Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3492935 times)

AMandM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1677
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7050 on: January 01, 2024, 03:14:38 PM »
They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.

IRL I only know one person who operates under that morality system who doesn't also feel they deserve more money than they have.

RWD

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6595
  • Location: Arizona
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7051 on: January 01, 2024, 03:19:59 PM »
Zamboni, that is an excellent post!  I really enjoyed it.

I had no idea that people pay to play video games, aside from the purchase of a console, cartridge or some sort of software.  So glad that this has never been a thing that DH or I were even remotely interested in.

Gacha games are some of the worst offenders...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4142
  • Location: WDC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7052 on: January 01, 2024, 03:28:31 PM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Log

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 670
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7053 on: January 01, 2024, 03:36:46 PM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Yes, one brother is a dogmatic self-proclaimed communist. The other brother has a very confused and self-contradictory political philosophy, but has very strong convictions that his proposed solutions would totally solve all the problems. Both are very still very caught up in idealistic utopian thinking.

To quote from an introduction by the translators of an edition of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, "...the need to justify one's standing in life—as privileged or dispossessed—is among the most basic psychological requirements of the human situation."

EchoStache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 793
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7054 on: January 01, 2024, 04:03:58 PM »
I have also observed relatives using "frugal" to mean "bought something for cheaper than I otherwise might have" rather than "tried not to buy something unless necessary."

On a different scale than home buying, but still.

Whatever you do, don't read the thread "what frugal thing did you do today" on the Boglehead forums.  Lots of posts about eating out for lunch or dinner and getting 10% off as their frugal accomplishment. 

eyesonthehorizon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Location: Texas
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7055 on: January 01, 2024, 10:25:23 PM »
Zamboni, that is an excellent post!  I really enjoyed it.

I had no idea that people pay to play video games, aside from the purchase of a console, cartridge or some sort of software.  So glad that this has never been a thing that DH or I were even remotely interested in.
The easy way around this is not to play online. The games on mobile devices led the charge on this predatory model, but some makers of console games decided to copy it. It makes money for shareholders, & it isn’t illegal yet….

OTOH consoles are basically small loss leaders & cartridge/ disc games (or games downloaded, but played offline) are often hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment for $50-80 at full price (sales are common.) Even if you bought a top of the line new console & only played one game thoroughly on it before you stopped using it (nobody really does this) you could be looking at $1/ hour for entertainment.

I play very little compared to when I was in school or single with masses of free time but I’m fairly sure my personal cost per hour on my last console was under sixty cents across just a handful of games, discounting totally its value as a media center for movies & music, as well as the thousands (at least four) of additional hours of gaming put in by my partner (which would put the cost down around ten cents per hour.) I wasn’t even buying used because I wanted to support good art, but used games are cheap after a year or three.

Any artistic medium is going to be mostly crap, but if you only seek out the best of the best, the experiences - writing, acting, visual artwork, musical scores, mechanics of ludic structure - outdo their cinematic counterparts. It’s harder to make a coherent narrative & cohesive thematic statement out of something the audience can interact with, but the best of them really do.

Compare that to a 2-3 hour new release movie - to own a copy will cost a lot more than $0.20-3.00, & in truth the total hours of professional labor that go into making one are often less than big AAA games now.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17573
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7056 on: January 02, 2024, 05:09:32 AM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Yes, one brother is a dogmatic self-proclaimed communist. The other brother has a very confused and self-contradictory political philosophy, but has very strong convictions that his proposed solutions would totally solve all the problems. Both are very still very caught up in idealistic utopian thinking.

To quote from an introduction by the translators of an edition of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, "...the need to justify one's standing in life—as privileged or dispossessed—is among the most basic psychological requirements of the human situation."

I call this "why can't they just...?" logic, where someone demonstrates that they have no understanding of complex systems by assuming that they have solutions that obviously no one in charge of these systems has ever thought of.

Solutions are usually really obvious when you don't understand complex problems.

Greystache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 594
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7057 on: January 02, 2024, 07:57:03 AM »
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

H. L. Mencken

Log

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 670
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7058 on: January 02, 2024, 09:40:26 AM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Yes, one brother is a dogmatic self-proclaimed communist. The other brother has a very confused and self-contradictory political philosophy, but has very strong convictions that his proposed solutions would totally solve all the problems. Both are very still very caught up in idealistic utopian thinking.

