Author Topic: And you don't think this is a problem?  (Read 16903 times)

woopwoop

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2016, 12:13:15 PM »
So why not apply the same logic to other plants? Why isn't everyone's entire vegetable garden grown hydroponically in their basements?
If tomatoes were to cost $20 per tomato, and you could increase your yield and lower your pest damage by growing indoors, you bet your sweet ass we'd all be growing hydroponic tomatoes indoors. And if tomatoes cost $20 per tomato, how long do you think your tomato plants would go unmolested by neighborhood kids?

There's also the issue of outdoor grows being perceived as a nuisance by neighbors who don't agree with MJ use. My neighbor has a nice outdoor grow in his backyard that he keeps out of sight, but once during a heavy rain he moved the plants onto his porch. The rest of the street were all talking about it, some in not-nice tones. He's a senior who uses the plants for pain relief, but it's still a huge stigma. With indoor grows you avoid all of these problems.

And yes, there are probably some people who are growing more than their share of plants (but remember - they can have up to X plants PER CARD, so if they have a few friends with cards who are not growing, they can pool them to do a grow together up to a certain amount)*. But sure, go ahead thinking that indoor growers are all asshole criminals skirting the law if that's what you want to believe.

*[In Colorado, home growers are allowed to have up to six plants per person or 12 per household, but you can only have half flowering at a time. When you grow outdoors, expect all plants to flower at the same time.] - another reason to not grow outside
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 12:16:11 PM by MrsWhipple »

nereo

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2016, 12:23:29 PM »
So why not apply the same logic to other plants? Why isn't everyone's entire vegetable garden grown hydroponically in their basements?
If tomatoes were to cost $20 per tomato, and you could increase your yield and lower your pest damage by growing indoors, you bet your sweet ass we'd all be growing hydroponic tomatoes indoors. And if tomatoes cost $20 per tomato, how long do you think your tomato plants would go unmolested by neighborhood kids?

There's also the issue of outdoor grows being perceived as a nuisance by neighbors who don't agree with MJ use. My neighbor has a nice outdoor grow in his backyard that he keeps out of sight, but once during a heavy rain he moved the plants onto his porch. The rest of the street were all talking about it, some in not-nice tones. He's a senior who uses the plants for pain relief, but it's still a huge stigma. With indoor grows you avoid all of these problems.

And yes, there are probably some people who are growing more than their share of plants (but remember - they can have up to X plants PER CARD, so if they have a few friends with cards who are not growing, they can pool them to do a grow together up to a certain amount)*. But sure, go ahead thinking that indoor growers are all asshole criminals skirting the law if that's what you want to believe.

*[In Colorado, home growers are allowed to have up to six plants per person or 12 per household, but you can only have half flowering at a time. When you grow outdoors, expect all plants to flower at the same time.] - another reason to not grow outside

I agree with the first half of what you said and it raises a point I hadn't considered.
The line I highlighted in bold in bold seems unnecessarily harsh.  I never called anyone an asshole criminal.  I merely pointed out that a person can grow 4 plants (apparently per card, thanks for correcting) so should they want/need to grow more and avoid raising questions (and you clearly pointed out there's a stigma involved) then it is logical that some people would choose to grow indoors and out of sight.
Regardless, four plants with grow lights is going to have a small impact on your electricity bill.  Dozens of plants might.

Goldielocks

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2016, 01:24:25 PM »
I still don't get why they don't just grow the damn things outside. My Oregon in-laws claim hydroponic stuff is better-quality or something, but I find it hard to believe that stoners would go to the extra effort.
Outdoor grows are much harder to keep free of contamination (fertilization) and have much worse yields, plus the shorter season for growing. I don't know why you're so dismissive of mj growers, that's like saying "ugh, do people really care about the hops content in their beer? It's hard to believe drunks would go to the extra effort to make microbrews."

So why not apply the same logic to other plants? Why isn't everyone's entire vegetable garden grown hydroponically in their basements?

It seems unreasonable to me that the vast majority of marijuana users would care about such things in the same way that the vast majority of people aren't foodies. It makes me think the common practice of growing it indoors is more a relic of the fact that growing outside used to not be an choice, and that the quality argument is mostly a red herring.

The actual point I was trying to get it is that the legalization of marijuana doesn't have to cause increased electricity use; it only does so in practice because people aren't thinking through their options.

