Author Topic: American Girl doll  (Read 16912 times)

SugarMountain

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American Girl doll
« on: March 03, 2014, 12:21:10 PM »
One of my friends, who is also a coworker, posted a new one on FB, at least new to me.  He took his daughter to the local mall where they went out to lunch while the girl's American Girl doll was having its hair done!  That's right, people actually pay to have a doll get it's hair done.  I have no idea what this service costs, maybe $25?  I wonder if he thought about it as a $70 outing.  ~30 mile round trip,  $30 lunch, and $25 for the hair styling.  Of course this guy is the single income for the family, with two car payments, and is constantly on the broke side.

Elaine

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 12:24:49 PM »
I'll behead them for $10 a piece- miniature commemorative guillotine not included! What a deal!

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 12:42:07 PM »
Yikes! I sold off a USED American Girl doll that was given to me in like 1990... for sixty-five dollars! (With five outfits.) And that was giving the lady a discount over what I could have sold it for on eBay. Now the doll has a bike helmet and a bike and so on...

soccerluvof4

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »
No different than people that take there dogs to these specialty cleaning and styling places. Now I see the mobile ones and they even have the poop ladie who will come and pick the poo up in your yard. That shoud actually go on wall of shame , paying someone to pickup your dogs poo

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 03:04:23 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

SugarMountain

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 04:41:08 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Or doing the doll's hair herself?

lexie2000

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 05:35:29 PM »
No different than people that take there dogs to these specialty cleaning and styling places. Now I see the mobile ones and they even have the poop ladie who will come and pick the poo up in your yard. That shoud actually go on wall of shame , paying someone to pickup your dogs poo

LOL  When our rescue puppy started looking a little scruffy, I called Petco to ask how much it would cost to have him cut.  $45!!  Luckily, I had some hair scissors in the house and decided to go at it myself.  That first cut was kind of rough, but over the couple of years that I've been doing it, I've gotten pretty darn good. 

He has to be trimmed 5-6 times a year, but at least he doesn't shed.

GuitarStv

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 07:02:46 AM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Or doing the doll's hair herself?

He said useful.

Besides, mustachian children are always shaved bald ever few weeks.  This reduces costs associated with hair products, wasted time spent styling hair, and makes for easier identification in a crowd of kids.

MsSindy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 07:15:49 AM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Or doing the doll's hair herself?

He said useful.

Besides, mustachian children are always shaved bald ever few weeks.  This reduces costs associated with hair products, wasted time spent styling hair, and makes for easier identification in a crowd of kids.
[/quote

Oh, GuitarStv....you kill me!!  :)

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 02:31:02 PM »
I did suggest to my Wife that as I am now retired I should go back to shaving my head for free instead of paying $12 every 6 weeks..:)

That didn't go well..:)

Frank

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 11:31:22 AM »
I've had to fend off both grandmothers the past couple of Christmases from buying these for my daughters. The idea of handing them each a $100 doll turns my stomach. Especially since they already have a bunch of dolls they don't even play with anymore.

Add to that, we're not even American. What international marketing genius branded these things anyway?

As for haircuts, my kids are so mustachian, they cut their own hair. The results are a little uneven though . . .

RootofGood

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 11:37:31 AM »
My kids don't know American Dolls exist.  Eat that, advertisers.  We walked by the American Doll store on the Magnificent Mile in Chicago and I said to the girls "hey, you guys want to check out this doll store".  They were like "meh".  :)  I explained that they can get their dolls made up and their hair done (for a fee).  They were wide eyed with that WTF look.  Why would anyone do that? 

CommonCents

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 11:48:13 AM »
As a kid, styling Barbie's hair myself was part of the fun.

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 12:21:43 PM »
As a kid, styling Barbie's hair myself was part of the fun.