To quote from an introduction by the translators of an edition of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, "...the need to justify one's standing in life—as privileged or dispossessed—is among the most basic psychological requirements of the human situation."

I call this "why can't they just...?" logic, where someone demonstrates that they have no understanding of complex systems by assuming that they have solutions that obviously no one in charge of these systems has ever thought of.

Solutions are usually really obvious when you don't understand complex problems.

Hahaha, that's exactly it. He also talked multiple times about how he doesn't read anymore. But at least he saw a TikTok about the problem.

roomtempmayo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7059 on: January 02, 2024, 09:52:33 AM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Yes, one brother is a dogmatic self-proclaimed communist. The other brother has a very confused and self-contradictory political philosophy, but has very strong convictions that his proposed solutions would totally solve all the problems. Both are very still very caught up in idealistic utopian thinking.

To quote from an introduction by the translators of an edition of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, "...the need to justify one's standing in life—as privileged or dispossessed—is among the most basic psychological requirements of the human situation."

Yeah, people usually read Weber as an exploration of religion, rather than the psychology of justifying social arrangements where he's more insightful.

The popular version that sticks in my head is that, "everyone is the hero of their own story."  It doesn't matter how internally conflicted someone might be, they'll figure out a way to imagine themself as righteous/hard working/deserving.  The small government libertarian coal miner in West Virginia whose mine closes will create a mental carveout for claiming SSDI for a bad back.  A crypto billionaire who publicly espoused effective altruism when he was poor will find a good reason to buy a mansion in Bermuda when he's rich. 

And nobody's business model or lifestyle keeps them up at night.  I suspect the human traffickers at the southern border think they're doing a service to humanity, or at least just meeting a market demand.  And all the lefties who decamped Brooklyn for the Hudson Valley during the pandemic aren't fretting the carbon emissions of their new SFH and pair of four wheel drive vehicles in the driveway.

Most of humanity spends adulthood bumbling toward physical comfort and then justifying the outcomes with convenient principles after the fact.

Log

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 670
  • Location: San Francisco
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7060 on: January 02, 2024, 12:35:03 PM »

They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.


Sometimes morality systems exist for convenience.  An old friend of mine, who was a communist in his younger days in his home country told me:  "when you're poor, everyone is a communist".

Yes, one brother is a dogmatic self-proclaimed communist. The other brother has a very confused and self-contradictory political philosophy, but has very strong convictions that his proposed solutions would totally solve all the problems. Both are very still very caught up in idealistic utopian thinking.

To quote from an introduction by the translators of an edition of The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, "...the need to justify one's standing in life—as privileged or dispossessed—is among the most basic psychological requirements of the human situation."

Yeah, people usually read Weber as an exploration of religion, rather than the psychology of justifying social arrangements where he's more insightful.

The popular version that sticks in my head is that, "everyone is the hero of their own story."  It doesn't matter how internally conflicted someone might be, they'll figure out a way to imagine themself as righteous/hard working/deserving.  The small government libertarian coal miner in West Virginia whose mine closes will create a mental carveout for claiming SSDI for a bad back.  A crypto billionaire who publicly espoused effective altruism when he was poor will find a good reason to buy a mansion in Bermuda when he's rich. 

And nobody's business model or lifestyle keeps them up at night.  I suspect the human traffickers at the southern border think they're doing a service to humanity, or at least just meeting a market demand.  And all the lefties who decamped Brooklyn for the Hudson Valley during the pandemic aren't fretting the carbon emissions of their new SFH and pair of four wheel drive vehicles in the driveway.

Most of humanity spends adulthood bumbling toward physical comfort and then justifying the outcomes with convenient principles after the fact.

I'll confess I ended up returning the book to the library without reading it, but I definitely appreciated the introduction. The translators were very forthcoming that while the book is influential in the field of sociology, it's just full of wild speculation that experts in every other relevant field say is nonsense. So yeah, seems to check out that the true insights of the book are somewhat adjacent to the rather questionable thesis.

I can forgive the self-justification, but where it really gets me is when it goes to "and the people who don't see the world through my (rationalized) moral stances are evil!" I tried to explain to my roommate (millennial with social justice politics spoon-fed straight from Instagram) that conservatives genuinely believe their policy prescriptions are good for society, and do not conceive of themselves as advocating for bad policy for the sake of evil. I don't think she got it. They're the bad guys, full stop, no nuance or empathy for other perspectives allowed. Sometimes I think we're doomed.

ducky19

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 765
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7061 on: January 03, 2024, 10:39:17 AM »
Zamboni, that is an excellent post!  I really enjoyed it.