(Of course, I suppose I could be totally off-base and the DEA is flying surveillance planes across people's backyards and continuing to arrest them for it despite it being legal under state law, or something. If that's the case, never mind.)
Wouldn't you have a large risk, if grown outside, of your crop disappearing just before you are ready to harvest?   I sometimes have neighbors take my veggies / fruits...(I plant in the front yard beds) ..  It is not hard to imagine that an MJ crop would also be a target.   

woopwoop

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2016, 05:47:05 PM »
The line I highlighted in bold in bold seems unnecessarily harsh.  I never called anyone an asshole criminal. 
Sorry, I was responding to Jack who seems to be unnecessarily dismissive of "stoners." I'll admit it's a sore spot for me as many of my friends and neighbors are wonderful, ambitious and caring people who also happen to grow weed for personal use, and it irks me when people make assumptions about them based solely on that.

Kaydedid

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2016, 06:57:34 PM »
I had 2 huge racks of seedlings and grow lights for my veggie gardens 2 years ago.  They were at the front of the house, right behind a window, and we live on a busy road.  Apparently a lot of folks saw them, and husband got some ribbing from guys at work about our 'setup'.  Did cause a spike in the electric bill, although saved a bundle on the 400+ plants vs buying seedlings! 

maco

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2016, 07:24:43 PM »
Reynaud's Syndrome?  Or just not acclimated to cold?

Nah, Reynaud's would be my sister. I don't turn funny colors.

I'm just a thin woman who's way happier with summer temperatures. Broken air conditioner in the DC area? I'll drink some ice water and be fine. A week in August wearing wool dresses every day while walking several miles and shooting archery? I'll drink some ice water and be fine.

[/quote]
She frequently wears a coat and hat inside despite the fact that we keep the house at 68 for her.
I would too! 68...fingers go numb just thinking about it. Brrr!

Ok, actually I've got my house at 70 and my fingers and toes are both numb right now. I'm wearing wool long underwear under my clothes and wool socks. I should go put my bathrobe on over my clothes and make a hot cup of tea to thaw my fingers.

You should seriously look into whether you have a medical issue, if you haven't already. That is not how most people work.

(Or you were joking.)

It's not how most men work, but remember, the standard temperature for in an office is 72 degrees, and all us women are freezing our buns off, wearing coats and scarves and hiding space heaters under our desks. We actually do run at a different temperature than men.

Also, I'm pretty sedentary. My mouse hand is always the first part of me to go numb at the computer, which I sit in front of for most of the day. If I was running around the house scrubbing the bathroom, changing the laundry, back up the stairs to check on dinner, clean the kitchen, etc etc, then I'd be comfortable at a temperature lower than 80. No, seriously, 80 is the temperature at which I take off my hoodie. I learned that when my AC was dead. I can't stand the feel of the air conditioner on my bare arms--instant goosebumps--so if I'm in a t-shirt in the summer I wear a hoodie. Mostly I just wear long sleeves now, though, as protection against both cold winter air and air conditioners. Spring and fall are only like 2 weeks long here, anyway.

Apples

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2016, 02:26:42 PM »
Reynaud's Syndrome?  Or just not acclimated to cold?

She frequently wears a coat and hat inside despite the fact that we keep the house at 68 for her.
I would too! 68...fingers go numb just thinking about it. Brrr!

Ok, actually I've got my house at 70 and my fingers and toes are both numb right now. I'm wearing wool long underwear under my clothes and wool socks. I should go put my bathrobe on over my clothes and make a hot cup of tea to thaw my fingers.

Could be the radiant cold coming in from the windows.  We keep our house at 67 because at 65 my fingers, toes, and nose are cold.  At 67 I am still dressed in full winter clothes.  We have a lot of windows and the thermostat is in the center of a room, so while we feel the effects from the windows it doesn't kick our heat on as quickly.  I also wear wool socks and long johns all winter, and at least two layers on top.  And I'm only 25, so this isn't something due to aging.  If I sit still at home, my fingers start to get very cold and a bit stiff.  Every 20 minutes I try to get up and go do something to keep my blood pumping to the ends of those digits.

maco

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2016, 02:34:10 PM »
Reynaud's Syndrome?  Or just not acclimated to cold?

She frequently wears a coat and hat inside despite the fact that we keep the house at 68 for her.
I would too! 68...fingers go numb just thinking about it. Brrr!

Ok, actually I've got my house at 70 and my fingers and toes are both numb right now. I'm wearing wool long underwear under my clothes and wool socks. I should go put my bathrobe on over my clothes and make a hot cup of tea to thaw my fingers.

