ridiculously expensive, luxury outerwear store (like fancy/formal, not active outerwear), and her reason for applying was that they give employees a 60% discount...she's going to spend all her money before she even leaves work :(
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She is only 19. My DD and many of her friends did the same thing at that age. They all realized they had lots of stuff and no money - now they are older and wiser, and with all the clothes/shoes from previous jobs they are only buying clothes for work now. It is amazing the difference a few years of being on your own (and working for the money you spend) can make. As long as no-one bails them out and lets them keep making stupid decisions with no consequences.
Also, to not derail the thread any further, my younger sister is an absolute idiot when it comes to money. I love her to pieces but she is very artsy and not math-y and has never had a real job (she's 19), so she has no concept of what a dollar is really worth. She recently told me she was applying for a job, and I got super excited, but then she gave me a link to the store and it's a ridiculously expensive, luxury outerwear store (like fancy/formal, not active outerwear), and her reason for applying was that they give employees a 60% discount...she's going to spend all her money before she even leaves work :(
You're right. I did the same/more dumb stuff at 19 and hopefully she will figure things out as quickly as I did (or more quickly!) :)
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She is only 19. My DD and many of her friends did the same thing at that age. They all realized they had lots of stuff and no money - now they are older and wiser, and with all the clothes/shoes from previous jobs they are only buying clothes for work now. It is amazing the difference a few years of being on your own (and working for the money you spend) can make. As long as no-one bails them out and lets them keep making stupid decisions with no consequences.
I think this is largely true for my younger siblings too.
My youngest brother works in the oilfield and had always been spending as fast as he was earning. In the last few years he's created a family and is still working in the oilfield, and as far as I knew still spending everything.
I called him up a week ago to see how things were with the oil prices dropping. He's getting less work (but has other things lined up if required) and his SO got laid off from her job too. But he's not worried about it, they'll be ok. He told me everyone else is freaking out because of car/quad/truck/snowmobile/house payments that they suddenly won't be able to make, but he wasn't financed anywhere near that extent. They've also got a rental house and she's using the opportunity to get some more training and certifications.
He seemed as disgusted as much as most people on this forum do at people burning money on crap they don't need, and I felt quite proud of him. I think a lot of his change could be due to his SO also. She's pretty great. :)
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Absolutely. I have anti-Mustachians all around me.
My mother is a compulsive shopper, my father and his wife are *still* trying to keep up with the Joneses (new cable plan every year! New iPhones that they don't know how to use! New car, even though they could easily get by with one!), and my in-laws are trying to keep up with the 1%.
My father did not help with college, etc. (though the pressure to go, and graduate, was there), and I have told him, on more than one occasion, that he's responsible for himself when it comes to finances. Same thing with my mother.
The in-laws? She plans to work until she keels over, so they are likely to be okay, though I *hate* that they told my SO not to save for retirement (you'll inherit!), and my SO actually believed them. But that is another story.......
I'm not super-Mustachian myself, though I'm working at it every day. I recognize, though, that even if I saved money to 'help' my relatives, I'd really just be enabling their money-wasting. And I'm not going to do that.
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My mother is Spendypants with a capital S. Apart from a few full-time, min-wage gigs in her early 20's, she's been a SAHS with the occasional 1-2 day a week gig for spending money. Never having paid a rent/mortgage, utility, food, or gas bill (etc.) even when she was working, coupled with the fact she grew up in an affluent family gives her a very...warped...view towards money. Namely, if it's there, spend it. She also hates giving or throwing things a way if there's even the slightest chance she might use them again, so her 800-sq-ft basement contains floor-to-ceiling apple crates packed with stuff - alphabetically ordered, of course; it looks like a scene from Martha Stewart meets Hoarders. Luckily my dad has a solid company pension that is doled out to him every month that she will continue to receive for the rest of her life.
Don't get me started on the house itself - 5000 square feet for 2 people and 10 acres of land (felt too big with 4 people living there.) Mother has vowed to die there, so this is going to make any eldercare very interesting and expensive (the place is NOT senior-friendly in the slightest.)
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they told my SO not to save for retirement (you'll inherit!), and my SO actually believed them.
Yeah that is something that I thought about as my parents are wealthy, but the way I look at is that even if I know for a fact that I will be handed a ton of money, by saving and investing and living frugally now, I will ensure my own future. If my parents die that would be tragic, but I would not expect any inheritance, should I receive anything, I will consider this a bonus. I do not plan for it, however.
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they told my SO not to save for retirement (you'll inherit!), and my SO actually believed them.
Yeah that is something that I thought about as my parents are wealthy, but the way I look at is that even if I know for a fact that I will be handed a ton of money, by saving and investing and living frugally now, I will ensure my own future. If my parents die that would be tragic, but I would not expect any inheritance, should I receive anything, I will consider this a bonus. I do not plan for it, however.
This also removes a big lever they could use, sort of FU money applied to family. Am sure your folks are living saints, but strictly hypothetically seeking they could one day not be. Are more than a few stories on here of parents trying to control adult children with money & inheritance.
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My SOs parents consist of a cheap father and a shopaholic mother. What a combo. Her SIL is a stay at home spendypants. One mechanic shop to support a McMansion lifestyle complete with soccer, trips to disney, etc. oh, and SOs mom pays for their insurance, owns the garage the son works in, and continually bails them out. Us? We respectfully decline the help (we were offered to pay for a vacation that will also be our marriage and honeymoon).
My mother and stepfather only have me for a child; and although they spend a lot, they are at mustachian savings level because of the crazy income. Inheritance will be a thing eventually. Don't really care as we will be FI long before. My father and stepmother tried to whole retire early thing but we're more dreamers than anything, so that went nowhere. My fathers parents grew up in the depression (silent generation). Very frugal, retired at 59 with serious amounts of cash (I'm guessing in the 10+ million range).
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OMG I could go on and on, but I'll just put what comes off the top of my head,
Parents
- $15-20k trips about once every 3 yrs... put on either their LOC or CC... crazy
- $5-10k watches just because... no reason at all
- $10-15k car ever 5yrs or so because they never do any decent maintenance on their cars, they are amazed my car has 200k on it and still runs fine.
- think a mortgage is free money, makes no sense at all. Build a skyroom addition for $30k... only to get it torn down because of shoddy worksmanship a few yrs later. My mom was like, it's no the mortgage so no worries... WTF!!! And they got it 'just because' the bank said they could take out money for renos if they wanted.
*funny they are MMM in ways, they NEVER eat out. They don't cloths shop hardly ever.
Sisters
- $5-10k trips annually... not too bad but they always complain about money. I loaned them 10k once to go to hawaii... they paid me back in installments, lol.
- $$$ Apple this and Apple that... everything has to be top of the line overpriced apple products that they don't even have the technical skill to use. I personally am fine with apple but if a $300 PC can do the same task as a $2000 Mac Air, then it's a waste of money imho.
- always complain about money yet never put any savings away...
Bros
- my brother once said, and I quote "it's IMPOSSIBLE to live in Toronto when you make less than 80k/yr). That pretty much sums it up for him, lol
- Drives a HUGE gas guzzling car for just him and his dog... sigh
- smokes
- goes to vegas about 2-3x per year, although I'm ok with that as I like vegas myself :)
- wants to retire early but has exactly $0 in his investement accounts... and he makes GOOD money. I have to say most of his money is tied up in expensive real estate though.
I'm kinda used to them saying "I'm lucky this, I'm lucky that..." as I tell them I do plan on not working full-time before I'm 45. I don't dare tell them our current portfolio size as they'll probably want me to fund their vacations for the next while, LOL :)
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I feel like I am surrounded by them. My wife and my mom don't think a minute before spending.
My wife blows money on silly crap and then thinks she leads a hard life.
Earlier I used to argue a lot, but now I decided to add few more years to my working career and be quiet about it.
My mom invests big amounts on stupid schemes without due dilligence and then hides the facts from us.
The most irritating part is she borrows for her schemes with large interest rates.
I used to bail her out, but now she is on monthly allowance from me and no more anxiety for me.
I also decided to let her creditors feel the pain next time.
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Don't get me started on the house itself - 5000 square feet for 2 people and 10 acres of land (felt too big with 4 people living there.) Mother has vowed to die there, so this is going to make any eldercare very interesting and expensive (the place is NOT senior-friendly in the slightest.)
5000 sq.ft house for 2? Just... wow.... i don't know what to say. It's too much, I think.
I live on a 300 sq. Ft lot, and i complain to myself that it's too huge for 4 people. I thought of renting out the first floor, since that's what our neighbor did with their house, but mother is totally against this.
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they told my SO not to save for retirement (you'll inherit!), and my SO actually believed them.
Yeah that is something that I thought about as my parents are wealthy, but the way I look at is that even if I know for a fact that I will be handed a ton of money, by saving and investing and living frugally now, I will ensure my own future. If my parents die that would be tragic, but I would not expect any inheritance, should I receive anything, I will consider this a bonus. I do not plan for it, however.
This also removes a big lever they could use, sort of FU money applied to family. Am sure your folks are living saints, but strictly hypothetically seeking they could one day not be. Are more than a few stories on here of parents trying to control adult children with money & inheritance.
Aaand, Alanstache hit the nail on the head! SO's parents are many things, but saintly they ain't.
I *finally* got through to SO by saying, "Do you really want to deal with standing around, waiting for your (deeply beloved) parents to die before you can retire?"
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Mine is pretty bad too, though it could be worse. My parents are at least somewhat receptive. Major breakthrough earlier today when I managed to put into perspective how much they would need in retirement to keep up their current spendypants lifestyle, and we found out that they barely had 15% of that (with less than 10 years to go before age 65). I'm going to try sending them the link to the MMM website, and hope some of the ideas stick. Right now, they think that they have to spend on silly stuff to have any sort of life.
My cousins and older brother, though... let's just say that I'm glad they're still young and have plenty of years to go.
On the other hand, my dear SO's parents (and her as well, to a lesser extent) are the absolute model of mustachianism. Careers aren't what most people would call "impressive", but they put all five of their children through school and raised them extremely well. I doubt we'll have problems from that side at all.