I had no idea that people pay to play video games, aside from the purchase of a console, cartridge or some sort of software.  So glad that this has never been a thing that DH or I were even remotely interested in.
The easy way around this is not to play online. The games on mobile devices led the charge on this predatory model, but some makers of console games decided to copy it. It makes money for shareholders, & it isn’t illegal yet….

OTOH consoles are basically small loss leaders & cartridge/ disc games (or games downloaded, but played offline) are often hundreds or thousands of hours of entertainment for $50-80 at full price (sales are common.) Even if you bought a top of the line new console & only played one game thoroughly on it before you stopped using it (nobody really does this) you could be looking at $1/ hour for entertainment.

I play very little compared to when I was in school or single with masses of free time but I’m fairly sure my personal cost per hour on my last console was under sixty cents across just a handful of games, discounting totally its value as a media center for movies & music, as well as the thousands (at least four) of additional hours of gaming put in by my partner (which would put the cost down around ten cents per hour.) I wasn’t even buying used because I wanted to support good art, but used games are cheap after a year or three.

Any artistic medium is going to be mostly crap, but if you only seek out the best of the best, the experiences - writing, acting, visual artwork, musical scores, mechanics of ludic structure - outdo their cinematic counterparts. It’s harder to make a coherent narrative & cohesive thematic statement out of something the audience can interact with, but the best of them really do.

Compare that to a 2-3 hour new release movie - to own a copy will cost a lot more than $0.20-3.00, & in truth the total hours of professional labor that go into making one are often less than big AAA games now.

I play two games on the regular, Forge of Empires and Minecraft. FoE is on mobile and there are ENDLESS opportunities to spend money on things. I made the commitment when I started playing that I would never spend money on it, and I've stuck to that. I know plenty of people who do (and don't judge them for it), but it's not for me. Minecraft was a gift from my son a couple of years ago. I believe he spent around $35 on it. I have spent countless hours of enjoyment over the past two years building my world. I'm sure if you looked at the cost per hour, it would be pennies. Point being, gaming doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg if you make that decision and/or choose games you'll enjoy playing for a long time.

BC_Goldman

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7062 on: January 04, 2024, 07:20:15 AM »
I play two games on the regular, Forge of Empires and Minecraft. FoE is on mobile and there are ENDLESS opportunities to spend money on things. I made the commitment when I started playing that I would never spend money on it, and I've stuck to that. I know plenty of people who do (and don't judge them for it), but it's not for me. Minecraft was a gift from my son a couple of years ago. I believe he spent around $35 on it. I have spent countless hours of enjoyment over the past two years building my world. I'm sure if you looked at the cost per hour, it would be pennies. Point being, gaming doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg if you make that decision and/or choose games you'll enjoy playing for a long time.

Semi-similar with me. Minecraft and a game called Kingdom of Loathing which I've been playing for something like 17 years. That one I do donate to but I have spare money and haven't minded doing so. I've gotten more involved in item/meat farming in the last few months so I'm building up in-game investments that will end up decreasing my donations.

Minecraft has been my cheapest source of entertainment by far. I easily have thousands of hours played for a cost of about $30. Playing modded Minecraft opens up up a limitless number of new experiences. I'm currently playing the Vault Hunters mod pack on skyblock mode.

pasadenafr

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Upper Left Corner, USA
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7063 on: January 04, 2024, 04:04:32 PM »
Zamboni, that is an excellent post!  I really enjoyed it.

I had no idea that people pay to play video games, aside from the purchase of a console, cartridge or some sort of software.  So glad that this has never been a thing that DH or I were even remotely interested in.
The easy way around this is not to play online. The games on mobile devices led the charge on this predatory model, but some makers of console games decided to copy it. It makes money for shareholders, & it isn’t illegal yet….

I only ever play single-player and co-op PC games. I hate the modern systems where they nickel-and-dime you for everything and force you to pay for additional stuff. I have no problem buying a game, or even paying some sort of subscription for games like WOW, but the micro-transaction cost model just gets me.

That, plus the fact that most apps these days are subscription-based has really saved me money over the years lol. I only subscribe to things I really need or love and use often. I also find that most often, the pricing is outrageous or based on a ton of fluff that I don't care about, and/or that the supposed ongoing development and improvements are lacking compared to what I'm paying.