Could be the radiant cold coming in from the windows.  We keep our house at 67 because at 65 my fingers, toes, and nose are cold.  At 67 I am still dressed in full winter clothes.  We have a lot of windows and the thermostat is in the center of a room, so while we feel the effects from the windows it doesn't kick our heat on as quickly.  I also wear wool socks and long johns all winter, and at least two layers on top.  And I'm only 25, so this isn't something due to aging.  If I sit still at home, my fingers start to get very cold and a bit stiff.  Every 20 minutes I try to get up and go do something to keep my blood pumping to the ends of those digits.
We have modern double-glazed windows, and we have drapes too, so the windows shouldn't be giving off much cold (though I don't know about the insulation in the walls). The thermostat is in the dead center of  the house, but that's only 12ft from every wall! (I'm also in my 20s)

Jack

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2016, 02:41:08 PM »
Oh, I get it now: despite marijuana being legalized, growing it is still excessively regulated, resulting in market distortions and such that make it risky to grow outside.

Thanks, everybody, for the explanation.

woopwoop

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2016, 03:33:42 PM »
resulting in market distortions and such that make it risky to grow outside
Whether the market distorts its value or not, I think any drug that can get kids high is going to be risky to grow outside. Sorry about being a grump towards you earlier.

Dicey

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2016, 09:39:25 PM »
Reynaud's Syndrome?  Or just not acclimated to cold?

Nah, Reynaud's would be my sister. I don't turn funny colors.

I'm just a thin woman who's way happier with summer temperatures. Broken air conditioner in the DC area? I'll drink some ice water and be fine. A week in August wearing wool dresses every day while walking several miles and shooting archery? I'll drink some ice water and be fine.

She frequently wears a coat and hat inside despite the fact that we keep the house at 68 for her.
I would too! 68...fingers go numb just thinking about it. Brrr!

Ok, actually I've got my house at 70 and my fingers and toes are both numb right now. I'm wearing wool long underwear under my clothes and wool socks. I should go put my bathrobe on over my clothes and make a hot cup of tea to thaw my fingers.

You should seriously look into whether you have a medical issue, if you haven't already. That is not how most people work.

(Or you were joking.)

It's not how most men work, but remember, the standard temperature for in an office is 72 degrees, and all us women are freezing our buns off, wearing coats and scarves and hiding space heaters under our desks. We actually do run at a different temperature than men.

Also, I'm pretty sedentary. My mouse hand is always the first part of me to go numb at the computer, which I sit in front of for most of the day. If I was running around the house scrubbing the bathroom, changing the laundry, back up the stairs to check on dinner, clean the kitchen, etc etc, then I'd be comfortable at a temperature lower than 80. No, seriously, 80 is the temperature at which I take off my hoodie. I learned that when my AC was dead. I can't stand the feel of the air conditioner on my bare arms--instant goosebumps--so if I'm in a t-shirt in the summer I wear a hoodie. Mostly I just wear long sleeves now, though, as protection against both cold winter air and air conditioners. Spring and fall are only like 2 weeks long here, anyway.
OMG, maco, you are describing my life! I was always so cold, especially at corporate meetings in giant hotels and convention centers. I wore multiple layers of clothing year-round, starting with a bra specially selected for its magical power of not making it obvious that I was freezing...I even bought a retirement house in the Desert, because "When I'm old, I don't want to be cold." I'm here to tell you that magical relief is on its way (eventually) in the form of menopause. Yeah baby, love me some hot flashes! Woo-hoo! Bring on the heat. Love it. Yeah, sounds crazy but it's true. Nowadays, I'm almost never cold, which is a welcome relief after all those years of shivering. BTW, no medical condition ever uncovered, except being tall and thin. And I hate A/c blowing directly on me to this day...
BTW, when working at my desk in my home office, I always kept a blow dryer nearby to de-ice my fingers. Works great!

Cressida

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2016, 12:27:26 AM »
maco and Diane C, I'm exactly the same. I'll be wearing multiple layers and DH will be in shorts. Don't even get me started about the office - pisses me off.

Apples

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2016, 06:33:15 AM »
Reynaud's Syndrome?  Or just not acclimated to cold?

She frequently wears a coat and hat inside despite the fact that we keep the house at 68 for her.
I would too! 68...fingers go numb just thinking about it. Brrr!