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My little brother just decided to buy an $800 dog, he likes to travel as much as possible and works 3 days a week as a waiter. Not sure how he is going to feel when he realizes his friends won't want to watch his dog every weekend.
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My parents (my mother specifically) can be insanely wasteful. I visit every week and the amount of food they waste is unreal. My mum often sends me home with leftovers because she cooks too much. I can't say I'm complaining, but I do worry about it, even though they say they're doing fine financially.
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My parents were Mustachain when young to buy the family farm and work on paying it off, but now that they're about done lifestyle is going nuts! We were always upper middle class for our rural area; holy smokes it's nuts now. They're going to the Super Bowl this weekend. Which is awesome, and they led fairly frugal lives for 25 years to reach this point and retirement will be taken care of when they sell the farm to me. They also have 10% of salary in retirement savings. But now my cousin is living with them. She can use my mom's credit card to buy clothes online, groceries, and buy gas for visits home to see her mom and new boyfriend (home is 400 miles away). And this cousin is not working, and dragging out her divorce process. My parents may be paying her lawyer bills, I'm not sure. The whole thing is twisted and awful to watch from close range. And my mom blows $500-$1,000 at slot machines about twice a month. So I hope their income continues to support this lifestyle. I don't think we'll ever need to support them.
My in-laws, oh man. They make lower to middle middle class salaries and DH's mom spends like they're upper middle. She wanted a Ford Escape for a few months but had a perfectly good car bought used but still only 5 or 6 years old counting from the model year. She traded it in for a brand spankin' new Escape two springs ago, without telling anyone. And she did it while DH and I were visiting while dating, so my FIL wouldn't yell at her b/c they're the kind of people who don't make scenes. My FIL's company instituted a new rule that management need Bachelors degrees, which he didn't have so he got demoted and a big pay cut. He's been taking night classes towards a Bachelor degree. They had a few emergencies and no EF, so he stopped going in order to pay for those. He secretly started saving a few hundred to pay tuition for another night class, and his mom flipped. She went and spent it on a weekend trip for the two of them on wine tasting. She told him they don't have money to save. Really. He did it secretly just by putting it in the savings account right after getting paid so she didn't see it in checking. Oy. I do know they have 401ks, b/c she took a loan out for a different emergency, so there's some retirement money somewhere. I don't know what they'll do when they're staring down 65-75. Their house is reasonably sized, so fairly small and I doubt it could fund a retirement at the rate they spend money.
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This summer at my in-laws they had the AC on and both the front and back doors open, so the dogs could go in and out. I told MIL about the AC and she said she didn't know how to work the thermostat and not to mind, they just left it that way all the time.
Okay.
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I could tell so many stories! Worst is the Holidays. One year, after marriages, kids, etc. the family had grown to like 20 people to buy gifts for. I suggested an exchange....just for the adults mind you....females buy female gift, men by male gift, etc. Then we could actually buy 1 REALLY NICE thing someone would really like.
All my sibs and in-laws agreed, but Mom....NOPE! Not allowed!! She said you can all do that for each other if you like but "I expect a gift from everyone...." hahahah!
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Ga, yes. Just the other day I was banging my head on the wall while talking to my mom on the phone.
Context: Mother is lifelong SAHM. Stepdad got cancer a few years ago and while he is in remission, he has to still do a round of chemo every few months for the rest of his life. Each round costs around $10,000. He recently got demoted and a BIG paycut at work. They have one kid left at home yet a few years ago they went and built their GIANT dreamhouse.
My mother has been telling me the last year or so they barely can pay all their bills.
Then on the phone yesterday she tells me she went out and bought a bunch of brand new furniture and it was 'such a good deal because the nightstand was only like $300 and the bookcase was on sale for $400'
Gah.This happens so often that I've stopped trying to say anything (I did at first now I'm just like, 'uh. really.')
Last year at Christmas I gave them Dave Ramsey's book (they are pretty religious so I thought it would go over better than MMM). I don't think they ever read it.
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My in-laws take a completely different approach to money than my parents, and it's really disappointing to watch/witness/observe.
My parents retired at 51(mom) and 58(dad) and live on rental income from investment properties exclusively. VERY conservative no extra b.s spending. They will never need assistance in their old age and will not spend all of their money before they die 30+ years from now. My brother, sister and I learned to support ourselves and don't need help/assistance from parents EVER. We're all happy financially with no concern-able debt. All this while my mother was a stay at home mom.
Conversely, my in-laws apparently can't get anything right. My FIL has earned 100k+ for the past 15years, and up until 8 years ago my MIL earned around $50k. Combined income was huge, and they raised 4 children lavishly. Elite sports teams, first 2 years of college tuition paid for all 4 of them, car insurance and phone bills paid for until 21 for all of them, rent and food for 2 years for one of them at college. ETC.
One year they spent $20k taking a family trip to Mexico. Included a daughters boyfriend to make it 7 people.
FIL's made $60k and $100k profits on the sale of properties in two respective transactions. Bought an oversized vacation house in 2007 just before the crash, lost $35k in that b.s.
A few months ago I learn that FIL has kept a near full limit balance on a $20k credit card for over 15 years. WHAT!? His reason, "It contributes to my credit rating/score". (MY MIND EXPLODED, COULD SEE STRAIGHT FOR A MINUTE).
MIL complains about her "allowance" for grocery money given to her by FIL. MIL hasn't worked for 8 years. 6yrs of which are inexcusable (first two = medically disabled). She spends around $800 a month for 3 of them (MIL, FIL, BIL). WTF!!!
MIL verbally expresses jealousy of her daughters' (3 of them) vacations. In our Un-Mustachian past, we have spent whole months at a time traveling, posting Facebook pictures. MIL comments on them all saying "HOW LUCKY" we are.
I simply tell MIL, "We're not lucky Mom, we planned for this, and we do what it takes to achieve this, and we succeed because of this. Luck is not a part of our equations."
I keep my mouth shut otherwise, unless my wife's siblings ask me for advice regarding financial topics (they're not too bad considering). But I completely revoke any claims of how "Lucky" I/we are, and discredit any statements such as "I wish I could do that" as I find it entirely self-defeating.
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My in-laws are very UnMistachian. They see it, they want it, they buy it.
All kids have left the nest, but no, they NEED a bigger car! A brand new one!
MIL gets a new iPad every time a new model is released. Can't seem to take care of her phones either, and is always getting new iPhones.
Her laptop died the other day, so they went out straight away and spent over $2000 on a new mac. I think she uses her computer maybe once a month?
MIL is a prolific reader and must spend hundreds of $$ each month on ebooks. Their DVD collection is bigger than most libraries.
Garage full of expensive power tools they never use. MIL has been pretty much retired since she was 50, but they still get a cleaner to come over once a week even though she is home full-time.
FIL is on a good wage, and will get a generous pension when he retires in a few years at age 64 or 65, so I suppose I can't be too critical as they should be fine for retirement, but it's all just a bit mind boggling to someone who grew up with relatively frugal parents. Thankfully my partner recognises that his parents are not good with money.
So much money spent on food, and so much of it wasted.
MIL is constantly bailing out eldest daughter (29) whose made a bunch of bad life decisions. Bailing her out isn't going to make her see sense...
Christmas is insane. The kids are all in their mid to late twenties, and (mostly) self-sufficient, but still parents are spending thousands of dollars on gifts. New PS4's, massive TVs, a huge pile of useless junk that I wonder what the hell we're meant to do with... The first time we had Christmas with my family (other side of the world), I had to warn SO not to expect much.
They have a huge amount of credit-card debt, and they still haven't paid off their house.
(On the flip-side, my younger sister, at the age of 27, has just paid off their mortgage. They bought the house 3 years ago. My in-laws didn't understand how that was possible. My sis and bro-in-law are frugal and sensible. bro-in-law is a doctor, sis is a nurse. They live on sister's wage and save all of doctor's wage. Doctor has been driving the same 1999 Toyota Corolla since his first year as an intern 6 or 7 years ago... only now thinking about buying a new-ish car.)
They're extremely generous and I love them to bits, but yeah, I just thank my lucky stars that SO does not share their spending habits. He's not quite as frugal as me, but he's so much more sensible than his parents and siblings.
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A few months ago I learn that FIL has kept a near full limit balance on a $20k credit card for over 15 years. WHAT!? His reason, "It contributes to my credit rating/score". (MY MIND EXPLODED, COULD SEE STRAIGHT FOR A MINUTE).
The topic of "what would happen if your walled was stolen" came up last night at the in-laws house. I stated that if the thief successfully accessed my credit/debit cards, it's be a 15k+ run on the banks.
FIL laughed out loud and stated, "If some punk steals my wallet, he'll get NOTHING!"
What about your credit cards I asked?
FIL forthrightly stated, "They'll get nothing! I keep them all maxed out!"
MIND BLOWN UP AGAIN!!
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I was talking to a couple of my brothers about mortgages and remodels and bills in general yesterday. The older brother is doing ok, although doesn't seem to have his w2 deductions worked out. He loses 1/3 of his paycheck every week, most of that to taxes. But he's ok with it, because he will get it all back next month.
Other brother... We were talking about vehicles, and it comes up that he pays $280 every other week! for a nearly new Nissan Rogue. Holy crap! Even when I was driving my stupid big truck, my payments were only $318/month. His family is in a lease-to-own house that is gigantic... they have 3 kids, and a house with 7 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms (one with a jacuzzi) and are stressing right now because a $1200 check didn't come in last week and rent is due... nothing in an emergency fund. And he's talking about wanting a new fancypants big truck.
Facepalm.
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Ugh...my family is so irresponsible with money it hurts to even think about it.
My parents are in a true hair on fire debt emergency, having spent way beyond their means even though their situation has changed drastically. A couple of GAH moments from the past few weeks:
My mother just started a new job in a much lower COL area, with a much higher paycheck. Instead of saving that money and putting it towards debts, she is living it up in her new area. When I went to go visit her a few weeks ago, she was telling me all about how she goes out to multiple happy hours each week with her co-workers, and only spends like, $20! Then she reprimanded me for not having my nails done, and said she goes every two weeks now. She also buys a salad at her company's cafeteria every day for about 47 instead of making her own at home. Then she complains about not having money to pay the bills.