Right now I'm having a blast with Baldur's Gate 3, which I paid $70 for and is providing me with endless hours of amazing gaming with zero additional cost. I would happily buy it again for twice the price.

To stay on topic, I finally went over my sister's subscriptions with her a few months ago when she was trying to trim her budget. She was spending several hundred $ on stuff she either didn't need or didn't use anymore. The remainder was trimmed by deciding if her use of it was worth the actual price. I had been having telling her to do that for years and she never cared enough to do it, until she bought a house with private loans to be repaid over a few years.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2024, 07:47:58 PM by pasadenafr »

iluvzbeach

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1587
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7064 on: January 04, 2024, 07:46:31 PM »
Speaking of subscriptions, I was listening to one of Ramit Sethi’s podcast interviews recently & the couple he was interviewing had something like $900/month in subscription costs. How is that even possible? I was shocked!

Tass

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Crossing some mountains
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7065 on: January 07, 2024, 07:22:46 PM »
This doesn't really belong on the wall of shame and comedy, but I was paralyzed in conversation today when my SIL excitedly shared that she and my brother saved 17% of their (single) income in 2023. They are 24 and 25 and just had their first wedding anniversary.

That's honestly great, AND it's a topic I'm interested in, but there was no way for me to contribute without one-upping her!

(In the same conversation she told me it was terrible for my finances that we visit the grocery store probably 4x per week. It's a short detour from our morning walk in the park, so we regularly buy produce to eat the same day.)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2024, 07:26:34 PM by Tass »

NorthernIkigai

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
  • Connoisseur of Leisure
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7066 on: January 08, 2024, 04:06:23 AM »
This doesn't really belong on the wall of shame and comedy, but I was paralyzed in conversation today when my SIL excitedly shared that she and my brother saved 17% of their (single) income in 2023. They are 24 and 25 and just had their first wedding anniversary.

That's honestly great, AND it's a topic I'm interested in, but there was no way for me to contribute without one-upping her!

(In the same conversation she told me it was terrible for my finances that we visit the grocery store probably 4x per week. It's a short detour from our morning walk in the park, so we regularly buy produce to eat the same day.)

It sounds like she's well on her way to "getting it". That's a great savings rate for their age! (Obviously, I have no clue about their personal circumstances, but it's a very good beginning, and shows they both care and keep track, which are both so important.)

Maybe the thing she still has to learn is that everyone has different needs and priorities, and for example that not everyone buys more in the grocery store if they shop more often. She might do, and you might not. Lots of people here spend money on stuff I wouldn't ever bother with, and vice versa. In the end it doesn't matter where the money's spent (or not spent).

You can contribute with a vague "That's great! We also tend to save a lot", and then if necessary claim you haven't done your exact calculations for 2023 yet... And just say something like "we stick to a list and don't buy more just because we go more often" or whatever is true and you're comfortable sharing with her, to get her to not have Opinions about your grocery habits.

zolotiyeruki

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5622
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7067 on: January 08, 2024, 05:16:05 AM »
This doesn't really belong on the wall of shame and comedy, but I was paralyzed in conversation today when my SIL excitedly shared that she and my brother saved 17% of their (single) income in 2023. They are 24 and 25 and just had their first wedding anniversary.

That's honestly great, AND it's a topic I'm interested in, but there was no way for me to contribute without one-upping her!
I think the key here is to not make it about yourself, but rather validate and ask about more details.  "That's a great savings rate for your age!  Has it been hard?  What has helped you achieve that?  Is that your goal/did you exceed it?  Do you aspire to retire early?" etc

Tass

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Crossing some mountains
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7068 on: January 08, 2024, 07:34:44 AM »
This doesn't really belong on the wall of shame and comedy, but I was paralyzed in conversation today when my SIL excitedly shared that she and my brother saved 17% of their (single) income in 2023. They are 24 and 25 and just had their first wedding anniversary.

That's honestly great, AND it's a topic I'm interested in, but there was no way for me to contribute without one-upping her!
I think the key here is to not make it about yourself, but rather validate and ask about more details.  "That's a great savings rate for your age!  Has it been hard?  What has helped you achieve that?  Is that your goal/did you exceed it?  Do you aspire to retire early?" etc

I think you're right about this approach. I only got as far as knowing that one-upping with our savings rate was the WRONG approach, and my brain screeched to a halt unable to think of something different to say.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20780
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7069 on: January 08, 2024, 08:03:30 AM »

(In the same conversation she told me it was terrible for my finances that we visit the grocery store probably 4x per week. It's a short detour from our morning walk in the park, so we regularly buy produce to eat the same day.)

