Author Topic: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --  (Read 7680 times)

Tallgirl1204

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Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« on: February 12, 2015, 02:09:32 PM »
Reading about anti-mustachian relatives made me think of my relatives.  Except in the anti-mustachian sense, they are not a source of fun-- they are pretty dang frugal.  So frugal, in fact, they are hilarious.  No need to say that my favorite, cousin "Davey," is an elderly child of the depression. 

Cousin Davey:

...Wears socks until they are full of holes.  Where-upon he wears them two pairs at a time, mis-aligning the holes so that he has full foot coverage. 

...Keeps and uses a "clothing tree" made for him by another cousin as a joke.  At night, he hangs all of his clothes, including socks (see above) on the clothing tree to air out, so he can get another day out of them. 

...Uses the fleet of old cars (donated by relatives, mostly) in his yard as storage units for stuff someone might need someday.  Which we might, and if we do, Cousin Davey will have it. 

O.k., your turn. 

jmusic

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 02:37:49 PM »
Nothing to add, but that's just...

Wow.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 02:38:11 PM »
That's not anti anti mustachian (so a "mustacian")... that's a hoarder kook.
;)

There's a difference in being frugal and being a cheapskate that is kind of sick in the head.


My dad was like that, also a child of the depression, and definitely a full-scale hoarder. Absolutely miserable growing up in that mess and made visits home a source of misery and contention (and could not get out of there fast enough).

jmusic

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 02:53:18 PM »
Excellent case study for this article:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/24/frugal-vs-cheap/

I'm beginning to think that Mustachians are more likely to be minimalists than hoarders. 

Minimalism:  Recognizing that the possessions you "own" actually own you through time spent acquiring, maintaining, and disposing of said possessions.  Therefore own less stuff, and own only things that add value to your life in some way.

Hoarding:  "But it's WORTH something..."


Edited to add: 
Quote
Frugal does not mean Owning Mostly Crap:
 
A cheap person may live for decades with the sorriest old fridge he could find on Craigslist. A frugal person might have a relatively new, and even nice looking, fridge, and yet spend less money owning and operating it. Similarly, the frugal person might own a more expensive bike or pair of shoes. The key to this counter-intuitive trick is to factor in things like energy consumption, longevity, time saved by owning a more effective product, and even life satisfaction derived from having a few very good things that you use every day. Frugal people still get to own and enjoy top-quality assets, tools, and investments.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 02:55:01 PM by jmusic »

johnny847

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 02:55:39 PM »
Oh I have one. It's not that they're frugal to the extent that it's hilarious, but

My parents could've bought their house in cash, but got a mortgage instead, got a US treasury bond with a yield slightly greater than his mortgage rate, and claimed the home mortgage interest deduction (without that tax deduction, that would probably have a losing proposition because the return of bond interest is reduced by taxes, whereas the "return" of paying down a debt is not unless you include the home mortgage interest tax deduction.)

Wolf_Stache

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 03:33:49 PM »
Oh I have one. It's not that they're frugal to the extent that it's hilarious, but

My parents could've bought their house in cash, but got a mortgage instead, got a US treasury bond with a yield slightly greater than his mortgage rate, and claimed the home mortgage interest deduction (without that tax deduction, that would probably have a losing proposition because the return of bond interest is reduced by taxes, whereas the "return" of paying down a debt is not unless you include the home mortgage interest tax deduction.)

That is awesome.

stashy

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 03:37:50 PM »
I've got a crazy one for you-

My dad's friend is the cheapest son of a bitch I've ever met.  I'm not making this up- When his father passed away he had him declared an invalid (homeless) so that the county would pay for his cremation.  That's only one of many incredible things this guy does.  source of endless amazement

Tallgirl1204

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 04:01:59 PM »
I never thought of cousin Davey as a hoarder-- he just doesn't throw away stuff he regards as potentially useful (and if I look at it right, I could too...).  I've been in hoarder houses, and his doesn't qualify-- it's just the cars in the yard that act as storage units that could be considered a little eccentric.  And he lives five miles outside of town, so he's not bothering the neighbors... 

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."  That's his motto. 

I told the sock story at a party once, and years later one of the grad students then in attendance thanked me for giving him a trick to save money on socks for the rest of his life... 

bigalsmith101

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 11:53:48 PM »
I've got one.

My Dad woke up one day and had finally had enough of being the working stiff, so he got online and looked for the absolute lowest interest rate he could get on a home equity line of credit.

He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He then proceeded to pay off the remaining mortgage balances on his two rental properties, a triplex and a duplex. His net rental income on the two properties jumped from $700/mo to $4500/mo. He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.