This one, from my father, after I had just moved into my new apartment last week:
Me: Dad, can you help me pick up a couch this week? I found one for free on Craigslist.
Dad: What do you want that for? This weekend let's go to Bob's and see what they have. I bet you can get a nice couch in the scratch and dent section for only about $300!
There is a lot more...pizza every friday, going out to dinner all the time. I wish I could knock some sense into them-at one point they were frugal savers, but have just gone so far off track!
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In order of best to worst:
Wife: natural Mustachian. Grew up in a financially unstable Latin American country and instinctively racks away cash without even thinking about it. She was initially too risk-averse to invest much in the US, but I've helped her on that front too.
Youngest sister: has always been a great saver. Saved enough money as a young girl to buy plane tickets and other big-ticket stuff, just from a paper route. Is buying a house in the Seattle area, on a teacher's salary. Always inspires me to not be such a dumbass. I'm sure I have more put away than her, but only because I finally got my sh!t together after years of high income.
Middle sister: probably pretty frugal, but she and DH have perpetually struggled in his hometown, a vacation/weekend getaway paradise with massive cost of living and real estate prices driven by money from a nearby metropolis. Are on their third kid, which doesn't help. Illnesses have been the nail in the coffin of financial progress. They bought a small lot once, on a six-figure mortgage, never managed to break ground, and lost it to the bank later. To call a spade a spade: they can't afford to stay, and they'll probably never leave because his family and other friends are so important to them. I really don't know what their plan is, but I worry about them.
Mom: Has been hard up for most of my adult life, and I was only 23 the first time I sent her money. After selling her last place, she basically became a gypsy. She went to seminary, and while she was there, her parents got sick at the other end of the country; by the time she graduated, she had eaten the home proceeds as well as an inheritance from an aunt. I don't think she borrowed anything but she's broke at 65 and appears unwilling to do any more traditional work in her lifetime. I had to send her a credit card for emergencies when I heard she had damn near gone hungry at one point... thank god at least she's finally on social security now. The upside is that she's inspired me to invest more, because I realized that someday I might be her only fallback. That contributed to my decision to build up a real estate portfolio big enough to just give her a house or apartment if she ever needs one. For now, she's couch-surfing and looking for ministry work in a high-cost town, and still has stuff in storage on both coasts... ugh... :(
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I live on a 300 sq. Ft lot, and i complain to myself that it's too huge for 4 people. I thought of renting out the first floor, since that's what our neighbor did with their house, but mother is totally against this.
How many floors?
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My brother-in-law is a doctor. He hired a nurse practitioner to do the majority of his job so he could get flown around by pharma companies/device makers to do speeches about their products.
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My brother-in-law is a doctor. He hired a nurse practitioner to do the majority of his job so he could get flown around by pharma companies/device makers to do speeches about their products.
That is working smarter rather than harder :-)
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Last year, my sister put out a message on Facebook that she and her husband couldn't afford Christmas gifts for my niece and nephew because she had lost her teaching job and took a lower-paying job with the state. I understand how hard it can be to make ends meet sometimes and she's family so I bought the kids their Christmas gifts.
A few months later, she was bragging on Facebook about a vacation she booked at Walt Disney World in Florida through Disney Vacation Club, which is basically Disney's timeshare business. She couldn't afford Christmas gifts, but she could afford thousands of dollars to purchase a timeshare. Yeah, that was a slap in the face.
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Last year, my sister put out a message on Facebook that she and her husband couldn't afford Christmas gifts for my niece and nephew because she had lost her teaching job and took a lower-paying job with the state. I understand how hard it can be to make ends meet sometimes and she's family so I bought the kids their Christmas gifts.
A few months later, she was bragging on Facebook about a vacation she booked at Walt Disney World in Florida through Disney Vacation Club, which is basically Disney's timeshare business. She couldn't afford Christmas gifts, but she could afford thousands of dollars to purchase a timeshare. Yeah, that was a slap in the face.
Did you visit and take back the kids Christmas gifts?
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My parents are hilariously anti-mustachian.
For 5 years they made $60K/year, with no housing costs (dad was a pastor, they lived in the church parsonage), this was "not enough" to save even an emergency fund. Somehow it was enough to go on vacation every year, eat out at least once a week, have a billion channels of satellite tv, get my mom a fancy DSLR camera, etc.
They moved a few years ago and were looking at 2 different rental homes. One had a rent of $2150/mo, the other was $1800. They went with the $2150 one, because otherwise, according to my mother, they would have had to put some of the furniture, and my dad's boat, in storage, and storage fees would put them way over versus paying more for the bigger place.
The term "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" is the most accurate description, really. They don't get that they're broke as shit, and I have no idea what they're going to do in 10-20 years when my dad isn't able to work anymore (they're in their late 50's; mom has never really worked), since they have zero retirement savings. In their minds, the way to wealth, or even being comfortable, isn't living cheap and saving the difference, it's a brilliant business idea that makes you millions, or winning the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes (I have seen my mom fill out the forms for that and send them in). They had rental properties for a while, but they sucked at picking tenants, and then moved out of state without selling them or getting property managers, and they were all foreclosed on (I think 3 properties?). They had another business for a while that went under quickly. My mom's done several MLM's. Over and over, they come up with something that they think will make them rich, and it never works.
A lot of their spending is on appearances. The big house, 2 cars when only one person works (though modest cars that I believe are paid for), laptops for the 3 kids still living at home, a postpaid smartphone plan, my mom's clothes shopping habit, etc. My mom grew up very poor and I think she has a major hangup about not wanting to be associated with that. I remember as a kid, being told to brush my hair because I looked "like a kid from the projects," and my mother making nasty comments about the "welfare mom" she'd seen at the grocery store. They want to believe they are better than that kind of people, and put a lot of effort into covering up the giant shitpile that is their financial life. (Fun fact: my mom refers to my dad as a "financial genius.") They believe it all, too; they honestly think that they are not broke, not irresponsible, and their big break is coming any minute to rectify the injustices that life has given them.
Not surprisingly, my mother is also a chronic yo-yo dieter. It's the same mentality - instead of putting in the mundane work every day to change habits, she's always chasing the newest gimmick.
I don't talk money with them. I'll throw out little things - when my mom was telling me & Mr Tofu about how she got a "free" tablet for signing up for a 2-year contract with Verizon, we told her how we recently had switched to Ting and were only paying $30/month for 2 smartphones, and wouldn't pay anything for the first 3 months thanks to referral credits. I've asked her to contribute to the kids' 529's instead of buying them a ton of gifts (though she never will). Stuff like that. But the big picture is not something I want them to know about, because I don't ever want to be in a position where they're asking for money, and if they know that we have it, they'll try to guilt-trip it out of us.
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(On the flip-side, my younger sister, at the age of 27, has just paid off their mortgage. They bought the house 3 years ago. My in-laws didn't understand how that was possible. My sis and bro-in-law are frugal and sensible. bro-in-law is a doctor, sis is a nurse. They live on sister's wage and save all of doctor's wage. Doctor has been driving the same 1999 Toyota Corolla since his first year as an intern 6 or 7 years ago... only now thinking about buying a new-ish car.)
Wow, kudos to your sister and her husband. I absolutely love hearing about doctors that are good savers, I have quite a few doctors in my family and from what I know of their lifestyles, they likely do not save much.
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My sister and her spouse are very well-off and very comfortable, but they spend a shit-ton of money. Fancy vacations are the biggest expense, but they also spend an enormous amount on clothes and wine and champagne and home renovations. They are extremely generous and always want to host holidays and pay for everything.
But my sister won't quit her job. They have enough to retire, even if they do maintain their excessive spending. But sister has absolutely no idea that she could afford to retire and her identity is so wrapped up in her job that she might be totally lost if she couldn't work anymore. I started talking with her about what she would want to do and she just doesn't even want to do anything other than work. She currently works/commutes 10-12 hours a day and then pulls out the laptop and keeps working for a few more hours after she gets home. She has been this way her entire life. In 1st grade, she went to school with a wrinkly dress and the teacher sent a note home to see if everything was okay at home. Turns out that she had been waking up in the middle of the night, changing clothes, then sleeping in her school outfit because she was so stressed out about being on time to school.
She earns the vast majority of the income in the household and has always been 100% work-focused. Her husband is about 15 years older than she is and he has recently asked her to consider taking some time off from work to spend with him before he dies (He's very healthy, but has had a few early deaths in his family). He has even suggested that she can go back to work after he's dead if she still feels the need.
So even though they can afford the lifestyle they live, my sister does not know how to enjoy anything other than work.
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Last year, my sister put out a message on Facebook that she and her husband couldn't afford Christmas gifts for my niece and nephew because she had lost her teaching job and took a lower-paying job with the state. I understand how hard it can be to make ends meet sometimes and she's family so I bought the kids their Christmas gifts.
A few months later, she was bragging on Facebook about a vacation she booked at Walt Disney World in Florida through Disney Vacation Club, which is basically Disney's timeshare business. She couldn't afford Christmas gifts, but she could afford thousands of dollars to purchase a timeshare. Yeah, that was a slap in the face.
If only I could. It served as a reminder not to mix money with family.
Did you visit and take back the kids Christmas gifts?
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My parents are not fiscally irresponsible, as they have plenty of money for their retirement. But they are NOT mustachian. They spend money like they can't take it with them, which, well, they can't. Since I know they have a good retirement plan, who am I to complain? They raised us knowing that their money was not our money. I have no idea if I'll inherit what they leave behind or if it all goes to a charity. It's none of my business.
I want to go see a broadway show when I am in NYC in April. I could get less expensive tickets to a less popular show (for good seats), or more expensive ones to a big name show (for worse seats). My parents offered me the money for the big name show tickets. I said "you don't have to do that, I have money, I just don't like to spend it." My Mom laughed and said "I know you do, but I have money, and I like to spend it."