It's always hard to think of replies in the moment, especially when it feels like a judgment.

If it comes up again you could just say you shop European style or small town style, or just like being able to get really fresh produce that you can eat in a day or 2.  Or just that since it is close and you are walking, it works out better to do several small shops that you can easily carry, rather than one big shop that would need a car to bring everything home.

I can see where she is coming from though, it is so easy to impulse shop.  When I pick up a few things at Costco, anyone else in line with a few things looks at me, and I look back at them, and we both smirk.

clarkfan1979

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3357
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pueblo West, CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7070 on: January 16, 2024, 11:27:00 AM »
I don't expect a complete 180 degree change but after 7 years of conspiracy theory investments, my family member is finally making a back-up plan just in case the get rich quick scheme doesn't happen. During the last 7 years, it was 100% going to happen. Now, it might happen in the distant future, but we might need to do some other things to buy us some additional time.

I think their car broke down and they didn't have the money to fix it without selling Iraqi Dinar or physical silver bars at a loss. I want everyone to live their best life, but these conspiracy theory investments were shoved down my throat for the past 5 years. The family member finally backed off during the last two years. Now they are finally realizing that they need to make a change to their current path because it's not working for them.

 

 




glacio09

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 66
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7071 on: January 16, 2024, 12:10:58 PM »

(In the same conversation she told me it was terrible for my finances that we visit the grocery store probably 4x per week. It's a short detour from our morning walk in the park, so we regularly buy produce to eat the same day.)

It's always hard to think of replies in the moment, especially when it feels like a judgment.

If it comes up again you could just say you shop European style or small town style, or just like being able to get really fresh produce that you can eat in a day or 2.  Or just that since it is close and you are walking, it works out better to do several small shops that you can easily carry, rather than one big shop that would need a car to bring everything home.

I can see where she is coming from though, it is so easy to impulse shop.  When I pick up a few things at Costco, anyone else in line with a few things looks at me, and I look back at them, and we both smirk.
I"m trying to change my habits to match that. I have Whole Foods a ten minute walk from my house, but it hurts to buy things from there because it's so expensive. Instead I've been doing week shopping trips at cheaper places, but I don't always know when I'm going to be cooking so the fresh veggies go bad. It's creating a really bad spiral of eating out because it's 9 at night and I don't know if things are ok at home. The plan for the new year is to stop at Whole Foods right before I cook. We'll see how it goes.

Tass

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Crossing some mountains
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7072 on: January 16, 2024, 12:41:20 PM »
If it comes up again you could just say you shop European style or small town style, or just like being able to get really fresh produce that you can eat in a day or 2.  Or just that since it is close and you are walking, it works out better to do several small shops that you can easily carry, rather than one big shop that would need a car to bring everything home.

I can see where she is coming from though, it is so easy to impulse shop.  When I pick up a few things at Costco, anyone else in line with a few things looks at me, and I look back at them, and we both smirk.
I"m trying to change my habits to match that. I have Whole Foods a ten minute walk from my house, but it hurts to buy things from there because it's so expensive. Instead I've been doing week shopping trips at cheaper places, but I don't always know when I'm going to be cooking so the fresh veggies go bad. It's creating a really bad spiral of eating out because it's 9 at night and I don't know if things are ok at home. The plan for the new year is to stop at Whole Foods right before I cook. We'll see how it goes.

I specifically don't have a Costco membership because having to drive there, requiring more gas and forethought and resulting in less exercise and sunlight, is not worth swapping for my regular grocery walk, even if it would save money. My nearby store is a Safeway, not a Whole Foods, so the calculation may be different for you. Perhaps you could bulk buy non-perishables elsewhere but buy the fresh produce the day you plan to use it?

And don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! For me, that's remembering that packaged freezer meals are expensive compared to scratch cooking, but not compared to restaurant food. If you're replacing regular takeout meals, groceries at WF are probably still coming out ahead.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17573
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7073 on: January 16, 2024, 06:36:43 PM »
I don't expect a complete 180 degree change but after 7 years of conspiracy theory investments, my family member is finally making a back-up plan just in case the get rich quick scheme doesn't happen. During the last 7 years, it was 100% going to happen. Now, it might happen in the distant future, but we might need to do some other things to buy us some additional time.