Pulling the hair out of my Sister's Barbies was my kind of fun....:)

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2014, 01:35:50 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

MKinVA

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 02:09:48 PM »
Actually, these dolls are the best of the bunch, if expensive. They each have a story related to the history of this country (learning), a little book that tells the story (reading), obviously from what people are saying here they retain a good bit of their value, and if you take their clothes off, you see that they are not the unrealistic skinny waist, big chested, long legged Barbie contributing to your daughter body dismorphia. They look like appropriately little girls with little square bodies.

My MIL got one for my daughter way back when and DD actually got into the history and read a couple of other historicals after that. Not a bad thing there.

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 02:42:35 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 03:01:31 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

I...don't even. Playing with dolls is not remotely about "washing diapers." It's about modeling human interactions. Kids learn through play, and dolls are one integral kind of play. Boys have dolls, too, they're just called "action figures." My sisters and I  and all our friends played with dolls. Babydolls were typically forgotten in the closet. Barbie & co had fantastical adventures--whether scenes from our favorite books or something entirely new. We built them furniture and hand-made clothes, and integrated all manner of non-doll-related toys into play, from random trinkets to Legos and K'Nex. None of us *ever* believed we were limited to a life of "washing diapers."

ginastarke

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 03:41:00 PM »
it actually exists. I had no idea :-O
I naively thought " getting its hair done"  was an expression for having the doll re-wigged, which my family has done for my mother's and grandmother's dolls. Punchline to this joke? There are special hotel packages since your traveling to have the spa day  for a doll, the doll gets its own bed. o_O

Teaching children a valuable skill?  How about repairing,customizing and  reselling toys like this? I've seen a lot of handmade AGD clothes/accessories on Etsy.

And about the dog grooming- there are some things like clipping  nails on a nervous dog, and the "butt glands " that my parents would just rather not handle. Can't say I blame them.

MicroRN

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 03:57:29 PM »
Dang! I just looked up selling prices for AG dolls and I'm seriously debating selling my Kirsten.  I adored her growing up, and have an insane number of outfits and accessories, but she's been tucked in a box for years.  She's discontinued now, and the body is autographed by the woman who wrote the original books.  AG went way downhill after Mattel bought them out.   

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2014, 07:07:45 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

I...don't even. Playing with dolls is not remotely about "washing diapers." It's about modeling human interactions. Kids learn through play, and dolls are one integral kind of play. Boys have dolls, too, they're just called "action figures." My sisters and I  and all our friends played with dolls. Babydolls were typically forgotten in the closet. Barbie & co had fantastical adventures--whether scenes from our favorite books or something entirely new. We built them furniture and hand-made clothes, and integrated all manner of non-doll-related toys into play, from random trinkets to Legos and K'Nex. None of us *ever* believed we were limited to a life of "washing diapers."

OK I'll take the toungue out of my cheek. I'm sure there is value in dolls just that child rearing is not my thing and I tend to think they reinforce stereotypes.. If your Daughter needs a math physics or engineering tutor when she gets to college send her my way.. and I'll teach her to change the oil as well...:)

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2014, 08:00:54 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

I...don't even. Playing with dolls is not remotely about "washing diapers." It's about modeling human interactions. Kids learn through play, and dolls are one integral kind of play. Boys have dolls, too, they're just called "action figures." My sisters and I  and all our friends played with dolls. Babydolls were typically forgotten in the closet. Barbie & co had fantastical adventures--whether scenes from our favorite books or something entirely new. We built them furniture and hand-made clothes, and integrated all manner of non-doll-related toys into play, from random trinkets to Legos and K'Nex. None of us *ever* believed we were limited to a life of "washing diapers."

OK I'll take the toungue out of my cheek. I'm sure there is value in dolls just that child rearing is not my thing and I tend to think they reinforce stereotypes.. If your Daughter needs a math physics or engineering tutor when she gets to college send her my way.. and I'll teach her to change the oil as well...:)

Thanks for the offer, I think I'll save my money and tutor her myself. You know, since I'll have my PhD in Aerospace Engineering by then and all. ;)

You know what they say about assumptions...

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2014, 08:30:06 PM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 02:04:59 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

I wouldn't. I forget the name of my son's Monster High doll, it's the one that's the daughter of a yeti. He's taken it to school every day for the past week or so.