I think your mom is awesome.
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My parents are not fiscally irresponsible, as they have plenty of money for their retirement. But they are NOT mustachian. They spend money like they can't take it with them, which, well, they can't. Since I know they have a good retirement plan, who am I to complain? They raised us knowing that their money was not our money. I have no idea if I'll inherit what they leave behind or if it all goes to a charity. It's none of my business.
I want to go see a broadway show when I am in NYC in April. I could get less expensive tickets to a less popular show (for good seats), or more expensive ones to a big name show (for worse seats). My parents offered me the money for the big name show tickets. I said "you don't have to do that, I have money, I just don't like to spend it." My Mom laughed and said "I know you do, but I have money, and I like to spend it."
I think your mom is awesome.
I'm a fan of her as well. :) I just don't think they are mustachian. But it is perfectly possible to be very sound financially and not mustachian. Some people make money to spend it and don't care about retiring early (not to mention I think my Dad may still have some sort of pension, though not as large as originally promised- he's been with the same company for 40 years. We of course won't have that at all, so have to build retirement a different way). Not everyone wants to live a super frugal life. They just refinanced their mortgage. They'll be over 90 when that comes due, but clearly they are counting on us selling it (or maybe even them if they eventually downsize; they actually bought a LARGER house when they became empty nesters) to pay it off. But I also know that they have the cash where they COULD pay it off today if they wanted to. But rates are so low, why do that? That cash is better off invested elsewhere, as far as their goals go. Not everyone lives the mustachian life, but that doesn't mean they are making mistakes.
I do wish my Dad would retire. He seems to have that high income "just one more year" problem.
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My parents are not fiscally irresponsible, as they have plenty of money for their retirement. But they are NOT mustachian. They spend money like they can't take it with them, which, well, they can't. Since I know they have a good retirement plan, who am I to complain? They raised us knowing that their money was not our money. I have no idea if I'll inherit what they leave behind or if it all goes to a charity. It's none of my business.
I want to go see a broadway show when I am in NYC in April. I could get less expensive tickets to a less popular show (for good seats), or more expensive ones to a big name show (for worse seats). My parents offered me the money for the big name show tickets. I said "you don't have to do that, I have money, I just don't like to spend it." My Mom laughed and said "I know you do, but I have money, and I like to spend it."
I think your mom is awesome.
I'm a fan of her as well. :) I just don't think they are mustachian. But it is perfectly possible to be very sound financially and not mustachian.
AKA, Bogleheads. Which is not a bad thing to be at all!
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
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My SO's Aunt hasn't paid her mortgage since she divorced her husband (I think that's what happened anyways). It's been at least 4 years, probably more. She sues everyone for everything and that may be the only reason she's still in that house. News is that she's got less than 6 months to leave or she will get kicked out.
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Can I just say, reading threads like this always make me exceedingly thankful for the parents that both I and my husband were blessed with. That is all. Continue on with your stories of parents who make poor financial decisions.
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I live on a 300 sq. Ft lot, and i complain to myself that it's too huge for 4 people. I thought of renting out the first floor, since that's what our neighbor did with their house, but mother is totally against this.
How many floors?
The original structure had one floor... then mom had it renovated and added another floor underneath/basement, so we have 2 floors.
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
Did you tell him to marry a wealthy man that can support him?
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
Did you tell him to marry a wealthy man that can support him?
+1
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My whole family is anti-mustachian.
I have a sister who tells me every time I see her that she wants to get married, but she and her partner go very very often on trips or buy stupid stuff they don't really need. So every time I tell her: stop buying that crap and you will have plenty of money to get married! But ofcourse she won't listen to my advice. Só frustrating! She then says: we work so hard, so we need a holiday, we need a * put in random crap article she has bought *. I love her to death but sometimes I can't understand how it's possible we have the same parents :P
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Oh yes... My parents.. I think that is one of the main reasons I became mustachian, to see the absurd and unecessary consumtion. For the last 5 years they have traded in TWO new cars every year and at the same time complaining that it will be so long to retirement (They are around 60). My mom buys new (expensive) shoes, purses and dresses weekly. When I try to bring it up, they say they do it because they deserved it after a long life of working and having very little when they were young, but they do not seem to grasp what I see so clearly, that they new cars og new shoes doesnt really add anything to their life other than more years in work.
They are not in any debt crisis or anything, but they could have been so much more well off by just some small adjustments and done what they are really dreaming about. Retiring and travelling around in the world. I get so frustrated, but I can really do anything else. Its their choice....
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Coming back to add more about my family! It drives my crazy-my mother can be so smart about some things and is really good about helping me navigate career issues, and advocate for myself in the workplace, and even encouraging me to invest in my 401K and the like, and then comes out with a real gem like the below:
Me: Just had my comp meeting, will be getting $2k as a bonus!
Mom: Congrats, that's good! Now you can afford to go on a big trip!
Me:...Or I can pay off my student loans!
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LOL, Moms are hilarious aren't they! I add another as well...
Drove to my parents place WAY out of the city... they had to move out of the city because after 30 yrs and multiple re-amortizations, their original mortgage balloooned from $165k to something like $350k. I have to admit that was like 10yrs ago and they realized they were running a deficit every year (Really? Your mortgage has doubled!). They sold the place for about $550k, got a cheap house out in Hamilton (where MMM's bro lives) for like $200k. What was curious is they didn't buy the house outright but still have about aa 100k mortgage on it... due to the payments "keeping them honest" like my mom says. I'll never understand, lol. Anyway, i was getting off course... so I drove to their house in Hamilton over the weekend...
I pull up in my 2003 Impreza (200km on it, few rust spots... looks a bit beat up but runs great still... I'll run it til 400km if i can)
Me: Hi mom
Mom: Wow, you are still driving that old car? Are you having money issues?
I have to admit my Mom has the kindest heart ever, she even offered some money monthly if I needed a new car. Obviously I declined.
LOL.
Coming back to add more about my family! It drives my crazy-my mother can be so smart about some things and is really good about helping me navigate career issues, and advocate for myself in the workplace, and even encouraging me to invest in my 401K and the like, and then comes out with a real gem like the below:
Me: Just had my comp meeting, will be getting $2k as a bonus!
Mom: Congrats, that's good! Now you can afford to go on a big trip!
Me:...Or I can pay off my student loans!
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My whole family is anti-mustachian.
I have a sister who tells me every time I see her that she wants to get married, but she and her partner go very very often on trips or buy stupid stuff they don't really need. So every time I tell her: stop buying that crap and you will have plenty of money to get married! But ofcourse she won't listen to my advice. Só frustrating! She then says: we work so hard, so we need a holiday, we need a * put in random crap article she has bought *. I love her to death but sometimes I can't understand how it's possible we have the same parents :P
I don't get this at all. How can someone be too broke to get married? I was a broke college student and hubby was a broke airman when we got married. It cost us the courthouse fee to file for our license.
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My whole family is anti-mustachian.
I have a sister who tells me every time I see her that she wants to get married, but she and her partner go very very often on trips or buy stupid stuff they don't really need. So every time I tell her: stop buying that crap and you will have plenty of money to get married! But ofcourse she won't listen to my advice. Só frustrating! She then says: we work so hard, so we need a holiday, we need a * put in random crap article she has bought *. I love her to death but sometimes I can't understand how it's possible we have the same parents :P
I don't get this at all. How can someone be too broke to get married? I was a broke college student and hubby was a broke airman when we got married. It cost us the courthouse fee to file for our license.
Obviously you didn't hire white horses with comical prosthetic horns to ride in to your ceremony or such. At least that's what I assume is meant by not having enough money.
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Obviously you didn't hire white horses with comical prosthetic horns to ride in to your ceremony or such. At least that's what I assume is meant by not having enough money.
Oooohhh, I see. They mean they don't have enough money to have a wedding. Sometimes I forget that people often use those words interchangeably.
Now I want to know more about comical prosthetic horns.
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I'm sorry English is not my first language so sometimes I don't use the right words, but indeed: they don't have enough money for the wedding. They could get married very low budget, but they don't want that. My sister dreams of a white dress, a ring with a diamond etc. etc. She even wants an engagement-ring!! That would be the first thing I would let go too cut the expenses.
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I'm sorry English is not my first language so sometimes I don't use the right words, but indeed: they don't have enough money for the wedding. They could get married very low budget, but they don't want that. My sister dreams of a white dress, a ring with a diamond etc. etc. She even wants an engagement-ring!! That would be the first thing I would let go too cut the expenses.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with your English. Plenty of native English speakers interchange those two words. I did understand what you meant, but was (1) assuming that those were your sister's words, and (2) going for deadpan, which is hard to catch in a written vs. spoken context.
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I'm sorry English is not my first language so sometimes I don't use the right words, but indeed: they don't have enough money for the wedding. They could get married very low budget, but they don't want that. My sister dreams of a white dress, a ring with a diamond etc. etc. She even wants an engagement-ring!! That would be the first thing I would let go too cut the expenses.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with your English. Plenty of native English speakers interchange those two words. I did understand what you meant, but was (1) assuming that those were your sister's words, and (2) going for deadpan, which is hard to catch in a written vs. spoken context.
I guess it went lost in translation whaha ;)
We visited my parents in law today. They have large debts. So large that they have asked for assistance from a social worker. The waiting list for help is one year. Until then they do absolutely nothing to improve the situation. Really sad to see that they don't want to try to change it themselves. I don't understand how they can live like this, with bailiffs and the chance to be put out of the house. And then do nothing about it, but waiting untill somebody else fixes it for them.
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
Did you tell him to marry a wealthy man that can support him?
I didn't think my mom would appreciate it, haha.
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My parents do some stuff I wouldn't do with my money (terrible asset allocation (mostly CDs, huge fees, on the rest, etc.), but frankly, they are old enough to take care of themselves and I don't expect them to end up begging on the street, so I don't mention anything.
Frankly, I'd hate to have my (future) kids come tell me what to do with my money, so that's why I stay out of things.