Ok, actually I've got my house at 70 and my fingers and toes are both numb right now. I'm wearing wool long underwear under my clothes and wool socks. I should go put my bathrobe on over my clothes and make a hot cup of tea to thaw my fingers.

Could be the radiant cold coming in from the windows.  We keep our house at 67 because at 65 my fingers, toes, and nose are cold.  At 67 I am still dressed in full winter clothes.  We have a lot of windows and the thermostat is in the center of a room, so while we feel the effects from the windows it doesn't kick our heat on as quickly.  I also wear wool socks and long johns all winter, and at least two layers on top.  And I'm only 25, so this isn't something due to aging.  If I sit still at home, my fingers start to get very cold and a bit stiff.  Every 20 minutes I try to get up and go do something to keep my blood pumping to the ends of those digits.
We have modern double-glazed windows, and we have drapes too, so the windows shouldn't be giving off much cold (though I don't know about the insulation in the walls). The thermostat is in the dead center of  the house, but that's only 12ft from every wall! (I'm also in my 20s)

Me too.  double paned, one year old windows, with blinds.  But my goodness when it's 50 degrees outside the 67 inside temp feels fine, but when it's 20 degrees outside the 67 starts to feel chilly.  I think my thermostat is only 10 feet from the farthest wall haha.  When I sit near a window for 20 or 30 mins I can start to feel the cold creeping in off the window.  But it could just be you!

Making Cookies

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2016, 07:53:05 AM »

OMG, maco, you are describing my life! I was always so cold, especially at corporate meetings in giant hotels and convention centers. I wore multiple layers of clothing year-round, starting with a bra specially selected for its magical power of not making it obvious that I was freezing...I even bought a retirement house in the Desert, because "When I'm old, I don't want to be cold." I'm here to tell you that magical relief is on its way (eventually) in the form of menopause. Yeah baby, love me some hot flashes! Woo-hoo! Bring on the heat. Love it. Yeah, sounds crazy but it's true. Nowadays, I'm almost never cold, which is a welcome relief after all those years of shivering. BTW, no medical condition ever uncovered, except being tall and thin. And I hate A/c blowing directly on me to this day...
BTW, when working at my desk in my home office, I always kept a blow dryer nearby to de-ice my fingers. Works great!

I'm the exact opposite. Male, part Bigfoot, and some 50-60 temps are heaven. Am actually looking forward to that old age chill that my grandparents used to talk about.

teen persuasion

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2016, 07:19:11 PM »
Does the company provide distribution information? What's the variance?

To me, the more useful information is HOW MUCH more are they using than the middle, or even the top.  It could be a trivial amount or it could be a huge amount. But someone has to the at the bottom.

We just got a similar letter "Last 2 Months Neighbor Comparison"

They show 3 bars:
     you   471 kWh
     efficient neighbors (most efficient 20%)    1104 kWh
     all neighbors (approx 100 occupied, nearby homes of similar size)   1936 kwh

There was more info about how we used 76% less than neighbors, saving $1113 / year, and a graph of all 3 over the past year by month.  More hints on saving (power off your DVR, switch to LEDs, use laptop instead of desktop computers). 

Our rank was #3.  I really want to know how low #1 is - are we far apart, or just a tiny bit?

Apples

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Re: And you don't think this is a problem?
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2016, 07:49:51 AM »
Does the company provide distribution information? What's the variance?

To me, the more useful information is HOW MUCH more are they using than the middle, or even the top.  It could be a trivial amount or it could be a huge amount. But someone has to the at the bottom.

We just got a similar letter "Last 2 Months Neighbor Comparison"

They show 3 bars:
     you   471 kWh
     efficient neighbors (most efficient 20%)    1104 kWh
     all neighbors (approx 100 occupied, nearby homes of similar size)   1936 kwh

There was more info about how we used 76% less than neighbors, saving $1113 / year, and a graph of all 3 over the past year by month.  More hints on saving (power off your DVR, switch to LEDs, use laptop instead of desktop computers). 

Our rank was #3.  I really want to know how low #1 is - are we far apart, or just a tiny bit?

#1 might be an empty house the owner just heats to about 45 or 50 degrees to keep the pipes from bursting.  Since I know an owner who did that for a winter...  The electric company may not distinguish based on how full of people the houses are.  So don't drive yourself crazy trying to beat a neighbor that isn't actually there.

ETA:  I know they say occupied.  But we had a house that sat empty over the winter then was reoccupied in the spring.  I doubt the electric company ever marked it as "unoccupied".