GuitarStv

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 06:30:50 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

I'd actually argue that the little boy argument shows why dolls aren't significantly important for childhood development.  Stereotypically most boys don't play with dolls, and seem to turn out fine. . .

BPA

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2014, 07:48:40 AM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

I...don't even. Playing with dolls is not remotely about "washing diapers." It's about modeling human interactions. Kids learn through play, and dolls are one integral kind of play. Boys have dolls, too, they're just called "action figures." My sisters and I  and all our friends played with dolls. Babydolls were typically forgotten in the closet. Barbie & co had fantastical adventures--whether scenes from our favorite books or something entirely new. We built them furniture and hand-made clothes, and integrated all manner of non-doll-related toys into play, from random trinkets to Legos and K'Nex. None of us *ever* believed we were limited to a life of "washing diapers."

OK I'll take the toungue out of my cheek. I'm sure there is value in dolls just that child rearing is not my thing and I tend to think they reinforce stereotypes.. If your Daughter needs a math physics or engineering tutor when she gets to college send her my way.. and I'll teach her to change the oil as well...:)

I actually completely agreed with you, Frank.  Dolls are one thing.  Teaching your daughter to be high maintenance and raise high maintenance children was the lesson I thought this daughter would be learning.  Regarding FB, I cringe when I see all the mani/pedi visits 7 year olds go on with their moms who are struggling financially.  Because you need to be pampered in that way when you can't afford it.  Get pampered to relieve your stress.  Stress about money.  Repeat.

My son kicked and bit the doll I gave him when he was little.  I'm glad he doesn't behave like that in real life.  My daughter nurtured her dolls, and often becomes embroiled in teenage drama conflicts.  I love her, but she's 17 now and has been driving me a bit nuts for the last three years.


BPA

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2014, 07:51:32 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

But not an F150, Hummer, or SUV, right?

Not mustachian.

;)

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2014, 08:13:28 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

But not an F150, Hummer, or SUV, right?

Not mustachian.

;)

How about a train? We can probably all agree on trains :)

And of course every kid needs a bicycle!

BPA

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2014, 08:18:10 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

But not an F150, Hummer, or SUV, right?

Not mustachian.

;)

How about a train? We can probably all agree on trains :)

And of course every kid needs a bicycle!

I used to laugh maniacally when my son would call Percy of Thomas the Tank Engine fame "Pussy."

I have an adolescent male sense of humour.

brand new stash

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2014, 09:09:08 AM »
Every kid (boy or girl) should have a doll.  That doesn't mean that every kid should have a $110 doll.

We live close to an American girl store, and I have 6 year old daughters.  The overwhelming majority of their friends have American girl dolls and have taken them to lunch and bought extremely expensive accessories (a friend of theirs has a $300 balloon for her doll to go hot air ballooning).  My daughters, and my son, have dolls, but not those ones.  I've asked them several times if they want them, and to quote one of my daughters "Nope, its just another doll."   

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2014, 09:48:14 AM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

No problem.. Its something i have zero interest in. I'm much more interested in not putting young women in steriotypical boxes where they main value to society is seen in being chained to a sink washing diapers.

But thats just me...:)

Frank

I...don't even. Playing with dolls is not remotely about "washing diapers." It's about modeling human interactions. Kids learn through play, and dolls are one integral kind of play. Boys have dolls, too, they're just called "action figures." My sisters and I  and all our friends played with dolls. Babydolls were typically forgotten in the closet. Barbie & co had fantastical adventures--whether scenes from our favorite books or something entirely new. We built them furniture and hand-made clothes, and integrated all manner of non-doll-related toys into play, from random trinkets to Legos and K'Nex. None of us *ever* believed we were limited to a life of "washing diapers."

OK I'll take the toungue out of my cheek. I'm sure there is value in dolls just that child rearing is not my thing and I tend to think they reinforce stereotypes.. If your Daughter needs a math physics or engineering tutor when she gets to college send her my way.. and I'll teach her to change the oil as well...:)

Thanks for the offer, I think I'll save my money and tutor her myself. You know, since I'll have my PhD in Aerospace Engineering by then and all. ;)

You know what they say about assumptions...