This was 5 years ago. He was 56, mom was 50. Next year he'll hit 62 and social security will pay him another $1250/mo ($15k/yr). He giggles when he thinks about that, because they'r already retired... Mom was a homemaker. :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 11:56:05 PM by bigalsmith101 »

Goldielocks

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2015, 12:13:23 AM »
Relative makes pumpkin pie using carrots from her garden instead of pumpkin...

Also makes fruitcake using raisins and candied peel only, and then gives them for Christmas presents to her family of two brothers, one son and a couple of friends. Eg not a large group.

Only son, did not know that  roast beef or turkey could be bought as deli meat.. He had only known head cheese, bologna and ham.  And PB...

She bought a nice Christmas present for son, maybe $200 in today's dollars, but explained that it was for the next two birthdays and Christmases too.  He just got a card until he was 18, with a reference to that gift.

Lots of other frugal ideas that I actually think were quite inventive and neat... 

But the kicker?
She worked as a computer programmer for the government then IBM for about 35 years in a low COL area.  She had plenty of moiney!

marty998

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2015, 12:16:30 AM »
I never thought of cousin Davey as a hoarder-- he just doesn't throw away stuff he regards as potentially useful (and if I look at it right, I could too...).  I've been in hoarder houses, and his doesn't qualify-- it's just the cars in the yard that act as storage units that could be considered a little eccentric.  And he lives five miles outside of town, so he's not bothering the neighbors... 

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."  That's his motto. 

I told the sock story at a party once, and years later one of the grad students then in attendance thanked me for giving him a trick to save money on socks for the rest of his life...

Do you not then have to buy twice as many pairs of socks because you're wearing 2 pairs at once?

Adventine

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2015, 03:30:15 AM »
Relative makes pumpkin pie using carrots from her garden instead of pumpkin...

Why not just make carrot cake??

kathrynd

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2015, 04:39:54 AM »
I never thought of cousin Davey as a hoarder-- he just doesn't throw away stuff he regards as potentially useful (and if I look at it right, I could too...).  I've been in hoarder houses, and his doesn't qualify-- it's just the cars in the yard that act as storage units that could be considered a little eccentric.  And he lives five miles outside of town, so he's not bothering the neighbors... 

"Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without."  That's his motto. 

I told the sock story at a party once, and years later one of the grad students then in attendance thanked me for giving him a trick to save money on socks for the rest of his life...

Do you not then have to buy twice as many pairs of socks because you're wearing 2 pairs at once?

We buy our socks in  bulk, so they are all the same color, and style.
This way when one wears out, we have lots of others to match it up with.

Gockie

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2015, 05:35:25 AM »
I've got one.

My Dad woke up one day and had finally had enough of being the working stiff, so he got online and looked for the absolute lowest interest rate he could get on a home equity line of credit.

He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He then proceeded to pay off the remaining mortgage balances on his two rental properties, a triplex and a duplex. His net rental income on the two properties jumped from $700/mo to $4500/mo. He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.

This was 5 years ago. He was 56, mom was 50. Next year he'll hit 62 and social security will pay him another $1250/mo ($15k/yr). He giggles when he thinks about that, because they'r already retired... Mom was a homemaker. :)

Bigalsmith, thanks for sharing, excellent story! That's not a bad idea to copy but where I live (Australia) it's not really possible to refinance at 1.9% for 30 years. Our best rate would generally be >4.5%, and while it might be possible to get a 10 year fixed loan, nobody advertises fixed rates for periods more than 5 years. If I ever was to go live in the USA I may just copy your dad's idea.

OP, I'll copy that two sock idea too! It's a good one! My guideline has been to throw out socks when they finally hit two holes (usually holes in the toes, but I also sometimes wear out socks at the back of the heel too). This could make them last for quite a few more wears!

Any good tips on socks that lose elastic at the top though? I have a lot of still good condition (perhaps even new condition) sports socks that sadly have lost their elasticity. I blame the partner for always washing them in 60*C hot water (I've since asked him to wash my socks in cool water).
Ps. In case you are wondering. My job is the dishes. His is the laundry. Doing Laundry does not include ironing or putting away my clothes...

kander

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2015, 05:42:10 AM »
My grandparents are quite greedy.

Serve the visit stale biscuits , because they never throw things away.
Never put on more then one light.
Such things...

Rural

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2015, 06:42:07 AM »
Cousin Davey doesn't sound like a hoarder or a kook to me. If relatives keep having a use for the things he's storing on their behalf, I'd say that's proof that he's making good selections for things to store. The proof of "might be useful someday" it's when somebody uses it, after all.


I guess I'm saying that there definitely is such a thing as hoarding out there, but I think it's equally possible to go too far in the other direction. I've had people on here tell me I should throw out tools if I don't use them in six months. As in most things, the middle road is probably the best one.