When they do ask for some info, I give them my short take on things and direct them to resources I think would be appropriate for them.
My father enjoys so we discuss investments fairly often, but usually on a more macro scale.
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My bf's parents came to visit for last weekend. This isn't actually about them: they are generally very sensible, frugal people, on track for comfortable retirement. But on their last night, they wanted to eat at In 'N Out Burger. I get that. It's a bit of a novelty.
The location nearest us turned out to be a drive-through shack with a line of maybe 10 cars up the street. So we found another, larger location 4 miles away. Turned out, at this one, the line was more like 25 cars, and more circling the parking lot. A pretty long line of people were visible inside, abd no seats. After about a minute in this situation, we just left. Would like to say we made our own burgers, but actually went to a nice local chain. But who were these people who needed that specific fast food so badly!?!?? This isn't an incredibly touristy area, and it's not like this was a very special Sunday, so this must happen every week!
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My uncle is an attorney with a really nice house in a low COL area, drives a Mercedes, and then let it slip to me that he has no money saved for retirement! He's 54. I was more sad for him than anything.
My mom bought a 2010 Jeep Wrangler in 2012. Recently it had an issue with the engine, but instead of getting it fixed, she just bought a brand new 2015 Jeep Cherokee instead. She's happy because the monthly payments are actually lower, but last for a year longer...
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I worry about my parents' retirement. They'll have enough pension/defined benefit income sources during it to be fine ... if they don't keep living as though they're bringing in $300-400K/year. They generally mentally spend every paycheque and windfall as soon as it's a twinkle in anyone's eye, which is fine while the money is flowing, but I know that my mother wants to retire, and if they can't change their habits, that's impossible. (My dad has no interest in retiring, ever, and to be fair to them both, his income only goes up year after year, with some years reaching truly preposterous heights, but my mother is likely to outlive him by a good margin, and they're both complicit in the spending problem.)
I'm glad there's a limit to how much I really need to worry about them, but it doesn't stop me from worrying, y'all know what I mean? They're wonderful people, and I want good things for them--like a better grip on the concept of "purchases don't make you happier."
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My bf's parents came to visit for last weekend. This isn't actually about them: they are generally very sensible, frugal people, on track for comfortable retirement. But on their last night, they wanted to eat at In 'N Out Burger. I get that. It's a bit of a novelty.
The location nearest us turned out to be a drive-through shack with a line of maybe 10 cars up the street. So we found another, larger location 4 miles away. Turned out, at this one, the line was more like 25 cars, and more circling the parking lot. A pretty long line of people were visible inside, abd no seats. After about a minute in this situation, we just left. Would like to say we made our own burgers, but actually went to a nice local chain. But who were these people who needed that specific fast food so badly!?!?? This isn't an incredibly touristy area, and it's not like this was a very special Sunday, so this must happen every week!
Lol ... give them thumbs up, they're not at Outback.
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In my experience the line there moves rather quickly, and a different mustachian may have been perplexed at driving to multiple burger locations :) though a drive through only long line is the absolute worst
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My bf's parents came to visit for last weekend. This isn't actually about them: they are generally very sensible, frugal people, on track for comfortable retirement. But on their last night, they wanted to eat at In 'N Out Burger. I get that. It's a bit of a novelty.
The location nearest us turned out to be a drive-through shack with a line of maybe 10 cars up the street. So we found another, larger location 4 miles away. Turned out, at this one, the line was more like 25 cars, and more circling the parking lot. A pretty long line of people were visible inside, abd no seats. After about a minute in this situation, we just left. Would like to say we made our own burgers, but actually went to a nice local chain. But who were these people who needed that specific fast food so badly!?!?? This isn't an incredibly touristy area, and it's not like this was a very special Sunday, so this must happen every week!
I eat at In 'N Out Burger every year on my birthday. If I thought my triglycerides could take it I would eat there every day. But I don't think they can.
To me it is the absolute best hamburger. I can certainly understand why people would be willing to line up to enjoy it. I feel bad for your bf's parents. They missed out on an exceptional culinary experience.
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I am one of six children. I'll start with the kids first.
Older Brother:32. I think he has 4 kids at this point with two women, jail history makes him work the crappiest jobs (dangerous or poorly paid.)
Older Sister: 30. Really common sense, but had a job for 6 years as an illegal apartment manager where she got free housing. In the middle of that, she dreamed of a job that would be air conditioned, and wanted to be a secretary type. But declined my suggestion of taking a medical coding class, because that was too much work. Now she is being evicted from the free housing(the guy who owned the property foreclosed on it.) She wanted to buy the home she'd loved and lived in for 6 years, but due to low credit and low income of her and her spouse, they couldn't get a loan. She is working a catering job and about to move into a rental apartment/house and as far as I can tell, has never grossed more than 20k/year.
I'll get to me in a second.
Younger Brother: is 25. owes several friends and myself money. Has been going to college so long that he's met the TIME limit on FAFSA as of the end of this semester. He's worried, because the FAFSA paid for his classes, and the private loans supplemented his catering/waiter/fast food joint income. Oh yeah, also because he doesn't even have a bachelors degree and no real goal with his education that is based on reality. Broadway anyone?
Younger sisters: Twins, 21. One may have a clue, but still lives with my mom, so can't have much of one. The other popped out a baby because all her friends were having one. Even though her and her on again/off again boyfriend had intermittent part time work. She ditched the baby on grandma and continues to couch surf among family, friends, and temporary boyfriends.
Me:27.5 I was not mustachian until last year when my husband got let go from his TA job. I was in debt and still blowing 12k a year on stupidity. I had no financial education from my mother and had a series of financial burdens I'll call "loser boyfriends." However, the only reason this all isn't AWFUL is because I was motivated enough to improve my lot in life and jump up to a 45k gross income by 21 years of age. I should be 92k of debt FREE by 30 (This includes husbands college loans and mortgage.)
The Mother:51
Of all this mess is a hoarding, emotionally toxic, user of a person who is now, unfortunately, the adopted caregiver of a new meal ticket granddaughter. Before my loser boyfriends, she was my largest loss of income since the moment I got a job. I was her emergency fund. She has literally, literally tried to black mail me, because I had moved out and a major part of her income had been lost. (The threat was that she would call my then current car insurance company and tell them that I was the cause of a car wreck a few years previous and that I should be paying the insurance premium hike for that. Therefore, I should pay her at least half of the hike monthly to keep her from doing so. I knew this was a ridiculous claim but the fact that she threatened this imploded the section of my brain regarding "family".)
Her financial advice?
at 14? "If you lost some weight, you could be a trophy wife".
At 18? "I'm so glad you gave up on your Veterinarian Dream, because you're awful at math."
at 19? "I'm not helping you get around anymore. You need a car. Let's go to a car dealership and get you one brand new. You never know what's wrong with those used cars."
She has absolutely no retirement fund. She stole a car (underhanded, but legally) from her own sister and sold it to someone else. When I crashed and totaled my new car, she rented me her extra car at $200 "for wear and tear." She once tried to get me to buy a 12k barn with air conditioning and heating so she could stop keeping her extra furniture from her 3 bedroom house in the garage. Last time I was on speaking terms with her, she ate fast food for EVERY MEAL and owned 6 printers. She once started a business; it was a puppy mill, and her children were her free labor. I was supposed to wash all 70 of the dogs on rotation. When she did work at a clothing store, all sorts of discounted crap started showing up at the house. And in hindsight, since she was in charge of discounting stuff, I wonder how much was truly discounted. I may as well stop there. This could go on for pages.
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AKA, Bogleheads. Which is not a bad thing to be at all!
My parents are stereotypical Bogleheads. They don't live MMM lifestyles but are (probably?) very stereotypical Bogleheads. It didn't take very many years to realize I don't like blowing money on consumer goods (cars, etc) and they stopped prodding me about it.
but my siblings? lol. They all have decent jobs but enjoy spending money. I don't think in a manner which will get them totally hosed, much more standard American lifestyles (car loans, etc). I expect I make the most of all of us but have the cheapest vehicle by 1/2 and it's fully paid off and has been for several years.
I'm glad that I don't think they will ruin their lives financially enough to come bothering me for money. That's an advantage, I guess, of a family which never talked about money.
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My younger sister used to be a typical anti-mustachian in her 20-ties. Her "best" move was buying together with her then boyfriend two motorcycles for 20k each on credit and then crashing them just few months later. Also had a Subaru sports car (albeit not new) for few years. From my point of view the biggest problem was her boyfriend with whom she also had a child. He was and still is a dreamer who jumps from one ridiculous business idea to another. Eventually he had to flee the country to escape his creditors. After they broke up sister has grown some sense. Not exactly mustachian, but she now lives a sensible lifestyle more in line with her actual income. My parents are still helping with her daughter, though.
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Ugh. Just had a conversation with my mother. She's entered the mental gymnastic competition by turning saving into something immoral.
She wants to get a new car so "it will last the rest of her years" (she's 65), and she wants to get it once she starts getting SS payments. Why then? It will be "the only time I can afford car payments", since she'll still be working on top of the Social Security.
My brother and I have suggested getting a cheap used car, or using HER mother's car (which will never be driven again otherwise) and Mom shoots every suggestion down, because what happens if she gets a used car and then it dies when she can't work any more? Then she won't be able to afford a car at all!
What about saving up and just sitting on the money until she needs a car? Apparently that's not an option; later in the conversation she was practically bragging how she's not "materialistic" because she "doesn't need a bunch of money in the bank to be happy". That's right: my mother has decided having money in the bank is materialistic, as opposed to her self-described "simple happy life" where she... buys stuff constantly and puts it on credit card.
Ugh again. I've got this terrible knot in my stomach because I have this sinking feeling that we're going to have to bail her out at some point.
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My sister is a financial train-wreck, even though she should, on paper, have a high-paying job in a lucrative profession. Instead, she has bummed around at home, living off my hard-working parents. She has absolutely zero plan on what to do once my parents aren't around to support/enable her. She assumes that since her younger brother (me) is successful, I'll just help her out because she's family! I made it clear to her that no support will be coming from me whatsoever, and that didn't go over well. She has gone on expensive vacations, buys clothes and perfumes constantly and spends all day on the internet. I have no idea what she will do when my parents are too old to support her, and frankly don't care.