You think I was making an assumption?.. Isn't that making an assumption?...:)

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2014, 10:07:17 AM »
I used to laugh maniacally when my son would call Percy of Thomas the Tank Engine fame "Pussy."

I have an adolescent male sense of humour.

I suspect you will enjoy these: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikespohr/hilariously-mispronounced-words-by-toddlers

You think I was making an assumption?.. Isn't that making an assumption?...:)

I read your very direct implication that I would be unable to tutor my [hypothetical] daughter/kid in "math[,] physics and engineering" (since you were so generously offering to help and all). Since you had no basis for that call, yes, that was an assumption. And that is a conclusion of a logical train of reasoning, and not a blind assumption with no basis.

Also I shared our little talk with several lady engineering friends and we had a good laugh. Thanks for that.

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2014, 10:28:00 AM »
I used to laugh maniacally when my son would call Percy of Thomas the Tank Engine fame "Pussy."

I have an adolescent male sense of humour.

I suspect you will enjoy these: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mikespohr/hilariously-mispronounced-words-by-toddlers

You think I was making an assumption?.. Isn't that making an assumption?...:)

I read your very direct implication that I would be unable to tutor my [hypothetical] daughter/kid in "math[,] physics and engineering" (since you were so generously offering to help and all). Since you had no basis for that call, yes, that was an assumption. And that is a conclusion of a logical train of reasoning, and not a blind assumption with no basis.

Also I shared our little talk with several lady engineering friends and we had a good laugh. Thanks for that.

Yes I can see how you got there but that was not in my line of thinking, in fact the thought makes me cringe cus its exactly opposite to who I am.. You see I am from the UK where the "miss World" and all its ghastly ilk have not been shown on TV since about 1972. We are (or at least my socio-economic group) very sensitive to anything that tells our young ladies they should fit into a typical 1950's housewife stereotype.

Dolls to me represent at least part of that stereotype.. I.e Girls play with dolls and boys with mechanical things. When i was at university in the early 80's only 3 out of about 100 of my class were female and I have always thought this to be a tragedy.. We as a nation were missing out on the different perspectives that female professionals could offer.

Now you have also joined the growing list of friends who have Phd's and I "only" have a mere Masters degree... dammit!...:)


Frank

GuitarStv

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2014, 11:22:23 AM »
You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

I'd actually argue that the little boy argument shows why dolls aren't significantly important for childhood development.  Stereotypically most boys don't play with dolls, and seem to turn out fine. . .

What are action figures, if not dolls?

I suspect they're not used to enact nurturing moments like combing of hair, lullabies, and tea time in most cases.  Mine tended to have grisly fireworks accidents and end their lives as dazed multiple amputees.

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2014, 11:26:07 AM »
Yes I can see how you got there but that was not in my line of thinking, in fact the thought makes me cringe cus its exactly opposite to who I am.. You see I am from the UK where the "miss World" and all its ghastly ilk have not been shown on TV since about 1972. We are (or at least my socio-economic group) very sensitive to anything that tells our young ladies they should fit into a typical 1950's housewife stereotype.

Dolls to me represent at least part of that stereotype.. I.e Girls play with dolls and boys with mechanical things. When i was at university in the early 80's only 3 out of about 100 of my class were female and I have always thought this to be a tragedy.. We as a nation were missing out on the different perspectives that female professionals could offer.

Now you have also joined the growing list of friends who have Phd's and I "only" have a mere Masters degree... dammit!...:)


Frank

Rest easier, I'm only 4 years into my degree so I have 1-2 more to go. Technically since I'm going straight to PhD, I don't even have a Masters at the moment. ;) But I have tutored math, physics, and engineering for my spending money. I intend to eventually teach engineering for a living. So I think you'll understand how your comment cut particularly deep. Or rather, caused me to rear up and say "Oh no he DIDN'T!"