I think their car broke down and they didn't have the money to fix it without selling Iraqi Dinar or physical silver bars at a loss. I want everyone to live their best life, but these conspiracy theory investments were shoved down my throat for the past 5 years. The family member finally backed off during the last two years. Now they are finally realizing that they need to make a change to their current path because it's not working for them.

Wow that's progress!

My family member wouldn't even sell some of his ~30K of silver coins to pay off his ~8K Visa bill that was going to go to collections and ruin his credit.

Agatha Thrifty

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Location: West of the Rockies
  • 33x expenses stached
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7074 on: January 16, 2024, 07:52:09 PM »
I don't expect a complete 180 degree change but after 7 years of conspiracy theory investments, my family member is finally making a back-up plan just in case the get rich quick scheme doesn't happen

If it takes 7+ years, that seems more like a regular get-rich-slowly scheme.  I mean, assuming it worked.
70% of my 'stache is from contributions/gains from the last 7 years.

clarkfan1979

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3357
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pueblo West, CO
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7075 on: January 17, 2024, 10:03:56 AM »
I don't expect a complete 180 degree change but after 7 years of conspiracy theory investments, my family member is finally making a back-up plan just in case the get rich quick scheme doesn't happen

If it takes 7+ years, that seems more like a regular get-rich-slowly scheme.  I mean, assuming it worked.
70% of my 'stache is from contributions/gains from the last 7 years.

Yes, I agree that after 7 years, it is no longer a get rich quick scheme. However, for the past 7 years, the Iraqi Dinar and/or silver bars are going to increase by 100X in about 2-3 months. Every 2-3 months there is another story on why it didn't happen, but will definitely happen in another 2-3 months.
 

Dave1442397

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
  • Location: NJ
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7076 on: January 17, 2024, 12:45:10 PM »
I don't expect a complete 180 degree change but after 7 years of conspiracy theory investments, my family member is finally making a back-up plan just in case the get rich quick scheme doesn't happen

If it takes 7+ years, that seems more like a regular get-rich-slowly scheme.  I mean, assuming it worked.
70% of my 'stache is from contributions/gains from the last 7 years.

Yes, I agree that after 7 years, it is no longer a get rich quick scheme. However, for the past 7 years, the Iraqi Dinar and/or silver bars are going to increase by 100X in about 2-3 months. Every 2-3 months there is another story on why it didn't happen, but will definitely happen in another 2-3 months.

Haven't they ever heard of the Hunt brothers? 
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/09/silver-thursday-hunt-brothers.asp

Reynold

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7077 on: January 30, 2024, 02:57:11 PM »
They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.

IRL I only know one person who operates under that morality system who doesn't also feel they deserve more money than they have.

While its friends, not relatives, I do know one couple who feels having wealth is bad but don't feel they deserve more money.  They were surprised to learn that their income was low enough for Medicaid when they got old enough to qualify for Medicare.  They aren't using it, because "There must be someone who needs it more."  We worry about them, they have no savings after working hard their whole lives just because they earned so little, and a lot of their money and time goes to the animal rescue/rehab they run. 

eyesonthehorizon

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
  • Location: Texas
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #7078 on: January 31, 2024, 09:58:47 AM »
They're definitely not crypto bros, just operating under a morality system where having wealth at all is bad and evil. I think that way of thinking is much more common than many of us realize.

IRL I only know one person who operates under that morality system who doesn't also feel they deserve more money than they have.

While its friends, not relatives, I do know one couple who feels having wealth is bad but don't feel they deserve more money.  They were surprised to learn that their income was low enough for Medicaid when they got old enough to qualify for Medicare.  They aren't using it, because "There must be someone who needs it more."  We worry about them, they have no savings after working hard their whole lives just because they earned so little, and a lot of their money and time goes to the animal rescue/rehab they run.
Do they feel having wealth is bad because it is not equally distributed? You may be able to appeal to their sense of fairness by reminding them that in this case they could choose to participate in one of the last surviving public programs from the more equal (you may phrase that as "socialized" depending on their political views) decades of the last century, funded by payroll tax. If those programs aren't popular, they get killed off, but the existence of them allows for a governmental bargaining chip to negotiate rebates from private pharmaceutical companies to make medications used by participants in medicare more affordable, like what recently happened with the Inflation Reduction act - the monthly out-of-pocket cost for insulin is being capped at $35, & some other drugs must offer rebates if their prices grow faster than inflation. So arguably, it's the right thing for them to do for other people. That might get them moving.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!