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My husbands grandfather just dropped, by our best estimates, 500k to 1 million USD on numerous pieces of art (he's collected for years). His cousin, who had all his schooling and rent paid for by this grandfather and STILL hasn't passed the bar (4th time's the charm maybe?) was lamenting to us while we were visiting last month how he's "blowing his grand kids inheritance on crap". The young man is jobless and living a very expensive lifestyle on his parents (ie grandfathers) dime.
My husband and I looked at him and were like, you know what...he EARNED that money, it's not yours or ours or anyone's elses to spend, if he enjoys it then you know what, let the very old man get some happiness out of it. My husband then pointed out that he shouldn't be relying on the grandfather for money, he's a grown ass man and pointed out that he didn't even expect an inheritance when the grandfather passes since it's our assumption most of it will go to museums and the arts. I'm pretty sure my husband and I are the ONLY ones in the family that don't give a hoot about an inheritance. We routinely want to slap his very Antimustachian family who insists on living a high end life style while making nothing to maaaaybe 60k a year at the highest for one of his sisters.
Caveat because I know someone is going to bring up the "he's old and getting scammed". He buys from reputable dealers and auction houses after getting scammed a few years back by one of his trusted in town dealers. He's also FULLY cognitive and doesn't even walk with a cane or take any prescription meds, the man is in better shape then most people much younger. While we don't know how much he has, we do know he is very well off, has ALWAYS invested prudently, and that he owns one credit card that is paid off monthly so I don't think this put a big dent in his wallet.
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I feel better after reading these stories. My mom recently inherited 250k. She renovated her bathroom and kept talking about her "fun money". I showed her the math on how she can use it for retirement. She wasn't talking about blowing it for awhile so I thought we had turned a corner. Last week she told me she was going to buy a mustang. She has no other savings. She makes 25k a year as a private music teacher. She is 57. Facepalm.
My uncle has at least 700k in investments. He is 62. He plans on working until 75. He has severe sciatica to the point where he is starting to have trouble walking. He doesn't want to cut back on his spending because he "deserves" it. We'll see how that goes.
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This was one of the reasons I left my parents' house. My parents have been financially irresponsible for years. They refused to listen to any gentle suggestions to cut back on spending. They kept trying to keep up a standard of living that they couldn't afford. I tried to lead by example by living frugally and shouldering some household expenses, but after a few years I realized that they wouldn't change their ways. They would have brought me down with them. So I left.
Now that I live separately from them, I feel much less stressed about their finances. For the most part, since I am no longer part of their household, their finances are no longer my problem.
Same situation here. It sucks. Getting out is the only way to alleviate any of the grief.
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My parents bought us a large flat screen TV because my brothers didn't want to visit unless they had something to play their video games on.
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BrownCat, what I'm hearing is that your mom isn't happy with her life, and she thinks that she can improve it by buying stuff /fixing up the house.
You say she stays locked up in your bedroom all the time? First, you're sharing a bedroom with your mom? I'd change that. Second, could she be Clinically Depressed? Does she have friends? Does she have interests? Does she get out of the house? I'd look for some activities to fill her time -- a book club? a workout group? a church group?
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Ugh. Just had a conversation with my mother. She's entered the mental gymnastic competition by turning saving into something immoral.
She wants to get a new car so "it will last the rest of her years" (she's 65), and she wants to get it once she starts getting SS payments. Why then? It will be "the only time I can afford car payments", since she'll still be working on top of the Social Security.
My brother and I have suggested getting a cheap used car, or using HER mother's car (which will never be driven again otherwise) and Mom shoots every suggestion down, because what happens if she gets a used car and then it dies when she can't work any more? Then she won't be able to afford a car at all!
What about saving up and just sitting on the money until she needs a car? Apparently that's not an option; later in the conversation she was practically bragging how she's not "materialistic" because she "doesn't need a bunch of money in the bank to be happy". That's right: my mother has decided having money in the bank is materialistic, as opposed to her self-described "simple happy life" where she... buys stuff constantly and puts it on credit card.
Ugh again. I've got this terrible knot in my stomach because I have this sinking feeling that we're going to have to bail her out at some point.
I have the same issue. My mom cannot stop spending and tells me she needs her credit cards "to live". And by live, I mean going out to restaurants and buying useless crap. She has zero saved for retirement, and I'm the only child, so I have a sinking feeling that it will all be laid on me when she gets older. I love her to death, but I'm a bit resentful she can't see how this is going to affect me in the future.
My dad isn't any better at finances. He likes to think he is because he can really hunker down during tough times, but doesn't think that if he managed his money better he wouldn't have to eat nothing but beans and lentils for two weeks. His retirement plan is to die on the job (he works in a prison) or kill himself. I wish I was joking.
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I stopped counting how many times the MIL has offered us a big screen HD TV.
We have standard TV that we've had since our apartment days 13 years ago, maybe one additional (again, standard def) TV we bought shortly after we got the house. We've repeatedly told her no thanks.
FIL is a retired teacher who spends his entire day searching for substitute teaching jobs because he took a retirement buyout out of emotional frustration with the school district - without any financial planning behind it. MIL has pretty much been a SAHM so he was their income.
They have repeatedly borrowed from their 401k, such as to pay for our wedding (didn't know this until after. We appreciated the support and made it a point to keep the costs reasonable at the time, but didn't like that they went this route.)
What's amazing is that he is notoriously cheap - has a solar heating system he installed 25 years ago to save money. His entertainment is the casinos, tho he's not the worst there so I can forgive that a bit. But she loves to spend, the order out most times we are here (despite the fact that she's a GREAT cook). So it's pretty clear to me that they have virtually no savings, tho they own the house outright and basically are spending for the grandkids. I'm all for them spending the money they want to at this stage, I just don't like the stress he puts on himself always having to "look for a job."
Oh, and SIL inherited mom's spending but not the at home work ethic. She's a SAHM because after six years in college paid for by the parents she didn't want to take the test to get certified as a teacher so she worked at a diner as a waitress before eventually getting fired, which of course made her TOTALLY unemployable so she had to be an SAHM, despite BIL being a low-rung government employee who has actively fought being promoted because he doesn't want the added responsibilities. Additional joys from that side - he's getting a dole from his grandmother (which made him once argue to MIL and FIL they were REQUIRED to give them money, despite them having dinner at "grandmom's" five days a week and lots of free babysitting.) Both SIL and BIL have bank accounts the other doesn't know about, because they want to spend money on stuff without the other knowing, like stock in XM Radio because Howard Stern told him to.
Without the dole there's no way they'd survive....but SIL had to have a fourth kid (on the way) because it's imperative that she have the attention of having the youngest child.
Somehow my wife came out of all of that my wife is actually pretty sound. Never buys clothes on herself (to the point I have to encourage her to at least get a few work-professional outfits), and while she loves vacations - when it makes sense for us financially - she always plans them out, packed with free museums and every detail of Rachael Ray's $40 a Day visit to whatever city we're going to. When we first started living together, I asked her what she wanted to do on Friday nights, and she said "just make nachos and we'll stay here and watch the game!" That's when I knew I had married the right lady :)
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How does the script go when the parents run out of money and can not sustain themselves and the children don't want to see them homeless and starving?
At what point is it agreed that the kid with money is the boss and the broke parent has to retire from responsibility and accept the role of wise elder?
When the in laws have to move in because they lost everything, they have to give up their control. The children have to set a limit of how much they will give the elders in residential/subsistence assistance.
When is it sensible to talk of this transition plan and is it likely that someone who can not retire on their own will accept limits from the child they had to control for over a decade since birth?
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How does the script go when the parents run out of money and can not sustain themselves and the children don't want to see them homeless and starving?
At what point is it agreed that the kid with money is the boss and the broke parent has to retire from responsibility and accept the role of wise elder?
When the in laws have to move in because they lost everything, they have to give up their control. The children have to set a limit of how much they will give the elders in residential/subsistence assistance.
When is it sensible to talk of this transition plan and is it likely that someone who can not retire on their own will accept limits from the child they had to control for over a decade since birth?
This is sort of my situation, except my mother has a paid-off house (thanks to my father's life insurance). She has a fixed Social Security payment, but it's modest. And she's squandered her payment and has come to me at the end of some months for money to "get by."
After a huge fight about this, my position is that she won't be homeless, she won't go hungry, she won't go without medical care, and she won't be cold (utilities). But she needs to manage her own fixed income, even though modest, if she wants any of the "extras" of life. Or she can get a job. One of the two.
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When my spouse and I were first married we lived in her parents' old house that had been sitting empty and on the market for almost 5 years. They had moved to a new home. The home we lived in was over 4,000 square feet and listed north of $500,000. We made around $60k pretax at the time, and one day as we were driving with her parents they proposed that we buy their beyond a half million dollar home from them. We moved out soon after, and the house sat empty for another 5 years or so.
Wife and I still laugh about it.
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My boyfriends aunt is a shocker. They've had high incomes so spend it, and I got this pearl the other week. We were visiting for a BBQ lunch and she asked me if we ever had leftovers. I happily replied "yes! I plan to have them, that way I don't need to cook every night."
To which she sniffed and turned up her nose and said " oh I've never had leftovers, it all goes straight in the bin!" She then made a comment to her adult son who has children of his own that she raised him to not have leftovers. I think it took me sbove 5 min to pick my jaw up off the floor.
She's the type of person who thinks that because she is rich she can act like a spoilt brat. Ie cause a rucus on international flights.
On the otherhand, her husband is lovely, but won't retire from the business he founded.
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I really don't understand the no leftovers thing. I've heard that before too and it makes no sense. Throwing out the leftovers of a tasty meal is just making more work for yourself! It's so silly even if you don't think about the financial implications!!
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My husband asked me yesterday what I wanted for dinner tonight. I said "something that will have leftovers".
My lunches have been awful lately because we have nothing in the house that is good to take for work. Without leftovers, lunch sucks.