I think you're suffering from a fundamental misunderstanding of feminist principles, and I think it's a fairly common one. Your approach, based on what you have said is something like "we must quash traditional femininity and empower the women to do the same things as men by raising our girls like our boys!" But really, feminism is about choice, about having the full range of choices. Yes, it's important to expose more girls to more 'masculine' pursuits like building and fixing, but that's only half the equation--boys  must also be raised more like girls. I'll refer to frugalparagon:

You wouldn't have a problem with a little boy playing with a doll, right? So why shouldn't a girl? I'm not saying it should be her ONLY toy, but I think all kids of all gender should have at least one doll and at least one truck.

Girls should have blocks, Legos, cars, trains, toolboxes, science experiment kits, telescopes, etc etc. But they should also still have dolls and playhouses.

Boys should also have blocks, Legos, cars, trains, toolboxes, etc etc. But they need dolls and stuffed animals and toy kitchens and vacuum cleaners no less than girls do. They should learn to cook, clean, sew, and hold a baby.

Like I said before, dolls are *not* just about learning mothering/caretaking behaviors, they are typically used more for acting things out (particularly when they aren't baby dolls). For make-believe. For pretend. A friend of mine pointed out that research has shown kids who don't get enough of that kind of imaginative, role-playing type of play don't learn to empathize as well as kids who do. They apparently have a higher likelihood of becoming psychopaths.

Analytical skills are great and I fully encourage learning of them by ALL kids. But we live in a world of people, and empathizing and working with them are also important. Arguably, more important. Even in tech fields, teamwork, creativity, and user-centered design methods all require empathizing and working with other people. Exactly the things that kids learn from playing with dolls (yes, also by playing with other kids, but that's not always an option, and it's different).

You know what really does bother me about dolls today? Most of them are pink, and frilly, and prissy. THAT we don't need. But what I've seen of AGD's, they are *less* prone to pinkification (they're getting there, unfortunately). The historical bent of them was really cool, and they focused on the dolls'/girls' actions, adventures, and problem solving rather than fashion sense. Like I said, this is changing, and the whole hair salon/cafe thing they have going on is silly. But the dolls are well-made and worth repairing (I know because my sister got one from a friend), so the price tag is a question of value/values. But basically, dolls themselves are not the problem. The types of dolls and the *upbringing* above all is what determines

If my interpretation of your response made you cringe, I think you should think about your response. Because two other ladies who read this conversation (up to last night), interpreted you the same way. What you effectively did, in our interpretation(s), was suggest that instead of being in the "1950's femininity" box, girls should be put in a new box where they *have* to essentially be tomboys. That's not the point. The point is options, possibilities, diversity. The point is that I can pursue an advanced degree in engineering while drinking fruity "girly" drinks. And while I prefer jeans and hoodies, some of my colleagues dress up and wear makeup daily. They have that choice. I also know women who want to focus on being mothers...one, after getting her PhD in Math. It's a valid choice, as long as it IS a choice.  When it comes down to it, skills and toys should just not be gendered...I can cook, clean, sew, hold/soothe a baby (I don't have one...yet...I practice on my friends'), probably change and wash a diaper, but also disassemble and unclog a drain, fix a vacuum cleaner, pitch a tent, start a fire, and open my own doors, thank you very much. I have no car skills because my dad wasn't handy and always took it to a mechanic. I'm hoping my bf will teach me when I/we get a car, though. :D

I apologize to everyone for the textwall.

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2014, 11:28:10 AM »
So, question. Why exactly is it superior to have girls know how to change oil instead of washing dishes? Frankly, I'm going to wash the dishes a lot more often in my life than I will change the oil on a car, as will everyone else. Both dish-washing and oil-changing are basic life-maintenance tasks. The fact that men have been more likely to change the oil doesn't give it some magical halo that makes it better, which is what you're implying.