Goldielocks

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2015, 08:13:43 AM »
Relative makes pumpkin pie using carrots from her garden instead of pumpkin...

Why not just make carrot cake??
Because it was thanksgiving, and she would not tell guests.  I found out her secret after a couple of years.  We just thought she had a bad recipe...

Adventine

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2015, 08:14:51 AM »
Relative makes pumpkin pie using carrots from her garden instead of pumpkin...

Why not just make carrot cake??
Because it was thanksgiving, and she would not tell guests.  I found out her secret after a couple of years.  We just thought she had a bad recipe...

Oh God that is just awful.

ninjaneer

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2015, 07:04:01 PM »


He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.

But if he's only paying the interest, won't he have a big balloon to pay in 25 years?

Goldielocks

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2015, 07:27:15 PM »


He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.

But if he's only paying the interest, won't he have a big balloon to pay in 25 years?
Good chance that they will sell the primary property or change financing before he is 86 yrs old, I think.

Gockie

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2015, 09:11:00 PM »


He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.

But if he's only paying the interest, won't he have a big balloon to pay in 25 years?

I would think it would be worth many times over the value of the mortgage in 25 years time. 5 years ago would have been the bottom of the market. Even if the value of it increases by a conservative 3% pa, it would be worth 236% more than the value 30 years ago.

bigalsmith101

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2015, 01:33:55 AM »


He found what he was looking for and went into the bank and took out a  home equity line of credit at an interest only rate of 1.9% @ 30yrs. His monthly repayment for that loan is $600/mo.

He uses the $4500 rental income to pay down the interest only loan and is left with a retirement income of $3900/mo.
But if he's only paying the interest, won't he have a big balloon to pay in 25 years?
Quote from: goldielocks
Good chance that they will sell the primary property or change financing before he is 86 yrs old, I think.
I would think it would be worth many times over the value of the mortgage in 25 years time. 5 years ago would have been the bottom of the market. Even if the value of it increases by a conservative 3% pa, it would be worth 236% more than the value 30 years ago.

Honestly, I don't know how long my parents will keep the house. They can keep it for the next 20 years without changing a thing. Before he refinanced he painted, sided, and otherwise revamped the exterior. The house is in excellent condition. When he paid siding contractors to do the house, he said to me, "This will probably be the last time I spend any major money on this house until I die"

If they keep it for the next 25 years, Mom will be 80, Dad will be very likely not be alive at 86. I foresee then selling within 3-5 years. If he catches the height of this current market before it implodes again, he'll be way ahead. The original mortgage in 1990 was $220k. House sits on an acre and is 4200sq ft. (Basement is 1200 sqft 2bd 1ba rental :) ) Value is currently around $560k. He had 18 years equity in the home before he refinanced. If they sold tomorrow, they'd probably generate $200k'ish free and clear after repaying the HELOC. I don't really know. At the height of the market in 2007/8 it was closer to $625k valuation.

So, yea, they'll sell and move, or live in it till Padre kicks it. Either way, it won't matter to them. And it certainly won't be an issue when the loan becomes due either. So, for now it's a non-issue while they road trip around the South West US in a 1994 Suburban (yet another anti-anti mustachian trait. HOTELS?! For what?!)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 01:37:06 AM by bigalsmith101 »

mydogismyheart

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2015, 03:17:28 PM »
I get irritated with my spendy pants parents always making fun of my mom's sister and her family.  Always calling them cheapskates.  To me, they seem to be doing very well, just because they don't like to spend all their money on crap like my parents do on a daily basis.  They have a nice little home they purchased in the 70's that is completely paid off.  They drive older cars. They have a home in Arizona they purchased with cash so they could be snow birds.  They travel quite a bit in their retirement. They also retired slightly early in their 50s.  Seems like a good life to me.  Yet my mom always gets so pissed off that her sister doesn't want to "go out for a fancy lunch" or "buy each other fancy presents for holidays". Blows my mind.  My parents are in their 60s, struggling, have no money for anything fun, pretty much just sit in front of their TV and find ways to spend money they don't have. Then call my aunt and uncle "cheapskates". Well, if that's the definition of a "cheapskate", sign me up!!!

kathrynd

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Re: Anti-anti-mustachian relatives --
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2015, 08:34:33 PM »
maybe you could start stating you hope to learn from them, because you admire their lifestyle (aunt's)
Hold them up as good role models.

Sometimes, others make fun of 'cheapskates' because they don't want to admit how terrible they are with money.

I know people who say, I never check prices at the grocery store...then say "I wish I could retire,like you"
Same people keep trading in their vehicles, going away for vacations, buying hot tubs, swimming pools, multiple expensive pets (when free ones are available)