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
Did you tell him to marry a wealthy man that can support him?
Zing!
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How does the script go when the parents run out of money and can not sustain themselves and the children don't want to see them homeless and starving?
At what point is it agreed that the kid with money is the boss and the broke parent has to retire from responsibility and accept the role of wise elder?
When the in laws have to move in because they lost everything, they have to give up their control. The children have to set a limit of how much they will give the elders in residential/subsistence assistance.
When is it sensible to talk of this transition plan and is it likely that someone who can not retire on their own will accept limits from the child they had to control for over a decade since birth?
We three (sisters and I) had this exact conversation about our gypsy mother just a couple of weeks ago. She's in her late 60s, no savings, minimal income, can't even afford her own place and is bouncing from one housesitting gig to the next. We've realized it's not a question of "if" but "when" she reaches her next crisis, and we're gathering ourselves for that conversation. One of my sisters rightly pointed out that if/when we become providers, she should be expected to cede some of her autonomy by giving us more information about her resources and options, as well as some decision-making power. Or, she can become a ward of the state.
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When I lived with my family, my father came close to kicking me out because I invested $3,000 dollars to start a Vanguard IRA. I was working at the time.
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When I lived with my family, my father came close to kicking me out because I invested $3,000 dollars to start a Vanguard IRA. I was working at the time.
What in the actual fuck?
Excuse given?
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I am one of six children. I'll start with the kids first.
Older Brother:32. I think he has 4 kids at this point with two women, jail history makes him work the crappiest jobs (dangerous or poorly paid.)
Older Sister: 30. Really common sense, but had a job for 6 years as an illegal apartment manager where she got free housing. In the middle of that, she dreamed of a job that would be air conditioned, and wanted to be a secretary type. But declined my suggestion of taking a medical coding class, because that was too much work. Now she is being evicted from the free housing(the guy who owned the property foreclosed on it.) She wanted to buy the home she'd loved and lived in for 6 years, but due to low credit and low income of her and her spouse, they couldn't get a loan. She is working a catering job and about to move into a rental apartment/house and as far as I can tell, has never grossed more than 20k/year.
I'll get to me in a second.
Younger Brother: is 25. owes several friends and myself money. Has been going to college so long that he's met the TIME limit on FAFSA as of the end of this semester. He's worried, because the FAFSA paid for his classes, and the private loans supplemented his catering/waiter/fast food joint income. Oh yeah, also because he doesn't even have a bachelors degree and no real goal with his education that is based on reality. Broadway anyone?
Younger sisters: Twins, 21. One may have a clue, but still lives with my mom, so can't have much of one. The other popped out a baby because all her friends were having one. Even though her and her on again/off again boyfriend had intermittent part time work. She ditched the baby on grandma and continues to couch surf among family, friends, and temporary boyfriends.
Me:27.5 I was not mustachian until last year when my husband got let go from his TA job. I was in debt and still blowing 12k a year on stupidity. I had no financial education from my mother and had a series of financial burdens I'll call "loser boyfriends." However, the only reason this all isn't AWFUL is because I was motivated enough to improve my lot in life and jump up to a 45k gross income by 21 years of age. I should be 92k of debt FREE by 30 (This includes husbands college loans and mortgage.)
The Mother:51
Of all this mess is a hoarding, emotionally toxic, user of a person who is now, unfortunately, the adopted caregiver of a new meal ticket granddaughter. Before my loser boyfriends, she was my largest loss of income since the moment I got a job. I was her emergency fund. She has literally, literally tried to black mail me, because I had moved out and a major part of her income had been lost. (The threat was that she would call my then current car insurance company and tell them that I was the cause of a car wreck a few years previous and that I should be paying the insurance premium hike for that. Therefore, I should pay her at least half of the hike monthly to keep her from doing so. I knew this was a ridiculous claim but the fact that she threatened this imploded the section of my brain regarding "family".)
Her financial advice?
at 14? "If you lost some weight, you could be a trophy wife".
At 18? "I'm so glad you gave up on your Veterinarian Dream, because you're awful at math."
at 19? "I'm not helping you get around anymore. You need a car. Let's go to a car dealership and get you one brand new. You never know what's wrong with those used cars."
She has absolutely no retirement fund. She stole a car (underhanded, but legally) from her own sister and sold it to someone else. When I crashed and totaled my new car, she rented me her extra car at $200 "for wear and tear." She once tried to get me to buy a 12k barn with air conditioning and heating so she could stop keeping her extra furniture from her 3 bedroom house in the garage. Last time I was on speaking terms with her, she ate fast food for EVERY MEAL and owned 6 printers. She once started a business; it was a puppy mill, and her children were her free labor. I was supposed to wash all 70 of the dogs on rotation. When she did work at a clothing store, all sorts of discounted crap started showing up at the house. And in hindsight, since she was in charge of discounting stuff, I wonder how much was truly discounted. I may as well stop there. This could go on for pages.
oh my. This was a quite entertaining lunch time read.
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My MIL (51) just bought a new car this past Friday...$36k for a Chrysler 300c...while I admit she did need a car (her old 2003 Sebring was around 175k miles and having some real mechanical issues), a brand new one was completely unnecessary
She is already complaining to my wife and her siblings about being stressed out about money from the burden of her car payment.
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My father is probably going to pass fairly soon, this has my mother in a panic about finances since the pension gets reduced and they lose half the SS.
Convo I just had with her
Mom, why don't you get the house on the market now for the summer season and buy something smaller (they live in a 2500 sq ft house in NJ)
Mom: I just can't believe the prices of houses, I simply can't find anything that I want to buy, and the taxes are like 12-16k a year on the ones I would live in
Me: Mom, why don't you look at townhomes
Mom: I will NEVER live in a townhouse!
Me: Well, you can't afford to live in that house after dad passes, have you thought about moving out of state?
Mom: I'm not moving out of state, my friends are here (and I kinda get that)
Me: Why don't you rent something, it will probably be cheaper
Mom: NEVER, I'm not paying anyone rent, I want my own thing
Me: So what you are saying is that you don't want to move
Mom: No, no, I have to move, the mortgage is too much on the house, but I may need some help (from me) to float it after your dad passes until I can sell it, I'll pay you back when it sells.
Me: Mom, that's not a good idea, I don't have that much in cash laying around
Mom: Oh that's a lie, I KNOW you have money. (I made the mistake two years ago to tell her what our NW was, she was always fairly frugal growing up, figured she would be proud, instead I've turned into the meal ticket, loan your brother money for his bankruptcy lawyer, pay for our wedding anniversary party, oh we're going out to dinner, how about I don't even OFFER to pay)
Me: Mom, that's locked up in investments
Mom: Well you have some time to unlock it
Me: Mom I'm not going to pay your mortgage
Mom: well you can't let me go homeless
I have a feeling my mother is going to hate me very soon
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When I lived with my family, my father came close to kicking me out because I invested $3,000 dollars to start a Vanguard IRA. I was working at the time.
Did you owe him any money, or did he want to pay rent?
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Mom: well you can't let me go homeless
I have a feeling my mother is going to hate me very soon
Unfuckingbelievable that she could excuse herself from doing anything to prevent it, but not you.
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Me: Mom I'm not going to pay your mortgage
Mom: well you can't let me go homeless
I have a feeling my mother is going to hate me very soon
This is what I'm talking about, now that you've got money and she doesn't, if she wants to be not homeless and have purpose in her golden years she's got to accept you as the money boss and graciously fill the role of wise elder.
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My father is probably going to pass fairly soon, this has my mother in a panic about finances since the pension gets reduced and they lose half the SS.
Convo I just had with her
Mom, why don't you get the house on the market now for the summer season and buy something smaller (they live in a 2500 sq ft house in NJ)
Mom: I just can't believe the prices of houses, I simply can't find anything that I want to buy, and the taxes are like 12-16k a year on the ones I would live in
Me: Mom, why don't you look at townhomes
Mom: I will NEVER live in a townhouse!
Me: Well, you can't afford to live in that house after dad passes, have you thought about moving out of state?
Mom: I'm not moving out of state, my friends are here (and I kinda get that)
Me: Why don't you rent something, it will probably be cheaper
Mom: NEVER, I'm not paying anyone rent, I want my own thing
Me: So what you are saying is that you don't want to move
Mom: No, no, I have to move, the mortgage is too much on the house, but I may need some help (from me) to float it after your dad passes until I can sell it, I'll pay you back when it sells.
Me: Mom, that's not a good idea, I don't have that much in cash laying around
Mom: Oh that's a lie, I KNOW you have money. (I made the mistake two years ago to tell her what our NW was, she was always fairly frugal growing up, figured she would be proud, instead I've turned into the meal ticket, loan your brother money for his bankruptcy lawyer, pay for our wedding anniversary party, oh we're going out to dinner, how about I don't even OFFER to pay)
Me: Mom, that's locked up in investments
Mom: Well you have some time to unlock it
Me: Mom I'm not going to pay your mortgage
Mom: well you can't let me go homeless
I have a feeling my mother is going to hate me very soon
Assuming she's retired, it would probably be cheaper to live in PA and drive to see her friends unless she's right up on the eastern side of the state.
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Yea, she's retired, but they live near the shore so PA would be a bit of a treck, plus the only place she's ever wanted to live in PA was Bucks county, and that's just as expensive. I had to ask my husband to cut off a relative a few years ago (1500 a month) that seriously ruined his relationship to said relative so I CANNOT start doing it with my mother. She's just gotten so damn stubborn and angry the past few years that I don't see any hope for her actually doing something that is in her financial best interest.
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Yea, she's retired, but they live near the shore so PA would be a bit of a treck, plus the only place she's ever wanted to live in PA was Bucks county, and that's just as expensive. I had to ask my husband to cut off a relative a few years ago (1500 a month) that seriously ruined his relationship to said relative so I CANNOT start doing it with my mother. She's just gotten so damn stubborn and angry the past few years that I don't see any hope for her actually doing something that is in her financial best interest.