And statistically, most girls are going to grow up and become mothers. Yours might not, but as a group, they will. What exactly is so harmful about spending some of their childhood modeling the behavior that will probably be a significant part of their adult lives? My mother has been the main breadwinner in my family for most of the marriage and she owns a successful business. She still counts raising us as her most significant life's work, which is understandable. Motherhood matters. So does fatherhood. So what is wrong with either boys or girls modeling it?

And why the hell are the contributions of women tragically wasted if we're not half your engineering class? It's not like all those women who weren't being engineers weren't contributing in other important and valuable ways to society. Mothers literally continue civilization. Pink-collar jobs where women cluster are a vital part of society and you and I both depend on. We women are adding value, even if it's not in the way you seem to have decided is acceptable for us.

I totally forgot about this but I also totally agree with it. Part of The Problem of Patriarchy (TM) is that women's contributions to society (i.e. work) have traditionally been undervalued. I have also heard an interesting argument that one of the reasons that college education is meaning less and less is the larger proportion of women getting degrees. Not sure I buy it but it's an interesting thought.

Serpentstooth you are cool. :)

CommonCents

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2014, 11:46:46 AM »
If my interpretation of your response made you cringe, I think you should think about your response. Because two other ladies who read this conversation (up to last night), interpreted you the same way.

Make it three.

Rural

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2014, 11:53:10 AM »
If my interpretation of your response made you cringe, I think you should think about your response. Because two other ladies who read this conversation (up to last night), interpreted you the same way.

Make it three.

 Can we quit piling on Frank, please? This hypothetical girl child will get plenty of doll-cuddling, baby-talking, and even diaper-changing rehearsal, whether she wants it or not. Our society still does that with little girls. She won't get the oil-change training, perhaps not even if she seeks it out as hard as she can, but definitely not unless she or someone else goes out of their way to make it happen.

So... Here's one lady who definitely did not interpret Frankh's response that way, but did think the responses to him were particularly uncalled-for.

Exflyboy

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2014, 12:00:18 PM »
Actually it is rather amusing to be beaten up for my (what i thought were) feminist views.. "wait a minute I thought I was on your side!"...:)

Frank

RootofGood

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2014, 12:02:43 PM »
I suspect they're not used to enact nurturing moments like combing of hair, lullabies, and tea time in most cases.  Mine tended to have grisly fireworks accidents and end their lives as dazed multiple amputees.

Now I know what to do with my older daughters' barbies and monster high dolls as they grow out of them.  My 2 year old son is going to have a blast one day.  Or should I say multiple blasts?

GuitarStv

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2014, 12:06:56 PM »
Barbies rock for blowing up since they're twice the size of GIJoes.  Attack of the 18 ft comsumers!

CommonCents

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2014, 12:09:04 PM »
If my interpretation of your response made you cringe, I think you should think about your response. Because two other ladies who read this conversation (up to last night), interpreted you the same way.

Make it three.

 Can we quit piling on Frank, please? This hypothetical girl child will get plenty of doll-cuddling, baby-talking, and even diaper-changing rehearsal, whether she wants it or not. Our society still does that with little girls. She won't get the oil-change training, perhaps not even if she seeks it out as hard as she can, but definitely not unless she or someone else goes out of their way to make it happen.

So... Here's one lady who definitely did not interpret Frankh's response that way, but did think the responses to him were particularly uncalled-for.

Wozers.  I don't see where you get from me agreeing with a few others that his comments could, and were, interpreted in a different way than (perhaps?) how he meant to be piling on and uncalled-for.

Rural

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2014, 12:18:05 PM »
If my interpretation of your response made you cringe, I think you should think about your response. Because two other ladies who read this conversation (up to last night), interpreted you the same way.

Make it three.

 Can we quit piling on Frank, please? This hypothetical girl child will get plenty of doll-cuddling, baby-talking, and even diaper-changing rehearsal, whether she wants it or not. Our society still does that with little girls. She won't get the oil-change training, perhaps not even if she seeks it out as hard as she can, but definitely not unless she or someone else goes out of their way to make it happen.

So... Here's one lady who definitely did not interpret Frankh's response that way, but did think the responses to him were particularly uncalled-for.

Wozers.  I don't see where you get from me agreeing with a few others that his comments could, and were, interpreted in a different way than (perhaps?) how he meant to be piling on and uncalled-for.

Sorry. The tone in a couple of the earlier comments has been bugging me for a while, but that wasn't you, and I shouldn't imply that it was, didn't mean to in fact. Technically, adding another is piling on, but I don't know that it was offensive, and I didn't mean to say that it was in your particular case.

I'd just been avoiding commenting for a while, and I should've been more careful about who I replied to when I finally did.

k8henderson

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2014, 12:44:01 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Because clearly dolls teach children nothing. Congratulations on not knowing about child development.

Frank's adopted daughter here. His idea of model parrenting is hours and hours and HOURS coaching calculus and for fun a welding lesson.

I can promise you my now 8mo daughter will know how to change her oil and do calculus. this was precious and valuable time spent. What better parenting to model is there


k8henderson

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2014, 12:45:12 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Or doing the doll's hair herself?

or take her to the library for a BOOK on how to do her dolls hair herself

k8henderson

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2014, 12:53:32 PM »
There is something truely creepy about this whole American Doll thing..

How about teaching your Daughter something useful.. like changing the oil in the car instead?...:)

Frank

Or doing the doll's hair herself?

He said useful.

Besides, mustachian children are always shaved bald ever few weeks.  This reduces costs associated with hair products, wasted time spent styling hair, and makes for easier identification in a crowd of kids.

Frank's Mustachian children get a trip to harbor freight once a year for supplied to build all the things they need for the school year. in fact in the late summer you can usually find then knocking on doors for bits of unwanted wax and food coloring to make the crayons required.

you think thats sad but they'd be the most perfectly engineered "hotrod" of crayons you've ever seen.

and then they'd get to color... after they changed the oil in the car of course.

k8henderson

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2014, 01:03:37 PM »
Actually it is rather amusing to be beaten up for my (what i thought were) feminist views.. "wait a minute I thought I was on your side!"...:)

Frank

feminism = man hating. you'll never be right lol

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2014, 01:04:57 PM »
Sorry. The tone in a couple of the earlier comments has been bugging me for a while, but that wasn't you, and I shouldn't imply that it was, didn't mean to in fact. Technically, adding another is piling on, but I don't know that it was offensive, and I didn't mean to say that it was in your particular case.

I'd just been avoiding commenting for a while, and I should've been more careful about who I replied to when I finally did.

Not sure if you meant me, but I thought this conversation was pretty civil as far as the internet goes. No one was called a Nazi or even an idiot. There were smiley faces.

I've finished saying my part and reconsidered my opinion of him, seems like a decent guy. Hopefully takes some of what he read from all of us to heart about how to stand up for women, but if not, there isn't much we can do.

Rural

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2014, 01:31:11 PM »
Sorry. The tone in a couple of the earlier comments has been bugging me for a while, but that wasn't you, and I shouldn't imply that it was, didn't mean to in fact. Technically, adding another is piling on, but I don't know that it was offensive, and I didn't mean to say that it was in your particular case.

I'd just been avoiding commenting for a while, and I should've been more careful about who I replied to when I finally did.

Not sure if you meant me, but I thought this conversation was pretty civil as far as the internet goes. No one was called a Nazi or even an idiot. There were smiley faces.

I've finished saying my part and reconsidered my opinion of him, seems like a decent guy. Hopefully takes some of what he read from all of us to heart about how to stand up for women, but if not, there isn't much we can do.

It was pretty civil, you're right, which is why I'd been holding off saying anything. But it didn't make any sense to me at all, not because there's no value in child-rearing play, but because that's definitely going to happen to a modern American girl unless she fights it tooth and nail. I know there are issues with traditional women's work -- you can dig back and find some of my comments on directing a preschool if you're interested. I just didn't understand  or agree with those comments in that context.

Peace?

galliver

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Re: American Girl doll
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2014, 01:38:25 PM »