I'm assuming based on the quoted conversation that she'd also have excuses why she can't rent part of the 2500sf house out to help pay the mortgage.
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Yea, she's retired, but they live near the shore so PA would be a bit of a treck, plus the only place she's ever wanted to live in PA was Bucks county, and that's just as expensive. I had to ask my husband to cut off a relative a few years ago (1500 a month) that seriously ruined his relationship to said relative so I CANNOT start doing it with my mother. She's just gotten so damn stubborn and angry the past few years that I don't see any hope for her actually doing something that is in her financial best interest.
I'm assuming based on the quoted conversation that she'd also have excuses why she can't rent part of the 2500sf house out to help pay the mortgage.
She already does...to my my 44 year old unemployed brother and (on weekends) his girlfriend and her 3 kids (not his) for a grand total of 300 bucks a month, which now that he's recently unemployed again, I assume he's no longer paying.
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My father is probably going to pass fairly soon, this has my mother in a panic about finances since the pension gets reduced and they lose half the SS.
Convo I just had with her
Mom, why don't you get the house on the market now for the summer season and buy something smaller (they live in a 2500 sq ft house in NJ)
Mom: I just can't believe the prices of houses, I simply can't find anything that I want to buy, and the taxes are like 12-16k a year on the ones I would live in
Me: Mom, why don't you look at townhomes
Mom: I will NEVER live in a townhouse!
Me: Well, you can't afford to live in that house after dad passes, have you thought about moving out of state?
Mom: I'm not moving out of state, my friends are here (and I kinda get that)
Me: Why don't you rent something, it will probably be cheaper
Mom: NEVER, I'm not paying anyone rent, I want my own thing
Me: So what you are saying is that you don't want to move
Mom: No, no, I have to move, the mortgage is too much on the house, but I may need some help (from me) to float it after your dad passes until I can sell it, I'll pay you back when it sells.
Me: Mom, that's not a good idea, I don't have that much in cash laying around
Mom: Oh that's a lie, I KNOW you have money. (I made the mistake two years ago to tell her what our NW was, she was always fairly frugal growing up, figured she would be proud, instead I've turned into the meal ticket, loan your brother money for his bankruptcy lawyer, pay for our wedding anniversary party, oh we're going out to dinner, how about I don't even OFFER to pay)
Me: Mom, that's locked up in investments
Mom: Well you have some time to unlock it
Me: Mom I'm not going to pay your mortgage
Mom: well you can't let me go homeless
I have a feeling my mother is going to hate me very soon
Is there a trusted third party that could help explain the situation to her?
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She already does...to my my 44 year old unemployed brother and (on weekends) his girlfriend and her 3 kids (not his) for a grand total of 300 bucks a month, which now that he's recently unemployed again, I assume he's no longer paying.
Oh wow. Just wow.
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She already does...to my my 44 year old unemployed brother and (on weekends) his girlfriend and her 3 kids (not his) for a grand total of 300 bucks a month, which now that he's recently unemployed again, I assume he's no longer paying.
Oh wow. Just wow.
Yea..it gets better, he got fired.....wait for it....from Chucky Cheese
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Mom and dad have over $1,000,000 cash. No other investments, just in a savings account. They won't listen to me about putting at least some of that in something much better, but still safe.
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Mom and dad have over $1,000,000 cash. No other investments, just in a savings account. They won't listen to me about putting at least some of that in something much better, but still safe.
I hope it is at least in a few different accounts to get it all covered with FDIC? Else talk about the illusion of security vs actually having it!
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A few years back, my dad told me I should marry a wealthy man who can support him in his old age.
To be fair that is very mustachian of your father. Or at least a way to lower his income requirements.
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Yea..it gets better, he got fired.....wait for it....from Chucky Cheese
!@#$%^&*(
How the @!#$%^&*$%^&
...do you get fired from Chuck E. Cheese? Touching the customers? :P
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Yea..it gets better, he got fired.....wait for it....from Chucky Cheese
!@#$%^&*(
How the @!#$%^&*$%^&
...do you get fired from Chuck E. Cheese? Touching the customers? :P
Turned in the main manager who had been there for years for stealing (he was selling supplies out the back door essentially and writing them off as spoiled and pocketing the cash), then getting into a massive fist fight with said manager in the back office when the guy found out he was getting fired. Brother has some SERIOUS anger management problems, it's been the root cause of him getting fired from every job he's ever had (frankly I think he's got a TBI from getting thrown off a car that was doing 60 years ago, he had massive head trauma, was in a coma for a while but he refuses to go to a doctors now). He's also one of those guys that works out 6 hours a day, so he broke a couple of the guys ribs and his nose with fair ease. Cops ruled it self defense but corporate didn't want to deal with the liability and fired them both...that's the story we got from him, I don't know how true it actually is since he can also be a chronic liar.
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Mom and dad have over $1,000,000 cash. No other investments, just in a savings account. They won't listen to me about putting at least some of that in something much better, but still safe.
I hope it is at least in a few different accounts to get it all covered with FDIC? Else talk about the illusion of security vs actually having it!
They do get that (multiple funds). I probably need to add that they are VERY mustachian, and probably living on less in one year than I spend in one month. That is frustrating in and of itself though, that they seem to suffer for example by not purchasing the foods they like (asparagus?), but I need to remember that they are who they are and come from a different time. Dad used to make $50/week to support a family of 6.
The other odd thing is that although I spend quite a bit, I was debt free from 2001 until I recently bought my home, and will be retiring at about 54 (next year). I see my friends that have no kids, spend as much or more than me, can't seem to get out of debt (some even considering bankruptcy), and state that they'll never be able to retire.
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I thought it was funny that nobody picked up on the fact that the OP's mom lives in 300 SQFT and yet employs two maids year round.
That is pretty darn ridiculous right there. If she moves in a bigger house, presumably whe will need more?
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I thought it was funny that nobody picked up on the fact that the OP's mom lives in 300 SQFT and yet employs two maids year round.
That is pretty darn ridiculous right there. If she moves in a bigger house, presumably whe will need more?
I assumed it was a typo and meant to be 3000sqft.
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It's weird... my mom is super frugal and my dad is relatively cheap himself but they'll definitely spend on stuff and also tend to hoard. It's stuck in my mom's mind, especially, to score the cheapest/lowest price on whatever she can and by whatever means possible (coupons, bargaining, additional discounts, stacking, etc). I think this is where I get my frugality from. However, especially now that the both of them are retired, they tend to go overboard on stuff. Even before that though my mom would constantly buy knick-knacks and random stuff from travels and just in general... things that we would end up throwing away. And she still does even to this day - my wife often laments how they could have just given us the money they used to buy the junk and we'd be much happier off. It's true. Whenever we visit them she often has baskets full of knick-knacks in my room and my brothers' rooms. If you look in the hall closet, there are boxes of travel size toothpastes, toothbrushes, razors, soap etc that she either got for free or "cheap" but still got tons of. So while her deal-hunting might be "Mustachian" I certainly call into question the quantity of what she's gotten and also the hoarding mentality.
With my dad, it's very different. He's selectively spendy - so he'll go and spend retail price on something he thinks is a great item but it ends up being cheap, crappy, and or useless (anything in the technology or gadget category). He buys *countless* gadgets and toys. One of my brother's old rooms is full of his crap. He has like several TVs, laptops, and computers. I really don't know why anyone would need that much stuff as I'm sure he barely uses 99.9% of any of it. When it comes to toys for himself, he'll go buck-wild on anything he thinks he "needs" and will almost always go and get the very thing my brothers and I advise against him buying.
To them, all this money is funny-money anyway. He was sharing with us recently and gave us a small peek into their finances and they are basically living off a six-figure income while retired due to their pensions and investments. And on top of that, there are supposedly going to be inheritances left behind for us too. So I guess they have no real reason to be "Mustachian" even though my mom might argue that she lives that lifestyle... I would say, perhaps in the earlier years, they were a lot more Mustachian (especially my mom) but over the years I think their desire for "stuff" has just skyrocketed. They have been traveling more too though, which is good, and I'd rather have them do that then keep buying crap they don't need.
Unfortunately, I picked up some of these unhealthy buying/spending/hoarding habits but more in favor of my mom. Slowly, my wife has been helping me to quit buying crap even if it's cheap and even if it's good quality and if I think I'll need it. I was kinda crazy before getting married though.
I think my brothers picked up similar mentalities too - my second oldest more in the direction of my dad except he buys the *best* stuff and hoards it. My oldest brother is relatively cheap too like my mom and wins a lot of stuff via contests. He'll actually spend on what he deems is worth spending on and will not overextend himself. So he is probably the most sensible out of all of us in terms of spending, but I think hoarding is still somewhat of a problem.
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About MishMash's mom: She is about to lose her husband. Some of her stubbornness in not wanting to find a financial solution could be more about sadness/anger/frustration at losing her husband. I read once that a widow should not make any financial decisions in the first year after her husband's death because the emotions are just too raw to make good decision. Now that might not be possible in this situation but sadness could be a contributing factor in not wanting to leave the home she has been sharing with him for however many years.
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About MishMash's mom: She is about to lose her husband. Some of her stubbornness in not wanting to find a financial solution could be more about sadness/anger/frustration at losing her husband. I read once that a widow should not make any financial decisions in the first year after her husband's death because the emotions are just too raw to make good decision. Now that might not be possible in this situation but sadness could be a contributing factor in not wanting to leave the home she has been sharing with him for however many years.
I don't disagree, however, they have talked about moving for years, literally like 5 or 10, and never have. They have chronic failure to ever pull the trigger syndrome and this is a conversation (minus my father being ill part) that we've had numerous times over the years. My mother is a chronic complainer that "none of her dreams came true" yet she has essentially never done anything to MAKE them come true (she also routinely tells us that none of ours will come true and we need to face reality that we won't retire early, won't live our dreams etc) so I know if we do this after the fact she's going to be even MORE stubborn about not wanting to leave because that will be the final straw of her "dreams not coming true". If my dad passes she automatically will not be able to pay the mortgage as my father has no life insurance, nor does she since they couldn't afford the premiums.